Revenge of Von, and a Q.O.T.D.

BK

Fisher Was The Best Choice Behind Mo Williams Of Course.

You guys think that this will lower Ron Ron's trade value?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AhV9sIgdi3Tf20geu.wXPmu8vLYF?slug=txnbasuspensions&prov=st&type=lgns

My guess is that it will. But after all he's been through, do we really want to go there?

Also You Forgot That Mo Willians Stayed With The Bucks.

A little more info on Artest:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2936623

Yeah, just who we need...

NBA suspends Artest and Stephen Jackson

NBA suspends Artest and Stephen Jackson
July 14, 2007
NEW YORK (TICKER) -- The NBA on Saturday suspended Ron Artest of the Sacramento Kings and Stephen Jackson of the Golden State Warriors seven games apiece for conduct off the court.

A couple thoughts:

1. Artest just got suspended 7 games by the league. Do you guys think that could be a plus as far as us getting him in a trade? I do, because I think it will hurt is value to other teams a little (maybe very little). Maybe they would be more willing to do a Kwame, and Farmar for Artest trade.

2. Alexander Johnson. I don't know much about the guy, but at 6'9" I think he can give us some much need depth in the front court. He should come really cheap, but like I said I know little to nothing about him, so any info you guys have would be appreciated.

3. Blake. What happened to the full MLE? I didn't think he was worth that much, but I thought HE did. I think he probably could have gotten more money, but is probably comfortable in Portland (lives there in the offseason), and already knows the system.

mo williams just signed a $52M 6 year deal with Milwaukee.

J Cool-

I didn't forget him. Just didn't put him in there, b/c the Lakers had no realistic shot at getting him.

BK

I'd rather have Fisher than Blake or Jason Hart.

Blake isnt a better defender than Fish in my opinion. They both are OK.

Plus, Fisher is a better shooter than Blake and is strong with the triangle.

He is a more important acquisition than all of those guys.

All we need is for Jarvis or Jordan to emerge as the future of our PG this year and then we are straight when we trade the odd man out!

A few weeks back I was in favor of signing Blake as well. Then Fish came available and it all changed. I think it's a no-brainer to be honest. Fish wasn't terribly expensive and he snaps right back into a system he knows inside and out. Jackson trusts him and Kobe trusts him. I realize he has certain limitations, but then again, so did Harper when he came on board (bad legs and all). I'm not trying to compare their style of play, but other factors that we really need right now - leadership, stability, dedication, etc..

Dave M

BK:

What was the "Q.O.T.D." (Quote Of The Day, I'm assuming)? Did I just completely miss it? I might have. I'm a bit wired because I just had a quadruple latte. They use huge shots at the local shop.

Edwin:

"I guess posters are really wackos from G-1, Mamba24"

That's Mr. Wacko Generic "Zombie Fighter Extraordinaire" One to you, bub. Actually... nevermind. That's way too long.

John K:

You rock too, dude. I'm talkin like the same way Tenacious D rocks. That's some massive rockin.

Oh well, we ( Lakers ) did what we had to do, with what we had to do with, only time will tell if Fisher
is going to be a big disappointment, but i hope it works out for the best. GO LAKESHOW!!!

QUESTION Of The Day.. not Quote Of The Day. See? Way too much caffeine.

Looks like Jarret Jack is gonna be available. Maybe we should think about going after him? I know we have a glut at guard right now, but if this happened we would have a strong veteran core, and good young players:

Boston gets:
LO

MInny gets:
Bynum
Gerald Green
Kwame
Ratliff
Farmar

We get:
Garnett
Blount

Minny should LOVE this deal because they get 20million dollars worth of cap space, and 3 talented young players to jump start their rebuilding process. Boston gets a versatile, and unselfish all-star caliber forward that will fit well with Ray Allen, and Pierce. You add LO to Pierce, Allen, and Jefferson, and Boston would make some SERIOUS noise in the East.

Then we see if we can get Jack for a 2nd round pick, and cash (or Sasha's expiring contract). Every team knows that Jack is for sale, so Portland is not gonna get much for him.

Our lineup would look like this:

Fisher-Jack-Crittenton
Kobe-Evans-Sasha(unless he's moved in the Jack trade)
Luke-Radmanovic
Garnett-Turiaf-Cook(I would love to see him moved)
Blount-Mihm

D-League: Coby Karl

What do y'all think?

Aloha A K

You are right when you say that neither D Fish or Blake would lead us to the finals. But D Fish is the kind of player you need on your team to get to the finals. That is why the Spurs are successful, they have several gritty vets, we could use another D Fish type on the Lakers.

MH

I know that Fisher is a better defender than Blake. Given that D-Fish creates offensive fouls by being in good defensive positions, and since the NBA rules do not really even allow for one on one defense any more, the ability to cause turnovers from the other team is quite valuable. I really do like our athleticism in the back court now, especially with Crittenton.

The one problem I do foresee is that Fisher is a small guard listed around 6' 2", which they also list Farmar at as well. Jackson has an extreme affinity for larger guards, which is maybe why Crittenton might fit in a little better. I have been impressed with Crittenton's ball handing ability and decision making in the summer league.

I think L-O is greatly under valued. I really do believe he was the best Laker in the series against the Suns. Given his age, i still believe he can hit the high ceiling that his talent has promised since leaving U of Rhode Island early.

The sky hook is a devastating shoot, and if Bynum at the age of 20 can start to use it in his arsenal, he has a very bright future.

One of my biggest beefs from last year’s offense, was that even when our big men posted hard, the ball would rarely find them in that position. Even Kwame should the ability to seal and find high opportunity attempts (to sometime miss layups). But all and all it is a big man's sport, and the more high percentage opportunities’ a team can get the more likely they are to win a basketball game, IE points in the paint. Even Kobe should take the opportunity to post on the low block more, instead of the pinch post. All that being said, can we really improve our team through trades??

I really believe we have to get more talented for cheap. Meaning that we have to take a chance on injury-prone players and trouble makers...

We have to try and get Artest without given up, Kwame or Walton.

I do not really think that getting rid of Bynum and Odom is the answer; we must add pieces around the core of the team.

We may not be a championship team to start the season, but maybe if we are patient we can get someone cheaper at the trade-deadline. Not to say that Kupchack has done a good job, but i am not sure the other options are plausible to get this team over the top, to the world championship which in case i am mistaken is the point.

Weave:

Out of curiosity, what makes you think Jack will be available? Because of the Blake signing? Personally, I think that Jack is going to be around. Right now they've got Dixon, Roy, Rodriguez and Jack holding it down at the guards (all of them put time in at the PG or SG positions) and Webster (who really is more of an SF), but the combination of Jack at PG and Roy at SG are their most efficient in the lineup. I think that Blake will probably be brought in just as another backup. His contract runs out right at the time that they'll have to revisit other contracts and considering that he's now one of the oldest on the team, he's probably just there for the short term.

Artest suspended for 7 games to begin next season. The King really might be willing to let him go to the Lakers.

mike

Yes they went with their hearts. Blake would've been a far better signing. Fisher is old, can't guard the pick and roll, and no, he is not a better shooter. Look at Fisher's shooting percentages - are you kidding me? Too often Fisher forces himself on offense when that is not what the team needs from him. Blake, on the other hand, was very consistent for the Nuggets last year (I currently live in Denver and watched him a lot last year) and knew his role on the team - feed AI and Carmelo and only take the open shot.

The only reason I would support this move is if Kobe was pushing for it and it helps to keep him in L.A. where he belongs.

My 2 cents...

G-1,

Because right now Portland has 7 guards, and that's not counting guys like Martell Webster that can play 2 positions. Even if they let the 2 guards they just drafted stay over seas, that still leaves them with 5 guards. I could be wrong but I don't see them keeping Jack when they just re-signed Blake, and want Rodriguez to get minutes so he can develop.

Fisher was by far the best choice for the money. He's mature and level-headed and has good playoffs experience.

He also has the one thing that puts him an entire season ahead of all the other potential PGs for the Lakers, years of triangle offense experience.

