Because the Western Conference wasn't stacked already
There must be Celtics fans tossing themselves off buildings tonight. In any event, the already mammoth Western Conference got a luxurious infusion of star power in tonight's draft lottery, when the Blazers snagged the first pick, followed by Seattle at number two. That means in one form or another, Greg Oden and Kevin Durant are about to make the Pacific Northwest about much more than rain, lush green space, and concern for global warming. About the only thing that kept the E.C. from risking permanent fiefdom (at least as measured by number of quality teams) was Atlanta sneaking up a spot to number three, robbing Phoenix of the opportunity to steal their pick and beef up an already quality squad.
At this point, it's fair to say the Western Conference could get very Lord of the Flies in '07-'08. Not that Portland and Seattle are suddenly going to morph into title contenders, but the Blazers were a pretty good bad team last year, have a ton of potential, and now have the flexibility to move Zach Randolph and get even better. Or keep him and figure out how to work a massive and athletic frontcourt with Oden, Randolph, LaMarcus Aldridge. Or swap picks with the Sonics and take Durant, who fits a little better, in theory. Seattle now has insurance if Rashard Lewis leaves and options if he stays.
Go down the line. Dallas will be good next year, as will Phoenix, San Antonio, Utah, and Houston (barring major injuries). Considering how they finished, a full season with A.I. makes Denver dangerous, which also describes a talented, improving Golden State team when Baron Davis is healthy. NO/OKC could be better, we've already talked about Seattle and Portland, and the Clippers are at worst mediocre, and could be better depending on how the offseason goes. Memphis has the cap room to get better. Not necessarily good, but they'll have a high pick and the potential to not be crappy. Even Sacramento, as big a mess as they are, still had a crack at a playoff spot last year.
If I'm K.G., I'm checking for real estate outside of Minnesota ASAP. You can make an argument that they'll be the worst team in the conference heading into next year. Not sure I buy it, but that I could reasonably defend that position kind of proves my point. There likely won't be a lot of gimmies next season on this side of the Mississippi.
Work those phones, Mitch.
BK
Yeah, but that was when EVERYBODY was having a career night vs. the Lakers. No on Blake, no faux white guys at PG for the Lakers... LOL!
On Marcus Banks, I wasn't advocating actually doing that trade. I didn't see Banks play at all this year so I was wondering if we would even still want him or if he has the physical tools but isn't mentally strong or so forth.
Charlie Bell? I'm not a big advocate either though I don't hate him as much as Magloire... If Phil wants to bring him in, then obviously Phil thinks he can take Bell to a new level, so that would be fine.
Mike Bibby? I don't know if it's true or not but the word is supposedly his and Artest's games didn't mess well, though that could have been the offense.
Does anybody have the inside info on how the Lakers feel about Kwame? Do they think Kwame needs to be moved or do they feel that after the surgery(s?) for his shoulder and ankle, Kwame could play a full 80 game season and be a solid defensive presence? That would buy another year for Bynum to develop. Say you trade Walton and filler and a 2nd round pick for Artest, if they can get away with it. Then through some miracle they move Vlad Rad and a pick for a PG and pick up a swingman from somewhere, does that improve the Lakers enough where they could at least threaten in the 2nd round of the playoffs next year and then determine what they need to go for the title the next year?
PG: new vet/Farmar/Sasha? the guy will never go away
SG: Kobe/Mo Evans
SF: Artest/new swingman
PF: Odom/Turiaf/Cook? or is Cook gone in trade?
C: Kwame/Bynum/ they could actually keep Mihm as backup C and PF
they need Kwame or somebody like him for defense but... does this still leave Laker Nation screaming for Mitch's head?
Posted by: TaosHum | May 25, 2007 at 11:17 AM
AK,
Most probably trade for Marion than cut him because they can get good players if they trade him. But I read news from Suns that they were planning to want to create cap space. So if you look at the bird's rights increase of Suns players, they will be reaching $76M. If they trade Marion, they don't create cap space but merely change players. The speculations at that time was marion, thomas plus the three 1st rd draft picks for KG. I don't know whether that still stand at this time.
Weave-man,
I did not get these PG's names from the air but took them from ESPN F/T for '07. They are unrestricted agents. I don't know whether Charlie Bell falls that category. First of all, I'd like the definition of unrestricted agent? Isn't we're competing with the home team in bidding for the player? Can the Lakers not outbid the Warriors?
