'Baba' and 'Sheep'

Lakers would have won their first round series if not for Donaghy.

"All I'm saying is that Kobe is just as good as Jordan was, the only difference is their circumstances. Kobe could have done everything Jordan did given the same circumstances." --kobe apologist

circumstances being that MJ is a man and kobe is a little girl?

"Baba" and "Sheep"

I'm sure that this is Kobe's fault, somehow.

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ATTENTION BLOGGERS : TODAY IS DEDICATED TO JOREMA
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PAST HONOREES: MIKE TENIENTE, EDWIN GUECO, KLBEAST, GENERIC_ONE, A.K. J.J. FAITH,
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Have you ever sat down to look at a movie and after about a minute you stop and say I have no idea what I just saw.
Or have you sat down to watch a movie and after a minute say yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. Well with Jorema
you can get both reactions at the same time after reading one of his/her posts. ( As an aside we really need to find
some way to differentiate if we are blogging with male or females on the Blog. I mean names like Edwin Gueco and
Laker Tom you know are male and names like Laker Gurl and Faith you know are female but other than that we are
just taking a leap in the dark. I am by the way a male which you should all know by my fictitious tale of my
Zombie/Vampire former girl friend.) Sorry Jorema for interrupting this dedication to your day. Jorema may I be so
bold to state is the poet laureate of the Blog with all apologies to G1. Some of Jorema’s lines can leave you amused,
bemused, confused all at the same time, but they always make you come back for more. You can be arguing with
Jorema about a post and go back and reread it and have to go back and say you know Jorema you’re right. And for
all you HATERS out there Jorema is no HEATER!! Most of you may not admit it ANDREW Z, BEAST, MAMBA24/10 but
you might learn a thing or two by reading Jorema’s post. I have and I admit it. I Know, I Know, I could learn a hell of
a lot by reading anybody’ post. Jorema is one of the most dedicated Laker fans around and yet I still can’t say for
sure just what Jorema’s stand on KOBE is. At times Jorema is KOBE’S most vocal supporter, yet there is no
hesitation in criticizing Kobe when warranted. The Blog is a much healthier place for having Jorema as part of
the family and so today Jorema, Poet Laureate, basketball critic extraordinaire and fine upstanding human being
on this August 15, 2007 we salute you. The Blog is better for your being so here’s to you JOREMA, enjoy your day.
JOREMA TODAY JOREMA TOMORROW JOREMA FOREVER
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BLOG LINES OF THE WEEK:
AK and BK should get Pulitzers compared to T.J. and the loser writers on the Times staff. LAKER TOM

You and all those dishonest sellers of false comments, won't prosper out of this blog, JOREMA

you are the incarnation of whom? Just return to your old self.... JOREMA

we are all so much more complex than the persona we project on this blog, someone may indeed be an
a$$hole or be full of crap, but can you really tell by what others post who they really are? HUBBIT

". Your one "MFer" away from being the next Mike T. ANDREW Z

Great teams can rise above injuries to succeed. Our Lakers, on the other hand, are one or two injuries away
from being a lottery team ... HAL9000

Bynum and Mihm at C is as solid as anyone else in the league, there are no more dominating Centers TAOSHUM

. Let's be honest...the FO could have done what little they've done from home, setting by the pool, with a drink in one
hand and the remote control in the other. TELLITLIKEITIS

If you really don't want anyone except the addressee to respond to a post that you place on a blog, try email. EXHELODRVR
Grown men don't need to call each other every other day to validate their friendship. Rocky
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,Ghost of Spiderman, Steve in Denver Guy Owanlele, Lincoln Laker, Houston Laker
MITCH KUPCHAK, JERRY BUSS, PHIL JACKSON, KOBE BRYANT, CLEON
Marc Gasol, Sun Yue, Shamond, Williams, Ronny Turiaf, V. Radmanovic,
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Jordan Farmar, Jarvis Critterton, JERMAINE ONEAL???, FAITH
ALL TOGETHER NOW:
WE ARE THE FREAKIN LA LAKERS THE WINNERS OF 14 NBA TITLES
THE HOME OF WILT, KAREEM, GEORGE MIKAN, SHAQ, MAGIC, KOBE,
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COACHED BY THE 9 TIME TITLE WINNER PHIL (9RINGS) JACKSON AND
NO ONE AND NOTHING WILL EVER DIVIDE OR CONQUER Posted by: Mamba24/1

"circumstances being that MJ is a man and kobe is a little girl?"

Actually, those aren't circumstances, but if I have to define what a circumstance is, I probably shouldn't be arguing with you.

And no, I don't have a sense of humor.

What kind of value could the Lakers get for Kobe?

Part 2: Straight trade with New York

Presumably if the Lakers are trading away Kobe, they want to build around Bynum, so they
wouldn't want to bring in a Center and slow his development. I'll go with Randolph as
the better straight trade with New York.

$$$
Side deal: Lakers trade Brian Cook for a trade exception
$$$

Lakers send Kobe Bryant and Vlad Radmanovic to New York

New York sends the following to the Lakers:

+Zach Randolph
+David Lee
+Wilson Chandler
+Nate Robinson
+sign & trade Demetrius Nichols for salary matching
+two first round draft picks

Assuming the Lakers trade off Nate Robinson for a future draft pick and waive Coby Karl,
their team looks like this after the trade:

C - Bynum, Brown, Mihm
PF - Randolph, Lee, Turiaf
SF - Odom, Walton, Nichols
SG - Evans, Chandler, Vujacic
PG - Fisher, Farmar, Crittendon

Total salary before the trade = $70,532,742
(ESPN trade machine had the salaries I was missing)
Total salary after the trade = $60,425,490

So even with Z-Bo's bigger contract, dumping Radmanovic gets the Lakers a 10 million
dollar drop in salary the first year.

In terms of positions, they're the same as before the trade at center and point guard.
Getting Randolph lets the Lakers slide Odom over to starting small forward, and with
David Lee and Luke Walton coming off the bench at the forwards, both positions improve
a lot. Shooting guard is still a big dropoff, but Evans can hold down the fort until the Lakers
acquire a good SG through trade or free agency (or in the possibility that Chandler or
Evans blossoms into a quality starting SG).

$$$$$ Next Summer

In summer of 2008, here are the players the Lakers would still have under contract (assuming
as usual that Mihm opts out):

C - Bynum
PF - Randolph, Lee
SF - Odom, Walton, Nichols
SG - Chandler
PG - Fisher, Farmar, Crittendon

restricted free agent: Vujacic
unrestricted free agents: Turiaf, Brown, Mihm, Evans

At that point, they'd have $38,988,739. That would give them a whopping 20 million
in cap space -- probably good enough to bring in two "first big contract" guys or one
legit all-star who wants out of where they are. Plus they'd probably have enough left
over to re-sign one or two of their 5 free agents.

$$$

Summer of 2009, Bynum, Odom, and Lee would be up for re-signing.

$$$

Variants:

If the Lakers took Balkman instead of Lee, he might be a hair less talented, but
Renaldo's contract lasts longer, so they'd keep a PF spot occupied for longer for less.
If they want to settle for less cap space, the Lakers could bring back Jamal Crawford
in the deal and he could fill the SG spot for a few years. Other possible players in
the mix for consideration would be Fred Jones, Dan Dikau, Randolph Morris,
and Mardy Collins.

ex

"I'm sure that this is Kobe's fault, somehow."

kobe outta take responsibility for the Doger's annual slid out of 1st place. Go Angles!

JJ,

on the kobe/shaq and MJ/shaq question, i would argue that MJ and shaq would have co-existed better than kobe and shaq because the thing that MJ has over kobe is the mental capacity to see the big picture. as lakertom would say, MJ isn't "myopic" in his quest to the the most dominant ever before the real Most Dominant Ever (shaq) arrived.

Somewhere along the way, kobe forgot the golden f*cking rule, to be legendary, you have to do it in the playoffs, not the razzle dazzle of the regular season. Case in point, anybody talking about how great Domnic Wilkins was? The playoffs is where legends are made. some on this blog knock shaq, but shaq's got 3 more finals MVPs than kobe. the kobe loyalist can argue about the "yeah, buts" until their blue in the face, but the reality is that shaq has 3 finals MVP and Jordan has 6. hell, even Wade has one and Wade is still a budding star.

kobe has none and will probably not get the opportuntiy the day he chased shaq out of town. too bad really cuz kobe was on the cusp of being a true "legend" but you gotta do it in the playoffs.

Don't make the Sheep angry: You wouldn't like him when he's angry.

KOBE DID IT
Stock market down Kobe did it.
No Iraq rebound. Kobe did it.
Space shuttle gets a leak Kobe did it.
Housing Market gets weak. Kobe did it.
Price of gas to high? Kobe did it.
Karl Rove said goodbye Kobe did it.
We don’t get KG. Kobe did it
Is that a crooked referee? Kobe did it
He hit 81 again. Kobe did it.
I think I’m gonna grin. Kobe did it.

