Because the Western Conference wasn't stacked already
There must be Celtics fans tossing themselves off buildings tonight. In any event, the already mammoth Western Conference got a luxurious infusion of star power in tonight's draft lottery, when the Blazers snagged the first pick, followed by Seattle at number two. That means in one form or another, Greg Oden and Kevin Durant are about to make the Pacific Northwest about much more than rain, lush green space, and concern for global warming. About the only thing that kept the E.C. from risking permanent fiefdom (at least as measured by number of quality teams) was Atlanta sneaking up a spot to number three, robbing Phoenix of the opportunity to steal their pick and beef up an already quality squad.
At this point, it's fair to say the Western Conference could get very Lord of the Flies in '07-'08. Not that Portland and Seattle are suddenly going to morph into title contenders, but the Blazers were a pretty good bad team last year, have a ton of potential, and now have the flexibility to move Zach Randolph and get even better. Or keep him and figure out how to work a massive and athletic frontcourt with Oden, Randolph, LaMarcus Aldridge. Or swap picks with the Sonics and take Durant, who fits a little better, in theory. Seattle now has insurance if Rashard Lewis leaves and options if he stays.
Go down the line. Dallas will be good next year, as will Phoenix, San Antonio, Utah, and Houston (barring major injuries). Considering how they finished, a full season with A.I. makes Denver dangerous, which also describes a talented, improving Golden State team when Baron Davis is healthy. NO/OKC could be better, we've already talked about Seattle and Portland, and the Clippers are at worst mediocre, and could be better depending on how the offseason goes. Memphis has the cap room to get better. Not necessarily good, but they'll have a high pick and the potential to not be crappy. Even Sacramento, as big a mess as they are, still had a crack at a playoff spot last year.
If I'm K.G., I'm checking for real estate outside of Minnesota ASAP. You can make an argument that they'll be the worst team in the conference heading into next year. Not sure I buy it, but that I could reasonably defend that position kind of proves my point. There likely won't be a lot of gimmies next season on this side of the Mississippi.
Work those phones, Mitch.
BK
Chad Ford is insane!
Trade LO and Bynum and Mo and Kwame for Jermaine and some bums.
Wow, yeah, huge improvement there.... for Indiana.
It sounds like most of us are coming around to reality here... what we need to change more than anything is the team culture here. There are too many guys who just don't care (Cook, Kwame, etc). Our hands are significantly tied to make a run at a title anytime soon. That's a sad, very sad realization. I hope I'm wrong and an opportunity presents itself... but in the meantime, Artest is a worthwhile gamble (really what do we have to lose? We already suck).... then let's look at the free agents available. There is some talent available, and not a whole lot of dollars to chase them with.
K-Bros, anyway to give us an update on how the off season work of Socks is coming along?? I would hope he has realized he's a very distant after thought in upcoming centers in the NBA right now after Oden heads west.
Posted by: Tim-4-Show | May 24, 2007 at 12:03 PM
Phx trade with Lakers?
Banks for Vladimir?
In the great cold war, the US and the Soviets traded spys back and forth all the time, even though they hated each other. As long as it mutually benefited both sides.
Now if you were the Suns and Lakers, who would make the first call.? Mitch and Dantoni would get into a fight during the greetings. Bill Clinton would have to be brought in to negotiate the deal. The players would have to be swapped on the Colorado River Bridge near Blythe in the middle of the night. The Phoenix Gorilla and Jim Buss would have to be left at home. No room for emotional outbursts or antics that could cause this trade deal to blow up.
The deal is right for both teams. Could they overcome there intense hatred of each to do the right thing?
Fatty, Laker Diplomat in Flagstaff
Posted by: Fatty | May 24, 2007 at 12:10 PM
Hard working "Fantasy GMs"
Some of the guys here are working really hard to present very detailed trade proposals to improve the Lakers’ roster and most of them have pretty interesting ideas. Some are far fetched and others are closer to reality.
They all are forgetting that Jimmy Buss and Mitch Kupchak run this franchise. They have failed to do anything right for 3 years now. What makes you think they would turn around and bring this team to the “elite” level overnight?
Jimmy boy is a moron, totally consumed and blinded by narcissism and Mitch Kupchak is trying to please the moron.
Please don’t get me wrong, I admire our hard working “Fantasy GMs”, I just don’t want them to be disappointed.
Ventriloquist
Posted by: Ventriloquist (AKA: Cyrus) | May 24, 2007 at 12:25 PM
Fatty your four deadly sins write up was excelllent. Props to you
Posted by: Mamba24 | May 24, 2007 at 12:32 PM
fire up the Jarrett Jack rumors:
Twenty-four hours had yet to pass on the draft lottery transformation of the Portland Trail Blazers, and general manager Kevin Pritchard and his staff already had brainstormed a most intriguing idea: If they're going to draft Greg Oden, they should take a hard look at making a trade to get Mike Conley Jr. to come with him.
So the discussion is under way, a source close to the team and Oden said Wednesday night, about trading into the top of the lottery for a second draft pick to secure the franchise center's personal point guard. It would be a brilliant, bold stroke for the Blazers G.M., and here's the thing: Pritchard has the parts and the imagination to make it happen.
================
if the Lakers could get involved in this, they could insert Jarrett Jack in as PG, that would be cool:
PG: Jarrett Jack/Farmar
SG: Kobe/Mo Evans
SF: Artest/Walton
PF: Odom/Turiaf?
C: Bynum/Mihm? / Magliore?
not bad... Vlad Rad, our 1st pick and ??? yikes! maybe next years first pick? to Atlanta or Memphis? or Boston or ??? and take back a bad contract? Conley wouldn't actually go 3rd would he? that's too high. But then turn around and trade the pick for Jarrett Jack? I know I'm missing something, that seems a little easy...
Posted by: TaosHum | May 24, 2007 at 12:46 PM
The problem is everybody is putting blame on somone else which will get the Laker Organization nowhere, there is nothing wrong with management taking little jabs at each other, they are after all assuming like family in the organization and really close so they can be open about certain topics in the media. At the end of the day i'm sure everybody is on the same page. Everybody relax! Things will be a lot better. Trust your management, they cant do much really until AFTER the actual draft. We all hope to get KG and it is going to be dissapointing when we don't. Changes have already been made, we know that a certain a few wont be back already. The fact of the matter is that no matter who we pick up its not a gaurantee to a championship. Any 5 can get to the Finals, if they just play ball. I just hope PJ is gonna let the guys do just that a lot more next season instead of bullheading his triangle and strategies which at times just dont make any logical sense to anybody. I always loved PJ but this year for the first time he was getting on my nerves in situations. I think he is gonna come back around next year and so is management regardless if we make any major moves or not. Everybody get healthy and stay healthy please!!
Posted by: Violater | May 24, 2007 at 01:01 PM
"
From Chad Ford's chat today:
Kevin (Thousand Oaks, CA): What do the Lakers do with #19? Any chance to package that pick with Odom and Brown to the Pacers for O'Neal?
Chad Ford: Here's what I would do if I were the Lakers and Pacers ...
Swap Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, Kwame Brown, Maurice Evans and the No. 19 for ... Jermaine O'Neal, Marquis Daniels, Jeff Foster and David Harrison.
Daniels can play point in the Lakers triangle offense. O'Neal and Foster give them a bigger front line.
For the Pacers, Odom is a good fit, Bynum has a bright future and with the No. 19 pick the Pacers can look for some more help in their backcourt (Nick Young, Javaris Crittenton, Brandan Rush, etc.)
I think it's a deal that makes sense for both teams.
Crazy stuff."
It'd definitely be worth considering, if we knew JO was going to be healthy. But we don't, so I don't see how we could make that move.
We might be better off dumping salary at this point rather than adding it, especially if management/Kobe got some kind of word that Garnett would be willing to opt out and sign with us.
