Eddie Money had two tickets to paradise
The Celtics now have one Ticket, a purchase made with the intention of traveling to the same destination that Mr. Money had in mind. Needless to say, this is pretty gosh darn huge. "Big enough to make David Stern stop weeping about Oden and Durant playing for two teams nobody ever sees" huge. "Big enough to make Bill Simmons stop weeping about acquiring Ray Allen" huge, especially considering Jesus Shuttlesworth reportedly played a big role in pitching Beantown to Garnett. Hell, it's even "big enough to overshadow the Lakers signing Coby Karl" huge.
OK, the acquiring of George Karl's undrafted son might have flown under the radar under any circumstances (although it's actually a more inspirational story than KG getting traded). But when it comes to inspiring Laker fans to sing a tune with an excellent guitar riff, the newest Laker likely won't cut the mustard. Karl's presence also appears a long shot to prevent Kobe from licking old wounds, a reaction that could make things rather unpleasant. Thus, it begs the question of where to go from here.
Well, for fans, a trip to El Segundo armed with flaming torches and a cry for Mitch Kupchak's head is unwarranted. I'm not being a front-office apologist, just realistic. Disappointed as I am to see Garnett land elsewhere, I don't think this situation is reasonably on Kupchak's shoulders. By all accounts, an aggressive pitch was made for Garnett. A failure to put him in purple and gold didn't seem due to a reluctance to part with chips, simply a lack of said chips. I've said a zillion times that I didn't think the Lakers had the pieces to make KG a Laker. Here's proof positive. Sorry, but Boston's offer was better than the Lakers' best counter. Compare the particulars and it's obvious:
Kwame Brown represents an expiring contract worth 9 million bucks. Theo Ratliff's is worth 11.7. I'm hardly qualified to teach mathematics at MIT. I can barely do long division. But I remain confident in my belief that 11.7 is more than 9. Bynum is a promising post player. Al Jefferson is a promising post player who's more developed than Drew. That doesn't mean Jefferson's a lock to end up the better player, but it does mean he's pretty a tough commodity to refuse, especially in a holdout for a less-established big man. In addition to draft picks, the Wolves receive youngsters ranging from "all upside" (Gerald Green) to "potentially solid role player" (Ryan Gomes) to "soon to be blessed with a lot of free time to shop for new guns" (Sebastian Telfair). All contracts end in 2008, providing a team that won't likely be good for a few seasons some low-risk, short-term options. And since they won't be solid anytime soon, why take on Lamar Odom's big contract and allow his PT to stymie the growth of Corey Brewer? Even with the Lakers theoretically willing to take Marko Jaric or Mark Blount's bad salaries, the Celts package makes more sense for a rebuilding team. If you wanna blame Kupchak for not having the requisite pieces on hand, fair enough. But otherwise, you're basically blaming him for not being able to con Kevin McHale into taking a clearly less-desirable package. His moves over the years show McHale may be dumb, but the man ain't stupid.
Assuming Kupchak can enter his office without a private security detail, what should he do while at his desk? Hopefully not sign off on a panic move that shows fans (and a certain shooting guard) that he's willing to "make noise." Yeah, noise often reeks of "bold and decisive." But noise also typically precedes a thumping headache. The powers that be are already gobbling Excedrin. No need to willingly end up in rehab for an aspirin addiction. Jermaine O'Neal, for example, is the likely name to pop up in rumor mills. Last time he was sewing circle fodder, the deal involved exchanging Odom and Bynum (unless you're counting the Odom-Bynum-Brown for JO-Troy Murphy proposal, but I don't since it was asinine to even consider). Landing JO gives the Lakers a bigger "name" and certainly brings the much-ballyhooed "noise." But would it also bring bring the funk? I don't think so.
JO might shore up the D a bit in between nursing injuries (which happens quite a bit, for those keeping score). But I don't think he'd transform the Laker hoop into a fortress, either. In the meantime, you lose what LO provides the offense, especially in turns of it running smoothly. Yes, offense isn't chief among Laker concerns, but that's assuming it functions at peak capacity. Remove LO from the equation for a less versatile option and you may downgrade the O more than the D actually improves. JO is a more consistent scorer, but this still strikes me as a sideways (and expensive) move, and I don't know if it's worth trading two of three pieces with any value simply because it represents "bold action." Driving headfirst in a brick wall at 90 mph is bold. Doesn't mean I'm itching to do it. And save the theoretical move for KG, the only way the Lakers were "one player away" was through adding a high-quality player to the mix, not swapping talent. If the Lakers pick up a quality player to accompany Kobe and JO, that's perhaps another story. But I'd hate to see the team dig itself further into a hole so fans know they're "serious about building a winner." "Serious" and "smart" are two different things. I prefer the latter.
