"All I'm saying is that Kobe is just as good as Jordan was, the only difference is their circumstances. Kobe could have done everything Jordan did given the same circumstances." --kobe apologist

circumstances being that MJ is a man and kobe is a little girl?

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ATTENTION BLOGGERS : TODAY IS DEDICATED TO JOREMA
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PAST HONOREES: MIKE TENIENTE, EDWIN GUECO, KLBEAST, GENERIC_ONE, A.K. J.J. FAITH,
LAKER TOM and SONNY BELFAST
NEXT HONOREE (?)
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Have you ever sat down to look at a movie and after about a minute you stop and say I have no idea what I just saw.
Or have you sat down to watch a movie and after a minute say yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. Well with Jorema
you can get both reactions at the same time after reading one of his/her posts. ( As an aside we really need to find
some way to differentiate if we are blogging with male or females on the Blog. I mean names like Edwin Gueco and
Laker Tom you know are male and names like Laker Gurl and Faith you know are female but other than that we are
just taking a leap in the dark. I am by the way a male which you should all know by my fictitious tale of my
Zombie/Vampire former girl friend.) Sorry Jorema for interrupting this dedication to your day. Jorema may I be so
bold to state is the poet laureate of the Blog with all apologies to G1. Some of Jorema’s lines can leave you amused,
bemused, confused all at the same time, but they always make you come back for more. You can be arguing with
Jorema about a post and go back and reread it and have to go back and say you know Jorema you’re right. And for
all you HATERS out there Jorema is no HEATER!! Most of you may not admit it ANDREW Z, BEAST, MAMBA24/10 but
you might learn a thing or two by reading Jorema’s post. I have and I admit it. I Know, I Know, I could learn a hell of
a lot by reading anybody’ post. Jorema is one of the most dedicated Laker fans around and yet I still can’t say for
sure just what Jorema’s stand on KOBE is. At times Jorema is KOBE’S most vocal supporter, yet there is no
hesitation in criticizing Kobe when warranted. The Blog is a much healthier place for having Jorema as part of
the family and so today Jorema, Poet Laureate, basketball critic extraordinaire and fine upstanding human being
on this August 15, 2007 we salute you. The Blog is better for your being so here’s to you JOREMA, enjoy your day.
JOREMA TODAY JOREMA TOMORROW JOREMA FOREVER
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BLOG LINES OF THE WEEK:
AK and BK should get Pulitzers compared to T.J. and the loser writers on the Times staff. LAKER TOM

You and all those dishonest sellers of false comments, won't prosper out of this blog, JOREMA

you are the incarnation of whom? Just return to your old self.... JOREMA

we are all so much more complex than the persona we project on this blog, someone may indeed be an
a$$hole or be full of crap, but can you really tell by what others post who they really are? HUBBIT

". Your one "MFer" away from being the next Mike T. ANDREW Z

Great teams can rise above injuries to succeed. Our Lakers, on the other hand, are one or two injuries away
from being a lottery team ... HAL9000

Bynum and Mihm at C is as solid as anyone else in the league, there are no more dominating Centers TAOSHUM

. Let's be honest...the FO could have done what little they've done from home, setting by the pool, with a drink in one
hand and the remote control in the other. TELLITLIKEITIS