Say we trade LO to Boston for Ratliff's insurance-covered expiring
contract and their #5 pick (either Yi or Brandan Wright should be available). If we don't resign Luke, we'll be $20+ mil under the cap for 2008-09 (depending at what level its set) with a couple of elite prospects in Bynum and Yi/Wright .
If Kobe were to throw a fit, we could trade him for young talent/cap relief and rebuild in truth. If he were willing to wait and able to recruit KG and a bought-out Kidd for 08-09, we'd have an intriguing combination of experienced and young world-class talent.
Posted by: Sean P. | May 24, 2007 at 01:06 PM
Fatty,
I've thought about sending Cook to Phoenix a couple times, but then remembered that he would probably be the one to kill us with the Suns. In their style of offense Vlad, or Cook could be all-stars (or at least put up really good numbers). You never make your enemy better no matter what. And anyway, I think the Lakers are over the Marcus Banks faze.
Posted by: Weave-Man | May 24, 2007 at 01:09 PM
I would do that trade if it included Danny Granger
Danny Granger, Jeff Foster, Marcuis Daniels and David Harrison as well as Darrel Armstrong... I would do it.....
Posted by: Gino | May 24, 2007 at 01:14 PM
And of course we need to get Artest in hear as well with that line-up...
Kobe
Marcus Daniels
Artest
Oneil
Foster
Turiaf
Granger
Farmar
Mimm
Vrad
Armstrong
Do it
Posted by: Gino | May 24, 2007 at 01:17 PM
REPOST
michael h
“Who are these guys Shaq would have recruited to L.A if he had stayed? This is one of your reacurring themes but who did he bring to Miami other then Gary" I dont get the triangle" Payton? That is such a total myth.”
I don’t know who Shaq will recruit, my point is that it’s not coincidence that good players have historically played alongside shaq, and by in large, most players like playing with shaq. Name one notable guy (Vrad don’t count) who has decided to play alongside kob?? Last year the big free agent signing was Shammon Williams and Vrad….whoopdedoo.
jandro,
“Give Kobe a break, hes not out there to hold guys hands, and build fragile egos--hes out there to play ball, and accept nothing but a soldiers' perfomance on the court with him. The fact that so few of our guys responded is a testament to a poor roster of misfit, undertalented, overentitled players that would rather snowboard and collect NBA millions than get down in the d*mn trenches with our guys.
Dont trade Odom, farmar and turiaf because HEART CANNOT BE TAUGHT.”
I read your post and you made valid points. I like Odom, Farmar and Turiaf, those other guys can go. I’m not suggesting that kobe be lovey-dovey with his teammates, but, he needs to give respect to get respect……..kobe did not give shaq the proper respect in the past, hence shaq’s in Miami contending (and winning) for championship. It is kobe’s turn and he’s got to do more than just rely on management. nobody has responded to my take on kobe going out and recruiting Carter……..i think kobe and kobe-lovers don’t want to know the answer if kobe reaches out……….all that crap with shaq will come back to bite kid kobe in the a$$.
tha show,
“and i would like to see more of that from kobe as well. however it may be possible that kobe is a mediocre leader, an average communicator, and not very good at selling the prospect of playing in la. and maybe, just maybe playing basketball is the only kobe knows how to do superbly well.”
if this is the case, kobe needs to ackonoldege and get someone to be his #2, build up the #2 to do the leadership thing and let kobe play. I liken it to the a$$hole general who has a good lieutenant do the nice stuff.
designmao,
“what did KL do, he continued to root for the lakers, cause he's a loyal fan, and still hate on kobe, the best player on the team. that my fellow bloggers is basketball limbo. its not i place i wouldnt wish for anyone. and now i understand.”
Dr. Designmao. Very insightful. I believe you get it. Exiled is in the same boat too. believe it or not, I was actually starting to turn around when the lakers were playing good TEAM b-ball at the beginning of the season, but then kobe became kobe and that was it. there is nothing I hate more, even during the championship runs, than kobe dribbling the ball 7-10 times then jacking up a bad shot or passing to a teammate for a shot with 5-6 seconds left on the shot clock. there is absolutely no reason for someone to dribble 7-10 times in the triangle, absolutely none.
Angry,
“Kobe had great teamates around in him won 3 titles and No MVP awards”
wrong, Shaq had great teammates (kobe excluded) and won 3 championships and 3 Finals MVPs……
“Also, here is another interesting fact, a team lead by Nash has never beaten the Spurs in a play-off series!!!”
My point exactly that winning championships is not joke. Spurs have been monsters and kobe decided that he doesn’t need the best center in the league and still compete for championships?? kobe’s got his head up his skinny a$$ as much as you have your head up kobe’s a$$.
BTW, the only stat I care about is championships and/or competing for championships. 16W in the playoffs is the only stat that I care about……..ya think Spurs care about who’s scoring the points?? only kobe-lover care about how many points he scores…….fools gold.
SBPimp,
“KL - OK, you tell me what "great" players have clamored to play with KG over the years? What big-name free agents did Jordan attract while he was in Chicago?”
I feel bad for KG, Minnesota is no Lakers when it comes to franchise management. My point isn’t that kobe has to get “great” players, by point is that kobe needs the team to play “great”, not kobe playing “great”.
“Why would we want Carter when we've already got a better version of him? You're criticizing Kobe for being a ballhog and being immature, then you hold up CARTER as an example of the kind of player you want to see here??”
your comments is why I don’t believe the lakers will ever get back to championship form if your mindset is kobe’s mindset. you watch, if Carter goes to Miami, Shaq/Wade and company will be competing for a 2nd championship. it’s all right though, kobe will win his 3rd scoring title.
wizo,
“They went along for the ride when we were winning championships, but have nothing but criticism when we aren't winning.”
I’ve been a fan for over 20 years…….i guess I’m showing my age. I’ve been through those years when the lakers would be embarrassed year after year (geez, sounds like the last 3 years) and for the life of me, why would someone (kobe) trade championship opportunities for self-serving purposes?? I simply don’t understand why. who cares if kobe’s a jerk-off a$$hole or shaq’s a lazy bum……..the lakers were competing and winning titles………that’s all that matters. LA will not win a title under kobe’s reign as the “man”…….at least shaq can say he was the #1 during those championship years. ironic, when kobe’s skills begin to diminish, you so-called kobe-lovers will crawl into your little hole and not support the “greatest basketball player on the planet”. I guarantee it. whos’ the bandwagon fan now??
hari,
“No - regular season MVP. Yep, the same Shaq who anointed Kobe as the best player in the game in the not too distant past.”
That was Shaq’s attempt to placate “green with Envy” Bryant. come again.
kiwi,
first off, I’m learning to respect you more abd more as we barb.
“The Kobe Shaq relationship was over.It had visibly gone past the point where the two could act in the best interests of the team.It was time to rebuild.”
agreed, but kobe could have signed BEFORE trading shaq, thus allowing laker management to at least trade for expiring contracts to rebuild. what’s up with taking Grant’s monster contract for 3 years?? Grant should be playing in a wheelchair with his bad knees.
“Shaq was never prepared to move over a little.A great leader would have seen that the team and Kobe coufl have benefitted form Kobe being given some room to move in this regard.”
my view is that Shaq was prepared as long as kobe gave the Big Lazy some respect and dignity. Look at Hari “come again”’s comment that shaq declared kobe to be the best player in the league. kobe repays the olive branch by ratting out shaq in CO. what’s up with that?? if I were shaq, I’d want to pound kobe into oblivion for ratting me out. no kobe-blogger can refute this fact (I’ll give credit to G_O for at least acknowledging that it wasn’t cool).
“Much of your argument relies on the fact that Kobe cant get guys to play with him for less money while shaq can...I think very few players can.I havent seen Garnett do it for one...I”
Garnett isn’t the “best player on the planet” and MN is no LA.