Does that mean I wanna stand pat? No. The front office should aggressively go after any good player on the market and those reportedly untouchable. But I don't think they should move heaven and earth, no questions asked. Especially if the primary motive is making Kobe happy, since the odds are low, anyway. Garnett was the guy he wanted. That's no longer a possibility. I don't picture any other moves that'll automatically put a smile on his face. Except, of course, trading him. Which, as I've said before, I think the Lakers should seriously consider. Not because I "want" to trade Kobe. Nobody really "wants" to trade the league's best player still in his prime. I'd much rather put a team around him, all things being equal. But this isn't about what I want. It's about what I think is best for the Lakers, and sometimes what you want to do and what you should do are two very different things.
If you can't utilize Kobe's abilities to their fullest by building around him, there's no real point to having him here, especially if he's counting down the minutes (perhaps in a vocal and distracting fashion) until he can bolt. You're simply avoiding the inevitable, and procrastinating could limit whatever returns are possible for Kobe. Like it or not, the Lakers may be in a position where rebuilding is the unattractive but necessary solution. If that's the case, you're better off obtaining (and retaining) the most pieces and options to make it happen. No Laker will fetch more loot than Kobe. Were I Mitch Kupchak, I'd keep my ear to the ground for possibilities. But if I'm hearing nothing but silence, I would approach Kobe and lay everything on the table. If we acquiesce to your wishes, will you widen the list of reportedly acceptable destinations beyond "Chicago" and "Chicago" (although the Bulls could very well be more interested in a Kobe trade these days, now that Boston's a legit three-headed monster)? As stubborn as he can be and as much as he hates relinquishing control, Kobe might be open to a compromise focused around speeding up his wishes. Or he might take that stance as a sign of weakness and relish having the Lakers by the short and curlies, aping how Shaq handled his trip out of town. But if I had to guess, a cooperative olive branch is more likely to help than hurt. And it may be the best move for the franchise (if a bitter pill for fans to swallow).
In any case, I'd be lying if I said I'm not curious about what comes next. I'm already exhausted thinking about how many hours I'm gonna be chained to my laptop writing about it. But curious nonetheless.
-- AK
AK do you think Kobe is stupid!!!
You are intelligent person, if you had the same contract as kobe has would you allow yourself to be trade to a rubbish team!!!
Well if the answer is No!, well I have saved you an interview. You will have answered the question yourself. It does not take a genius to work it out, Kobe will wait 2yrs or put the lakers in position were they have no choice.
What people are forgetting, is it is always about the money!!!
I expect a more enlightened post from you, not more ‘KLBeat indoctrination rehash re-posts’!!!
Aaarrrhhhh!!
Angry_Laker
Posted by: Angry_Laker | July 31, 2007 at 02:48 PM
I'm going to do some research on what players with 2 yrs left on their deals can better help us as oppose to Bynum and Odom since everyone thinks KOBE is walking in 2 yrs.
That could very well be true but to sit around and play half rebuild and half win wth KOBE is silly.
Posted by: LakerBake | July 31, 2007 at 02:48 PM
generic_one,
agree with you on this one, why mortgage our future now? JO has 60+M over the next 3 years. Getting him without giving up LO would make sence, it'll make Lakers instant contender. Without LO it'llbe marginaly better, meaning exit after 2nd round in best case scenario. Lary Bird knows by now, they need to rebuild and with JO contract hanging it's not possible and Mitch will be a complete jerk to take on this contract by giving up LO and Bynum. I'm not even talking about Troy Murphy.
Posted by: LAL_Fan | July 31, 2007 at 02:50 PM
LakerBake,
"Even exhelodrvr sees the KOBE hate in AK."
Actually, I was being ironic. For the most part I agree with his column.
At this point, I think that the Lakers best option would probably be to trade Kobe.
Given the salary cap situation they are in, and the overall lack of talent on the Lakers, I think it is unlikely that the current roster will be able to contend for a title. Way too many "if so-and-so stays healthy" and "if so-and-so reaches his potential" for that to be likely to occur. Given the salary cap constraints, they won't be able to sign anyone significant for the next several years. So I would look to trade Kobe.
However, I differ from AK in that if a Kobe trade can't be done (either Kobe won't agree, or the F.O doesn't want to, or no teams are seriously interested) I would make the J.O. trade, and keep my fingers crossed that he stays healthy.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 31, 2007 at 02:51 PM
Hal9000,
KL and Gunner:
Congratulations! You got what you wanted... I hope you like the "rebuilding process" as much as Clipper fans have for the last 30 years...