Where the other guys would spend the first year just learning the offense, Fisher can spend it teaching the fine points of it to the non-Kobe guards.

Also, don't forget that Fisher just recently was a key part in turning the Jazz into a potential contender.

G-1,

As far as Blake's age/contract length goes, I read an article on hoopshype that said that Portland isn't trying to sign anybody for longer than 2 years because they want to build up cap space for when Chris Paul becomes a FA 2009.

If they can build up the cap space they probably have a good shot at Paul. There's not too many teams in the league that have a better young core than Portland (None as far as i'm concerned). You add Paul to that mix and they will be very very dangerous (even though they're gonna very dangerous without him), probably favorites to win the title in 4-5 years.

Aloha Nik

I agree with most of what you said. Lamar has been under valued, unfortunetly he has been injury prone the last few years. If he can stay healthy a whole season I believe he would be close to a 20ppg 10 boards and 5 assists guy. And personally I think we would be a better team with Kobe, Lamar and Artest, then we would be with Kobe and KG after considering what you give up to get KG. The only thing I would argue is, Kwame. I would give him up for Artest in a heartbeat. Artest is the most talented guy we could get that cheaply. I would then resign Mihm. We still wouldnt be a championship team but we would now truely be one guy away and just maybe one of the young guys a year from now, would grow into that one more guy role.

Did we ever get more info on the supposed Odom for Marion deal? I still wonder about that. Why would the Suns do that deal?

Odom has two years left at 13.5 and 14.5 million while Marion has 2 left also at 16.5 and 17million. Marion's second year is a player option which I doubt he would opt out of with many teams only having the midlevel to offer free agents.

So why would the suns do this? Would it be the second player the Lakers would have to throw in to make the deal work? Do they want Luke or Farmar or Cook that bad?

or is it that Kerr thinks Odom would be a better fit with the Suns? I doubt it. Yes, Odom out played Marion (in my opinion) the last two playoff series, but Marion is the Suns best defender.

Is it chemestry? Is there really a problem there?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Wes

Blake would have been a better choice, especially with just a two year contract.

KLbeast..

Looks like players know now Shaq trick....and they don't want to play for the big "All the money for me and get the other for cheap"

"Give me all the money I can get, and look for some fools to play here for the cheap with the championship selling points".

No Lewis,
no Derek Fisher,
no Mo Williams,
no Kapono,
no Chucky Atkins,
no Grant Hill,
no Steve Blake,
no Mike Bibby.

Nobody want to play with a old Shaq who just play hard the last 2 months of the season and blame others if the team underachieve, and for Wade, a injury waiting to happen.

two words.
tri angle.

Why people keep saying Fisher isn't a good defensive player?

Fisher shot down Baron Davis the last 3 games of the playoffs, and he did it in a way that Baron was frustrated and tried to retaliate again Fisher.

Fisher won't give up playing again Nash, and he will find a way to slow him down a little beat and make him play honest defense.

Also, in a clutch situation Fisher can attract some ATTENTION and Kobe will have more freedom.

Fisher will stabilized this team and will be a coach in the court.

Fisher knows the triangle, so not learning curve for him.

Under Fisher tutelage, look what happen with Utah Guards improvement and also Golden State's Monta Ellis.

We're talking about a hero from Utah who went all the way to the Western Conference.

We're talking about a 3 championship winner
Blake was a non factor against San Antonio.
Fisher is a playoff guy whoi will make Nash earn any assist or point.'

Don't ever understimate the heart of a champion!

If the Lakers acquired Blake they would inevitably run into a situation where no one had any idea of who should be playing at any given time between Blake, Farmar, and Crittenton. This would happen once Farmar and Crittenton showed enough development to challenge Blake.

Fisher's role will be much more differentiated from Farmar/Crittenton than Blake's role would have been. You want Fisher in there when the pressure is heavy, when morale seems low, when players start forgetting what exactly they are supposed to do. You put Farmar/Crittenton in there when you need energy and athleticism and speed.

So yes, Fisher brings more options to the Lakers table than Blake would have...

Hey Guys,

Check this out! I cut and pasted this from blog.wahington post

"I'd be happy with Mickey Mouse as GM right now," Boyce said. "I really would. I'm not just saying that because of L.A. and Disneyland; I'd be happier with an animated character running the Lakers than Mitch Kupchak. I'd be happier with George Bush than Mitch Kupchak--there's your Washington connection. I'd have more faith in this girl walking right here running the Lakers than Mitch Kupchak, and I don't even know her name."

The girl, though, was walking fairly fast, and so I never got to ask her what she'd do if she replaced Mitch Kupchak

Full sotry here: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2007/07/the_lakers_new_gm.html

maybe having a battle tested fish in the playoffs beats having a quitter named smush. i agree with the post here saying that we arent a championship team, but who really is? aside from san antonio nobody really sticks out as a favorite. that is the story of the west though isnt it? favorable playoff seeding and you just might make it to the western conf. finals. instead of speculating on which would be the best talent to pick up out there (or should have picked up) maybe working on pieces that would improve team chemistry would be whats best for this team after all. it is a team sport. i suppose if all the players on the team actually stood by each other (i.e. defense) they actually might just be good enough to beat the so called contenders.

I'd rather have Derek Fisher than Steve Blake. BK makes some good points, but Derek has intangibles in terms of mental toughness, experience (mentoring ability), and Kobe's ear.

Fish is a True Laker and he's what we need. Farmar and Critterion with both benefit tremendously from playing with him. It's good.

GO LAKERS!

BK

I think the point guard chatter is CLOSED. Derek Fisher is better than any guard we had a chance to get and this includes STEVE BLAKE, JASON HART, and the rest of the NBA point guards after Mo Williams and Chauncey.

As for Theo Papouloukas, now that guy would have been a better signing than Fisher if available.

Fisher shoots better. Is more clutch and does it when it counts. He is a WARRIOR and I know Steve Blake plays hard but he doesn't know grinding like Derek Fisher and I think all Laker fans can second that.
On top of that looking at the big picture, the Lakers need a MAN/WARRIOR like Derek Fisher more than they need a guy that scraps around and is a servicable point guard like Steve Blake. We really need that veteran LEADERSHIP.

Also Steve Blake was not coming to L.A. unless he could crack open the safe at El Segundo because of the cost of living and taxes. He really should not have been SOOOOOO greedy!!!!
Athletes like Steve Blake are the reason you wonder if guys want to win or not.

HEY I GOT A CURIOUS QUESTION???

WHY ISN'T BYNUM PLAYING ON THE SUMMER LEAGUE TEAM???

JORDAN FARMAR'S THERE?

COULD "SOCKS" NOT BENEFIT FROM IT???

JUST THROWING THAT OUT THERE...

Let's not go to sleep now,
let's FORMALLY INQUIRE WITH PJ BROWN about his services and interest in coming to Los Angeles.
Since the servicable big men have all been placed (Joe Smith, MaGloire, Mikki Moore), PJ is as good as any of them and if he has an interest in playing near the beach perhaps L.A. can get him?????

Lastly at some point during this off season and even if at the end of August, the Jermaine O'Neal for Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum and Sasha Vujacic deal needs to be swung.

JO is even more valuable now with Derek Fisher on board and JO has a better defensive anchor type of game than Odom and Bynum.
Plus if we ever need a bucket down low late in the game, I'd say JO has a better chance of holding his base and position and delivering that bucket than ODOM or SOCKS BYNUM.

Now if we can get Indiana to take Kwame Brown and leave Odom great but that would require Indiana to accept Vlad Rad to make the contracts work and I think Larry Bird has had enough of Austin Croshere, Mike Dunleavey and Troy Murphy like contracts and production.

So it looks like
Odom, Bynum, and Vujacic for Jermaine O'Neal.
I'd swap in Farmar if it gets the deal done but not Javaris Crittenton because he's better than JORDAN FARMAR today and tomorrow!!!