If you really don't want anyone except the addressee to respond to a post that you place on a blog, try email. EXHELODRVR
Grown men don't need to call each other every other day to validate their friendship. Rocky
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Members at heart
(1) Bob
(2) Faith
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AND NOW ROLL CALL
(1) FAITH, MIKE T. TALIQ, Edwin Gueco,, KEIFO, Mamba24Fan4Life, Fan of Mamba, Wolf,
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Juno, LakerLifer, C.S. JOVA, BLAZE1BX, Tripgame3, TSPHERE, SIXONEZERO,
Mfeige, Reggie, Hollywood Jack, Reality Check Time, Jack In Hollywood, SLO Gal
JONINJAPAN(INCANADA), VIOLATER, LT Laker Fan, , KATE, TROY, Mainor, Caesar
JEFF, ANDY B., SWANWORLD, PUPLE&GOLD_4EVA, BENNY BLANCA,CS in Virg
EMMA, TIM IN SYDNEY RISING STAR, LakerBake, JuanMan888,Blkthght06,
Any_One_mouse, 10milliondollarZen, Shiva, Laker_Hopeful, LakerDawg, East Nyboer
,Ghost of Spiderman, Steve in Denver Guy Owanlele, Lincoln Laker, Houston Laker
MITCH KUPCHAK, JERRY BUSS, PHIL JACKSON, KOBE BRYANT, CLEON
Marc Gasol, Sun Yue, Shamond, Williams, Ronny Turiaf, V. Radmanovic,
Maurice Evans, Lamar Odom, Derek Fisher, Luke Walton, Brian Cook,
Kwame Brown, Andrew Bynum, Coby Karl, Chris Mihm, Sasha Vujacic
Jordan Farmar, Jarvis Critterton, JERMAINE ONEAL???, FAITH
ALL TOGETHER NOW:
WE ARE THE FREAKIN LA LAKERS THE WINNERS OF 14 NBA TITLES
THE HOME OF WILT, KAREEM, GEORGE MIKAN, SHAQ, MAGIC, KOBE,
ELGIN BAYLOR, JERRY WEST, PAT RILEY, JAMES WORTHY, SILK
COACHED BY THE 9 TIME TITLE WINNER PHIL (9RINGS) JACKSON AND
NO ONE AND NOTHING WILL EVER DIVIDE OR CONQUER Posted by: Mamba24/1

What kind of value could the Lakers get for Kobe?

Part 2: Straight trade with New York

Presumably if the Lakers are trading away Kobe, they want to build around Bynum, so they
wouldn't want to bring in a Center and slow his development. I'll go with Randolph as
the better straight trade with New York.

$$$
Side deal: Lakers trade Brian Cook for a trade exception
$$$

Lakers send Kobe Bryant and Vlad Radmanovic to New York

New York sends the following to the Lakers:

+Zach Randolph
+David Lee
+Wilson Chandler
+Nate Robinson
+sign & trade Demetrius Nichols for salary matching
+two first round draft picks

Assuming the Lakers trade off Nate Robinson for a future draft pick and waive Coby Karl,
their team looks like this after the trade:

C - Bynum, Brown, Mihm
PF - Randolph, Lee, Turiaf
SF - Odom, Walton, Nichols
SG - Evans, Chandler, Vujacic
PG - Fisher, Farmar, Crittendon

Total salary before the trade = $70,532,742
(ESPN trade machine had the salaries I was missing)
Total salary after the trade = $60,425,490

So even with Z-Bo's bigger contract, dumping Radmanovic gets the Lakers a 10 million
dollar drop in salary the first year.

In terms of positions, they're the same as before the trade at center and point guard.
Getting Randolph lets the Lakers slide Odom over to starting small forward, and with
David Lee and Luke Walton coming off the bench at the forwards, both positions improve
a lot. Shooting guard is still a big dropoff, but Evans can hold down the fort until the Lakers
acquire a good SG through trade or free agency (or in the possibility that Chandler or
Evans blossoms into a quality starting SG).

$$$$$ Next Summer

In summer of 2008, here are the players the Lakers would still have under contract (assuming
as usual that Mihm opts out):

C - Bynum
PF - Randolph, Lee
SF - Odom, Walton, Nichols
SG - Chandler
PG - Fisher, Farmar, Crittendon

restricted free agent: Vujacic
unrestricted free agents: Turiaf, Brown, Mihm, Evans

At that point, they'd have $38,988,739. That would give them a whopping 20 million
in cap space -- probably good enough to bring in two "first big contract" guys or one
legit all-star who wants out of where they are. Plus they'd probably have enough left
over to re-sign one or two of their 5 free agents.

$$$

Summer of 2009, Bynum, Odom, and Lee would be up for re-signing.

$$$

Variants:

If the Lakers took Balkman instead of Lee, he might be a hair less talented, but
Renaldo's contract lasts longer, so they'd keep a PF spot occupied for longer for less.
If they want to settle for less cap space, the Lakers could bring back Jamal Crawford
in the deal and he could fill the SG spot for a few years. Other possible players in
the mix for consideration would be Fred Jones, Dan Dikau, Randolph Morris,
and Mardy Collins.