Steve Blake may not be as good as Jason Kidd or Mike Bibby. The assumption if you get Marior, you cannot acquire another double digit salary together with Kobe and Lamar. Now if we focus on that Euro player there are no restrictions there provided we pay his rights from CSKA Moscow.
Mamba24, thanks for the props, I'm just throwing ideas out there that's the best that we can do as fan rather than throwing mad at each other on topics that cannot be resolved like: Is Ron Artest good or bad? Why is AK & BK not laker fanatics? Should we trade Kobe? Did we get a good trade from Shaq? Whatever answers derived from these questions will not improve the Laker team, so just keep on throwing ideas that may work.
By the way, I'm curious I have not been hearing any post from the great mind Mike T. Did we hurt his feelings in junking Kwame? Mamba 24, if there is any guy qualified to be a professor without formal training, here is the guy. We all learn something from his Jackson Journal whether it is a good idea or a horrendous opinion.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | May 25, 2007 at 11:22 AM
Edwin,
I can promise you, there's no way Phoenix will simply waive Marion. Aside from the fact that he's way too good and productive a player to simply part ways and get nothing in return, they'd still owe him 33 mil over two more seasons.
Could they trade him for contracts that clear cap space? Sure, although I think they'd be insane to do it. But I'll bet any amount of money they won't just waive him (or even do a buy out). That would be illogical.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 25, 2007 at 11:29 AM
The NBA sucks completely: Stern seems to think that people in America will turn away from their regular tv programs in order to watch the spurs v. utah and cleveland v. detroit. That's non sense. As much as I'm in odds with the Laker Dis-organisation, I admit that the salary cap it's a stupid rule, the NBA is paying for it and that gives the Laker Mis-management an excuse for constantly making bad decisions or not even making any decisions.
Now the big market and historic organisations like the Knicks, Lakers, Celtics are going nowhere because the league "wants to keep competition up". ha ha as if the BORING Spurs have not dominated the league left and right during the last 5 years. Have the Yankees in the MLB have won every World Series because they have a $200 million payroll?..No!!!...but thanks to that payroll they have a competitive team every season and thats what a market like New York and a historic franchise like the Yankees simply deserve.
Posted by: karl | May 25, 2007 at 11:40 AM
LA Guy-
I just read your myopic post about Lebron's non-suspension. The thing is, that's not the only example. What about the play where Gasol hit Kobe in the face after getting the ball swiped from behind? The fact is, the league is clearly making up rules on the fly, then changing them when it becomes clear they won't work.
The question is, what happens next year when the identical play keeps happening? Will Stu Jackson suspend every time? Apologize to Kobe and the Lakers? Or just pretend the whole thing never happened? Is Kiwi going to post something on here slamming Lebron James for being a dirty player (the way he wrote dissertations trashing Kobe?) What about Chris Sheridan? Is that guy getting enough oxygen to his brain? So many questions....
Posted by: McGarnagle | May 25, 2007 at 11:40 AM
Fatty,
like I said... Fans will be fans... think outloud all you want...
doesnt make what you say logical, right? And for that matter, what I say isnt by default logical either right?
Its funny to me that our fans want us to sign middling, journeyman players and and make outlandish sweeping trades that will revolutionalize the Lakers. We need to upgrade Smush Parker not resign him in another form. If we are just going to get a "better attitude" player than Smush Parker but with less skills I dont want him. I'd rather let Jordan Farmar play 30 minutes a night and turn into a solid 1.
So is our PG situation really helped if we sign:
Steve Blake: No on-ball D, shaky/streaky perimieter shooter, limited playmaking skills. W
Charlie Bell: Have you guys seen Milwaulkee play? As our starter?.Yea, he's OK but nobody I would use my MLE on. Maybe half of that.
Marcus Banks: IF you cant succeed in a system like Phoenix's then damn, where can you? All he had to do is knock down open shots, use his incredible speed, and hit the open man consistently. NOw he is a great on-ball defender, but I am not willing to TRADE for the 2nd coming of Tyronn Lue. Are you?
So I ask the bloggers to really think about what really helps the Lakers for next year.
To me its simple, the Lakers need an IMPACT player. Doesnt matter the position cuz we arent that deep. IF you get an Artest then you have a guy who will draw fouls, will play great D, will scoring 15-20 a game. IF you get a Jermaine Oneal, you have a guy who will block 2-3 shots a game, who will get 10 boards a game, who will get 15-20 points a game.
