Derek Fisher's story is inspiring

From USATODAY.com

"Anybody would love to play with Kobe," says the Denver Nuggets' Carmelo Anthony, the USA's leading scorer at the 2006 World Championships. "We love it, the way he is meshing with the other guys here. You never have to worry about what Kobe is going to bring to the table."

KL, why don't you put that in your pipe and smoke it.

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Hal9000,
"" nybody would love to play with Kobe We love it, the way he is meshing with the other guys here.
You never have to worry about what Kobe is going to bring to the table."
KL, why don't you put that in your pipe and smoke it."

Fortunately Hal9000, Thanks to the WWKLD say bracelet that I have I can
predict what KL will say " What Kobe will bring to the table is ballHogging
as usuall" Damn G1 these bracelets really work.

Thanks for the mind blowing double feature. From D Fish to Donaghy crosses from the light to the dark of the NBA.

My favorite quote, and most telling, is Brandon Lang's quote about how "betting has been dropping in the NBA because on any given night the players obviously don't care and no one wants to put their money on that."

The Lakers have a misguided, self invoved star that obviously cares. Maybe it's time to appreciate the little things and build from there.

I believe Fisher is gonna help bigger than we think. The knowledge of the traingle alone, veteran smarts and him being such a good team guy will help.
Glad he's back.

Also, I feel with this roster, we are ready to pull some realistic trades. Are we ready to make it pass the second round with this roster? Nope! (That's even if we are healthy)

Hopefully we can sign KG when/if he decides to walk in 2008. Looks like the Front Office can't pull a KG trade for this season. (Hope I'm wrong)

Charles

I think David Stern have done an overall good job for basketball, so I hope the Donaghy case is an isolated case that would be resolved without much damage to the NBA.

I have always considered the referees as the most important x-factor in any game.

In reality, it will be very hard to find out how many games were officiated with malice.

Some bad calls do not have to be too obvious to change the outcome of a game.

One bad call on an impact player at a critical point early in the game could change the momentum of the game and swing it in favor of the other team.

I tell you...Derek Fisher is one of the clasiest guys in the league. He is an inspiration and an example to all fathers and players. He'll be an asset to the Lakers once again. I wish I could be ther for the 1st Lakers game to welcome him back.

Its the TODAY show not good morning america

Obviously the Tim Donaghy story is very disturbing, but given the connection between sports and gambling, I can not say it is surprising. Black market crime is a huge industry throughout the world, and is often times over looked by political figures of today. The amount of money made by drugs, gambling, and theft is alarming, when considering our American Government spends a boatload of money trying to prevent these things, to no avail. Ultimately it is our responsibility as citizens to speak out about our outrage, and make sure that we elect people who can speak on our behalf's to what we believe is right and wrong. When it comes down to it, is it more important for Congress to spend time questioning Mark McGwire, or trying to find solutions to the war in Iraq, improving social security, finding cures for chronic ailments and terminal illness, getting universal health care, and finally figuring out how we as a world are going to stop killing the planet? For example, after leaving La Verne, CA at 5:00 AM this morning to get to work in Cypress, I was surrounded by millions of cars on the 210,605 and 405 freeways. And the problem is that I need to feed my family and have to go to work, I have no other options besides driving. Carpool and ride sharing aside, it is alarming that no plan has been conceived or even discussed that is viable to eliminate the amount of personal transit in LA, nor does their seem to be one in sight. It should worry everyone, that instead of building a decent, Bus, Train, Monorail, or subway system, that they continue to use tax money to widen, extend, and create new freeways. I hope I am not the only one who feels this way, as I love basketball and think it is the best sport in the world. But there are sometimes more important things, which the Fisher story shows all too well. I am not one to preach, sometime though, you have to stick your neck out and say things that people may have already heard, but willingly choose not listen.

For every rat that you kill, there are at least 20 more standing in the shadows. I am developing the uneasy sense that Stern will seek the quick fix and make every attempt to put this crisis of confidence in the rear view mirror, even at the cost of overlooking everything else that is wrong with NBA officiating.

By the way readers, all NBA fans should feel called upon to demand revelation of all pertinent truths, and absolute comprehensive resolution and repair. This can best be done right here, and while this matter has recieved some attention on this board, I am more than a little surprised that more of you haven't taken a break from Saint worship long enough to really give this matter the attention and focus it merits. After all, it is only the integrity of the entire NBA which is at stake. There hasn't been a bigger NBA story in your life.

Sonnybelfast

Very good story about Derek Fisher.....

Lakofan,

Thanks for the pickup. I don't watch either show, so they're easy for me to mix up.

AK

laker haters rejoice on another crappy article!

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=243512

sonnyb:

"I am more than a little surprised that more of you haven't taken a break from Saint worship long enough to really give this matter the attention and focus it merits."

Still angry about Game 6?

DFISH I just opened the dictionary to look up the word class, and there you were.
Who said there are no hero's in sports? GOD bless you Brother and welcome back.

Sonnybelfast,

I understand your outrage over the Donaghy situation and I share in your sentiments but what would you consider absolute comprehensive resolution and repair?

This situation has definitely affected the NBA's credibility to an extent I doubt can ever be repaired. As basketball fans, we have to learn how to get passed this and focus on enjoying the game itself. There will always be the question "it is fixed" every time we don't agre with the outcome of a game or a questionable call.

The key to this situation is ensuring that this referee was acting alone and that there are no other "bad apples" within the league. I have heard several reports that Donaghy will talk and could name other referees and players involved but until then, I'd like to think this idiot was acting alone.

I'm still trying to figure out the TRUE meaning of this INCREDIBLE post by Jorema last night.

""The medicine that lebron is taking right now is the zip in his lips putted by Bryant"

I read that sentence... and... man... new truths are revealed to me every time. Lebron has a zip in his lips - thanks to Kobe. Lebron is taking medicine right now, that is the equivalent of the zip in his lips put there? by Kobe. Kobe is putting the zip in Lebron's lips. Kobe "putted" something in Lebron's lips which in some circles could be called "medicine"... and on and on...

This is could be the foundation of a new religion for all I know! HOW do I get that "zip in MY lips"? Is there some kind of book on this subject? WHERE do I go to get such information? Is "Jorema" some kind of prophet spewing forth the true secrets of humanity in little tidbits between rants about Kobe and idiotic conspiracy theories that Phil Jackson came back to PREVENT Kobe from ever winning the title again? I MUST discover the truth behind these hidden messages!!!

Nik Kannan,
"I am not one to preach, sometime though, you have to stick your neck out and say things that
people may have already heard, but willingly choose not listen."

Hey Nik that was a great post. Thanks

glad to have derek fisher back where he belongs.

as for shady refs and shaving points in the nba, that's old news!

Mamba 24,

Larry, thank you for lightening our day with your funny roll call. I just have to ask you a favor, please bring back Fatty. I requested him to contact you when you went on an extended fishing trip, we need fatty back, generic one and mamba24 the three stoodges will be complete. Haha, j/k only OK.

Last year, It was the story of Ron Turiaf's heart, next season, it will be Fisher and his devotion to his family. I hope we get Coby Karl even if we don't win Championship, these Laker players promotes character and ideals, traits that we need among professional. Who cares for Championship when games are tainted anyway.

The mainstream media have joined the investigation on scandal, it was CNN and on the MSN. That's what happens when a gardener saw weeds growing in the garden and ignore them, eventually these weeds spoils the landscape of the garden. The same is true with Bonds, Vick and Donaghy. Ther is no short cut for success, you just have to earn it.

repost

hobbit

"So here's my question to you: Why do you want a player with a poor work ethic on your team?"

of course i don't want someone with a poor work ethic on my team, but i care more about results rather than the means to the end. for example, i'm a manager of and i don't particularly care how my guys get their work done as long as it gets done on time and correctly. if i nit pick on how they do it (analogy of calling someone lazy or fat), they'll eventually get mad and leave (analogy for a trade demand). so i can win the battle and force my guys to do it my way, but will eventually lose the war when everyone leaves and nobody wanting to help me becuase i would have accumulated a bad rep. you get my perspective?