JJ,

on the kobe/shaq and MJ/shaq question, i would argue that MJ and shaq would have co-existed better than kobe and shaq because the thing that MJ has over kobe is the mental capacity to see the big picture. as lakertom would say, MJ isn't "myopic" in his quest to the the most dominant ever before the real Most Dominant Ever (shaq) arrived.

Somewhere along the way, kobe forgot the golden f*cking rule, to be legendary, you have to do it in the playoffs, not the razzle dazzle of the regular season. Case in point, anybody talking about how great Domnic Wilkins was? The playoffs is where legends are made. some on this blog knock shaq, but shaq's got 3 more finals MVPs than kobe. the kobe loyalist can argue about the "yeah, buts" until their blue in the face, but the reality is that shaq has 3 finals MVP and Jordan has 6. hell, even Wade has one and Wade is still a budding star.

kobe has none and will probably not get the opportuntiy the day he chased shaq out of town. too bad really cuz kobe was on the cusp of being a true "legend" but you gotta do it in the playoffs.

KOBE DID IT
Stock market down Kobe did it.
No Iraq rebound. Kobe did it.
Space shuttle gets a leak Kobe did it.
Housing Market gets weak. Kobe did it.
Price of gas to high? Kobe did it.
Karl Rove said goodbye Kobe did it.
We don’t get KG. Kobe did it
Is that a crooked referee? Kobe did it
He hit 81 again. Kobe did it.
I think I’m gonna grin. Kobe did it.

Who should be the starting five for the USA Team?

HERE'S MINE!

Howard
Stoudamire
James
Bryant
Kidd

or

Howard
Durant
Anthony
Bryant
Kidd

My 12 would be ..

Howard/Chandler
Durant/Stoudamire/Bosh
James/Anthony/Prince
Bryant/Miller
Kidd/Williams

Long time Laker fan!

Summer of 2009, Bynum, Odom, and Lee would be up for re-signing

At that point, they'd have $38,988,739. That would give them a whopping 20 million
in cap space -- probably good enough to bring in two "first big contract" guys or one
legit all-star who wants out of where they are
================
I WILL NOT RESIGN ODOM...... AND GO AFTER KOBE BRYANT HARD! So if you want him back, solution to your future problem, DO NOT TRADE HIM.

KOBE BRYANT will be the so dominant in team USA that thinking of trading him will be a big JOKE!

Kobe while playing with team USA with all the all-stars and great players is still their best:

BEST SHOOTER
BEST DEFENDER
BEST SLASHER
BEST PASSER AFTER KIDD
BEST REBOUNDER AFTER HOWARD
BEST STEAL
BEST GO TO GUY TO WIN CLOSE GAMES
BEST EFFORT FOR 48 MINUTES EVERY GAME AND EVERY PRACTICE
BEST TEAMMATE TO PUMP UP EVERYONE IN THE TEAM
BEST ALL AROUND PLAYER
BEST PERIMETER PLAYER
BEST BALL HANDLING PLAYER AFTER PG POSITION
BEST 3 POINT SHOOTER
BEST MID RANGE SHOOTER

BEST OF ALL ....HE IS A LAKER!

Could ANYONE who knows Andrew Bynum have him read this and step up his training :o)

“I can’t stop playing basketball," Stoudemire said. "I can’t stop lifting weights. I want my body to be shredded and my game on point.”

Looking lean and limber, Stoudemire credits his eating and exercise habits for his sleek new frame.