Thats the only surefire way IMO to get the Lakers in the range of 3 -5 seed instead of 6 - 8 seed. (I believe 1 & 2 seeds are only for teams that have played together for awhile and have a tradition of success.) That's the quick way.
Now if you want to go 'long term' then you hope and pray that Walton, Farmar, and Bynum all improve next year. You hope Vlad Rad can actually do something positive this year (like 10-12 pts a game + 5 rebs) You hope to get a productive player AND SCORER in the draft. And you hope Lamar Odom becomes the player he was in Game 5 of the Suns series every game.
I dont know about some Laker fans but I want option #1, I dont want Kwame Brown on my team anymore and I wouldnt mind getting rid of Brian Cook either.
Posted by: Korey | May 25, 2007 at 11:40 AM
AK,
I dont think its the league in general that is keeping Kobe down. It's the referees. I think some of them have their own personal agenda.
Posted by: zen | May 25, 2007 at 11:44 AM
I've been reading that Phoenix will probably trade Amare over Marion. "Chemistry problems" was the reason.
People can hate on Kobe's game all they want. He's got flaws for sure. The one thing we have to realize as Lakers fans is that, love him or hate him, Kobe's not going anywhere. Management is just going to have to do their best to put players around him who are better than the players around him this past year.
Posted by: B$ | May 25, 2007 at 11:50 AM
B$:
"Maybe Darius' head problems are from living up there in Portland where there's no sun. It's a genuine affliction some people get depressed if they don't get enough sunlight. SAD I think it's called. Seasonal Affective Disorder or something like that. If he came back to L.A."
I lived in Southern Oregon for three years before moving up here to Seattle (keep on moving further north it seems) so I got to read a lot about the problems the Blazers were having with him. The reason I really dislike the guy is because of the way that he had treated Mo Cheeks and his general arrogant attitude that was constantly pervading the Portland franchise. He could be a really good player, it's just a shame he's even more of a bastard than most.
Posted by: generic_one | May 25, 2007 at 11:51 AM
LA Guy,
You were the one to first call me out. Secondly, I can't speak for the other bloggers. Truthfully, I never read your posts up until now so I had no idea that other bloggers were calling you an "idiot," "moron," etc. I think that's more between you and them. But I do agree that name-calling is uncalled for and should not be tolerated.
Posted by: fkillah | May 25, 2007 at 11:53 AM
Fatty, Kiwi
I was suspecting something a while ago and was very surprised seeing your post (joke with Faith) I couldn’t believe that somebody else is thinking the same thing. However, I still think they are using one or two other names here and there. I have my reasons for my strong reaction.
Ventriloquist
Posted by: Ventriloquist | May 25, 2007 at 11:54 AM
Edwin,
I don't know if you were being serious or not, but the difference between a restricted FA, and an unrestricted FA is the restricted FA's team has a certain amount of days (I think 15) to match any offer made to their player, while an unrestricted FA can go anywhere they choose without their teams interference.
Charlie Bell is a restricted FA, but Milwaukee probably isn't going to offer him much if anything since they're going to have to pay Mo Williams, and will probably make an offers to Boykins, and Patterson. As far as Ellis goes there is no way we could out bid GS for him since we only have the MLE, and they can offer him a max contract.
And I know you like Steve Blake, but if you look Bell has better numbers across the board. Blake is gonna get a lot of recognition because he is better known, but Bell is the better player for our system, and our money.
Posted by: Weave-Man | May 25, 2007 at 11:55 AM
wesjoenixon,
I wrote to the leauge yesterday and suprisingly, have not heard a response for them. As fans, I think the only thing we can do is write to the NBA and hope that our voices are heard and represented. I encourage all the frustrated fans to do the same.
Posted by: fkillah | May 25, 2007 at 11:56 AM
Korey,
Who do you suggest for PGs?
You see good PGs like Deron Williams, Mike Bibby, Chris Paul they are not listed as unrestricted F/T this coming July, it would be useless to discuss their prospects if they are not available or if they will taken through trades. It's good if we only lose Kwame, Vlad, Sasha et al but to take Lamar and Bynum with one player then that weakens our line up as well. We have to rely on the latest rumors on who is available on July 1st?
How about the idea of getting Zo Mourning who is on the verge of retiring, I think he can help Bynum improve faster than relying only on the Cap who is not playing. Zo can defend on the post.
