Eddie Money had two tickets to paradise
The Celtics now have one Ticket, a purchase made with the intention of traveling to the same destination that Mr. Money had in mind. Needless to say, this is pretty gosh darn huge. "Big enough to make David Stern stop weeping about Oden and Durant playing for two teams nobody ever sees" huge. "Big enough to make Bill Simmons stop weeping about acquiring Ray Allen" huge, especially considering Jesus Shuttlesworth reportedly played a big role in pitching Beantown to Garnett. Hell, it's even "big enough to overshadow the Lakers signing Coby Karl" huge.
OK, the acquiring of George Karl's undrafted son might have flown under the radar under any circumstances (although it's actually a more inspirational story than KG getting traded). But when it comes to inspiring Laker fans to sing a tune with an excellent guitar riff, the newest Laker likely won't cut the mustard. Karl's presence also appears a long shot to prevent Kobe from licking old wounds, a reaction that could make things rather unpleasant. Thus, it begs the question of where to go from here.
Well, for fans, a trip to El Segundo armed with flaming torches and a cry for Mitch Kupchak's head is unwarranted. I'm not being a front-office apologist, just realistic. Disappointed as I am to see Garnett land elsewhere, I don't think this situation is reasonably on Kupchak's shoulders. By all accounts, an aggressive pitch was made for Garnett. A failure to put him in purple and gold didn't seem due to a reluctance to part with chips, simply a lack of said chips. I've said a zillion times that I didn't think the Lakers had the pieces to make KG a Laker. Here's proof positive. Sorry, but Boston's offer was better than the Lakers' best counter. Compare the particulars and it's obvious:
Kwame Brown represents an expiring contract worth 9 million bucks. Theo Ratliff's is worth 11.7. I'm hardly qualified to teach mathematics at MIT. I can barely do long division. But I remain confident in my belief that 11.7 is more than 9. Bynum is a promising post player. Al Jefferson is a promising post player who's more developed than Drew. That doesn't mean Jefferson's a lock to end up the better player, but it does mean he's pretty a tough commodity to refuse, especially in a holdout for a less-established big man. In addition to draft picks, the Wolves receive youngsters ranging from "all upside" (Gerald Green) to "potentially solid role player" (Ryan Gomes) to "soon to be blessed with a lot of free time to shop for new guns" (Sebastian Telfair). All contracts end in 2008, providing a team that won't likely be good for a few seasons some low-risk, short-term options. And since they won't be solid anytime soon, why take on Lamar Odom's big contract and allow his PT to stymie the growth of Corey Brewer? Even with the Lakers theoretically willing to take Marko Jaric or Mark Blount's bad salaries, the Celts package makes more sense for a rebuilding team. If you wanna blame Kupchak for not having the requisite pieces on hand, fair enough. But otherwise, you're basically blaming him for not being able to con Kevin McHale into taking a clearly less-desirable package. His moves over the years show McHale may be dumb, but the man ain't stupid.
Assuming Kupchak can enter his office without a private security detail, what should he do while at his desk? Hopefully not sign off on a panic move that shows fans (and a certain shooting guard) that he's willing to "make noise." Yeah, noise often reeks of "bold and decisive." But noise also typically precedes a thumping headache. The powers that be are already gobbling Excedrin. No need to willingly end up in rehab for an aspirin addiction. Jermaine O'Neal, for example, is the likely name to pop up in rumor mills. Last time he was sewing circle fodder, the deal involved exchanging Odom and Bynum (unless you're counting the Odom-Bynum-Brown for JO-Troy Murphy proposal, but I don't since it was asinine to even consider). Landing JO gives the Lakers a bigger "name" and certainly brings the much-ballyhooed "noise." But would it also bring bring the funk? I don't think so.
JO might shore up the D a bit in between nursing injuries (which happens quite a bit, for those keeping score). But I don't think he'd transform the Laker hoop into a fortress, either. In the meantime, you lose what LO provides the offense, especially in turns of it running smoothly. Yes, offense isn't chief among Laker concerns, but that's assuming it functions at peak capacity. Remove LO from the equation for a less versatile option and you may downgrade the O more than the D actually improves. JO is a more consistent scorer, but this still strikes me as a sideways (and expensive) move, and I don't know if it's worth trading two of three pieces with any value simply because it represents "bold action." Driving headfirst in a brick wall at 90 mph is bold. Doesn't mean I'm itching to do it. And save the theoretical move for KG, the only way the Lakers were "one player away" was through adding a high-quality player to the mix, not swapping talent. If the Lakers pick up a quality player to accompany Kobe and JO, that's perhaps another story. But I'd hate to see the team dig itself further into a hole so fans know they're "serious about building a winner." "Serious" and "smart" are two different things. I prefer the latter.
Does that mean I wanna stand pat? No. The front office should aggressively go after any good player on the market and those reportedly untouchable. But I don't think they should move heaven and earth, no questions asked. Especially if the primary motive is making Kobe happy, since the odds are low, anyway. Garnett was the guy he wanted. That's no longer a possibility. I don't picture any other moves that'll automatically put a smile on his face. Except, of course, trading him. Which, as I've said before, I think the Lakers should seriously consider. Not because I "want" to trade Kobe. Nobody really "wants" to trade the league's best player still in his prime. I'd much rather put a team around him, all things being equal. But this isn't about what I want. It's about what I think is best for the Lakers, and sometimes what you want to do and what you should do are two very different things.