“But I dont think Kobe should be judged on the fact he 'cant' do what shaq does...he is a different personality.Artest has said he would like to come and play in LA and there have been those rumours about managment vetoing several Kobe recruitment jobs.”
this would be a good start. if [emphasis on "if"] kobe can get a long with the Big Crazy like Artest, and ……more importantly, lakers win and play TEAM ball, not to be confused with KOBE ball.
“Furthermore, if the lakers resembled a contender it would be easier to get guys to jump on the bandwagon...the miami team was always going to contend”
Miami was a .500 club (hey like LA) before shaq arrived. since shaq’s arrival, Miami have been contending notwithstanding this year. Miami looked old.
“much easier to get an aging vet to sign on for less money if you have a legit chance before said player gets there ( Malone and payton signed on to the 2004 lakes DESPITE kobes presence on that team ha ha)....and didnt Finley go to the spurs instead of the heat?”
good point. Malone and Payton went to LA not for kobe, but for Shaq………..I recall Miami heavily recruiting Finley (I might be wrong). BTW, does Finley have a title yet?
“Kobe has got room to improve.I ripped him on this blog following his final press conference...but that doesnt mean he cant /wont ever be capable of leading a winning squad..”
I hope kobe will grow wiser as he gets older? as for leading a team to a winning squad, I will concur, but leading one to a championship…………dubious. kobe reminds me of a DWilkins (no disrespect intended), not a Jordan.
“If you look at the criticisms on lebron (brought to the forefront after last nights pass) youll see these guys cant win.Theres thousands of people whose job it is to to make a big deal of this stuff...you KL are getting caught up in it all.....”
I disagree. LBJ is building up his teammates. Cavs aren’t not suppose to win in Detroit. I’ll guarantee that by the time LBJ’s career is over, he’ll be competing for championships and guys like Marshall (not necessarily Marshall) will hit a game-winning shot………….hey does BJ Armstrong, Paxon, Longley ring a bell?
Zen,
“I already know who won the finals MVP during the championships, but I don't care. If Kobe was the leading scorer in the series, he would have won it. BTW, Kobe pretty much lead most of those playoff series in scoring and not Shaq. Shaq just averaged more in the finals, but it took Kobe's scoring in the previous rounds to even get them there.”
Do you like Brie with you whine??
“The Last 4 winners of the MVP award have 0 championships.”
regular season MVP is fools gold (ask Dirk), Finals MVP is what matters. how’s your brie?
“Amare and Marian will be carrying Kobe's bags to have him on board. Are you kidding me? Phoenix would be 1 up on Utah right now.”
so where are the “Amare and Marion” of the world……..right smuch, kwame, cookie
“Phoenix would have won it all with Kobe!”
PHX would get bounced in round 1 and Amare and Marion would ask to be traded.
to all other bloggers, if I didn’t respond, my apologies. I actually have work to do, believe it or not.
Posted by: KL | May 24, 2007 at 01:21 PM
Sean P,
Swap Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, Kwame Brown, Maurice Evans and the No. 19 for ... Jermaine O'Neal, Marquis Daniels, Jeff Foster and David Harrison.
Daniels can play point in the Lakers triangle offense. O'Neal and Foster give them a bigger front line.
Chad Ford is an IDIOT!!!!! That is a HORRIBLE TRADE!!!!!!! What has Marquis Daniels ever done to prove that he could run the triangle, or even be worthy of a starting nod? He's got talent, but Dallas got rid of him for a reason. I like Jeff Foster, but only as a back up. He should never be considered more than a throw in any trade, and if we took him as a major part we would be fools. David Harrison? WHO THE HELL IS HE???? I've seen him play a couple times, and he's definitely nothing to write home about.
Yeah, trade a potential all-star, a could be superstar, a good role player, and an expiring contract for JO, Daniels, Harrison, and Foster?!?!? That definitely would make us better.
Posted by: Weave-Man | May 24, 2007 at 01:21 PM
Weave-man
Forgot to mention that Vladimir has been programmed (like the Manchurian Candidate) to become totally spacey at just the right moment in a playoff game. When the PHX Fans yell "Beat LA",( the trigger mechanism), causes Vladimir to start "shooting" the ball from all over the court. Followed by a Raja Bell clothesline, a Nash hip check, and ended by Vladimir doing push ups at center court. As security wisks him away, he will scream, "Soylent Green is People"
Sorry, I overlooked mentioning that in my first post. haha
Fatty," the little old manchurian candidate maker"
Posted by: Fatty | May 24, 2007 at 01:34 PM
BK,
Tell the Laker organization I'm moving up to Minnesota on 06/01. I'll talk to KG when I get there to come to Lakers if they pay me half a mil, haha
I think that teams in the west are gonna be stalked with quality players, which will make the west very competitive. This is what I think (I have been saying for a long time, and I'll keep saying it again). This is the line-up that will work, if we can't get quality players.
Mo' Evans
Kobe Bryant
Lamar Oden
Ronny Turiaf
Andrew B, or Chris Mihm, or Kwame Brown
Posted by: ace | May 24, 2007 at 02:00 PM
This is what the lakers should do. Its the only thing that can work with the cap flexibility issues and lack of good trading pieces to work with.
We find a way to trade for Ron artest, eventhough its a risk but at this point we do not have a choice. The only team that can deal with Artest off-court issues will be the lakers, if we don not make a move, then Denver will and its going to even make life a lot tougher for the lakers.
Now we will have the 2, 3, 4 spots locked. We can send Radman and maybe Sasha for Ron. This will give sacramento more depth in their frontcourt with a 6: 10 Rad, and provide more backcourt support with the addition of Sasha. Now, we use part of the MLE to sign a guard, probably Keyon Dooling from the Orlando Magic. I think he will fit well with Kobe in the Backcourt. We will now offer part of the MLE for a Veteran Center in PJ Brown. This way we still keep our team intact, without giving away the core of the team. Our roster will be
Dooling/farmer
Kobe/Evans
Artest/Walton
Odom/Turiaf/cook/PJ Brown
Kwame/Bynum/mihm
Remember, we still have our 19th pick to use. We will also need to sign a veteran PG with the Vets minimum. I believe the key issue will be trading for Artest. We may have to throw in the 19th pick as well, because i believe Sacramento is in a rebuilding mode. It will be very silly to trade for Artest with the expiring contract of Kwame. We must also avoid trading both Radman and Cook, because we need someone to spread the floor for Kobe and Lamar.
This team will be able to compete with the addition of Artest, Dooling, PJ Brown and a vet PG without necessarilly giving away the main core.
Dooling is not in the same league as Kidd, Chauncy, but he will be an upgrade to Smush. We need to be more realistic, we are not getting JO except we are ready to part with Lamar. Trading Lamar will be a major blow to the lakers organization. We need to thread cautiously and not get carried away, the rebuilding process will take at least another 2 yrs to finally compete at the championship level.
Posted by: A A LOS | May 24, 2007 at 02:00 PM
"Family Matters" indeed
Here's what my daughter had to say about HOOPSWORLD.com, Lakers: Radio Ga Ga By Eric Pincus (May 23, 2007, 22:30)
"Excellent article. Lots and lots to digest. It's a mess. No surprise. It's full of family drama. Sadly.
Jim's piece in the whole is very interesting.... seemingly an easy target for our frustration... but of greater interest is how clearly everyone is --not-- on the same page. I do believe not being on the same page is what finally drove Jerry West away. Can't imagine he would return.... I know the fans are lighting up the radio stations with that fantasy daily.
Yes the fans are pissed. It is so sad to have the great Laker organization play out so much of it's dirty laundry in public like a common reality show. It comes back to being on the same page and clearly no one has the primary vision... or the confidence of the others to lead us from the muck and mire back into a purple and gold Shangri La.
Greek Tragedy it is. Lots of wailing. Death and betrayal at each turn. Mixed loyalties and enormous egos and sexual intrigue. Aging patriarch... relinquishing the dynasty to family rather than the best candidates available. We can only hope that we aren't navigating the 9 circles of hell.