Everyone, thanks for the love from the previous post.. you guys are awesome too -- especially Mamba24/10 -- I always love reading your posts...

Anyways, since everyone seems to still want to talk about trading Kobe or not, I started thinking about real possible trade scenarios MINUS THE CONTRACT STUFF that would benefit BOTH teams if this were to happen. Now, this doesn't mean that someone would do it or if it would even work out financially -- I don't have that much time this week and so i don't want to look at the trade machine and what not... anyways... here goes:

1) Kobe Bryant for Yao Ming.

WHY IT SHOULD HAPPEN:

This trade would help relieve the pressure of the whole Kobe drama for Los Angeles and still allow for ticket sales as the Chinese population in L.A. would probably fill the void of Kobe's absence. The Lakers would still be contenders and have a REALLY REALLY Center filled roster. Yao would also help us get some dang rebounds.

This trade would allow for Houston to have someone who can take them past the first round. Kobe would team up with T-Mac and make a very high-ratings team. The impact on ticket sales would probably be positive b/c of the newfound hype of the KobeMac combo. Sounds delicious.

WHY IT WON'T HAPPEN:

Besides ripping up Houston financially (again i'm assuming here), Houston won't want to pull this trigger because the Yao-Mac thing kind of works as is. A two superstar thing in Denver has yet to really prove great results and that would probably be enough to prevent the deal from ever happening.
The Lakers would also be scared of the contractual obligations that Yao Ming has to the Chinese National Team. Oh yeah, and Kobe would probably decline the trade "request".

WHY IT WOULD BE FUN TO WATCH:

Obviously the KobeMac combo would be fun to watch. The Yao Lakers would be really fun though since Phil would implement a tall man lineup one time or another with Yao, Mihm, Brown, Bynum, and Lamar running point on the floor.

2) Kobe Bryant for LeBron James

WHY IT SHOULD HAPPEN:
Don't get me wrong, LeBron is not even in the same stratosphere as Kobe Bryant. I also don't think he will get there because to me, LeBron is business driven while KB is game driven. However, if it comes down that the Lakers must trade Kobe, why not get one of the other best pieces.

The Lakers would get another Kobe-type player and the loss of Kobe wouldn't sting as much. I'm sure the Lakers would pull this trigger in a heartbeat if it were ever offered.

The Cavaliers would theoretically go farther with Kobe than with LeBron. LeBron is great and all but imagine the buzz that would be generated if Kobe went to the Cavs. What am I saying, the Cavs would..

WHY IT WON'T WORK"

never do it. There is no way in hell, unless the Cav's GM suddenly was named Kupchak, that they'd do it. That would be a stupid move for a team that reached the Finals. Granted, probably nobody really thinks the Cavs are going to reach the finals again in the near future without additions. Anyways, the Cav's won't do this.

The Lakers probably wouldn't do it because our GM is Mitch Kupchak.
Kobe would also NEVER do this. He wouldn't risk his image like that -- a team that went to the Finals with LeBron could not go with Kobe. BTW, even though I believe Kobe is the best player in the NBA, I don't think he could take the Cavs to the finals. LeBron taking them was, in my opinion -- sorry LeLovers -- a one time thing.
Anyways, I just threw this one out there for no reason at all -- sorry.

3) Kobe Bryant for Dwayne Wade

WHY THIS SHOULD HAPPEN:
BTW, I really really don't like Wade and believe that he is a little bit overrated. He is a good player but he is nowhere near Bryant. The only reason I am suggesting this is because it would be so fun to watch the drama unfold somewhere else for a change.

The Lakers would get a good quality guard and have some hope of the playoffs and maybe better chemistry.

The Heat would have an instant TNT rescheduling on their hands. Every Heat game would be watched by everyone just waiting for the new drama to unfold. Let's face it -- the Heat are never going back to the finals in the near future -- might as well make more money right?

WHY IT WON'T HAPPEN:
If you are looking for an explanation here, that means that you are not a basketball fan at all.

Anyways, besides the Yao thing, I really wasn't serious. The Yao thing I'd actually go for. Yao is probably the only one in the NBA I'd trade Kobe for just because Yao gives you consistent high points/rebounds barring injuries and can be as dominant as Kobe can be.

Ok, it's now 3:50am here -- this blog seriously kills my time. But what else can I do, this blog is my crack. I check it at least 10 times a day even though I don't post all of the time.

Anyways, GO LAKERS!!!

STOP THE HATE 2008

David

Who should be the starting five for the USA Team?

HERE'S MINE!

Howard
Stoudamire
James
Bryant
Kidd

or

Howard
Durant
Anthony
Bryant
Kidd

My 12 would be ..

Howard/Chandler
Durant/Stoudamire/Bosh
James/Anthony/Prince
Bryant/Miller
Kidd/Williams

Don't worry about Donaghy. He can always pay back his debt by writing a book called "If I bet it."

Long time Laker fan!

Summer of 2009, Bynum, Odom, and Lee would be up for re-signing

At that point, they'd have $38,988,739. That would give them a whopping 20 million
in cap space -- probably good enough to bring in two "first big contract" guys or one
legit all-star who wants out of where they are
================
I WILL NOT RESIGN ODOM...... AND GO AFTER KOBE BRYANT HARD! So if you want him back, solution to your future problem, DO NOT TRADE HIM.

Long time laker fan,

Not to disrespect your well intentioned trade for the good of the lakers but to trade Kobe with Knicks players, bloggers here felt ZZZZZZ ZZZZZ ZZZZ ZZZ they could not find the beef in it to declare that we're now an improved team. Although, I ask for change, please don't change for the worst. Can we trade Kobe for AI & Melo? That's a fair deal. How about Nash & Stoudemire? That's also OK. How about Nowitsky, Terry and Howard? Pretty alright How about LBJ, Verajao & Gooden? Even with those names, majority of the fans here are not agreeable with any kind of trade. They think Kobe is the only player who has worked hard so why get rid of your best salesman? they would prefer that you trade the whole team and change entirely the 11 players including the GM perhaps, we'll have better chances to venture the unknown than anticipating what is already known. Trading will never happen this year cuz' Kobe is the only player who could sell tickets and jerseys.

KOBE BRYANT will be the so dominant in team USA that thinking of trading him will be a big JOKE!

Kobe while playing with team USA with all the all-stars and great players is still their best:

BEST SHOOTER
BEST DEFENDER
BEST SLASHER
BEST PASSER AFTER KIDD
BEST REBOUNDER AFTER HOWARD
BEST STEAL
BEST GO TO GUY TO WIN CLOSE GAMES
BEST EFFORT FOR 48 MINUTES EVERY GAME AND EVERY PRACTICE
BEST TEAMMATE TO PUMP UP EVERYONE IN THE TEAM
BEST ALL AROUND PLAYER
BEST PERIMETER PLAYER
BEST BALL HANDLING PLAYER AFTER PG POSITION
BEST 3 POINT SHOOTER
BEST MID RANGE SHOOTER

BEST OF ALL ....HE IS A LAKER!

KG is on the Dan Patrick show right now trying to convince
Reggie Miller who's house he is over to join the Boston Celtics

Could ANYONE who knows Andrew Bynum have him read this and step up his training :o)

“I can’t stop playing basketball," Stoudemire said. "I can’t stop lifting weights. I want my body to be shredded and my game on point.”

Looking lean and limber, Stoudemire credits his eating and exercise habits for his sleek new frame.

“Chicken, fish and turkey," he added. "I think that keeps me very lean. A lot of people are saying that I lost weight, but I haven’t. I’m still 245. But I’m chiseled.”

For five weeks, Stoudemire maintained a grueling training regimen that began with weight lifting in the morning, individual skill development in the afternoon, Pilates in the early evening and pro-am league games at night. He followed this program five days a week, allowing his body the weekends to recuperate.

When running through basketball drills, the 24-year old didn’t just concentrate on developing one pet move. Instead, he took a comprehensive approach in hopes of sculpting a more well-rounded game. Ballhandling, off-the-dribble shooting and 3-point shooting were just some of the areas he targeted.

Hey AK,

Has anyone heard about a deal for Camby. I know the Nuggets are way over the Luxary tax and are a little short at the Small Forward and the Center position. Do you think the Lakers could make a deal for Camby?

MJT

The reason Kobe cannot be traded effectively is that he is more valuable to the Lakers than any other team. This is not a comment on his game or his reputation around the league; rather, it's a comment on how others would react to the Lakers making him available. He's assumed to be untouchable. By making it clear that he was available, the Lakers would be admitting automatically that something physical, personal or interpersonal was wrong. No one pays full price for damaged goods.

