I am taw-wy

It is good to hear he apologized.

Why would anyone think Fish would do such a thing? He's a stand up guy and we all know it. As for Mamba apologizing...maybe he just couldnt stand not being in sportcenter for too long.

i remember slava as being the only other laker apart from kobe that could hit a shot vs the pistons during the end of the reign.....

<3 slava.

thanks AK, and thanks to your father as well.

AK,

Great take on the Fisher situation. Besides wishing the best for the dude and his family, folks should just lay off the topic.

AK,

Nice bit on the Fish thing. I for one thinks he doesn't play basketball next year unless it's for the Nets or Knicks (neither of who need him). My guess is "basketball and the third best city" come in a distant second to "Best city and no basketball".

Hope he finds the best spot for his family, even though I would love to have him back next year.

I can't believe someone would have the balls to insinuate Fisher had any motives other than his daughter in this ordeal. I don't know what kind of moron would say such things, but they certianly aren't welcome around these here parts that's for sure.

AK,

dont do dak

dat's diiiiight!

-crackhead bob

i miss that dude.

Taliq,

I agree. I don't really like to even think about where Fisher will end up. It feels almost ghoulish. Wherever he plays, he plays (assuming he even plays at all). As much as the sight of Fish in a Laker uni again is always a welcome thought, to a large degree and given the circumstances, I don't care. You know what I mean?

AK

Glda Kobe went to Mitch to patch up some of the mess that's been created. That says alot in the end, especially when it gave us so much to ponder with the future of our team.

As for D-Fish. I know he could care less about b-ball while his childs health is a concern. If he decides to play this year all the best to him no matter which jersey he wears or city he lands in. Derek is a stand up guy that will give his all on the court but right now his focus is and should be on his daughter... That said I'd like th see him in Purple & Gold again.

AK,
I highly doubt that L.A cannot provide adequete treatment for his daughter. I've heard there are many specialized eye centers in L.A that can help. I don't know if I buy that New York and Boston are the only true destinations. I feel if he doesn't come to L.A, it's not just because of his daughter.

Taliq

good point... "Besides wishing the best for the dude and his family, folks should just lay off the topic."

Fisher could care less about B-ball? I was probably the only one who was actually upset that Fisher flied back after his daughter's surgery so he wouldn't miss a playoff basketball game. Give me a break. He is not Kobe Bryant or SHaq. The fact that he came back to play instead of spending it with his family disgusts me. I can understand MAYBE if he was a superstar and his team needed him, but honestly he is just a role player. Utah would have won that series with or without him. He had other motivations in that series, and he should have just stayed home.

sixonezero,

"maybe he just couldnt stand not being in sportcenter for too long" ...

You're like it was wrong for kobe to say all those things. He says he gave an apology and your reaction is, oh that was for sports center. Classic hater logic.

This is why I'm upset he gave an apology, he should have stuck to his guns, d*mn the consequences. Kobe Bryant might one day retire as the greatest ever, whether it happens really depends on his willingness to do for him instead of doing for others. The trade talk, that was kobe talking, without a doubt, if he backs down, it'll be because he feels pressured to conform to what the masses are saying.

Like will smith said in the movie pursuit of happiness, people will always try and tell you what you can't do because they are unable or not willing to either. Kobe's dream is to be the greatest baller ever, he needs to listen to himself and not the media or the KL's of this world, because frankly speaking they don't have his handles, his cross over, or his jumpshot.

You can see it in his eyes, that “I don’t give a f*ck” look ...
http://www.blacksportsonline.com/rlkobe.html

This is the kobe that can achieve it all. Don't back down dawg, we got your back.

Zen,

It's not a matter of L.A. having no places to treat her, but places that literally specialize in this particular disease. There's a difference. My dad said the treatment was basically developed in NY. And when you're looking for treatment of a rare disease, it's not enough to just have facilities on hand. You want the area with the most experts and experience in the matter. NYC immediately came to my dad's mind as the most reputed area to treat this disease and he wasn't sure off the top of his head about where to go in L.A. That should say something in and of itself.

Again, it doesn't mean that L.A. has nothing to offer. Just that if he chooses someplace else, I'm guessing it's probably 99% the facilities, 1% the team. That was my original point.

AK

AK yeah I was thinking along those lines regarding Fisher

a) he was a better situation basketball wise in Utah

b) it would not be like him to opt out to come play for another team

Zen,

" ... feel if he doesn't come to L.A, it's not just because of his daughter."

Someday someone will invent a machine that'll allow us to read into people's minds. Until then can't you just live and let live. I'm sure there's plenty of basketball topics you can find to talk about besides some little girl's struggle with cancer and how that relates to her Dad's basketball career.

I feel bad just having to talk about it ... and a lil mad at AK for creating a thread on this ... but I'm guessing it's comments like this that motivated him to

Let's all just dead the topic ... for us superstitious type that don't want to bring any bad karma the dude's way ... hope that's enough said

zen:

Yeah, AK obviously has no idea what he's talking about. I mean, it's not like his dad is a retired ophthalmologist/eye surgeon or anything. There's no way that he could find out where the best centers in the country are for treating retinoblastoma.

Seriously though, could people just stop with this? AK has made a reasonable request and as they are the hosts of the blog, I think we could do them a favor and honor it.

zen:

you have to understand that for a lot of these guys, basketball is their escape from reality. with the blessing of his wife, he flew back to his teammates to help them out. he might not be a superstar, but don't you think his veteran experience and leadership count for something?

if D.Fish was being a prick about the whole situation, then WHY would he agree to release the Jazz from his contract (we're talking $21 million on the table).

On a limited scale, there's A LOT of mexican restaurants around here that serve tacos. but shoot, the best tacos i've had are in mexico. if i really wanted the best, i'd go to mexico. sure there's some great taco stands in LA, but the fact of the matter is, the best tacos are in mexico.

And if anyone is wondering why Fish is still considering playing basketball.... it's his job. He needs to bring home money to feed his family and pay for those treatments.

--

on another note: nice to hear KB apologized. gotta give him credit for that at least.

Just pray for Fish and his daughter in the back of your mind, and forget the bball when it comes to him. Leave him alone yeah?

...

Now can we can get back to bashing Kobe?? Or loving Kobe??

Zen,

Look at it this way. If Fisher is willing to even play for the Knicks, shouldn't that prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the team in question is secondary? haha

AK

Taliq,

I checked out your link on Darth Kobe... funny stuff. Funnier though is when he calls Vanessa a "hood chick"... she grew up inOrange County... The OC... having lived in that area for quite a while, I would hesitate to call it "hood".

I do, however, like the idea that Kobe is constantly in an internal battle for his soul.

Anyone else think that if Kobe comes to camp, has a teammates only meeting behind doors, and more or less apologzies to his teammates that it could be good for him/us in his development as a leader?

Seriously, someone made the point in another thread about how D-Fish would be able to "stand up" to Kobe when others on the team can't. I do agree with this, however, if Kobe would be able to "come down" to his teammates a little and meet them half way, that could go a long way towards motivating the squad this year to achieve more.

Fact of the matter is, it's highly unlikely that the squad is vastly different from last year at the same time it's highly unlikely that Kobe is traded. So what he needs to realize is that he needs to find a way to lead better/differently if he is going to succeed and win.

Christopher F.

For FYI, the "OC" is like newport beach. But have you been to Anaheim parts of Tustin, Buena Park ( i believe thats still orange county) and other spots?

Im not saying its S. Central but..the real orange county wasnt all of that fox tv. thats just another misguided idea. Perhaps you should leave your by the beach residence.

That being said, Kobe is still whack, and really should stop frontin'

******
Officially changing my name because I'm tired of Eddie and van, Exel and Jones, Miss Exel, Eddie Van exel, Nick Jones, or whatever. new name.

changing to The Lake-Show.

SOCAL,
"On a limited scale, there's A LOT of mexican restaurants around here that serve tacos. but shoot, the best tacos i've had are in mexico. if i really wanted the best, i'd go to mexico. sure there's some great taco stands in LA, but the fact of the matter is, the best tacos are in mexico."

Your analogy is incomplete. What if Kobe was running one of the taco stands, and he didn't want Shaq to eat there any more? And Jerry, the owner of the string of taco stands, didn't care about getting the best taco makers to work there; all he cared about was the hot babe who worked at the Blockbusters across the street.

