Salary Cap link

Excellent. Now we won't have the situation where 4 of every 5 trade proposals posted here are completely impossible. That problem is fixed 100%, there's no doubt whatsoever. :)

McGarnagle,

I know. It's pretty amazing how I made that issue disappear in one fell swoop. haha

AK

AK,

Dude, this is WAY informative. Beautiful.

The problem is that it is WAY informative. Long. Complicated. Wordy. And a little confusing.

Maybe this is what Mitch's problem is; wading through all the Salary Cap rules.

--FearlessWhackJob

How bout Sasha for KG, and then on the side, get Yi for some future picks and Kwame? Hold on, lemme check the link, I'll be back next season...

Regarding this NBA gambling scandal.

I'm WILLING TO BET that the only person involved is Donaghy, however THE ODDS of a wider conspiracy is 3.5:1. the issue at hand, FOR A BETTING MAN, would be the integrity of legal SPORTS BOOK in LAS VEGAS, ATLANTIC CITY, etc. in the end, MY MONEY'S on the "rogue" employee theory. I have full faith in Commissioner Stern who generally HOLDS THE CARDS and carries a heavy HOUSE ADVANTAGE.

I believe the integrity of the NBA will be a SAFE BET in the foreseeable future. Wanna bet?

haha, thanks AK, a little light reading before bed.

What does anyone make of this comment by Mo Williams?

“Being here in Milwaukee is different from going to a new team,” Williams said. “I mean, we all see Miami from the outside looking in and say, ’OK, they’ve got Pat Riley in Miami.’ But people don’t know, everything that looks good on the outside, everything is not peaches and cream on the other side of the field. So I felt like at the same time, I know what to expect here.”

What does he know about the Heat that we don't know? We know Donaghy's a bad apple, but who's the bad peach in Miami? And who's the spoiled cream?

Hey, it must be really bad if Milwaukee is the better solution.

JOREMA,
"Kobe doesn't need this farse. Let the lebrones, the A-rods or the Saratovas get the plaques. If they want to promote Lebron as the last coke in a dessert and give him another 3 awards for playing that well in just one game of the CLEVELAND-Detroit series, fine."

THE DIARRHEA IS STILL FLOWING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH!

IS THAT THE BEST ANALYSIS YOU CAN GIVE FOR YOUR KOBIATCH.

FACE IT! HE'S NOT AS POPULAR AS YOUR SO-CALLED 1999 FORBES MAGAZINES MISGUIDED YOU.

THE FANS HAVE SPOKEN. "- -" KOBE!

YOU FILL IN THE BLANKS

Beast,

Your previous post was eternally optimistic, however misguided.

"I have fulll faith in Commissioner Stern"

Yea me too. I have full faith, whether the Commissioner is indictable or not, that he, in order to protect the the "integrity" of the game (and his own image and legacy) will tell us as few names and details as he can get away with, and most of you will become his apologists,

When what we should doing is seizing this opportunity -not only- to get to the bottom of any and all cheating, but also to carefully re-evaluate the whole officiating system and implement changes where needed, now. Those who are never tormented or exasperated by totally groundless calls made by NBA referees are good to go.

Sonnybelfast

Here's a spillover from the last thread, in case anyone's interested:

In the same sentence, Lautréamont wrote,

"beau comme la rétractilité des serres des oiseaux rapaces"

This seems to me more appropriate to the blog. It translates:

"Beautiful like the retractability of raptors' claws"

Nothing to do with Toronto, of course, a raptor being a carnivorous bird like a hawk (nothing to do with Atlanta).

We seem to be witnessing the beautiful retraction of KL's claws.

repost from a previous thread because typepad didn't work

KL,

In response to my post you said: i agree with you 100%. the problem is that i don't consider shaq to be lazy (maybe fat, but not lazy). i think this "lazy and fat" crap was kobe's way to discredit shaq so kobe can be the leader. so in a way, you and i agree and disagree.

*I* consider Shaq to be lazy. Phil Jackson has criticized his work ethic.
The entire Miami Heat basketball team picked up on his ethic by believing
they could turn it on and off when they wanted to. The belief that one
can turn it on and off indicates that every lose ball is not important. Every
game is not important. This leads to coasting on some games. Hence:
LAZY! But perhaps I'm wrong ... Let's take this from a different view ...
Please name a part of Shaq's game that he has modified/improved recently.

Part of our/your dialogue was: "The 2nd year he was carried by D-wade and crooked refs"

i hope you were joking?

No. Actually I'm not. D-Wade single handedly won the championship with
all of the "bad breath" calls made on behalf of D-Wade. He shot more
free throws than anyone else and almost more than the entire Mavericks
team. Shaq's performance was nothing like his performance with the
Lakers. When is the last time Shaq scored 40 pts in a game? How
about 30 pts in a game? How many blocks is he averaging? How many
minutes is he averaging? How many games is he averaging? Without
D-Wade the miami heat would have lost to Dirk & Co.

You also said: honestly, do these guys in the NBA really deserve the money they get? hell kwame butterfingers' gets 9 mil a year. if i had 1 mil in cash right now, i can reitire and never have to work again. look, shaq's time is about to set and the 20 million isn't necessarily what he brings now, but what he's brought over his entire NBA career, which i think it's work more than 20 million a year.

While you don't always get what you pay for you pay for what you get.
I believe in the final 3 years of Jordan on the Bulls he was making 30 mil/yr.
While I wouldn't have wanted to pay him, he earned every cent. He gave
110% all year long. Kobe is giving 110% all year long. Shaq is not. He
was worth 20 mil/yr when he was playing for his first 2 championships.
After that ... Nope. He was a slacker. He is a slacker. He'll be remembered
as the "Big Slacker".

I discovered the Larry Coon FAQ maybe a year or so ago and the message board on www.realgm.com , wow is that an informed bunch of people. The recent Kurt Thomas trade is a good example of the use of a trade exemption and how valuable they are (how trade exemptions work is the number one topic).

Question: Did the Lakers officially renounce Smush (does one have to renounce an unrestrictedd free agent?) to gain cap room?

I'll concede that there's a chance I misunderstood something in the article, but I think it means that we can essentially get Garnett and Kidd straight up for Kwame, Cook and a Family Pak of Mrs. Paul's Breaded Fish Sticks.

To make this work, we'll move Lamar to the 3 and start Bynum at 5. Of course, as a rookies, Crittenden will have to make a run for more fish sticks before snack time.

Thanks AK. I guess that's a little light reading. Maybe, just maybe, it will kill some of the ridiculous trade proposals thrown out here.

What did you think of Stern's performance yesterday?

Hello Blog, Mambas, AK,BK and all the others...

Guys some of you probably read this already, but check this out and imagine that every place that said Miami was replace by LA. Imagine the kind of field day we woud be having on this blog today. Here it is:

"Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: "Point guard Mo Williams said he considered his free-agent trip to Miami a "mini-vacation" and that he always was fairly certain he would return to the Milwaukee Bucks. Williams was resplendent in a light gray suit as he addressed reporters on Tuesday, moments after signing a six-year, $52 million contract. The deal includes player options after the fourth and fifth seasons and will make the 24-year-old Williams a critical part of the Bucks' immediate future. Although Miami president and coach Pat Riley made his best recruiting pitch to Williams, the 6-foot-1 guard said he had to be pushed to even make the visit to South Beach. "The funny thing about it, I didn't want to go in the first place," Williams said. "I was saying, 'Let's get it done with Milwaukee.'" But agent Mark Bartelstein convinced Williams to at least consider the Heat, which desperately wanted to add a point guard to a lineup featuring Dwyane Wade and Shaquille O'Neal. Miami was over the salary cap and could offer a maximum of $31.4 million on a five-year deal."