DON'T WORRY MY FRIEND. THE LAKERS ARE IN CONTROL. LET KOBE WORK HIS BUTT OFF AND AGE FOR 2 MORE YEARS THEN DROPKICK HIM RIGHT OFF THE TEAM WITH CAP SPACE TO SIGN DWADE. I CAN SEE IT HAPPENING. IN 2 YEARS SHAQ WILL RETIRE AND WHY WOULD WADE STAY IN MIAMI? WILL HAVE THE ROOM AND YOUNG TALENT TO SURROUND WADE AND WIN MORE CHAMPIONSHIPS THEN.
KLBeast,
Look at Pierce, the guy is pure class, loyal as hell to Boston and now is being rewarded. I appreciate how Pierce conducted himself in Boston (unlike kobe in LA) with his trade demand if not given the veteran help Pierce so desired. Pierce basically said the same thing as kobe and boom, Ray Allen and Keven Garnett are playing alongside Pierce. I’m actually going to root for Boston next year because I really like Pierce, Allen and Garnett……all class guys.
I HAVE TO SAY THIS IS A STORY BOOK ENDING. THREE UNSELFISH GUYS WHO PUT IN ALL THE WORK ARE NOW ALL BEING REWARDED. AND I GUESS RAY ALLEN GOT THE LAST LAUGH ABOUT OLD KOBIATCH.
Kobeyashi
"Sad when your team does not have a single player that other teams desire or want to trade for"
AND IT'S SAD THAT KOBE WANTED TO BE THE MAN AFTER 2004 AND NOW AS BEING THE MAN, HE HAS SENT OFF ALL ROLE PLAYERS, CAN'T BUY A FREE AGENT, AND GETTING "F-U" FROM EVERY POTENTIAL. YOU'RE RIGHT IT'S SAD TO BE IN THE #1 AND CAN'T LEAD YOUR TEAM OUT OF THE FIRST ROUND.
Posted by: Gunner | July 31, 2007 at 02:52 PM
LakerBake...Thanks.
The problem still....
Even AK/BK brothers still thing that sticking with Odom is better than JOneal.
Is a incredible- ingenuous appreciation.
JOneil never had played with a player like Kobe who atract double and triple team each trip to the offensive side.
O" Neill is the perfect second best player in a team.
Lakers fails to recognize that Garnett didn't wanted to come here for one solely reason: Kobe would eclipse him. If Kobe did it with Shaq and the 3 hall of famers together, Garnet is a piece of Cake. In Boston he will still be called the big ticket.
Do you think that Garnett doesn't know what everybody knows in the country outside of Jerry Buss, Jim Buss and MItch....that Lakers are attach to some NBDL players that nobody would play in other teams?
Garnett did what is best for him...Lakers are now fooled in double way, they had JO in the table, Jason KIdd, Boozer...and still thinking that Lamar Odom is Pippen, or that he will develop..and bla bla bla.
Lamar is and will be a underachiever.
Two of his comrades in the Miami Heat, Caron and Wade developed already in all star and Superstar...what about the poor Lamar, he can't even be a consistent dude as # 2 with the Lakers.
I will tell you why....
Of those three fantastics from Miami Heat...
Lamar have the weakest mind and heart.
Lamar doesn't have a consistent outside shot .
He isn't a good power forward neither a good small forward.
This ambiguity makes him a perennial underachiever.
i don't know why Phil and Lakers still buying his upsides. Lamar said at the end of the season that he will do whatever they want him to do, even if he doesn't like it. The way he likes to play and see himself as a basketball player is the way he is playing right now.
Why can't we see this?
Sooner JO will be out of market too. I can hear the same "Oh, is too much Lamar+Bynum for him".
Lamar will be injured starting the season...rumors trades will appear again and he will sit out for 2 months and will comeback after the all star break to avoid being traded.
Posted by: jorema | July 31, 2007 at 02:53 PM
KL
I know you're a big man fan, but do you really think that Shaq's going to earn his check the next couple of seasons? He's obviously going to destroy Miami like a has-been (as opposed to never-was) Jim McIlvaine.
I think the Heat have effectively mortgaged Wade's future for a high risk shot at a ring with Shaq. It worked. Barely. Not a formula for lasting success. Not where the Lakers should have gone.
Posted by: The D | July 31, 2007 at 02:54 PM
EXCERPT FROM KEVIN GARNETT. A TRUE LEADER
""I am excited to become a Celtic," Garnett said. "It's wonderful to have the opportunity to play with players the quality of Paul and Ray. The Celtics have had a proud tradition and now I hope that we can add to the legacy."
WHY ISN'T IT EXCITING TO BECOME A LAKER AND PLAY WITH KOBIATCH?
YOU SEE HE SAID, "WE CAN ADD TO THE LEGACY" NOT, ADDING TO KOBE'S LEGACY.
Posted by: Gunner | July 31, 2007 at 02:54 PM
thomas aka laker nation and all naysayers,
The Lakers have not gone to hell.
Next year's model is better than last year's model.
