All quiet on the Western front ... a little too quiet for some
Derek Fisher officially met the media Friday afternoon, once again a Laker. But given how things have gone this summer, Kobe Bryant again dominated conversation across the hoops universe (you know, aside from the allegations that a referee had helped fix games, calling into question the integrity of an entire professional sport). Kobe took no steps Friday to clear up the whole Lakers-or-no-Lakers question when he met the media as a member of USA Basketball. He admitted his Grand Radio Tour sent mixed signals, but feels this isn't the time to clarify his position, even when given a few cracks at it by an old friend. Still, he said lots of nice things ... just not the nice thing.
We've all spent a lot of time trying to decode the tea leaves on this one, and even Fish said people shouldn't read too much into his return to the Lakers, at least as it relates to Kobe. At this point, unless the answer is, "I'm committed to staying in L.A. and trust management to do the right things," he's probably better staying mum on the subject. By doing so, it'll continue to fuel speculation that he wants out, but that can't be avoided, especially if Kobe's still harboring some issues with the folks in El Segundo. He is right that to turn the USA Basketball season into a Laker Circus isn't fair. And even if Kobe does say he wants to stay, there's an element of distraction, too. "Are you happy with Mitch? Can this group win a championship? Do you still want Jerry West?" And so on and so forth.
All of this is a consequence of how things went down this summer. That Kobe repeatedly said he wished things had gone down differently is sticking to the plan of keeping things in-house is a positive sign. It might cause the rest of us to wonder out loud, but clearly it's better than the media-frenzied alternative. The more public this spat becomes, the worse it is for everyone.
But since all that's left is for us to speculate ... let's do it. I wonder if Kobe really knows what he wants. I doubt he's gained a lot more trust of management, specifically that a championship-caliber team can be assembled around him quickly. On the other hand, he clearly understands the fallout from everything that went down didn't make him look good, and he is trying to repair the damage. And I think Kobe understands the team isn't going to move him. So that leaves a holdout come training camp, and to start talking about that with the media in mid-July is a horrible idea.
Personally, I think he'll be there. With bells on? I have no idea. That he hasn't come out and said he'll be a Laker in October certainly makes you wonder what he wants. Or if he knows.
-- BK
Time for a reality check. Last year most of the bloggers were signing up for a 55 win bandwagon. I have a new 55 bandwagon I hope a few players will sign up for.
Attention: Kwame, Lamar, Chris amd Vlad.....Please sign up for the "I promise to play at least 55 games this season bandwagon."
The big question going into next season is how much we are going to get out of any of these players. Hell, Lamar and Kwame probably will have to start the season on the disabled list. I never heard if Vlad found time between snowboarding trips to have his hand worked on. Chris's rehabilitation was so impressive that about six teams rejected him.
If we are healthy we can compete. Looking back two years ago we were making progress. The injuries ruined any chance for growth last year. This year, I hope Gary Vitti is more like the Maytag repairman. WHAT SAY YOU?
Posted by: reality check time | July 21, 2007 at 10:18 PM
""You don't give away a superstar even if he acts human once in awhile."
IF THAT WAS TRUE, WE WOULD STILL HAVE SHAQ HERE AND WE WOULD BE CHASING OUR 5TH OR 6TH NBA TITLE IN THE 2000 DYNASTY. "
If it were only true that all Shaq did was say some stupid things in public
(which he did). That's not why Shaq is gone. Shaq is gone because he
wanted more money than the owner was willing to pay.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 21, 2007 at 10:27 PM
"IF YOU CONSIDER PLAYING WITH THE PLAYERS IN AN ALLSTAR GAME EVIDENCE OF KNOWING THEIR STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES, THEN THAT SHOULD TELL US KOBE IS ABOUT TO SHOOT THE BALL AND HOG AS MUCH AS HE DID IN THE ALLSTAR GAME.
I GUESS THAT TELLS US HE HAS NO FAITH IN HIS TEAMMATE ON TEAM USA."
So which are you, his barber or his wife? You seem to know SOOO much
about what Kobe's thinking and how he's going to act, you must be one or
the other. Vanessa? Is that you?
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 21, 2007 at 10:29 PM
What is the DEAL with sonnybelfast posting in the blogs of other teams?! Isn't he a Kings fan?
E
Posted by: Emma | July 21, 2007 at 10:31 PM
gunnner:
"(Jason Kidd) TAKES AN AVERAGE NETS TEAM EVERY YEAR AT LEAST TO THE SECOND OR THIRD ROUND.
WHILE OLD KOBIATCH KEEPS US WATCHING SCORING TITLES."
Wait as sec... doesn't Kidd play with Vince Carter and Richard Jefferson? Yes, he makes them better, but they are great players to begin with. Plus, he's a point guard. It's his job to get them the ball.
It's funny how everyone who keeps calling Kobe a ballhog seems to forget that he started off last season trying to be more of a facilitator. His pass-first mentality helped the Lakers do well in the first half of the season. Even when half the team got injured and the Lakers got mired in 6 and 7 game losing streaks, Kobe still tried to get his teammates involved... and what did the sportswriters, fans and coaches say? "Stop passing the ball and shoot!" So, he went on his 50-point scroing binge and helped the Lakers to a five game winning streak. His goal wasn't to win scoring titles; it was to win basketball games.
Posted by: hal9000 | July 21, 2007 at 10:48 PM
Edwin Gueco,
"never joined trade talks or even metioned in "hoops rumors for Gerald Wallace,... "
Actually, there was a rumor last week about a 3-way trade that didn't quite
go through - Lamar to New Jersey, Jefferson to Charlotte, and sign & trade
Wallace (plus presumably someone else to match salary) to the Lakers.
For the most part I share your frustration. I think Mitch did a good job
shoring up the PG position, but then he got so mesmerized by the KG
and JO potential trades that he hasn't bothered to try to work any
smaller trades. O r perhaps he has, but has been reluctant to pull the
trigger on them if they give up a player that would be needed to make
the KG trade work, in the tiny chance that he can get it to work.