-On Ron Artest-

The only surprise about the suspension is that it is only 7 days. It's not news and changes nothing. Petrie, silent about most thiings, recently indicated that he expects Testes to be a King well into the foreseeable future. Can't say the same thing about Bibby. The glass being half full, I view the suspension as a plus. We have a bunch of young guys; Martin, Price, Douby, Garcia, Williams, and Hawes who in large part will carry the torch for 7 games. Win or lose, if they are playing well and improving, the onus will be on Ron to fit in. If not, Ron will help to pick em' up. Win-Win situation, in theory.

Nothing the Lakers have to offer, short of maybe Bynum, Odom and a draft pick would fetch Testes, and even then, probably not, because you are the Lakers. At any event, Artest won't be gifted to anybody, you can count on that. At both ends of the floor, he's one of the best players in the league, and many Sacto fans (not all) love watching him play. He too sells tickets.

Weave:

"Because right now Portland has 7 guards, and that's not counting guys like Martell Webster that can play 2 positions. Even if they let the 2 guards they just drafted stay over seas, that still leaves them with 5 guards. I could be wrong but I don't see them keeping Jack when they just re-signed Blake, and want Rodriguez to get minutes so he can develop."

As far as I see it, Roy, Jack, Dixon, Rodriguez, Blake are going to be the guards for the Blazers. The other two guards that they picked probably won't see much time in the NBA. Ayers will probably be sent to the D-League though, so that'll take up one extra spot on their roster. With the youth they have, I don't know why they'd go with Blake for the long haul when they already have the other guys. It just seems to me that Blake is a temporary solution to their lack of depth at the 1-2 spots. Webster and James are probably going to be the guys at the 3 since Outlaw is on his way... well, out.

"As far as Blake's age/contract length goes, I read an article on hoopshype that said that Portland isn't trying to sign anybody for longer than 2 years because they want to build up cap space for when Chris Paul becomes a FA 2009.

If they can build up the cap space they probably have a good shot at Paul. There's not too many teams in the league that have a better young core than Portland (None as far as i'm concerned). You add Paul to that mix and they will be very very dangerous (even though they're gonna very dangerous without him), probably favorites to win the title in 4-5 years."

Well, I think that they'll probably wait to see where Paul goes before they kick anyone to the curb. They could hang onto everyone and still have room for Paul because as far as the cap space is concerned, if they don't match qualifying offers for Webster, Frye, and Jack they'll still be at $33.9 million, which will be at about $25 million + (if the cap is only around $59 million by then) below the salary cap. I'm assuming that they're going to trade Darius Miles sometime next season or the season after for an expiring contract, so that'll be an additional $9 million off. So, they'd still have plenty of room to re-sign Jack (who is clearly better than Blake), Webster, and James as well as signing any rookies they get and they'd STILL have room to sign Paul to a max contract of around $12 million.

So, I don't think they'll get rid of Jack before then. Before they're assured that Paul isn't going to sign somewhere else.

ex:

"Blake would have been a better choice, especially with just a two year contract."

I'd have to disagree there. Fisher is much better for us as far as a short term contract is concerned. He'll have a much larger impact on our players in that time as opposed to Blake. We're bringing him in because he's a veteran, not because he's an absolutely better player than Blake. And I think that Blake's a bit overrated on defense as well as shooting is concerned. Blake hasn't proven jack in the NBA yet and I think that people are only seeing the effect of him playing behind two guys like AI and Melo.

G1 - He rocks like Tenacious D rocks???

Man, I hope that he realizes what a compliment that is. That's akin to saying, "you've got bad-a$$ hair like Ben Wallace has bad-a$$ hair," or, "you make random, hate-filled posts like Mike T makes random, hate-filled posts."

Get the scientists working on the tube technology.

Hollywood Jack,

On the very large whole, guys past their second year in the league don't play in the Summer League. There are exceptions now and then, but generally speaking, that's the case. And for someone like Bynum, who just finished playing 82 games as a 20 mpg rotation guy and going against elite NBA bigs, I think Summer League would be a waste of his time. The competition simply isn't good enough.

He's been working out a lot in El Segundo and Atlanta (and from what I've read and people I've talked to, looking very good). That strikes me as a much better use of his summer.

AK

Generic,
I think Fisher's abilities are being overrated, and if there aren't other moves made (i.e J.O.) then his plaoff experience isn't going to matter, because the Lakers will likely be out in the first round again. If a move similar to that is made, then I am OK with the Fisher signing, because the team would be in a "win now" position.

Aloha Lakerbake

I have to disagree with you on your J.O trade. He isnt enough of an up grade over L.O to make us a contender, it would be more of a lateral move, while giving up young prospects. The only way I would make a J.O trade is if we can substitute Kwame for Lamar. Now that would make us a contender. I would even give Bird his choice of point guards to go with Bynum and Kwame plus filler. Then I would re-sign mihn. we could move JO to PF and move Lamar to the 3 where he belongs. Now you have a line up.

PG Fish/ either Jordon or Ctit
SG Kobe/ MO
C Mihm/ Vet min (C Webb?)
PF JO/ Ronny
SF Lamar/ Luke

I believe that line up would contend. If we cant keep Lamar a JO trade wouldnt help us much.

MH

SBPimp:

He said that I rocked, so I thought I'd repay the compliment in the most extreme way possible. Would it help if I said that you were cool like The Fonz? I'll say it. I will... I swear.

Fisher is the better choice. First, from a bottom line numbers standpoint - even his stats are better. Second, he understands the triangle offense inside and out. Third - he provides veteran leadership, crucial from the point guard position, and we need to get older. PJ's has a history of extending veteran point guards careers in the triangle - remember Ron Harper and Brian Shaw? Fifth - while I wouldn't let it be the overriding decision, which player would make KB happier - Derek Fisher of Steve Blake? When you are trying to keep the best player in the league happy, you make certain concessions. This was no-brainer

Michael H,

Just to clarify (and not steal thunder), BK actually wrote this post. But I happen to agree with him (and by definition, you) that neither Fish nor Blake is enough to take the Lakers to the Finals. I also think that between the two, Fish is the better call for the Lakers' particular situation right now. Any other season and it could be a different story. But given all the madness of late, I think Fish's presence, experience and mutual respect with Kobe puts him over the top.

AK

ex:

I've always been one of the great detractors of getting JO. I think that anything we trade for him will be a lateral move because we'll be giving up too many pieces for an oft-inured sour-puss. He's not even that great of an upgrade over Odom, which is why I'd like to see us re-sign Mihm for like 3 years at $8 million and check out how we do this year with this roster before we start making any more major changes. Our major problem this year was injuries and if we're able to sustain the world beating status that we had achieved before everyone started going down, I honestly think that we'd be contenders.

The one thing that we were really lacking was a veteran presence because it's obvious that Kobe still doesn't know how to hold that down. So Fisher is the answer to that problem. He'll command respect from everyone including Kobe and if Kobe doesn't rely on his veteran knowledge, then I think it's about time to Ex-nay on the Obe-kay.

We don't want Ron Artest. Let everyone understand that.

Ron Artest, while a good player, has brought nothing but chaos to EVERY place he has been. He would do the same here.

We do not want Artest.

The only player that we should be willing to commit to any major trade for is Kevin Garnett.

If we don't get Garnett, everyone (with the exception of Kobe, who simply cannot step up any more) needs to step up next year and be healthy. Period.

GO LAKERS!

ex,
although blake may have had the better shooting percentage, in my opinion fisher is a better shooter, good shooter hit big shots. If we were to go by percentages luke walton is a better shooter than both of them. Fisher is a proven winner and clutch shooter. Blake on the other hand is yet to prove anything. Last season playing behind AI and melo he should have shot way better than he did.

I will put it this was, if you were a defender and you had to choose between leave fisher or blake open who would you choose? I would definitely cover fisher and let blake fire away.

Jon,
if i may ask who is WE?
if people on the blog want ron ron arent they fans with an opinion too?

I am neither here nor there but if i was the GM i probably make the trade, because we cannot really win with what we have now so why not take the chance, its a not so high risk high reward situation. Last year ron ron didnt really cause any trouble other than his incident with his wife (which he seemed very wrong for).