Magali"
Baywood
Posted by: Baywood | May 24, 2007 at 02:03 PM
NEWS:
on a sportscenter update on 610 in houston, bibby said he's willing to take the MLE for one yr if the kings can't work out a S&T w/ houston. he wants to reunite w/ adelman and plus, TMAC is a good friend of his.
Posted by: Kobe Apologist | May 24, 2007 at 02:06 PM
KL
Basically the anwer to my who did shaq recruit is 2 guys. Malone and Peyton(twice) Thats pretty much it. The rest of the heat were in place and I would quess that Phil had a lot to do with landing Harper and Ho Grant.
As for the stale who drove who out debate. Kobe and shaq both played parts in it but if it were just them it could have been resolved. It was the shaq /Dr buss issues that ended the run. Now i use to be a major shaq fan, i would even defend his questionable work ethic because i knew what he brought to the table at crunch time. But then here he is the highest paid player in the league, not only the highest paid but under the collective barganing agreemnet his deal was grandfathered and no one else in the league could even legally make the money he was being paid. So here he is with 2 years left on his deal calling out Dr Buss in public to "PAY HIM". Up until Dr Buss promoted Jimmy Boy, he had been the best owner possibly in pro sports. If you were Dr Buss, how would you feel? Factor in Kobe had earned a max deal and everybody else was old or useless. Think about it rookie Luke was arguably our 6th best player after 04!! How manty more rings were actually in the stars? What would you do? Your star is embarrassing you and with a max deal for Kobe you have little cap space to add anyone else? What would you have done? Then of course Shaq showed his true colors after the trade. He got back in shape, wouldnt do it for his fans or his very generous boss, he did only only to show up Dr. Buss. Then he trashes the entire organization. Then he trashes, you and me, the L.A FANS!! And he trashes the city of L.A. And this is the guy you are still crying over? He is 36 yrs old, on an aging team with not a lot of cash to rebuild, his coach is contemplating retiring again and the Dallas trade rumors are flying. Isnt it time to just let Shaq go?
Posted by: michael h | May 24, 2007 at 02:12 PM
Hey AK/BK
Is it legal to sign a MLE for only one year?
Posted by: michael h | May 24, 2007 at 02:22 PM
Fatty,
LOL.
Gino,
Adding Granger would help, but I still don't like the deal. I'm really feeling your Charlie Bell idea. I keep seeing other pg's name's thrown around but I was looking at Bell's numbers and I think he would be a perfect fit. He shoots the 3 well, averages a little over a steal a game, and when the dude gets the minutes (20-30) he scores in double digits. The best part about his scoring is he doesn't need a lot of shots to be productive. The more I think about it, the more I think that would be a good move for us.
Posted by: Weave-Man | May 24, 2007 at 02:25 PM
Baywood:
I'm sure your right but its not that bad, my point was that exactly. Every single person in the Lakers management has a personal life too you know, so when situation like this happens they ARE on the same page to make Dr. Buss happy get the paycheck and go home, starting with Jeanie and Jim to Mitch. Now if Mitch wanted to leave he could, but please Jerry West had his own problems to worry about the Lakers which is why he ultimately left. Business will get done people, after all they DO know what they are doing, believe it or not.
Posted by: Violater a.k.a dontplaywitmay | May 24, 2007 at 02:34 PM
mich h,
we might have to take Gasol off that list....
"May 24 - While acknowledging that he could still be traded, Pau Gasol said he wants to remain a Grizzly.
"I do," Gasol said. "But the draft (lottery) didn't go our way, and now other things are going to have to happen to be a better team. I'm talking about the (next) coach and general manager. I don't know how much this affects my situation. We'll see. Let's see how the franchise reacts.""
Just curious but your Rashard trade, that was just you right? you didn't hear that rumor anywhere did you? I still like that idea. But I'm also on board bringing Artest in as well. Just somebody, anybody!
richtown,
That maybe true of Bynum, but again, the IF and WHEN are so big. We don't have any good idea of IF and WHEN Bynum will put it all together.
OK granted, Bynum did start playing bball late. But you know, that actually adds to the IF Bynum reaches his full potential. Starting bball late can be a gift or a curse. You could look at Hakeem and say, "he just started a few years ago, so the sky is the limit" and of course, Hakeem became one of the all time greats. But we also said similar things about a guy not too long ago, a guy that had a soccer background and started playing bball very late.....the sky was the limit.....you know who I'm talking about....Michael Olowokandi. Sometimes starting bball late, you never quite develop the innate feel for the game as you would have had you started when you were 2 yrs old.
As far as Oden and Durant. I think Durant will be an all-star and future scoring champion, he's the most versatile college player I've ever seen...and perhaps ever. Still, he does have a small bust potential....its imperative he can eventually gain more weight if he's to reach his potential. Oden on the other hand, is a virtual lock to be good, if not great. AT WORST this guy will be a little better than Okafor. Most expect him to eventually reach at least Alonzo level. But he has the upside to be much better than Alonzo as well. I think if you really study Oden's game, you have to say he's as sure a thing as they come. He's got an NBA body, freakish athleticism that we haven't seen in a 7ftr since D.Robinson, and he's a monster in the paint but plays very smart defense as well. On the offensive side, really as raw as he is, the sky is the limit for this guy. He breaks his right wrist, and what does he do? He develops his left, and now he can shoot lefty FTs and shoot left hooks....the fact of how quickly he developed these indicates he is a coordinated guy with a steep learning curve. Also you wouldn't know it, but Oden actually has great handles for a guy his size....again, the guy is coordinated. The other thing is he shows great footwork and balance in the paint.
So yeah, there are busts like Laettner, Kandi, Bowie, etc....but really these guys were nowhere near the prospect Oden is (or Durant for that matter). Just cuz you are drafted high doesn't mean you will be a star, sometimes the draft class is weak, and sometimes you go high cuz of upside alone (Kandi, Curry) or cuz of college career (Laettner, Morrison)....but all of these guys went into the draft with big question marks in their game. Then again, every once in a while, players come along that are considered so special, you just know they will dominate the game (Magic, Hakeem, D-Rob, Shaq, Duncan, Lebron), and Oden is in that category. Not only will I be shocked if Oden is a bust, I'll be shocked if he isn't averaging 23 and 12 and 2.5 blks by his 3rd year.
AK,
I've always respected your ability to remain objective. You brought up a lot of good points on the Lebron video. You are a master and analyzing and breaking things down. Youre like the Floyd Mayweather of blogging, stepping and countering. You almost had me....I too was getting confused....but at the end of the day, I have to say....to me it just looks like a blatant elbow. Like the famous saying goes, "if it looks like an elbow, and quacks like an elbow....its probably an elbow."
---
I'm not surprised at all that the "elbow" got no media attention. If the refs, the tv announcers, and everyone in the media couldn't see Lebron's 4 step travel on his game winner against the Wizards last year, they for sure aren't gonna see a quick elbow in the far corner. I mean that travel was ridiculous, and they replayed that thing like 8 times afterwards and the announcers couldn't see it? (On a total side note, did Eddie Jordan ever get fined for criticizing the refs for not calling traveling? I remember after when asked about it he said something like "they [NBA] can't fine me for saying the truth, they can go to the tapes and see it" .... I just wondered if he ever did get fined, cuz I don't see how he can.)
---
Chad Ford can be such a bonehead sometimes....that was like the worst trade idea ever.
Posted by: wiZo | May 24, 2007 at 02:43 PM
Wizo,
Honestly, I can't see jack in that one clip. It's really hard for me to see what's happening, because it's so grainy. I'm not even trying to remain objective as just accurate. But I think they're gonna show it on PTI, so I'll gonna check it out.