One of the problems is that Kobe's rant has set peoples expectations for
what Mitch should bring in very high. They want someone like KG or
JO or at least Ron Artest. There aren't many players of that caliber
that are actually available for trade, and the teams that have them want
more than their actual value for them.
I sort of liken it to going to a used CD store. If you go there with a list of
3 CDs that you want, and you don't want anything else, you're likely to
go home empty handed. On the other hand, if you go in looking for
broad categories of what you want, then you're almost certain to find
something, even if it's not on the tip top of your wish list.
Note that the summer isn't over. The fact that the Wallace trade was
rumored shows that Mitch is trying to work some other angles now that
KG is probably staying with the Timber-pups at least for the start of the
season.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 21, 2007 at 10:51 PM
One thing surprises me in this absurd "debate". The anti-Kobe true believers seem to live on the dogma that with Shaq we had a championship team. Doesn't anyone remember the deep frustration of 2003 (eliminated by the Spurs) and the humiliation of 2004, with the new Dream Team guaranteed to dominate the universe? The formula for championships died in 2003 and Shaq's attitude of entitlement was proving to be increasingly counter-productive.
Whatever Kobe did or didn't do to persuade Shaq to leave cannot be interpreted as the breaking up of a champion. Two years of failure meant that something had to be changed.
My suggestion for the various haters on the list is to start every post with a tock phrase about Kobe as Satan incarnate so we know who they are (apparently hating Kobe is a major factor in their sense of their own identity) and then to talk about basketball issues, or -- when appropriate -- haiku or iambic pentameter or whatever. That may be a way of keeping the blog relatively rational and civilized.
Posted by: Tsphere | July 21, 2007 at 10:53 PM
"What is this blog going to do when it is 50/50? Make like a amoeba and split? Or worse yet, how about 60/40 against the Saint. Will you then shun all Kobe supporters?"
What makes you think I'll be one of Kobe's supporters at that point? So
far, all Kobe has done is talk. And his talk was triggered by someone from
the Lakers front office (likely Jim Buss, as I can't see anyone else saying it)
dissing him to the media. If he were to do something damaging to the
team, like sitting out or faking an injury so he wouldn't have to play, then I
will be one of the louder voices shouting to trade him.
When he demanded a trade earlier, I was one of the people posting
prospective trades with various teams. If the Lakers had been willing to
trade him, and if he'd have opened up the set of teams he'd be willing to
go to, the Lakers might have been able to get a couple of good young
players and lottery pick or two. That would have made them worse next
year, but if they got the right young players back, it might have lifted the
Lakers to championship sooner than staying with Kobe.
On the other hand, it's a classic case of a "bird in the hand". Kobe is a
guaranteed superstar. If you trade him for Deng and Gordon + parts (for
example), it's possible that neither Deng NOR Gordon will ever turn out to
be an all-star level player, and that the Lakers will be even further back on
the rebuilding path. It's easier to build around one superstar than to build
around no superstars.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 21, 2007 at 11:01 PM
I DON'T THINK JORDAN WOULD HAVE ACT A DAMN FOOL IN THE MEDIA IF HE WON FIVE RINGS OR NOT. I BELIEVE IT TOOK JORDAN 8 OR 9 YEARS BEFORE HE WON HIS FIRST TITLE. WAS HE ACTING LIKE A DAMN FOOL IN THE MEDIA BEFORE THEN?
Actually, Michael Jordan was brilliantly calculated with the media. Someone
(I forget who) was once passing a petition around to criticize China for
human rights violations. All the players were signing it, but when he asked
Michael to sign it, Jordan turned him down and said, "They buy sneakers in
China."
What's funny is, the media is always complaining about how most players
only ever give canned phrases about whatever happens. So when Kobe
breaks that mold and actually says what he feels, they all become hyper
critical of him. Expect to hear responses like "this was a team effort"
and "We were just doing what coach told us to do" for the next few
years, because Kobe has demonstrated what happens when you say
what you really feel.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 21, 2007 at 11:11 PM
tick tock ... tick tock
in 24 months his legs will be gone then this blog will have to talk about ways to get rid of BallHog24 and hopefully get something of value in return. I've set my yahoo reminder ...
only then will the Lakers have a chance to return to form.
Posted by: Luigi | July 21, 2007 at 11:16 PM
Tsphere,
To add further to what you say about Shaq, he was asking more than $ 30M for a body that is riddled with too much pounds and athritic toe. He could not complete an 82 game season. With Miami Heat, he reduced his price to $ 20M for 5 years. If they can only trade him at this time, they would have done so with the lower draft picks. He became slower and lazy to get on picks, became choosy on what games to play. If Shaq was on this team today, it could have been worst. We could not even afford a scrappy player like Walton to play with the Lakers. We can pay only shaq and Kobe and 13 D' Leagues players and we're still paying luxury taxes.
Trading him was the best deal at that time, but TRADING HIM ABRUPTLY with fiery exchange of insults on the media was a wrong move. Of course, it has been said we never got back his WORTH with the players that replaced him and his $ 28M contract was spread with this scrappy roster.
On Kobe, of course, he is not a perfect role model for good behavior but he still remains the ONLY life blood of this Lakers. He attracts revenue, he brings hope for this team but it is an uphill challenge for him, Fisher and LO to lead this team on the next tier of best of three in the West. What we lack in skills, we should devote hardwork and perseverance in preparing the individuals as battle ready when they confront the Goliaths. It's not impossible but there's no time for easygoing, over confidence, nite clubbing during gamedays here and there, appearing at the opening of furniture stores, promoting car dealers. bookstores etc. that's really silly in investing time as a NBA professional. Improve on oneself, invest on YOU as a product by going to the gym and start with free throws, hire a personal coach from past NBA players to critique your skills (that's what Tiger Woods did to become a better golfer.)