Main Entry: hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: 'hi-p&-"krit
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritEs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

SHAQ O'NEILL:

* called Dr. Buss "that old man"
* called Laker management "cowards"
* called Tim Duncan "light and weak"
* publically mocked and insulted asians, made fun of Yao Ming
* called Brad Miller "nothing but a good high school player"
* calls the entire city of Los Angeles "Fake"
* offended many women, including model Cindy Crawford, tennis star Venus Williams and singer-actress Aaliyah, whom he publically claimed to have slept with, this while his now wife was pregnant with one of his many illigitimate children.
* publically, during an actual game!, demanded that his former boss, Dr. Jerry Buss, pay him or trade him.

Kobe haters, why don't you share your judgmental sentiments with a more deserving ex-Laker?

AK & socallife,

good points.

Fish will probably get the mid-level for 5 years. That for one extends his current contract by 2 years and he gets more money.

As for playing in New York, I don't think the players mind playing there. It's the losing that gets to you after a while, but he was at Golden State before! I would play in New York over Golden State and Utah any day.

repost

MESSAGE TO HAL9000 AND JORMEA

hal9000

“Are you blind and deaf? Kobe already stated that Buss told him he would trade Shaq regardless of whether or not he stayed -- and Shaq said he believed him. And like I said, Kobe already apologized to Shaq for all that mess.”

I don’t see your point and I can’t hear what your saying. I know haha. We can agree to disagree, it’s called propaganda and spin my friend. Shaq agreed with kobe because Shaq wanted to stay out of kobe’s drama-fest. Kobe never apologized to shaq. Nice try on the last point.

“Hello? Anybody home? KG sought Kobe out to talk to him. He wouldn't have done that if he wasn't interested in joining Kobe on the Lakers. 'Nuff said.”

My question to you is why isn’t KG here…..i know because front office [blah, blah]. There’s always an excuse for your buddy kobiatch bry-RANT.

“Anyway, actions speak louder than words”

And I agree, name one free agent of stature to play in LA after shaq's departure? Grant “over the” Hill decided to play with the Suns. Rashard Lewis to Magic. Stackhouse remains with Dallas. What about all the NBA guys drooling to play with the “greatest basketball player in the history of the NBA”? I know, actions speak louder than words and it’s [fill in the blank]’s fault…..

jormea

“That include KL, fakerz and Gunner?”

Te Gusto mucho, mi amore.

Andrew Z,
I think this leadership issue with Kobe is being blown way out of proportion. The reasons for the Lakers not doing better last season had nothing to do with Kobe's leadership; the team didn't do better because of a combination of the injuries and the fact that it was (other than Kobe) overall a weak roster.

Team USA better bring home gold at the 08' Olympics in Beijing, China.

Kobe is maturing. Emotional Age entering League: 15. Emotional Age today: 20.

Well said AK. I'm just hoping for the best. Cancer is never something ot be taken lightly, the fact that she's a child/baby, and the fact that it's in the eye...makes it all that much more sobering. Wishing the best for Fish and his girl Tatum.

RE: Kobe. I should have clarified my post from last night. It's not that I have anything against him apologizing to Mitch K (after all he did insinuate that the man is second to none in the sucky GM scale...ahem he is), and I also know that he didn't apologize for anything but that...not the trade, not for anything else...BUT I feel like if there's an apology to be made, it should be to the fans. That's it.

Andrew Z,

No, no one else thinks, unless they are pre-disposed to hate Kobe Bryant and, as such, won't respond to anything of reason. Your claims are unproven, unsubstantiated, and illogical. Now, more than ever, would be the opportune time for Kobe's team mates to criticize him. What would they have to lose? And yet, no one has suggested anything that you are conveying. No one.

Andrew Z, in my opinion you have to have something to lead...like a horse to pasture? I'm not sure the team from what we saw in the second half of the season has got it. And that's where not only the talent comes into question, but also heart.

Glad to hear Kobe concentrating on team USA. We got smashed and its time to get ours back. If Kobe can help place us back in the gold, its a good thing for him and USA basketball. Anyone know who's coaching USA this time out? (same squad/same coaches???)

Lake show,

yeah I actually lived in Santa Ana for quite a while and have spent plenty of time in Garden Grove, Orange, Tustin and the like. My Grandmother lives in Buena Park. My point is still that I would not call any of those areas "hood" in the true sense of the word. Not to mention that Vanessa went to school in Huntington Beach. I just find the characterization of her as a "hood chick" humorous.

The Lake-Show,

Kobe's wife was from (I believe) Huntington Beach. Doesn't really scream "hood" to me. Maybe she lived close to the Fountain Valley border, and in that case, I can see where the "hood chick" might come from. Those Fountain Valleyians are ruthless.

Chris F.

your right none of what's mentioned so far is the "Hood" V. Bryant may have some "hood" qualities and speak the part but your right in saying that its a far cry from her being from Compton or Watts.

Kobe will show Team USA how to win in Vegas this August. Next to Jerry West, the best GM he's had is Jerry Colangelo for putting this summer's team together.

Troy,

How could Shaq's wife have his illegitimate children????

Secondly, why dont you take Shaq's comments in jest??? Sure he shouldnt say things about sleeping with women, but unless you live in a monestary, or something, than Im sure at some point you made a dumb chauvenistic comment. And about Tim Duncan and Brad Miller, was he supposed to go and give them a hug or what? The Spurs and Kings used to be like our arch rivals in case you dont remember?? I'm glad shaq picked on those other guys.

But you rather defend Kobe who calls out HIS TEAM. Kobe's arch rivals are andrew bynum, jerry buss and mitch kupchek.

ridiculous

About the Kobe apology. At first I was relieved he did it. But now I wish he didn't. His press conference was vague and he didn't really say exactly what was said. And so now the haters think everything he did was wrong and now Kobe is sulking back with his tail between his legs. After the Lakers front office was shady and just plain sucked as an organization....it's Kobe that apologizes and in the eyes of Kobe haters and the media, the organization is justified. Completely ridiculous.

AK, thanks for writing this thread. I can hardly even look at blogs or flip on sports radio anymore cuz of all the hatred on Kobe. Then all these weird comments about Fisher and THEN SOMEHOW these haters somehow change the story to Fisher not ever wanting to play with Kobe. I haven't been this frustrated since the Kobe/Shaq feud days. I agree, lets not try to find a conspiracy in every damn thing and Kobe isn't some evil genius that is somehow involved in everything bad that happens in the world.

Vanessa went to University High in Irvine.

As a UCI alum, I can assure you that this means she was firmly installed amongst the button-down middle and upper middle classes exclusively. If Irvine were a car, it would be new, nicely equipped Volvo station wagon. It has no street cred, no funkiness, and is as far from the hood as one can plausibly get.

AK:

"If Fisher is willing to even play for the Knicks, shouldn't that prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the team in question is secondary?"

Apropos of the imminent Wimbledon finals, allow me to say: "Game, Set and Match, Mr. Kamenetzky."

Just in On hoopshype.com

"Ron Artest: The Kings will move Ron-Ron, the question becomes where? The Magic are supposedly talking Hedo Turkoglu for Ron while the Lakers are supposedly talking Kwame Brown’s ending deal for Ron. There are suitors willing to entertain Ron Artest, it seems it’s just a matter of when, not if."

The Lakers will get D-Fish for sure. Now it's time to persue Ron ROn....
Why won't the Kings entertain a deal involving Kwame, Cookie and Farmar or Jarvis C... They will most likely deal Bibby, plus with our trade they can get rid of Shareef's contract plus get a 10M expiring contract in Kwame for the upcoming freeagency for next year....King's owners the Maloofs are business man, they know what's best for the team the offer from the Lakers is the best on the table, that is if Kupcake makes this offer.... Come on Kupcake already this is the best deal without blowing up the team.. We still get to keep big Lazy (I hear is been working out, so maybe Kobe was right to light a fire under him in a direct kind of way)... If we can get Maglore for half of the MLE plus the other half for Fisher....Look at this line-up

Fish/Farmar or Jarvis
Kobe/Mo Evans
Artest/Luke/Vrad
Odom/Turiaf/Vrad
Maglore/Bynum

The starting line-up will be defensive specialists, and the bench will be our last years starters not inclduing LO and Kobe.... This is what we need a defesive upgrade in our 1,3 and 5 position and also have a legitimant 2 option in RON RON... BUSS GET IT DONE

This is the easies fix we can do, all it takes is a little bit of convincing to the Kings of what a great deal it would be for them as well, highly doubt Kupcake can get it done though......