We will make the playoffs next year at a higher seed than last year. We should make the second round. There will be further improvements.
I know it hurts to lose KG to the Celtics. How could it not? It's just not right. At least we didn't lose him to the Suns or the Mavericks.
What is at stake is not next season. What is at stake is the long-term cohesion of the Lakers.
Unless Phil Jackson pulls some magic out of his butt and Andrew Bynum makes a leap forward and Kwame Brown plays like its a contract year (which he will) and Lamar Odom begins to dominate AND Rad Vlad proves to be far more than a complete waste of skin, but someone other players are intimidated by... unless all these things happen, Kobe is going to have a narcissistic psychological meltdown.
As a result, Kobe will undermine our team and force the front office into decisions they don't want to make which do not favor the long-term health of the organization.
In addition, the present personalities of the front office will be at each other's throats over past issues such as the ill-analyzed Heat trade or the overly optimistic Wizards trade or the "what were you thinking?" Nets trade that didn't happen.
As a result, the Buss Family implodes the Lakers get sold to the Kraft Cheese Corporation or some other abomination and this becomes a Clippers town.
(Hey, I love the Clippers! But this is and should always be a Lakers town.)
I pray that Kobe, Phil Jackson, Dr. Buss, Andrew Bynum, Jim Buss, and Lamar Odom realize that there are factors far more important than ego at stake here.
What is at stake is the heart of the greatest franchise in sports history... and the psychological welfare of people like you and I.
Compromise. Word hard. Move forward. And WIN.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon Kavulic | July 31, 2007 at 02:55 PM
Angry Laker,
No, I don't think Kobe is stupid. I also never said Kobe would be okay with going to anywhere. I don't see him becoming an Atlanta Hawk anytime soon. But there's certainly a middle ground between going anywhere and being willing to consider about 3 teams max. And if Kobe were willing to open those parameters a little, he could find himself getting want I imagine he still wants sooner rather than later.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | July 31, 2007 at 02:55 PM
LakerBake:
"BUILD the best you can around KOBE.
(That's what mgmt says they are doing and WE SHOULD do it.)"
The NBA is not run like RealGM. You can not just make trades that will improve your team automatically, especially when you are the Lakers and nobody in the league wants to see you succeed again. In the draft, you either have to get lucky like the Spurs and have a second round pick turn out to be phenomenal or you have to become a bottom feeder for several years and have top ten picks like the Blazers or Celtics. We've always been fairly middle of the pack and considering what we've had to work with, we haven't done that bad at all. Considering that free agent signing is the smallest percentage of player movement to contending teams, you're left with trades and the draft.
And trading Kobe and rebuilding is NOT nuts. It's what we may have to resort to if we want to contend in the future. We've had to rebuild before and that got us back to the Finals several years later.
Posted by: generic_one | July 31, 2007 at 02:56 PM
Kobe should take a year off. Maybe we can do well in the lottery.
Posted by: Kobe Apologist | July 31, 2007 at 02:56 PM
If Kareem molds Andrew Bynum into a Second Coming of the Captain (aka Luke Skywalker to Obi Wan Kenobi) then he deserves a statue four feet taller than the one of Magic outside Staples.
Do it, Cap! We need you!
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon Kavulic | July 31, 2007 at 02:59 PM
everyone on this blog gots they panties all in a bunch. KG [and Ray Allen] going to Boston is the best thing to happen to the Lakers this summer! its taken 20 years, but THE CLASSIC RIVALRY IS BACK WITH A 21st CENTURY TWIST!
the Kobe, Lamar, Bynum led Lakers
vs.
the Pierce, Allen, Garnett led Celtics
---> a preview of the 2009 Finals!
GAME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Flagrant Fowl | July 31, 2007 at 03:00 PM
generic_one,
if we don't want to mortgage our future, that's fine.
then start shopping kobe, and let's start building this team around bynum.
the lakers TALK about building around kobe, yet they DO nothing to show it.
kobe does not need another perimeter player on his team (which is what lamar is).
kobe does not need a young project center who may or may not have what it takes.
kobe needs a quality inside presence who could help alleviate defensive pressure on the perimeter.
i don't know much, but the last time the lakers had phil jackson, kobe bryant and a dominant inside presence - it went pretty well. i think it yielded three titles in a row...
lamar is a good player, no debating that.
he just doesn't fit the right formula for this current roster to become contenders.
_________________________________
props to the celtics for landing ray allen and kg in one summer.
yeah a lot of stars aligned correctly for them to do this.
they also had a bunch of courage to just go for it with 3 aging superstars.
after 15 years, i am sure they had enough of waiting for their future to become their present.
props to ainge for his persistence.
mchale is a jackass.
Posted by: tha show | July 31, 2007 at 03:02 PM
"O'neal is not ideal for our team, '
When i read statements like this from bloggers here...I wonder if Lakers fans are too ingenuous or dumb. They aren't. But they don't know a bit about basketball.