South Florida Sun-Sentinel: "Asked about bypassing the opportunity to play for Pat Riley and alongside Shaquille O'Neal and Dwyane Wade, Williams offered the type of response that gave pause. "I mean, we all see Miami from the outside looking in and say, 'OK, they've got Pat Riley in Miami,' " Williams said. "But people don't know, everything that looks good on the outside, everything is not peaches and cream on the other side of the field." A way of re-ingratiating himself in Milwaukee? Possibly. But he did re-sign with the Bucks after talking with Riley, the only coach in the NBA yet to commit to next season. And Williams also is represented by agent Mark Bartelstein, who also represents Antoine Walker and James Posey, players suspended last season by Riley for failing to meet his seemingly draconian conditioning standards. Perhaps Williams' comment is much ado about nothing. Or perhaps the cynics have a point, that the luster is gone from a franchise where the coach waffles and South Beach no longer seduces."

ciao!

Mamba from the eastcoast

KL,

In regards to things you've said in other threads about Shaq vs. Kobe,
I give you another side dish from Hoopsworld:

South Florida Sun-Sentinel: "Asked about bypassing the opportunity to play for Pat Riley and alongside Shaquille O'Neal and Dwyane Wade, Williams offered the type of response that gave pause. "I mean, we all see Miami from the outside looking in and say, 'OK, they've got Pat Riley in Miami,' " Williams said. "But people don't know, everything that looks good on the outside, everything is not peaches and cream on the other side of the field." A way of re-ingratiating himself in Milwaukee? Possibly. But he did re-sign with the Bucks after talking with Riley, the only coach in the NBA yet to commit to next season. And Williams also is represented by agent Mark Bartelstein, who also represents Antoine Walker and James Posey, players suspended last season by Riley for failing to meet his seemingly draconian conditioning standards. Perhaps Williams' comment is much ado about nothing. Or perhaps the cynics have a point, that the luster is gone from a franchise where the coach waffles and South Beach no longer seduces."

You had made the point that no one wants to play with Kobe, but everyone
wants to play with Shaq. [ Perhaps everyone is a mild overstatement, but
let's not nitpik. ] Continuing from my earlier post: Shaq is fat & Lazy. Dr.
Buss made the call to get rid of Shaq because he was fat & lazy. Kobe
is not the root cause of Shaq leaving. When given the choice b/n playing
with someone who gives 110% every night vs. someone who is lazy, fat
old, busted and distracted with extra-curricular activities the wise choice
would be go to with the 110% player. Dr. Buss chose Kobe. Mr. Williams
did *NOT* choose Shaq.

what a boring off season for free agents and trades. i think we will see the same guys in uniform in october. woe is me. another 1st round knock out.

I was looking at the Laker's 2007-8 salaries and I noticed that Ronnie Turiaf's salary this year is blank. I'm wondering if there was a typo or is he a Free Agent now? I'm 100% positive he does not want to go anywhere else, but the fact that there has been NO word on Turiaf or his contract that I was wondering what his status is right now. Will anyone with knowledge, please drop it like its hot!

If Stern wanted to "FIX" the NBA, he would have started with somehow getting New York the number one pick. His desperation before this scandal was in dealing with the laughable imabalance in the conferences and lack of major market fan base.

As Donaghy squeals, names and dates are revealed, about a sport where a foul could be called on every posession, "FIX" will replace "Tacos" as a 4th quarter chant at Staples. I'm betting that will get booed down. The slogan is right: fans love the game.

AK:

Nice! Now if we could just somehow find a way to get people to use tinyurl.com when posting an extra long url so the blog doesn't spaz out. Here are a couple other sites that are worth mentioning that could be helpful references:

Most up to date salary info (hoopshype is sometimes wrong):

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp

Great all-around basketball resource (in depth draft history, NBA regular season/post season history with full scores/lineups, individual player contract history and plenty of other cool stuff):

http://www.basketball-reference.com/

Excellent resource for individual and team efficiency:

http://82games.com/

Tsphere:

Lautréamont is certainly an interesting individual. The style is familiar to us through current poets, but you have to wonder what exactly sparked the initial inspiration to write in such a manner. I like to believe that it had something to do with inducing massive amounts of alcohol.

hobbit

thanks for the response. we'll have to disagree on shaq's so-called lazyiness. i have already conceded that shaq's time is passing (or has passed) as a dominant figure. the torch was passed in 2006 when MIAMI WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP notwithstanding the "crooked refs". I refuse to call anybody in pro sports (even amature) "lazy" because when i think of lazy, i think of the 20-something who has a 75% body fat content and uses a rascal (you know those scooters that old people use when their legs give out?) to get around. Oh, one more thing, i'm assuming your in your early 20s, but something myserious happens when one hits 30, the body slows down. Go back an look at every player (jordan, horry, shaq, kobe, etc) over the years, the body changes as one ages.

hal9000 - KL cannot squeeze water from a rock. What KL would do is squeeze the rock for about 5 hours, a drop of sweat would come out from his hands and he would tell you it's water.

sonnybelfast

thanks for the post. some of my stuff was schtick, but in all seriousness, cheating is part of gambling, always has been and alwasy will be. as a math guy, i figure the cost of cheating is "baked in" (finance jargon "priced in") to the odds. i really hope this is an isolated incident and believe the truth will be revealed since the Feds are investigating (as oppose to the NBA conducting an internal investigation). Have faith brother.

Hobbitmage, thanks for standing up for objectivity and reason.

KL,

much props for the kobe-less post. pretty funny take, actually. see, it can be done.

Gunner,

same ol same ol. maybe i overestimated your ability to write something that you haven't already written 50 times.

Re: Mo Williams comments on Miami,

I think there was 20.6 million reasons why Milwaukee looked better than Miami.

Also, everyone always gives the reason of "it's so much better to live in LA, Miami, etc. than Minnesota, Milwaukee, etc" as a reason a player would leave one team to play here or with the Heat. I find that extremely amusing. You have to realize one thing, every city in America is great to live in when you are rich. Period. It's when you're not super rich that cities like LA, Seattle, Portland, New York, etc. seem more attractive because there's a bigger variety of stuff to do and see and you have more financially reasonable options.

Believe me, even Cleveland and Detroit are damn nice when you make $15 million a year. And a chance for a ring is not worth $20.6 million to anyone. Just watch as Kobe realizes it and doesn't opt out.

"Is "Jorema" some kind of prophet spewing forth the true secrets of humanity in little tidbits between rants about Kobe and idiotic conspiracy theories" Taoshum

MR Taoshum...

Even a English as second language and shakerean look a like bimbo's like me , knows what is a context in any text.

Regarding that zip a lip, and medicine for "the lebronaire" it was in the context of answering one of KLBEAST" rants.

Hey...don't get me wrong....I understand you, and you are one of those guys who come here using three of 4 nicks, but those actions can cause sometimes a "brain mental lapse".

If you think you are that emeritus prophet with the mission to lecture everybody in their peccadilloes and little faults, don't take your job too seriously, specially if in that process your zealousness come across as simple stupidity.

Hail to you , Maestro!

hobbitmage ,

Lets be honest, your talking about Mo Williams here! He stayed with Milwaukee because they offered 20 million dollars more! He is going to take it and run. If all salary was equal, he would have chose Miami. It was ALL about the money.

Andrew Z,

I agree it was the money.

"Just watch as Kobe realizes it and doesn't opt out."

I wouldn't guarantee this though. He will still be young enough to make the same or more money if he opts out and signs with a contender. Depending on the team, he might get more money and have a chance to win.

Generic One,

Inspired by your suggestion to elaborate, I just now added links for the Hoopshype salary base, the ESPN Trade Machine and the RealGM Trade checker into the post, which can also be good for reference when proposing trades.

AK

Mamba24fan4life,

Lets not go the way of the haters and try and pin this on something being wrong in miami. Milwaukee offered 6 years at 52mil compared with 5 years at 31mil that miaimi was offering.

Seems like he had over 20 million good reasons to pick milwaukee :)

like i've said over and over...
Outside of the washed up ex-all star seeking desperately to win a ring, no one takes less money to play anywhere. Mo williams just another example.

Is this bad? no. Do I blame him/them? Not at all. Like kobester said when shaq left.."He's got to do whats best for him and his" And thats the truth, so can we finally put to rest this ludicrous idea that veterans are snubbing kobe by signing elsewhere.

Its money folks!

AK:

Yep! Those are pretty handy. It's a lot easier to use them instead of manually calculating salaries and how they balance out. They keep track of BYC and other trade stipulations which are huge factors in coming up with viable trade scenarios. I wonder if GM's around the league use them. That'd be kind of funny.