D-Fish left a lot of money on the table with no guarantee that he'd be able to replace it. I'm sure if things were different, he'd retire right now and focus solely on his daughter's health. However, he still has to pay those doctors' bills, regardless of his desires or how good his insurance might be - treatment for rare cancer is almost a sure way to bankruptcy. Also, specialty oncologists aren't found by just picking up the yellow pages; Fisher's going to get the best one he can afford, and they're usually in very specific locations. If he chooses NY or Boston, my guess is he'll be available to most of the Northeastern teams at a reasonable price; for obvious reasons, he won't be playing in the Western Conference.

Also, can we stop the rumors that D-Fish called Kobe the 'GM'? That was definitely Chucky Atkins. I read a profile about him last year (not sure where), and it talked about how close he came to re-signing with the Lakers instead of going to Golden State. The Lakers FO basically said that if he could get a really good deal, they wouldn't blame him for leaving. He made a verbal committment to GS and then he got a call from Kobe asking him to stay (he'd even worked on getting the FO to open up the coffers for him). Fisher almost stayed, but in the end, he felt he couldn't break his word to the Warriors. Now, that's class. Fish also spoke very highly of Kobe in the article, and I would imagine that if circumstances were different, he'd love to be a Laker again.

http://celtics.bostonherald.com/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1009905

The Celts also are said to be looking at point guards, and 30-year-old Theo Papaloukas could step over from Greece and help (the Lakers are said to be pursuing him). Derek Fisher could also fit that role. Granted his release by the Jazz, he’s looking at playing sites where his cancer-stricken daughter could get good care (hello, Boston).

And as crazy as it may seem, the Celts may still be leaving the porch light on for Kevin Garnett. There appears to be no chance Ainge will sleep until he sees the Timberwolves star in another uniform

KL:

"What about all the NBA guys drooling to play with the “greatest basketball player in the history of the NBA”?

That doesn't even make sense given what we know about the business of the NBA. How much top-level talent did Jordan attract to the Bulls? Even Magic, by consensus one of the players EVERY scorer would have liked to play alongside, attracted comparatively little top outside talent. Bob McAdoo comes to mind. That's about it.

You wouldn't diminish Michael and Magic on the same grounds, would you?

Kobe Apologist,

If anything, Kobe was too mature for his age, which is why he and Shaq didn't get along. While Shaq and his homeys were running after women and hitting the clubs (typical of most young NBA athleles), Kobe was perfecting his game and hanging out in his hotel room. This is how he get the rep of being standoffish.

ISH happens..And NOBODY, I mean NOBODY is perfect. I don't think its big news that KOBE apologized, that was the most intelligent thing to do from a professional and personal standpoint..Now if people could simply move on! That is why I hate the offseason, nothing goes on and people find something to run away with...

As for FISH, if he comes back, all well & good, right now the most important thing is the health of his daughter....Wishing him nothin but love on that!

Go Lakers, 2007-2008! I am waiting for you....

I'd rather have Mihm than Magloire. Theres a reason that he has been passed by Joel Prizbilla, Lamarcus aldrdige, channing frye, raef lafrentyz and of course greg oden on the Blazers's future plans.

Magloire is ssssssssssslllllllooooooooow footed, and his defense isnt what it used to be. I think Laker fans are caught up on Magloire of like three years ago. I think it would be a huge mistake to get Magloire. We already have Kwame, who is probably a better player.

"I think it would be a huge mistake to get Magloire. We already have Kwame, who is probably a better player."

Maglore average the same amount of rebounds and points and blocks more shots in 25Min of play than Kwame , Now at 2M veterans min.... That's like getting a Kwame ( maybe better) for 1.8M a year... What games have you been watching by the way

Taliq

relax i was just pokin fun at the situation. i posted some trash about Kobe on here while all that mess was going on because i am a laker fan first, 2nd kobe. lighten up. the guy is doing damage control now that the storm has weathered a bit. im not saying it was a good or bad thing that he apologized. however you feel about the whole situation really doesnt matter. what he did was detrimental to what management was trying to do and thats what pissed me off about him. regardless, im not one of these people here who will bring up every dirt on Kobe.

MESSAGE TO THA SHOW, FAKERZ AND THE D

THA SHOW

“it's kind of like football, you run the ball to set up the pass. you get that defense to bring up some help from the secondary to stop the run, and the passing game is wide open. i likened shaq's game to the running game, and kobe's to the passing game. damn i miss having that duo. damn!!!!!!!!!!!”

man aint that the truth. too bad, cuz I really believe that kobe could have been the greatest ever had he played his cards right…..but we all know legends are made in the finals……..not fair, but it’s the truth.

“that series is one of kobe's mistakes that was hard to overlook.”

there’s side of me which hopes kobe can learn a little humility and realize that it’s not too late, but the antics have got to stop. I’ll respect the man more if he just straight up said “I’m sorry to the fans, Mitch, Dr. Buss and my teammates”. I don’t care is he’s being a faker either, just own up to it. BTW, the clip of kobe at his summer camp wasn’t a apology, it was an explanation and a blow off of what happened. I believe it’s called “playing if off”.

“MY NUMBER ONE CHOICE FOR FREE AGENT SIGNING (MLE): DESMOND MASON”

Mason would be a good complementary fit.

FAKERZ

“If you [lakertomtom]wish to start your own "You can ONLY be a Lakers fan if you worship Kobe" blog, go ahead; no one is stopping you. You will find many readers and contributors, I'm sure. Many others have drank the Kool-Aid.”

you know, that’s my main problem with LakerTomGirl. The dude comes to the pew and lectures us “hater” on how we’re scum, but then doesn’t say a damn thing about all the crap from the other extremists. guys calling names like “hater”, “moron”, “idiot”. LakerTomGurl is a wuss who thinks his poop don’t smell.

THE D

“That doesn't even make sense given what we know about the business of the NBA.”

when I say guys of stature, I mean the “Grant Hill’s” of the world. I don’t necessarily mean the “KG”. Check out Horace Grant and Brian Shaw following Shaq to LA. How about Payton and Malone joining LA in 2004? That’s what I’m talking about. It’s like Jalen Rose preferring to sit on the pine rather than be Aaron McOld on the Lakers. That’s what I mean.

“You wouldn't diminish Michael and Magic on the same grounds, would you?”

I would never diminish Jordan or Magic. Hey, I’ll even say if kobe can prove that he can lead as the #1, I’ll even begrudgingly give kobe credit as one the all-time greats. we have 3-5 more years to see if kobe can do it.

WRT Vanessa being a "hood chick"

Kobe started dating Vanessa when she was attending my alma mater high
school, Marina High School in Huntington Beach. Not even close to the
hood. The range of neighborhoods of families whose kids go to Marina are
from upper-middle-class to very rich (Ever hear of Huntington Harbor?).

There is a slightly less affluent section of Huntington Beach, but if she'd
have lived there, then she would have gone to Ocean View High School.

repost

MESSAGE FOR NEMAIA, KOBE APOLOGIST AND RJANEEL/PETE MAGUIRE

NEMAIA FALETOGO

“I may be wrong KL, but at times some of your comments border on hypocritical.”

you might be 100% correct. I’ve apologized in the past when called out.

“mentioned in some of your past posts that you liked Kobe prior to Shaq being traded(not sure if you meant Kobe the person or Kobe the baller).”

I don’t really like any of these guys (NBA players) because I don’t know them personally. When I say “like”, I’m referring to appreciating the person’s ability individually and collectively on a team.

“While I believe that Kobe by his silence spoke volumes leading to Shaq being traded, I also believe that the front office and Shaq are to blame as well.”

This blog has educated me on Shaq’s role and I’ve conceded that shaq was acting like an a$$ leading up to the trade. I still hold firm on my belief that kobe was trying to get rid of shaq any way he can, either by shaq leaving or kobe leaving. Why? I have no idea, but I suspect kobe was being selfish and was more concerned about his legacy rather than winning. just my take.

“As far free agents or players of stature coming to the Lakers, it remains to be seen.”

I’m ready to eat crow when a “KG” comes to town voluntarily. I’ve been in a professional environment long enough to know that once a person is labels as the proverbial “bad apple” (in reference to your adam and eve comment), it detracts other talents from joining the cause because the risk is greater than the reward. just my take.