Keep in mind, when the original Manu-Gate hit from Kobe took place, it got absolutely zero media attention whatsoever. I was at the game and nobody was talking about it at all afterward. And if you recall, that's why Kobe's suspension seemed to come out of the blue, because nobody had been discussing the hit. When I heard Kobe got suspended, I was wracking my brain trying to figure out why.
That it's starting to take some time to get discussed (assuming it does become a topic) isn't entirely surprising. Especially if it didn't immediately catch the attention of any Pistons coaches or front office people (who'd be inclined to call for a review).
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 24, 2007 at 02:50 PM
KL,
"“No - regular season MVP. Yep, the same Shaq who anointed Kobe as the best player in the game in the not too distant past.”
That was Shaq’s attempt to placate “green with Envy” Bryant. come again."
HA HA - so *Shaq* was attempting to placate Kobe by anointing him MVP in a season where his own team got swept by the Bulls in the first round..
Yes that makes a lot of sense!
Posted by: hariyahu | May 24, 2007 at 02:50 PM
Fatty,
Nice take.I absolutely agree the spat should have never seen daylight.But it is far from being insignificant.The problem is conflicting interests and Kobe/Phil not seeing the bigger picture.Buss had to respond publicly for two reasons...
1) Kobe and Phil are obviously big powerful players in the organisation but you still have to keep them in their place and he sent a message.I do not think he was unreasonable about Phil ...he basically just said 'I let you do your job even though I dont always understand and you have to let me do mine.'
2) More importantly the lakers are now trying to 'sell' certain players to other teams.Phil has spent the entire season publicly running down the two guys who are our biggest trade chips (assuming you dont want to trade Lamar).
THIS is THE problem...Phil has questioned Bynums work ethic and questioned Kwames commitment...dont you think it would be a hell of alot more sensible to have focussed on the positives even if it were not true? 'oh yes Kwames been hurt all season hes so brave suiting up'...etc...Buss gives Phil the benefit of the doubt with his methods becasue he understands hes trying to win but if you know anything about building impressions or selling or what a 'meme' is then you will see that Phils approach compromises the value of the very players we want to tempt other teams with....and if that doesn't do it Kobe's rant sure as hell did.
Phil and kobe are so concerned with showing that they are not responsible for any failure they have that they forget the bigger picture of the organisation being in it together.Jim Buss HAD to get the other side of the story out there at that point.
so it is three sins
1) Phil, Kobe...we cant agree on what to do on the blog so you can bet your a$$ its not much easier within the organisation but these guys wouldnt appreciate management giving them tips in timeouts so let the guys whose role it is do it and if youve gotta stick your oar in do it in private
2) Jeanie Buss should have just let Buss do his job and handle his business how he felt in needed to be handled before reacting
3) Rambis...who is he ...Spartacus? no credit for speaking up and putting yourself on the line for what you believe in here...keep the bigger picture in mind.
Posted by: Kiwi | May 24, 2007 at 02:55 PM
All right, i've come up with a new trade scenario that makes sense in a lot of ways.
First of all, I think that Chad Ford is nuts for suggesting the trade that he did in his chat today. The lakers would be giving up way too much to get this trade to go through. I actually like the idea of marquis daniels and david harrison coming over. Daniels has shown some point guard potential and can play a similar role to what Ron Harper did for Phil's old team. Harrison is a beast too. If you take a look at this numbers when he started in place of JO, he's got some real game. He just never got any minutes playing behind JO and then when the trade with the warriors happened, they felt they needed to play Diogu as justification for the trade. But giving up our whole frontline and a number one pick is just not worth it.
Now to my trade scenario.
Odom, Bynum, Farmar to the Grizzlies for Pau Gasol, Damon Stoudamire and number 4 pick.
Why would the grizzlies do this?
It's obvious that Memphis did not get the pick that they wanted and according to Chad Ford's mock draft, they'd be selecting Al Horford with that pick. Horford's good....but really not worth a number 4 pick. Instead, if they made the trade with the Lakers, they could look at it as if their draft pick netted Andrew Bynum and getting back LO and Farmar for Gasol ain't bad at all.
It would be obvious what the Lakers would be getting in Gasol. Stoudamire would be a nice veteran addition to the backcourt, much like Shammond Williams was at the end of this past season. Stoudamire's a much more polished offensive player and playmaker though. The number 4 pick is the real deal breaker here. I would make this trade in a heartbeat if i knew the Hawks would either trade out of the number 3 pick or if they weren't going to pick MIke Conley. Personally, I think Conley's not worth the number 3 pick for a team with so many holes. They need to be getting the most talent regardless of position. However, for a team like the Lakers who aren't that far away, using the number 4 pick to get Conley would be a great move. Conley's definitely an upgrade in pure talent over Farmar and has shown as much big-game ability as Farmar as well.
Follow-up deal:
Kwame Brown to the Kings for Ron Artest, straight up.
Reasons for this are simple. Artest was a humongous headache last season and the Kings have pretty much given up on him. The Kings are SOFT in the middle as evidenced by Kwame's dominating performance the last two these two teams played. With Kwame, the Kings have a young, developing center who at the very least provides some defensive fortitude unlike Brad Miller. The Lakers obviously want Artest because he can play both sides of the ball and has all-star potential.
Resign Luke Walton.
Use part of the MLE for Joe Smith.
Pick Brandon Rush with 19th Pick.
Projected Starting Lineup:
Conley/Stoudamire
Kobe
Artest
Smith
Gasol
Backups:
Conley/Stoudamire
Evans/Sasha/Rush
Walton/Vlad
Turiaf/Cook
Mihm
The center position would seem to be the weakest but Gasol would be able to handle heavy minutes and if Joe Smith is willing to sign for part of the MLE, maybe the rest can be used for a veteran backup center (Magloire?).
I know it seems like a lot to give up Odom and Bynum for Gasol and a rookie point guard. But honestly, if the Lakers are gonna make any kind of big move this summer...it's gonna be with Gasol and that's what they're gonna want. JO, Garnett, and Kidd just have contracts are way too big for the Lakers to make up the difference. Gasol is the only big name out there with a salary we can work with. But man, i look at that list of backups...that's some crazy depth.
What do you guys think?
Posted by: Danny | May 24, 2007 at 02:58 PM
Watching PTI, and even Wilbon says LeBron should have been suspended. Wilbon: "You can't suspend Kobe, and not suspend LeBron" It's not just us guys. I would like to hear Stu, and Stern explain themselves on sportscenter.
Posted by: Weave-Man | May 24, 2007 at 02:59 PM
LAKOFAN, JOEWESNIXON, AND FKILLAH, WIZO
Sorry. Not shouting at y'all. Just wanted to make sure you guys saw your names among all the other comments.
Okay, they finally showed that LeBron clip on PTI. And because it was on a TV show (as opposed to youtube), the footage was much less fuzzy and.... (like I was hoping for)... I even saw another angle!!!. And after seeing everything better...
I AGREE WITH Y'ALL!!!
If Kobe got suspended for what he did, LeBron should be facing the same treatment. It's pretty much the same thing. Lebron did it with less blatant flailing, theater, pomp and circumstance than Kobe (and much more quickly, which is one reason why I think it flew under the radar), but bottom line, it's much too similar not to get lumped in with Kobe. I'm buying your gripe. Mind you, I don't think the act itself should be considered suspendable (at the very least, not without a formal warning first). But going by precedent, gotta do it.
This could get interesting. Now that it's been on PTI- and for what it's worth, Wilbon didn't notice it when he first watched the game, but both he and Tony thought LeBron should get suspended)- it's gonna get more attention. But I doubt it could garner a league ruling in two hours before tonight's tip. I don't know if you can retroactively suspend a guy for game 3 for a game 1 offense. Maybe you can. I honestly have no idea. I can't recall that situation ever coming up before, so I have nothing to base it on.