Sonny B

Agreed. I've posted on nothing but the ref scandal since it broke but most arent' surprised and some seem to buying the company line. I agree that this goes deeper than Stern's damage control.

Even Mark Cuban's emails to the press are positive spins on the darkest shadow ever cast a shadow on this league. What would you say if you owned a team? He hears his golden goose gasping for air as ratings drop and networks turn away.

Fans will cry "fix" throughout next season, home teams will win at an all time high, and smart money will bet the over.

Don't stop screamng about it, till every rock is turned over.

DFish is a class act and he'll really help the Laker's now and the future.

East Coast Jessie,
"until then, I'd like to think this idiot was acting alone.

Well said East Coast Jessie.

sonnybelfast;

such melodrama..

I'll put my chips on Kobe anytime.

Guys, I don't know if it was already covered, butI searching any noteable Laker games in which that ref was officiating. I found that he was officiating game 3 of the 2006 playoffs. Nonetheless, the Lakers won that game and imo nothing was out of the ordinary... I'm still searching for more games..

I care about how things get done, not just the result. This method leads to success in the long-term.

Edwin,
". I just have to ask you a favor, please bring back Fatty"

Hey Edwin whatever I can do to bring Fatty back I will. So how do we do it?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=expertstatsdonaghy

Good article on the Donaghy issue. Makes it sound like the winner/loser was not affected, but the total points was. That could be fairly easy to accomplish by calling "extra" fouls when necessary to get the desired point total; if the "extra" fouls are called evenly, they are unlikely to have an effect on who wins or loses.

I suspect that the league will use computer programs to look for tendencies like this; if they already do so they will modify them appropriately. That would be relatively easy to do.

Another thought is that this will probably increase the "home arena" affect; crowds will really get on the refs now for calls they disagree with, which will (at least subconsciously) make the refs less likely to make borderline calls that go against the home team.

"I'll put my chips on Kobe anytime."

but... would you let Kobe put the zip in your lips? LOL! Oh! That's terrible...

On this ref thing, I'm sure there are going to be tons of examples of strange calls but in the end, what can anyone do about it? So the Spurs victory was tainted, what are they going to do? You would have to have the same rosters and they would have to be in mid-season form to truly play the game over. All Stern can do is assure everyone going forward that everything is on the up and up. If Donaghey starts naming other refs or for crying out loud, PLAYERS! then the only real solution would be to remove ALL of the current refs, give them 2-3 years worth of salary or whatever and bring in a whole new crew, supervised by somebody outside of the league and invoke the special use of video replay for a season or 2 allowing coaches to challenge say 3 calls a game without penalty. I would think there would have to be another ref added to the crew to "oversee" and be able to overrule calls, like they do in tennis.

Whatever... I'm bored with this story already. Could Kobe go on another radio outburst to take this off the front pages? Thank you.

AK,

I don't watch them either, but on the video you linked to, it says TODAY show, so I think you were still asleep when you posted the link, haha

generic,

I believe it was games five and seven. Yea, I believe it directly cost us a championship. But wouldn't you be angry about it, and outcomes of other games; any NBA games? It's water under the bridge. What we as fans must do right now is insist, no, DEMAND that things (officiating and other nonsense) get a thorough re-evaluation, adjustment and cleaning where required. Could there be a better time than now? Even if the inquiry means a partial or complete disruption of a season, it is not as though we'd be breaking up current Kings or Lakers champpionship teams. Saavy? The long term results would be worth it.

Jessie,

"I'd like to think this idiot was acting alone"

Me too, but I worked in the gaming industry too long and know better. Thieves and cheats never act alone. Affecting even 1/2 of a point one way or another in the most inconsequential game can have such far reaching ramifications that even the most seasoned brokebacker's head would start spinning, or in Jorenema's case, stop spinning. It's is paramount that every lead is exhausted and then re-evaluated.

Beast,

I haven't read any correspondence between you and Tom which may have concerned me. I just don't have the time to get to it as I would like to. About a year and a half ago, I predicted that support for the Saint would slack off, and that (once silent) demands to trade him, by fellow Laker supporters, would pick up steam. I saw it as inevitable and believe that the polarity on the matter will only strenthen. It has become more of a family feud and we've got our own going on up here. I'll still take my shots now and then, after all, I am the natural enemy. Don't forget it.

And the irony remains. I think Kobe Dawg has got some serious problems and is not a good fit in Los Angeles, but I marvel at his play and believe he is doing the best he can, but therein lies the problem. It may be impossible for some of the donkey hybrids on this board to appreciate, but I look forward to the day that the Lakers once again play team ball.

Go Kings!
Go Niners!

Sonnybelfast

Lakofan,

Actually, it was because I saw Matt Lauer and I thought he was on "Good Morning America." But clearly, I wasn't paying enough attention. haha

AK

What we're spending money on players when all we had to do was buy a ref.? Another front office slip-up!

llakerfaze,
"What we're spending money on players when all we had to do was buy a ref.? Another front office slip-up!"

Leave it to faze to get to the bottom line.

hey TaosHum, why don't you "zip" it? kidding.

Never

"I'll put my chips on Kobe anytime."

i hope you're playing with play money.

"Me too, but I worked in the gaming industry too long and know better. Thieves and cheats never act alone."

Sonny,

I don't mean alone in the sense that he was working alone literally but without the involvement of other NBA officials, refs, or players. I'm sure people bet on every sport under the sun but once an "inside" person gets involved, it's a whole new ballgame.

There is mention amongst other refs in the league that they are afraid he'll attempt to "throw them under the bus"(for lack of a better term) during this investigation even if they had nothing to do with the gambling. An SI article points out the following quote:
"We know who we are dealing with,'' said a highly placed league source, who is "very concerned'' Donaghy would escalate such a case into a modern-day Salem witch trial.
"We always said if he goes down [for anything], he's going to take other people with him," said a member of Donaghy's former golf club.

Now, that would be really damaging to the league because it would just create the idea that no ref can be trusted. I mean, really, we may not always agree with their calls but acusing someone of committting a felony on the b-ball court would be taking it a little far.

Sonny Belfast,

Maybe the ref scandal should be discussed more here, but personally I really don't care. I know a lot of people will think that's wrong, but I don't. I LOVE THE GAME OF BASKETBALL. I don't care if I'm watching the NBA, the NCAA, or just watching a pick up game, I love to see the game played. Will this affect a lot of fans? Probably, but TRUE basketball fans will watch the game regardless. There have always been bad calls in every game, hell there are bad calls in every sport, and people are going to sqeculate no matter what, so as far as I'm concerned it is a non-issue.

The only thing that really worries me about this whole situation is the casual/non fans opinion of the sport. There are soooo many people that don't like the game because "the players are all thugs", "it's a black league", or "they make so much money that they don't care". The people that make statements like that are the ones you have to worry about. They'll use this situation to drag the league through the mud, and try to bring it down. That's why it is up to TRUE fans like us to make sure we hold on to our love for the game, and try to be ambassadors for it. We have to teach those casual/non fans why the NBA is such a great league, and why the game of basketball is the best sport in the world. If we TRUE fans don't do that THEN our game is in trouble.