When Miami played against Indiana O'neill schooled Odom and and he was the deciding factor.
JO is a perennial All star second round playoffs baller alongside some dubious players.
If the Lakers don't trade for O'neill and keep the same crap...
Is useless for Kobe to fight and believe that this franchise is in the right track. I will support Kobe trade. There isn't an y doubt that this franchise is now in the downfall...thanks to a bloated vision and the Batman and Robin falsified incarnation of courage and smartness.
Posted by: jorema | July 31, 2007 at 03:03 PM
AK, I am glad you have re-established my 'Faith' ( No pun intended)
Please can you come with your best educated guess at what teams are able to provide the players & cash for any legitimate Kobe trade to go through. P.s do you think Chicago are stocking up on bodies to make a deal before training camp!!!
Aaarrrhhhh!!
Angry_Laker
Posted by: Angry_Laker | July 31, 2007 at 03:07 PM
Jon Kavulic,
yep this year's model will be better than last year's.
by adding d fish and mihm, the lakers have essentially added power windows and an extra cup holder.
would be nice if they could upgrade their engine from a 4 banger to at least a v6.
adding o'neal would do that.
Posted by: tha show | July 31, 2007 at 03:08 PM
I have to agree im glad this KG thing is out of the way, I do believe that Mchale did favor Boston cuz he wanted to help them and see the reach the big time again so…..
With that said I agree with you AK on some of your points, I do agree that a trade for JO is not the right move for what there asking for. I think the trade only works if we keep LO then we have three legit players. I also agree making a hasty move will not help us but hurt us in the long run.
I don’t agree with trading Kobe at this point, we have a slightly better team than last yr and I think we will play better next year. First round exit maybe, second round appearance I hope so. I think we need to see what develops over the year to gauge how are players play, and asset there trade value. No team is going to trade a good player for a speculated good player, that’s what the regular season is for to show the goods.
I agree with some posters here a good trade needs to happen; a positive trade needs to happen. One that improves the team over all, a lot of you say we need a better power forward I agree; moving Lamar to small forward is a better fit. We need to move Cook and other players in a trade to help with that position. I also agree, why do we have so many guards, and now with a full roster we cant get anybody else to help with our needed problems so.
With that said maybe Mitch has something up his sleeve (fingers crossed) a trade is coming not a big trade but a smart one that improve the team, in its needed areas and clears rosters spots for some vets. I’m going to stay positive and hope a good trade happens hopefully this summer, if not im willing to wait till February. Patiance is key Lakers fans, and I know we have it cuz we lived through the 90’s
It’s the name on the front of the jersey that matters not the one the back
-Kobe Bryant
Lakers 4 life
Posted by: pruple&gold 4 eva | July 31, 2007 at 03:09 PM
I hate to say this....but what Mitch has acquired this off season is a joke...
How can we even think of being better?...I love Fish, but I don't know if he's any better than Smush ( obviously the Heat think he's okay)..certainly more athletic than Fish, but not as smart....so we resigned Luke, Fish, Koby Karl, and and and...and Boston gets Garnett and Ray Allen......guess I can't blame Kobe for being upset....just wish he had handled it better.
When will we be rewarded with a good GM...?....until this front office changes, I doubt we get better......Vlad, Luke, etc etc......and I love Fish, but I don't think it helps...he's older and not as good as he was.....but I love him!!!
Posted by: Kate | July 31, 2007 at 03:11 PM
I'm not at all concerned about the Celtics finally signing Garnett. We don't need him. I've said that since day one.
Posted by: troy | July 31, 2007 at 03:11 PM
AK, Generic_one, Ex,
Let's say the Lakers re-examine the "trade Kobe" stance, and for whatever reason he opens up his list of teams he would be willing to go to. What deals are left out there that we would want and other teams would make? I can't think of one that would make much sense to us, in the way that the KG deal made sense to Minny (prospects, expiring, draft picks). I think what we might end up having to do is have the "big contract" in the deal be up in two years, to be in conjunction with LO's expiring.
Chicago has the youth that we would like, but the only big contract is Ben Wallace. The Knicks? Stephon Marbury expires in two years, but with Kobe on the same team as Curry and Randolph their draft pick would be in the 20's and their prospects aren't that good. We would have to start thinking Western Conference teams in order for us to get anything of any value.
Any way you look at it, it isn't pretty. From the Buss' office down to Kobe's living room in Newport, everyone has painted themselves into an ugly corner.
Posted by: Andrew Z | July 31, 2007 at 03:11 PM
The D
"I know you're a big man fan, but do you really think that Shaq's going to earn his check the next couple of seasons? He's obviously going to destroy Miami like a has-been (as opposed to never-was) Jim McIlvaine."
i actually agree with you that shaq has seen his better days. i think 2-3 year max as a solid #2, then no more shaq-daddy.