Generic,
I like having Fisher on the team; the problem is whether the Lakers get enough out of him on the floor, considering that his signing means that the Lakers have only the MLE next year, again. I would have felt the same about Blake, but I think that he gives the Lakers more on the court, which they will need if they don't make any additions.

As far as J.O. vs. L.O., L.O.'s offensive game doesn't mesh real well with Kobe's. J.O. also gives a shotblocking presence the Lakers don't have, which is important considering their weak perimeter offense.

It would be nice to know what the F.O.s honest assessment of Mihm is, because if he is able to play at the level he was before he got hurt after getting rid of the rust, and subsequently show a reasonable amount of improvement, it changes the picture quite a bit.

Just think, if Mihm hadn't gotten hurt, and continued on the path he was on, and Kwame had been able to play a mediocre level at PF (just defense and rebounding) the Lakers would nave been contenders the last two years. Not unreasonable expectations. And everyone would be singing Kupchak's praises for the brilliant job he did after Shaq left.

Another reason I think Mitch is not getting a fair shake from most of the posters here.

Ose,
We're not talking about the 2002 Fisher, we're talking about the 2007 Fisher. Too many are forgetting that.

ex,
i dont really think blake will give us more on the court than fisher will. Blakes stats from last year are a little inflated because of the system he played in, it was an uptempo style so you have more posessions in the game also majority of his assists/ points came in transition, where as utah played alot more half court grind it out basketball.

if Kobe really wants to improve the guys around him, he should get ahold of Javaris Crittenton and have his people set up a workout program for him for the rest of the summer to prepare him for the rigors of the regular season. I know all this is against DLeague competition but... Javaris looks damn good and if he can maintain his stamina next year through the season, he should get significant minutes. Phil may not like rookies but this guy could thrive in the triangle, even as a rookie. For God's sake, don't trade Crittenton for some short term fix!!!

One thing thats interesting about Steve Blake, Jason Hart and Chucky Atkins is that they all are lifetime back up players and it seems as though they will continue to be so.

Blake is going back to Portland but will probably back up jarret jack or sergio rodriguez. Jason hart will back up Deron williams and Atkins will probably start but in the end of the game let Iverson control the point.

And lets not mention Mo Williams who played great in a contract year, waited to cash in the most money, trading cash for wins, and now who knows what the Bucks will get ala Mike James.

At least in Fisher the Lakers get a legitmate starting point guard, maybe not capable of playing 30 minutes anymore, but someone who knows how to play the point in the crunch time moments/fourth quarter.

The way Kobe and Luke have talked about Fisher coming, i think the leadership that Fisher will bring will be priceless. I mean the dude has the utmost respect of two of the three best players on the team- Kobe and Walton, and Odom will love him when he meets him.

And whomever they bring in, an artest, garnett, o'neal will all love the guy too. Imagine bringing in Mo Williams who wouldnt pass the ball to Kobe, or Mo Williams, Hart, or somebody not liking Artest.

Its like having another coach on the court, except even better because Im sure the players would listen to fisher more than Jackson at the end of the game.

Also:

Some interesting free agents available

Hassan Adams
Jarvis Hayes
Melvin Ely

I like the potential of Ely for shotblocking and athletic ability. Jarvis, when healthy is a nice scorer and Id see javaris and jarvis on the same team. Hassan Adams is a highlight real.

ex:

I still have to disagree about JO. He's been playing in the EC where he still goes up against some pretty soft front courts and yet he still has a worse FG% than LO (by about 5%, actually). JO has had a string of knee injuries and surgeries which contribute to this - not many actually come back strong after they've had them. JO plus whomever we would send would be a lateral move at best.

Blake is really overrated on these boards. In the original free agent listing post, I had ranked him in the lowest in all but one category. His defense isn't any better than Fisher's and his passing ability is way, way lower. Fisher is a much better choice at this point, especially given our current cap considerations.

Watup AK/BK:

Just here to answer the "Question"

"would the Lakers have been better off bringing him (Steve Blake) in over Derek Fisher?"

Well HEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO.

It's that JOHNNY WALKER. ha? Steve Blake over D, Capital D i mean, Fish? C'Mon Playa...

dfish brings skill, knowledge of the triangle, and far more presence than blake.

why does everyone get excited about the fact that artest got in trouble? you think that makes his value go down? yeah... not just for sac but for us too. this guy can't stay out of trouble and that makes you scheme of more ways to get him? forget this clown.

So it's totally been said, but I think Fisher was a fantastic signing. Even if Blake would come for the same money, I think he's only slightly better than Fisher on the court, I really don't think you can overestimate the value of Fisher being so familiar with the offense. Especially as a point guard, already knowing the offense is huge, especially if your contract is only three years. If, as has been the case in the past, Blake wasn't truly effective until midway through the second year, his value on a three year contract goes down by at least 25%, which is waaaay more than he outperforms Fisher on the court. Throw in Fisher's intangibles off the court and he's the no-brainer choice.

Did anyone see the line from the starting backcourt from this afternoon's Sumer League game?? JC: 28 points, JF: 6 AST, 4 STL. I LOVE both of these guys. People always harp on JC being bigger and more athletic than JF, but we've traditionally had problems with small, quick guards - even during the 3peat years. I think they are both could be a big part of the future.

Anybody else see Crittenton play tonight? Dude is sick.

AK

Absolutely agree.

Generic one I agree with you on JO. He is in the east and would be joining the big boys in the west. As far as offense is concerened However I think this is more about position for Lamar. Lamar should be playing tthe 3 not the 4. He isnt a post player per say. He scores a lot in the paint but it comes from driving the ball from the outside in. Thats why It could be great if we could get JO without giving up Lamar. We need 3 go to guys to contend.

MH

Remember in 2001 when Derek Fisher was a spark plug for the Lakers when he became a starter after returning from the injured list? The Lakers were having the first of their internal bickering then too. Fisher will provide the same spark and stability.

I think what we need makes a difference, from what's available. Sure you can argue that Steve Blake would have been a better choice...but aside from the fact that earlier, he was projected for the close to full MLE range...Fish makes more sense for us. Why? Because by most accounts, we have ourselves some nice guard talent (Java + Farmar) and all they really need is time to season, and good tuteledge...DFish can do that. Fish can teach them the game while showing them how it's done on the floor.

I've also never thought of Blake as a defender per say. I admit DFish is getting closer to ancient, having never been that good defensively either (just a bit slow)...however, what he has is veteran quirks. Let's face it, the league calls touch fouls more than it should be called... the time of one-on-one lockdown D is fast becoming obsolete, and defense nowadays has a lot to do with reputation than actual D game. DFish has the rep, he's a good glue guy, a guy that will do what you need. And he's only 2 million and 1 year more.

JORDAN FARMAR : WAKE YOUR AZZ UP!!!

Crittenton is severely outplaying you in the summer league. We need competition so you both get better. At this rate, we wont be able to trade you let alone keep you...

Stat line from tonite:
min fgm-a 3pm-a ftm-a off def tot ast pf st to bs pts
Farmar - 28:32 0-8 0-1 5-7 1 1 2 6 2 4 1 0 5
Crittenton - G 33:19 9-18 2-3 8-9 1 2 3 3 0 0 3 0 28
http://www.nba.com/summerleague2007/games/boxscore.jsp?gameId=1520700047

wow...

I gotta give Kupchak props for not drafting by position here and getting the best player available...

I seem to remember only a few weeks ago everyone was ready to through that 1st round 19th draft pick away, use it as filler for a trade, any trade, just make a trade. Now that we actually have a player who was taken with that pick and who might turn out to be very good, aren't you all glad we didn't throw that pick away on some foolish trade?

- Fish is the better signing/ but Blake is the better player

I'm a little biased because i'm a Terrapin class of 1999. But, Blake is a steady point guard. He's a throwback who knows how to run an offense and is a better shooter than people realize. He would be a really good defender, but he's kind of a waif.

I think Fish is a better fit b/c he already has the respect of PJ and Kobe and he knows the triangle already.

GO MARYLAND!!!!