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 21, 2007 at 11:41 PM
"If the Lakers come back healthy this year--and stay healthy--this is one of the top ten teams in the NBA. I believe this. I really do."
YOU MUST BE EJECTING CRACK TODAY. BY MAKING NO LEGITIMATE MOVES THIS SUMMER, LAKERS HAS MOVED DOWN TO ABOUT 10-12 BEST IN THE WEST.
---------------------------------------------------------
Nope. I think Wes is right. Before all the injuries last year, the Lakers were
in the top 5 or 6 in the league. There are teams that improved more than
the Lakers, but several in the west got worse in the short term.
Portland and Seattle trading away starters to get more youth will likely
make them worse next year, not better. 3 years from now, they could be
formidable, but not next year. Golden State also traded away a starter
for a rookie who may not have as much impact for a year or two.
Denver switched starting PGs from Steve Blake to Chucky Atkins. Do you
think Chucky's gonna lead them to the top? Phoenix's moves were more
about saving money than improving, but they stayed above the Lakers.
Dallas and San Antonio stayed ahead by standing pat. The Clippers,
Kings, and Hornets didn't improve enough to leapfrog the Lakers.
I'd say in the Western Conference, if the Lakers stay healthy (and that's
a big if), they're in the second tier - along with Utah, Houston, and Denver.
The top tier is Phoenix, Dallas, and San Antonio. Everyone else is duking
it out for the 8 seed. So I'd say the Lakers could finish anywhere from
the 4 seed to the 7 seed.
In the East, Miami will be worse (unless they draw some players we
haven't heard about yet). Chicago might be a bit better. Cleveland will
be about the same. Detroit will be better. I'd say between 3 and 5 teams
will likely have better records than the Lakers.
Posted by: Long Time Laker Fan | July 21, 2007 at 11:41 PM
Mitchell, Craig W. Faith,
I just got back to the computer. Thanks for the positive vibes. I was just frustrated by what sometimes feels like a mountain of hate. Well, I'm taking your advice,scolling to the bottom of the post, and if it is a known hater, I just move on. K-Brothers, no disrespect was meant. Everybody knws you have the most active Laker blog. But sometimes I just need a little break.
Edwin, i respect your point of view. Always interesting stuff.
Jorema, great post. I don't trust Phil either, but he's the best coach avaiilable, so we have to make the best of itl. You just have to keep him in front of you. (good D)
Someone asked was TJ Simers a hater because he asked Kobe tough questions. Of course not. TJ doesn't like Kobe and I don't think he tries to hide it. His articles are very anti-Kobe, have been for as long as I can remember. It wasn't the questions, but the cynicism and sarcastic nature in which he editorialized. That's just TJ.
Its late, got to go to church in the morning.
Posted by: tellitlikeitis | July 22, 2007 at 12:04 AM
Long Time Laker Fan,
If we get G. Wallace but lost LO, I think it is a wash isn't it? If that's is the case, we can't do anything every move is stalemate. We fell below expectations from other managers, they are always looking for Butler for Kwame trade or Lakers absorb a Brian Grant type of deals, our roster was hopeless when it comes to trading.
During the time of Jerry West, we don't any blog. Nobody was suggesting him the players here are available, the comment of sportswriters through links, the bloggers in Europe and Asia giving us tidbits of info, there is just too much information and scouting today. How come we cannot come up with great ideas in getting the right players? Agai, we always use the Spurs and Suns as example, how come they can get good foreign players when they over the cap too. Are they too chicken to make the move on small fries like Cook and Sasha or got drown with too much information so they refuse to make any moves? If we have gotten Navarro or a good Center in exchange of our small fries that's one way of improving this team. I guess we love to refrigerate these China eggs and reserve them for the next Chinese New Year.
Lastly, you said that Lakers are on the next tier, I think we can be in top three if they all show up and bring to the court the hidden talents that they have and the very reason why they were tapped to play with this team?
Vlad, if you could only give the Lakers the type of shooting you've got when you were with Sonics and Clips, we'll be a threat.
Sasha. if you can only be consistent with your shooting and confidence with yourself on going to the rim and dunk the ball then we have a chance.
Cook, if you could use your 6'10" body in blocking power forwards without getting fouls and could move your feet like a flashy PG, we'll be a threat.
Kwame, if you could make those mid jump shots and regain the confidence of Kobe just like in Game 3 of the playoffs, we'll be the enfant terrible out there. We need your total presence in the post.
Walton, if you will just attack the post rather than passing the ball, make those freebies, avoid those traveling calls and play D, we'll be in contention
Farmar, if you can only connect those shots and avoid fancy dribbling and have that confidence as a court general during your Bruin Days, we'll be there. We only ask you to play the best just for15 minutes a night.
Bynum, if you can stay three quarters w/o a single foul grab all rebounds as though you're Ron Turiaf we'll be competing at the end of every game.
If and only if, that's we're all hoping from this team, making the impossible possible by having that PRIDE IN WEARING THE PURPLE AND GOLD, we'll be in the final 2 in the West.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 22, 2007 at 12:35 AM
Mark Madsen take about Kobe Bryant: One more of the mini-dinasty spike out.
"Mark Madsen was asked about being a teammate of Kobe Bryant's and Shaquille O'Neal's while with the Los Angeles Lakers.
"Kobe is one of the most talented and intense individuals I've ever played with," Madsen said. "He had high expectations for everyone on our team.
"If you weren't ready to play or your mind was somewhere else, he would let you know about it right away ... Kobe pushed me harder. I played some of my best games because of that when we were teammates."
And Shaq? "He was one of the most talented people I've ever played with. People see him dunk all the time, but they don't realize that he's got some nice touch and he's very athletic. Playing with him was a good experience."
http://www.sctimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070720/SPORTS/107190059/1002
Posted by: jorema | July 22, 2007 at 01:14 AM
Tsphere
"Shaq's attitude of entitlement was proving to be increasingly counter-productive."