It's like an old-fashioned poison pill strategy: By lashing out, Kobe virtually guaranteed that the Lakers would not get full value; this forces the Lakers to build around Kobe rather than look for an even trade (there are very few players of Kobe's stature in their prime).

All of this was enabled by the Lakers' previous decision to give Kobe the no-trade. If this clause ends up leveraged against LA, you can't blame Kobe; you can only blame management for negotiating poorly.

weave-man,

I was using my post back to you to complain about other people's usage of stats. I unlike JJ actually think that other people on this blog read all the posts so I directed at them. I apologize if you thought it got misconstrued.

and secondly,

You know, you are right. I just looked at that hoopshype article. The nuggets are obviously looking to get a perimter oriented big man.

EXCEPT YOU STILL THINK THAT BRIAN COOK IS A SHOOTING BIG MAN.

"One rumored trade could feature the Magic sending Keyon Dooling and Pat Garrity to Denver for Evans and enigmatic shooting guard J.R. Smith." -denver post

You think Brian Cook is comparable to Patt Garrity. Wow. First off you would know that in college Pat Garrity was a shooting big man, Brian Cook was a post player. Then you would know that over the past 7-8 seasons Pat Garrity has been a shooting big man. You would also know that Brian Cook has been coverted to resemble a shooting man after his rookie season.

See, your best defense is that I dont know anything about basketball and I am being childish. But clearly you have no knowledge to back it up, and you yourself are making childish comments. Trust me, you are the real short sighted one here. You just read stuff in hoopshype then just repeat. You're just acting like a parrot.

Not to mention that the deal includes Keyon Dooling who would be our third best guard if he was added to our roster, and the immediate upgrade to the Nuggets. Yeah that has nothing to do with it right???

Edwin,

Why do you care about tickets and jerseys????? Why does any fan here care about tickets and jerseys? Do you have a minoritiy owner stake in the Lakers????

You guys immediately become defendents of the FO when saying not to trade Kobe because of the "tickets and jerseys" yet blast the FO for keeping Kobe only for the "tickets and jerseys". So which one is it???

Trade Kobe, and get a real team, and then real fans will buy someone else's jersey and still go buy tickets.

Business is business, as the saying goes. No way does Kobe go for all the ______ in the world, just isn't smart business. While it's about the team, the player (in this case the best player) has a lot to do with the 400+ million dollar worth of a team.

Ex, Kobe is also responsible for Dougherty "fixing" games. Little known fact.

KLBeast

First let me say that my initial question should have involved MJ going to the Lakers like Kobe did and not still going to Chicago. That would eliminate the Pippen factor. I should have also stated that Kobe would take the place of MJ becoming Air Kobe. Now having those two things factored in....what do you think?

I must admit that i would still believe that MJ would have been a better fit because he had more of a friendly attitude of the court. On the court, he would have been harder to deal with than Kobe was with Shaq. However, MJ is the type that he will punch you in the face during practice but then walk up to you after practice and invite you out to dinner and drinks. Shaq would respond to something like that as would the other teammates have (maybe not Fisher). However, Kobe wouldn't have done that.

Part of the difference stems from those 3 years of college. MJ was able to learn how to play with more experienced players than himself like Worthy and Perkins (at the time), whereas Kobe was hit with it in the pros. Jordan also had to deal with being friends with these guys off the court in college whereas Kobe never had that experience. Plus, MJ and Shaq would have been Frats...both having pledged Omega Psi Phi. That is significant and worth noting. Shaq is so much about relationships and bonding, whereas Kobe is more coldly about winning. On the court it can be very useful....although it can kill a team at the same time....as it did with the Lakers.

Your point about Kobe understanding the playoffs as the time you shine is so wrong. Where were you when Kobe was hitting all of those final shots during the 3 titles? Where were you when Kobe was taking over a playoff game in the fourth quarter or overttime? Where were you when Kobe was playing through an injury and seemingly willing his team to victory in a crucial playoff game? He understands that....he just trying to also make up for lost time with the regular season awards. You fail to realize Kobe had no scoring titles, NBA MVP awards or most of the other regualr season awards while playing with Shaq. No one was going to give it to Kobe over Shaq even if he had been the more productive one at any of those times. Furthermore, Kobe still craves those awards because it is all apart of his desire to leave the game as the undisputed best ever. I honestly don't see a problem with that. Although Russell has the most titles ever, people say MJ is the best ever. Kobe knows that and thus realizes that even if he had just kept winning titles with Shaq it wouldn't have raised him any. IT would have raised Shaq! I have to say that I understand that mindset.

In closing, I personally would rather be a Robert Horry anyday, but that's because my personality is much different. However, for guys that have the ability and personality, they have a burning and unquenchable desire to be more.

Bogs Adornado

I would go with your first lineup: Howard, Stoudemire, James, Bryant and Kidd. However, I would use the same strategy and mindset as the 1992 Dream Team did and let Anthony (Barkley) be the guy getting all the glory as the 6th man. Magic and Jordan pumped Chuck up as the main star. He scored the most and did the most for the team and had the most success out of those guys. It kind of looked like they were having mercy on the guy with no title, seeing as how Jordan, Magic or Bird could have been the main star. I also find it interesting that half of the roster won championships during their career but the other half didn't....Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Ewing, Laettner, and Mullin. Barkley was chosen as the special player and Anthony should be as well. I think Vince was chosen when he went to the Olympics.

Jim gray is such a loser; the other Kobe pan.

Today he asks Amare, "who do you enjoy playing with the most? Kobe or Kevin Durant"

what kind of question that is only looking for a lead in is that???

by the way, amare's answer : Jason Kidd.

JJ,,

Jordan and Shaq are both Q dawgs????

damn that would been 8 titles.

Hey AK, with Kobe being in one of the new ads of the NBA, I may have to take back that whole "nba" would rather not promote Kobe argument haha.

Bogs Adornado & Edwin Gueco,

But the point of the posts isn't to show "This is a trade we should make". It's more trying to
consider, If we had to trade Kobe, what are some various trades that could happen and what
would it do to the team for the next couple of years.

You can compare these snapshots to what's MOST LIKELY to happen over the next two years. I
didn't write up an eval, but it's more of the same. Kupchak will be too conservative, so no big
risky trades for stars will get done. Buss will be unwilling to let Bynum go, so whether the
franchise grows quickly or much more slowly will ride on his shoulders. The Lakers won't
improve enough to win a championship this year, and Kobe will raise his threats again next
summer, at which time the Lakers will either work a miracle (like Boston did this summer) to
pull together a contender to take one last shot to keep Kobe, or they will trade him and build
around the core of players they've been nurturing. That's what I honestly believe WILL happen.

I'm not going to work up a trade for DWade or LeBron because those teams will not trade their
stars, even for Kobe. What's more, Kobe hasn't agreed to be traded to Miami or Cleveland. He
specifically mentioned the Knicks as a team he would be willing to be traded to, and I'm riding
that premise. The trades I'm writing up aren't outrageous, they're realistic. Isaiah Thomas
would give up a bunch of players for Kobe. Atlanta likely would give up a couple of good
players to get a good center (but note that I didn't suggest they'd give up Joe Johnson or
Josh Smith - that would start to dip into unrealistic trade territory) I'm just trying to present
the sort of deal that might get done, and what the Lakers would look like in the short term if it
did happen.

And by the way, so far I haven't presented a trade that I think makes the team better next
year. If you were one of the people shouting that we should trade Kobe, the sooner the better,
then these sort of scenarios might be a sobering influence. There are actually one or two
third teams I haven't written up yet that are more beneficial to the Lakers. I'll do one of
those tomorrow.

I'm trying to do one per blog for a while. It's like doing the crowssword puzzle, but instead of
filling in words in boxes, and making the horizontal match up with the vertical, I'm filling in
names on rosters and making the salary and the talent level match up (to the extent that
you can).

Let me ask you this: do you think David Lee and Renaldo Balkman are good forwards who
are worth acquiring? Would it be more beneficial to the Lakers if they took Nate Robinson
or Wilson Chandler back from the Knicks instead of one of them? Would you think it would
be a better deal to get a more experienced player from the Knicks (e.g. Jamal Crawford
or Quentin Richardson) and less of the rookies?

From ESPN's Chris Sheridan:

Andre Iguodala knows that when LeBron James drives left he tends to pull up and shoot a jumper, and when James goes to his right he likes to take the ball to the hole.

When defending Paul Pierce, he knows Pierce's favorite move is to jab right, go left and then pull up for a jumper. With Vince Carter, Iguodala likes to get up and get physical. And with Kobe Bryant, he knows which way Bryant prefers to go, but he's not giving that little secret away.