If you can't utilize Kobe's abilities to their fullest by building around him, there's no real point to having him here, especially if he's counting down the minutes (perhaps in a vocal and distracting fashion) until he can bolt. You're simply avoiding the inevitable, and procrastinating could limit whatever returns are possible for Kobe. Like it or not, the Lakers may be in a position where rebuilding is the unattractive but necessary solution. If that's the case, you're better off obtaining (and retaining) the most pieces and options to make it happen. No Laker will fetch more loot than Kobe. Were I Mitch Kupchak, I'd keep my ear to the ground for possibilities. But if I'm hearing nothing but silence, I would approach Kobe and lay everything on the table. If we acquiesce to your wishes, will you widen the list of reportedly acceptable destinations beyond "Chicago" and "Chicago" (although the Bulls could very well be more interested in a Kobe trade these days, now that Boston's a legit three-headed monster)? As stubborn as he can be and as much as he hates relinquishing control, Kobe might be open to a compromise focused around speeding up his wishes. Or he might take that stance as a sign of weakness and relish having the Lakers by the short and curlies, aping how Shaq handled his trip out of town. But if I had to guess, a cooperative olive branch is more likely to help than hurt. And it may be the best move for the franchise (if a bitter pill for fans to swallow).
In any case, I'd be lying if I said I'm not curious about what comes next. I'm already exhausted thinking about how many hours I'm gonna be chained to my laptop writing about it. But curious nonetheless.
-- AK
The D,
"Because someone has to control the inmates in this asylum."
Yes; after awhile, the drugs lose their effectiveness.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 31, 2007 at 04:03 PM
Ex,
How about that Greek Baby Shaq? I heard he was pushing 400 pounds. Baklava will do that to you.
I almost don't want to trade Kobe for expirings and draft picks for the simple reason that it banks a lot on free agency, and free agency is set up now where it makes sense for the best players to stay with their teams. What ends up happening is teams pay max dollars for second tier guys (see Rashard Lewis). If you trade Kobe I would like to see two All-Star type guys (at least one certified All-Star), and a couple of draft picks/young prospects.
Kobe to Atlanta for Joe Johnson, Al Horford, and Lorenzen Wright works under the CBA. We get a SG who gives us at least 75% of what Kobe did, Al Horford who is the top PF prospect in the league and should be able to contribute right away, and an expiring contract in Wright who is still able to contribute.
With Wright and Kwame's deals, Bynum, and two PG prospects, we would look to be decent players at the deadline. JJ is young enough to be part of a psuedo-rebuilding and be a good player now. LO, Johnson, Horford, Crittendon, Bynum make up a good young core, on par with the Seattle's, Portland's and Minnesota's.
There are options but it's going to take a few steps, not one deal.
Posted by: Andrew Z | July 31, 2007 at 04:04 PM
AK, I thought you would not answer my post!!!
Like KLBeast and rest of the cronies on this board, you pick and choose which post you want to answer so can win the argument with your flawed logic!!!
You see it is not easy picking so called teams to trade Kobe to and then use some logic work out if the trade will actually work. All those who which to apply for post of GM, why don't come up with a realistic trade scenario and e-mail the Buss, I am sure he could use the help!!!
Aaarrrhhhh!!
Angry_Laker
Posted by: Angry_Laker | July 31, 2007 at 04:05 PM
pruple&gold 4 eva:
"why do we have so many guards"
Because someone has to control the inmates in this asylum.
thats a good one! "D"
Posted by: pruple&gold 4 eva | July 31, 2007 at 04:10 PM
Angry Laker,
Dude, I know you're angry, but settle down. I'm busy doing other work. This isn't my only job. And since I don't have a clue which teams outside of say, Chicago, NY and Phoenix Kobe would theoretically even be willing to play for, I don't have time to waste going through each team thinking of a trade scenario. Unless he's willing, they can't trade him there, anyway. Why bother trying to come up with a Hornets scenario if I have absolutely no inkling that it could even become a possibility?
To answer your other question, I have no idea what Chicago is doing (if anything) to offset KG going east. But it wouldn't shock me if they'd be a little more open to trading for Kobe now. The Celts are a legit Eastern threat right now. They might want to do something sooner rather than later to battle KG-Pierce-Allen.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | July 31, 2007 at 04:11 PM
" And since they won't be solid anytime soon, why take on Lamar Odom's big contract and allow his PT to stymie the growth of Jefferson, Green and/or Corey Brewer? "
Huh? You missed the boat on this one AK - if Odom was going to Minne,
then Jefferson and Green wouldn't be. It's one or the other.
Posted by: Long time Laker fan | July 31, 2007 at 04:17 PM
AK,
Thank you for the breakdown. Although i tried stating similar points the last few days, it seemed as though the bloggers' blame kept landing in Kupchak's lap.
It was a good deal for Boston and Minnesota. Although i can't stand McHale or Ainge, both made good basketball decisions in this trade. Kupchak didn't have a shot with what we had to offer.
We'll see how the remainder of the summer goes. I'd like to think that Kobe can remain patient (and quiet) to allow the front office as much leverage as possible while exploring other options. I know a lot of people disagree, but i still think Artest should be target number one. I just don't see Ron Ron and Bibby coexisting another season. They just aren't complimentary to each other. Kobe, Artest and LO would make for some good basketball...
Posted by: Benny Blanca | July 31, 2007 at 04:18 PM
Faith:
Actually, I think one of Mitch's strengths is the draft. That's really where he's done his best. You see a huge change in the talent we've brought in through the draft from the time when we were still just filling in pieces around Shaq and Kobe to the current day. Now we seem to be taking the best available instead of whomever Phil thought was going to be valuable in the Kobe/Shaq era.
Posted by: generic_one | July 31, 2007 at 04:24 PM
The most clear evidence that any GM can be better than Jim Buss /Mitch tandem, is Danny Ainge.
This guy is considered a laughingstock of GM in the NBA.
Paul Pierce demanded a trade private and publicly.
Of course nobody want to interview a boring guy like Paul Pierce...So the news didn't came out big.
Look what happen...
Danny Ainge is now doing what the Lakers always did.
Forget future...let's win now.
Lakers are taking Celtics trend: Future is more important than present. Boston is becoming the Lakers of the late 90s. "The future is now".