“I respect your opinions and in no way am I calling you a hypocrite, just that some of your opinions seem to have apparent contradictions or perhaps you meant something else.”

I actually don’t mind being called out. all that I ask is tell me why I’m being called out which you always do which is why I extend you politeness and courtesy on this blog.

“Thanks for your time and some of your thought provoking posts. Nuff said, Hulk smash!!!”

likewise. you take care.

KOBE APOLOGIST

“Kobe is not as great as he thinks he is. He is greater. Go Kobes!”

Kobe apologist=anti-KL
KL=Anti-Kobe Apologist

i'll give you credit for being firm with your beliefs, i gotta respect that.

RJaneel/Pete Maguire

“OK - I have to figure out where to put the names in the code you wrote for the blacklist. My email is very easily accessed, I include it with every post. Just hit my name and it will send you to it! Now there is some efficient code. The list is growing and I will be more than appreciative of the blacklist - thanks.”

All I’ll do is start putting numbers and symbols after my screenname to circumvent your program. did you figure that smarty pants?

sincerely, KLBeast1!

lake show:

1) illegitimate children = children born outside of marriage. Shaq had plenty of kids with his currently wife before they were married.

2) Shaq seemed pretty serious about me. Don't think he was jesting. But if he was, I'll gladly take everything he did as a jest if you take everything Kobe did as a jest.

"when I say guys of stature, I mean the 'Grant Hill’s' of the world."

Since when was Grant Hill a guy of stature? Maybe from the ankles up, sure. Also, the guy is coattailing on a contender; one that he think can get him a ring, which is exactly what he said he was going to do. Are the Lakers as much of a sure thing as the Suns? Of course not.

KL:

Also... why on earth do you feel the need to repost all those reponses over and over and over? Same with gunner. It's pretty pointless and certainly doesn't help your case.

Taliq,

GOOD LOOKIN OUT MY DUDE!!!!! I LOVED THAT ARTICLE!!!!! Darth Kobe is gonna destroy any player in his way, and the only one that can stop him is him. LeBron is good, Melo is a monster, and Wade is gonna be great, but Kobe will simply stomp on all of them on his way to be the greatest!!!!

KL- Dont you find it interesting Kobe is concentrating now on getting ready for the US Championships instead of fixing the mess he helped create with his antics with the front office and teammates?

It might be my anti-kobe take but that strikes me as totally selfish.

KL,

"cuz I really believe that kobe could have been the greatest ever had he played his cards right…..but we all know legends are made in the finals……..not fair, but it’s the truth."

see, i guess you really are misunderstood. your dislike of kobe is from actual events, not necessarily speculation. however, you still put that dislike aside to admit kobe could have been the greatest were it not for that ridiculous ego he happens to have. as for legends being made in the finals, true. and kobe has cemented himself as a legend with his solid, clutch performances versus the pacers, sixers and nets. no doubt. the strange part about losing to the pistons in the finals is that KOBE ALREADY KNEW WHAT WORKED IN ORDER TO WIN A TITLE. yet he totally strayed from the formula that brought the lakers a three peat. and that is almost unforgivable, really. it's one thing to lose because you don't know what it takes to win, IT'S ANOTHER TO LOSE WHEN YOU KNOW WHAT IS NECESSARY TO WIN. the finals versus the pistons was going to be shaq's swan song as the dominant player on the lakers. the reigns were gonna be kobe's. but instead of waiting for those reigns to be passed to him, kobe just took them. and we haven't even sniffed a title since. the truth hurts sometimes...

"there’s side of me which hopes kobe can learn a little humility and realize that it’s not too late, but the antics have got to stop. I’ll respect the man more if he just straight up said “I’m sorry to the fans, Mitch, Dr. Buss and my teammates”. I don’t care is he’s being a faker either, just own up to it. BTW, the clip of kobe at his summer camp wasn’t a apology, it was an explanation and a blow off of what happened. I believe it’s called “playing if off”."

i agree. not sure if kobe will ever learn what humility. except for cheating on his wife, kobe really hasn't owned up to any of his mistakes on or off the court. so to expect kobe to come out with a legit apology might be wishful thinking. i totally think kobe's comments were simply trying to downplay the situation, not really a sincere apology. however, it is finally a move in a positive direction from kobe. kobe knows he dug himself & the lakers into a deeper hole with those comments.

"Mason would be a good complementary fit."

i mean everybody was getting hot and bothered about creaky ankled grant hill. desmond mason's game is comparable, and he is much younger and can be had for the MLE.

having kobe and mason as our starting guards is a big time improvement. they are both tall guards which the triangle prefers, and mason gives us more athleticism on both ends of the floor.

then again, what makes sense usually does not happen these days in laker land.

peace.

MESSAGE FOR TALIQ, TROY, HAL9000, PETE, KOBE'S TOILET

taliq,
"You're like it was wrong for kobe to say all those things. He says he gave an apology and your reaction is, oh that was for sports center."

No buddy, that logic is straight and simple. Kobiatch knows now that no other team wants him. Chicago, New York, Phoenix. Big Fat No! So, let me
try take the blame and the embarrassment off myself by going back on Sportscenter and saying I'm sorry. This guy is so predictable.

troy,
"Kobe haters, why don't you share your judgmental sentiments with a more deserving ex-Laker"

You're 100% right. Ex-lakers. that's what Kobiatch should be too!

hal9000
"“Hello? Anybody home? KG sought Kobe out to talk to him. He wouldn't have done that if he wasn't interested in joining Kobe on the Lakers. 'Nuff said.”

Nope, he sought kobe to tell the F U! on coming to LA!

Kobe Apologist
"Kobe is maturing. Emotional Age entering League: 15. Emotional Age today: 20."

Here's that sound. that's the sound of the toilet going, "Flush!"

troy,
"If anything, Kobe was too mature for his age, which is why he and Shaq didn't get along."

Another ASS sumption by good ole troy!

RJaneel/Pete Maguire

“OK - I have to figure out where to put the names in the code you wrote for the blacklist. My email is very easily accessed, I include it with every post. Just hit my name and it will send you to it! Now there is some efficient code. The list is growing and I will be more than appreciative of the blacklist - thanks.”

If you can't stand the heat, go put your head in a hole. I guess us Haters have won since we got you building gadgets to try and hide your insecurities from the blog. I like the strategy. Being incogneto!

troy,
"While Shaq and his homeys were running after women and hitting the clubs (typical of most young NBA athleles), Kobe was perfecting his game and hanging out in his hotel room

YOU GOT TO STOP READING THOSE GOSSIP MAGAZINE. TROY YOU'RE SO FUNNY!

Andrew Z - "Those Fountain Valleyians are ruthless."

I believe the proper term is "Fountain Vallenistas"

Long Time - you're right. My apologies - it was Marina and not Uni. I got my grapevine twisted on that one. Some of those Huntington Harbor folks are comically wealthy.

Maybe Kobe was calling Vanessa a "hood chick" the same way one calls a bald guy "Curly?" That said, I grew up in a gratingly snooty area near Pasadena and can recall the tendency of spoiled kids to "slum." Yearning for gratuitous street cred is like a rite of passage in some parts of SoCal.

sixonezero,

"what he did was detrimental to what management was trying to do and thats what pissed me off about him"

You hit the nail on the head buddy. I don't think management has done a great job the past couple of years, so why would I shed over anything that sabotages their efforts. Just can't see myself going, "oh my god now jim and mitch won't be able to bring the next aaron mckie or shammond williams to this squad"

What's with the Artest to NY rumor? That guy's crazy; giant rampaging monkey crazy. Hasn't anyone seen King Kong?

All I want for christmas is ...

For the kobe to have a better supporting cast be it in a laker uniform or some other uniform. And frankly speaking nothing has changed in the makeup of the team so I'll be dissapointed if he backs down on his request and doesn't make this very painful for the lakers. Spare the rod and spoil the child is what momz used to say.

But hey, maybe the verdict is that he threw his tantrum too early. Maybe he makes peace and accepts the status quo. Maybe an injury free laker squad can make some major noise next season. Maybe they can't and kobe waits patiently for 2009 to opt out of his contract.