I BELIEVE YOU MEAN KOBIATCH PURSUIT OF TRYING TO BE FINALS MVP IN 2004 BACKSLIDE TO 4-1 BEATDOWN BY THE PISTONS.
Posted by: Gunner | July 22, 2007 at 02:54 AM
Don't waste your time on haters!!!
Why do people waste you time responding to people who will never change their opinions and continue to spew their hate. You should really discuss lakers basketball & basketball issues with like minded people. Those who are not going constantly insult you if, you do not agree with them.
Anyway most of these haters have not got any basketball knowledge and just like winding people up. All you have to do is just scroll down!!!
The big topic is the ref scandal. This ref who is under investigation gave 39 fouls to New York and only 8 to Miami in one game. No wonder Pat was pissed enough to get tossed. What gets me angry, if the FBI had known about this for sometime, why did they not inform the NBA, does that mean fans and gamblers will get their money back for watching a game thrown by the ref!!!!
Lets see what Stern will do now!!!
Aaarrrhhhh!!
Angry_Laker
Posted by: Angry_Laker | July 22, 2007 at 03:27 AM
Tellitlikeitis, just scroll down posts and look at the names under. If from those infamous haters, just ignore them.
Edwin Gueco, well said. The blog should focus more on how to improve the team, to be back on the top.
Look forward to Team USA success for now.
Posted by: gdchild | July 22, 2007 at 03:56 AM
TJ Simers is simply a jerk, typical media prick.
Posted by: gdchild | July 22, 2007 at 04:01 AM
"KOBIATCH DON'T EVEN KNOW HIS OWN LA TEAM STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES. IF HE DID, WE WOULDN'T BE GETTING KNOCKED OUT OF THE FIRST ROUND FOR THE LAST TWO SEASONS."
and what do you make of the MIAMI HEAT who has ALL STAR starting five and yet was sweep in the FIRST ROUND?
EVERYBODY here knows our team lacks the talent to compete with the teams here in the WEST and yet we made it to the playoffs the last 2 years.
If what you say is true, then what do you make of the MAVS and Nowitzki?
GROW UP!
GO Lakers!
Posted by: dice8up | July 22, 2007 at 04:21 AM
Confucius says:
As Laker news get slightly better
As optimism gradually overshadows controversy
Obsessed Kobe-bashers with nothing good to put in
Are really not Laker fans but envious outsiders.
Posted by: Confucius_vs_Infiltrators | July 22, 2007 at 05:29 AM
I don't care about Kobe any more or where he goes.
He bores me at this point in his career. He's not good enough to get the Lakers past the first round and he's not smart enough to hardly ever do the right thing.
We've already seen the best Kobe has to offer and it's all down hill for him from here.
The only thing more lame and cringeworthy than watching Mr. Lower Marion continue to devalue the Lakers legend is having to see how incredibly stupid so many fans are. I guess being a Laker fan today means going the 100% Paris Hilton route.
No class and no more rings.
Posted by: Laker Scoop | July 22, 2007 at 05:37 AM
tellitlikeitis - I FEEL EVERY WORD!
Posted by: lakersrydeordie | July 22, 2007 at 05:37 AM
hello!!! shaq fu is not here anymore, MJ is an owner now, dont debate on things thats history already... try on discusing the current roster please...
even kobe admitted that the way it came out was shameful, lets leave at that and move on...
how can you love the lakers if you hate 1 or majority of its players? if you dont like these guys then transfer your attention to other teams...
KOBE didnt enter this league to win sportmanship awards, he's a baller... Only winning is his agenda...
Posted by: juanman888 | July 22, 2007 at 05:38 AM
jason kidd have a vince carter and a richard jeferson to dish the ball to in a UP FOR GRABS CONFERENCE but didnt reach the semis!!!
what can he add to the lakers when all he have is KOBE in a TIGHT WESTERN CONFERENCE???
Nice move by the FO not to deal BYNUM and kept him for a trade to land a much more worthy player to play alongside KOBE...
LAKERS FAN FROM ASIA
Posted by: juanman888 | July 22, 2007 at 05:47 AM
Edwin Gueco,
Be careful complimenting the Suns. I suspect they may be the team that falls of the highest rung - either this year or next. They signed Boris Diaw to that huge contract and he hasn't held up his end (sound familiar). This has really hurt their ability to sign new talent as they are now near the luxury tax - the real bogey man in the NBA. Combine this with the fact that they are giving up draft choices left and right to avoid paying rookies that can't produce for a couple of years and you have a prescription for a disaster down the road.
Posted by: Craig W. | July 22, 2007 at 07:28 AM
My Starting 5
With apologies to T-Mobile and All-Tel, here's my favorite 5 to be the starting line-up:
Kobe, Fish, Walton, Odom, Mihm.
Why? This is a mature, confident group who knows the offense. This unit is capable of establishing the pace at the start of the first and second halves, and the ability to close out a game. The individual weaknesses have all been well established on this blog, but these guys all know how to play together. If you look to San Antonio and Detroit, these teams are greater than the sum of their parts in part because of stability. Allow me to posit that stability was a big factor in the Lakers early success last season, prior to the injury epidemic.
The second key will be for Phil to establish the bench rotation. He is likely to continue alternately resting Lamar and Kobe, so that at least one of them is on the floor most of the time. Hard to argue with this premise.
As much as he might prefer to start, Bynum has a better shot at establishing his game coming off the bench. He folded under pressure last season, and he can still get his 20 minutes coming off the bench. Mihm often gets in foul trouble early, but he provides a more commanding presence as a starter.
Everyone else will have to duke it out for the right to be first off the bench. I give an early advantage to Ronny who brings the energy PJ always looks for in the second unit. Also, I'd prefer to velcro Cook and Sasha's uniforms so that they never leave the bench.