Jon,

I must say, I totally disagree with you. Ron Artest is exactly what we need. He's a tough nosed multi-talented player with both the desire and the ability to play defence.

Finding the right players to put along side Kobe is not an easy task, but Artest seems to me to be one of the few who would really thrive playing with Kobe.

I think it has something to do with Kobe respecting Artest and Artest feeling the same about Kobe. I would bet money that Artest would flourish with the Lakers and would pay big dividends on their investment. Aren't you tired of all these soft players we've had lately? Kobe seems like the only one with any noticeable killer instinct.

No, we need artest big time.

Wes

For the love of God! Ron Artest is a curse! Anyone who doesn't see that does not understand team sports.

He's a great player who brings disaster to whoever he plays with.

On an entirely different note... I'd love to see Corey Maggette don the Purple and Gold. He'd make a great Laker.

Dunlevy is an excellent coach, but he just doesn't seem to understand Maggette, which is a shame.

GO LAKERS!

wesjoe -

Couldn't agree more. I can't believe people think we DON'T need a former defensive player of the year, a fixture on the all-defensive team and a dude who is just as intense about winning as Kobe.

This dude is a legitimate scoring threat at the SF position, he can hit the 3, and he locks down the opposition's best offensive player... how do we not need him??? This guy is EXACTLY what we need, and he should continue to be our #1 target this off-season.

Put it this way - we trade LO and Bynum for KG, we get a little better overall (meaning, we get KG, but lose LO and our future center). We trade Kwame and change for Artest, we get a LOT better. In fact, I would go so far to say that if we start Fish, Bynum, LO, Kobe and Artest this year, we make it to at least the WCF. We've got a starting 5 that competes with everyone, a solid bench (Walton, Turiaf, Farmar, Crittendon, Mo Evans), a good coach, an intense team, and a hungry fan base. Tell me you wouldn't be totally psyched for opening day with that lineup.

I had just arrived at Arco and at once felt as though I had slithered through an L.A. river sewer conduit smack dab into the middle of a Paris Hilton revival. It was Kings vs. Lakers night.

Hunkered down next to hundreds of screaming little boys and girls (ages 8 to 78) all clad in purple and gold, I began to feel like the only teenager not wearing Beatle Boots on Kingsmen Day at Paramount Jr. High School in the 60's.

I queried, "Do they actually allow these people to board airplanes? Do they even allow them to drive cars? I wondered, "Maybe they grow Laker fans locally in a petri dish". I quickly dismissed that notion so as not to offend Geoff. Besides, overwhelmingly, the house was packed with fellow cow tippers, and only a couple of dozen or so brokebackers behaved like buttholes. They couldn't help themselves. You know who you are.

I was close. Real close. I could hear players and coaches conversing. "Say hey mo fo...what'd you said, suckahead...I really love the colors of spring, don't you?...Oh Luuuke, Oh Luuuke!", and so on. All of them looked worn down; tired; Kings and Lakers alike; last damn game of the season. Get it over with already!

A few random thoughts.

The front office is always getting bashed -- and nothing will change that. Every decision (a "yes") involves other decisions ("no" -- and often multiple "nos"). Since we can't always see the many "nos" made (some of which are helpful to the club) the FO gets criticism for (apparently) doing nothing.

I will get back to this point at the end. (Makes you want to read on, right?)

About the criticism, the FO will always take criticism. It comes with the territory; the nature of the job.

Look at the Von Wafer deal. Criticized for drafting him (when obviously based on this year's summer league) he has some skills; now likely the FO will get criticized because he IS showing something and he was let go!

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Now with Javaris. Mild criticism for taking him. now he is showing. So: good decision? Still a little early to tell, but probably yes. But now another decision: keep him with a modest glut of 1s we have or else trade him. Knowing that he is likely to hit -- and maybe hit big -- in a couple of years.

Same deal with Socks. At some point he is going to stand up and stand out for someone. He is not Olowokandi. When he does ... I am sure it will be all over this blog.

So, the point is: as GMs (in our dreams) we all have to accept the fact that we are dealing in decisions. And the decisions are about humans who always have the ability to surprise (and frustrate and disappoint) you. That's the nature of the game.

Another "nature of the game" is that this is a market, and that is why you will have trouble getting Artest (or even KG) because humans are involved. The Maloofs and McFrankenstein are irrational (or at least not completely rational) sellers because part of their calculus is not "I won't help another team" -- it is "I won't help the Lakers". It is one of their calculations and that is hard as a buyer to overcome.

Another thing about the market is that it isn't perfect. There is no necessary 1 to 1 relationship between product and value. The JO trade may (on paper) dictate that equal value involves Kwame, Farmar or Javaris AND Socks AND LO. That may be the way the market values have been calculated but that is far from a reasonable calculation. The market has been skewed by 30 GMs all acting independently making isolated decisions on in-house renegotiated contracts that, when then placed on the open market a year or three later, work to distort the market. There is no way that JO = LO PLUS Socks. And from the Lakers' rational perspective, it never should be allowed to be that way.

So for those of you advocating that trade, let me just ask: what are you thinking about? Why would you weaken the team you purportedly love unnecessarily, irrationally?

What is rational for the lakers is to build on the base they have (which is solid and will keep them in numerous games -- as it did last year -- but not get them over the top). Too many close game that didn't go our way that, when added up, led to a middle-to-bottom of the pack finish. Like it will again this year, unless some rational decisions not only get made, but can actually be worked out in reality.

Rationally, you have to try to keep Bynum OR LO to pair with Kobe and one other star. Rationally, you have to preserve your set of role players who know the triangle or bring something to the table. That includes Luke, Dfish, either Farmar or JC (and if possible Turiaf and Mo).

Rationally, if you ARE going to jettison LO and Bynum you don't do that in the same trade (that is, for one piece like KG) because they are your only chips in the iteration of this game (at least for this year).

A long post; my two cents

Lakers must get KG but....Bynum and JC are untouchable...Lakers have something special w/these two 19 yr old kids...

I can only hope Mchale thinks Bynum will be Benoit Benjamin and Farmar is the next Jason Kidd...

Odom, Farmar, Kwame and the #1 in 2008 should do it...

Get KG!!!!!!

bd

Phil looked pale and stressed. I eased up on him and mereely suggested that he "chill, Phil." A snapshot of his food poisoned expression told a thousand words. Yes, the man does love Sacramento. He looked poised for a massive at any moment. I really did back off.

"Hey, we can always find work for a good farmer up here in Cow Town" The player, sitting on the bench briefly glanced over and quickly turned back to the game in progress while giving a thumbs up. The man has got a head on his shoulders which is 90% of the battle.

Vladee, on the other hand, was another story entirely. A Kings fan sitting next to me kept inquiring about his hair, "Hey Snowboarder, what's up with your hair tonight...what's that all about?" Finally, the Rad Man, on the floor, with the game in progress, turned clear around to face us (for which Phil later reamed him a new one) and with teeth clenched and L.A. riot in his eyes said "God bless America, or, gee Sonny, I sure do like your Kings cap, or something like that. I can't be certain because he was not speaking english, I think. Better ask Mike. He hates the English.

Sonnybelfast

The three players who seemed least stressed and most accommodating were Francisco Garcia, Ron Artest and...you guessed it...Kobe Bryant. I was particularly impressed with Kobe's congenial relationship with players on the opposing team. All three players were reasonably accessible and a pleasure, although I doubt that Arco authorities will ever let me sit that close (some celebrities and sports reporters were actually seated behind me) to the action again.

As you know, I believe it has clearly been demonstrated that Kobe is not a good fit. He has phenomenal ability; just not a good fit. I know, many of you do not agree with my assessment (after all, I'm a Kings fan), but, will you consider that it may be more than remotely possible that the Saint will not be a Laker sooner than later?

Indulge me here. If this is true (and you know it is), why isn't this board being lit up with potential Laker line-ups which include some of your current players and whatever you might get in exchange for Kobe?

Seems like the prudent thing to do, because all of this may be your reality, like it or not, before the cows come home.