Hoopshype is generally correct with their salaries, but they're sometimes off with what type of options players have in a given year. Also, when those salaries are viewed, one has to keep in mind that the total amount on the bottom for any given year is without any salaries for players that have options.

I think that you may have linked the ESPN checker and Real GM checker together. Hovering the mouse over either shows the link as going to ESPN.

"Lautréamont is certainly an interesting individual. The style is familiar to us through current poets, but you have to wonder what exactly sparked the initial inspiration to write in such a manner. I like to believe that it had something to do with inducing massive amounts of alcohol" Generic.

Well say "Generic".
There a million of hands applauding you after that historic quote .
We can hear "the bravos", "the Ole's" wave, the people chanting your nick as a symbol of all what is correct, smart and well though.

But...hell...no...this is a blog. Just a blog. A site to entertain and be entertained about all things regarding the Lakers and basketball.

If you try to find a Mark Twain writing here, you will be like Kobe... depressed and talking non-sense.

By the way, usually people destroy my grammar or whatever, but not the logic of my posts.

I could say a lot of things about about your writing:
Like boring, inadequate,

Another point...if Hegel and Plato receive this criticism:
"The writings of Hegel and Plato abound in admittedly one-sided statements that are clearly meant to formulate points of view that are then shown to be inadequate and are countered by another perspective."
Walter Kaufmann .

If they question them...Why not criticizing me? Even if that criticism come from dubious sources, is nice to be mentioned, ultimately that's better than a total indiference.

The art of the critic in a nutshell: to coin slogans without betraying ideas. The slogans of an inadequate criticism peddle ideas to fashion.
Walter Benjamin

kobe apologist

"hal9000 - KL cannot squeeze water from a rock. What KL would do is squeeze the rock for about 5 hours, a drop of sweat would come out from his hands and he would tell you it's water."

very funny my mortal enemies.

taliq

"Lets not go the way of the haters and try and pin this on something being wrong in miami. Milwaukee offered 6 years at 52mil compared with 5 years at 31mil that miaimi was offering."

"hate" does not discriminate, it's a two-way street. i actually can see some validity with the miami comments. shaq's getting older and the Heats looked horrible in the playoffs plus the uncertainty with Riley. I say the heats got something to prove next year, i'm rooting for wade/shaq to recover physcally and mentally from the 2007 season. at least wade, shaq and company didn't go on an ESPN radio rant about management and the owner's incompetence.

We are done trading. We just have one spot open for signing someone. So link is too late...though we knew all along trade machine link..
Anyways guys post something new, like why did Andrew did not play in summer league. or what's going on with Brian Cook or Vlad, are they shooting something or just enjoying vacation. or What's up with Kwame or Sasha...
we heard about Chris and Luke and obviously we know about Kobe everyday...

jandro

"Outside of the washed up ex-all star seeking desperately to win a ring, no one takes less money to play anywhere. Mo williams just another example."

dude, "washed up" ex-all stars are the key to winning championships (case in point, miami in 2006 including shaq o'neal). do you really think it was a young kobe bryant that got us those champoinships? it was shaq anchoring the team, plus the role players (including kobe) of so-called "washed up" ex-all stars which got us there. you see, my young padwan, older guys realize the big picture while younger whippersnappers (like you!) seek the bling bling J-dawg.....

|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|_____________ OFFICIAL PRESIDENTIAL BALLOT__________________|
|______________ 2007-2008 KOBE HATERS CLUB___________________|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

NOMINEES FOR PRESIDENT:

(1) KL (also known as KLBeast, KLYeast)

Bio: KL's repuation as a Kobe Hater has made him a club favorite, and his creativity in finding ways to bash Kobe is second to none. He is also famous for coining the phrase "F-U Kobe".

(2) GUNNER (also known as gunner5, gunner24)

Bio: Gunner's "all caps" style of hating has brought him a lot of attention, and his unwavering hatred has gained him many fans in the Anti-Kobe community. His tendency to drench Kobe supporters in Haterade has helped to elevate his status as one of the fiercest Kobe Haters around.

VOTERS:

Ballots are open to all Laker Fans, regardless of Kobe preference.
All ballots must be in by 9:00PM PST on Thursday, July 25, 2007.
Please vote by indicating your preference in one post before the deadline.

Once the ballots have been counted, the winner will take office immediately and the loser will become vice president.

In the case of a tie, the candidates will duel in a mud-wrestling competition. The candidate who comes out with the most mud on their face will be declared the winner. Good luck and may the best hater win.

jorema:

"There a million of hands applauding you after that historic quote ."

In case it wasn't clear, I was talking about the actual Lautréamont. Not you. I think that was apparent since I was responding directly to Tsphere who had just posted another line written from him.

"By the way, usually people destroy my grammar or whatever, but not the logic of my posts."

I could care less about your grammar. A lot of people post on message boards whose first language isn't english. It's certainly not something to make fun of, as the people poking fun usually haven't bothered learning a second language well enough to be able to post on a message board.

As far as your logic is concerned, I'm not "destroying" it by any means. I agree with it for the most part, but sometimes it makes a round about path which reminded me of that particular Lautréamont line.

"I could say a lot of things about about your writing:
Like boring, inadequate,"

Well, that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it.

hal9000

"In the case of a tie, the candidates will duel in a mud-wrestling competition."

please arrange to have the Hooter girls attend the mud-wrestling contest. I like like Gunner, but not that much.

G1,

"I could say a lot of things about about your writing:
Like boring, inadequate,"

"inadequacy" is my middle name........oops, i'm thinking out loud again

zen,

"I wouldn't guarantee this though. He will still be young enough to make the same or more money if he opts out and signs with a contender. Depending on the team, he might get more money and have a chance to win."

Sorry, I disagree. Kobe is slated to make $23 and $24.8 million a year in the last two of his contract. There isn't one team in the league who could give him that much in salary let alone a contender (who is more than likely paying their own top players top dollar). He would more than likely be opting out and signing for the MLE if it's truly a contender he would want to go to. AND, at the point he opts out he'll be an "old" 31 with lots of miles on those legs, paying big money on a long term deal would be quite risky for any team. So, just in the first two years of his new contract Kobe would be leaving $35-$37 million on the table. I don't care how much money he's made to date, that would be a tough pill to swallow.

His only hope is to try and force a trade if he still wishes to leave, guaranteeing he keeps his salary.

you guys just don't take this Laker stuff seriously enough:

"Iraqi fans have been stocking up on gasoline and ammunition in preparation for their national soccer team's Asian Cup semi-final against South Korea."

Zen,

You said: Lets be honest, your talking about Mo Williams here! He stayed with Milwaukee because they offered 20 million dollars more! He is going to take it and run. If all salary was equal, he would have chose Miami. It was ALL about the money.

I understand that your *opinion* says it's all about money. Mo Williams,
James Posey & Antoine Walker all share the same agent. This should
mean that he would have a working relationship with the Miami Heat.
He would already have known the interest level for him and a ballpark
figure for what they would pay. Why would his agent force him to get
on a plane when he had an offer in hand from the Bucks?

My *opinion* is that his agent is trying to get him to a place where he
has a chance to be successful and get paid very well. His statements
seem to indicate that he didn't think Miami has a chance. Other basketball
people feel the same way. Oddly enough the Heat got swept in the
first round. This was a very poor showing for the defending champions.

Do you have any evidence to support your opinion or is this one of those
things that I'm supposed to take on faith [ not the hottie who posts on the blog. :) ] because it's soooo obvious?

Kl,

1. early 40's baby. still giving pain. still receiving pain. I will not go gently
into the night!

2. We have different definitions of Lazy. When I'm paying you $20 million per year ..... Get you big fat backside into the gym. You have *NOTHING*
else to do, but devote yourself to the game!!! MJ playing for the wizards
was in better shape than Shaq his last year in LA. If your playing for
superstar $$ you'd better have a superstar's desire to win. Shaq doesn't.
Kareem worked harder for less $$. Ewing worked harder for less $$.
Sebalius worked harder for less $$.