If we cannot get Marion, how about the idea on C-Webb, Finley and compete for Chauncey Billups to the optimum, these guys are rumored to opt their contracts at the end of the playoffs.
i still have faith on KG coming to the Lakers, he's just gerrymandering like JO and Jason Kidd. If you look at Minny, there is no improvement out there from the draft, their total salary is 69M, won't they not break apart KG's contract? The only drawback in those acquisitions, we'll surely lose Lamar and Bynum.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | May 25, 2007 at 12:02 PM
AK,
Why would they suspend Kobe for something that happens so frequently in the NBA? Is it to set an example or is it to tarnish Kobe's image? The Kobe suspensions did nothing but diminish Kobe's image, marketablity, and game. I think the leauge definitly screwed Kobe over when they really had no reason to. What bothers me the most is that Stern and Co. is keeping this issue or rather non-issue on the low. That to me is very covert and inexcusable and demonstrates a bias. I mean Lebron is a big star and there isn't much happening in basketball right now other than "was Lebron fouled or not" stories so this flagarant should garner at least one small headline on the ESPN website.
Posted by: fkillah | May 25, 2007 at 12:07 PM
KL,
Can you please stop posting in this blog! Your post is just an eye sore and makes my blood pressure goes up. Enlist in the Marine and go to Irag makes yourself useful for the entire mankind.
Posted by: dacsila | May 25, 2007 at 12:10 PM
FKillah, there's no point in writing the league, I don't think they respond. Tack on to the fact that they're WRONG...they're probably not gonna respond then either. I do think however they read every single one...and hopefully (like you said) voices are heard, especially when it's tons of them lol.
Anyone have any idea who the "experts" are predicting for us to pick in the draft?
Posted by: Faith | May 25, 2007 at 12:11 PM
Fkillah,
Well, I honestly don't think the exact physicality of what got Kobe suspended is a frequent occurance across the NBA, but that's neither here nor there, really.
But back to your question, the better one to ask (in my opinion) would be, "Why would the league even want to tarnish Kobe's image?" Especially now that it's made considerable positive strides since Colorado? To take the progress made by one of their highest profile, most popular and frequently marketed stars and purposely impede it makes absolutely no sense. You're essentially running with a theory that the league is out to trash any ability to capitalize on one of its best assets. That simply follows no logic.
Honestly, I think too many Lakers fans discount the idea that the people running the league are often just plain stupid and overcontrolling, as opposed to vengeful. David Stern is prone to making grandious "statements" (most of which are none-too-subtle ways of reminding everyone he's a taskmaster who gives no quarter), and they often blow up in his face, especially post-Palace Brawl. This, to me, is just another example of it.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 25, 2007 at 12:14 PM
fkillah, "I wrote to the leauge yesterday and suprisingly, have not heard a response for them. "
Right On brother. I'm composing a letter to send to the League also.
Posted by: Mamba24 | May 25, 2007 at 12:16 PM
AK, Korey,
Re: Marion.
One of the things you forgot to mention was that Marion and Amare are butting heads on the alpha-dog status. From what I've read, Marion is highly sensitive and doesn't like to be referred to as the third cog in that machine. For good reason too. But it's becoming apparent that Amare and the Matrix are not the best of buddies.
That coupled with the fact that Phoenix has virtually no bench would at least make it plausible to look for what they can get for the Matrix. Ideally, they would get a couple of bench players and an expiring contract that helps them right away (clog up the middle). Kwame/Vlad/Cookie do all of that. And Boris Diaw is an adequate replacement for the Matrix - so I don't think they will *need* a stud in return.
Now, if you guys think that there is no way in hell Phoenix deals with LA directly (and I'm thinking that the cap space issue is dearer to management than the animosity with LA - we could even send Fatty to negotiate :)), how about involving a third team like Atlanta:
Suns get Kwame, Cookie, Vlad and lose Banks,Marion
Hawks get Bynum, Marion, Banks, Mo Evans and lose Joe Johnson, Josh Smith
Lakers get Josh Smith, Zaza Pachula, Joe Johnson and lose Kwame, Cookie, Vlad, Mo Evans.
This is what the teams would look like:
Hawks:
C - Bynum, Lorenzen Wright
PF - Al Horford (with the #3 pick), Shelden Williams
SF - Marvin Williams, Marion
SG - Childress, Mo Evans
PG - Banks, Lue
They lose Johnson and Smith, but get a potential stud in Bynum and a current stud in Marion, not to mention a chance on Banks.
