i have a good feeling that the lakers will trade for artest this offseason..
and probably get Gasol..Jerry West will be back as a consultant..and we will spend
the MLE on a solid PG..the 19th pick will be traded..

Brylle

Artest, Vladimir, and Luke at the three. That's possibly 19 mil for all three. Way too much for that position. When we need more money devoted to the point guard.

Last year Vladimir came in and was signed to be the guy, with Luke as back up. If Artest comes in, Luke or Vladimir will need to go.

A sign and trade with Luke would be our better option because no one will take Vladimir. Some teams may want Luke and they may have a point we want that could lead to a sign and trade. Or Luke may just sign and we lose him for nothing.

If we sign Luke and keep Vladimir, then Artest wouldn't make much sense. Three expensive players and someone not playing?

Fatty

I think that trading bynum right now would be a mistake, as he ended the year pretty weak, and i guarentee he would play much better in the beginning of next year.

Haha, Arthritis Sabonis. But seriously, the guy wasn't just pretty good, even on bad knees the guy was really good. Best passing C I've ever seen and maybe the only C that gave Shaq some trouble. And thats old fogie Sabonis. I've actually seen clips of Sabonis when he was younger (has anyone else? I could never find those clips ever again) ...and from those clips, the guy looked AWESOME. I'm talking about like Kukoc...but a lot better and bigger! There were times he would run the break and finish with a Magic Johnson like no look pass and stuff. Its funny cuz this was way before the Euros emerged in the NBA...and this guy would've been one of the best ever...period.

michael h,
I actually like Bynum and think he will be a good C. At the same time, some people think he is the next coming of Shaq...which he's not. (Yeah, he's only 19, but Shaq, Duncan, Ewing, Oden, etc were all way better than Bynum when they were 19.) But I agree with you that we should only trade Bynum if we get a great deal....but in my book, if we can use Bynum as the main piece to score a Gasol or Jermaine....thats a deal I pull. Bynum is still an unkown and to get a proven all-star in return to me is a great deal. It's like cashing out on an $100,000 investment and netting $850,000....now theres a chance you could make a million, but also a chance you could get 500,000....but I'll take the 850k since we only made a tiny initial investment in the first place and 850k is a LOT. (In essense turning our 10th draft pick into Gasol or Jermaine). Bynum no doubt has a lot of value around the league, but we also have to note that the only reason we might even get Gasol or Jermaine is because they are "on sale". I think if Gasol and Jermaine are happy where they are, there's no way Memphis or Indy even considers trading them for Bynum...and we'd have to involve Odom somehow for sure. (Which I agree with you, is way too much to give up. Odom contributes in so many ways with his ball handling, passing, defense, and is one of the better rebounders in the NBA. And the scary part is, he still hasn't reached his full potential. Man, if only he could get more consistent on his J and develop his right hand! If Odom had a good right hand, I think he'd be a top 10 player in the league.) But the other reason I pull the trade is also cuz of Kobe's window. It's very risky to wait 2 more years to see if we net that "1M" or "500k".
On Oden vs Bynum....Oden's #'s might not blow away Bynum's next year per say....but he'll be a way way better player and much more valuable and contributes to more wins. Oden will be very productive from the very start. And it really depends on how fast Bynum can develop...but in 2 years, Oden's #s might be blowing Bynum's away. I'm surprised when I hear people knock Oden (not you, I mean others in general)...I think in 2 years he'll be the best C in the NBA and a for sure HOF'r.

Andrew Z,
It could be advantageous to wait....but it could also backfire and be a disaster. Its just a gamble. Someone else might make a trade for them...or perhaps suddenly they get better and are no longer disgruntled and no longer demand a trade. And Taos makes a good point about the advantage of getting a new guy in training camp to learn the triangle. I say strike while the iron is hot!

Oscar,
"Andrew Bynum is going to average a Double-Double next year, hopefully its as a Lakers, remember I said this, so I can throw it in everyones face when it happens."
I think he can get that too. Double-doubles are nice....but were trying to get a 20/10 guy here....not just a double double. Those double doubles (10.1 pts and 10.1 rbs) don't make us a contender next year.