"If I tell you, everybody will know," Iguodala said.

JJ,,

thats a real interesting point. Thats why shaq cares so much about brotherhood, and MJ sees his teammates like family where he can yell and hate them, but still do anything for them. (the way MJ helps former teammates still like hiring sam vincent.)

They both have that fraternity understanding, that Kobe lacks. thats a real interesting point.

KLBeast
"i have the same view on kobe. the dumb-a$$ know-it-all kid. always have been and still is. remember a 24-somthing kobe calling shaq a "child". in my mind, having somone my junior calling me a "child" is fighting words. i'm surprised that shaq didn't kicked the bejesus out of kobe. remember kobe calling raja bell (my hero) a "kid" when bell was kobe's senior by 2 years? same MO (method of operation)."

You're exactly right. That's apart of his background and how he was raise. That's one lesson you learn from family. Never to disrespect your elders. Something young kids today laugh at.

Steve in Denver
"It continues to amaze me how haters like you continue to read thier own feelings and thoughts into everything KB24 does. I saw KB24 on Kimmel and it was completely uneventful. To jump on his prenunciation of some doppy soccer player is an embarrassing show od cards for you."

#1 thank you for your response. #2 you don't know me. #3 If you want to classify me as a hater, that's your perogative. But, I'm calling it how i saw Kobe on the show and I know others would think the same.

Jorema,
"1s round you are the incarnation of whom?"

What are you talking about kid? Where did the incarnation come from. Lay off the crackpipe.

Kobe Apologist
"All I'm saying is that Kobe is just as good as Jordan was, the only difference is their circumstances. Kobe could have done everything Jordan did given the same circumstances"

Great statement! Key word "Could". Had he gone about is differently 4-5 years ago. But, I'm going to give you this. There's still a possibility but he still needs to learn those elements in the 4th quarter on how to get your team over the barrier in those 2-3 points game deciders.That's where Jordan became Jordan.

If we HAVE TO trade Kobe, I want Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis.

For those of you that are already doubting Jordan Farmar.

Here's a little review that John Hollinger wrote about Deron Williams during his rookie season:

"Come back, Carlos Arroyo, all is forgiven. The Jazz are saying the right things about their bungled choice of Williams over Paul this June, but good heavens, look at their actions. Last week, Jerry Sloan went to a lineup with two points guards, and didn't choose Williams for either spot. It wasn't like they had Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson lying around either -- Williams is now backing up Keith McLeod and Milt Palacio. That's what 38 percent shooting with few offsetting positives will get you."

I would suggest a bit more patience with Jordan. Don't be quick to trade him off for a washed
up power forward from the Timberpups. Farmar was excellent at the college level, and I feel
if he'd have stayed for his junior and senior years and continued to develop, he'd have definitely
been a lottery pick. Get him the sort of minutes he deserves this year and you'll find that he's
a composed leader on the floor who makes his teammates better. He's also a very intelligent
player, and with Fisher mentoring him, I think he'll be just what the Lakers need at the point
for years to come.

Is there a team that believes it is a Kwame away from reaching the next level?

I don't think Randolph could be included in any trade as packaged with other players for six months after he's become a Knick as per the players union rules on trades -he'd half to be traded straight up until december. So if an off season trade with the Knicks would happen, it would have to include I guess Curry ( not a good thing) and then Lee and others- really not that tempting for the Lakers, I'd assume it would be something like Curry, Lee, Crawford and Balkman - I don't know, perhaps good young players there, but -----

The obvious team that has the pieces for a trade is the Bulls - at least if Kobe were to be moved in the off season. Dueng, Thomas, Noah, Heinrich is where I'd start as a reasonable offer- and if that type of thing were to accepted the Lakers, I'm guessing, just through their inaction and Kobe's vibe, would do the deal -I don't know if the Bulls would though, frankly.

Other trades that concievably would make sense, would be a trade to New Jersey perhaps, Carter and Jefferson for Kobe, but that also couldn't happen until December because Carter opted out and then resigned as a free agent with NJ.

So straight up trades are doubtful before the season starts.

And also, I'm not sure the Bulls are that interested in gutiting its nucleas as I'm not sure the Bulls are that interested in gutiting its nucleas. So I'd imagine that Isiah is looking for a deal: something, perhaps that has Gilbert Arenas ending up in LA.

All this I think is relevant because if your really look at the journalism that's been covering the Bryant situation, hate to say it, but Bucher is the only person who has a source in Bryant or a source in anyone really. No one seems to be speaking to the front office - they pontificate that Kobe can't be traded blah blah blah and that Jeanie Buss said that they can't trade him...

The way I see it, the Lakers have accepted Kobe's stance, Bucher is reporting Kobe's stance and the team is waiting for a deal that makes sense and will do nothing to substanionally jeopordize their future to appease Kobe.....

Sure Kobe can hold out, and maybe he will, but I think the team won't challenge him, won't wait it out. They don't want a circus - they'll make a move, maybe he'll sit out until December, but they'll move him.

The problem is, finding a deal through the specific nba rules and what not that makes the most sense, and it will take until the fall.

Lake Show,

This has gone too far. I've let my anger at you take over my posting, and I shouldn't have. That said, you're still not making any sense. Converted or not, Brian Cook is a big man that shot 40% from the 3 pont line this year, and 42% last year.

Now, you talk about what he WAS in college but when has that ever mattered in the NBA? JJ Reddick was a great offensive player in college, but whats he gonna be in the NBA? Either a bench player, or a spot up shooter. Dee Brown was a great player in college, but what is he in the NBA? A 2nd to 3rd string pg at best. Christian Lattener was one of the best college players of his generation, and has done squat in the NBA. Unfortunately college players very rarely do what they are expected to once they reach the NBA.

As far as me being a parrot goes, I said we should go after Reggie Evans 2-3 days ago long before hoopshype said it. Matter of fact the first time I mentioned it was at LEAST a week ago. You can check the previous threads, trust me it's there. Even if I didn't think about trading for Evans a while ago, it's clear to see by looking at Denver's roster that they have too many big men, and not enough shooters. Anyone with ANY basketball knowledge would know they would want to move one of them for a shooter.

Orlando's offer would be better than ours though because Dooling is a better player than Sasha, and both Dooling, and Garrity are on the last year of their contracts. I don't know how you can say Garrity is so much better than Cook, but to each his own.

Anti-Kobites:

Is there another way to spend Kobe's salary and get closer to a ring?

That's the fundamental issue; not whether or not you are personally offended by Kobe's attitude, actions, or words. Each of those things can be filed under "irrelevant."

Short of getting, say, Tim Duncan, (who, though an effective ball player, is a vile, brain-sucking zombie), there is not a better place for the Lakers to park Kobe's salary than in Kobe's bank account. For this reason, he needs to remain the "constant" while the Lakers' organization works the variables.

The D

"Is there a team that believes it is a Kwame away from reaching the next level"

Im not sure, but weave-man says that the Nuggets are a Brian Cook away from reaching the next level.

The D,
"Is there a team that believes it is a Kwame away from reaching the next level? "

If Kwame were on a team coached by anyone other than PJ, he would be an all-star. Who wouldn't want him?

"I don't think Randolph could be included in any trade as packaged with other players for six months after he's become a Knick as per the players union rules on trades -he'd half to be traded straight up until december."

No, the December deadline is for free agents who are signed. Randolph was traded. The trade
restrictions work like this:

Draft pick signed: 30 days before you can trade them

Free agent signed: After a free agent signs with a team, he cannot be traded for three months,
or until December 15, whichever is Later.

Traded player: If a team is over the cap and receives a player in a trade or off waivers, they
cannot trade the player in combination with other players for 2 months. The player can be
traded by himself.

So Randolph can be traded with other players 2 months after the original trade. That means
about the end of August, he's fair game for trades.

JJ

Great topic of discussion on the if MJ would have joined an established shaq in LA. i guess this the best conversation we'll have for a while, so kudos for brining it up.

i agree with you that had MJ joined shaq, the circumstances would have been a little different becuase of the college background for both players and the directness in MJ over kobe. in other words, if MJ had a problem with shaq, they'll settle it man-to-man, then go for drinks later. i think shaq would respect that too growing up in a military family. i think shaq disrespected kobe because kobe was the typicall snot-nosed kid who's very good at doing things, then rubs it in other's faces. i don't think the badmouthing helped either.

as for kobe's legacy, i think kobe was being short-sighted by thinking the best way to secure his legacy is to make shaq disappear. magic was able to secure his legacy with kareem still around. don't you think that had shaq stuck around around, at about 2005 to 2006 kobe would be the undisputed #1? i think yes.

on the question of kobe's playoff performance during 00-04, no question kobe was intrumental, but can you think of any MJ moments? for example, the play when MJ dropped the J over Craig Elho or the Bryon Russel pushofff? that's what i mean my legendary performances. there are plenty of guys who've had great performances in the playoffs, but "legendary" stuff is hard to come by. LBJ's performance against the Piston's in 2007 is an example. i'll remember that for a long, long time.