The whole ref scandal doesn't bring to light the corruption of sports and the NBA, it just confirms what fans have suspected and theorized for years, if not decades. As a Laker fan, it just makes me appreciate the Bling Dynasty run even more because that team could win 5 on 8, and I remember thinking that to myself many times when absurd calls were being made in close games. Nowadays, teams that are supposed to be good still get tripped up by controversial refereeing. Some examples I can think of off the top of my head:

- Mavs losing to Heat in the Finals. They had it in the bag until the refs wanted to extend the series, which turned into the Heat winning it all via the Dwayde free throw parade.
- Suns losing to Spurs after getting guys suspended. While the suspensions themselves were handed down from the league, the reason guys came off the bench was because things had escalated throughout (Nash's gash) and boiled over when Horry hip-checked Nash. Remember the Bling Dynasty team when calls went against them? They just dropped the ball, shook their head, and ran up the court to continue play. I can specifically remember Shaq, Kobe, Fox, and Fisher doing that many times.
- the Hall of Fame Lakers (Shaq, Kobe, Malone, GP) losing to the Pistons. Even THESE guys couldn't overcome the refs in the Finals against Detroit, where LINDSEY HUNTER pretty much stopped Kobe defensively since the refs swallowed their whistles. Of course, this team had serious ego issues too.

My short list of examples involve contenders, as lesser teams clearly can't overcome crappy refs on a regular basis, in fact (especially in the Leastern Conference) often rely on those refs' biases swinging their way to win. Tough as it is to say, the only other team that was/is unfazed by the refs are the Spurs, who only seem to fail when not entirely healthy, not out of some implosion from being unable to handle suspect refereeing. In fact, not only are they unfazed, but they almost embrace bad refs because they have the personnel to exploit them. With the Bling Dynasty, they just acted as if the refs weren't even there. Before you attack, haters, I will say that it took that first ring to learn that mindset, and by the third ring they barely scraped by, surviving the Queens who also did effectively ignore the refs but couldn't make a shot in game 7.

sonnybelfast

"About a year and a half ago, I predicted that support for the Saint would slack off, and that (once silent) demands to trade him, by fellow Laker supporters, would pick up steam."

i'm assuming Saint=Kobe. i predicted the same thing after the shaq trade that the laker team would be quite ordinary under kobe's reign because having one star who scores, and only scores, is not a recipe for a championship club (check out T-Mac's Magics and AI's Sixers). i firmly believe that kobe wanted shaq out circa 2002 because kobe thought, erroneously, that he was the jordan apparent. this desire to be the next jordan led to the escalation of the "feud" in LA which ultimately destroyed the laker almost-dynasty. now the "Saint" is backtracking and trying to worm is way out of the mess he created. thanks for the response, i appreciate it.

BTW, my beef with lakertomgirl is that he comes on the blog and lectures the so-called kobe "haters" on being civil but doesn't say a damn thing to all the kobe loyalist who uses names like "idiot" and "racist" towards me. Then lakertomgirl tries to censor me and other "haters" with the stupid "blacklist". what lakertomgirl doesn't understand is that some of my post are shtick to stir up conversation. i sometimes throw in jokes to respond to the ridiculous post by kobe loyalist (like kobe apologist) to even things out.

Mamba24/10

You said: Fortunately Hal9000, Thanks to the WWKLD say bracelet that I have I canpredict what KL will say " What Kobe will bring to the table is ballHogging
as usuall" Damn G1 these bracelets really work.

Nice!

KL,

You said: of course i don't want someone with a poor work ethic on my team, but i care more about results rather than the means to the end. for example, i'm a manager of and i don't particularly care how my guys get their work done as long as it gets done on time and correctly. if i nit pick on how they do it (analogy of calling someone lazy or fat), they'll eventually get mad and leave (analogy for a trade demand). so i can win the battle and force my guys to do it my way, but will eventually lose the war when everyone leaves and nobody wanting to help me becuase i would have accumulated a bad rep. you get my perspective?

I get your perspective. The follow up to the question is: How long do you
think someone with a poor work ethic will be able to generate "results"?
To go back to your analagy of someone being lazy or fat: Basketball is
a game of "hustle". Do you really think that someone who is fat or lazy
will be able to hustle for 82 games? If we look at the results of a certain
someone in Miami: The first year didn't go so well. The 2nd year he was
carried by D-wade and crooked refs. The 3rd year he got swept in the
first round. I don't believe he has played 80% of the games in any season
since *maybe* 2002. [ I could be wrong about that. ] I'm certain that he has
not played 80% since he moved to Miami. Do you really pay someone 20
million per year, so they can moonlight as a cop and star on reality TV show? He's being paid to play in the NBA, right?

Cheating in sports is wide spread to the point that there are vernacularisms to describe aspects of it. -We've got a whistle- Those among you who are cavalier about the significance of any level of game fixing are ignorant of how it works and apparently don't have a clue about the negative (assuming you want fair play, and sometimes I wonder) impact it has.

In my mind, very few things about being a fan of this game warrant serious attention. This is one of them.

Weave.Man,
We have to teach those casual/non fans why the NBA is such a great league,

Well said WeaveMan.

hal9000

"Anybody would love to play with Kobe," says the Denver Nuggets' Carmelo Anthony, the USA's leading scorer at the 2006 World Championships. "We love it, the way he is meshing with the other guys here. You never have to worry about what Kobe is going to bring to the table."

i appreciate the consideration. perhaps what Melo is saying is truthful, but i'll refer you to the old saying "keep your friends close and your enemies closer". you see, my new mortal enemy, is that kobe did things backwards by creating enemies, then wonders why nobody wants to help him. if i was melo (i'd quit my stupid job, it i digress), i'd pay all the respects to kobe/wade/LBJ because you never know who can help you and, more importantly, who can hurt you.

As for kobe's attitude transformation, i believe kobe is faking it to get brownie points becaue kobe wants out of LA and nobody seems to want him........at least Dallas, Pheonix and Chicago for now. Remember, kobe wants to ride Nash/Dirk/Bull's coattail (kind of like riding Shaq's coattail) to another championship. kobe wants so much of what he can't have.....to be like mike.

It would be relatively easy to use computer programs to go back through games for the past several years and look for the tendencies discussed in the article I linked in a previous post. If certain tendencies show up in games particular refs worked, then it would be simple to do checks on the financial records of those refs to see if there were irregularities.

If the NBA hasn't already been doing that, they certainly are now. And Las Vegas probably is, too, and probably several reporters who are digging for dirt for a story.

hobbit,
"Do you really think that someone who is fat or lazy will be able to hustle for 82 games?"

Natural ability makes up for a lot. Players like Shaq, or Charles Barkley, can get by with less conditioning because of their God-given abilities.

Backstories are great and all, but I'd much rather hear about the piece coming that we need to build a championship caliber team.

Ronny is neat and all high energy and his story is great. Fisher's obviously a totally stand-up guy (and I'm shocked that people could interpret his actions otherwise). Kobe is the continuously unfolding not always good news story...

Now that we're overflowing with backstory, it's time for JO AND Artest or KG. After all, it'd be really nice to hold onto the Kobester.

of interest on a twofold level:

Updated: July 24, 2007, 12:41 AM ET

MINNEAPOLIS -- The agent representing guard Troy Hudson said Monday that Hudson doesn't believe he figures in the future plans of the Minnesota Timberwolves so they're working to reach a buyout settlement.

If a buyout agreement is reached, and Hudson clears waivers, he'd become an unrestricted free agent. If that doesn't happen, agent Bill Neff said Hudson will return to the team.
-----------------------------------
so, obviously, 1. what does this do to the Garnett rumors???

2. wonder if the Lakers would have some interest if... say they are planning on trading Farmar? Just a thought. We could give them Sasha and pay Hudson the same amount - IF he chooses to accept this mission...

hobbit

"To go back to your analagy of someone being lazy or fat: Basketball is
a game of "hustle"."

i agree with you 100%. the problem is that i don't consider shaq to be lazy (maybe fat, but not lazy). i think this "lazy and fat" crap was kobe's way to discredit shaq so kobe can be the leader. so in a way, you and i agree and disagree.