“Chicken, fish and turkey," he added. "I think that keeps me very lean. A lot of people are saying that I lost weight, but I haven’t. I’m still 245. But I’m chiseled.”

For five weeks, Stoudemire maintained a grueling training regimen that began with weight lifting in the morning, individual skill development in the afternoon, Pilates in the early evening and pro-am league games at night. He followed this program five days a week, allowing his body the weekends to recuperate.

When running through basketball drills, the 24-year old didn’t just concentrate on developing one pet move. Instead, he took a comprehensive approach in hopes of sculpting a more well-rounded game. Ballhandling, off-the-dribble shooting and 3-point shooting were just some of the areas he targeted.

The reason Kobe cannot be traded effectively is that he is more valuable to the Lakers than any other team. This is not a comment on his game or his reputation around the league; rather, it's a comment on how others would react to the Lakers making him available. He's assumed to be untouchable. By making it clear that he was available, the Lakers would be admitting automatically that something physical, personal or interpersonal was wrong. No one pays full price for damaged goods.

It's like an old-fashioned poison pill strategy: By lashing out, Kobe virtually guaranteed that the Lakers would not get full value; this forces the Lakers to build around Kobe rather than look for an even trade (there are very few players of Kobe's stature in their prime).

All of this was enabled by the Lakers' previous decision to give Kobe the no-trade. If this clause ends up leveraged against LA, you can't blame Kobe; you can only blame management for negotiating poorly.

Edwin,

Why do you care about tickets and jerseys????? Why does any fan here care about tickets and jerseys? Do you have a minoritiy owner stake in the Lakers????

You guys immediately become defendents of the FO when saying not to trade Kobe because of the "tickets and jerseys" yet blast the FO for keeping Kobe only for the "tickets and jerseys". So which one is it???

Trade Kobe, and get a real team, and then real fans will buy someone else's jersey and still go buy tickets.

KLBeast

First let me say that my initial question should have involved MJ going to the Lakers like Kobe did and not still going to Chicago. That would eliminate the Pippen factor. I should have also stated that Kobe would take the place of MJ becoming Air Kobe. Now having those two things factored in....what do you think?

I must admit that i would still believe that MJ would have been a better fit because he had more of a friendly attitude of the court. On the court, he would have been harder to deal with than Kobe was with Shaq. However, MJ is the type that he will punch you in the face during practice but then walk up to you after practice and invite you out to dinner and drinks. Shaq would respond to something like that as would the other teammates have (maybe not Fisher). However, Kobe wouldn't have done that.

Part of the difference stems from those 3 years of college. MJ was able to learn how to play with more experienced players than himself like Worthy and Perkins (at the time), whereas Kobe was hit with it in the pros. Jordan also had to deal with being friends with these guys off the court in college whereas Kobe never had that experience. Plus, MJ and Shaq would have been Frats...both having pledged Omega Psi Phi. That is significant and worth noting. Shaq is so much about relationships and bonding, whereas Kobe is more coldly about winning. On the court it can be very useful....although it can kill a team at the same time....as it did with the Lakers.

Your point about Kobe understanding the playoffs as the time you shine is so wrong. Where were you when Kobe was hitting all of those final shots during the 3 titles? Where were you when Kobe was taking over a playoff game in the fourth quarter or overttime? Where were you when Kobe was playing through an injury and seemingly willing his team to victory in a crucial playoff game? He understands that....he just trying to also make up for lost time with the regular season awards. You fail to realize Kobe had no scoring titles, NBA MVP awards or most of the other regualr season awards while playing with Shaq. No one was going to give it to Kobe over Shaq even if he had been the more productive one at any of those times. Furthermore, Kobe still craves those awards because it is all apart of his desire to leave the game as the undisputed best ever. I honestly don't see a problem with that. Although Russell has the most titles ever, people say MJ is the best ever. Kobe knows that and thus realizes that even if he had just kept winning titles with Shaq it wouldn't have raised him any. IT would have raised Shaq! I have to say that I understand that mindset.