Enough about KOBE!

I think we all know what we'll see out of Kobe next season (The same thing we've seen the last 3 seasons).

I'm more looking forward to Lamar finally having his all-star year if he's healthy.

I'm looking more forward to Lamar going coast-to-coast for a beautiful lefty layin or a dish to Bynum under the bucket for an easy hoop.

I'm looking more forward to seeing DFISH burrying those crucial 3's late in close ball games.

I'm looking more forward to seeing the developement of Bynum (hopefully?)

I'm looking more forward to watching Crittenton and Farmar take big steps this season.

I'm looking more forward to seeing Luke be even more comfortable and improving on his post moves as he did last season.

I LOVE THIS TEAM. November can't come soon enough.

Bogs Adornado

"BEST OF ALL ....HE IS A LAKER!"

So what happens if Team USA doesn't in the gold since we have the "best player on the planet" and no more excuses on teammates? i guess the next excuse is going to be the international rules suck and is unfair to kobe.

mamba24

"Karl Rove said goodbye Kobe did it."

Karl Rove leaving isn't a bad thing. too bad, he's going to be the advisor the the RNC.

oh, BTW, killing the laker dynasty, kobe did it....sorry, i had to do it.

10milliondollarzen,

"Dueng, Thomas, Noah, Heinrich is where I'd start as a reasonable offer"

----

WOO HOO! If Chicago would go for that deal, I'd be begging the Lakers to take it. Deng could start
at small forward, Hinrich could take over the starting shooting guard spot, Thomas would beef up
the power forward spot, and Noah would be an excellent backup center, so they could get rid of
Kwame without worrying about depth at center.

Seriously though, Deng+Thomas+Hinrich is probably more of the Bulls core players than they'd
be willing to give up, even for Kobe. You might be able to squeeze them for Hinrich, Gordon,
and Thomas, or you might be able to get Deng & others, but I don't think they'd give up both
Luol Deng and Kirk Hinrich. I could be wrong. To be honest though, if the Lakers could get
the trade you suggested, it would make them much better next year, and give them two young
players to continue building for the future.

The D,

The Lakers!

1st round,

by now you must know as soon as you dont hail Kobe Bryant the best at anything, that somehow youre not a true laker fan or something of that matter. Youre not allowed to think broadly.

For example, one thing that people like to overlook between jordan and kobe is the intimidation factor. People were scared of MJ on the court. Nobody's scared of Kobe. they dont have that scared/respect for Kobe that they have for MJ. Sure Kobe can score, so can a lot of guys. But nobody backs down to him.

And for guys like Derek, who say that Kobe is better than Jordan, or that Jordan didnt face competition, really need to get real. I dont know what NBA games they watched in the 1990s, or what team. Actually I highly doubt that they watched any of those guys. The just know reggie, penny, heard the names of Clyde and Hakeem and Ewing, but have no idea that some of those guys are part of the 50 greatest players of all time list.

To say that the Lakers have played great compeition during their title runs comparable to MJ is defintely showing lack of knowledge. Now yes, for a year or two, the Spurs and Kings had very nice seasons, but they were hardly a team for the ages. The Knicks of the 90s were competive for a long time. And no, Im not talking about Larry Johnson, Allan Houston, Marcus Camby. Thats who you seem to think about. What about Charles Oakley the enforcer, Patrick Ewing, Anthony Mason , John Starks, Derek Harper Buck Wiliams, and other guys Im not remembering. Those guys had heart, guts and toughness. No team the Lakers played had that same type of mentality. The closest to that team would be the Ben Wallace led Pistons of their championship run. And guess what? They ran over the Lakers and ended their 3 season dynasty.

The one team that the Lakers struggled with, the Pacers in their first NBA finals, was a leftover remant of their earlier pacers. Reggie was exiting his prime, Jalen Rose was still decent. But they probably are even worse without a miracle auston croshure game. Unless you think Croshere is ultimate competition, then you know tha team was very thin.

but trust me, those werent the marc jackson, reggie of old, derek mckey, rik smits, haywood workman Pacers (hey does anybody know who those players are)

See it seems to me that people making the MJ to Kobe comparisons either overlook, have short term memory, or simply dont watch basketball.

"So what happens if Team USA doesn't [w]in the gold since we have the "best player on the planet" and no more excuses on teammates? i guess the next excuse is going to be the international rules suck and is [sic] unfair to kobe. "

Oh, you mean like the excuses that come out against Kobe when he scores 81 points in a winning game, the most since 1962?

Farmar couldn't dominate summer league competition after playing a full season in the show. BIG red flag warning. Also, Farmar still doesn't look strong enough to hoist 3 pointers, a few of the shots I saw were very weak, almost looking like he had hucked it from half court instead of the 3 point line. He needs to hit the weights and he needs to do what Gilbert Arenas is doing this summer. Set a goal of making however many 3 pointers from different points for the days remaining before training camp. Every day, make say, 100 total 3 pointers from one side and another 100 3 pointers from the other side, every day, day after day, get that burn in his arms to build up strength because right now... he doesn't have to be defended by anyone, they'll let him take those shots all day, which kind of hurts his ability to fake a shot and drive to the basket, where he is great at dishing to the open man for an easy shot.

Also, and... I'll say this carefully... was Farmar "concerned" about a little competition at the PG spot from Crittenton? I dunno, it just seemed, in summer league at least, that Farmar didn't exactly embrace the idea that he had to compete for the starting PG slot, or maybe I was just reading a little bit too much into things.

Faith: nice one.

The good news: I baked you a cake as thanks for that comment.
The bad news: I'm having Kwame deliver it.

Kwamecakes (tm)..... from our ovens to your doors in just.. OOPS!

weave-man,

sure i said we should go after reggie evans like a month ago (check the posts). Im not discounting him. And i also said that if you want offer cook for evans by all means if i were kupchek that would be the first thing i did. We dont disagree on that.

but your pulling a JJ, offering a trade that the other team would get no benefit from. Why do i say Pat Garrity is better than Cook? Because he has been doing it for 7-8 years and had a down year last year, or else his percentage would be higher. Unless you see Cook either improving or substaining a high level, i cant argue the future. But if im the nuggets GM, straight up im not taking Cook for Evans, and I dont think there is anyone that would

I agree that that the Bulls wouldn't give up all those players, I'm just thinking that is what the Lakers would ask for, and if it would ever be accepted, you're right, a no brainer, the Lakers would make the trade. I think a players the Bulls would trade would be in the realm of Gordon, Wallace and Thomas for Kobe..... nothing else would make sense for them.

Stand corrected about Randolph not being able to be traded until Dec....so he can be traded in late August - so if Kobe is hard lining and the Knicks offer Randolph, Lee and Crawford........

10 million dollar long time laker fan,

That is defiitely a high asking price. But he did say a start off proposal. I think if the Lakers immediately ask for a Wallace, Gordon, Ty Thomas trade proposal, then they might have to even give up more in terms of negotiations. Sort of like with the Jermaine O'neal trade.

but the Bulls would never give us those players. kobe's value isnt that high, and GMs recognize that it takes more than one player to win it all.

The best trade out there is Wallace, Gordon, Ty thomas and sefelosha, for Kobe and Mihm

The Lakers would roll out

C Wallace/Bynum/Kwame
PF Ty Thomas/Turiaf/Cook
SF Odom/Walton/Radmam
SG Gordon/Evans/Sefolosha
PG Fisher/Crittenton/Farmar

This team would automatically compete. Phil Jackson would have smart basketball players and the Lakrs would have a future. Ty Thomas is a future All-Star.

I think a lot of people are scared of Ben wallace's contract, but hed give the Lakers some defense and rebounding, and at least him standing there is better than Kwame. Plus it keeps Bynum on the bench, and keeps Bynum from asking big time contract. See if Bynum becomse the Lakers's starting center, hes going to want starting center money. Keep wallace their and all the Lakers have to do is transfer Kwame's contract for Bynum.

Lake Show,

Come on man, be real if you say something at least be man enough to own up to it.

"The WAY MOST OF YOU GUYS LIKE WEAVE-MAN TALK, then NO.

See you cant just backpeddal, or pick and choose stats how you want. We all know Smush couldnt stop nobody, Bynum isnt quite Alonzo Mourning, Kobe isnt a turnover machine making horrible mistakes, Smush isnt a good scorer, Lamar is truly a small forward not a power forward. But if I used stats like you guys do, then I could make a case right??? Is that how you want us to use stats weave-man??? Are those the type of stats that I cannot refute??"