I'd also like to suggest that J-Crit might become the best option to take Kobe's role when the star gets a rest. That's usually 10 minutes a game, or so, and he can still compete for his other minutes as a PG.
This still leaves a lot of trade bait. While there was no demand for our spare parts in the off-season, individual values will go up as players on other teams go down with injuries. And later, as other teams realize that draft picks become more important than veteran players, other opportunities may develop. That open 15th roster slot could be filled with a difference-maker down the stretch.
Take heart, Laker fans. Even with Deavon George on the roster, our team still got to hoist the trophy and warrant a parade.
OK, fellow bloggers. Take my challenge. Tell me why this plan works or doesn't work for you.
Posted by: Rick Friedman | July 22, 2007 at 09:08 AM
Angry Laker,
It's unbelieveable. I've posted 3 times about the ref scandal. The entire NBA brand is under attack and this blog has become a chat room volleying the idea that Kobe is or isn't a good basketball player / teammate back and forth.
The scandal has hurt the game when the game was already floundering. It will further diminish market share, TV revenue, and other ripples that spread out and turn into waves as testimony reveals new facts. The sportswriters think it's a big story, just not anyone here.
OK, back to Kobe sucks or doesn't...
Posted by: Vman | July 22, 2007 at 09:38 AM
AK,
Now that there is definitive proof that games are fixed, the Lakers may get the calls that they deserve. It was quite interesting how Bill Simmons mentions that superstars like Wade, Lebron, and Arenas get superstar calls. Excluded from that list was Kobe. Coincidence? Another interesting thing is that Sheridan points out how Phil Jackson really hated Tim Donaghy for making unfair calls. This adds a lot tangible evidence for the conspiracy theorists. Maybe it shouldn't be considered a conspiracy anymore. The Lakers are one of the biggest markets in the NBA and have probably been involved in more referee schemes than any other teams. What are your thoughts?
Posted by: fkillah | July 22, 2007 at 09:41 AM
Craig W.
With regards to my Suns' comments, I was referring to their acquisitions of foreign players like Barbosa and Diaw from Atlanta. That's forward thinking on Colangelo's style, gutsy trading their mid level player for unknowns. Currently, what Steve Kerr did was trying to preserve the core one more season before blowing it up. The Suns owners hired him to trim down the salary and minimize the luxury taxes exposure. He has to make a choice among the three standouts: Amare, Marion and Kurt. It was a no brainer that they have to sacrifice their Center. What they lacked in height, they will compensate it with speed and shooting accuracy. That is their strategy to get out of the third place slot or second round elimination.
With regards to Mitch Kupchak, I got this from Foxsports.com from a Suns' blogger comments:
"all I can say is thank god Kupcheck didn't trade Odom or Kobe for Thomas just in time for Thomas to break down a la Brian Grant. Only reason I expect he didn't is the Suns forgot to ask the Lakers first."
That's the kind of respect we have with our GM throughout the league and among his peers.
I could only surmised that if Mitch Kupchak was the GM during the 70's we'd not trade Brian Winters et al to a Muslim convert and malcontent, Lew Alcindor who changed his name Kareem Abdul Jabbar. He was another dangerous Malcom X in NBA. Even when Kareem was with the team, they were still mired with mediocrity, again Kupchak would not have the vision of trading Gail Goodrich to the Jazz to get the top '79 1st rd draft pick that's Magic Johnson because he would be too chicken to make the move and thirdly, if he was the GM in the 80's he would be afraid to trade a great PG Norm Nixon to an unknown guard, Byron Scott, what he could have done is to wait for Adrian Dantley to be free, to wait for the Ice Man to be free, to go for World Free, to go for Alex English etc. the same way of waiting for Bynum to succeed by wasting the opportunity of matching J. Kidd and Kobe and continue spending $ 10M on a coach of supposedly an "ABA" topnotch roster. If you have no guts, no vision then you will never attain any glory, you will remain an average team. We will never reach the bottom but we can only dream on the mountain top. (Right now, our vision is that Bynum, Walton, Radmanovic, Crittenton, Turiaf and Cook will bring us to promised dynasty in 2011.LOL!)
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 22, 2007 at 09:56 AM
Vman,
It is easy to condemn the accused but we have laws to respect that until they are proven guilty, he's still innocent. However, if proven guilty I just don't expect the accused to pay restitutions but also for the league to return any fines with interest on players and teams as well. One question that I'm curious, where do these fines go? Is David Stern another CEO Grasso of the Wall Street profitting for every stock trade? How much is he getting paid from the NBA? Does he have any stock options on any NBA team, since he has been coddling with team owners for quite sometime? Does he get commissions from any media extentions or new media markets in Asia? This guy should be thoroughly investigated, I suspect there are $$$ signs with his wide smiles.
If Donatelli or say, Don Collione is proven guilty, he should resign, his boss that may be Stu Jackson has to resign and those who knew it but didn't do anything, possibly David Stern has to resign. No one should be above the law and remain scotch-free when there is a big doubt on their past dealings. Again no one is indispensable, there will always be qualified individuals to pick up where they left.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 22, 2007 at 10:14 AM
Rick,
Here's the starting 5 I'd like to see, in training camp at least;
1. Farmar
2. Kobe
3. LO
4. Mihm
5. Bynum
off the bench
1. Fisher
2. Evans\ Java
3. Walton\ Vlad
4. Rony
5. Kwame
permanent pine
Sasha
Cook
I'd really like to see if Mihm can play the PF and be productive. If he can, we will take a big step forward this year. I want to see what J-Crit can do when the season starts. If he can command 10-15 minutes a game between the 1 or 2 spots early in the year, he'll get some valuable experience and we can save Fish's legs for later.
I feel one of the biggest keys to the year is finding a way for Kobe to get some rest on the bench during games without the team falling behind or giving up a lead. One of our biggest problems is Kobe has to work so hard for so long that he has little left for the closing 5 minutes. We need to have people work together fluidly while Kobe is getting his rest. And that doesn't mean LO has to immediately step up and become the take-over scoring guy that Kobe usually plays. We need the entire team to step up and play at a higher level when Kobe is in the game. If they can do that, they will all play at that higher level when he's out.