3. Did you really mean to include Kobe in that list? The one who dropped
19 lbs and hasn't been this light since 1998 because he's so *HUNGRY*
to play and WIN with team usa? Is that the one you're trying to say has
a changed body type? You could make the argument: Why didn't he
drop the 19 lbs. earlier? That's a good question. My answer is:

I don't know, but he gets a pass from me because of an 81 pt. game,
62 pts. vs. 61 pts by the spurs, averaging 40 pts for the month of
March, 6 or 7 50 pts games in a row, 2 scoring titles & 2 roster spots
on 1st team NBA offense and 1st team NBA defense. [ Don't forget
the knee surgery in the off season. ] Sorry. Forgot about MVP
at the all-star game. And the winning shot at the scrimmage. Sorry
making the last 6 or 7 pts to lead his team over LeBron's.

Be honest: He flat out wants it more and works harder to get it than
anybody else in the NBA. Shaq is a lazy buffoon in comparison.
The porky, celebrity police officer does have a nice trophy case
though ... Hey! Another nickname for Shaq: Porky Pig!

After three years, the NBA and ABC wisely concluded the novelty has worn off Shaq vs. Kobe/Heat vs. Lakers on Christmas. Instead, word is the NBA will have the Heat play in Cleveland on Christmas, creating a Dwyane Wade vs. LeBron James matchup.

http://www.miamiherald.com/588/story/181316.html

hal9000:

Though I understand what you're trying to do and how frustrating it can be at times, are you sure that a vote like that isn't going to just lead to more polarization? I think it'll just add more fuel to gunner's fuego.

KL:

"'inadequacy' is my middle name........oops, i'm thinking out loud again"

I don't like to think of myself as inadequate. "Partially able" is a term I'm much more endeared to.

how about this for a trade?

Lakers trade Bynum, Kwame, Vlad & Cook and receive KG
Charlotte trades Okafor, Jason Richardson, Raymond Felton and receives Bynum, Kwame, Vlad Rad and Damon Stoudamire
Grizzlies trade Gasol and Damon Stoudamire and receive Brian Cook, Jason Richardson and Ray Felton.
Minnesota trades KG and receives Pau Gasol and Okafor

I guess every team except Charlotte would want to do it - Kwame following MJ is a red flag but remember he only has 1 year left on his contract and Bynum is the real prize Charlotte would receive for giving up Okafor. Anyway, just having today's fun with the trade machine...

KLBeast:

"please arrange to have the Hooter girls attend the mud-wrestling contest."

I already asked them, but they said they'd rather watch you and gunner duke it out on pay-per-view... and the mud is deing generously donated by the Sacramento Manure Factory -- wait, did I say manure? Oh well, its all the same to you guys, right?

KLBeast:

"I like like Gunner, but not that much."

I don't know what you mean by "like like"... but maybe it's best if i didn't know...

KL, Gunner and other non- Kobe apologists-

I was thinking that Kobe has basically admitted her cant win by himself without another star by his radio talkshow tour and requests for better talent on the roster.

I dont disagree this team is not a legitimate contender as currently put together but I wondered if you agreed that Kobe is not the type of player to build a team around. This is not taking anything away from Kobes individual greatness or a knock on him.

I remember chick saying when Kobe was a year or two into the league, let him play and dont try to change his game. Thinking back now I think what he meant was Kobe is a scorer, dont make him into a passer or something he is not. That was his role.

Now looking at the team today, a player like Kobe, a scorer, does not seem to be the type of player to build a team around. Scorers are easy to find- go see iverson, anthony Mcgrady etc. Great teams are built around big guys with scorers around them. The bulls are one of the few exceptions in recent history and even they had Rodman and Horace Grant, not stars by any means but no slouches either.

What do you think?

KLBeast,
The truth hurts my friend!!!

Kobe Apologist,
That's the smartest analogy of how to describe the character of KLBeast. Right On Man!!!

A Wall Street Journal reporter whose name escapes me asked Stern if he’d consider raising the referees’ salaries so as to reduce their chances of getting involved in illegal money-making activities. Stern then revealed that Donaghy’s salary last season was $260,000.-NEWSDAY

generic_one:

I'm not frustrated... in fact, i'm the happiest I've ever been as a blogger. You can't make haters go away by arguing with them... you just have to accept their existence and stop trying to change their beliefs. These days, I expect -- and demand -- that every post by gunner or KL includes at least one Anti-Kobe comment. They have a reputation to uphold.

Frustration and anger is a waste of time... why not have fun with your "mortal enemies"?

At least KL and Gunner admit their opinions are that and I dont see them attaching others as haters if people dont agree with them.

Perhaps that go to the extreme to make their points and that gets under peoples skin but look at all the debate it creates

If winning a title was as important to players as some of you think, there would be a lot of all-stars going to new teams each year for the MLE. Imagine what San Antonio's roster would look like by now! And those same players would be busting their butts in the offseason trying to improve their game to help win that title. The fact is that the great majority of established players are happy with the relatively easy lifestyle and the money that they have, and aren't willing to change either for realistic shot at the title. There are some exceptions, but not many. (Kobe is an exception to the second part, we may see in a year or two if he is an exception to the first part.)

And most of us would probably act the same in our own jobs if given the opportunity. Say you had a three month vacation every year. You could spend that time relaxing, traveling, etc., or you could spend that time improving yourself so that you could perform better at your job when you go back to work after the vacation. Keep in mind that you are already one of the best in your field, and "improving yourself" most likely will not result in increased salary.

hal9000:

"These days, I expect -- and demand -- that every post by gunner or KL includes at least one Anti-Kobe comment. They have a reputation to uphold."

Yeah, but it just exacerbates the situation and antagonizes people into defensive posting. KL's been laying off the anti-Kobe stuff more and more. Gunner? Well, I don't think he's going to change, but a vote for president of the Anti-Kobe club or whatever isn't going to create less provocation.

Laker Lover

"Now looking at the team today, a player like Kobe, a scorer, does not seem to be the type of player to build a team around."

If you build that team with NBDL caliber players, a second best player that is regarded as one the most underachiever cats in the game, a third best player as Walton who can't even start in other team, and if you add to that what his hall of famer coach call them publicly: "worms without brains", you get the picture.

Its not the star, It's the cast.
At less you are Mitch or Jim Buss agent send to infiltrate this blog with more worms brain's quotes.

hal9000

"Frustration and anger is a waste of time... why not have fun with your "mortal enemies"?"

attaboy, have some fun with it. it's all opinion and BS from laker fans. why take it so seriously. it's not a matter of national security what kobe does or what kobe doesn't do.

exhelodrvr - thats a good point about the money, these players make so much money winning is almost secondary to some. There are still players who play to win, but they aint playing for pennies trying to support their family.

A guy like Kwame wants to win but he is not going to do everything it takes to win. That killer desire is not something you can teach to Kwame or Bynum or any other player.

Jorema- I agree that there are no stars on this roster to build a team around other than Kobe but my point was in recent history what championship team was built around a scorer and not a big man, other than the Bulls?

Laker Lover,
"I remember chick saying when Kobe was a year or two into the league, let him play and dont try to change his game. Thinking back now I think what he meant was Kobe is a scorer, dont make him into a passer or something he is not. That was his role."

I would have to agree with Chick statement. He is a scorer and could be consider at best, a role player slash #2 spot you need in building a championship. But, Leader of the team? He is not.

Kobe or as his true name, Kobiatch, is just like Raja Bell, Amare Stoudamire, or Shawn Marion is to Steve Nash. The same with Pippen was to Jordan.

Kobiatch does need another person to win a title. But that person has to be the leader of the team in order for the team to survive. The only problem is that Kobiatch doesn't understand that yet. That's his biggest weakness. And it's sad because he is 29. Hell, Lamar would probably compliment Kobiatch better if he was the Leader of the team. Just look at how the team was performing last year at the beginning of the season when old Kobiatch was on the sideline. Lamar showed that he could lead.

But, before Kobiatch will let someone lead them, he'll run them out of LA.