Lets see Boston moves...
They trade 5th pick for Allen.
Mitch never would do that...
They trade their "celtics' bynum" Al Jefferson , and it get them Garnett.
Now Celtics are the new talk of the NBA, like Lakers were the past 10 or 15 years.
Those delusional optimists will bite this silly mantra: Future is the real deal.
Those who refuse to settle for mediocrity and already had seeing this Lakers plan fails in the worst way...will say: Now or never , same as this renowned Celtics approach.
Posted by: jorema | July 31, 2007 at 04:25 PM
Longtime,
Very good point. Absolutely amateurish editorial oversight on my part. I changed it in the post. Thanks for picking it up.
I still think the general point I was making (that if they're not gonna be good anyway, why let LO hold back any young player's development?) still holds water. Basically, if they're given the choice between Green, Gomes, Jefferson, et al or LO, I think they're better off with the youth, given their situation.
That said, what a major logistical error on my part! Or at the very least, a piss poor job illustrating that particular thought. Wow! Sometimes my idiocy knows no boundaries and shocks even me. haha
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | July 31, 2007 at 04:29 PM
Weave man said:
"Maybe I'm being naive, or maybe it's just sour grapes, but does anyone else think Boston gave up WAY too much?"
Not me. That Boston roster was terrible. I'm bummed. This most likely means Garnett doesn't opt out at years end and the Lakers have no help in sight--but themselves.
All I have to say is Bynum better come in this year and impress.
The same with Critterton.
I really think Minnesota needed to get players who were already under contract as well as young players with talent and draft picks. What's going to happen when the timberwolves can't attract any free agents? They're gonna have to rely on their picks and that bunch of loosers (except Jefferson and Green) they just got to win games. And I don't see that happening in the next 4-5 years.
McHale is going to pay for this one. He'll be out a job in a year, I'm sure.
Darn.
Those ex- Celtics stick together.
I bet McHale is employed by the Celtics with a month of being fired by the Wolves.
I'm sure of it.
Wes
Posted by: Wes J. Nixon | July 31, 2007 at 04:30 PM
Sacramento Kings Incoming Players: Kwame Brown, Jordan Farmar,
& Maurice Evans
Los Angeles Lakers Incoming Players: Quincy Douby, Francisco Garcia,
& Ron Artest
Trade Machine Link:
[url]http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=25~3000~2755~981~1031~3002&teams=13~13~13~23~23~23&te=&cash=[/url]
Sacramento Kings Get: (Expiring Contract) Kwame Brown, Young PG In Jordan Farmar In case Bibby is to be traded & Upgrade on GF from Mo Evans.
Los Angeles Lakers Get: Just A Filler in Quincy Douby, GF to replace Mo Evans and BU Kobe in Francisco Garcia, & 2nd Scoring Option In Ron Artest.
Reasonable and Realistic Deal??
Miguel
Posted by: Miguel | July 31, 2007 at 04:31 PM
Get Artest....Some how Some way get ARTEST!!!![/QUOTE]
Hypothetically this would work.
Orlando Magic Incoming Players: Kwame Brown
Sacramento Incoming Players: Hedo Turkoglu & Jordan Farmar
Lakers Incoming Players: Ron Artest & Keith Bogans.
Trade Machine Link: [url]http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=981~3002~25~1995~862&teams=19~23~13~13~23&te=&cash=[/url]
Orlando Magic Get: Expiring Contract In Kwame. Why they need is because of the Rashard Lewis Signing.
Sacramento Kings Get: A Scorer and a young Pg If they were to trade Bibby.
Lakers Get that 2nd option scorer Artest and a bench player.
Posted by: Miguel | July 31, 2007 at 04:32 PM
it pretty sad when players who see thier career at an end go to the east to try to win a ring....why? cuz they cant cut it in the west
shaq won his only and last titile....boston my get one after its all over and if kobe leaves and goes east he might get one more........
what weak way to try to win a title
Posted by: pruple&gold 4 eva | July 31, 2007 at 04:33 PM
Wow said:
Kobe nemesis Ray Allen looks really good. He has beat Kobe so bad. I mean he predicted Kobe, and now he is the one playing a dominant big man.
No, Wow, not at all. This is not about Kobe, but the front office. Like I stars attract stars. The Celtics front office traded their youth, got some big-name players and look what happened! Poof!
Nothing is going right for the Lakers. I'm bummed.
If only I had something fluffy...
Wes
Posted by: wes realbummed nixon | July 31, 2007 at 04:35 PM
tha show,
I disagree with you and you shouldn't disrespect the abilitities of Kareem nor Kurt Rambis. They are incredible assets to our organization.
Jeff,
You're right. Bynum COULD be the next Kareem. I mean, last year he scored 17 points against the Knicks in a single quarter. It is not irrational to have faith in his abilities since he is being mentored by one of the three greatest centers (and the smartest center) in the history of professional basketball.
I am so proud to be a Lakers fan.
And I will always be a Lakers fan.
No matter what.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon Kavulic | July 31, 2007 at 04:37 PM
What was it Horace Greeley said?
"Go east, old man, go east"
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 31, 2007 at 04:40 PM
Honestly, I don't think the Buss family has the type of money to compete with all the new money that has entered the NBA over the last several years. It's been in the back of my mind for a few years but when I see guys like Mark Cuban and Paul Allen entering the league with all their money, I wondered how it would effect the Buss family. The Buss family runs the Lakers like a mom and pop operation, while these other guys are seriously aggressive in what they want, without the worry about money.
While the Lakers watch how they spend money the likes of the Knicks, Mavericks, and Blazers...they don't worry about things like that. Those teams may not have won any championships over the last several years but they are aggressive in their approach to improving their ballclubs.