If you can (and this becomes a big story), I wouldn't be shocked if Stern suspended LeBron. If he was willing to suspend Amare and Diaw for doing considerably less in a higher profile series, he'd be willing to suspend LeBron in a series that's basically considered a formality to get Detroit into the Finals. I don't think the "star factor" element would necessarily prevent that from happening.
AK
Repost from a discussion with Wizo earlier (because it's on topic):
Keep in mind, when the original Manu-Gate hit from Kobe took place, it got absolutely zero media attention whatsoever. I was at the game and nobody was talking about it at all afterward. And if you recall, that's why Kobe's suspension seemed to come out of the blue, because nobody had been discussing the hit. When I heard Kobe got suspended, I was wracking my brain trying to figure out why.
That it's starting to take some time to get discussed (assuming it does become a topic) isn't entirely surprising. Especially if it didn't immediately catch the attention of any Pistons coaches or front office people (who'd be inclined to call for a review).
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 24, 2007 at 03:10 PM
so you guys want kobe + the pacers lineup?? and think that will better than kobe and this years lakers lineup?? The pacers were horrible. The pacers ARE horrible. why would we trade all of our assests-baller/odom, prospect/bynum, and contract/kwame...for JO??? Cmon guys that is the worst trade ever. Might as well finish it off by trading Kobe and farmar for steve francis and juan dixon... We need to get BETTER, not equally bad by filling our roster with a pacers squad that didnt come close to making the playoffs in the EAST.
Anyone for this trade is a moron. You know nothing about basketball or you simply want to see the lakers flounder in this current depression.
...Actually... that might be exactly why morons like jim buss and cupcake will go for it!!
Posted by: Jandro | May 24, 2007 at 03:13 PM
Michael H,
I'm honestly not sure if you can sign a guy to a one-year MLE, but it doesn't get done often (assuming it's even allowable). From the signing team's perspective, it doesn't strike me as terribly practical. Unless you're pretty deep and just looking to add "that one guy," you'd be screwing yourself out of the chance to get another player for multiple years at MLE-money for someone saying, "I'm only gonna be around one year." You better be very sure this one guy can bring you a championship that same season.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 24, 2007 at 03:21 PM
Sean P,
Your last post made a lot of sense, nice work.
I think there might be a need to take a step back in order to take two steps forward. That might mean trading Odom for an expiring and a top pick in order to have those tradeable assets in a bigger trade.
Again, it won't be a one year fix here, it's going to take a couple.
If the Lakers made the trade of LO to Boston for Ratliff and the No. 5 pick, they'd have over $20 million in expiring deals and a two blue chip prospects. That's plenty to get someone like KG, JO, or Gasol without getting rid of half the roster.
The front office will have to definitely get creative and think not just for this offseason but make moves, if any at all, to set us up to be big players in the future.
Posted by: Andrew Z | May 24, 2007 at 03:26 PM
Generic_One,
Yeah, I did not include all names of F/A but the ones that are attractive enough and better than the player we are replacing.
The $75M expenses for players -- that will be our budget for next year after including the luxury taxes perhaps of $5M aside from the MLE. This year we spent $ 77M w/o luxury taxes but overpaid or shall we say over estimated the value of BGrant.
I guess we should focus our discussions on these players who will really be available. As far as the most sought names via trade, well that will involve our players like Lamar, Andrew and the rest. That's also a lot of speculation that they wanted our players or willing to go on multiple team trades.
GO Anaheim Ducks, win for the Lakers!
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | May 24, 2007 at 03:30 PM
michael h,
Yes, you can sign someone to the MLE for one year, but like AK said, it's not very likely.
I think we should sign Chris Mihm to a one year $15 million contract and then at the deadline we can trade his expiring deal, Andrew Bynum, and two first rounders for KG.
I'm pretty sure that's not allowed, but sounds like a good idea, huh?
Posted by: Andrew Z | May 24, 2007 at 03:31 PM
Our projected roster if we get Artest for Kwame, and sign Bell:
Bell
Kobe
Artest
LO
Mihm or Bynum
Bench:
Farmar
Evans
Luke
Turiaf
Mihm or Bynum
We still would probably need some help at center but that's not a bad roster. If you look at the guys that I listed on the roster, we all pretty much agreed that they played hard, and could be valuable assets. Guys like Cook, and Vlad (I don't know if I'm totally ready to give up on him) can be used to get us some help in the front court.
Think about the trend in the league now. Everybody wants to run, and shoot. What two players on our roster fit that style perfectly?
What do y'all think?
Posted by: Weave-Man | May 24, 2007 at 03:37 PM
KL... I like the fact you dont just come on here bag Kobe then slope off once you are asked to justify yourself...anyhow to business...
'agreed, but kobe could have signed BEFORE trading shaq, thus allowing laker management to at least trade for expiring contracts to rebuild. what’s up with taking Grant’s monster contract for 3 years?? Grant should be playing in a wheelchair with his bad knees.'
-Yes this would have been better...but you have to remember kobe was a free agent with his own agenda.I guess he wasn't sure what would happen or how much money would be free.
'my view is that Shaq was prepared as long as kobe gave the Big Lazy some respect and dignity. Look at Hari “come again”’s comment that shaq declared kobe to be the best player in the league. kobe repays the olive branch by ratting out shaq in CO. what’s up with that?? if I were shaq, I’d want to pound kobe into oblivion for ratting me out. no kobe-blogger can refute this fact (I’ll give credit to G_O for at least acknowledging that it wasn’t cool).'
- Kobe made a mistake in Co, no doubt but he had no idea it would go public and he was under some stress.I agree it is unforgiveable but it was also a long time ago.Its not 'ratting out'.It was simply poor judgement....I always thought it sucked when Shaq would act like a prat then come out with these insincere statements like 'I want to win him an MVP award' it was just so transperantly crap...it would have rubbed me the wrong way.
'Garnett isn’t the “best player on the planet” and MN is no LA'
true it should be easier in LA and the test of that is now really...but my point still stands.The situation has to be good and the team has to be good.Very few players can persuade other players to play for peanuts...payton,Malone was special circumstances.I think the attraction was the package not Shaq per se
- Miami and the spurs were the Finley sweepstake teams and both recruited him heavily.He will have a title in the next month or so.
- The year before Shaq arrived Miami started really slow and were alot better than the 42 -40 record would suggest. They won in the first round without home court then pushed the pacers to 6 games.They might have needed shaq to put them over the edge but Wade was always going to improve significantly and it was obvious the team had a bright future.
'I hope kobe will grow wiser as he gets older? as for leading a team to a winning squad, I will concur, but leading one to a championship…………dubious. kobe reminds me of a DWilkins (no disrespect intended), not a Jordan.'
- I think its fairly unanimously agreed upon that Kobe is the player who most resembles Jordan in temperament.Plus hes already won titles and is better than Wilkins ever was.
'I disagree. LBJ is building up his teammates. Cavs aren’t not suppose to win in Detroit. I’ll guarantee that by the time LBJ’s career is over, he’ll be competing for championships and guys like Marshall (not necessarily Marshall) will hit a game-winning shot………….hey does BJ Armstrong, Paxon, Longley ring a bell?'
I think you misunderstood me here.I was not criticising Lebron...merely saying if you are Lebron everyone will say you wont step up for the big shot (or you cant hit them...remember?) and its just crap sensationalism by people who need to hype it up...same goes for Kobe...my point is you have been listening to it too much and bought into the idea that kobe cant or wont do this and that...I dont believe there is any fundamental flaws that will render him unable to win a title...I dont believe he still hasnt got the memo that he needs to do more than score to be remembered as great.Perfect human being ...no...but you are certainly taking the negative sensationalism very literally and not reading between the lines.You are making him out to be as bad as the apologist you detest make him out to be good....the truth is it is somewhere in the middle.
Posted by: Kiwi | May 24, 2007 at 03:41 PM
...and remember KL.im doing this for you...I think it is sad that you love the lakers but detest their star player.That must cause all kinds of cognitive dissonance haha!