"if we look at the results of a certain someone in Miami: The first year didn't go so well. "

as i recall the 2005 season, the Heats were 90 seconds from an NBA finals berth. 2006 championship, 2007....layed an egg i'll concede. shaq really only had 2-3 years of dominance left after 2004, but he'll have 3-5 years of solid role playing enroute to a few more championship opportunities. you see, the sun will set on everybody in pro sports, even kobe bryant. kobe has 2-3 good years left before you stick a fork in him (ie, he's done as the #1).

"The 2nd year he was carried by D-wade and crooked refs"

i hope you were joking?

"Do you really pay someone 20 million per year, so they can moonlight as a cop and star on reality TV show? He's being paid to play in the NBA, right?"

honestly, do these guys in the NBA really deserve the money they get? hell kwame butterfingers' gets 9 mil a year. if i had 1 mil in cash right now, i can reitire and never have to work again. look, shaq's time is about to set and the 20 million isn't necessarily what he brings now, but what he's brought over his entire NBA career, which i think it's work more than 20 million a year.

"I'll put my chips on Kobe anytime."

i'll put my chips on Tim Donaghy anytime, safer bet

Well since I'm a professional poker player, financial advisor, or whatever I could write about myself as KL does, I'll stick with Kobe.

I know that Stern is the commish of NBA. What , or how much of a responsibility does Stu Jackson have regarding this issue. I never really was fond of Stu's way of doing his job. It always seem like he has it againts the Lakers, Kobe specially.

KLBeast:

"i appreciate the consideration. perhaps what Melo is saying is truthful, but i'll refer you to the old saying "keep your friends close and your enemies closer". you see, my new mortal enemy, is that kobe did things backwards by creating enemies, then wonders why nobody wants to help him. if i was melo (i'd quit my stupid job, it i digress), i'd pay all the respects to kobe/wade/LBJ because you never know who can help you and, more importantly, who can hurt you.

As for kobe's attitude transformation, i believe kobe is faking it to get brownie points becaue kobe wants out of LA and nobody seems to want him........at least Dallas, Pheonix and Chicago for now. Remember, kobe wants to ride Nash/Dirk/Bull's coattail (kind of like riding Shaq's coattail) to another championship. kobe wants so much of what he can't have.....to be like mike."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have to give you props for finding a way to turn Carmelo's positive statement about Kobe into a negative. I'll bet you could squeeze water out of a rock.... so I am officially nominating you as Vice President of the Kobe Haters Club. I would have nominated you for President, but you didn't say "F-U Kobe" anywhere in your response. I know you can do better than that.

I recognize that there will always be bad apples, cheats and too, I do not want the NBA dragged through the mud. However, if it becomes necessary, so be it. I will speak for all fans of world class basketball by saying we aren't going anywhere. We desire continuous and meaningful efforts to keep it clean, even when it may cause some pain. If you choose to belittle the significance of cheating in my game, that is your call.

To suggest that we not be all-that-concerned, because it is the nature of things, is tantamount to suggesting that we not continue to aggressively discover and plug identified leaks in the damn, because the damn, as you say, will always leak somewhere. Before all is said and done, we may have to divert the water and rebuild the damn entirely. I hope not.

At any event, I do not want this situation glossed over or otherwise dismissed by an ignorant and/or lazy media and fan base.

Don't feed the trolls...

Sonny,

I hear you, and I agree with you. How would you go about fixing the problem?

Fans in USA give Kobe the middle finger more than any player in the NBA!!!!

In the NBA Kobe is given the middle finger the most by fans up down the country. Even I have given him the middle finger. The league said that he is officially the most middle fingered player by fans.

How do the league know this, well when the fans made Kobe the No 1 selling Jersey in the NBA, they where doing so using their middle finger to input their pin numbers for their credit cards!!!!

Q.E.D

Aaarrrhhhh!!

Angry_Laker

Anyone who deserves to be thrown under the bus should be thrown under the bus. Wherever that takes us will be a better place.

The whole ref scandal doesn't bring to light the corruption of sports and the NBA, it just confirms what fans have suspected and theorized for years, if not decades. As a Laker fan, it just makes me appreciate the Bling Dynasty run even more because that team could win 5 on 8, and I remember thinking that to myself many times when absurd calls were being made in close games. Nowadays, teams that are supposed to be good still get tripped up by controversial refereeing. Some examples I can think of off the top of my head:

- Mavs losing to Heat in the Finals. They had it in the bag until the refs wanted to extend the series, which turned into the Heat winning it all via the Dwayde free throw parade.
- Suns losing to Spurs after getting guys suspended. While the suspensions themselves were handed down from the league, the reason guys came off the bench was because things had escalated throughout (Nash's gash) and boiled over when Horry hip-checked Nash. Remember the Bling Dynasty team when calls went against them? They just dropped the ball, shook their head, and ran up the court to continue play. I can specifically remember Shaq, Kobe, Fox, and Fisher doing that many times.
- the Hall of Fame Lakers (Shaq, Kobe, Malone, GP) losing to the Pistons. Even THESE guys couldn't overcome the refs in the Finals against Detroit, where LINDSEY HUNTER pretty much stopped Kobe defensively since the refs swallowed their whistles. Of course, this team had serious ego issues too.

My short list of examples involve contenders, as lesser teams clearly can't overcome crappy refs on a regular basis, in fact (especially in the Leastern Conference) often rely on those refs' biases swinging their way to win. Tough as it is to say, the only other team that was/is unfazed by the refs are the Spurs, who only seem to fail when not entirely healthy, not out of some implosion from being unable to handle suspect refereeing. In fact, not only are they unfazed, but they almost embrace bad refs because they have the personnel to exploit them. With the Bling Dynasty, they just acted as if the refs weren't even there. Before you attack, haters, I will say that it took that first ring to learn that mindset, and by the third ring they barely scraped by, surviving the Queens who also did effectively ignore the refs but couldn't make a shot in game 7.

Generic

"I replace doubt by certainty, despair by hope, malice by good, complaints by duty, scepticism by faith, sophisms by cool equanimity and pride by modesty".

if you refer to me in the context of that Lautréamont verses....
Then, you got me.
I humbly accept the comparison.

Sonny,

How many championships do you think your Kings will win if you are able to sign Mike Wilks?

bd

I lthink it was Long Time Laker Fan who brought up the Chick factor missing from the Lakers. Props for the post. Chick meant much more to the team than any of us will know , and he is sorely missed. There would have never been a Kobe-Shaq struggle if Chick were alive.

For the Carmelo quote, I am sure he means it because Kobe is playing with All Stars and they are not in awe of him like some of the Lakers seem to be. Time will tell if Carmelo feels the same after the games are complete. Check back in a few weeks.

Sonny,

But you are referring to a reactive way of fixing the problem by instilling fear about the aftermath? How about a more pro-active way - getting rid of the problem completely? Why not just ban betting? Not the easiest thing to implement, but I don't think this is going to be easy.

Harry Yahoo,

Among other things, I suggest that contributors pound their respective blogs, commanding Stern not to white-wash this. Keep the fires lit. If we keep asking the questions, maybe some good investigative reporters (if there are any left) and others, will start providing some answers. The real harm will not come from opening the can of worms if one exists.

KLBEast

"Remember, kobe wants to ride Nash/Dirk/Bull's coattail (kind of like
riding Shaq's coattail)."

Actually it would be very much like that, because just like Shaq, before he
started RIDING KOBE's coattail, Nash, Dirk, and the Bulls haven't won any
championships. At least in your distortion of the phrase.

You want to tell the truth? Devean George rode coattails to championships.
Slava Medvedenko rode coattails to championships. Jelani McCoy rode
coattails to a championship. Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, and Robert Horry
EARNED a championship. Kobe and Shaq LED to a championship.

And Dirk, Nash, and the current Chicago bunch haven't done any of
those things.

If Dirk or Nash earns a championship next year and then Kobe joins
their team the year after, THEN he would be riding coattails.