The Buss family, I believe, is an outdated in their approach and they have to watch every dollar.
mike
Posted by: Michael C. Teniente | July 31, 2007 at 04:40 PM
A TRADE IS NOT FRICKEN HAPPENING! HAVE FAITH IN YOUR PLAYERS!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon Kavulic | July 31, 2007 at 04:42 PM
Kobeyashi said it all.....
"Sad when your team does not have a single player that other teams desire or want to trade for. From Kobe to Turiaf no Laker is wanted by any other team , either because they make too much (Kobe) or because they make too much and are over-rated (LO) or they make too much and they suck (Vlad) or they don't make much but are lame (Bynum) , or they make too much and are super lame that even in their last year of contract no one wants them (Kwame)"
That's about it, right there...
It is sad, very sad.
Wes
Posted by: Wes "I ate the fluffy" Nixon | July 31, 2007 at 04:43 PM
I think everybody on here are already jumping into what the lakers will do next. But we wont know what the lakers will do until we know what Kobe wants. Trading Kobe is still a very very stupid idea. What we need is bold moves from the front office.
We are in this situation because we did not make bold moves. And now we pratically have no options left about who we can get. Basically, we cant even make a trade except for JO until the trade dealine, because any deal left to make is all gone now.
But our lineup will be good to get us to playoff, whenever you have Kobe you will make the playoff no matter what. But with our current team we will not go far.
I think is also important to put how great Kobe has been to getting us to the playoffs this past two years.
All three allstars on the Celtics right now did not make the playoffs with their former teams. Kobe made the playoffs with a very bad team and young team also, in the western conference and I think it speaks to Kobe's greatness.
But I think we wait till the trade deadline to make a move via trades as long as Kobe is on the team. We have to see what this team has and it all depends on what Kobe decides to do. I think Kobe will be in training camp and he should, the lakers are still the best option he has. He will be smart to make a decision after his contract ends with the lakers to decide wheather to move on from the lakers.
AK,
You made a statement that the lakers were 9-17 on their way to the playoffs. I think that is quite irrelevent and again what you did was to take away from what Kobe accomplished with an injury plagued team. Even with the lakers playing that bad, everybody pretty much knew the lakers were going to make the playoffs. The Clippers and the other team you named were a long shot because they weren't playing good bball either. The only team in the lower ranks to make the playoffs that were playing good bball was Denver and Golden state. And I think it is those kind of statements that you make, that makes you a Kobe hater like people have called you on this blog.
Kobe did a great job getting his team into the playoffs, and he played probably one his best statistical playoff series against the suns. His team seriously did not showoff, except those Kobe named that gave it their all which were lamar and Luke, and I would include Turiaf and Farmer to that list.
Posted by: wow | July 31, 2007 at 04:46 PM
AK, Sorry man, I forgot you have a life!!!!
I was just testing your response speed. Thanks for the prompt response!!!!
I agree with you that there are only three possible realistic trades and hopefully this will put an end to all these other stupid trade scenarios.
Aaarrrhhhh!!
Angry_Laker
Posted by: Angry_Laker | July 31, 2007 at 04:47 PM
I can believe people are giving Mitch a free pass:
He is a good GM...
Jesus!
Phrases like this will make me wonder if we lost touch with reality as Lakers' fans.
"Actually, I think one of Mitch's strengths is the draft. That's really where he's done his best. You see a huge change in the talent we've brought in through the draft from the time when we were still just filling in pieces around Shaq and Kobe to the current day.""
Generic-one is taking a all time low level vacation.
Posted by: jorema | July 31, 2007 at 04:49 PM
wes realbummed nixon,
What I really meant by that statement was that Kobe can really learn from people like KG, Paul and Ray. He can learn some good human charateristics from those guys. I think the big three came together because they are good people. Good things happen to good people. Im not saying Kobe is bad person, but he has some bad charateristic flaws. KG should be playing with Kobe, but even KG said in his press conference that the situation with Kobe was up in the air and I think that even made the decision enticing for him to play with the Celtics.
Kobe and KG is that right mix, its just too bad that it will not happen, and its a tragedy that those two are not playing together. But Im a Kobe guy all the way, but he needs to mature some more before it is too late for him. This summer situation should have not happened at all.
The front office is a dismal, Mitch and that son of Buss do have to go. Those guys should have had enough pieces to make the KG trade even easier. The Celtics just traded for two superstar (that has to be unprecedented) because they drafted great, mind you they were in the lottery which the lakers were not. But we talk about the Caron Butler trade, and our draft picks, and not been bold to move other trades with Artest and other, and you see that this front office is inept to do anything positive and build around Kobe.
Posted by: wow | July 31, 2007 at 04:58 PM
"nobody knows the trouble i've seen, nobody knows but jesus"
Posted by: pruple&gold 4 eva | July 31, 2007 at 05:00 PM
Wow,
In your rush to "defend" Kobe, you're missing my point entirely. I already praised Kobe's incredible play as a large part of why they won any games down the stretch, especially considering the injuries. But the idea that Kobe "carried them" into the playoffs is, at least in my mind, something of a fallacy, because there was nobody really putting the screws to them. Most teams that go 9-17 over their last two months don't make the playoffs. That's just the bottom line. In my opinion, the single biggest reason they got there was that the opposition didn't step up. If you want to consider that being a "Kobe hater," be my guest, but like I said, that's not what it's about.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | July 31, 2007 at 05:00 PM
The only consolation in the Celtics trade is that those three players, Allen, Pierce and Garnett...are chokers in playoffs time.
Garnett think he won the Lotto, but he will wake up soon from dreaming, his "big ticket" laughable nickname will be soon changed to big choker.
He will have to deliver in Boston, if his team doesn't ....the fault is on him.
The trio will be called "The Three Loose-teers".