Maybe the lakers suck in 2009, and maybe kobe stays on with the team out of loyalty that many here have clamored for. If that happens, that'd be the end of the road for me. I'd most certainly jump off the kobe band waggon at that point. I'd still be a fan but I'd mostly just shake my head at what a terrible waste of talent and most of all, what a shame the dude never had the b*lls to pursue his dream of being the best.

Maybe there's some new kid on the block that shows the swagger of the old kobe at that point, maybe he's in a envinroment where he gets the support needed to achieve his goals. Maybe I notice the kobe swagger in him and hop on his bandwaggon. Maybe as I watch him destroy Jordan's records I won't find it depressing that kobe never got to set a higher bar for this kid to break.

For now though I'm still holding on to my dream of kobe winning 5 more championships. Maybe four of them are with the knicks or bulls. And maybe he returns to LA wearing a number 8 jersey and we watch an old legend assist a Bynum led squad to their first championship. Maybe number 8 retires at that point with his 8th ring. Maybe I'll be courtside at staples to witness his last game.

A whole bunch of maybe's but that's what makes it one hell of a roller coaster ride. I'm that same dude that was rooting for an old jordan to perform his greatest magic trick in a wizards uniform and come out of the east to face his old mentor Phil. Yup yup, I'm a dreamer.

May we live in interesting times.

Kobe's apology to Kupcake regarding the Kobe video and "how it came out" was an eye-opener. His apology confirms that his anger and frustration was not directed at Kupcake, but mainly directed at Jim Buss (insider). In the video, Kobe was angry that the Jason Kidd trade got nixed to hold on to Bynum. Now we know that this was not Kupcake's decision. Not only did Kobe apologize to Kupcake, he publicly announced it. Is it any wonder that Kobe's initial statement in this ordeal stressed that he wanted Jerry West back with FULL AUTHORITY? Many people assumed his statement was a direct knock on our GM Kupcake, but Kobe is clarifying to the world that he blames the puppet master (Jim), not the puppet (Kup).

-continued-
At first, I thought this was a battle between Kobe & Phil versus Jim Buss, with Jerry as the referee and judge. Now, I realize this battle is really Kobe, Phil AND Kupcake versus Jim Buss. Jerry Buss has a difficult decision in his hands. He has to decide between the future of the Laker franchise versus his son.

Long time Laker fan and the rest of y'all,

On the subject of kobe''s wife not being hood. My reaction is ... umm and so. Anyone that grows up in the hood aka growing up poor tries to get out of that situation and their glad if and when that happens.

Point being if kobe's wife has any common sense, she should be glad she ain't grow up in the hood. And if y'all had any, the only discussions about the hood should be centered around how y'all can volunteer to help folks in such situations help themselves.

Damn I miss mamba24 ... who's here to back me now?

Pincus: Troy Hudson an Expiring Contract?

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_22620.shtml

The Three Faces Of Kobe

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ordine/blog/2007/07/the_three_faces_of_kobe.html

Kobe: Sorry, Mitch

http://www.dailynews.com/lakers/ci_6309507

Troy - I believe we were misled by Kobe's early years. What looked like maturity was really just focus. As a rookie, emotionally, he was like a very determined, ambitious 15 year old, where he stayed for a while, until he started to think he knew everything, much like a 16 or 17 year old, which leads to the rape/no-rape incident. Going through that crisis brought him up to 18. The post Shaq years are just bringing him to the mind set of a 21 year old. I really think his emotional maturity was stunted by so much success so early. He never had any obstacles. He never had to get along with anyone. He never had to face his own limitations. If he had failed earlier, he might be over these growing pains by now. But the great thing about Kobe is, he's smart, and he learns. You can see it in his development in how he talks, what he says he wants to be. Sometimes he does sound like a teenager. Emotional growth doesn't happen overnight. But as long as he has Phil to guide him, and as long as he truly wants to win championships, he will find out what it takes to lead a team. And it will happen quicker and quicker as he goes through these obstacles. I believe the experiences of the past few years of losing, of learning what his limits are will only make him a better player. Who knows, by next season his emotional age might match his actual age!

Great take on the Lakers' current situation

http://www.forumblueandgold.com/

http://eurobasket.com/events/eluleb/06-07/eurol.asp

Papaloukas in CSKA Moscow for another 3 years!!

by Chris Mammides - Jul 6, 2007
The most high paid European player will be continuing his career in the CSKA Moscow untill June 2010! Theodoros Papaloukas (200-G-77, agency: Interperformances) became officially the most expencive player (European) with the new contract of 3 million euros (net) per year for the next three years who will be wearing the Russian jersey of CSKA.

KLBeast,

"I’m ready to eat crow when a “KG” comes to town voluntarily" ....

Dude if what you're saying is KG won't play for the lakers cuz Kobe is here then dude blame the laker FO and not Kobe. Last time I checked, Kobe didn't want to be here either.

On da real though, this is a wack argument for you to be throwing around. Cuz if you're being real or applying any measure of thought to the situation then you'd realise the real issue is the timberwolves asking price. Currently they want Amare and unless their price drops, the lakers don't have anything to offer that'd top that, besides kobe whom they dont want to trade.

trading Kwame str8 up for Ron Ron, that leaves us with Bynum in the middle with a questionable Mhim (if re-signed), and the rookie. That might not be the route to go, unless Mitch has something else in the wings.

AK/BK,

What's going on, the blog has grinded to a halt. I'm talking to myself here yo.

KLBeast's comments are still blocked even though he tried to defeat the script by changing his ID to KLBeast1!

Fisher has options but will take time deciding

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,680196803,00.html

Magic GM: We want Milicic

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070706/SPORTS/707060348/1002/SPORTS

D fish will not be playing for the knicks. They do not have any spots on their roster. I think they already have 17 players under under contract

The BIG story of the day:

PARIS (AP) -- Stretch limo for her; minivan for him -- and a romantic Paris wedding for both. Professional basketball star Tony Parker married "Desperate Housewives" star Eva Longoria at a civil ceremony in Paris on Friday -- a prelude to their expected star-studded weekend wedding bash at a lavish and storied chateau.

Paris Mayor Bertrand Delanoe officiated and gave a speech saying how happy he was that they were married in the City of Light, said the mayor of Paris' 4th District, Dominique Bertinotti.

Parker, the 25-year-old San Antonio Spurs star who was born in Belgium and grew up playing basketball in France, arrived in a gray minivan, wearing a dark suit. He went straight in without waving. French soccer star Thierry Henry was in his group.

They were thought to be planning a second wedding ceremony Saturday at a Paris church that used to serve French royals. Then, they and their guests were to party at Vaux-le-Vicomte, a 17th century chateau 34 miles southeast of Paris.

In an interview with Le Parisien published Friday, Parker said he was eager to have kids. "That would be even better than my NBA titles, even if I don't compare private life and sports," he told the newspaper. "Eva talks to me about it all the time. I'd like to have girls, because I come from a world of boys."

He also said he considers himself "the luckiest guy in the world."

sixonezero

"what he did was detrimental to what management was trying to do and thats what pissed me off about him. regardless, im not one of these people here who will bring up every dirt on Kobe."

What management was trying to do was to stick with this same mediocre team.

If the losers wants that team, go ahead, transfer your affects to the Clippers.
Truly Lakers fans want to win right now.
Pseudo Lakers fans want the team to do bad, so they can enjoy Kobe problems.

Gino,
I like your Ron Ron offer. I still think, in any deal with Sac the Lakers would have to help the Kings get out from under a bad contract of Kenny Thomas or S. Abdur-Rahim. Those aren't bad players, just not the type of contracts you want hanging around while you're trying to rebuild.
That said, I don't think Lakers mgt is doing anything until they KNOW either KG is off the table, or he is submitting his Change of Address forms with the Post Office.
It will be interesting to see how long the Lakers sit idle waiting for McHale, Waiting to ExHale...(vomit, that was cheesy)
Hopefully there are some quality moves still available when the Lakers decide to get off the pot.

Shaq called all LA Fans:

Idiots and stupids.

That include KL, fakerz and Gunner?

Daddy Shaq:

"Yo quiero Shacko bell."

Go ahead Kobe.

You are the most popular player in the NBA.

The shackos, lebrones, wades, arenas are just Fakerz.

LA FANS MANIFESTO

We, LA fans are tired of three characters who talk trash about us.

1...Shaq....called us idiots and ignorants because we were happy to see him go, after playing here out of shape, and refusing to play hard.