But then again, I know you only distort the truth to try to get a rise out
of the rest of us... you should change your Name to KLYeast

Gambling ref's. Oohhhhh!!!! That explains why the Heat beat the Mavs. It's all starting to make sense now.

long time

"But then again, I know you only distort the truth to try to get a rise out
of the rest of us... you should change your Name to KLYeast"

KL Yeast? I like it. We can agree to disagree on who led the lakers to a championship. Shaq's taken 3 different teams to the finals and has made it past the 1st round in every season except 2007 and shaq's rookie year. What has kobe done without shaq? That's right, nada. BTW, kobe was only able to do what he did in the playoffs CUZ OF SHAQ. How has kobe faired without shaq? dismal, abysmal, underachieving, poorly are a few words that come to mind. Oh, BTW, kobe EARNED the championships since kobe was a role player (that’s right a role player!). You can’t call kobe a leader if nobody follows kobe. Proof you might ask, who has joined kobe to help him win a championship? Our most notable free agent signing in the past 3 seasons is our former back-up PG who is coming to LA for reasons that are not completely related to playing b-ball (that’s all I’ll say about Fish’s motives).

Let me ask you a serious question, if kobe is such a talent and so great, why does he want out of the very situation he asked for? Don't give me this FO crap, it's kobe's scapegoat. Kobe's a chicken$hit who can't do it on his own and doesn't give the proper respect to those who have done it before him, hey kind of like you kobe loyalist who constantly try and give kobe credit for the laker championships.........BTW, who was awarded the finals MVP? I know, if there was a playoff MVP kobe woulda, coulda, shoulda....yada, yada, yada. your boy sucks and your boy is looking to leave you…..

Back on topic: I have total respect for Derek Fisher. Still, being that his reasons for coming back to LA aren't primarily about basketball, the one thing that worries me is that it will be a distraction, particuarly to Kobe. That is, Fish is doing it as a job, to make money to provide for his family. If Kobe still has that bitter pill of distrust towards the front office, Fisher's mindset might be too convenient for Kobe to follow till he can opt out. THAT is one reason why I'd love a clarification from Kobe about his stance with the team. Kobe is still the leader of this team, despite the rantings of haters, and knowing that he's fully committed to bringing this franchise back to glory would be a huge step in morale for the whole roster. That being said, I believe Fisher will only fall back on his daughter's plight for perspective if the Lakers are playing poorly over a long stretch. So if he and Kobe can focus the team from the start, it may never come to that, but again, that's if...

"With a small rotation of big men -- veteran free agents Chris Webber and Dale Davis are not expected to be re-signed." - Detroit Free Press

Dales Davis may not be serviceable but for Chris Webber in Laker uniform, please........ what more can you ask if you pay him $3 or even $4M. Chris Webber is better than:

1. Kwame
2. Mihm
3. Bynum
4 Turiaf
5. Cook

Those are tall players of the Laker line up that will guard the post. Lakers need a veteran rebounder. This is the trade we can afford by waiving Sasha and absorbing Webber, can we do that?

BTW, Suns is considering of getting Webber.

jorema -

"My advise to you...hook yourself in some kind of phonics that can elevate your braincells if you want to argue something with logic and smartness."

That was awesome. I nominate you as the blog's official Yogi Berra.

RMA

As a follow up on my post about C-Webb, here are his stats:

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/6842

C'mon PJ, please ask MK to bid on Webber, he's will be a free agent this coming Sunday.

Hal9000
"Anybody would love to play with Kobe," says the Denver Nuggets' Carmelo Anthony, the USA's leading scorer at the 2006 World Championships. "We love it, the way he is meshing with the other guys here. You never have to worry about what Kobe is going to bring to the table."

KL
"i appreciate the consideration. perhaps what Melo is saying is truthful, but i'll refer you to the old saying "keep your friends close and your enemies closer". "

I WAS GOING TO SAY THE SAME THING. MAKE OLD KOBIATCH THINKS HE RESPECT HIM AND SOFTEN HIM UP FOR A BEAT DOWN THIS YEAR. i BET IF THEY ASK MELO WOULD HE CONSIDER LA AS A FUTURE DESTINATION, HE WOULD SAY "IF KOBE'S THERE. F-U"

JOREMA,

No comment on Who's Now? Isn't that the same as your tired old 1999 Forbes news articles. Have you succumb to diarrhea of the mouth?

Never,
"Well since I'm a professional poker player, financial advisor, or whatever I could write about myself as KL does, I'll stick with Kobe."

You must don't win that often. And i wouldn't trust you with my money making those types of bets.

HARI = SAMIR

"Don't feed the trolls..."

How's Office Space stocks doing? It's funny how you went into protective custody once your cover was blown on this blog.

Angry,
"No 1 selling Jersey in the NBA, they where doing so using their middle finger to input their pin numbers for their credit cards"

OBVIOUSLY, THAT'S OVERSEAS PIN NUMBERS. I DON'T THINK IT'S IN THE USA. FACE IT. KOBE'S WILL NEVER GET THE POPULARITY VOTE UNLESS THE CONTEST IS WHO'S DRAMA.

Kwame, LO, Bynum next year's first round pick for JO, Foster and Ike Diogu..... Buss make it happen.... THis proposal will go away soon if the Buss's don't jump on this oppertunity... The Lakers will see a major upgrad in their FC and we can finally have a legitament chance at compiting....

BUSS DO IT

Lakerade,

Your 1225 assessment of what happened in the 2002 WCF is about as reasonable as I've heard on this board. While the Kings and Lakers did play through it in spite of the officiating, and the outcome was the outcome, it should never have gotten to that 7th game. It should be enough for players to compete against the opposition, and not against the refs and their interests, especially when the teams are so evenly matched.

An NBA officiating scandal has revealed its ugly head. Is this an opportunity to really investigate and perhaps, make wholesale changes if they are deemed necessary? Clearly. Will the NBA do it? I'd lay heavy odds against it. This is what a whistle in your pocket will get you.

Laker Lover:

"There would have never been a Kobe-Shaq struggle if Chick were alive."

Chick Hearn was the man, and he is still sorely missed 5 years after his death... but even he couldn't stop Shaq and Kobe from fueding. Remember the headlines they made in the 2000-2001 season. If Chick were alive today, I can't even imagine wht he'd say about the Kobe rape case... the Shaq-Kobe breakup... Kobe's public demands... and the referee scandal. He's probably rolling over in his grave.

Here is another news Yi Jianlian is definitely not signing with Milwaukee Bucks, hw would rather go back to China. His main objections is that there are few chinese communities in Milwaukee.

How about trading the rights of Kwame whose expiring contract will free a cap space of $ 8M next year for Yi. Yi is an offensive monster and he is ideal shooter in a triangle offense and one of the best players in the recent concluded Summer League. He will love LA, there are about 3 million chinese with three Chinatowns: LA, Monterey Park and Rowland Heights. Which team out there that can give you three Chinatowns?

gunner:

"i BET IF THEY ASK MELO WOULD HE CONSIDER LA AS A FUTURE DESTINATION, HE WOULD SAY "IF KOBE'S THERE. F-U"

Well, it looks like I'll have to nominate you for President of the Kobe Haters Club. Like I told KL, I was looking for an "F U Kobe" comment to get my vote, and you pulled through with flying colors. Plus, you're ALL CAPS style is a lot bolder and louder, and that's what we need from a leader of an organization whose sole purpose is to bash Kobe...You don't mind if KL is the VP, right?

Gino,

"Kwame, LO, Bynum next year's first round pick for JO, Foster and Ike Diogu..... Buss make it happen"

That's also a great news, Gino how did you get this rumor? or this is just an ESPN trade machine match ups. Foster & Diogu, I have to say goodbye to much loved LO.

Mamba:

I'm here...put me on the roll sheet!!!

I say the Lakes have one more move in them

Man, I can't believe how many people are just saying they want this ref thing to go away. That actually explains a lot of things that are happening in the USA right now.