Posted by: jorema | July 31, 2007 at 05:01 PM
It’s the name on the front of the jersey that matters not the one the back
-Kobe Bryant
Posted by: pruple&gold 4 eva | July 31, 2007 at 05:04 PM
That big dark cloud above Lakerville has a starting point and it's the Shaq trade. If we would have gotten decent players with decent contracts we could have had decent pieces to get Garnett. Heck, why didn't we trade him FOR Garnett?
Still, the last thing we need right now is to be plucked by another Celtic. No way do we gut this team for Oneal. Sorry people J.O. just isn't that good.
I have nothing else to say.
Wes
Posted by: Wes "the fluffy's been killed" Nixon | July 31, 2007 at 05:06 PM
Jorema,
"The trio will be called "The Three Loose-teers"."
AS YOU WOULD PUT IT. YOU'RE STARTING TO SOUND LIKE A HEATER!!!
Posted by: Gunner | July 31, 2007 at 05:10 PM
Gen_O...I agree with you for the most part lately. But really you can't expect much cause we're picking so late....which just adds up to the problem. Drafting early players doesn't necessarily make them good players...but the idea is that they would be. For so long we've been drafting so late cause we've been on the cusp of mediocrity, while not having tradeable pieces to get better draft picks. In essence it's like a catch-22. Where we would get better picks if we had players to trade for them (like Phoenix), but then if we had better picks, we can get better players to trade for. Currently neither is true.
Don't get me wrong, I love Ronny, I like that I'm hearing good things about Java...but the fact of the matter is outside of them no one really fits in with the winning now we need to accomplish, nor are they particularly tradeable. Socks may very well turn out to be the next great thing since slice bread, if it happens at all...but it would come much much later. We would have been better served drafting for players that can help us now. But that's in the past. The future is a dark gloomy question mark, mirred in with years of mediocrity and questionable moves. In one word...UGLY lol.
Posted by: Faith | July 31, 2007 at 05:12 PM
Ak,
The only thing with that record you presented was that you did not put it perspective with what was going with other teams as well. Nobody was really playing good bball either and you just said it yourself, "In my opinion, the single biggest reason they got there was that the opposition didn't step up," which means the record is irrelevent since teams were not playing good ball. And When Kobe went on that 5 game winning streak puting up over 50 points each game it pretty much guaranteed we were going to make the playoffs. Like I said the 9-17 record is pretty irrelevent. Because when we were on the freefall the last two months of the regular season, Kobe did what he had to do to make sure we did not die and not even make the playoffs at all. And that is what I call carring a team on your shoulders. Alot of Superstars in the league couldnt have done what Kobe did, and all you have to do is look at KG, Ray and Paul Pierce.
Im not calling you a Kobe hater, but that is why some bloggers put you in that catagory. If anything you have a Kobe bias, but not a Kobe hater.
Could you imagine how much heat Kobe would have been taken if the lakers did not make the playoffs. Look how much heat hes taking right not for not getting them out the first round from bloggers like KL. And we rational creatures Know that the lakers have a bad team (all you have to say is Kwame), and a young team, and it makes such comments pretty much stupid and irrational. Alot of athletes are put in those position when they don win and its not fair at all.
Posted by: wow | July 31, 2007 at 05:18 PM
If we do trade Kobe (please GOD no!), I certainly hope we learn from the Shaq trade.
Since Lakerville is in the doldrums...here's something to hopefully cheer us up!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TwlhcnoljnM&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3TdZHffwOF8&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RY06eaFaplw&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NqM6hiAVm9w
http://youtube.com/watch?v=769f_gjkDaA
Posted by: Faith | July 31, 2007 at 05:20 PM
Violater says:
"Garnett will be a celtic till atleast 2012, he is to sign a 3 year extension on top of his deal which has 2 years still remaining. Just overnight the celts are light years ahead of the lakes, go figure.."
Are you sue about this? Garnett signs an extension? Darn.
This has to fall back on the Lakers front office! Why didn't we get more tradeable pieces from that D#mn Shaq trade? Why? Garnett to LA was as sure as Shaq to LA, but we let Boston swoop in and grab him. We really do suck. If it wasn't for sucking we'd be immobile, unconscious and unremarkable.
We should take pride in the fact that we are now--from this point forward--to be known for our infinite and unparalleled ability to pucker up and suckle. And we'll suckle anything. At anything. For anything. To, with, in, on, and for anything. We suck.
That sound you hear--yup. It's us...sucking.
Wes
Posted by: Wes Nixon | July 31, 2007 at 05:25 PM
I like Doc Rivers as a Coach and a former player. I think this is the best Xmas Gift a Coach could get. He's never had a great team but now he does.
CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU DOC RIVERS!!!
DON'T WORRY, IN 2 YEARS WHEN WE GET RID OF THE EXCESS BAGGAGE #24, WE'LL BUILD TOWARDS THOSE 80'S RIVALRIES WITH THE CELTS AGAIN.
Posted by: Gunner | July 31, 2007 at 05:26 PM
what minnesota did right here is what the lakers should do. i love kobe to death but it just might be time to rebuild. i can be just as optimistic as the next guy but the truth is that with the current team on the roster right now will not make it out of the first round. not trading kobe will just prolong the inevitable. rebuilding for the next 5 years. boston wanted to win now and mortaged the future for it. for some reason the lakers just cant manage to do that for kobe. time to pull the plug.
Posted by: sixonezero | July 31, 2007 at 05:28 PM
Jorema
"The only consolation in the Celtics trade is that those three players, Allen, Pierce and Garnett...are chokers in playoffs time."
ANOTHER "HEATER" RESPONSE. YOU DON'T WANT ANYMORE TO HATE ON KOBE BUT YOU GO AND HATE ON GARNETT, PIERCE, AND ALLEN?
Posted by: Gunner | July 31, 2007 at 05:39 PM
jorema:
"Phrases like this will make me wonder if we lost touch with reality as Lakers' fans."