Sonnybelfast

Fisher is a great signing for the Lakers....good veteran to have around.

But please, this nonsense about trades for Jermaine, Garnett or Artest. The Lakers have players that nobody else seems to want. Like Geoff Petrie is desperate to move Artest so badly that he'll send him to the Lakers. Uh huh.

Garnett....Bynum and Odom aren't good enough to reel him in. And Jermaine O'Neal...would he be that much better than Odom...and is he worth both Bynum and O'Neal. Not sure he is.

It is really STRANGE how some people think STEVE BLAKE is even COMPARABLE with DFish. Having problems in an offense that is BUILT for Point Gurads (Steve Blake and the RunNGun Denver offense) getting to the game just off the AIRPLANE and winning a PLAYOFF OT game for his team? 3 Ring for Fish, Occasional 3 pointer made for Blake. WOW WOW WOW.

Anyway I wanna talk about

the 2 DEALS I WOULD DO and otherwise would LEAVE it alone.:

1) KG, Hassell for LO, Bynum, Kwame

2) JO, Danny Granger for LO, Bynum

Other than that, let's JUST keep the same people I think BIG of JC the rookie and LO this year will be a different STORY. If LUCK is on our side.....

Lakers must get KG but....Bynum and JC are untouchable...Lakers have something special w/these two 19 yr old kids...

I can only hope Mchale thinks Bynum will be Benoit Benjamin and Farmar is the next Jason Kidd...

Odom, Farmar, Kwame and the #1 in 2008 should do it...

Get KG!!!!!!

bd

Posted by: bd | July 14, 2007 at 09:59 PM

wishful thinking....points for trying though. but ill take out odom and put in sasha. hahaha

For the love of God! Ron Artest is a curse! Anyone who doesn't see that does not understand team sports.

He's a great player who brings disaster to whoever he plays with.

On an entirely different note... I'd love to see Corey Maggette don the Purple and Gold. He'd make a great Laker.

Dunlevy is an excellent coach, but he just doesn't seem to understand Maggette, which is a shame.

GO LAKERS!

Posted by: Jon Kavulic | July 14, 2007 at 09:20 PM

if we got maggette, we might as well be called the los angeles suns and run the phx offense cuz there would be zero defense on that squad just like the real suns. i do argee that corey is a monster tho.

Jon,

I must say, I totally disagree with you. Ron Artest is exactly what we need. He's a tough nosed multi-talented player with both the desire and the ability to play defence.

Finding the right players to put along side Kobe is not an easy task, but Artest seems to me to be one of the few who would really thrive playing with Kobe.

I think it has something to do with Kobe respecting Artest and Artest feeling the same about Kobe. I would bet money that Artest would flourish with the Lakers and would pay big dividends on their investment. Aren't you tired of all these soft players we've had lately? Kobe seems like the only one with any noticeable killer instinct.

No, we need artest big time.

Wes

Posted by: wesjoenixon | July 14, 2007 at 08:39 PM

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

artest would be dangerous for the lakers. not in a bad way, but he would do the same thing for the lakers that he did for the queens when they got him from indy. he instantly made them better on defense. his presense dropped sac opp scoring avg by 10 pts when he joined. thats a MAJOR imrovement! we all know that the lakers are super soft on defense so this should be a no brainer. i would rather pick up this guy than JO since it wont take much to aquire him. im still worried about JO in this new more powerful western con. not saying that i dont think hes a great player or the lakers shouldnt get him, but i get the feeling that he may not be able to handle it. at least for this year. especially since its essentially gonna be him and kobe vs the rest of the league. i wouldnt put much stock in anyone else on that depleted roster.

You're right. The Lakers lack Testes. He's just what you need. He's a flat out stopper and shoots threes more efficiently than the Saint. He'd put Kobe in his place and together under the floor leadership of a Walton or Farmar would make you champions again.

That's why Petrie won't let it happen, unless of course you give up Bynum, Lamar and a 1st rounder. Even then, Ron in purple and gold just wouldn't seem right.

Sonnybelfast

Critterton rocks. At least that's my impression from watching a couple of the Summer league games on the web. Unfortunately, the broadcasts are the worst rubbish I've ever seen. There's a guy who simply announces the name of the player who just made a basket or fouled. He doesn't even bother to announce the score, except at the very end of each quarter. When there's a timeout he says, "Time out. There's a timeout on the court, as if it was a voicemail recording.". You'd think he was a bleeding autist, but after his standard timeout sentence he actually reads a short commercial for something or other. And the TV coverage is incredible. They immediately repeat every made basket without exception, which means you don't see the next 20" of action. My interest was tracking how guys like Critterton and Karl move around the court, set up plays, get back on defense, position themselves on the offense etc. Even watching the complete game I reckon I only saw about 20% of the action. Still, Javaris is impressive: speed, ball handling, court vision, inside moves, deft passing, reading the play and even defense (I think, but that's the hardest thing to track with the TV editing);

The Wolf,

Brother, lest ye forget that Ron Artest is a person with MAJOR psychological issues who chooses to surround himself with people who are borderline-sociopaths. Not a great mix. I don't see how Artest is going to help our team be a team.

Hey! I've got a great idea! Why don't we trade Bynum, Luke, and Farmar for Artest, Ruben Patterson, Shawn Kemp, Stephen Jackson, Rasheed Wallace! Now that's a team I can root for!

The Wolf. Don't be lured by the power of the Dark Side of the Force.

We don't need Ron Artest.

GO LAKERS!

Barring major injuries (or any injuries that could force the team to make significant adjustments to the rotation for a long period of time) the Lakers
will be competitive next year with the roster they have.

One of the huge defects in the team last year was the point guard. Derek Fisher is not a top flight point guard, but he is 100% improvement over last year's. His presence, all things being equal, will add about 5 wins over last season. 5 wins in the NBA season can have significant ramifications. A win or two can sustain a a winning streak or break a losing streak. Any of these happenings can improve team confidence, and good things can come out of it.

For the Lakers to win the championship next season is not impossible. The Lakers have NOT been cursed. Luck could come their way and could play against teams they are comparitively better. And this could happen throughout the playoffs. Remember two playoffs ago. If the Lakers had beaten the Suns, they would have played the Clippers in the second round and then the Mavs. The latter two games were all winnable two playoffs ago.

The Lakers have in Kobe one of the best players in the league who can at any night use his skill to win a game. By extension, he can win a series given the right level of support.

The focus on winning should be shifted to the coaching staff. Phil Jackson is adequately compensated and he is good enough to find a way to get other players have a breakout season. Who was talking about Gerald Wallace two seasons ago. Nobody. But with good coaching and opportunity, he was a much sought out player in the free agency period. The same goes to Mo Williams of the Bucks. There are some players on the Lakers' roster with talent who can do likewise.

Should the Lakers trade for a big star right now? Not necessarily. If they get one fine. If not, all is not lost. The goal is moving along the right path and improving.

We are the Lakers!

Sonny,

You're a couple weeks to late Bro. We did the whole "what team should we trade Kobe to" thing a while ago. A couple teams emerged that MIGHT make sense to trade him to, but in reality the only team that Kobe SHOULD play for is the Lakers. When everything first came out I was tight (mad at) with the front office, and was hoping he would get traded to the Knicks (since I live in NY), or the Bulls. But it seems like the FO is at least ATTEMPTING to do something big. I know attempting isn't doing, but this is the first time since Kobe resigned that I actually feel the FO trying to go out and get better, not just relying on our young players to develop.

Tsphere,

You have more patience than I do. I tried watching yesterdays game on the web ( NBA.COM ), and it was
awful. It was exactly as you described. They wouldn't even show the score on screen, let alone announce it. At first, I thought the sound was not working, because there were these long silent gaps. You'd think,
that just out of boredom, an announcer would have a little bit more to say. If I wanted to check the score, I had
to go back to the web page with the box scores. Pitiful.

Roger

ARtest is one of the best bargains in the NBA at his salary. If Sacramento wants to deal with a player they obviously cannot control, then it will be fun to watch them implode year after year. LA is the one place that's big enough or any one person's dysfunction.