Tom,
I agree with AK and BK. I think they hit it on the head saying its a gamble trading Bynum but also not trading him. Which was the point of my analogy above. Even if Bynum reaches his full potential, you have to wonder HOW much better is he going to be than a KG, Gasol, or Jermaine who put up great great #s already. They also mentioned the timing....even if Bynum reaches his potential...were not sure when that is. I think we have to take the proven commodity while we have the chance and while Kobe is in his prime. And who knows, even if Bynum is great in 2010, there's no guarantee we will be contenders even then as we don't know how long Kobe's prime will be and who else will be on the team. Its so hard to win a championship, if given the chance you have to take it.
As far as the Oden effect. I don't think it changes much in my mind. Not only due to the whole timing thing. But also, that I don't necessarily think it is best to have Bynum just to diminish Oden a bit. Keep in mind I think Bynum will be good down the line....but honestly, I think Oden will be much much much better. Oden will be such a force in the middle, I think I'd rather have an athletic, versatile, high powered offense to counteract Oden. I think the best way to counter Oden is to draw him away from the basket or attack him directly as to get him out of position....then the penetrator can dish, but even if Oden alters the shot, have good athletic guys that can crash the offensive board while he is out of position. At OSU, that was the only way teams had any kind of success against him....Oden simply owns the paint and if you try to go toe to toe with Oden in the paint...you'll likely lose. Its almost like Oden is a heavy hitter in boxing....well, it'll be hard to beat him with another heavy hitter that is worse and doesn't hit as hard. I think you're better off trying to use speed and out box the guy.

AK,

I guess it's true , you see what you want to see. The video is pretty clear and Lebron elbowed C-Webb.

I know you defended Kobe, I know you didn't agree with the league on the suspension. But to say that you need other angles of Lebron's moves, please.

It is clear what Lebron did, but i guess we all see what we want to see, even me.

But come on..........

Crap Kobe is still in the Lakers team?

You might as well kiss your playoff games good bye... AGAIN!

Wake up FANS...

Aren't you sick & tired of HOPING although you KNOW the END RESULTS?

LOSERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRSSSS!!!

Lakofan,

No, this isn't a question of me "seeing what I want to see." Or not seeing what I "don't want to see." I don't have any preference for it to look one way or the other way to me. I'm simply saying, the video isn't particularly conclusive to me, because of the angle, the blurriness and the distance it's shot from. I'd need to see more before declaring it the exact same thing Kobe did. I don't think that's much to ask before making up my mind.

By the way, is that from Game 1 or 2?

AK

Gunner,
Don't worry. Nobody is going to take the "dumbest idiot on the blog" award away from you. You can feel safe....unless KL decides to post.

JayJay,
WE NEED ARTEST ASAP!! Artest might be a cancer, but Phil, and Ron's FRIENDS, Kobe and Lamar, will cure it. I'd like to see Raja clothesline Kobe again with Artest by his side.

I THINK YOU ARE TRYING TO TAKE THE DUMBIEST IDIOT AWARD AWAY FROM RAMSES NOW.

MITCHELL AND RAMSES TWO BUTT BROTHERS.

HA HA!

AK,

If you had a gun to your head and was asked if Lebron made an "unnatural" basketball motion, how would you respond? To me, I thought the video clearly showed Lebron swinging his offarm in an unecessary manner. How else can Webber fall to the ground and grab his face? Perhaps he took some acting lessons from Divac while at Sacramento, but I highly doubt it..haha..

I think now that the draft is cleared up and Memphis is destroyed....Pau Gasol would wanna demand a trade....he always wanted to be a popular icon...well in LA he can....plus he's cheap 11 million....we can trade Bynum, Vlade, and 19th draft pick for Pau Gasol....then we can trade kwame for Artest cause the sacramento kings wanna get rid of him.....

http://forums.kb24.com/viewtopic.php?id=8315

Fatty thanks for drawing my attention to that very interesting article...

I think its the same old story (that actually happens in any organisation these days) where everyones trying to cover their a$$

Jim Buss felt it was unfair of Phil (and by phil he means Kobe too) to call the players out in the media and thereby place the responsibility on managment.I didnt get the feeling he was saying Jackson couldnt do this or couldnt do that or he thought Phil couldnt coach young talent...just that when it goes wrong the responsibility may lie in many places and to put all the pressure on the front off office is unfair.