I think you're the last person that should be accusing someone of losing touch with reality. ;)
Posted by: generic_one | July 31, 2007 at 05:42 PM
AK,
"but the idea that Kobe "carried them" into the playoffs is, at least in my mind, something of a fallacy"
dude if that ain't hating i don't know what is. yes they lost a lot of games going into the playoffs but every single win they won down the stretch counted. w/o kobe we'd have won nada. how is that not carrying your team ... unless you're mistaking carrying a team to equate to winning ... carrying means the rest of the guys ain't pulling their slack and you're covering for them ...
Anyway didn't mean to just jump into the middle of this but i'm so pissed right now. Why the 'f*#$#" did we sign coby? is it just me or do we seem to sign more rookies/projects than anyone else out there. Now the roster is full?? full of what??
I take back everything i said about LA being kobe's home. I mean if your family is full of crack heads, it just might make sense to runaway from home.
Posted by: Taliq | July 31, 2007 at 06:01 PM
"You are intelligent person, if you had the same contract as kobe has would you allow yourself to be trade to a rubbish team!!!"
-------------------
The thing is, the statements that the Lakers would have to take away
every good player on a team for Kobe is rubbish, There are several teams
that have enough good players that the Lakers could trade Kobe there and
it would leave them thinner than they were, but still a competitive team
(and probably more competitive with Kobe on them).
Examples:
Chicago has 7 to 9 quality players who could be pieces in a trade for Kobe.
The top tier of those are Ben Wallace, Kirk Hinrich, and Luol Deng.
At least one of those players would have to be included in the trade. If
two of them could be included, then less other players would have to be
thrown in. The next level of players are Ben Gordon, Tyrus Thomas,
and Andres Nocioni. They aren't quite as valuable as the first three,
but they have demonstrated a reasonably high level of performance.
Additionally, Joakim Noah, Chris Duhon, and Thabo Sefolosha are
players that have enough potential that they could be filler pieces in
a deal.
Note that the problem of matching Kobe's big salary could be minimized
by including either Wallace or Hinrich in the deal. Or the Lakers could
throw in a low priced player to keep from stripping the team. Here are
a couple of Chicago trades to illustrate:
1. Hinrich as the big chunk of $
Kobe, and Farmar for Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon, Tyrus Thomas, and
a future draft choice or two. Lakers improve dramatically at PG, plus
they get a young stud at PF and a reasonably good starting SG.
That leaves Chicago with this team:
C - Ben Wallace, Joakim Noah,
PF - Nocioni, Joe Smith, Mike Sweetney
SF - Luol Deng, Khryapa, Adrian Griffin
SG - Kobe, Sefolosha
PG - Duhon, Farmar
I would hardly call a core of Big Ben, Nocioni, Deng, and Kobe a "rubbish"
team. And Sefolosha, Farmar, Duhon, and Noah are all decent role
players.
-------
2. Wallace as the big chunk of $
Kobe + Turiaf for Gordon, Deng, and Ben Wallace
Turiaf isn't as good as Wallace defensively, but he's not bad, and he's
a better offensive player than big Ben. This trade leaves Chicago with:
C - Turiaf, Noah
PF - Thomas, Joe Smith, Sweetney
SF - Nocioni, Khryapa, Griffin
SG - Kobe, Sefolosha
PG - Hinrich, Duhon
Again, the core of Hinrich, Kobe, Nocioni, and Thomas, with Turiaf,
Noah, Sefolosha, and Duhon as role players is far from "rubbish".
-------------------------------------
Though not every team in the league has enough players to offer 3 or 4
for Kobe and still be competitive, there are several others that I would
say fit the profile.
Atlanta: Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, Zaza Pachulia, Al Horford, Josh
Childress, Shelden Williams, Josh Smith, Acie Law.
Dallas: Josh Howard, Jason Terry, Devin Harris, De Sagana Diop, Pops
Mensah-Bonsu, Juan Jose Barea, Nick Fazekas
Detroit: Rasheed Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton, Tayshaun
Prince, Antonio McDyess, Rodney Stuckey, Aaron Afflalo
Golden State: Baron Davis, Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson, Sarunas
Jasikevicius, Mickael Pietrus, Andris Biedrins, Brandan
Wright, Marco Belinelli, Monta Ellis [Matt Barnes]
Milwaukee: Michael Redd, Maurice Williams, Desmond Mason, Andrew
Bogut, Dan Gadzuric, Charlie Villanueva, Yi, [Charlie Bell]
New York: Zach Randolph, Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, David Lee,
Renaldo Balkman, Nate Robinson, Wilson Chandler
Utah: Andrei Kirilenko, Carlos Boozer, Mehmet Okur, Matt Harpring,
Deron Williams, Ronnie Brewer, Morris Almond, Paul Millsap
Any one of those teams could give up two players that would be
starters at their position for the Lakers, plus a young promising
player and they'd still have a solid core with Kobe.
There are also a couple of teams who might be willing to trade a star
and another part or two (e.g. New Jersey - Vince Carter+Krstic+Williams
or Denver - Carmelo + either Nene or Camby) to get Kobe - and those
teams wouldn't be left stripped either.
And the important thing about Kobe broadening the set of teams he would
be willing to go to isn't so that the Lakers could actually TRADE him to
Atlanta or Milwaukee. But if Atlanta and Milwaukee were interested
enough to be making offers, then if Chicago really wanted him, they'd
be willing to offer more than if they were the only bidder.
But I'd also be pitching to Kobe the idea of how great a player he would
show himself to be if he could take a team like Milwaukee or Atlanta with
some good players around him and lead them to a championship.
Posted by: Long time Laker fan | July 31, 2007 at 06:08 PM
oh boy! oh boy ! poor lakers... mitch kupchak please do submit your resignation letter.. lakers dont need you anymore.. you can't make a deal man!! the fans are the ones paying your salary but you can't make us happy, you dissapointed us mitch! now we will loose kobe!