Posted by: Kiwi | May 24, 2007 at 03:43 PM
wow k's my post went up quick...I must be a trusted member of the blogging fraternity...on the down side you obviously dont read my posts hahaha
Posted by: Kiwi | May 24, 2007 at 03:44 PM
AZ,
The problem with that kind of move, Lakers will always be developmental always within the cap but we're risking our hold on PJ and Kobe. A low draft pick is a develomental objective, getting Ratcliff is like tanking games in order to get a cap space in '08. When will that stop?
Danny,
That's a lot of selling to do with those trades. Do they agree with Laker players? Why don't we confine on the free agents who unrestricted by 07/01?
Lastly, the only way we could trade the rest of the Lakers except Kobe if KG is on the other end. If it was Jason, Mike Bib or Jermaine are they good enough to merit that kind of harm to our present team?
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | May 24, 2007 at 03:45 PM
Kiwi
Phil dissing his players in public. Phil the Zenmaster, does things in a strange way. We try and interpret him on the blog, and somethings he says, I can't find a rhyme or reason why he would say that.
Vladimir is a Space Cadet?
Calling Bynum out, a Kid who just learned to tie his shoes?
I know he is trying to get them to put out more effort, but some of the things he says could be getting the opposite effect from some players.
But each of the sinners were guilty of trying to tell each of there compadres what they were doing wrong, with there own job, publicly. And not there own face.
They all had truthful things to say, but sometimes uttering it with kindness, and privately, will get a point across better.
What each person said wasn't that big of a deal. It's going public shows there is some tension brewing among the relationships. Even Jeannie said, they could readily contact each other, but she didn't do it, and went public instead. All of them were guilty of not talking to each other.
"The tongue is the most powerful member of the body" No kidding. Hopefully, wednesday's meeting set the matter straight and Pappa Buss sent them all to bed with a good tongue lashing.
Rambis speaking out:
With my school of management, if one of my workers speaks out publicly ctriticizing management, I do two things. 1. Analyze what I did to cause him to say something publicly. And 2. Then fire him for building seeds of discontent in the business. I have a small family business that can't tolerate someone bringing down others with a bad attitude.
Now, do you see how we are talking about this matter privately, respectfully, tendered with kindness. The Buss family could learn something from us. lol
Fatty
Posted by: Fatty | May 24, 2007 at 03:51 PM
Andrew Z:
"I'm pretty sure that's not allowed, but sounds like a good idea, huh?"
Yeah, because of Base Year Compensation (BYC), that wouldn't really work. Basically what that means is if you sign a player for a new contract at more than the regular 20% raise, then he'll actually be worth half of the value to the team that is trading him and the full value to the team that is receiving him. So, if we signed Mihm to $15 million then he'd only be worth $7.5 million on our end of the trade, but the Wolves would be taking the entire $15 million.
Would be nice though, right?
Posted by: generic_one | May 24, 2007 at 03:58 PM
AK,
You could sign him to a one-year MLE, with the unspoken understanding that you would give him a more appropriate salary the next year.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | May 24, 2007 at 04:09 PM
I can just picture Stern and Stu praying desperately that nobody would see or mention Lebron's "unnatural basketball movement". They must be s****ing in their pants after watching the clip being aired on PTI. Why hasn't Lebron been suspended yet? Please don't tell me Stu missed that foul while reviewing playoff games. They are purposely ignoring it hoping it will go away. There is no other explanation. Their vendetta against Kobe is going to bite them in the a$$.
Many of you, including AK/BK, have said that you don't believe in any conspiracy against Kobe. What is it going to take for you to believe??? Do you guys need a document that states, "the league wants to bring Kobe down". Isn't it clear by now that Kobe does not receive any calls from the refs? Is there a superstar that receives less calls than Kobe, past or present? Kobe is being targeted by the league offiice, the refs, and the media. OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE! This Lebron inident is just the cherry on top.
Posted by: mitchell | May 24, 2007 at 04:21 PM
KL,
How can you post that long? I guess you got nothing to do. Do you have a permanent job? A normal person who have more important things to do will not spend his/her time posting a post that long. Do you have a life? Get married and spent more than with your wife and kids instead of posting a long, boring, senseless, stupid post like that.
Posted by: dacsila | May 24, 2007 at 04:26 PM
Fatty
pleased to hear you deal with your situations that way...you must be better to work for that wiZo lol
anyway I guess these guys are dealing with stuff that it is pretty hard for any of us to fathom...apart from maybe Flea (I know your out there somewhere brother...)
I still doubt theres any real serious issues everyones just getting a bit excited...theres plenty of reasons for them to sort it out.Phil does his thing and I agree it might not be the best way...but becasue you cant argue with his record they let him do it...but it does make managements job harder.The battle doesnt stop because the season is over...
Posted by: Kiwi | May 24, 2007 at 04:31 PM
I think I have the best plan ever. I'm sure there are going to be haters but I dont care. I just read on yahoo that Portland not only wants Oden but his buddy Mike Conley as well. I really want the lakers to try and trade up to get Mike Conley. Here how I see it. Trade Bynum, Odom, and next years first round pick as well as this year's first round pick to the Celtics for the number 5 pick. Take Conley at that pick, then trade Conley to Portland for Jarret Jack, Aldridge, and next years pick for Conley. If they want him so bad, they'll do it. How do you guys feel about that?
Posted by: Brian | May 24, 2007 at 04:41 PM
KL,
You are an odd one. I guess I shouldn't question your loyalty to the Lakers....at the same time, its odd for such a loyal fan to have so many mixed up facts! You have this odd hatred for Kobe that causes you to make all these assumptions without a lot of evidence. Really, none of us, except maybe the K bros can say if Kobe is a jerk or not. But from our limited resources, I don't see how you can call him that. He makes an effort to encourage his teamates, he gives to various charities, he visits and gives to his old high school, I mean, I'm sure he's no saint but why call him a big jerk? As far as the Shaq stuff, I think your facts are just way off base. But, I'm simply drained from talking about the Shaq/Kobe stuff for years. That is why I was exasperated. Ultimately, everyone had a role in what went down, certain parties deserve more blame than others. But most "pro-shaq" Laker fans really don't even put in the effort to get the facts straight, and there's no point discussing the issue then. At least Kiwi is here to hold down the fort in that area.
I'll give you some cred KL for being loyal to the Lakers for so long, (though like Kiwi, I don't understand how you love a team and hate its best player.....are there also Cavs fans out there that hate Lebron? Or Timb fans that hate KG? its just a weird concept to me.) but I don't think you can call me a bandwagon fan either. I've followed the Lakers loyally for over 20 years now was well (gee, saying that DOES make me feel really old) since I was a kid and saw my first Laker game. I was a little kid and saw the Lakers, and the Chicago Bears won the Superbowl that year as well, so in a sense I became a bandwagon Lakers and Bears fan cuz they were good....but they were the first teams I've liked and I've stuck with them my entire life. And I don't think fans will turn on Kobe even when he's bad...esp after what he's accomplished here. I know whenever I see Horry or Fish do well, I'm happy to see them do well. I was a huge Vanexel fan and I followed his career wherever he went and even bought all of his jerseys (except the San Antonio one...cuz well, that would be too weird).
But youre entitled to your opinion and prediction. My own prediction is this....it is far less likely we turn on Kobe, and more likely that when Kobe retires, all the Kobe haters will rejoice, but then a few years down the line, they will realize what a special player he was and realize they wasted so many years hating him and missing out on just enjoying one of the best players to play the game.
Posted by: wiZo | May 24, 2007 at 04:42 PM
Michael h,
aloha. BTW, Hawaiian food is da best. I love the spam musubi.