"I think the Heat have effectively mortgaged Wade's future for a high risk shot at a ring with Shaq. It worked. Barely. Not a formula for lasting success. Not where the Lakers should have gone."
agreed again, but at least they've got a ring to show for it. look, once shaq's out, if wade wants a new home, I'll all for Wade to LA.
Posted by: KLBeast | July 31, 2007 at 03:13 PM
jorema,
well said. i have no clue how people even try to compare a perennial all-star player in jermaine o'neal and a good yet inconsistent underachieving player like odom.
i think people are confusing odom's unique size and skills with great size and skills.
unique and great are not synonyms the last time i checked.
jermaine o'neal would be a GREAT addition.
i'll take kobe & jo over kobe, lamar & socks any day of the week.
we've been "waiting" for kg to come to la. well that ship has passed, let's make sure we don't miss the next one.
btw, the pacers may have upped the asking price now that they have the only stud power forward on the market.
great job again kupchak.
no guts, no glory.
i'd rather go out guns blazing like the celtics than wait another 5 seasons to see if bynum is the real deal.
and if we are to wait on bynum, he better not only be good BUT GREAT.
because we are essentially placing more value on bynum's future than kobe's present.
and the key difference is kobe is a proven great player. yet the lakers seem to be mortgaging their title chances an unproven player.
make the deal for jermaine o'neal.
jermaine o'neal is a better basketball player than lamar odom.
he is also a better fit with this team.
and if giving the pacers andrew bynum seals the deal, then proceed.
i know what i get from kobe right now. adding o'neal would only improve kobe's ability on the floor.
i may not know what i getting from bynum for another 4 seasons...
Posted by: tha show | July 31, 2007 at 03:17 PM
How management are eager to continue with the same predicament and same players of a team that is obvioulsy a Atlanta Haw wannabe if Kobe is out.?
How the don't take in account Phil opinion;
Players of this team "no brain or worm brains" quote.
Kobe opinion that the train need to be stopped.
...Jim Buss and Jerry Buss...will die before recognizing is all their fault.
Jerry will claim: "Look my record, my friends A winner".
Yes, a winner but that need to prove he can't win without Jerry West calling the shots in the GM office.
Posted by: jorema | July 31, 2007 at 03:18 PM
tha show:
"i don't know much, but the last time the lakers had phil jackson, kobe bryant and a dominant inside presence - it went pretty well."
I sincerely hope you are not comparing JO to Shaq. And as the 02/03 and 03/04 seasons proved, that kind of tandem isn't going to get it done any more without a couple more guys above mere roleplayer status.
Posted by: generic_one | July 31, 2007 at 03:21 PM
Give Bynum a chance. Jermaine O'Neal was once thought of like Andrew Bynum
From the Sporting News, September 11, 2000
Pacers' move for O'Neal might pay off-in 2003 - Indiana Pacers trade for Jermaine O'Neal
(http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_37_224/ai_65278109)
"{S}ometimes, you have to move on. Hence, Dale Davis, All-Star, age 31, was traded for the erstwhile Portland spectator known as Jermaine O'Neal, age 21.
"We're not rebuilding--we're renovating," explains Walsh, who calls O'Neal a "diamond in the rough," and opines that not many people know how good he is.
"True enough, but everybody knows how good Davis is. On a weak rebounding team, one that didn't have a rebounding center, he grabbed 9.9 per game, and his growth even recently haS been extraordinary. O'Neal haS been a little-used insurance policy for four seasons, an athletic and versatile kid who still is growing--he's up to 6-11,240--with some potential as a starting-quality center.
"If Smits quits, O'Neal will be force-fed the job, if only because a Sam Perkins-Zan TabakJoe Kleine tag team doesn't exactly stir passions. But that's a crisis for another time. There already is plenty of risk, because there is no way of knowing what O'Neal can do. Even Portland coach Mike Dunleavy can only say that O'Neal is undeniably talented and needs to play--a lot--and he agrees it's high time someone gave O'Neal the chance after being a bench ornament for four difficult seasons."
Is Bynum that good? We'll see this year.
Posted by: Jeff | July 31, 2007 at 03:23 PM
why do we have so many guards
Posted by: pruple&gold 4 eva | July 31, 2007 at 03:27 PM
I thing that Lakers should grant KL Beast wish..
We should rebuild around Luke Walton and make him the cornerstone of this franchise.
As he say...doesn't matter if you win or not...is how you play, how you loose.
You can be mediocre but if you praise love, peace and understanding you are already a winner.
Posted by: jorema | July 31, 2007 at 03:29 PM
Boston did give up a lot. Minnesota got a lot and probably won't be any worse this year than if they still had Garnett. And they can build if they get lucky with their draft picks.