2...Bill Plascke from LA Times, always talking trash about us because we refuse to believe his lunatic assesment and conclusions.

3...Kobe haters, because they are fascists, looking for linching Kobe at all cost

If this was about business, about doing a good job.

Kobe has beef. And he did it in a bad manner. But he does have a beef.

Can you name the one good decision that Mich Kupchak has done?
Please start writing.

If Mich was running my business I would be broke.

Getting rid of Horry and Fisher. Now he wants them back?
Trading Shaq.
Trading Butler for Kwame.
signing Vujavic, Valde, Vlade, Cook, smush, Mckie. How many can you count?
Drafting Sun Jue and Gastol.

The list is endless.

I know the Buss's love Kupchak for some reason.

But for the sake of reason, or look at the results. It was not Kobe. He has a beef.

Get a GM who loves basketball and eats and sleeps basketball. Like a Jerry West type.
Who won't give in.
Who knows who are the best players. West did.
Kupchak.
You decide.

Please list Kupchak's track record and tell me that it is good or even average.

PhxLkrFan
What a great artilce... Something honelstly I've been preaching all along, we need not only to get a 2nd star player also we need to look at the roll players we have

mavs vs sonics tonight at 9pm summer league... nba tv
get to see durant and jeff green of sonics.

tomorrow at 10 am china team (Sunyue and Yi), vs memphis
12noon, portland (oden,aldridge) vs

Since Kings are looking at trading Bibby & Artest....

here's an idea...just an idea....

Trade: Chris Mihm, Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Jordan Farmar

For Mike Bibby & Artest

Los Angeles Lakers Incoming: Mike Bibby & Artest

Sacramento Kings Incoming: S&T Chris Mihm,(Exp) Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Young PG Jordan Farmar.

Lakers New Line Up:

Bibby/Crittenton/Sasha
Kobe/Evans
Artest/Radmanovic
Odom/Turiaf/Cook
Bynum/MLE

What do you guys think??

Miguel

MESSAGE FOR FIREFOX, TROY, JOREMA, MITCHELL, CAMRON, LAKER LOVER

FireFox
"KLBeast's comments are still blocked even though he tried to defeat the script by changing his ID to KLBeast1! "

it wasn't blocked because if it was, you wouldn't be commenting on it. Ha Ha

Jorema,
"Kobe haters, because they are fascists, looking for linching Kobe at all cost "

John Black has nothing on you. Still working that PR job. Hey, i would hire you if i need a publicist. Good job Kobiatch for hiring Jorema at your publicist. Well done.

Camron,
"D fish will not be playing for the knicks. They do not have any spots on their roster. I think they already have 17 players under under contract"

He will be playing in cleveland.

mitchel - Kobe's agent
"Kobe's apology to Kupcake regarding the Kobe video and "how it came out" was an eye-opener. His apology confirms that his anger and frustration was not directed at Kupcake, but mainly directed at Jim Buss (insider). "

I'm assuming Kobiatch told you that. If not, that's hearsay. No validity whatsoever!

Laker Lover
"KL- Dont you find it interesting Kobe is concentrating now on getting ready for the US Championships instead of fixing the mess he helped create with his antics with the front office and teammates? "

Exactly. You see I use to call you out but you seem to now be bias towards that side. But if you know ole Kobiatch you know every thing that comes out his mouth and the other side is build around S-E-L-F-I-S-H

TROY
"1) illegitimate children = children born outside of marriage. Shaq had plenty of kids with his currently wife before they were married."

You're the boy who cried wolf. First, you say the haters concentrate too much on Kobiatch personal life and now you're talking about Shaq's personal life. Should i call you a "hater"?

Ok here is a 3 way trade that abseloutely makes sence for all teams invloved...

Minnesota has reapetadly asked for young players with potential as well as expiring contracts for Kevin Garnett... They like the Lakers deal without Odom ( check hoopworld as well as hoopshype.com for info)... The Lakers need to look at a 3 team to get a deal done... But hod do you find that 3rd team who's willing to take what you have.... Here is the deal

Chicago Bulls....

Trade Lamar Odom, Mo Evans as well as sign and trade Mimm for P.j. Brown(singn and trade) , Thabo Sefelosha, Chris Duhon and Noah

Why would Chicago do this deal... Becuase they lack dribble penetration player as well as a PF to play along side Ben Wallace... And a combination of Ben Wallace, Lamar Odom and Luol Deng is a sure bet to win the east or at least contend next year....Plus they get Mimm as a back up center as well as Mo Evans to offset the Thabo deal... Chicago will have a win win sitatuion, becuase they don't lose anyone of their core and they still get to aquire LO....

The Lakers will have the pieces necessary to get a KG deal... ( Note; that both Brewer and Noah were teammates and they would love to be on the same team), add Andrew Bynum and our 19th pick to go along with the expiring contracts of Kwame Brown and Sasha V.) This will be a win win for the Wolves as well... They get a Bynum ( many regarded him as being the 3rd pick if he were in this years draft), they also get Noah the 9th pick also the 19th pick to go along with Kwame Brown and Sasha (also a young player with cheap money) expiring contracts....

The Wolves will be 11.5 Million under the cap for fallowing year, they will also have Bynum, Noha, Brewer, Warrick, Foye , Smith and Jarvis C..Plus they would have the cap space to get a legitmate palyer after next season....

The Lakers get KG, Thabo, P.J Brown and Chris Duhon
Hopefully if they can sign both Fish and Maglore for MLE ( that.s if they split the MLE)... You've got youself a very deep team to go along with veteran roll players as well as a young core in Farmar and Turiaf.....

Line up

Fish/Duhon/Farmar
Kobe/Thabo
Luke/Vrad/Thabo
Garnett/Turiaf/Vrad
P.J Brown/Malgore/Turiaf

This is a championshipp line-up and it's not going to take a whole lot to make this work.....

Now on the negative side Lamar has two years remaining on this contract and the Bulls have to sign Gordon as well as Deng after next season.... They would have the right to sign them for max do to the Birds right, but that would hamper there payroll significantly... But you've only got one year to pay that significant luxury plus when you can take Lamar Odom and not give up so much why not...plus you would defenitely add another huge chip to your already talented team in case you need to pull off major trades.......

Oh we can only do so much... I really wonder if Kupcake is taking notes

Sources: Billups, Pistons agree to multi-year deal

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2928321

Report: Nocioni to return with Bulls

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Am2iDziTiskbTIzGGTC119aLvLYF?slug=txbullsnocioni&prov=st&type=lgns

Stackhouse agrees to stay with Mavericks

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-mavericks-stackhouse&prov=ap&type=lgns

Building A Champion
July 6th, 2007
All the talk in Lakerland, and on this blog, whether it be about trades or free agents, is ultimately about building a champion. Commenter Reed sent along a detailed look at both what is the makeup of championship teams — and how the Lakers look compared to that. I pass along his very good and detailed thoughts.

All signs point to the Lakers attempting to placate Kobe by building an immediate contender. What exactly would this take? Looking back over the championship teams of this decade (Spurs, Heat, Pistons, Lakers) and even beyond that (Bulls, Rockets, Celtics), I believe it is essentially a two-step process: (1 Find 2-3 “stars” whose talents compliment each other, and; 2) Fill out the rotation with veteran role players who understand the nuances of the game, play defense, and whose skills supplement the stars. This seems obvious at first glance, but I think we (and several GM’s) overlook some of what it entails when analyzing roster moves.

To illustrate, listed below are the rotation players for the title teams of this decade. Some teams employed deeper rotations than others (rotation players are those consistently getting non-garbage minutes). In the parentheses I note: 1) the number of years that player has been in the league, and; 2) the age of the player — both at the time the title was won. The data on the three Lakers teams includes the principal role players from all three teams.