Posted by: jeff cayas | July 31, 2007 at 06:17 PM
Mike T
"Honestly, I don't think the Buss family has the type of money to compete with all the new money that has entered the NBA over the last several years. It's been in the back of my mind for a few years but when I see guys like Mark Cuban and Paul Allen entering the league with all their money, I wondered how it would effect the Buss family. The Buss family runs the Lakers like a mom and pop operation, while these other guys are seriously aggressive in what they want, without the worry about money.
While the Lakers watch how they spend money the likes of the Knicks, Mavericks, and Blazers...they don't worry about things like that. Those teams may not have won any championships over the last several years but they are aggressive in their approach to improving their ballclubs.
The Buss family, I believe, is an outdated in their approach and they have to watch every dollar."
THATS A DARN GOOD POINT RIGHT THERE.
Posted by: sixonezero | July 31, 2007 at 06:20 PM
AK
"And since I don't have a clue which teams outside of say, Chicago, NY and Phoenix Kobe would theoretically even be willing to play for, I don't have time to waste going through each team thinking of a trade scenario."
-----------------------------------
Here's a few I posted to the previous blog:
Atlanta -
Joe Johnson
Al Horford
Josh Childress
future draft pick[s]
Dallas -
Josh Howard
Devin Harris
some combo of Fazekas, Barea, Diop, and future draft picks
future draft pick[s]
Detroit -
Any two of Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton, and Tayshaun Prince
plus either Rodney Stuckey or Aaron Afflalo
Golden State -
Al Harrington
Brandan Wright
Monta Ellis
Marco Belinelli
Sarunas Jasikevicius
future draft pick[s]
Indiana -
Jermaine O'Neal
Danny Granger
Ike Diogu
future draft pick[s]
Milwaukee -
Michael Redd
Dan Gadzuric or Andrew Bogut
rights to Yi
future draft pick[s]
New Jersey -
Vince Carter or Jason Kidd
Nenad Krstic
Marcus Williams
future draft pick[s]
New York -
Eddy Curry
Jamal Crawford
David Lee
Renaldo Balkman
future draft pick[s]
Philadelphia -
Andre Miller or Samuel Dalembert
Rodney Carney or Thaddeus Young
Kyle Korver
Jason Smith
future draft pick[s]
Toronto -
Chris Bosh
Jose Calderon
Andrea Bargnani or Jorge Garbajosa
future draft pick[s]
Utah -
Andrei Kirilenko
Ronnie Brewer
Paul Millsap
future draft pick[s]
Again, I'm not saying Kobe would be willing to go any of these places or that any of them are great deals -
What I was shooting for was getting at least a couple of very good players back for Kobe plus at least one
promising young player, but still leave the team with enough talent surrounding Kobe that they'd be
competitive with Kobe.
Three of the "non-Chicago" trades are particularly intriguing to me - Milwaukee, Atlanta, and Detroit.
They are all in the East, and they could all give back a very good SG as one piece in a trade for Kobe.
Of the three, I'd guess Milwaukee would be the most willing to trade for Kobe, but Detroit may be the
only one of the three that Kobe would be willing to be traded to.
Posted by: Long time Laker fan | July 31, 2007 at 06:29 PM
FREE AGENTS TO KOBE BRYANT THE PAST 3 YEARS: "F-U"
Attention to Kobe Loyalist, kobe did this to himself by being a jerk on and off the court; particularly to Shaq O'Neal.
Now, nobody of stature wants to play with Mr. Selfish, Mr. Me-me, Mr. I Want it Now.
Laker fans will have to suffer while Kobe Loyalist continue to make excuses for the Big Jerkoff and the laker organization reduced to a circus show featuring Sideshow Kob and his Globetrotters.
But, not to worry, kobe will have 2 more years to break more scoring records and win more scoring titles. Kobe's legacy is secure. Too bad Kobe's legacy will be remembered as the Biggest Robin of All Time.
Posted by: KLBeast | July 31, 2007 at 06:30 PM
Well, I hope that those of us who have been defending Kobe's childish tirades will finally be able to see that he really did hurt us.
http://tinyurl.com/25l6nd
That's a link to the Boston press conference in which he says that he didn't really consider going to LA because he didn't know what Kobe was going to do.
Thanks, Kobe! You rock!
Posted by: generic_one | July 31, 2007 at 06:32 PM
JOURNAL OF NICKNAMES FOR KOBE AND KOBE DISCIPLES (update#8)
*Additions from previous version
Kobe Bryant is the:
Big Whiner
Big Pluto
Big Charlatan
Big Loser
Big Malcontent
Big Narcist
Big Rat
Big Snake
Big Mambo, Mambo#8, Mambo#24
Big Tito Jackson
Big LaToya Jackson
Big Faker
Big Blamer
Big Finger Pointer
Big Du-mass
Big Backstabber
Big Pippen Wannabe
Big Dominic Wannabe
Big Drama Queen
Big Irrelevant (credit to Gunner24)
Big Crybaby
Big Envy
Big Green with Envy
Big “Be Like Mike”
Big $3Million Dollar “to Make You Holler” Ring
Big “Trade Me, Don’t Trade Me, Trade Me Again”
Big Waffle
Big “Right Now”
Big Jerkoff
Big A$$hole
Big Britney Spears, Lindsey Lohan, Paris Hilton
Big Diva
Big KBiatch
Big Primadonna
Big Liar
Big Tantrum
Big Poision
Big Selfish
Big Loner
Big Anti-LBJ and Anti-Wade
Big Unnatural Elbow
Big Dirty Player
Big Love Me, Hate Me Stupid Nike Ad
Big Cheater
Big Adulterer
Most Selfish Ever
Great Individual (credit to Maleke)
Big Self Loather
Big Unhappy
Big Insatiable
Big Conceited
Big Prick (credit to Waterboy)
Big Bad Apple
Big Transparent
Big Dynasty Killer
Big No KG
Big No Bulls
Princess Kobe (credit to east coast fan)
Big Fool
Big Egomaniac
Big Sissy (credit to UsedtobeKOBEfan)
Big Talented Nobody
Big Joke
CANCER MAMBO DANCER #24 (credit to tarugo)
Kobe Disciples are:
Kobe Apologist=Kobe's Toilet
Mitchell=Kobe’s Agent=Jerry McGuire
LakerTom=KobeTom
Hariyahu=Samir from Office Space
Ric Bucher=Kobe’s Puppet Not Named Mitchell=Kobe’s Whipping Boy
godchild=TBD
lakersrydeordie=laker-noodle
JOREMA = KOBE'S MONEY BOX (credit to Gunner24)
Posted by: KLBeast | July 31, 2007 at 06:33 PM
On LO
"Marc Stein of ESPN.com led the praise:
If there's been a braver player in the NBA this season, I'd love to hear about him. Because I don't see one.