We thought with maturity he would understand that, but he hasn't. Lakers should have gotten Jason Kidd because Kidd would probably been the only person who could get Kobiatch to realize how much better he would be as role player instead of trying to be the mediocre "Leader aka The Man" of the Lakers. All because of how much Jason Kidd demands the ball.

that's my soft point i give out once an awhile. Nice talking to you. BACK TO CAPS!!

hobbit

"1. early 40's baby. still giving pain. still receiving pain. I will not go gently
into the night!"

man, i'm way off. by age-dar is off. my bad obe-wan.

"3. Did you really mean to include Kobe in that list?"

kobe's not quite 30 yet, but i do recall watching the good-ole days back in 2000, then kobe was in his early 20s and man, the dude was skinny (hence, my kobe's skinny a$$ joke).

"Be honest: He [kobe] flat out wants it more and works harder to get it than
anybody else in the NBA. "

no argument from me that kobe wants it, hell i want it too, but b-ball is team concept and if kobe truly "wanted it" he would not have allowed his ego to supersede winning, which would have meant not allowing shaq to be traded. you can call shaq all the names you want, but shaq has 4 rings and 3 finals MVP awards plus countless years to making it deep into the playoffs.............kobe can't even lead his team past the 1st round. why? cuz kobe's guys don't respect kobe enough to play defense and get rebounds for kobe so kobe can get all the credit. you see, good leaders share credit when things go well and deflect blame from his guys when things go bad. as you can see, kobe takes the credit and deflects blame from himself to his guys, his management and now, his owner. that's my problem with kobe. I DON'T CARE HOW HARD KOBE WORKS OUT OR HOW "HUNGRY" THE GUY IS, THE DUDE CAN'T LEAD AND ISN'T A LEADER OF THE LAKERS. HELL KOBE STILL WANTS OUT OF LA.

G1
"Gunner? Well, I don't think he's going to change"

I GUESS SINCE YOU KNOW ME SO WELL, IT'S TIME FOR ME TO LOG OFF FOR TODAY.

Violator

"After three years, the NBA and ABC wisely concluded the novelty has worn off Shaq vs. Kobe/Heat vs. Lakers on Christmas. Instead, word is the NBA will have the Heat play in Cleveland on Christmas, creating a Dwyane Wade vs. LeBron James matchup."

haha, NBA to kobe "F-U". Kobe's done. Please note, it's not the Lakers versus Cavs, it's the Heats versus Cavs.

Im curious Joerma- what players would you bring in to play with Kobe that would make the lakers a contender?

G1,

"I don't like to think of myself as inadequate. "Partially able" is a term I'm much more endeared to."

it's not the size of the boat, it's the motion of the ocean....at least, that's what i tell my girl.....

Dascila - thanks for the recognition.

Laker Lover - Kobe is so much more than a scorer. Let me remind you of Phil Jackson's comments back in 2001: "Kobe's become the floor leader of a basketball team that was kind of looking for that nature of a player, who could not only be a scorer, but also be a playmaker or consistently make big plays at critical times. So it was very important for Kobe to step into that role that he was envisioned at. I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now."

More comparison and contrast: "I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it. I never asked Michael to be a playmaker. That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that."

Now, since that time, I will admit, Kobe has become more of a scorer, but that's just a tribute to his adaptability. He is only playing in the manner in which he believes give his team the most chance for success. Unfortunately his current team is so bad, that manner is in the form of a gunner, which turns a team that has no chance to win into a team that has small chance of winning. This is the front office's fault. Give Kobe good players and he'll change his style to fit the formula for winning. I have no doubt we'll see that with Team USA. I only hope to see that with the Lakers. Too bad that would mean L.A. would have to get some better players.

Sonny,
"When what we should doing is seizing this opportunity -not only- to get to the bottom of any and all cheating, but also to carefully re-evaluate the whole officiating system and implement changes where needed, now"

The NBA will not dare let any other speculations about other referees come out if it's true. Donahey has been made the scapegoat and if there's any others, it will be kept behind closed doors.

They're going to paint this as there was one bad apple and we're showing him the door and any others who they find in the future. Simply trying to make it look like they were on top of the incident all along. But, I can bet money Donahey was not in this alone. Referees do hang out together. I'm a part-time referee. Not professional, but i know that you're not just calling games and then out on the scene all by yourself. Donahey had friends and some of those refs did hang out with him. you can bet that.

KLBeast

"it's not a matter of national security what kobe does or what kobe doesn't do"

AMEN BROTHER....
SOME PEOPLE FOLLOW KOBE TO THE POINT WHERE THEY KNOW WHAT TIME HE TOOK A CRAP THAT DAY AND CHECK BACK TO SEE WHAT TIME HE TAKES A CRAP THE NEXT DAY...AS HARDCORE AND LONG TIME LAKER FANATICS THESE ARE THINGS SOME PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW AND DESERVE TO KNOW..

Kobe Apologists- Were all of those comments from 2001 when Shaq was here?

Same question is the same I asked Joerma- what players would you bring in?

BTW I dont think this team is that "bad" as you claim but certaintly not a contender for a title and between 10th and 13th in the West.

Laker Lover,

I'll even add another point to my original post about Kobe being the #2 in order for the team to survive.

Look at Tracy McGrady. The same thing.

Rockets can not win with Tracy McGrady as the leader.

Yao Ming and Tracy are just #2 spots. They need someone to lead them both.

Hal9000,
For the vote, please assign Donaghy as a referee (i.e. a one man electoral college) and convince him to bet on neither under or over -- the odds will be much better of course -- because we all want to see the mud-wrestling match.

The match should be programmed for the same day as the Pan-American final. That way if Kobe's US team takes the gold, the new president and vice-presidnet will have plenty of serious propaganda planning to do in the campaign to deflate the euphoria of the Kobeites. And if we lose then they can use the match as a celebration to glory in their foresight.

Hal,
Before I submit my vote, I want some clarification on certain political issues.
Where do the hater candidates stand on issues like Kwame's healthcare, Jim Buss' illegal war on Phil and Kobe, gays in the NBA, the locker room environment, KG campaign finance, etc.? Can two admitted Clipper fans even qualify for candidacy? Can they be impeached for high treason?

Lakers trade Bynum, Kwame, Vlad & Cook and receive KG
Charlotte trades Okafor, Jason Richardson, Raymond Felton and receives Bynum, Kwame, Vlad Rad and Damon Stoudamire
Grizzlies trade Gasol and Damon Stoudamire and receive Brian Cook, Jason Richardson and Ray Felton.
Minnesota trades KG and receives Pau Gasol and Okafor

-------

And this is why the trade machines are a bit ridiculous. They leave out the
concept of actual value of the players, so people end up making trades
that are non-viable since they gyp one or more teams. So people come
up with the "how can I get rid of 3 players I don't like and get superstars
back" scenarios.

By the way, if the Lakers are involved in this trade, forget about KG,
take Pau Gasol and Emeka Okafor. Move Lamar to SF and you have a
starting lineup of Okafor, Gasol, Odom, Bryant, and Fish. Not too shabby.

kobe apologist

"Now, since that time, I will admit, Kobe has become more of a scorer, but that's just a tribute to his adaptability. "

how about kobe adapting enought to get us out of the 1st round? how about kobe adapting enough to know that being the best player on the court/team/league/planet/universe isn't what's important, what's important is being the best player on the court of the best team at the end of the playoffs.

Violator -

"After three years, the NBA and ABC wisely concluded the novelty has worn off Shaq vs. Kobe/Heat vs. Lakers on Christmas. Instead, word is the NBA will have the Heat play in Cleveland on Christmas, creating a Dwyane Wade vs. LeBron James matchup."

I'm happy for the Lakers, that they'll have the day off, but the ratings for that game will be terrible.

G1,

"KL's been laying off the anti-Kobe stuff more and more."

i'll note for the record that i only start with the anti-kobe crap when someone on the other extreme starts up with the "kobe's the best" crap.......cough, mitchell.

mitchell

"Can two admitted Clipper fans even qualify for candidacy? Can they be impeached for high treason?"

hey, someone's impersonating mitchell, the mitchell today actually has a personality.

Laker lover...