But instead of being real, and just saying you were wrong you decided to say this;

"I was using my post back to you to complain about other people's usage of stats."

Yeah, sure you were. If you really want to play the stats game I could do that, to prove that Garrity's not much better(if he is better) than Cook but once again I AM NOT A BRIAN COOK FAN!!!!!! I think that has gotten lost in this whole big mess. I'm FOR trading him because of his lack of defense, rebounding, and overall toughness. My whole beef with you is you included me in a blanket statement, without knowing anything about me, or WHY I had the idea for the trade I posted. If you would have just asked me instead of assuming you knew what you're talking about, we could have avoided all of this.

tripgame3

"Kobe scored 81 against a zone defense, thats rather impressive. MJ never had to face a zone so you have to figure that into your discussion also."

do you mean the "zone" on the raptor's faces when kobe was doing layup drills during the game?

Lake Show,

"Is there a team that believes it is a Kwame away from reaching the next level"

"Im not sure, but weave-man says that the Nuggets are a Brian Cook away from reaching the next level."

I guess the Nuggets think so too, since they're trying to trade for the white version of Cook...Pat Garrity. You still don't seem to understand the BASIC concept of ROLE PLAYERS!!!! They're there to play a ROLE. Pat Garrity's ROLE will be to spread the defense, and SHOOT THE BALL. What is Brian Cook's ROLE on our team again?

Fine youre right. my misunderstanding.

But I still think the Nuggets are crazy to trade Evans for Cook.

And Garitty is a veteran, unlike Cook, so if youre trying to make a championship push you take the Vet, not the young guy. Maybe you're right and have more respect for cook than I do.

kobe apologist

"Oh, you mean like the excuses that come out against Kobe when he scores 81 points in a winning game, the most since 1962? "

first off, thanks for correcting my spelling.

what excuses? the raptor's stop playing defense and we watching kobe do layup drills. hell, i can score 81 points if my opponent just sits there and let me shoot freely.....but seriously, it was a great performance with or without the raptor's lack of defense.

Weave-man,

Brian Cook's role on our team is to sit on the bench.

Cook is seriously not that good. When did cook spread the floor for us??? If you can recall some times when Cook's three point shooting was opening up the floor for us, by all means, refresh my memory. I mean if Cook is really this important, than why did the Lakers sign Vlad? WHy was Cook is Phil's doghouse? I mean if Cook is really this improtant, than regardless of Vlad, Cook should move up in the depth chart.

not to mention, that trading Evans is only for financial reasons.

Cook is promised 10.5 mil over the next three seasons (he has a player option which i think hed love to take his third year)

Garrity one year for 3.7 mil.

Nuggets arent trying to get rid of Evans for skilll reasons. They want financial flexibility, something that Cook has a part in inhibiting the Lakers.

Reggie Evans! Yes! More Reggie Evans! I can't get enough of this guy. He's brutal around the basket, who knows what he would bring us that Turiaf doesn't BUT... he'll take the "enforcer" role to new levels!!!

Isaiah Thomas asking a player, "why didn't you get that rebound, son?" "Coach!!! he grabbed my balls!" Ahahahahaa!

We're talking scenes out of the Bad News Bears here, during training camp, Mihm goes up for a rebound, Evans jolts him, Mihm comes down, staggers over towards the sidelines and pukes all over the front row...

Bynum goes up for a rebound, Evans grabs with both hands... Bynum elbows him in the face, they go back down the court, now come back, Bynum goes for a slam and Evans does a right uppercut grab and hold while Bynum is still in the air... Bynum comes down and pukes all over the free throw line...

oh yeah! we've GOT to get Reggie Evans! he may score two points/game but he'll leave a trail of tears and puke wherever we play...

Yesterday was AndrewZ versus JJ

Today is Weaveman versus Lake Show

Tomorrow KLBeast versus Kobe Apologist

Lake-Show,

Don't kid yoruself. Both the MJ era and the more recent Lakers faced some difficult teams. You
mentioned Ewing's Knicks, who were knocked out by the Bulls for several of those 6 championship
years and then just couldn't quite beat Houston in the one season where Michael retired.

I think that season illustrates two things: first - if the Knicks were so great, then how come they
didn't win it all when they got the chance? Second, the Bulls without Michael made it to the
Eastern conference finals and lost in 7 games. So it wasn't like this was Michael and a bunch
of scrubs. He had some very good players around him. Take Kobe off of the 2000-2002 teams,
and I doubt they make it past teams like Sacramento and Portland, not to mention San Antonio
a team that is STILL making its mark.

It's all in the eyes of the beholder when comparing two players. There is no way of knowing
how Kobe would have done if he had been dropped into the league in Michael's situation or
vice versa. It's impossible to compare head-to-head, because the situations each faced, both
on their own team and on what teams they faced in the league is very different.

If you dropped Kobe in his prime into any of those six teams that won it all with Michael,
would they still win it? I think so. If you drop Michael just coming into his prime onto the
2000-2002 Lakers, would he be considered the second best player on the team to Shaq?
I think so. If Michael spent his whole career on the same team as Shaq, would as many
people consider him the best player ever? Or would some say that he mostly rode Shaq's
coattails (as they say about Kobe). If Michael was on a team with Kwame Brown, do you
think Jordan could carry them into the playoffs? (the last one's a trick question)

I say that Kobe and Michael are two of the best players in the history of the game. If I had
to pick between them in their prime, I'd probably pick Jordan, but it would be a tough call.
If I needed more outside shooting, I'd definitely pick Kobe.

Lake Show,

Are you SERIOUSLY arguing with me about PAT GARRITY being better than Cook? This is ridiculous. You say the dude has been doing it for 7-8 years, but the man has only had 2 good seasons, and in those seasons his percentages weren't even that good.

The fact that I'm even discussing this with you shows how far I have fallen. Garrity vs. Cook, Cook vs. Garrity, it doesn't matter their both ROLE players, that whether you want to admit it or not, do the SAME THING. Neither one is a franchise player, but they both can play their roles well and contribute to a championship team. I'm not gonna sit here, and post their stats(I can't lie I have looked at them) but if you want to see them you can go to NBA.com and look them up. LOL, I can't believe I'm even talking about these 2!!!!!

"Kwamecakes (tm)..... from our ovens to your doors in just.. OOPS!"

how about Kwamefingers? a derivative of butterfingers.

I don't know why, but I prefer it when we were arguing on who's worst, Kwame or Smush. Boy do I miss the good 'ol days lol.

The D, I was counting on that cake too!

Back to the Dougherty situ, really? It's just him? Wow, color me surprised. How fortuitous for the league that heads didn't have to roll. Stu Jackson still has his job. I'll be looking forward to when Kobe once again gets suspended for "nothing."

Lake-Show,

I think you're pretty much right about the sort of deal that would get it done with the Bulls.
I think Wallace, Gordon, and Thomas is the core of the main pieces they would be willing
to give up to get Kobe, and I think the Lakers would have to give them a player or two back
to satisfy both Kobe & the Bulls that they'd still be deep enough to compete.

I also think the Lakers would be slightly improved as a team after that trade - Wallace
would cover the starting center position while Bynum comes into his own. Gordon isn't
as good a defender as Kobe, but he is a good scorer. And Tyrus Thomas has a world of
upside.

Bear in mind that although I'm sure the Bulls would like to get Kobe, they're not
searching for a shooting guard currently. What they are searching for is a consistent
low post scorer. That's why my next 3-way trade analysis will be the Knicks and the
Bulls.

Why players won't back down from Kobe and did it with MJ?

Elemental Mr Watson.

The Press was friendly with MJ and they would ridiculed anybody who challenged him.
in his time he was the only player capable of score 50 in any night

Kobe had overwhelm a lot of trash talker like Arenas and Tracy.
Ray Allen, invented a injury to avoid a game against kobe, scared like a chicken going to the knive,

When Kobe does that...press haters will twist it: He just care about showing individual talent.

Also, the league try to Keep Kobe in check to booster the others stars.
Another reason is they can run three guys at kobe any time, knowing he play witnh some dubious players like Kwame, who ussually is let alone in ofense.

Mamba thanks for the homage.
BTW I'm a young woman.
I write about Basketball for a overseas magazine.

Lake Show,

"Brian Cook's role on our team is to sit on the bench.

Cook is seriously not that good. When did cook spread the floor for us??? If you can recall some times when Cook's three point shooting was opening up the floor for us, by all means, refresh my memory."

If memory serves (which it does), Brian Cook started 46 games for us 2 years ago!!!! Is that great for us as a team? Hell No, but he proved useful in some of those 46 games. There were a couple games(I don't have them taped so I can't tell you which ones) when other than Kobe Cook was the only one making any shots.