After long-term knee and shoulder injuries -- which followed the unspeakable loss of his six-month-old son over the summer -- Odom just keeps playing on, trying as hard as he can to be Kobe's Scottie Pippin.
He's still not there, agreed, but I don't think he ever had a chance this season. Not after a bad knee sprain in December and definitely not after the shoulder tear he suffered in March, which should have sent him to surgery if Odom hadn't vowed to delay the operation until after the season.
There was also a hyperextended elbow Odom picked up during the Phoenix series, as if the man with the NBA's heaviest heart hadn't suffered enough.
(An aside: The first thing that catches your eye when you walk into the Lakers' locker room is a supersized white T-shirt hanging in Odom's locker, sporting the smiling likeness of his late son Jayden. Basketball might be his sanctuary, but Odom was intent on keeping Jayden's spirit close by even at work.)
Tony Mejia of CBS Sportsline expressed similar sentiments:
It was great to see Odom go down swinging after the year he's had, finishing with a career playoff-high 33 points. Odom, truly one of the good guys, experienced a terrible personal tragedy when he lost his infant son in the offseason, and still fought through that pain along with elbow, shoulder and knee issues to lift the Lakers as best he could. Before his body started betraying him, he was playing the best basketball of his career, incredible considering what his mental state had to have been. If you want someone to root for, pick that guy. Fighting through that type of adversity? Simply admirable.
CHANGES AFOOT?
The sad reality for LO: His courage during the playoffs only reaffirmed that outside of Kobe Bryant, he is the most valuable piece of the current Lakers roster, which many feel needs to be overhauled.
"I love it here," Odom told Bill Plaschke of the Los Angeles Times and ESPN's "Around the Horn." "I hope I have done enough to prove that I belong here the rest of my career. But as a team, sometimes you get stuck between a rock and a hard place. We're expected to win, and we haven't won, and they're going to do everything they can to get back to winning."
However, many experts -- including Chad Ford of ESPN.com -- feel that Los Angeles is best off keeping LO on its roster:
"I'm not sure I trade Odom. To me he's the perfect fit in LA."
Posted by: take a chill pill | July 31, 2007 at 06:35 PM
AK
First of all, you CAN blame Kupchak for "not having all the pieces" to make the KG trade work. It is his collective years of imcompotence that has put us in this position. Second, trading Bynum and LO for JO is EXACTLY the move we need to make. I would try and package a third player on our part - perhaps Brian Cook or Luke Walton and toss in Danhy Granger from Indiana. As Lakerbake said in a previous blog - LO does not have the attitude to be the 2nd guy in the offense. He defers too much, and is not physical enough in the low post. We need presence in the paint - you can't win in this league without it. I think JO's best years are yet to come if paired with Kobe. JO is at least as good a health proposition as LO. I have said this many times, three years with LO and Kobe have yielded two first round bounces and a play-off no show. IT DOESN"T WORK. It's not like LO is going to get any better - he is what he is. MAKE THE MOVE MITCH!!!
Posted by: Lincoln Laker | July 31, 2007 at 06:35 PM
Gunner and KL:
If there is one thing that is for certain, it's that Kobe is not going anywhere.
What would have to take place in order for Kobe to be traded?
#1: Kobe would have to approve the team he's going to. He will only do this if he knows the team he's going to will not be gutted by the trade.
#2: The team the gets Kobe would have to be OK with trading their best player and 2-3 other good players to get him.
#3: The Lakers would have to be willing to accept the players that the other team offers in exchange for Kobe.
#4: The salaries on both sides of the trade would have to match up per the CBA rules.
With the signing of Coby Karl, the Lakers have maxed out their roster. They have knowingly put themselves in a position in which they cannot trade Kobe. The only trade they can make is to get a big name player in exchange for several current Lakers.
So, whether you guys like it or not, Kobe will be a Laker for the next two years. I hope you're prepared for 24 more months of hating.
Posted by: hal9000 | July 31, 2007 at 06:39 PM
IS NO ONE SEING THE CELTIC BIAS???? odom/bynum + draft picks is much better then what the celtics gave them. also, kobe is much better then ray allen and paul pierce. McHale didnt want to send kg to the lakers. not kupcakes fault, not kobes fault. would you trade kobe to the celtics? probably not. WE HATE the celtics just like they hate us. everyone relax, kobe will be a laker next year, where the hell is he gonna go? we have a decent team this year and we will only build and we are the lakers so we are bound to get lucky and make it further in the playoffs. then kobe will stay and retire as a laker and we will win a championship sooner then later. so everyone needs to quit trippin out and blamming people. KG and JO both have former celtics controlling them so what do you expect. to get them for free? just be happy with dfish and jcritt and pray for no injuries. WE WILL BE BETTER THEN LAST YEAR!!!!!! I PROMISE!!!!!!!!
GO LAKERS
Posted by: mrbmrbarneydangles | July 31, 2007 at 06:41 PM