In closing, I personally would rather be a Robert Horry anyday, but that's because my personality is much different. However, for guys that have the ability and personality, they have a burning and unquenchable desire to be more.

Jim gray is such a loser; the other Kobe pan.

Today he asks Amare, "who do you enjoy playing with the most? Kobe or Kevin Durant"

what kind of question that is only looking for a lead in is that???

by the way, amare's answer : Jason Kidd.

Hey AK, with Kobe being in one of the new ads of the NBA, I may have to take back that whole "nba" would rather not promote Kobe argument haha.

From ESPN's Chris Sheridan:

Andre Iguodala knows that when LeBron James drives left he tends to pull up and shoot a jumper, and when James goes to his right he likes to take the ball to the hole.

When defending Paul Pierce, he knows Pierce's favorite move is to jab right, go left and then pull up for a jumper. With Vince Carter, Iguodala likes to get up and get physical. And with Kobe Bryant, he knows which way Bryant prefers to go, but he's not giving that little secret away.

"If I tell you, everybody will know," Iguodala said.

KLBeast
"i have the same view on kobe. the dumb-a$$ know-it-all kid. always have been and still is. remember a 24-somthing kobe calling shaq a "child". in my mind, having somone my junior calling me a "child" is fighting words. i'm surprised that shaq didn't kicked the bejesus out of kobe. remember kobe calling raja bell (my hero) a "kid" when bell was kobe's senior by 2 years? same MO (method of operation)."

You're exactly right. That's apart of his background and how he was raise. That's one lesson you learn from family. Never to disrespect your elders. Something young kids today laugh at.

Steve in Denver
"It continues to amaze me how haters like you continue to read thier own feelings and thoughts into everything KB24 does. I saw KB24 on Kimmel and it was completely uneventful. To jump on his prenunciation of some doppy soccer player is an embarrassing show od cards for you."

#1 thank you for your response. #2 you don't know me. #3 If you want to classify me as a hater, that's your perogative. But, I'm calling it how i saw Kobe on the show and I know others would think the same.

Jorema,
"1s round you are the incarnation of whom?"

What are you talking about kid? Where did the incarnation come from. Lay off the crackpipe.

Kobe Apologist
"All I'm saying is that Kobe is just as good as Jordan was, the only difference is their circumstances. Kobe could have done everything Jordan did given the same circumstances"

Great statement! Key word "Could". Had he gone about is differently 4-5 years ago. But, I'm going to give you this. There's still a possibility but he still needs to learn those elements in the 4th quarter on how to get your team over the barrier in those 2-3 points game deciders.That's where Jordan became Jordan.

For those of you that are already doubting Jordan Farmar.

Here's a little review that John Hollinger wrote about Deron Williams during his rookie season:

"Come back, Carlos Arroyo, all is forgiven. The Jazz are saying the right things about their bungled choice of Williams over Paul this June, but good heavens, look at their actions. Last week, Jerry Sloan went to a lineup with two points guards, and didn't choose Williams for either spot. It wasn't like they had Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson lying around either -- Williams is now backing up Keith McLeod and Milt Palacio. That's what 38 percent shooting with few offsetting positives will get you."

I would suggest a bit more patience with Jordan. Don't be quick to trade him off for a washed
up power forward from the Timberpups. Farmar was excellent at the college level, and I feel
if he'd have stayed for his junior and senior years and continued to develop, he'd have definitely
been a lottery pick. Get him the sort of minutes he deserves this year and you'll find that he's
a composed leader on the floor who makes his teammates better. He's also a very intelligent
player, and with Fisher mentoring him, I think he'll be just what the Lakers need at the point
for years to come.