You'd think that Kobe, Phil and Fish could keep enough of a lid on Ron to make it through a season. It would be fun to watch them on the defensive end. Having said that, I've "heard" ( I know, lame, but it's from the "inside") that Phil is the guy against bringing in Ron. It could be he sees something there even he can't control or, at this point in his life, he's not interested in dealing with.

Jon,

When I think about personality types that "hurt" teams, Artest doesn't fit the description. What exactly has he done on the court that makes him untrustworthy or detrimental to the other guys on the squad?

I would worry more about me-first guys like T.O, Stephon marbury, Barry Bonds, Keyshon Johnson and--dare I say--Kobe Bryant, than someone like Artest.

And neither is Artest a player that I consider dumb, which would worry me if he were my teammate. Guys like Olden Polynice would worry me...

Wes

Wes

Artest? We're not getting Artest. Sacto wants too much for him and even if they did trade him, the last place they would trade him... would be to us.

Let's say we did get him. We would have to give up A LOT because obviously Kwame + filler hasn't interested Sacto. Why would they want Vlad Rad? or even Cook? We'd have to give up a good, young player, like Farmar, probably next year's first round pick and then enough salary to make the deal possible, and we can't do a sign and trade with Luke anymore so??? I know a few of you would want to toss in Bynum for whatever reason... but after we get Artest here and he has his eventual meltdown, because this guy isn't like Rodman, Rodman could keep his s**t together enough that you could depend on him and the league wasn't as suspension happy back then as it is now. So then Artest melts down and his trade value will be nothing and instead of building depth at positions on our team, for ex. at PG, Fisher, Farmar, Crittenton, we would have lost Farmar - weakening PG, then lost Artest, weakening SF and whatever other chaff we would have tossed into the trade weakening another position. Let's say they actually take Vlad Rad. Then our ONLY SF after an Artest meltdown would be... Luke Walton... nice...

Somebody posted this Bynum highlight, but... everybody is in a rush to trade him...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCMBKzEHba0&mode=related&search

I'm just glad they didn't continue the trend and sign him to 8 years and $65 million.

Nik K:

"The sky hook is a devastating shoot, and if Bynum at the age of 20 can start to use it in his arsenal, he has a very bright future."

Yes, and if Bynum learned how to fly, he has a very bright future, too... but I would bet he learns how to fly before he ever uses the skyhook, a move that only ONE player I NBA history has ever mastered.

Artest is the best deal for the Lakers, he would provide toughness and grit on defense. Right now, our forwards are softies like napkins from Vlad, Walton and Mihm (if he's ever he's a laker player at all) One gets hurt why snowboarding while the other one compounds his ankle injury on rehab. On the contrary, nobody will trade with lakers and more so to teams like Sacto and Minny, they just hate the Lakers. there are just too many battle scars from previous playoffs' frustrations from these two teams that they extend it to trading of players.

From the looks of it, Fisher is the last move that this F/O can do, they are unlucky because no teams would like to absorb our players & won't give the one's we're eyeing for, if ever they wanted also to include their high cost garbage like: Troy Murphy or Troy Hudson or Jaric to any deals.

Having said that, it does not exonerate Mitch Kupchak. He has to go, to bring back the morale of this team as well as the fans. He became a symbol of failure in the post Shaq era. We have to start from Square One in the front office. Jim Buss has to be relegated in the background. Kobe is silent but he's observing on the corrections being made. Don't ever attempt of intriguing the team by propping up Bynum and Walton as new leaders, yould create conflicts that will be hard to resolve. Perceptions are strong messages and Bynum, the poor lad became a symbol of Jim Buss choice and Walton, the favorite player who was overpaid by Mitch, now he's propping him up to be the new leader. Wrong move and wrong read and may create dissensions within the team if they will do that, not good for Fisher and Crittenton the new faces of Lakers. ( If you analyze how corporate politics start in any company where you have been affiliated, it starts with an unpopular issue then the top management promotes an unpopular middle manager as their eyes and ears in the lower echelon, it creates dissensions and job dissatisfaction from the rank and file. We don't need that kind of scenario with the Lakers.) Going back to Kupchak, if he has to resort to ignoring fans, like Andy Martinez & his buddies in Vegas, there will be more like that around LA, around staples, in the bars, in the media, well, because there are lots of talents in this city that can do the job of Kupchak, people will be wondering why he's still there?

Artest has a relatively small contract, and only two years left, so it would not ruin the future if he doesn't work out.

Definitely a risk worth taking; but it seems likely that Sacto is asking too high a price.

Crittenton scores 28?! I haven't seen such a summer league surprise since Turiaf. Granted it's not officially the season, but it does bring some hope.

Weave Man

Re; creating Laker line-ups that do no include Kobe or the penal code

"We did that 'what team should we trade Kobe to' thing a while ago"

Very good. Only recently have I been able to jump back into the blog more often, so I missed it, obviously, although this has never stopped exhumations and continued ad nauseum mauling of topics in the past.

By the way (idiot posing another rhetorical question to idiots), at what consensus did this forum arrive? How did the team look without its Saint?

Ron Artest news:
http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/273771.html

Summer League:
http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/273684/html

Sonnybelfast

I agree that Artest wouldnt be a headcase on the team. I think the real worry is his off the court behavior. Could he handle being a star in Los Angeles?

I think Artest would have some interest in LA to create a hollywood image, for his singing and most likely future acting career. But could he stay out of trouble??

By the way, did you guys know that Ron Artest has a B.S. in Mathematics from St. Johns U???

Why do some of ya'll just focus on negatives and things that are already done. Like the Fisher signing. We need more talk about our pretty impressive rookie pg. He is putting up big points and shooting around 50% mark. I believe the Lakers got the steal of the draft and will prove his worth this year!

Come on Chopper man,

Too high a price? Too high for the Lakers perhaps. Artest is one of the best and hardest working players in the league.

Sonnybelfast

wesjoenixon,

You said: I would worry more about me-first guys like T.O, Stephon marbury, Barry Bonds, Keyshon Johnson and--dare I say--Kobe Bryant, than someone like Artest.

I would suggest that it is incorrect to put Kobe in this list. Before the final year of Shaq, Kobe had not given
any hint that he was "me-first". To use that year is sketchy, in my opinion, because it does not take into
account the well documented me-first behavior of Shaq. [ Waiting on surgery until the season started.
Demanding 30 million/year during pre-season, constant weight issues, constant public rhetoric about
how he's the Big Everything in basketball and life.... ], it does not take into account the ridiculous lack of
talent he's had to play with since Shaq was traded. It does not take into account the coaching issues
that he had to deal with the first year that Shaq was gone, It does not take into account the tremendous
team basketball he was playing until his teammates got hurt and traded in their shooting skills for kick backs
from various sucky teams like NY and Boston.

Taoshurn,

You said: if Kobe really wants to improve the guys around him, he should get ahold of Javaris Crittenton and have his people set up a workout program for him for the rest of the summer to prepare him for the rigors of the regular season.

How about this: If the rest of the guys around Kobe really wanted to improve they would call Kobe up and work out with him. All the responsibility is put on Kobe to make everyone else better. These are professional athletes who are paid better than anyone else on the planet. They should get off of there
sorry butts and push to make themselves better, not go snowboarding or start record companies. They
should learn to play defense and shoot freethrows instead of opening up BBQ restaurants. By many
accounts they are well to over-paid, and yet almost no-one wants them. If Lamar is as good as some
believe, a straight up trade would work for JO. Maybe if he used his right hand more and played better
defense we wouldn't be trying to get JO or KG. Don't get me wrong. I like Lamar and don't particularly feel
that we need to trade him. I'm just tired of all the Kobe hate and all the Kobe blame. For me, if you were to
pay me 2 million dollars per year, I would shoot free-throws and study film for 8 HOURS a day.

exhelodrvr,
d-fish is a better signing than any other point guard that was available because of the offense that's run,
the coach of the team, and the chemistry that already exists with the star of the team. There is no
evidence to support that any of the other point guards would be better at mentoring than D-fish. There
were/are no other pg's who have actually won multiple championships who were available. There is
no evidence to support that Kobe would have gotten along with the other pg's as well as he "already"
does with D-fish. We're good man.