I still wish the Lakers had been more active with the FA,s but that would have meant dealing Cook and Sasha, etc. And realistically who would want them?
I would have liked to see a run at Desmond Mason before the Bucks got him back. And if we had the space, Ime Udoka, Posey, and Pietrus.
Oh well...
Posted by: Andy B | July 31, 2007 at 03:30 PM
i don't know why my post result twisted grammatically after I post them,
Posted by: jorema | July 31, 2007 at 03:32 PM
tha show,
We wont' get Jermaine O'Neal without losing Lamar Odom. It's not worth it. Quite frankly, I believe that Lamar Odom has a higher potential than Jermaine O'Neal. Unfortunately, Lamar has been too disstracted by personal tragedies to reach that level.
This year's model has so much potential, but it needs leadership and mentorship.
That leader is not Kobe Bryant.
It is Phil Jackson, Kurt Rambis, and Kareem Abdul-Jabaar.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon Kavulic | July 31, 2007 at 03:32 PM
Mark My words, the Celtics are making the finals. KG was our man and he is gone, and gone to a great team. Im happy for KG because he has a chance to win for a championship. All laker fan should be kicking themselves in the knee. He was our championship ticket with Kobe, now he is our rivalry ticket to a championship.
I am so torn with what the lakers need to do. But we have to be bold with our next move. I want to see what bynum has.
You guys can check KG's press conferecnce on NBA.com. Paul, Ray and KG are there. They know what it is.
Posted by: wow | July 31, 2007 at 03:38 PM
This was suppose to be Kobe and KG's press conference. This is so unfair. I cant even believe its official. KG was suppose to be a laker, now he is part of the celtic pride. We missed out on our furure.
Posted by: wow | July 31, 2007 at 03:41 PM
Andrew Z:
Ideally, I would have liked to see a big expiring contract come our way this season. Agent Zero has said that he's going to opt out once his contract is up, and while not a replacement for Kobe, he's certainly a pretty decent option.
As far as where to trade him, I'd have to look through the roster list of each team to see who's gone where. It's too bad that Chicago let go of PJ Brown. He could have re-signed for three years with team options the second and third year for $8-9 mill or so, which would have taken up a pretty big chunk of the salary needed in the trade.
But yeah, I agree with you. We've put ourselves in an interesting situation and unless the Lakers have some sort of turnaround miracle season, we're going to have to see about trading Kobe next summer to avoid losing him for nothing.
Posted by: generic_one | July 31, 2007 at 03:41 PM
Laker Blake,
When you say "Defensively speaking, The Zen Master sells nothing he does not have the personnel to excute. He's sold minimal defense for 2 yrs.
Payton told us all that he doesn't practice defense" what are you basing this on?
Last season, starters Walton, Brown and Odom were all hobbled from injuries and didn't have the athleticism. Bench warmers like VladRad, Cook, and Sasha couldn't remember their assignments. And mental case Smush Parker couldn't remember to pay attention to anything. Gary Payton's word means nothing to me.
Keeping in tact a team that already knows the Triangle allows for plenty of time to coach and practice D.
If Jermaine O'Neal can be had for a fair price, fine. But I don't think he will add a significant number of W's in the regular season or the playoffs.
A panic move just for the sake of change could lead to a longer term disaster. A lot can happen between now and next summer and the Lakers are stronger by keeping their options open for what may be available later.
Posted by: Rick Friedman | July 31, 2007 at 03:41 PM
Andrew Z,
Where would Kobe realistically consider going? Chicago seems like the location which could make sense for both teams. But they appear to be on the right track, and probably don't want to risk it.
Gen-one,
FYI, a sixteen-ton weight is very effective against a zombie armed with loganberries.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 31, 2007 at 03:42 PM
generic_one,
during those 02/03 and 03/04 you referred to, would you agree and say that the lakers were still title contenders?
is jermaine o'neal equivalent to a prime shaq o'neal?
of course not.
yet i believe adding o'neal would definitely catapult the lakers into true contenders.
some say adding o'neal would only make us a 2nd round exit team.
by writing that, they are already admitting the lakers would be a better team.
with the most dominant perimeter player in the game, adding a great inside presence on both ends of the floor, would make this a much better team.
why don't people understand that?
but to say jermaine o'neal is not a clearly better basketball player than lamar odom is simply being loyal to lamar odom - nothing more.
lamar seems to be a great guy (i really don't know him) who has been through a lot in the last year and a half.
what i do know is that his type game is not needed on the lakers.
an inside presence is needed.
a true power forward is needed.
and one is available right now.
Posted by: tha show | July 31, 2007 at 03:44 PM
This Celtics big three are great teammates. There is no way they dont accomplish winning a championship. Three superstars that are unselfish are on the same team. That is unbelieveable. All lakers especially starting with Kobe have to check themselves.