I don't think Randolph could be included in any trade as packaged with other players for six months after he's become a Knick as per the players union rules on trades -he'd half to be traded straight up until december. So if an off season trade with the Knicks would happen, it would have to include I guess Curry ( not a good thing) and then Lee and others- really not that tempting for the Lakers, I'd assume it would be something like Curry, Lee, Crawford and Balkman - I don't know, perhaps good young players there, but -----

The obvious team that has the pieces for a trade is the Bulls - at least if Kobe were to be moved in the off season. Dueng, Thomas, Noah, Heinrich is where I'd start as a reasonable offer- and if that type of thing were to accepted the Lakers, I'm guessing, just through their inaction and Kobe's vibe, would do the deal -I don't know if the Bulls would though, frankly.

Other trades that concievably would make sense, would be a trade to New Jersey perhaps, Carter and Jefferson for Kobe, but that also couldn't happen until December because Carter opted out and then resigned as a free agent with NJ.

So straight up trades are doubtful before the season starts.

And also, I'm not sure the Bulls are that interested in gutiting its nucleas as I'm not sure the Bulls are that interested in gutiting its nucleas. So I'd imagine that Isiah is looking for a deal: something, perhaps that has Gilbert Arenas ending up in LA.

All this I think is relevant because if your really look at the journalism that's been covering the Bryant situation, hate to say it, but Bucher is the only person who has a source in Bryant or a source in anyone really. No one seems to be speaking to the front office - they pontificate that Kobe can't be traded blah blah blah and that Jeanie Buss said that they can't trade him...

The way I see it, the Lakers have accepted Kobe's stance, Bucher is reporting Kobe's stance and the team is waiting for a deal that makes sense and will do nothing to substanionally jeopordize their future to appease Kobe.....

Sure Kobe can hold out, and maybe he will, but I think the team won't challenge him, won't wait it out. They don't want a circus - they'll make a move, maybe he'll sit out until December, but they'll move him.

The problem is, finding a deal through the specific nba rules and what not that makes the most sense, and it will take until the fall.

Anti-Kobites:

Is there another way to spend Kobe's salary and get closer to a ring?

That's the fundamental issue; not whether or not you are personally offended by Kobe's attitude, actions, or words. Each of those things can be filed under "irrelevant."

Short of getting, say, Tim Duncan, (who, though an effective ball player, is a vile, brain-sucking zombie), there is not a better place for the Lakers to park Kobe's salary than in Kobe's bank account. For this reason, he needs to remain the "constant" while the Lakers' organization works the variables.

The D,
"Is there a team that believes it is a Kwame away from reaching the next level? "

If Kwame were on a team coached by anyone other than PJ, he would be an all-star. Who wouldn't want him?

JJ

Great topic of discussion on the if MJ would have joined an established shaq in LA. i guess this the best conversation we'll have for a while, so kudos for brining it up.

i agree with you that had MJ joined shaq, the circumstances would have been a little different becuase of the college background for both players and the directness in MJ over kobe. in other words, if MJ had a problem with shaq, they'll settle it man-to-man, then go for drinks later. i think shaq would respect that too growing up in a military family. i think shaq disrespected kobe because kobe was the typicall snot-nosed kid who's very good at doing things, then rubs it in other's faces. i don't think the badmouthing helped either.

as for kobe's legacy, i think kobe was being short-sighted by thinking the best way to secure his legacy is to make shaq disappear. magic was able to secure his legacy with kareem still around. don't you think that had shaq stuck around around, at about 2005 to 2006 kobe would be the undisputed #1? i think yes.

on the question of kobe's playoff performance during 00-04, no question kobe was intrumental, but can you think of any MJ moments? for example, the play when MJ dropped the J over Craig Elho or the Bryon Russel pushofff? that's what i mean my legendary performances. there are plenty of guys who've had great performances in the playoffs, but "legendary" stuff is hard to come by. LBJ's performance against the Piston's in 2007 is an example. i'll remember that for a long, long time.

Bogs Adornado

"BEST OF ALL ....HE IS A LAKER!"

So what happens if Team USA doesn't in the gold since we have the "best player on the planet" and no more excuses on teammates? i guess the next excuse is going to be the international rules suck and is unfair to kobe.