This is a serious problem for the league. I've loved basketball for decades, but if they can't convince people that the refs aren't at least trying to be honest, there's no point to watching the games. None. you might as well go completely WWE with it, and that's not the game I grew up loving.

If Donaghy can actually name other refs or league reps in this, it'll just get worse and worse. There are a whole bunch of questions that need answering even if it's only the one ref? How did they not manage to spot something? Why did the league have to be told by the FBI that something was wrong with this guy? How many games did he blow?

Despite some of the blaring of the truly obnoxious Spurs fans, there's no doubt this has already cast a cloud on their title this year.

Sonny was right. This actually is the biggest story you've ever seen in basketball, and it's not even that close. But I can see where a scrimmage would be more important.

Ok, that last sentence was a lie.

Question for the Borthers K: assuming this guy is as dirty as everyone has been saying, what do you think the league should do? It sounds like they have fairly good procedures in place, but don't have people capable of analyzing the data properly.

If there's any good news coming out of the NBA ref scandal, it's in Marc Stein's ESPN.com column.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2947543

He says Stu Jackson may have to walk the gangplank for letting the Donaghy thing get out of hand. After all the ridiculous actions Jackson has taken against the players, not taking action against Donaghy with all the warning signs should absolutely cost Jackson his job.

Yeah, Melo is going to literally say "F-U"

F*****g grow up people.

Now I remember why I stopped reading this blog, because of the enormous amounts of idiots that post in it.

Is the blog back on? It's been typebad all day lol.

DFish would be an awesome spokesperson for anything really. Though he's gotten a bit politically correct throughout his stay in LA lol...but we still love him. Nice to see the national media is taking notice (outside of sports that is).

Edwin , I think Yi would be a good for us. The problem is the trade aspect...I don't see anyone they'll be willing to take from us (at least from those we're willing to give). But I think Milwaukee has themselves to blame in that they knew he didn't want to play for them (China didn't want him to play for them.)

Hal9000 - We Kobe haters are all charged up over ESPN's F-U to Kobe in the all-important "Who's Now" competition.

It really doesn't bother me at all if "Who's Now" has proven to be the end of the last shred of ESPN's credibility. What's important is that ESPN, through respected sports journalists such as Stuart Scott, Adam Sandler and the chick from the "Texas Chainsaw Massacre", has delivered the ultimate middle finger to the worst basketball player on the planet.

Makes Game 4 of the 2000 Finals seem like nothing. Take that Kobe lovers! You can just call Kobe "THE BIG WHO'S NOW LOSER"!

Gino,

I don't know man. LO, Bynum, and Kwame for JO, Foster, and Diogu? JO is obviously a great pick up, but my concerns are with Foster, and Diogu. Foster is a good to great rebounder, but has NO offensive game, and Diogu is an undersized 4. He has potential, but if we're gonna get potential why not keep Bynum? IDK I think we can get a better deal from them. I would like to see us get one of their young SF's either Williams, or Granger.

Rick Friedman,

Initially, it will be Stud Jackson who will absorb the heat being the immediate supervisor. We don't know yet the players he will involve plus more investigation for every name mentioned, I guess this would end the reign of David Stearns. It is a possibility that we might adopt the international rules in order to open the refereeing to other referees in the Euro Leagues.

Faith,

There has to be a strong negotiation with the Bucks and point out the rationale why they have to absorb Kwame's contract. If you lose him by him going to China and wait there for three more years, the the Bucks wasted their pick. Why not go with Kwame and add Sasha future 1st round draft picks to make it more attractive for Milwaukee? Once Yi recognize that LA is active in the negotiation, he will be very cooperative and a good teamwork of rejecting other offers except LA.

By opening lines with the Bucks, Lakers have a lot of things to gain so why not start the negotiation rather than waiting for KG, JO that may never happen.

Harry Yahoo,

Your not going to stop sports betting, "legitimate" or otherwise ever. Period. That's the reality. Given this reality, the idea, in a proactive way, is to keep it above ground and well regulated with meticulous and ongoing oversight. As you suggest, there are other preventative measures which may be useful.

Reactively, the thing to do is to track down every single individual who is complicit in any way and throw the book at him/her. The way it works in this context is that for every person who actually admits wrongdoing, there are probably dozens, if not hundreds or even thousands who find ways to benefit, and thus are complicit. As a former daily sportsbetter in Reno, I assure you that the difference between lobster and bologna is often times a mere 1/2 point.

Start by polygraphing each referee, and continue to do so for cause, or on an "at random" basis; much the same way insurance companies have forced many industries to drug test their employees. I know this is somewhat Draconian (and goes against my grain) but it, or other drastic measures may be the only way we can get a handle on things.

Sonnybelfast

what if we find out MJ was one of the players who fixed games?

You know he did have that whole, dad gambling death thing...

Edwin,

Aside from the fact that Milwaukee would be insane to make that trade (especially considering they're not a team with cap issues), I'm about 99% sure it doesn't work within the salary cap rules. I'd say 100% (it flunked the trade machine) except I don't know for certain how Yi's salary, if a contract was inked, would affect things.

AK

We're not in Kansas anymore.

We've been watching the Pro Wrestling version of basketball and we were doin' fine with it. We can't handle the truth, we were happy with our conspiracy theories. Now what? Clean it up? And how do we know that's been accomplished? We know it could happen again 'cause we were told it could never happen before.

It's over. Jim THorpe and Bobby Jones are dead and gone and we've got Mike Vick, Bonds and Donaghy. Don't despair, sports fans. It's still a beautiful game to watch even if most of the palyers are goin' through the motions for a paycheck and the outcome isn't always in favor of the better team. It's sport as entertainment and as such, even this entertains.

|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| OFFICIAL PRESIDENTIAL BALLOT |
| 2007-2008 KOBE HATERS CLUB |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

NOMINEES FOR PRESIDENT:

((1)) KL (also known as KLBeast, KLYeast)

Bio: KL's repuation as a Kobe Hater has made him a club favorite, and his creativity in finding ways to bash Kobe is second to none. He is also famous for coining the phrase "F-U Kobe".

((2)) GUNNER (also known as gunner5, gunner24)

Bio: Gunner's "all caps" style of hating has brought him a lot of attention, and his unwavering hatred has gained him many fans in the Anti-Kobe community. His tendency to drench Kobe supporters in Haterade has helped to elevate his status as one of the fiercest Kobe Haters around.

VOTERS:

All ballots must be in by 9:00PM PST on Thursday, July 25, 2007.
Please vote by indicating your preference in one post before the deadline.

Once the ballots have been counted, the winner will take office immediately and the loser will become vice president. In the case of a tie, the candidates will duel in a mud-wrestling competition. The candidate who comes out with the most mud on their face will be the winner. Good luck and may the best hater win.

Time for a reality check. Many in the blog have wondered about Chris Webber. He is an unrestricted free agent. When asked he has stated he will wait until later in the summer to make a decision. Why the Wait?

Webber has made it known for years that he would'nt mind playing here in LA. (Even back when he was still good) At this point in whats left of his career Webber wants to play for a championship. He thought he would have had a great chance last year but Cleveland had other ideas. This might be his last chance.

Webber has been watching the media circus here in LA just like everyone else. He is waiting to see how things shake out. If the FO makes a move for KG or JO it will be an indication that we are trying to win NOW. At that point I feel Webber would be very interested in signing on.

If we stay status quo, then Webber will probably look to better options such as Dallas or even returning to Detroit.

I am not sure what Webber has left but if we make any major deals we will need to fill out the roster. We could do worse. WHAT SAY YOU?

It is not about being a 'Hater' or being an 'Apologist'!!!!!!!!!!

It is about the truth!!!!