From Phil Jackson assessments of this team, we can learn what type of players Lakers need:

--- Smartness, heart, talent, discipline, athleticism, pride.

Maybe you can't find all those qualities blemish in one player, but that the standard.

As Kevin Durant showed last sunday, being a rookie is nothing when you're talented, smart and have heart. (Bynum apologists should measure his idol by that)

KLBeast,

"Hate does not discriminate" ... oh most definately

Allow me to joint the likes of lakertom and ask you to feel free to open the nearest window and see whether you have the ability to fly. Ok ok, I can see the cool folks on here frowning at my comments, so how about you just check whether your computer has wings.

Like most folks on this blog, I most certainly have never found any value in your comments and I am hoping that someday the feeling becomes mutual and you'll stop spamming this blog.

The problem with Lakers GM office is that they are enamored with some players that doesn't merit that consideration.

Another issue is that "The Office" , doesn't want to recognize his failures and prefer blame Phil Jackson and his staffs for the failures of this team

Now if they truly disagree with Phil assessment, they should fire him and pick another coach who see things as they see it.

Laker Lover

"...but certaintly not a contender for a title and between 10th and 13th in the West."

IF YOU ARE SAYING THE LAKERS ARE BETWEEN 10TH AND 13TH TEAM IN THE WEST THEN WOW BUDDY... YOUR A LITTLE OFF IN "MY" OPINION. I MEAN C'MON YOU MEAN ATLEAST 8TH RIGHT BECAUSE THEY MADE THE PLAYOFFS LAST YEAR? AND POSSIBLY BETTER CONSIDERING ALL THE INJURIES AND LOSING STREAKS THEY WENT ON BECAUSE OF THE INJURIES. CURRENTLY MOST TEAMS "MIGHT" HAVE IMPROVED DURING THIS OFFSEASON IF THATS WHAT YOU MEAN BUT SO HAVE THE LAKERS IF NOT BY ACQUIRING ANYBODY BUT FOR THE FACT OF JUST STAYIING HEALTHY THEY WOULD BE A DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENT OVER LAST YEAR.

Tiny Balls,

"...if Kobe's team takes the gold..."

Exactly, it will be Kobe's team, but only if it takes the gold.

With anything less than gold, Kobe fans and apologists will absolve his responsibility.

It's a win-win for Kobe, that's for sure.

He's lucky to have the L.A. mindset behind him.

Sonnybelfast

Got a question for some of the blog ...

This question only makes sense if you want kobe to stay in LA so please don't respond if you don't fall in that category.

Basically if you knew front office would be handed over to BUSS and that all indications are that he will never sorround kobe with a good team, would you want to see kobe in another jersey or would you rather he still stay and retire in LA? If your response is the latter, why?

laker lover

"Now looking at the team today, a player like Kobe, a scorer, does not seem to be the type of player to build a team around. Scorers are easy to find- go see iverson, anthony Mcgrady etc. Great teams are built around big guys with scorers around them. The bulls are one of the few exceptions in recent history and even they had Rodman and Horace Grant, not stars by any means but no slouches either."

terrific insight. my personal view is that scorers don't win championships, look at the past scoring champions like AI, T-Mac and Stackhouse (yes, stack is a 2-time scoring champ), not even close to a championship. AI actually made it to the finals, then disappeared from the face of the planet.

As for kobe, i saw a glimps of what kobe can be in the 2006 playoffs when kobe was controlling the tempo of the game by setting up guys and scoring EFFICIENTLY. Man, it was fun to watch thought 6 games, then the kobe-of-old reared its ugly head to prove a point.

To answer your question, kobe has 2 years to prove that he can lead a team to a championship, then he'll be 31 and washed up like Dominic Wilkins towards the end of Wilkins' career playing for the clips, then riding the pine for the Spurs. Hopefully the Summer of Rage was a wake-up call to kobe that he's not all that and a bag of chips. It's not like Dallas, Pheonix or Chicago was tripping over themselves for the old guy's services.

taliq

"Like most folks on this blog, I most certainly have never found any value in your comments and I am hoping that someday the feeling becomes mutual and you'll stop spamming this blog. "

ouch, i guess we're not friends anymore. I'll go search for the nearest railroad, bridge or office window......

take care.

sonny

"It's a win-win for Kobe, that's for sure."

only in the minds of kobe loyalists.

"how about kobe adapting enought to get us out of the 1st round? how about kobe adapting enough to know that being the best player on the court/team/league/planet/universe isn't what's important, what's important is being the best player on the court of the best team at the end of the playoffs.

Why you don't include Phil Jackson in your vacuous tirade?
Phil doesn't blame Kobe. Phil blame the quality of the cast around Kobe.

He even say that Luke Walton is a bench player and just can play 20 minutes of quality in a game and Walton was our third best option and when Lamar was out the second best.

Now you fault kobe for not making Luke a all star?

Jimmy Buss blame Phil, not Kobe.
Phil blame the cast, not Kobe.
80 percent of NBA columnist does too.

You blame Kobe because...well.. because that make sense with your blinded vision of reality.

AK,

look at this trade,
http://realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/

Hopeful,

It won't let me access it off the link. You need to list out the players.

Thanks

AK

dacsila

"KLBeast, The truth hurts my friend!!!"

The "truth"?

Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

I think my friend Col Nathan R. Jessep says it all.

RespectMyAuthoritah

"I'm happy for the Lakers, that they'll have the day off, but the ratings for that game will be terrible."

MAYBE YOUR RIGHT BUT THEN AGAIN, WHAT ELSE IS THERE GONNA BE TO WATCH ON CHRISTMAS.. ? I DON'T KNOW THOUGH, LIKE KL SAID.. "TAKE NOTE ITS NOT LAKERS VS. CAVS"... NOW THAT WOULD BE NICE.. I GUESS THE WORLD IS NOT READY TO SEE LEBRON GET SHOWN UP BY KOBE ON CHRISTMAS JUST YET, BESIDES MAYBE THE LAKERS REALLY JUST NEED A CHRISTMAS BREAK THIS TIME AROUND, DONT KNOW...

shouldn't we measure Bynum by the zip in his lips, putted there in the medicine Kobe... putted? there?

Again, you guys would have traded Kobe after his first season, there is absolutely no doubt about that. You would then have traded Derek Fisher, Rick Fox and Robert Horry for Joe Smith. You never would have hired Phil to coach the first time because of your insane theory that Phil doesn't want Kobe to win championships because it lessens the memory of Jordan. HUH??? The 1999-2004 Lakers would have been coached by Mike Fratello and Shaq would have left after the 2001 season. Slava Medvedenko would, of course, be our only star at this point, given the fact that he would have been playing 82 games/year, 40 minutes per game, scoring 24 points/game and giving up 42 points/game on the defensive end...

NBA in Lost Wages

http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/290617.html

Taos hum

How many seasons Lakers have to wait for Kobe to blossom and be the second best player in the team?

I invite you to think carefully when you challenge my thoughts.

Stay in your grammar-language bashing of me. because if you upgrade it....you will find your lips zipped, like happened to KL who run from the blog after we debate one on one.

jorema,

...

...

Blahahahahaaaa! Tell me, would you trade Bynum for a pack of playing cards? I'm sure you would... then... let's see, we have to buy into your theory that Phil Jackson came back for one reason alone... to PREVENT Kobe from ever winning the title again! So this all falls under Phil's plan which is trade anyone who is not at the height of their career... IMMEDIATELY! Crittenton is just starting... we better dump him right now!!! Matter of fact... we have our draft picks for next year... let's get rid of them before it's too late! We can't have these young players infesting our roster! We want to win NOW! Just next year, the hell with the year after, we want to cram the roster full of 30+ year olds and be in salary cap hell for the next 20 years so we can go after the title THIS YEAR! and this year only...

Jorema, tell us all how the salary cap works. This should be a good one...

KLBeast:

"haha, NBA to kobe "F-U". Kobe's done. Please note, it's not the Lakers versus Cavs, it's the Heats versus Cavs."

Thats right, KL -- another F-U to Kobe... thats the spirit! I knew you had it in you. You should really trademark that phrase like Pat Riley did with "three-peat".