I'm very encouraged that we will have a good season this year, much better than many of the doom & gloom people are predicting. I believe we will exceed 55 wins. I think the western conference is going to tighten up this year and I believe the Mavs, Suns, Jazz, and Spurs will all have less wins this time around. Each one of those teams is just one injury away from having very mediocre seasons.
Lakers - 57 wins in a breakout season.
Posted by: LakerLarry | July 22, 2007 at 10:25 AM
Edwin Gueco,
Sometimes it is better to keep your powder dry. Mitch didn't get into any trades while he was at a disadvantage (early summer). The existing team last year was better than it looked because of all the injuries and a real dearth at PG.
Going into next year I feel much better about the team. No it is not a championship level team, but it is a viable mid playoff team with depth and flexibility. As the season goes on, trading possibilities will get better and, I think, our players will look better to other GMs. That is the time to trade for someone to take us to the top 4 level of teams in the west (the best I think we can expect this year).
Posted by: Craig W. | July 22, 2007 at 10:35 AM
IF THAT WAS TRUE, WE WOULD STILL HAVE SHAQ HERE AND WE WOULD BE CHASING OUR 5TH OR 6TH NBA TITLE IN THE 2000 DYNASTY. "
Or maybe getting swept in the first round of the eastern conference because thats all the LAZY FAT BUM is capable of acheiving togetehr with taking advantage of some kids to make a buck and get on TV a little more.
Posted by: LAKERDAWG | July 22, 2007 at 10:43 AM
When someone says " I don't care about Kobe any more or where he goes..." you'd think he was a fan who got upset with the events this summer.
But when these pretenders bring up Shaq, selfishness, Merion High and other old piece of arguments used by Kobe-bashers, you'd know they were never a fan from the get-go.
Posted by: Confucius_vs_Infiltrators | July 22, 2007 at 11:34 AM
Laker fans face it, this is your team for 2007/2008, Kobe, Lamar and 10 Bozo's.
Kobe leaves next year, so you should take the Atlanta deal of Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, and Josh Childress for Kobe otherwise you will get nothing.
The 10 Bozo's nobody wants them. Nobody pursued Mims or Fisher while they were free agents and the others guys simply suck. Take the deal or there will be bad times ahead for you Laker faithful.
Posted by: Derek | July 22, 2007 at 11:46 AM
Edwin,
You keep complaining about the Laker's failure to acquire Jason Kidd. We've debated the issue before and we still disagree. You continue to blame the FO and if anyone says the trade is\was a bad idea, you insinuate they are stupid for supporting the FO.
In your earlier post you brought up the Brian Grant issue, old player, broken down, big contract, Lakers took him, FO stupid, bla-bla-bla.... You do realize J-Kidd's only 1 year younger than B Grant and Grant's been out of the league for 2 years now. It's hard to believe you are still advocating that trade. A trade in which we would give up a boatload of young developing talent for an old player with ailing knees. Thank God our front office didn't make that trade.
Posted by: LakerLarry | July 22, 2007 at 11:58 AM
RDLEE
The LAkers are in no way a better team than GS, LAC, Mem or, New Orleans. At best the Lakers ar the 10-12 seed in the Western Conf.
Why do you think Kobe wants to leave so bad.
Also for the record D-Fish did not start at GS or Utah
GS started; Speedy Claxton until he was traded for Baron Davis
Utah started; Darrin Williams
Posted by: Derek | July 22, 2007 at 11:59 AM
YES!!! I was the first one to blog in this post!
Posted by: never | July 22, 2007 at 12:02 PM
Re: Tim Donaghy
I was not able to find Donaghy's game log for the past two years, nor could I find out if he was invloved in this game against the Cavs:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=T6SpBM8dB4k
What I do know about sports gambling is the Lakers get more action than most, (if not all) other NBA teams. This was especially true during the Shaq/Kobe era. The Lakers' numerous television apprearances coupled with their nationwide popularity means heavy betting action. I cannot speculate on how many Laker games Doghany "fixed", but my guess is that any bookie, if given the chance, would prefer to fix the games with the heaviest action to maximize profit.
I think that this scandal will actually benefit the NBA in the long run. The officiating has become a joke in recent years. Fans will now question any questionable call (assuming they don't already). Stern will be forced to implement a public system of accountability for poor officiating. Similiar to baseball, where the commisioner was basically forced to implement a steroid policy, basketball will finally be forced to clean up the poor officiating.
Does anyone know where I an look up the actual game log by referee?
Posted by: Mitchell | July 22, 2007 at 12:03 PM
Edwin,
Stern did pull this new TV contract off in the face of horrible ratings so it might be bonus time. You might remember that a rainout of a NASCAR event out drew the NBA finals one game. But this problem brings him a whole new kind of problem that will play out before during and after the verdict. In the public opinion court, Kobe's little sojourn in Colorado proves that it can fall a long way before the jury comes back.
We're talkin' about empty seats, dark TVs, late night talk show host jokes.
The trial will make it stay in the press with mentions of games and names but it's not the kind of problem that will go away with a suspension of a ref.
This is similar to the Bonds record Selig won't embrace. We're pretty sure it hasn't been achieved honestly. However you paint it, it's a mess that the NBA and world of professional sports hates worse than anything.
BTW, on the only other meaningful subject you valiantly try to keep to, the front office isn't done. Keep the faith.
Posted by: Vman | July 22, 2007 at 12:10 PM
LakerLarry,
Interesting alternative. Everyone else, Who's in YOUR 5?
Posted by: Rick Friedman | July 22, 2007 at 12:12 PM
Edwin Gueco:
"It is easy to condemn the accused but we have laws to respect that until they are proven guilty, (Tim Donaghy's) still innocent."