Truth is generally the best vindication against slander.
Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865), letter to Secretary of War Edwin Stanton, July 18, 1864

There are few nudities so objectionable as the naked truth.
Agnes Repplier (1855 - 1950)

Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
Andre Gide (1869 - 1951)

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788 - 1860)

Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Bible, John 8:32

Chase after truth like hell and you'll free yourself, even though you never touch its coat-tails. Clarence Darrow (1857 - 1938)

The public will believe anything, so long as it is not founded on truth.
Edith Sitwell (1887 - 1964)

Truth is the only safe ground to stand on.
Elizabeth Cady Stanton (1815 - 1902)

The truth is more important than the facts.
Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959)

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei (1564 - 1642)

The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear. Herbert Agar

As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. Josh Billings (1818 - 1885), 'Affurisms from Josh Billings: His Sayings,' 1865

Say not, 'I have found the truth,' but rather, 'I have found a truth.'
Kahlil Gibran (1883 - 1931)

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.
Lenin (1870 - 1924)

A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. Mark Twain (1835 - 1910), (attributed)

Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't.
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)

The history of our race, and each individual's experience, are sown thick with evidence that a truth is not hard to kill and that a lie told well is immortal. Mark Twain (1835 - 1910), Advice to Youth

Truth is more of a stranger than fiction.
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)

Truth sits upon the lips of dying men.
Matthew Arnold (1822 - 1888), 'Sohrab and Rustum,' 1853

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.
Niels Bohr (1885 - 1962)

The truth is rarely pure and never simple.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Importance of Being Earnest, 1895, Act I

Truth persuades by teaching, but does not teach by persuading.
Quintus Septimius Tertullianus (160 AD - 230 AD), Adversus Valentinianos

I have been truthful all along the way. The truth is more interesting, and if you tell the truth you never have to cover your tracks.
Real Live Preacher, RealLivePreacher.com Weblog, January 04, 2004

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (1859 - 1930), (Sherlock Holmes) The Sign of Four, 1890

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.
Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)

This does not make the authors of those narratives liars; it makes them servants of fallible human memory and perception.
Tom Bissell, Truth in Oxiana, 2004

The truth is always a compound of two half- truths, and you never reach it, because there is always something more to say.
Tom Stoppard (1937 - )

Love truth, and pardon error.
Voltaire (1694 - 1778)

Truth is truth To the end of reckoning.
William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616), "Measure for Measure", Act 5 scene 1

As you can see the truth has several meanings to different people. So people can believe what they like but you need to respect each other on this blog. Some choose not to, which is to their own detriment!!!!

He removes the greatest ornament of friendship, who takes away from it respect. Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC)

Respect yourself and others will respect you.
Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)

Respect a man, he will do the more.
James Howell

Civilization is a method of living, an attitude of equal respect for all men.
Jane Addams (1860 - 1935), Speech, Honolulu (1933)

The way to procure insults is to submit to them: a man meets with no more respect than he exacts.
William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

That you may retain your self-respect, it is better to displease the people by doing what you know is right, than to temporarily please them by doing what you know is wrong. William J. H. Boetcker

So please keep the insults to a minimum!!!!

I just hope the truth comes out in this FBI investigation!!
I want to know if any other officials or players were involved.

Aaarrrhhhh!!

Angry_Laker

I heard that the league didn't know anything until the feds told them. At that point, under watchful eye, the ref would be given enough time and rope to hang himself. This is the same MO casinos use to nail thiefs and cheats, and it works.

The question of the day was raised by Michael A: "Why did the league have to be told by the FBI that something was wrong with this guy?
In a casino, anyone -who should have known- is logically suspect as well. NBA complicity? Would one automatically rule that out?

I want to know who the ref was working for. Most importantly, who did the ref relay information to? And who did they relay it to, and so on.
By definition, the act is not isolated.

Crooked refs themselves would be the last to know about other crooked refs.

Sonnybelfast

Jman449, for your bravery in the field of battle, you have been awarded the position of Treasurer in the Kobe Haters Club. You are hereby tasked with gathering the funds required to spread the hatred of Kobe across the globe. Congratulations on your promotion and keep up the good work.

--And don't forget to vote in the first ever Kobe Haters Club Presidential Election! The deadline is Thursday at 9:00 PM PST.

Out the door. See ya'll in a couple of days. Got a date with a llama.

Edwin,

Something I completely Agree with.

The Lakers could trade Kwame for Yi Jilian in some weird deal, similar to the JRich for Brandan Wright trade, or the Kurt Thomas for draft picks deal.

I mean the Bucks could use another inside presence, and looks like Yi wont show up.

Yi would certainly show up with the Lakers..and I believe actually bring something to prove. And we'll get all the Chinese girls on his jock and he'll be fine.

I totally agree with Michael A's post "Man, I can't believe how many people are just saying they want this ref thing to go away."

Despite David Stern's statement that Donaghy appears to have acted alone, there's been more than one suggestion that that is far from the case:

"There are reports that Tim Donaghy is not only going to flip on his mob buddies - which will make that little spat with his neighbors a few years ago seem like backyard badminton - but he's allegedly got the goods on some other refs and some players as well. None of that has been substantiated, and the FBI will take its sweet time in sorting it out."
---Philadelphia Inquirer

And where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

Worse, a former NBA ref said on MSNBC tonight, that Donaghy was a known hothead and worst of all a "loner." Loner is how almost every criminal has been described by people who knew them in interviews after the crime was committed. It's part of the classic criminal profile.

Let's also call the NBA out on one more quite obvious fact. At best the refereeing is uneven; at worst it is horrible in general. These refs are like bouncers in a nightclub. They make a lot of calls for one reason: THEY CAN.

In the past, Stern has vociferously defended his refs come hell or high water. In part, that's perhaps why Donaghy thought he could get away with it. What is required going forward is the absolute toughest scrutiny of play calling on all levels. The owners should demand it, the players union should demand it, and we as fans should demand it.

I watched some Coby Karl highlights and he looked good. Is he the next Steve Nash?

Colorado loves the Lakers!

Michael A -

I think it was you that I was talking with yesterday about the Team USA lineup. Just wanted to say, it looks like you were right about my proposed lineup. Battier seems to be on his way out (in my starting 5) and Krzhvowhadsuyzouxchsky seemed to think Lebronze (my bench #11) was the best player on the white team, since he gave him the final shot (which he missed). Am I smarter than the coach on this? Probably not. I took a shot at it and missed. Oh, well.

On the plus side for the USA, Durant is going to be a great player. He stepped in and stepped up against top-notch pro competition who were all competing for a spot and for bragging rights.

Even though KL's hating has given me the most grief, I have to vote for gunner as president because he consistently takes any positive thng anyone says about Kobe and rips it to pieces... So, my vote is for gunner.

TALLY:

KL : 0
GUNNER: 1

If you are the USA coach...

Do you bring from the bench... Carmelo, Lebron or Kobe?

My proposed starting line up.

Kidd, Kobe, Carmelo, Bosh, Howard.

Bench - second unit....Lebron, Miller, Billups, Amare, Chandler.

If Lebron doesn't like it....don't play him. Ultimately USA coaches can send that dubious-king to junglelandia, maybe there he can learn where is his real place apart from the clownesque ESpy show award or that Saturday Nigth live acting saga..

Thank you Lake Show, Yi will really be a good addition. What is the best way to get him?

According to AK the Kwame's trade may not work. That's where we need creativity here. How can we make it work in our favor? Of course, Milwaukee will not be asking LO, Bynum and Kwame in exchange of Yi. How come other teams could create ways to trade their players? Why is it with Lakers we're always on a dead end, nothing is possible with our sorry roster? Are we really in that bad shape? This is my point in the other thread, if there are ideas out there, as a blog let's explore it and present a position paper to Mitch and Buss Family. We're just helping the Lakers to get through from this crisis. We cannot rely only Fisher and Crittenton practically we're the same team in the last two years. The major difference here is that Kobe has been demotivated and the addition of Fisher may not be enough. There got to be a way.