Im sure he would agree that putting all the pressure on Kobe or Phil is unfair too.He was just getting his side of the story across but of course the focus is on him saying 'Phil can't coach young talent' which wasnt what he was saying.He was basically saying there is no point in turning around and publicly blaming one cog in the wheel and I happen to agree with him ...I also liked the fact he gave the other side of the Kwame story.Hes putting Phil and Kobe back in their place and doing what many think the organisation should do...make nobody bigger than the franchise...is he a hypocrate? No as far as hes concerned these other guys started it.He was left no option but to react especially given hes in charge.He needed to defend himself and the balance of power.I see his point - he shouldnt have been placed in that situation in the first place.

Jeanie Buss has her own agenda and is obviously besotted with Phil and completely overeacted to the comments.At least she can see that to a certain extent but she should have stayed out of it or talked to Jim before reacting.She is operating from a position of fear....she appears to dread the day Phil is no longer coach of the team.

Phil has a history of trying to deflect blame ('The last season' anyone?)

Phil has motivation to say something is intrinsically wrong with a player because it means it is not his failure as a coach.Why do we all think Kwame wasnt that hurt? becasue Phil said so...the guys word carries.It could potentially lead to decisions that arent in the best interest of the franchise to keep the fans happy.Particularly if what Jeanie Buss says is true.

If what Jeanie says is correct and he started Farmar becasue of the fans we obviously need to be careful about what we write on here!

On the whole Fatty dont worry ...I dont see this as a big deal.Its been blown out of proportion.I think its good that the guy will step up and keep Phil and Kobes egos in line and the day it doesnt happen we should worry.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GGnnN5BMXwE

If that isnt the same thing as Kobe then what is?

LakerTom,

I've been fairly quiet the past two weeks, very busy, but have taken the time read all the great ideas for the team this summer. As usual, your insight in these matters is very helpful. I've actually been thinking the same thing(s) you are saying. I'm probably more inclined to keep drew now that Oden is in our division. The window for "easy" title shots is about two or three years at the most. I don't think it's beyond us to contend if we make the right moves, but the league and its rules have made it near impossible for teams to improve upon their mistakes. Just look, we were paying Brian Grant this year. What does that tell you? It tells me David Stern could not be more displeased with the results of this draft lottery and the inability for marquee teams to improve. All the powerhouse players are headed to the Pacific. The Eastern fan base has LeBron (which is great, he will go to the finals a lot in his career), but that's it.

The sudden realization that Portland is about to have a solid, young core of players in Roy, Aldridge, and Oden should light the fire under Andrew's butt. He has ZERO chance of making the all-star team in the next two seasons, let alone the next five or six in the West. His only chance is to show an unbelievable amount of improvement and actually become a superstar, and become one really quick. I think Oden going to Portland will hopefully get Andrew fired up, as he is always fired up about playing big name centers. The talk of upcoming superstar centers in the West now centers around Greg Oden... Andrew who??

Kwame's trade value in the west has just gone up as well.

The Lakers are in a tight situation. Our best hope for KG is to pray that McHale continues to be stubborn and that the Hostage crisis continues until the end of next year. Minny will most certainly miss the playoffs again. I highly, highly doubt we can make a trade for him unless he becomes unreasonable like Shaq was. Therefore, we must wait another season and acquire him for pennies on the dollar in 2009 (which would be the only thing to save Kobe from leaving Los Angeles).

Artest is a huge gamble. He's passionate about playing though. This is what our team lacks. He can play defense, this also is what our team lacks. He's never really played with a superstar before... so playing with Kobe would be huge. I think he'd get lost in Phoenix and wouldn't mean nearly as much to them as he would mean to us.

Final Assessment:
Get rid of Cook, Kwame, and probably Vlad.
Acquire Ron Artest.
Farmar will improve in the off season, for sure, guaranteed.
Hang a poster of Greg Oden on Bynum's locker with the caption that says, "welcome to the next 12 years of your life" and then have Oden sign it at the bottom.
With the improved mentality of bringing in Artest and removing unmotivated players such as Kwame & Cook, our team will be much more effective and consistent.
Ride out the year, hope for the best, and then if McHale is stubborn, sign KG for 2009-2010 for a legitimate title run.

It's a gigantic roll of the dice, because if Ron Ron doesn't pan out, and/or KG is traded to a team that he likes, Kobe will leave. Gunner and KL will be dancing in the streets, until they realize, we just became the Charlotte Bobcats.... no, that's not lousy enough, we just became the Celtics-a storied franchise with no forseeable potential to ever see the top ever again.