Anyone who thinks that this ref was a lone "rogue" is just simply fooling themselves. Several refs have been quoted anonymously that they are worried TIm will take them down with him.

If he was alone and none of the others are at fault then why are they worried? What are they worried about? WHat are they hiding? And what about the allegations of cronyism among NBA employees?

People have been screaming about the officials for years, myself included and now there is hard physical proof they are corrupt. And I sincerely doubt that he was alone, or the only one who has problems

Plus if you read Stern's transcript he never ONCE apologized to anyone (he should be kissing us fans butts for this), he just started talking fast and kept talking and "tried" to appear humble. But his false humility only exemplifies his arrogance that as Sonnybelfast put it we will accept his half assed reasoning and continue to bury our heads in the sand.

I am waiting to see what comes of this, what Stern will do to mollify us, like fire Stu Jackson, Ronny Nunn, finally add instant replay, make each ref accountable.

But i doubt he will and whatever he does I guarantee you it wont be enough. Not enough to satisfy me at any rate and when that day comes i will no longer be an NBA fan, I am already on the fence, I am just waiting for the final lame excuse to be revealed so I can move on with my life and not waste any more time on a league that has as much integrity as Don King.

A salary cap FAQ? Man, I think you need an accountant to decipher that! LOL. I prefer the layman Lakertom, Edwin Gueco explanations.

Now to get Yi here for just Sasha lol.

generic_one:

"but a vote for president of the Anti-Kobe club or whatever isn't going to create less provocation."

Who said anything about less provocation? I'm talking about more fun! Some of the responses to my ballot have already made me laugh so hard I almost cried.

Joerma- instead of criticizing KL give us a list of players names who you think should come and play on the lakers. Druant was a lottery pick, and how he fares in the nba remains to be seen.

gunner and kl thanks for responding i wonder what is going to take to get Joremas nose out of Kobes rearend?

Taliq, honestly, why should we care? I think the more important thing would be why can't we get a good team, period? If we suck, does it matter who's playing here?

I'd rather we don't suck.

Phil Jackson convinced Kobe that fighting with this team is fruitless.
Phil doesn't hide his antagonism to the mediocrity that characterized most of his players. He said it to the press.

Phil Jackson destroyed this team confidence in the end of the season, trashing them publicly..

Guess what, Kobe is repeating what Phil started.
What statements are more devastating...

This team have some worms brains players
or this team need a upgrade to compete?

Who is more guilty Phil or Kobe?

Another question...

Lebron think the same like Kobe: Jason Kidd is a mvp caliber player.
Is Kobe wrong for wanting a trade for that caliber MVP player in exchange for another one who isn't even the best third option in his team?

I know the smart answer

Do you know it?

Taliq,
That's a tough question to answer. I want to see Kobe win some more rings, but if he were traded, Phil would leave as well. If Jerry Buss gives full authority to Jim Buss in the next few years, the the once-proud Laker organization will have lost the following all-time greats, Jerry Buss, Chick, Jerry West, Shaq, Kobe, and Phil, all in this decade. The once-great Laker franchise will never be the same, and will have a real diffiult road to recovery. On the other hand, Kobe is the only person in the organization (aside form Phil?) that is willing and able to stand up to the FO to force change. He is currently our only hope to save this franchise on and OFF the court. Kobe has to stay. If the new FO proves to be inept once again, there is no doubt in my mind that Kobe will come to the rescue once again, similiar to his attempts this summer.

You know.. I'm still a little stumped about why jorema lashed out at me earlier, so I decided to run some of his posts through Babelfish to see if I could translate and then retranslate them.

Here are some of the interesting ones:

English > German > French > English

"If you think, you those are emeritus Prophet with the mission, each one in their peccadilloes konferieren and small disturbances, do not take particularly your employment too seriously, if in this simple process him zealousness like Stupidity to come here to greet with you, of Maestro!"

English > Italian > French > Portuguese > English

"There millions of hands that applaudiscono posterior historical citation. We can feel "the brave ones", "" the vacant ole, the people who chanting your scalfittura as symbol that he is correcto, rusée and entirely good in any way. But... hell... none... that is one blog. Soon that one blog. A place to keep and to be kept about all the things in that it says respect to the Lakers and the basketball. If proven to find a writing of Twain of mark here, as Kobe... will be depressed and communication nonsense."

English > Dutch > French > Greek > English

"If you this team with caliber the players builds NBDL, a second better player that as a majority underachiever gatw'n in the game, a third better player is in considered as the ton of bastion that cannot begin in deed in other team, and if you that it adds that is the room famerbus ayto'es it invokes states: 'to without the brain, you it acquires the picture.'"

English > Russian > Japanese > English

"Why isn't filling Jackson included in the impeachment address of your emptiness? Filling does not fill up Kobe. Quality of the thing which is thrown around Porichaniye filling Kobe. As for him, and Walton our 3rd is the best edition when, and Lamar being from step of the next virtue, and exactly that can doing 20 minutes of quality of the game the player of standpoint there was ルーク Walton, when you say. Now it makes for mistake Kobe because the entire star is not done in ルーク? The lever of Porichaniye filling Buss, Kobe which is not. Casting Porichaniye filling, Kobe which is not. It makes 80 percent of critic NBA. Feeling vision which being... being to be good, designates Kobe as that making actual your blind person it appealed."

"On the other hand, Kobe is the only person in the organization (aside form Phil?) that is willing and able to stand up to the FO to force change. He is currently our only hope to save this franchise on and OFF the court. "

i just swallowed my puke.

KOBE IS THE REASON WE SUCK WHEN KOBE CHASED SHAQ AWAY IN 2004.

You have it backwards, i wish FO would have stood up to kobe in 2004 or had the nuts to trade kobe in 2002, then we'd still be competing for championship.

Mitchell=Kobe's Sports Agent.

G1 -

L O frickin L !!!!!!!!!!!!

RMA

G1:

I too have long wondered, "Why isn't filling Jackson included in the impeachment address of your emptiness?"

That's just a damn good question.

generic_one

i'm one to laugh at someones speach impediments growing up minority, but that shizzle was funny has hell.

Ohhhh, brutal! Now you are saying we should have done the Jason Kidd deal? LOL!

Do you really think we would have gotten out of the 1st round if we did that trade? What are you smoking? Who would be our Center now? Jason Collins? What would be our salary cap situation? Do you even understand the question?

Do you really have such a lack of basic understanding that you think Phil doesn't use the press to motivate his players?

Are you typing this up in Russian or Tagalog and putting it into an English converter? Some, excuse me, MOST of the stuff you post is... OUT THERE, at first I thought you were just joking around but after seeing that you post it at all hours of the day, day after day, it makes me wonder if you actually believe the stuff you post? LOL! Nah...

"Mamba24fan4life,

Lets not go the way of the haters and try and pin this on something being wrong in miami. Milwaukee offered 6 years at 52mil compared with 5 years at 31mil that miaimi was offering.

Seems like he had over 20 million good reasons to pick milwaukee :)"

Talik,
sorry i got back at you this late, i stepped out of my office for a few hours... But that was exactly my point, common sense is not the strength of our haters, although i lov'em but their nonsense rise my blood pressure every time i give their post a chance of reading it, but now i gave up at once.
And for my vote, i vote GUNNER. There's no way KL hate Kobe more than him, KL sometimes, very little few time, tried to be civil and said one or two logical things, but GUNNER! this dude is a high blood pressure pusher.

Later!!!

Mamba from the eastcoast

G1,

"i'm one to laugh at someones speach impediments growing up minority, but that shizzle was funny has hell."

i meant "i'm NOT one to laugh..."

Hate. Love. Critique. Praise. Stay. Go. Enlight. Stupify. Attack. Defend. Write. Wrong. It's a never ending debate for us Laker fans (and those haters) to decide what's best for the most intriguing franchise outside of the Spankees. However, as great an outlet as this is, it sure does bog down with all the back and forth about each other instead of about the Lakers. I just scrolled through a hundred posts and it read like an elementary school "I know you are but what am I" debate. Ho hum, thanks but no thanks AK, I'll check in when there's action on the Laker front. I do appreciate the real logic and insight (Laker-related) from some posters, but having to shovel through all the "agree to disagree so let me just spew more diarrhea" is exasperating, even (or especially) when they claim it's in jest and for the sake of dialogue. Whatever...