Now supposing you're the Milwaukee Bucks and Yi says: you have to trade me with the Lakers or else I will just stay in China until my draft rights expires, what will they get in return? If they Kwame, they have strong presence in the middle and at the end of the season, if they don't need a cap space, they added another $ 8M to entice a Superstar.

Jman449...

I re-read your post and now I realize you were just being sarcastic. I'm sorry, but I'll have to take the position of Treasurer of the Kobe-Haters Club away from you. You can still vote, though. Voting is open to all Lakers fans, whether they be Kobe haters, Kobe apologists or sincerely open-minded people.

sonnybelfast,
It's really great to see you posting. I was worried you might have slipped on a cow patty and swallowed your bell. I've heard numerous Kings fans found those darn cow bells were hard to pass after accidentally swallowing them back in 2002. Try using a rope and hanging yours around your neck, that way if you swallow it you can always pull it right back out the same orifice. lol

Now...

If the Lakers and Kobe haters really want to trade Kobe, now is the best time to do it. His value is higher now than ever, after the whole country witnessed another one of his heroics and herculean "one man show", last Sunday.

All the NBA players looked like timid college players or highschoolers compared to the ferocity, the focus, the charisma of that Kobe-man.

Carmelo was one more time convinced that Kobe is miles apart from the crow, miles apart in abilitiy, showmanship and dominance of a game.

He wasn't playing again inferior players, it was again "the cream of the creme ". To be able to impose his will with three consecutive and well contested shots, is just ...

Well, let's save the accolades because more of the same will come...

Michael A,
Unless the ref issue turns out to have a bunch more refs involved, it is not going to have much of an effect. The NBA will start monitoring things more closely, as will Las Vegas, which will make it harder to get away with anything.People will still watch, and will still go to the games. They will be more suspicious anytime a call goes against their team, but the fans will still watch. This has happened several times with overseas soccer over the past 20 years, with no lasting effect on the fans.

Edwin,

You're missing a huge point. Milwaukee doesn't have cap issues, so an expiring contract is of little enticement to them (especially since convincing free agents to play there is next to impossible, anyway). And they already have Andrew Bogut at center, so the notion of moving him out of position for one year to get Kwame and his expiring contract seems pointless.

Beyond that, here's a huge reason I can't picture Lenny Harris being particularly jazzed by your proposal (Kwame, Sasha, draft pick). Would you wanna be the one to tell fans, "So here's the deal. We used a #6 pick on a guy who kept insisting he won't play here, then turned that pick into a backup center and a 3rd string shooting guard with expiring contracts we don't need and a draft pick that, unless the Lakers absolutely collapse, will be lower than the one we wasted on Yi." I'll go out on a limb and guess the answer is no.

If Milwaukee's convinced Yi won't sign, I imagine they'd trade him for some actual talent. Maybe another rookie on a team Yi likes. But outside of Yi insisting on L.A. and L.A. only (and even then, who says he can't go to the Clips), I don't see any scenario where the Lakers can dictate terms in such one-sided fashion.

AK

Aloha Edwin

I am not sure about Webber. Will we get the guy that looked O.K earlier in the year or the guy that ran out of gas toword the end of the season and in the playoffs. I think if we went after Webber it would signal that we are still working on another trade for one or more of our bigs. If we did get him you would probably have to limit his minutes to around 20 per game and he has become somewhat of a defensive liability the last couple of years. While I would welcome another vet to the roster, I am not sure if he has enough gas left in his tank to be the guy I would go after. But that said, if we could get him for a year at the the remaining MLE money, that wouldnt be a bad gamble. Honestly from all that I have read, this will be the team that we will start the season with. Now the trade deadline could bring more moves but In a way, it may not be bad seeing how the kids do to start the season.

As for your Yi deal, that would be a great move bringing him in but I dont know if we have what the Bucks would want. If they take Kwame, great but I dont know who else we could include to sweeten the deal, theyalready have a young point guard. And if he does go on the trading block there are several teams that could offer more, unless the Chinese goverment insists on the Lakers. Think Mitch knows anyone in the Chinese goverment?

MH

Edwin,
FIrst of all, there is no money to sign Webber. Secondly, on defense he isn't better than any of the players you mentioned except maybe for Cook. Didn't you see him last season? And now he is a year older and slower.

Reality Check Time,

I also agree with your observation that C-Webb will go for a team that will compete for the Finals. He wants to get a ring. So they way to Chris heart is by acquiring JO or KG. At this point in time, if there is any interest from F/O of Pacers or Minny, they could have moved their Superstars. If they move them, Lakers is getting farther from competition we lack the "player image" or values to attract these teams. I just believe KG will not be traded, he will just opt out next year. Bird will never agree on separating Bynum and LO, he wants both plus Troy Murphy. Again, we're in a dead end with that deal.

Reality Check, if Magic Johnson and PJ talks to Webber to be followed up by Kobe assuring him that this is a place where he can prosper rather than retiring, I think he might agree to play in front of Hollywood Stars. That was his long time dream when Tyra Banks was his girlfriend. To give him importance, the old man will invite him to a dinner at Beverly Hills, I think we have a chance of getting C-Webb with these personalities getting involved.

The "what now show " of Espn is a desperate intent from the station to put some sports themes over the table.

Beckam, the WNBA, or the Donaghey drama can't bring big audience, so they need this humiliating farse to keep getting some comercials to pay all those parasits and dubious columnists paychecks.

Kobe doesn't need this farse. Let the lebrones, the A-rods or the Saratovas get the plaques. If they want to promote Lebron as the last coke in a dessert and give him another 3 awards for playing that well in just one game of the CLEVELAND-Detroit series, fine.

He should be the most condecorated king without a conquered throne.

Edwin,
I also like the idea of trading for Yi . I think he has an assigned automatic dollar value based on where he was drafted. Probably around $4 million, but that's just a guess. I think we would have to send an equivilant salary and probably at least 1 unprotected 1st round pick, or maybe 2 protected 1st. There are zero dollars assesd to future draft picks in a trade. I doubt we get him on the cheap unless he specifically says this is the only place he'll play.

It would be a gamble to go after him for several reasons. Mainly I think Kobe might become extremely upset if we were to trade assets for another really young, but potentially talented player. I'm sure he wants help now. Yi probabally would not be a good player to aquire and use as a chip for KG because if he won't go to the Bucks, why would he go to the Wolves?

Where do you get your shrooms Jorenema?

AK,

I don't know perhaps I was born to be a salesman. The transaction begins when a customer says: "no way".

The point here is that we have a strong Chinese community in LA, Eventhough there are draft rights, you cannot force a player who does not want to play with your team. If Milwaukee says I like the offer of Minny to get KG, Yi might say what made you think I want to play with few thousand of Chinese in Minneapolis? He could make it also difficult to the Bucks.

You mentioned Clippers, do they know Clippers in China? In the Orient, they go with the brand not just the NBA name. Guanzhou area is becoming a cosmopolitan capital in the world, they have a strong connections with the San Gabriel Chinese community than any parts of the United States. And if Yi plays with the Lakers, Jerry Buss will multiply his revenues 2X with the new world market.

AK. don't just say NO, think some more, there got to be a way. Lakers Blog will be in mandarin version too. haha!

Well, if nothing happens, at least we tried.

The Lakers could trade Kwame for Yi Jilian in some weird deal, similar to the JRich for Brandan Wright trade, or the Kurt Thomas for draft picks deal.

------

In both of those cases the team being traded to had salary cap space, so
they could take on the extra salary. Milwaukee, on the other hand, is over
the salary cap, so the least they could give back for Kwame would be a
little over 7 million in salary.

Also, Yi (a young guy with nothing but upside) is more valuable to them
than Kwame (who has consistently shown himself to be a below average
NBA player). They could use another p