Not in my book... he already resigned from the NBA and agreed to turn himself over before charges were even filed. And just like in the Michael Vick case, the Feds don't go after people unless they are confident they can win. No matter what the outcome is, the damage has been done and everyone will be looking at ref's calls with a grain of salt.
Posted by: hal9000 | July 22, 2007 at 12:12 PM
Edwin,
Hey, just heard the warrant has been issued and our beloved ref is tied to the Gambino crime family. Fasten your seat belts.
Posted by: Vman | July 22, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Here's what Adrian Wojnarowski on Yahoo! Sports has to say about Kobe and the US team. Remember, Wojnarowski has been Yahoo's Kobe hater, as opposed to Steve Kerr who has always admired (but also criticized) Kobe.
_____
For now, Bryant is determined to blanket himself in the red, white and blue, which desperately needs him to win a gold medal in Beijing next summer. ...The U.S. had great perimeter finishers in LeBron James and Dwyane Wade a year ago when they lost to Greece in the world championships, but Bryant is the kind of two-way talent this program is dying to have on its side.
"There's a toughness to Kobe, an edge," Colangelo said. "And that's something we didn't have last year."
________
In other words, it's possible to be a Kobe hater and yet be lucid and objective. Maybe some of the dudes on the blog should follow the example.
What comes out of this is that the basketball pros all agree on Kobe's pre-eminence and don't feel that whatever character issues may or may not exist interfere with his performing for their team.
In any case, it's a lot easier to have respect for a unique "two-way talent" than for one-way obsessive monomaniacs who, like any number of cows in the pasture, chew their cud of hatred over and over again and never manage to use their oral apparatus for anything else.
Posted by: Tsphere | July 22, 2007 at 12:21 PM
Long Time,
" I think Wes is right. Before all the injuries last year, the Lakers were
in the top 5 or 6 in the league"
No, they weren't. The schedule allowed them to have a record better than the relative strength of the team. Overvaluing the team's talent is going to doom the Lakers to the first round/second round if they get lucky purgatory for the next ten years.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 22, 2007 at 12:28 PM
Craig W.
"Mitch didn't get into any trades while he was at a disadvantage"
I hope you're right. That GM of Sonics formerly from Spurs, Mr. Presti is like Jerry West of the 80's. He's realligning the future 1st rd draft picks rookies, mixing them with veterans but he has an eye for talent when he was with the Spurs. If Presti was our manager in the post Shaq era, I don't know if he would get Tierre Brown as the initial PG, Smush Parker as the next PG, snubbed Fisher for higher pay then get him back by luck in '07. Finally, it looks like that he is getting it right with Crittenton but he has to buy insurance with Farmar and just in case he fails there is also Yue, and bidded for Blake, Papaloukas and Francis, he will be known as the General Manager of numerous PG's. Well, beauty lies on the eye of the beholder. For Mitch's eyes (or is it Jim Buss' eyes) on talents those were the promising rookies that would succeed the tradition of Norm Nixon, Magic Johnson, Sedale Threatt and Derek Fisher. His solemn choice were: Tierre Brown, Smush Parker and Jordan Farmar. We're now in Murphy's Law territory, what else can go wrong?
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 22, 2007 at 12:32 PM
"I love our depth at point guard and center."
???
PG - One of them was slow three years ago when he was last with the team. One of them is a rookie, with two years of college. One is a second year player, who would be a senior in college this year had he stayed, and who only started two games last season despite being behind Smush Parker.
C - One has no offensive game, is a poor rebounder, one is in his second year, still very wet-behind-the-ears, one hasn't played for 1.5 years.
The Lakers are not deep at either of those positions. Just like last season, you are confusing "relatively equal overall abilities" with depth.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | July 22, 2007 at 12:35 PM
Laker Larry,
"Lakers took him, FO stupid, bla-bla-bla.... You do realize J-Kidd's only 1 year younger than B Grant and Grant's been out of the league for 2 years now"
It is so unfortunate that you don't agree with my opinion. I never call anyone "stupid" those are your words. Perhaps, it's higher than that, "inept" leaders. Don't compare players based on age, I question your player evaluation on Kidd and Grant, just because Kidd is within the age of Brian Grant. The last time, you were teaching us on salary cap and It took LakerTom to educate you on salary cap and trade exception before you finally accepted it, you were scolding us with absolute no knowledge of salary cap, you even called us idiots! Like your post right now, (read it again) will a responsible blogger be happy to reply with your style of enhancing other point of views? Do you want me to kowtow with your wishes? Well, we are the blah, blah, blah blogger but at least we do not stoop down to the level of discussing the blogger's personalities or censoring other bloggers, If ever there are relentless criticisms on the F/O, our objective is to improve the team not discredit a blogger. I'm following up the demands of Kobe. silence on his rants doesn't mean accomplishment, silence meant the problem still exist and we're not attaining progress. If you don't like that observation, just let the opinion of this blah blah blah blogger fly!!!
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | July 22, 2007 at 12:52 PM
Simmons in page 2 of espn wrote this:
"Guilty or innocent, we will never watch an NBA game the same way. He's going to hang over everything -- every referee, every shaky outcome, every bad call -- in ways the average fan doesn't fully realize yet. Maybe they'll throw Donaghy in jail, maybe they won't, but he'll linger over every court like a black cloud. You'll hear his name more than you think. You and your buddies will make "that guy looks like he's pulling a Donaghy!" jokes every time a referee is making calls against your favorite team. Hecklers will gleefully play the Donaghy card after every bad call against the home team. For honest referees still working games, it doesn't matter what happens from this point on -- their collective integrity will always be questioned, their collective track record won't matter, and that will be that
So that's one problem. The second problem is more complex. When news of the scandal broke on Friday, as J.A. Adande pointed out in his column that day, every diehard NBA fan had the same reaction. They weren't thinking, "I can't believe it!" or "Oh my God, how could this happen?" They were thinking, "Which one was it?" This was like finding out that your grandfather who smoked three packs a day for 50 years just came down with lung cancer. It was sad but inevitable. It was only a matter of time. These guys never made enough money (as we learned from the airplane ticket scandal) and struggled at their jobs consistently enough that there was no way to tell the difference between blowing a call and intentionally blowing a call.