Generic-one thats fine...I can take a joke..

But if I do the same with your long and pointless posts about zombies, travelogues, quotes and medieval references to try to pass yourself as a bright dude (instead of admitting "the google search engine" as the real genius)...

YOU WILL CRY FOUL.

By the way, if you choose to talk more about basketball and less about your silly themes, (with the ego-driven intention of show off yourself) ...
This blog will be a better place to visit.

i guess.

Taliq,

You asked: Basically if you knew front office would be handed over to BUSS and that all indications are that he will never sorround kobe with a good team, would you want to see kobe in another jersey or would you rather he still stay and retire in LA? If your response is the latter, why?

I'd prefer that he leave. In a truly twised vision, I'd prefer Kobe to play
out his contract and walk away from the Lakers go play with KG or
J-Kidd for the vet minimum and win 4 championships in a row. Then
*everyone* would know that it wasn't about $$ and the FO is comprised
of numbskulls who can't pick basketball players from a who's who list
of HOFers.

That being said: I think that D-Fish raises us to the 5th seed. If Mihm plays
defense or Bynum learns how to play defense we can be good. [ That's
a big if ... ]

Laker Lover -

The brunt of the damage was done when Shaq was traded for Odom, Butler, and Grant. I didn't believe it then, and I still can't believe that was the best they offer they could get for Shaq. Even if Kobe "forced" the trade as the casual fan thinks, I don't think that influenced the trade so much that the Lakers had to trade Shaq for pennies on the dollar. I know you will never get the better of the deal when trading a Hall-of-Famer, but that was ridiculous. So now the team is getting maybe 10 cents for a dollar, when it probably could have gotten 75 cents, at worst 50 cents, which means getting a bona fide consistent all-star. That doesn't seem too unreasonable for a Hall of Famer. If Kobe ever felt that he didn't want to play with Shaq, it's not as if he expected to play with NO ONE. Which it must seem like to him, considering what they got back for Shaq. The casual fan says that Kobe wanted to win by himself. WRONG. He just wanted to win without Shaq. That's not the same thing. And it could have been done, if the Lakers had gotten anything close to 75 cents on the dollar for the Big Lazy-I-won't-Improve-My-Game-I-can't-share-the-spoltlight-and-say-it's-OUR-team-Snaq.

Then to compound one horrible trade with another, they send off Caron Butler for Kwame Brown. You don't think having Caron would have helped when Phil Jackson came in? Wouldn't his points have helped us win a few more games? Just a horrible trade, and I felt that way that summer, too.

That leaves us where we are now. The draft picks have been OK. But the Lakers need to move heaven and earth to get Kevin Garnett. The front office has to pull one on the Wolves like the Heat pulled on the Lakers themselves. We've got to get KG for 50 cents on the dollar. I'm not sure that will be so easy to do, but McHale's made bad moves before.

So this is where the state of the Lakers is at, where the front office has to rely on other team's mistakes to benefit.

And you wonder why Kobe is upset.

CURRENT STATE OF THE LEAGUE:

WAS THERE REALLY EVER A DOUBT IN ANYBODYS MIND THAT AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER OVER ONE GAME OR ANOTHER OR ONE INSTANCE OR MOMENT OVER ANOTHER DURING ALL THESE YEARS THAT A GAME OR A PLAY WAS INFLUENCED OR "FIXED" ONE WAY OR ANOTHER? DAVID STERN, THIS IS LIFE, WE ALL ARE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO KNOW THESE THINGS HAPPEN, SO DON'T ACT LIKE A DUMBS**T AND PRETEND YOU ARE JUST ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED, BECAUSE THE AVERAGE NBA FAN IS REALLY NOT. YET I AM GLAD TO KNOW NOW THAT THERE WONT BE ANY WHAT IFS IN THE FUTURE OR HEAR PEOPLE SAY THAT "DOESN'T HAPPEN"..IT IS VERY STRANGE WHY IT REALLY DOESN'T AFFECT ME TOO DEEPLY ABOUT MY FEELINGS ABOUT THE LEAGUE OR MY BELOVED LAKERS OR MAKE SUCH AN IMPACT AS THE MEDIA IS DESPERATELY TRYING TO MAKE IT TO BE.. HARD TO EXPLAIN.. BUT WE THE “TRUE FANS” KNEW ALL ALONG, AND THATS WHY WE ARE ACUSTOMED AND THATS WHY WE JUDGE AND EVALUATE OUR TEAMS BASED ON THIS CIRCUMSTANCES AND EXPECT AND EXCEPT THE VARIABLES THAT MIGHT OCCUR DURING A GAME IT IS ENTERTAINMENT FOR US BY THE WAY, OBVIOUSLY NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO CALL "PART OF THE GAME" BUT DEEP DOWN IN OUR MINDS, IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A POSSIBILITY OF “ROGUE” REF, BUT TO STOP THERE WOULD BE IGNORANT.. REFS, PLAYERS, AN ORGANIZATION AS A WHOLE, ETC, ETC, ETC.. THAT IS NOT TO SAY IT HAPPENS OFTEN, BUT OBVIOUSLY IT JUST DID, NOW GET OVER IT!!!

G1, my question is, who is Porichaniye, and why is he filling Kobe? Do we want to know? And why does Jorema know this?

That was awesome. Props.

Brandon C, it actually could be just the one guy. The question is, how is the league going to convince people that nobody else is involved?

I'd love to see Stern apologize for this. I'm not saying it's his fault that Donaghy gambled and got dragged into this. I'm saying it's his fault that people have been complaining for years that there was a problem with the refs, and he would just mock them in return. Seeing the arrogance taken from him is the only thing I've enjoyed about this.

Does anyone know when Laker tickets go on sale?

Quoting Lautramont (or whatever is written)won't make you original or bright.

Making fun of a English second language writer is fun the first time , second time is a lack in the inventive part.

Of course when you joint the company of KLBEAST and Lakerlover and you form barricade with them, is clear you had bought a ticket "one way/without return" to oblivion-land

jorema

"This team have some worms brains players
or this team need a upgrade to compete?"

very good point, i like... but he is the coach after all, and two wrongs don't make a right?

Jorema,

There's no need to be the Djamoloudine Abdujaporov of basketball. There's more to being a Lakers fan than suffering as we have been for the past few weeks here.

Notice how you never see Generic One and Jorema in the same place?

They are obviously one in the same. How else could Generic One so fluently recreate those hypnotically poetic ravings?

The only remaining question is, how many other bloggers are he?

Andrew Z,

I agree with you wholeheartedly about the extra millions being the end all and be all in the players' mind...in this case Mo. I know it would be for me. Don't know exactly how one would spend it in the 'burgs but I guess that's what the summer is for lol. But I find it curious that he felt the need to expound on Miami's flaws (if it's true). He could have just used the age old cliché "this is where I wanted to go all along, it wasn't the money" and leave it at that.

kobe apologist

"Even if Kobe "forced" the trade as the casual fan thinks, I don't think that influenced the trade so much that the Lakers had to trade Shaq for pennies on the dollar."

my question to you is why not sign kobe and dishonor shaq's request for a trade?

i'll tell you why? there was a quid pro quo that kobe wouldn't sign unless shaq was out. why do you think the trade was done so hastily and kobe signed the day after shaq's trade? coincidence?

don't you think we could have been better off dishonoring shaq's trade request, then waiting for a better deal, or make shaq play out his contract or buyout shaq's remaining contract? this way, we could have rebuilt that much faster rather than taking on a bunch of jokers with big fat contracts.

Michael A,
"how is the league going to convince people that nobody else is involved?"

You won't be able to convince everybody. The people who thought that their team was being cheated because the league had someone win (illogical as that is; the #1 and #2 picks in the lottery would surely have gone elsewhere this season if the league wanted certain teams to prevail) are now going to think that their team is being cheated by someone involved in gambling.
Most people will believe the results of the investigation, and if additional steps are taken to prevent/detect future occurrences, will be c