Looking at these rosters, a couple common themes emerge:

1. Championship Teams Need 2-3 Stars that Compliment Each Other

We all know that it takes at least two legitimate, all-star players to build a contending team. What is often missed is that between them, these stars need to cover certain basketball skills at a high level and avoid serious redundancies. For example, the 2007 Spurs had three stars: Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili. Between them, those three players excelled at every important basketball skill: post offense (Duncan), interior defense and rebounding (Duncan), playmaking (Parker, Ginobili), penetration (Parker, Ginobili), perimeter shooting (Ginobili), perimeter defense (Ginobili), transition offense (Parker), etc. On all of the decade’s title teams, there have been elite players covering the key aspects of the game, with some teams using a concentrated two-star approach, and others a more distributed three- or four-star model. Listed below are the key basketball skills and the star players from each title team filling that need:

• Interior defense: Duncan, Shaq, the Wallaces
• Post scoring and ability to draw double teams: Duncan, Shaq, Rasheed Wallace
• Playmaker capable of creating own shot and distributing: Parker/Ginobili, Kobe, Wade, Billups/Hamilton
• Perimeter shooting: Ginobili, Wade (a little weak), Kobe, Billups/Rasheed
• Perimeter defense: Ginobili, Wade, Kobe, Billups
• Penetration: Parker, Wade, Kobe, Billups

The previous championship teams of this era followed similar models, with 2-4 stars covering these key attributes: Bulls (Jordan, Pippen, Grant/Rodman), Rockets (Hakeem, Drexler), Lakers (Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Scott), and Celtics (Bird, McHale, Parrish, DJ).

The Lakers, as currently constructed, obviously do not have the requisite core of stars in place. They lack both a true second star, and first rate players that accomplish the various key skills. Kobe covers a great deal of ground by himself: perimeter scoring, playmaking, penetration, perimeter defense, and even post scoring. But the second star, Odom, is fairly redundant to Kobe. His main contributions cross over with Kobe’s: penetration and playmaking. He does fill a needed rebounding void, but he is not a skilled perimeter shooter and provides little true interior defense. Jermaine O’Neal and Kevin Garnett would be far, far better second stars. Not only because they are more talented than Odom (only mildly so with O’Neal), but because they better compliment Kobe by doing things he can’t do — namely, interior defense and post scoring.

2.The Role Players Must be Polished Veterans

The main point of this post is to recognize the types of role players that every championship team utilizes to compliment the core of stars. The lion’s share of our discussion has centered on which star to pursue and what price to pay. However, this overlooks the second, but equally as critical, step in building a title team — finding the right veteran role players. The Fisher story and Kurt’s post made us begin to think about what type of role players the Lakers need. I want to go a few steps further. For purposes of this post, I want to examine what role players we should pursue if we can bring in a better second star to compliment Kobe (Garnett or O’Neal). This puts the cart before the horse a little, but I think it is reasonable to assume the Lakers will attempt to placate Kobe by adding a bigger name.

Look back at the list of rotation players from this decade’s title teams, paying particular attention to the experience and age of the role players. What sticks out?

These players are OLD.

The vast majority of them are in their 30’s. They are savvy, polished, wise veterans who understand the nuances of the game. They are not high upside, uber-athletic, teenagers. In fact, most of the players are well on their way down physically.

Interesting observations from the role players on these eight title teams:

• Role players (non-“stars”) under 28 years old: 2007 Spurs (1); 2006 Heat (1); 2005 Spurs (0); 2004 Pistons (1); 2003 Spurs (1); 2000-2002 Lakers (2); Total: 6 out of 32 players.
• Role players over 30 years old: 2007 Spurs (6); 2006 Heat (3); 2005 Spurs (3); 2004 Pistons (3); 2003 Spurs (1); 2000-2002 Lakers (5); Total: 21 out of 32 players.
• Rookie role players: zero from all teams.
• Role players with less than four years experience: 5 out of 32 players.

The overwhelming majority of role players from these teams were over 30 years old and in excess of ten years experience in the league. Players like Horry, Bowen, Finley, Mourning, Fox, Harper, etc. These are players with diminishing athletic ability and low PER’s, but a wealth of experience and knowledge that bring subtle contributions not found in a stat sheet. When placed next to a sufficient core of superstars, these elderly role players are more valuable than their more talented, younger counterparts on other teams. For example, Bruce Bowen — he of the 7.12 PER that screams NDBL — is more valuable to the Spurs than someone like Vince Carter or Rashard Lewis would be. Or, look at it this way — Rick Fox was more valuable to the Lakers than Glen Rice. The flip side: a team made up of such role players, disconnected from the stars, would be simply awful.

What do these aged wonders bring to the table? Why do title teams almost exclusively rely upon them to the exclusion of younger, more talented players? They bring an understanding of the intricacies of the game. They understand proper floor spacing on offense and how to make the extra pass; they make the pass that leads to the assist. They defend the pick and roll. They pick up penetrating guards without fouling. They understand how to set meaningful picks; and how to fight through screens to avoid unnecessary switching and mismatches. They make intelligent cuts and defend the backdoor. They box out and generate offensive tip outs. They understand how to use pump fakes; and how to avoid being tempted by them. They know how to feed the post without picking up the dribble. They stay out of foul trouble and avoid putting the team in the penalty too early. They make open shots and force their opponents to shoot with a hand in the face. They draw charges. They move intelligently without the ball and do not get lost tracking their men through a flurry of screens. They have mastered the concepts of team defense, knowing when to double, when to stay home, and when to sag into the paint. They know when to shoot and when to defer to the superstar. They create perfect spacing on three on one fastbreaks; and are deft at disrupting such attacks. They are not scared of pressure, having been there before. Off the court, they encourage an environment of respect for authority and the coach. They promote unity, good practice habits, and discipline on road trips.

Think back on the glory role players of the Laker title teams. Think about Rick Fox roughing up Peja Stojakovic and cutting to the basket for a pass from Shaq (getting about 2 inches off the ground for an ugly left handed finish). Think about Derek Fisher being perfectly spaced on the perimeter to make an open three pointer after a double team on Shaq or Kobe. Think about Robert Horry frustrating Tim Duncan and Chris Webber with his post defense, despite being physically overmatched. Now, these players were not perfect, of course. They were seriously flawed. But they understood the subtleties of the game, didn’t make mistakes, were calm under pressure, and knew when to get out of Shaq and Kobe’s way. They were consummate role players.

The Current Laker Roster

Where is the current Laker team in this process of building a contender? The Lakers are not positioned to immediately contend. They have neither the right core of stars nor a stable of veteran role players. They are a young, developing, up and coming team. Aside from Kobe, Odom and Walton, their key players are still very raw. Bynum is 19, Kwame 25, Farmar 20, Crittenton 19, Turiaf 24, Radmanovic 26. With Kobe only 28 and Walton and Odom 27, this is not necessarily a bad thing. The team is full of talent, with a dynamic young center, two promising young point guards, two veteran, versatile forwards, and the best player in the league with a few years left in his prime. The team also showed signs of being well ahead of schedule last year, with a 26-13 start (despite missing Odom and Kwame for significant stretches of those early games). With another year or two of growth, especially from Bynum and the point guards, the team might be well positioned to overtake the Western powers as they age (Nash and Duncan are on the wrong side of 30). However, this is likely irrelevant. Kobe refuses to wait; he is convinced his window is fast closing. The fans call for immediate change. Prudent or not, big changes are coming.

The point of this post is that the Lakers are two big steps away from contending. Even if they bring in a Garnett or O’Neal, the stars will be surrounded by young, raw, inexperienced role players. As shown above, this is not how teams win titles. Farmar, Crittenton, Turiaf, and Radmanovic may all have great potential, but none of them understand the intricacies of the game. None of them have been playoff tested. They would be eaten alive by the Spurs cagey veterans in an intense playoff series (see Barbosa against the Spurs). Reflect back on Bynum and Turiaf fouling every guard attacking the lane; Smush taking miscalculated risks for steals; Radmanovic spacily roaming around on offense, destroying triangle spacing; Kwame trying to generate pick and roll after pick and roll on the triangle strong side with Farmar or Evans (can you think of a worse pick and roll duo than Evans/Kwame?); Sasha dribbling around mindlessly; Cook refusing to box out; etc., etc. These players are not ready.

So, if the Lakers are committed to immediately contending and bringing in a second star for Kobe, they must also address their youth and bring in a few older, veteran role players. Whether by the midevel or trade, they need a few Bowen’s, Horry’s, and Fox’s. Fisher has suddenly appeared as one possibility. Does he have anything left? Is Blake ready? What about Posey (a favorite of mine — his defense was key to the Heat defeating the Mavs two years ago)? Who else is out there? Is it worth it to trade away most of our prized young assets both for a second star and older, less talented role players? I propose that if the Lakers are sacrificing the future for Garnett, they must go “all in” and also seek the right mix of elderly supplemental players. It seems hasty to make such a drastic course change, so quickly. But unless Kobe softens, caution is not likely to be the watchword of the summer.