Edwin Gueco, "Trading this twister GM and new typhoon Kid should be a priority before lakers can improve completely. lol!"
Professor you hit the ball out of the park with that one. There's no since trying to cure
the symptoms when the disease will come right back.

BRAINWAVE!!

Facts:

Phoenix is looking to add to it's bench strength
Phoenix doesn't have an answer for Tim Duncan
Phoenix is feeling the pinch of the salary cap
There are reports of friction between Amare and the Matrix

Lakers need to add another proven scorer/defender.

You can see where I am going with this :)

We trade Kwame (salary cap relief) + Cookie and RadMan (bench+3-pt shooting) to the Suns for the Matrix.

OR

We trade Kwame (salary cap relief) + Bynum (young POTENTIAL stud) + Cookie and Radman (bench + 3pt shooting) to the Suns for Amare PLUS take Banks off their hands.

Before you barf all over "Why the hell would Phoenix want to deal with us?" read the first sentence.

The Amare scenario is less likely, but we could get the Matrix. Phoenix would then have a unit of:

Kurt + Kwame (effectively body up the Duncans of the world)
Amare + Cookie
Diaw + Radmanavoic
Bell + Barbosa
Nash + Banks

And WE would be much better off:

Bynum + Mihm
Odom + Turiaf
Matrix + Walton
Kobe + Mo
MLE + Farmar

Not only do we get that second/third scorer, we also improve defensively - Marion can guard multiple positions and stick it to Nash and Amare when we play the Suns again.

What do you guys think?

Brainwave or brainfart?
:)

Brainfart. No chance the Suns do any deal with the Lakers. You should hear the way Sarver talke about the Lakers organization in the local press and on radio shows. The Suns, their fans, their ownership, all hate the Lakers.

Lamar Odom for Kirk Hinrich, Viktor Khryapa and the 9th pick

Bynum, Kwame, Cook, & 19th pick for Pau Gasol

use 9th pick on University of Washington center Spencer Hawes

use MLE on Chris Webber

Being realistic, which I know is hard to do for you fantasy GMs, I really only see Artest being a possible pickup for the Lakers. Sure who wouldn't want KG, Gasol, JO, Kidd, and so on. BUT the Lakers will not give up Bynum unless it is for KG. I really do think the Lakers think they have a shot at KG when he opts out. With that reality, and till he is traded or Minn resigns him, the Lakers hands are tied. They will not mortgage the future ie Bynum, unless it comes with KG. To me, with Artest, the 2,3,4 postitions are locked down with great players. MLE for a guard, yes, one that can keep a player from getting to the paint for a layup drill. Bynum, Turiaf, Mihm at the 5. Then next year its all about KG or blowing up the team. And if this doesn't pan out, I am afraid this team will be in the rebuilding stages for another 10 years. I really don't think the Laker fans can take that, this last year was enough to put me into a mental ward. From no heart, no defense to why does Phil stick with Smush all year let alone 2 years. I am confused on how Phil lost this team, for players to show him up and not play for him, I really can't fathom on what happened to this coach that has 9 World Championships. We all have to admit, this team on a hussle valuation was pathetic. God, I hope they can work out some type of a trade this year but if Artest is the best we can do, this should be done TODAY!. Artest changes the makeup of this team overnight. Toughness and Defense is something this Laker team needs to learn.

bd

yeah, that's interesting too, who is the mystery PG Phil is looking at? You know it's going to be someone out of left field. Who??? LOL! I've seen Marcus Banks for Vlad Rad rumors but... do we want Banks now? Is he smart enough for our system? Vlad Rad would possibly be a terror in Phoenix, probably Tim Thomas x 2. Who knows?

Anyway, just playing with yesterday's stuff. Let's assume we keep Odom, trade Kwame for Artest and re-sign Walton as 6th man. That means Center and PG need a boost. So either Bynum goes to another level giving us 25-30 solid mins/game and Mihm comes back and plays 15-25 mins/game or we do a combo and sign someone like Magloire (gulp) to back those guys up and give us say... 15 mins/game. Then you could try to trade Vlad Rad and our 1st pick and/or one of our 2nd round picks for the PG, and if the PG is more expensive, you toss in Cook/Sasha, etc. Sadly, I think one of our more valuable trade assets might be Turiaf. He's cheap and a good guy to have around... we might lose him for the PG... sniff...