Posted by: wow | July 31, 2007 at 03:48 PM
Kobe Bryant to the Clippers for Elton Brand, Corey Maggette and two unconditional 1st round picks. The downgrade at SG isn't as bad as it could be, and is more than offset by the upgrade at PF. We get to shift LO to small forward, keep Bynum and Kwame's expiring for later deals.
Kobe and Clippers are still relevant with Kaman, Cassell, Mobley and company.
We could even throw in Sasha Vujacic to sweeten the deal.
Posted by: Andrew Z | July 31, 2007 at 03:48 PM
Jon Kavulic,
so our leaders are:
phil jackson: a great coach who needs GREAT players to win championships. he only has one great player right now, and the lakers are a bubble playoff team. funny how that works. that is not a slight on phil, every coach needs great players to win titles.
kurt rambis: oh yeah, i want the guy who couldn't even beat out reggie theus for the sactown queens gig leading my team. kurt rambis was a hustle player, i wish we he was playing for us right now. i certainly do not want this guy to become the head coach of this team.
kareem abdul-jabbar: a great player who has tried to become a coach - but can't seem to grasp it. and this is not a slight on jabbar, most great players who gave coaching a shot have failed miserably.
you might as well have added kupchak and jimmy buss to that list.
the lakers true leader is phil jackson, i agree with you.
however, phil will not be able to lead to the best of his abilities with the mediocre roster we have now.
point blank.
Posted by: tha show | July 31, 2007 at 03:49 PM
Garnett will be a celtic till atleast 2012, he is to sign a 3 year extension on top of his deal which has 2 years still remaining. Just overnight the celts are light years ahead of the lakes, go figure..
Posted by: Violater | July 31, 2007 at 03:50 PM
Life long laker fan here. I've never posted.
Today I officially have lost faith in the front office. We are drowning fast--and it speaks volumes about the organization when the Celtics have moved ahead of us terms of talent and we have done nothing!!!! Dammit. Mitch doesn't have it. Jim doesn't have it. What a sad time to be laker fan.
Posted by: swanworld | July 31, 2007 at 03:50 PM
Andrew Z,
"We could even throw in Sasha Vujacic to sweeten the deal."
I chuckled.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | July 31, 2007 at 03:51 PM
Andrew Z,
"We could even throw in Sasha Vujacic to sweeten the deal."
For who?
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 31, 2007 at 03:52 PM
pruple&gold 4 eva:
"why do we have so many guards"
Because someone has to control the inmates in this asylum.
Posted by: The D | July 31, 2007 at 03:54 PM
Andrew Z,
I like that trade. I would still like to work it our with Kobe for at least a year but if he wants out, out you go.
I dont think adding Sasha would "sweeten" the deal for the Clips un less you meant sweeten the deal for us.
Peace
Posted by: Charles | July 31, 2007 at 03:55 PM
The ONLY trade that would be remotely exceptable for Kobe is either durant or oden, Lebron is too established and the future so cleveland wont let him go, no not even for yours truly kobe bryant. If miami was smart they would do it for wade but considering a couple things... it wont happen. Other then that i am not a fan of trading kobe for 4 or 5 higher talent guys, if you cant go 1 for 1 you do 1 for 2 or 2 for 3, but not kobe for 3-5 mediocre starters, no way jose.
Posted by: Violater | July 31, 2007 at 03:57 PM
I have all the faith in the world for things to work out eventually with the Lakers...not necessarily with Jim Buss or the FO as presently constructed...but I'm just wondering how a team that couldn't build a winning team around one of the greatest players of our time...can build around "Andrew Bynum." Seriously!
Let say we trade Kobe, and get picks...I don't trust them to pick wisely. I don't trust their ability to get players here (and money has a LOT to do with that). So where does that leave us???
It's not gonna be pretty. Not at all. Chris Kaman ugly for sure.
Posted by: Faith | July 31, 2007 at 03:58 PM
ex:
And all this time, I thought we just needed a bigger boat.
tha show:
"during those 02/03 and 03/04 you referred to, would you agree and say that the lakers were still title contenders?"
I'd agree, but barely. We got stomped by the Spurs that first year, though a lot of it had to do with injuries. 03/04 we barely got by the Wolves and then slaughtered by Detroit.
"some say adding o'neal would only make us a 2nd round exit team.
by writing that, they are already admitting the lakers would be a better team."
Yeah, but it's not going to get better than that. 2nd round would pretty much be the most improved that we would be could get with that trade. And it's not going to be JUST LO and Bynum for JO. You can guarantee that they want something else (Farmar, Critt, or Turiaf), just like AK already mentioned.
Posted by: generic_one | July 31, 2007 at 03:58 PM