To all who care, barring injuries I publicly declare that we will be at least the 5th seed coming into the
playoffs. Of course, I could be wrong. I'm estatic with the signing of D-fish. Now if only we
could do something about the Center position .....

Aloha Taoshum

I do not believe Kwame, Jordon and #1 pick would be over paying for Artest. When you consider what we would have to give up for another impact player, that is very cheap.

MH

Something tells me Kobe will get some sorta injury while playing for USA and milk it all season, thus avoiding a holdout and still getting paid ! Damn I hope I'm wrong on this one ! Not a good way of thinking to start off my B-Day today !

If we get artest w/o giving up odom or bynum I'm willing to root for the lakers again next year. Like if the price was kwame and one of our rookie pg's that'd be cool.

And being that's more realistic than a garnet deal and that an oneal for odom swap isn't much less of an upgrade, toss in bynum in d deal for oneal and we're getting robbed ... i think the artest deal is what cupcake and spoiled jimmy buss need to be pursuing if they're willing to mend fences with kobe.

For all the talk about kobe being egotistic you'd think artest is the last guy he'd want on his team. this is the same dude that supposedly broke jordan's rib when he was training to make his comeback with the wizards and set mj's schedule back. If nothing else this just proves our boy just wants to win ... he's willing to do w/e it takes to achieve this goal ... it's about time our FO develop a back bone and start making tough decisions instead of hiding behind all this oh we're young lets wait and see crap

Hey then agan maybe they'll just save us all the trouble and trade kobe. I' cool with whatever so long as my man gets help. Hopefully it happens in purple and gold, but like mamba said. we'll take team pluto if they got their act right.

I Hear What You Are Sayin Jon, But Until Artest Proves That He Is Like Randy Moss On The Court, Id Give Him A Chance. And Please Nobody Bring Up The Palace Debocle

Taliq,

Getting Artest at the expense of LO and Bynum, that's to high a price no way. Artest is not KG, even JO it should be Bynum and any others except LO. Go on the list, there are no more players available after KG and JO, Fisher and Critt are good additions.

Fisher is the best teacher for Critt' and Farmar as the Cap to Bynum. Believe me there will be no more trades from this point on, Lakers should just prepare for early pre-season tune ups, let's see if Yue and Karl could add to the firepower. I'm excited to these two guys, so far they showed some consistency in the Summer League.

Hobbitmage,

"These are professional athletes who are paid better than anyone else on the planet. They should get off of there sorry butts and push to make themselves better, not go snowboarding or start record companies. They
should learn to play defense and shoot freethrows instead of opening up BBQ restaurants or furnitures stores."

We may disagree that Lakers are now in the 5th seed, but I totally subscribe to what you observed about the Laker players last season. While Kobe may be promoting Nike, he did his homework and honed up his game while our other players started that season lackadaisically because of their initials success, it went into their head. They think they were really in the fifth seed and took other teams for granted expecially cellar dweller teams like the Raftors and Grizzlies. What we could not understand why Lakerscan you win games against Spurs and lost to Raftors the next day, win again against Dallas then lose again to Bucks, Blazers. That was unforgivable and question their professionalism. At that time, Luke Walton was promoting this furniture store in La Mirada while Sasha, Smush and MO were promoting these car dealers or signing books at the bookstores. They only work for the Lakers during company time like when PJ calls some practice, or before the game starts, the rest of the day they go moonlighting promoting themselves. Your game is the reflection of you, and if you continue losing games, no sane person will buy whatever you're promoting.

hobbitmage, that's not Kobe hating to post something like that. Kobe, through his $20m salary and Nike connections, etc. etc. has access to the best trainers in the world, above and beyond what the Lakers as a world class organization already have. The people who set up his (Kobe's) training program could set up something for Crittenton, specifically to use the time he has left in the summer to prepare for the rigors of handling the season - if the Lakers themselves haven't already done that. Kobe's trainers obviously know what they are doing - look at the results. Why not "lead by example" and reach out to Crittenton, invite him to the compound and let him in on the secret? Convert him to Scientology, I don't care, but that would really be leading by example if Kobe did something like that.

and yes, Kwame, Jordan and the #1 pick is too much for Artest if Artest has another meltdown and gets suspended by the league for 30 games or so, which is entirely possible. Now instead of having D Fish, Farmar and Crittenton at PG, the first time in years our PG position has been so solid and instead of having Kwame and his contract available for trade for whoever becomes available around the trade deadline as well as our #1 pick next year we would be sitting on ONE player with NO trade value. Yes, Artest is talented but... the guy is a walking disaster, he's been given every chance, he's been on 3 teams now, we would be his fourth, and every team couldn't wait to get rid of him despite how good he was on the court, there's a good reason for that... Why would he suddenly change here? Phil? LOL!

Bottom line Taoshum

the lakers are in a position where they need to roll the dice. A trade for Artest would be risky but for what we would have to give up, the risk would be justifed. I would go as far as saying the Artest trade would be less risky then a KG trade. If we traded for KG we give up future in Bynum, Javaris or Famar and picks and our present in Lamar and Kwame. We would now have 2 guys earning 42 million, we would still need a 3rd go to guy, a thin bench and no tradeable assets or cap space to sign anyone esle. And if we dont win? How do we improve? That to me is far risker then Artest.

MH

Edwin,

You really think that JO is an all-around better player than Testes?
If yes, how so?

Ron Artest is not coming to the Lakers. Stop arguing about it.

About Artest:

Most of this discussion is academic, for another year or so, at minimum. Short of Bynum, LO, and change in exchange, he definitely won't become a Laker anytime soon, you can bank on it. Do you think Petrie was born yesterday? Even the owners aren't that Magoofy.

Sonnybelfast

is sasha still under contract or is he a FA? sasha or coby karl? they always talk about how sasha is a lights out shooter in practice but it doesnt count in practice. he has only one game where he made a difference that i remember. i understand that carl would be a thrid stringer but who else would rather have him over sasha? plus carl is shooting about 47% threes in the summer league, so not to bad. what you guys think? who else has made an impression on the summer league team that deserves a second look by the lakers?

Sonnybelfast,

Any of the two will help the Lakers and change the dynamics of the Lakers. Will the Maloofs release Artest to the Lakers? JO is also good but not at the expense of two bigs unless it's KG. Also with Artest, don't you think it's too high price to get Lo and Bynum.

Lakers will just wait the day they opt out from their contracts, right now it's on a stalemate position.

I remember about three weeks ago before the draft day I heard this Luther Head and Bonzi for Cook and Sasha, what happened?

Ya gotta believe if Artest were going anywhere there'd be an ESPN truck parked by his house (if he still has one) looking for soundbytes. They know they can't get value for him and obvoiusly think he'll behave, which he will, until something goes wrong.

He'd be a great addition but only if he comes cheap, the way Sacto got him in the first place. He hasn't done anything since showing up in Arnold country that would warrant a much bigger price tag.

LO and Andrew are tier 2 Laker trade bait. Take any 2 from tier 3, send back Ron, and that's an upgrade. If not, not. Don't want to be left out of the playoffs with nothing but ROn after hours to deal with... you know, like Sac is now.

reportedly petrie wants kwame, a PG and a first round pick for artest, i doubt that it will happen but thats what i heard. i didnt hear anything about odom being involved in the deal.

plus artest will earn about 8M while odom will earn about 13M so the odom+bynum for artest wont work that easy, the kings will need to add quite a little bit for it to work. the would have to give up either kenny thomas or Abdul rahim to make it work and i dont really see that happening.

Conspiracy theory.

I didn't really know what to think when my liver first started speaking to me, but eventually came to accept it. It certainly wasn't a common thing to happen. Well, it hadn't been. These days though, it seemed to be more of a daily occurrence than anything else. I'd ignore it every once in a while, but then it'd just start