I mean if Cook is really this important, than why did the Lakers sign Vlad? WHy was Cook is Phil's doghouse? I mean if Cook is really this improtant, than regardless of Vlad, Cook should move up in the depth chart.

That's the same question I, and a lot of other posters asked last summer when they signed him. I've repeated many times that Cook, and Vlad are pretty much the same player, so one of them should be traded. Vlad's probably not going anywhere so that leaves Cook. I don't know Phil personally but I assume Cook was in his doghouse because he plays no defense, can't rebound, and is a Vlad clone. Why have 2. I never said Cook was important so I don't even know why you're mentioning that.

Mamba:

Great choice to honor Jorema! Other than her doubting of Andrew, I usually find myself cheering and applauding while reading her posts. She may not be a native English speaker, but she knows how to work the words to get her ideas across with great insight, intelligence, humor, and irony. She is a true wordsmith and one sharp lady and true Laker fan who can be on my team any day.

Tom

LTLF:

Great post about Jordan Farmar! It’s funny how so many posters on the blog refuse to consider that our young players could make leaps that could make them much more valuable and help bridge the gap to become an elite team.

I have to admit to being guilty of that with Jordan. I became disenchanted when he did not take advantage of finally getting the chance to start and when the reports from summer league were less than stellar.

When you look at most of the elite teams today, much of the reason why they are elite teams has to do with their young players improving – e.g., Josh Howard of Dallas and Leandro Barbosa of Phoenix. Maybe next year the talk will be about Andrew Bynum, Jordan Farmar, and Javaris Crittendon of the Lakers.

Tom

Lake Show,

'And Garitty is a veteran, unlike Cook, so if youre trying to make a championship push you take the Vet, not the young guy."

That is a very valid point, and you're right, you do take the vet over the young guy if you're making a championship run. I wasn't comparing our offer with the Magic's though. I already said that their offer is better than the one I proposed because they get 2 expiring contracts instead of 1.

"Nuggets arent trying to get rid of Evans for skilll reasons. They want financial flexibility, something that Cook has a part in inhibiting the Lakers."

That statement is true, and false. They like Evans' rebounding skill, but they don't like the fact that he can't score (that's why he didn't get any burn in the playoffs). Yes, the main reason is for financial purposes, but I've already mentioned that. That's why I said Cook, and Sasha for Evans because Sasha's contract is expiring, and Cook's is shorter than Evans. As far as inhibiting the Lakers with his contract, you can blame that on the FO. They had no business extending Cook. It made no sense, and it just put us deeper in cap hell.

"Oh, you mean like the excuses that come out against Kobe when he scores 81 points in a winning game, the most since 1962?"

was it the same toronto team that asked kobe for his autograph after the game?

sounds like a case of the Brett Farve and Strahan scanal.

jormea

"BTW I'm a young woman. I write about Basketball for a overseas magazine."

thanks for sharing. may i ask which country and why you dispise shaq so much? this is a serious post.

jormea

"Also, the league try to Keep Kobe in check to booster the others stars."

you make it seem like everybody is againt kobe. it's simply not true. if kobe weren't such as a$$hole, he'd get more breaks.

Lesson Learned: Don't be an a$$hole in life, everybody will be out to get you (or at minimum other's won't look out for you).

TaosHum,
I know that PJ prefers not to play rookies, but by halfway through the season last year, it was obvious that Smush wasn't going to make the "Step up" from the previous year that had been hoped for. And Farmar still didn't start, with Parker as his competition. That tells me a lot about Farmar's potential.

YAO MING TO KOBE: "F-U"?

I wonder if kobe's invited to Yao's wedding? probably not cuz most guys don't invite a$$holes to their wedding...

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/sports/2007-08/15/content_6027556.htm

"Obviously Yao has grown into one of the best centers in the league," O'Neal said.

I don't see Shaq giving praise to the "best player on the planet".

"O'Neal is widely regarded as the NBA's most dominant centre after winning four NBA championships, three with the Los Angeles Lakers between 2000 and 2002 and one with the Heat last year."

Who won the championshis last year? THAT'S RIGHT MIAMI...

Hi ya' everybody

how about this trade:

Lakers send Kwame Brown, Brain Cook, and Jordan Farmar

to Clippers for Corey Maggette, Shaun Livingston, and Aaron Williams

Lakers Line up:

PG-Fisher\Critter/Livingston(IR)
SG-Kobe\Evans/Vuijuic
SF-Maggette\Walton/Carl
PF-Odom\Radman/Turiuf
C-Bynum\Williams/Mihm

Tried on the NBATrade Machine

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=981~1998~3002~2393~497~923&teams=12~12~12~13~13~13&te=&cash=

what you guys think? ok thanxs

LakersFirst

Jorema is a girl. OMG!!! I thought she was a dude. She is killing us/everybody on this blog ever AK and BK. Shes like one of my favorite person on this blog. Jorema sounds femine, but I was like no way she'll be a girl. Im not sexist or anything but she/you spitls fire than anybody on this blog by far. Damn you good.

The whole English as a second language thing is BS. I actually thinks she writes Jorema writes very well, and most off articulate her arguments very very well.

Jorema I just had to give you ur props, because you are the TRUTH. You split fire like Talib Kweli, and Talib speaks the truth man.

I too admire Jorema. As one of the few girls here, we have to stick together lol. Passion, and knowledge...all the qualities missing in our Laker team, sadly lol.

RE: Jordan Farmar in summer league. Dude, it's summer league. Greg Oden looked none too amazing, but come season I guarantee he'll be one of the top ROY candidates. Let's all take that with a grain of salt. But as for Jordan, I like him as a player, he works hard and is good at correcting his mistakes. Unfortunately I think his greatest weaknesses are not ones he can overcome (short, slow), but I would still be interested in how he plays this season.

Lakers First,

I don't think Corey Maggette is going anywhere. Yes, Kwame would help them replace SOME of Brand's defense, but his lack of offense will kill them. With Brand out, they're gonna have to have somebody step up and score the ball, and I thnk Maggette will be that guy.

exhelodrvr,

"I know that PJ prefers not to play rookies, but by halfway through the season last year, it was obvious that Smush wasn't going to make the "Step up" from the previous year that had been hoped for. And Farmar still didn't start, with Parker as his competition. That tells me a lot about Farmar's potential."

---

No. You said it yourself. It tells you something about Phil Jackson's reluctance to play rookies.

You can't judge a player's talent from summer league and you cant judge them from a few minutes here and
there during games. Even in those last two games of the season and the playoff games where he started
Farmar, PJ was only giving him about 20 minutes of game time, and splitting the rest of the time between
Smush and Shammond Williams and Sasha. Watch this year. PJ will give Farmar a longer leash, and
you'll see some big improvement.

LakersFirst,

Interesting trade, but I don't think the Clippers would go for it. Their #1 scorer is injured, so you're
proposing that they trade their #2 scorer for a non-scoring center to fill in at power forward until
Brand recovers?

Oh I get it, the idea is to suck as bad as possible so you can get a really high draft pick and then
add them to the team next year when Brand is healthy. Is that it?

summer sucks! im reading through this blog and its all speculation about who to pick up...who to trade...who to blame....say what you want about kobe....i have a love/hate relationship for the guy but maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan i miss watching him throwin turnaround js on people.......bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeck dog days of summer.....blows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Taos/Ex/LT Laker Fan (since you were all part of the conversation),

I know I've said this before, but I think the whole "Phil Jackson is reluctant to play rookies" thing is very exaggerated. Given a choice, all coaches would take a guy with experience over a rookie, unless it's a team clearly rebuilding or you're talking about a LeBron or Wade rook, which Phil has never had as a Laker coach. Phil also may not be big on starting rookies, but again, he's not alone among coaches with that sentiment. And there's a difference between not starting a rookie and flat out not playing him.

I think the fair question is whether or not he'll play them if they're worthy of time. And if you look at his time with the Lakers, I think the answer is yes. I mean, dude gave minutes to Mike freakin' Penberthy for most of the 2001 season. haha

Now if you ask me if Jackson has any interest in cultivating or nuturing rookies/young talent, that's a different story. I don't think that's really his MO. But that's not the same thing as refusing to play rookies simply because they're rookies, which I don't think Jackson is guilty of.

AK

KLBeast:

"was it the same toronto team that asked kobe for his autograph after the game?

sounds like a case of the Brett Farve and Strahan scanal."

Yeah... and I heard that the NBA put a special magnet inside the basketball during the 81 point game so that it went through the hoop every time Kobe took a jump shot.

And during the Lakers-Mavs game in 2006, Avery Johnson told his team to let Kobe outscore them by himself over the first three quarters so he could win a bet with Tim Donaghy.

And when Kobe scored a total of 110 points in back-to-back road games in March, he was taking an experimental drug that gives people eagle eyes, lightning reflexes and incredible endurance. Barry Bonds wanted some, but Kobe told him he'd have to get the home run record on his own.