10milliondollarzen,

"Dueng, Thomas, Noah, Heinrich is where I'd start as a reasonable offer"

----

WOO HOO! If Chicago would go for that deal, I'd be begging the Lakers to take it. Deng could start
at small forward, Hinrich could take over the starting shooting guard spot, Thomas would beef up
the power forward spot, and Noah would be an excellent backup center, so they could get rid of
Kwame without worrying about depth at center.

Seriously though, Deng+Thomas+Hinrich is probably more of the Bulls core players than they'd
be willing to give up, even for Kobe. You might be able to squeeze them for Hinrich, Gordon,
and Thomas, or you might be able to get Deng & others, but I don't think they'd give up both
Luol Deng and Kirk Hinrich. I could be wrong. To be honest though, if the Lakers could get
the trade you suggested, it would make them much better next year, and give them two young
players to continue building for the future.

1st round,

by now you must know as soon as you dont hail Kobe Bryant the best at anything, that somehow youre not a true laker fan or something of that matter. Youre not allowed to think broadly.

For example, one thing that people like to overlook between jordan and kobe is the intimidation factor. People were scared of MJ on the court. Nobody's scared of Kobe. they dont have that scared/respect for Kobe that they have for MJ. Sure Kobe can score, so can a lot of guys. But nobody backs down to him.

And for guys like Derek, who say that Kobe is better than Jordan, or that Jordan didnt face competition, really need to get real. I dont know what NBA games they watched in the 1990s, or what team. Actually I highly doubt that they watched any of those guys. The just know reggie, penny, heard the names of Clyde and Hakeem and Ewing, but have no idea that some of those guys are part of the 50 greatest players of all time list.

To say that the Lakers have played great compeition during their title runs comparable to MJ is defintely showing lack of knowledge. Now yes, for a year or two, the Spurs and Kings had very nice seasons, but they were hardly a team for the ages. The Knicks of the 90s were competive for a long time. And no, Im not talking about Larry Johnson, Allan Houston, Marcus Camby. Thats who you seem to think about. What about Charles Oakley the enforcer, Patrick Ewing, Anthony Mason , John Starks, Derek Harper Buck Wiliams, and other guys Im not remembering. Those guys had heart, guts and toughness. No team the Lakers played had that same type of mentality. The closest to that team would be the Ben Wallace led Pistons of their championship run. And guess what? They ran over the Lakers and ended their 3 season dynasty.

The one team that the Lakers struggled with, the Pacers in their first NBA finals, was a leftover remant of their earlier pacers. Reggie was exiting his prime, Jalen Rose was still decent. But they probably are even worse without a miracle auston croshure game. Unless you think Croshere is ultimate competition, then you know tha team was very thin.

but trust me, those werent the marc jackson, reggie of old, derek mckey, rik smits, haywood workman Pacers (hey does anybody know who those players are)

See it seems to me that people making the MJ to Kobe comparisons either overlook, have short term memory, or simply dont watch basketball.

Farmar couldn't dominate summer league competition after playing a full season in the show. BIG red flag warning. Also, Farmar still doesn't look strong enough to hoist 3 pointers, a few of the shots I saw were very weak, almost looking like he had hucked it from half court instead of the 3 point line. He needs to hit the weights and he needs to do what Gilbert Arenas is doing this summer. Set a goal of making however many 3 pointers from different points for the days remaining before training camp. Every day, make say, 100 total 3 pointers from one side and another 100 3 pointers from the other side, every day, day after day, get that burn in his arms to build up strength because right now... he doesn't have to be defended by anyone, they'll let him take those shots all day, which kind of hurts his ability to fake a shot and drive to the basket, where he is great at dishing to the open man for an easy shot.

Also, and... I'll say this carefully... was Farmar "concerned" about a little competition at the PG spot from Crittenton? I dunno, it just seemed, in summer league at least, that Farmar didn't exactly embrace the idea that he had to compete for the starting PG slot, or maybe I was just reading a little bit too much into things.