More than any other professional league, an NBA referee can directly affect the outcome of every game. We've seen it happen time and time again, only we always assumed that the refs in question were working for the best interests of the league, that they were following orders like Luca Brasi (even if there was no definitive proof) -- like the guys who worked Game 6 of the Kings-Lakers series in 2002, or Game 7 of the Suns-Sonics series in 1993, or the infamous Hubert Davis Game in 1994. After Dwyane Wade and Miami received some Vince McMahon-level assistance in Games 3 and 4 of the 2006 Finals, I wrote an angry column about the "officiating crisis" (my words) that prompted Mavs owner Mark Cuban (tired of being fined) to post the link on his blog along with the sentence, "I never have to say a word again." After Dallas squandered that series, Cuban was so traumatized by the officiating that he nearly sold the Mavericks before family and friends talked him out of it.
For anyone who loves the NBA, the officiating has always been the proverbial "elephant in the room." No league has endured more jokes along the lines of "I'm not sure where the NBA ends and the WWE begins." Whether it's because of bad luck, poor training, measly pay or the thanklessness of the profession itself -- maybe it's all of those things -- the NBA employs a handful of good referees and an astonishing number of bad ones. In the playoffs, there never seems to be enough quality officials to go around. If that wasn't bad enough, the league displayed a nasty "habit" (note: I'm using quotation marks because you could never prove anything more than a series of coincidences) of assigning better referees if they needed road teams to prevail (like a marquee team trailing 2-1 and playing Game 4 on the road) and weaker referees if they needed home teams to prevail (because weak referees are more likely to have their calls prejudiced by a raucous home crowd). This "habit" was miraculously cured this past spring, one year after the fallout of the 2006 Finals, when the officiating assignments became noticeably more haphazard and we ended up with just one Game 7 in four rounds. Maybe it was a coincidence, maybe not.
And that's before factoring in the public's perception (well-earned, by the way) that superstars receive more favorable calls than non-superstars. It's like Chris Rock's bit about dad getting the biggest chicken leg at the dinner table -- once you reach a certain level in the NBA, the whistles will come. This perpetual leeway allows gifted athletes like Wade, Gilbert Arenas and LeBron James to drive recklessly into traffic in crunch time, knowing they can either score or draw a foul. (Even when Michael Jordan won the '98 Finals on what everyone believed was his final shot ever, he famously shoved Utah's Bryon Russell to the ground before launching that jumper. No whistle.) If anything, LeBron's pre-2007 game depended on this leeway so much that he was completely ineffective in the 2006 World Championships; he kept bowling his way into the paint and waiting for calls that never came. The international refs almost seemed amused by him. The NBA refs would have been bailing him out.
So when news of the Donaghy scandal broke, everyone's reaction was the same: "Which one?"
That's why I had one group of friends frantically organizing a "Who was the crooked ref?" office pool on Friday morning instead of wondering, "How could this happen?" That's why Stern ignored the FBI's advice and used such harsh language in his official statement on Friday; nobody understands the gravity of this crisis more than someone who grew up in New York in the '50s during CCNY's famous point-shaving scandal. This was his worst nightmare, worse than a repeat of the Artest Melee, worse than a repeat of Kermit Washington's punch, worse than anything except a terrorist act during an NBA game. Over everything else, David Stern always wanted his fans to feel completely safe when they're attending games, and he always wanted them to believe that the integrity of the game was intact. Now, they don't feel that way. At all.
So that's two significant problems. Problem No. 1 will fade away over time, although it will never completely disappear. Problem No. 2 can be fixed, although it will take some major work. But Problem No. 3 can't be fixed. If the allegations are true, Tim Donaghy didn't just violate the integrity of the league and rig some games. There's a good chance he altered the course of the 2007 championship. Only three teams had a chance last year: Dallas, Phoenix and San Antonio. When Dallas choked against Golden State in the opening round, the NBA's refusal to fix a broken playoff system came back to haunt it in Round 2, thanks to a Spurs-Suns matchup that suddenly doubled as the NBA Finals. In Game 1, San Antonio stole home-court advantage with a convincing win that everyone remembers because Steve Nash busted his nose open. The Suns rallied back with a blowout win in Game 2. Here's what I wrote after the third game -- the Spurs were favored by four, with an over/under of 200.5 -- after San Antonio prevailed, 108-101, thanks to Amare Stoudemire playing just 21 minutes because of foul trouble:
Congratulations to Greg Willard, Tim Donaghy and Eddie F. Rush for giving us the most atrociously officiated game of the playoffs so far: Game 3 of the Suns-Spurs series. Bennett Salvatore, Tom Washington and Violet Palmer must have been outraged that they weren't involved in this mess. Good golly. Most of the calls favored the Spurs, but I don't even think the refs were biased -- they were so incompetent that there was no rhyme or reason to anything that was happening. Other than the latest call in NBA history (a shooting foul for Manu Ginobili whistled three seconds after the play, when everyone was already running in the other direction), my favorite moment happened near the end, when the game was already over and they called a cheap bump on Bruce Bowen against Nash, so the cameras caught Mike D'Antoni (the most entertaining coach in the league if he's not getting calls) screaming sarcastically, "Why start now? Why bother?" What a travesty. Not since the cocaine era from 1978-1986 has the league faced a bigger ongoing issue than crappy officiating"
"If you're a diehard NBA fan, you're horrified but strangely hopeful, because we needed a tipping point to change a stagnant league that was headed in the wrong direction ... and maybe this was it."
Posted by: jorema | July 22, 2007 at 12:53 PM