Maybe Kobe will actually get some calls when going to the basket and being butchered !

Long Time Laker,
No, it says something about Farmar's abilities. We will likely see the same thing this season.

LakerTom,
"It’s funny how so many posters on the blog refuse to consider that our young players could make leaps that could make them much more valuable and help bridge the gap to become an elite team. "

You're wrong about that. No one here refuses to consider that they COULD make leaps. The smart posters here consider the LIKELIHOOD that they will make the necessary leaps. Two completely different concepts, which a lot of people don't seem to get.

weave-man, Long time

Works for both teams, as of now the clippers are screwed anyways! might as well have a better chance of getting the #1 pick in next yrs Draft ;)

LakersFirst

KL,
How naive can you get? But I guess that's the price of hatred. Your focus is limited to a single object in the universe.

"I wonder if kobe's invited to Yao's wedding? probably not cuz most guys don't invite a$$holes to their wedding..."

Read the article. Shaq is in China on a marketing campaign. Unlike Jerry Buss, who couldn't see the value (Pat Riley couldn't either, by the way and offered Shaq less), Li-Ning is willing to pay Shaq to promote their brand in China. It's so obvious that part of the deal is to show unbounded respect and admiration for Chinese athletes.

I guess you don't remember that embarrassing moment when Shaq mocked Yao for being Chinese. And maybe once he received his first check from Li-Ning Shaq forgot that incident as well.

My reading of the article is that Shaq is both begging and forcing Yao to invite him because he clearly states that he has no idea if he has been invited. But the whole deal with Li-Ning is to promote harmony between Shaq and the Chinese market.

This should be taken as a reminder that basketball is entertainment and marketing as a well as being a sport of skill. What athletes say and do in public when someone pays them to promote their products is of no importance and certainly doesn't prove anything at all. What they do on the court does, however, have meaning, so why not stay focused on that?

Oh, I guess the answer to my last question is that some people cannot focus on anything other than their own hatred.

I propose that everyone puts up their profile to stop the hater/lover accusations:

example:

Name: David Whang
From: Seoul, Korea (originally born and raised in L.A. and has a home there too)
Team Allegiance(s): Los Angeles Lakers and Los Angeles Lakers
Kobe-Jordan debate: Kobe is NOT better than Jordan
Kobe Lover/Hater?: More towards the Lover side I guess around 65%
Kobe Lover or Lakers Lover? : Lakers Lover
Kobe's fault to move Shaq?: Indirectly, Yes.
Kobe's fault that we aren't an elite team: Not really.
Disappointed with Kupchak? Not all blame should be placed on him but yes.
Disappointed with Jerry Buss? Never -- he won us so many things and he gets young girls at 70+ -- he's my role model.
Disappinted with Jimmy Buss? Yes
Starting a new franchise Kobe or Shaq?: Shaq
Who was more responsible for championships?: Both were vital but Shaq
Who should we have kept had we REALLY only had one choice?: Kobe. Shaq was in a declining state and even though we should have kept him, it was a good choice on the FO part for keeping young blood.
Who is the best player in the NBA currently: Kobe -- by a lot
Would you trade Kobe if you had to: Yes
Do you currently want to trade Kobe: No
Who is your favorite Laker of all time? Tie between Eddie Jones, Magic Johnson, Nick Van Exel, Kobe Bryant.
Can we advance past the first round with this lineup?: Dependent upon who we play.
Can we advance past the Suns with this lineup?: Probably not. Even though I hate the Suns and I truly hate to admit it. If Amare is out then yes but with Amare terrorizing our rebounding and the inside, it would be definitely hard.
Can we win the whole thing with the current lineup?: Very hard but possible.
How many wins will the Lakers win this year? 56 -- provided that we are healthy, we have a very good chance to win a lot of games.
What seed will the Lakers end up with? 4th or 5th -- with 56 games you'd think you'd get a better seed but I see the Spurs, Suns, Mavericks, and Houston all with very good records this year.

Oh yeah, and a couple more things:
Male/Female: (this is for Mamba24/10) Male
Chinese/Korean: Korean -- a lot of people mistake my last name for Chinese and therefore wonder if that is why I love Yao Ming. I love Yao's game - not his ethnicity.

So that is me. You get an inside look at who I am and where I stand (usually).
Note: I am a human being and at times get emotional and may say some things that deviate from the above list -- but for the most part, that is where I stand. I ask that others do the same list so that we can become more familiar with you guys -- and settle whether or not ONE IS TRULY A KOBE HATER OR LOVER

Lakers first

I would love to have magette here, unfortunetly Donald Sterling refuses to sign off on any Magette trade. All the reports now indicate that Dunlevey and Magette have made their peace. Although Sterling probably ordered Dunlevey to make peace. I quess with Magette able to opt out next year, if the Clippers get off to a horrible start, perhaps they would consider trading him. But to the Lakers? From a marketing stand point, I doubt they would probably not want to improve the number one team in their market. Nice trade though.

MH

Lake Show
"For example, one thing that people like to overlook between jordan and kobe is the intimidation factor. People were scared of MJ on the court. Nobody's scared of Kobe. they dont have that scared/respect for Kobe that they have for MJ. Sure Kobe can score, so can a lot of guys. But nobody backs down to him."

Exactly. I would have to agree with you on that. Jordan intimidation factor was present not only amount pro ballers but also college entrants feared him.

Long Time
"Take Kobe off of the 2000-2002 teams, and I doubt they make it past teams like Sacramento and Portland, not to mention San Antonio a team that is STILL making its mark."

I'm going to have to disagree with you. We had some pretty good role players on that team. Glen Rice, Fox, Horry, Grant, Harper were pretty good. Now, 2002 i can say Kobe did stand out that year.

David, as you have requested

Name: GUNNER "UGANDAN WARRIOR"
From: PARTS UNKNOWN
Team Allegiance(s): Team Basketball (Lakers only when Kobiatch is gone)
Kobe-Jordan debate: KOBIATCH CAN NOT HOLD JORDAN'S JOCK STRAP
Kobe Lover/Hater?: HEATER AS JOREMA WOULD PUT IT
Kobe Lover or Lakers Lover? : LAKERS
Kobe's fault to move Shaq?: 100% A FACT HE HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT.
Kobe's fault that we aren't an elite team: YES, IF YOU WANT TO BE THE MAN, YOU HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR TEAM LACK OF EFFORT.

Disappointed with Kupchak? NO. HE NEVER WAS A PRO GM. MORE LIKE A COLLEGE RECRUITER. HE EXCELS WHEN HE HAS A PLAYER CLOSING THE DEALS FOR HIM. IT'S NOT THAT BAD BUT WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A SHAQ ON YOUR TEAM, IT'S HARD TO GET PLAYERS TO COME TO LA.

Disappointed with Jerry Buss? YES - SHOULD NEVER TAKE ANY DISRESPECT FROM A PLAYER CALLING HIM AN IDIOT. AND HE MADE THE WRONG DECISION IN 2004. SHOULD HAVE BEEN KOBIATCH FOR WADE AND WE WOULD BE STILL WINNING TITLES. WE COULD OF MADE THE MOVE TO GET RID OF MRS. BIATCH IN 2003.

Disappinted with Jimmy Buss? NO - HE'S THE ONLY ONE STANDING UP TO KOBIATCH. HE KNEW WE WERE IN THE MESS BECAUSE OF BIG PLUTO.

Starting a new franchise Kobe or Shaq?: NO BRAINER - SHAQ

Who was more responsible for championships?: WHO WON THE FINALS MVP?

Who should we have kept had we REALLY only had one choice?: SHAQ. RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR ALMOST DYNASTY WITH 3 RINGS.

Who is the best player in the NBA currently: DWADE.
Would you trade Kobe if you had to: YES ONLY IF IT'S FOR DWADE
Do you currently want to trade Kobe: NO, I DON'T WANT THE CIRCUS TO END FOR AT LEAST TWO MORE YEARS. AT LEAST GIVE MRS. BIATCH A CHANCE TO REDEEM HIMSELF OR GO DOWN IN MEDIOCRITY.

Who is your favorite Laker of all time? MAGIC, WORTHY, SHAQ, COOPER

Can we advance past the first round with this lineup?: IF KOBIATCH COMES OUT AND PLAY TEAM BALL THERE'S A CHANCE TO GET IN THE TOP 5. IF WE ARE 6, 7, OR 8 SEED, GET READY FOR THE DRAFT AGAIN.

Can we advance past the Suns with this lineup?: HELL NO. WE HAVEN'T IMPROVED OUR SMALL FORWARD POSITION, AND THE SUNS WILL EAT US ALIVE WITH WALTON A