“Your star [Shaq] is embarrassing you and with a max deal for Kobe you have little cap space to add anyone else?”
who won the title in 2005? haha! who’s closer to a title, shaq or kobe? haha. kobe’s a one-man show, shaq grandaddy knows how to win. simple as that. you know what embarrassing? it’s the LA fans chanting “kobe MVP” for someone who’s done nothing but win scoring titles. the laker TEAM is .500 in the regular season, .500 in the playoff……what the hell is so MVPish about that?
“Then he trashes the entire organization. Then he trashes, you and me, the L.A FANS!!”
you know why the Big Lazy trashed LA fans?? because LA fans are truly du-masses who don’t appreciate. After Magic, Shaq brought the championship back to LA and du-mass LA fans repay the Big Lazy by calling him the………..well, Big Lazy. I’d trash LA fans too. Just look on this blog, people like you, Faith and the rest of the kobe-lovers trash Shaq til no end. The dude was responsible for bring the title back to LA, your boy kobe “me, my legacy and I” Bryant was too concerned with his INDIVIDUAL goals to realize that making shaq mad was not the best idea. your boy kobe’s the biggest player hater off all hating on shaq during those championship runs. now your boy crybaby-bryant is biatching that he doesn’t have enough “talent” around him. you can’t have it both ways.
“And he trashes the city of L.A. And this is the guy you are still crying over?”
I ain’t crying over nuthin’. as a matter of fact, I’m very happy to see the development of Dwade as a leader and a truly great player, not the wanna kobe-“me is I” greatness. I also enjoy watching the anti-kobe, LBJ, contending in the playoffs while king kobe sits at home watching UFC and playing PS3 hating on LBJ for taking kobe’s spotlight away. it’s suppose to be kobe in the spotlight, not LBJ right? who’s the crybaby now?? haha!
“He is 36 yrs old, on an aging team with not a lot of cash to rebuild, his coach is contemplating retiring again and the Dallas trade rumors are flying. Isnt it time to just let Shaq go?”
either way, shaq got his revenge by winning a title WITHOUT kobe. haha!
hari,
“HA HA - so *Shaq* was attempting to placate Kobe by anointing him MVP in a season where his own team got swept by the Bulls in the first round..”
dude, how old are you? do you remember in 2004 (or 2003?) shaq came out publicly and said that kobe’s the best player in the league? BTW, who won the championship in 2005? answer, it ain’t the LA Kobes.
kiwi,
“I always thought it sucked when Shaq would act like a prat then come out with these insincere statements like 'I want to win him an MVP award' it was just so transperantly crap...it would have rubbed me the wrong way.”
I’m partially with you on this one. who knows what the true agendas are, but at least shaq made an attempt, albeit, insincere attempt to transition kobe as the #1 guy in LA. come on, we all knew it was going to happen. deep down inside, I was hoping kobe would mature just enough to know that he had the power (and with great power comes great responsibility) to dictate shaq’s fate. come on, we all knew that kobe would push shaq out if given the chance, kobe had a choice to continue the laker tradition by taking over much like how Magic took over from Kareem. either way, it is what is it. it’s kobe’s team now, so I expect kobe to do more than just put up individual numbers A 50-win season and a semi-conference appearance playing TEAM ball all season will change my mind a little bit.
“I think the attraction was the package not Shaq per se”
of course it’s the package, I’m not a complete fool (although my fellow bloggers will disagree), that’s why it’s so hard to get back to championship form. look at the Spurs, you think a team with KG and Kobe (best case scenario) can beat the Spurs (assuming the Spurs don’t get old real quick in the offseason)? maybe yes, maybe no, but the point is that we use to kick the Spurs a$$, now we’re a side-show.
“I think its fairly unanimously agreed upon that Kobe is the player who most resembles Jordan in temperament.”
temperament yes, savvy no.
“I dont believe there is any fundamental flaws that will render him unable to win a title”
I don’t buy into this or that, I’m looking at the laker team. if the laker team win then kobe will be vindicated (I’ll settle for playing the right way…….team ball), if they lose, it’ll be kobe’s fault, it’s just the way it is. there is no excuse for dribbling the ball 7-10 times in the half court, then jacking up a bad shot or passing so someone else will have a bad shot. nothing gets me more mad than seeing kid kobe dribble, dribble, dribble, then jack up a bad shot. I remember numerous times during the playoff (except for game 3) where someone was standing under the basket ALONE and kobe still jacked up the shot………..pass the rock fool!
“That must cause all kinds of cognitive dissonance haha!”
Yes Dr. Kiwi………LOL. man I haven’t heard that term since undergrad Psychology. Come to think of it, I really don’t get that mad because I’m a fan of the sport, then a laker fan, then a fan of individual stars. I just don’t happen to like the way kobe conducts himself. I’ll admit that his skillz are tremendous, but I would rather see a great team play, than a great player play. when I was younger, I would get razzled dazzled by the dunks and fadaways, but I’m that I’m older, I appreciate the sport in a different way. yo, nice chat, but I gots to get back to work. you stay cool.
Posted by: KL | May 24, 2007 at 04:43 PM
KL,
Wow, way to post an inconsistent cop-out of your previous posts. So, now you're not saying that Kobe needs to attract "great players" (which, by the way, IS what you claimed before, and claimed in your responses to other bloggers), he's got to get his teammates to play "great"... so, Kobe's essentially got to be the coach now?
You're attributing an AWFUL lot of agency to Kobe, like he's making the deliberate choice to "be the Man" and "win scoring titles" as opposed to championships. Do you watch the games? Do you see Kobe leading the team in assists? Do you see him smiling and hi-fiving his teammates when they make the open shots that he sets them up for? How, exactly, is it Kobe's fault when Smush bricks an open 3? If Kobe is so interested in being "the Man" and winning scoring titles, why is he so upset at the current circumstances?
The truth is, all the evidence suggests that Kobe is trying his best to do whatever he needs to do to have the team win. Phil admits that the only reason Kobe went on the scoring tear late in the season is because he asked him to. Is Kobe supposed to ignore what the coach tells him to do? Would that make him more of a "team player" to you? Kobe could easily put up 30 points every night, but he doesn't, does he? He doesn't even try to. Why didn't he ask to be put back in in the 4th quarter of the 62 point Dallas game? If scoring and being the Man was that important, he would have gone back in, but he had done his job, we were winning the game, and that was what was important to Kobe.
It's pretty obvious that you just don't like Kobe, and are looking for ways to "prove" that he's somehow a lesser player. Look, no one's saying that you have to like Kobe - you can dislike him all you want. But allowing your hate to cloud your analysis of his play is just wrong. Your reasoning gets fallacious and inconsistent. Your hate is poisoning you, man.
Posted by: SBPimp | May 24, 2007 at 04:48 PM
AK,
If I recall correctly, the NBA was very quick to take action against Kobe and suspened him without warning. Given that the leauge suposedly reviews all plays during the regular season, they did a remarkable job in scanning for Kobe's incident and were equally quick in taking action. But this is the playoffs, where there is only 2 games being played! There is absolutley no excuse for Stu and his henchmen to not notice this incident. Moreover, the leauge had 3 days in between games! I mean give me a break. Until someone provides a good argument as to why Lebron is not being suspended in a quick manner (if at all), I will completly buy into the notion that there is a bias against Kobe. Glad you saw what we saw, welcome back.
Posted by: fkillah | May 24, 2007 at 04:54 PM
Fatty,
I don't want to use pre-school tactics, but Jim the power tripping heir to the Laker dynasty started this mess by calling out the coaching staff on air. Jim should have never done that, and I think (hopefully) he realizes the mistake he made. I could understand how irked both Jeannie and Kurt may have felt, but they should have handled it privately. I think Rambis spoke out because a) he wanted to take a stance and defend the coaching staff and b) he might land a head coaching job elsewhere. Either way, Jim should know better as he has a lot of power and will only become more powerful. Cue in the sad song..tears..
Posted by: fkillah | May 24, 2007 at 05:09 PM