Posted in NBA general, Laker Analysis |

Fantastic analysis. I think it hits it right on the head. I keep hearing people say all we need is Garnett and we can contend. But as you point out it requires more than that.

JCool....any more rumors??

Papaloukas Re-Signs With CSKA

http://getgarnett.com/blog/?p=488

Cost Of Garnett Too High For Cuban?

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46947/20070706/cost_of_garnett_too_high_for_cuban/

tha show, taliq, love Firefox, jormea

as always, nice chatting/sparing with you. you all enjoy the weekend. i won’t be signing on for a while…………I know what the following bloggers will say:

Mitchell: “hooray”,
godchild: “I love kobe”
jormea: “es stupido, pince babosa KL"
lakertom: “go away, I don’t talk to strangers”

That Darth Kobe article is the shizit...I want to marry it and have its babies haha, jk. But it is really good.

Getting back to the real issue here...our team. Many feel like we are stronger, I agree. But still not enough to consistently hang around with the top teams in the league. Among the things we still need? A rebounder (kind of hoping that would come with the PF, but whatever lol); a player that can drive and get his own shot (or get shot for others)...that is aside from Kobe and LO; a physical defender (Mo Evans is ok, but we need more, hopefully Critten can do a little bit of it)...did I leave anything out? It would be nice to get a consistent outside shot kind of person...but really I think Vlad can be that, if he can stop getting in his own way.

AK/BK at last!!!!

I see you are trying to clean up the blog:

I see KLBeast & Gunner24 are now officially on the AK/BK watch

I bet you guys are annoyed you cannot spew all your hate!!

I see that KLbeast is so desperate to hate on Kobe, he has changed his name to KLBeast1 to try and defeat your blocks.

Same goes for gunner24 who is now gunner5, should we call him Gunnerx.

These guys just saddest people on the planet.

AK/BK can I suggest you just block their ip address or email accunt and you will not have to deal with these idiots anymore.

Funny how Steven tried the same stupid thing of changing his name.

Maybe the blog will return to a debating forum for Laker fans as it was originally intended!!!

Aaarrrhhhh!!

Angry_Laker

http://www.miamiherald.com/594/story/161812.html

Blake, 27, and Milwaukee's Mo Williams, 24, remain the Heat's top free agent targets at point guard. The Heat has the midlevel exception (nearly $6 million a year). But Williams, coming off a career season, could earn significantly more by staying in Milwaukee, which reportedly is offering $40 million through five years.

Williams' agent, Mark Bartelstein, said Thursday the Heat is still in contention for Williams but declined to suggest its chances to land him.

''It's just a process,'' Bartelstein said.

Blake, who finished the season as the starter in Denver, seeks the entire midlevel exception. But the Heat, Lakers and Nuggets are hesitant to offer $6 million a year.

All three teams are lining up other options. Clippers free agent guard Jason Hart listed the Heat among the inquiring teams. Chucky Atkins and Derek Fisher are candidates who could be signed for fewer guaranteed years and less than the midlevel exception.

Damon Stoudamire and the Heat would have mutual interest if he were bought out of the final two seasons and $8 million of his contract in Memphis. The Grizzlies drafted Mike Conley Jr., who joins a crowded point guard crop that also includes second-year player Kyle Lowry.

Stoudamire averaged 14 points and 6.4 assists in 12 seasons, but 7.5 points and 4.8 assists last season, his first after knee surgery in 2006.

''His knee is about 95 percent right now and he's working every day,'' said agent Aaron Goodwin. ``Obviously, in this situation, he'd like to know what opportunity he'll have in Memphis.''

AK/BK at last!!!!

I see you are trying to clean up the blog:

I see KLBeast & Gunner24 are now officially on the AK/BK watch

I bet you guys are annoyed you cannot spew all your hate!!

I see that KLbeast is so desperate to hate on Kobe, he has changed his name to KLBeast1 to try and defeat your blocks.

Same goes for gunner24 who is now gunner5, should we call him Gunnerx.

These guys just saddest people on the planet.

AK/BK can I suggest you just block their ip address or email accunt and you will not have to deal with these idiots anymore.

Funny how Steven tried the same stupid thing of changing his name.

Maybe the blog will return to a debating forum for Laker fans as it was originally intended!!!

Aaarrrhhhh!!

Angry_Laker

Hey guys,

I was watching the espn vid on espn.com, and ric bucher said kobe apologized to bynum before apologizing to mitch.

Jorema,

Are you sure thats not the "Kobe fan" manifesto????

Jorema,

By the way, have you been drinking already? Whats with the bloody hatred???

What happened to everyone, this blog was happier earlier today.

Lightbulb Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Ron Artest for Brian Cook, Kwame Brown, Jordan Farmar
How about this...we trade Filler... Brian Cook, Expiring Contract...Kwame Brown, & Young PG Jordan Farmar..Kings could make move to trade bibby after this trade...Plus we take a big contract from them, since they will be in rebuilding mode...Also we dont sign Crish mihm or maybe?? and use the mle on point guard or something to fit the team better...

Los Angeles Lakers Incoming Players: Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Ron Artest

Sacramento Kings Incoming Players: Brian Cook, Kwame Brown, Jordan Farmar

Trade machine Link:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3~25~981~1998~3002&teams=13~13~23~23~23

New Line Up:

MLE?/Crittenton/Sasha
Kobe/Evans
Artest/Luke/Radmanovic
Odom/Turiaf
Bynum/Shareef Abdur-Rahim/Mihm?

Miguel

Taliq

What i meant was that if Kobe didnt decide to gripe in the media, but instead asked for a trade behind closed doors then maybe the management would have kept their bargaining chip and wouldnt have looked so desperate all throughout the league. so weather kobe stayed or left, we wouldnt have maybe came away with a decent squad unlike the shaq trade. i understand that this is a business, but i dont think its too much to ask for a little professionalism. dont come out rallying the troops in labeling me as a mamba hater. i appreciate him as a basketball player and everything hes given the purple and gold, but what he did was wrong.

Jorema

"If the losers wants that team, go ahead, transfer your affects to the Clippers.
Truly Lakers fans want to win right now.
Pseudo Lakers fans want the team to do bad, so they can enjoy Kobe problems."

True Laker fans stay loyal to their team even if that team that you have on the floor is garbage. Save your clipper rantings for the other bandwagoneers who called for a 55 win season last year and arent here anymore.

GO LAKES!

Taliq,

The Timberwolves don't want Amare. The deal they were trying to work out was for
Amare to go to Atlanta and Atlanta to send them Marvin Williams, the #3 an #11
picks in the draft, and expiring contracts.

McHale made it clear: the only thing he wanted to get back in any trade for KG
was young cheap talented players, expiring contracts, and draft picks. That's
it. He doesn't want Amare because Amare makes too much and for too many
years.

The big hangup with the Lakers was Lamar Odom - he still has two years left on his
contract and it's too big a contract.

I guess McHale wants to have lots of cap space next summer when there are a
bunch of high quality free agents.

Lee,

"Can you name the one good decision that Mich Kupchak has done?"

- Trading a second round pick for Maurice Evans

- Drafting Andrew Bynum instead of Sean May

- Drafting Ronny Turiaf in the second round

- Drafting Luke Walton in the second round

Not much more than that, and they are overweighed by bad decisions, but if he
manages to get KG this summer, then all will be forgiven.

Lee,

So tell us, oh wise one, who would YOU have drafted in the 40th and 48th place in
the draft instead of Gasol and Yue?

Bear in mind that Kupchak has been pretty good at picking talent in the
second round (Walton, Turiaf).

Why force Kobe to play for Lakers if he doesn't want anymore.
No point keeping him - if the heart is no longer here.
TRADE KOBE!
Thats the best move our team can make.

KlBeast:

"Kobe never apologized to Shaq"

Watch this youtube video and you'll see otherwise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBpI8dCJfUk&mode=related&search=

Kobe didn't have to say that. Nobody put a gun to his head and said "apologize or I'll kill you." Why do you think Shaq buried the hatchet and greeted Kobe warmly during a Lakers-Heat game in 2006? Because Kobe finally manned up and apologized... but I forgot, you're so perfect, you never do any wrong, so you couldn't possibly understand what it means to do something wrong and try to make amends for it.

Oh, and the video contains a bunch