PG: mystery man/Farmar
SG: Kobe/Mo Evans
SF: Artest/Walton - as 6th man
PF: Odom/Turiaf?
C: Bynum/Mihm/Magloire

well, that's an interesting group... not as exciting as the Gasol mix but we're just having fun here anyway...

Oscar,

I like those deals and they actually seem doable. I think Hinrich is considered untouchable by Chicago, but I'm not sure. If not, I would do it.

I think I would go a different route with the #9 pick though. Either a defensive minded #4 or #3. The only reason I say that is because I really liked being able to have someone athletic guard the other team's best perimeter player that isn't Kobe. Mo Evans did pretty well last year, but if you could get someone a little taller that could play the 3 you'd be set.

I don't know about Webber. When did that guy put on 30 pounds? He looks so old and slow these days. Damn.

Thanks again for the props Mamba24, I'm not qualified to become a professor...just a regular contributor who is sometimes at a loss by the fast changing events with other team while our beloved Lakers remains static. However, there are so many ways to skin the cat, we just have to stay focus and eye for the prize (PJ & Kobe) rather than doing useless PR and finger pointing on K-570.

I have read a lot of posts and lots of good players were mentioned. However, those players are still under contract like KG, JO & J Kidd. There are just so many strings attached in order to get them. We might trade the barn, our Hollywood sign, the Kodak theater and the new America Idol in order to get them. lol!

However, if KG would like to become a Laker and will help us to acquire him, then Bynum & LO might be part of the exchange. For JO & JK or MBibby don't you think disposing two players is just too much for a fair exchange?

There is one thing I'm sure of. If we give up Lamar for anyone but KG, we aren't going to win a hell of a lot more than we've already done. The key is going to be if there is some way to use Bynum and our pics (along with other also rans) to get a quality player AND still keep Kobe and Lamar.

I think all these scenarios fall into 2 categories:

1. We improve a bit, have a better record but don't really challenge SA, PHX, etc...
2. We improve a great deal and have a chance to beat anyone.

Kobe+Artest / Kobe + Gasol / Kobe + JO all fall into #1

Kobe+Artest+Lamar / Kobe+KG / Kobe+Lamar+Gasol/ Kobe+Lamar+JO all fall into #2

If we're going to make a move, I want it to count. Cross your fingers!!!

1. The fact that the Celtics lost the Lottery proves that God is a Laker's fan.

2. The fact that most of this draft's good big men will go West means that Kwame has even less stock on this side of the Mississippi.

3. The fact that most of this draft's good big men will go West means that a good negotiator could frame Kwame has more stock on the other side of the Mississippi.

4. We might get a good rookie PG out of this whole thing, and remarkably wind up having Farmar bring along his own replacement. Or, better yet, have the two compete with each other to be the starting PG.

5. KG sees Minnesota as the sinking ship it is and wants to jump on our bandwagon.

--FearlessWhackJob

designmao and Tom are right. Oden increases Bynum's stock as well. Everywhere.

Wizo,

If Bynum reaches his "full potential"we just solidified at least 5 rings in our futuer, but thats a big "IF". I agree that Bynum does not have that "killers" mentatlity as of yet. I posted that a while ago myself. I said if he could show the same heart he showed when Shaq dunked on his neck, and he came right back an dunked on him, then had the "jawbreakers" to nail him when with an elbow down court. We truely have something special. Then agian it could be one of the flash in the pants moments like when kwame magically learned how to catch the ball dunk for a game against PHX in the playoffs. Time will only tell.

Also unlike the other HS players mentioned, KB,KG, Amare, Tracy, Howard. and soon to be drafted college players Oden and Durant, all of these guys had been playing since they were 2 minutes old. I beleive I read somewhere that Bynum didn't really get into orginazed Bball until he was 14 yrs old. (AK/BK can correct me if I'm wrong). That's 5 yrs of organized ball 3 in HS, 2 in the NBA that's asking alot of anyone especially a teenager. And as much as people praise Oden and Durant the could easily be a bust or not as impactful as we think they will be( Christian Laettner, Chris Washburn,Michael Olowokandi, Sam Bowie, ....anybody) Its all about potential when they are only 19-21 yrs old.