Suns:
C - Kwame, Thomas
PF - Amare, Cookie
SF - Diaw, Rad
SG - Bell, Jones
PG - Nash, Barbosa
Suns lose the Matrix, but they are now under the cap, can avoid the potential chemistry issues with Amare and rid themselves of Banks.
LA:
C - Mihm, Zaza
PF - Lamar - Turiaf
SF - Josh Smith, Luke
SG - Kobe + MLE (Mo Pete?)
PG - Joe Johnson, Farmar
Mihm + Zaza is not great at C, but hopefully our other 4 positions can compensate. Joe and Kobe in the backcourt would be AWESOME! Plus, if Kwame sucks at Phoenix, we can get him back next year at the MLE.
We could always sweeten the deal with draft picks - what do you guys think?
Posted by: hariyahu | May 25, 2007 at 12:16 PM
Faith,
Exactly, that's why we have to flood there mailbox till it runs out of memory. I think if every single blogger on here wrote a letter to the NBA, one of us are bound to get a response. Hopefully they can give Kobe a ton of make-up calls next year. Wait a minute, a leauge so ethical, fair, and democratic wouldn't do that..hahah..
Posted by: fkillah | May 25, 2007 at 12:19 PM
LA Guy,
BOOHOO - so LeBron didn't get a call. It happens to the best of them (see Bryant, Kobe). Get used to it. And don't complain that the league is screwing him over!
I for one think that he'll be better off for it. He's got to take his lumps before he gets to the next level.
Posted by: hariyahu | May 25, 2007 at 12:22 PM
Weave-man,
No, I'm not really not enamored with Steve Blake but he's an improvement of our current PG's. Well, Charlie Bell is also a good PG and we got torched last season. Being restricted, you have to outbid the Bucks. I just picked Blake's name from the available list of unrestricted agent as you can see from the links below: Don'tyou think we should confine our discussions on unrestricted agents cuz' they're easy picks as you just said on the definition of unrestricted agents. By the way, thanks for giving us the definitions. I have another question, what are the conditions needed for a Superstar player opt out from his contract, forfeit his future salaries and join another team? Can anyone answer aside from Weave-man?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2654216
As I have reitereated, I'm more bullish on those Euro PG's playing the best basketball, good shooters but we're not touching them. (The only Euros we got were Sasha, Vlad and Shammond, as well Slava and Vlade. I still have faith on Vlad, I think that hand injury then the shoulder affected him badly. We're not hearing from other Euro players who are MVP in their league)
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | May 25, 2007 at 12:24 PM
AK,
I follow what you are saying. But I think the leauge would perfer to see a person like Lebron or Wade have greater success than Kobe. Fact of the matter is that Kobe's image will never be fully cleaned up. The only thing he can do is to win another title. But the leauge not making any news of Lebron's flagarant is very alarming and seems to be an admission of guilt.
Posted by: fkillah | May 25, 2007 at 12:27 PM
LOL FKillah. 2 years back when people were emailing clips of Lakers vs. Cavs...by the dozens (at least from this blog) it got worst (last year) lol. Perhaps we should add "worms" to those emails, to show them we're serious haha, jk.
Posted by: Faith | May 25, 2007 at 12:27 PM
hariyahu,
Agreed. Lebron should feel very fortunate that he was even able to play in game 2.
Posted by: fkillah | May 25, 2007 at 12:28 PM
L A GUY
Interested take on Dan Patrick today. They were talking how it appeared that Lebron actually could have been called for an offensive foul for clearing out with his arm and perhaps the ref decided to just let it go since they both fouled. I went back and looked and it sure does look like he did clear out with his arm.
MH
Posted by: michael h | May 25, 2007 at 12:32 PM
Larry Bird on JO
"Will O'Neal return?"
"You never know. I hope so," Bird told NBA Radio. "It's just wait and see what happens. Anytime a guy like Jermaine's involved, you don't just go out and give him away. You have to go out and try to get the best fit you possibly can for your own team. We'll look at everything we can this summer."
Source:Interview with NBA Radio, published in Indystar.com today.
Posted by: Ventriloquist | May 25, 2007 at 12:33 PM
dacsila
“How can you post that long? I guess you got nothing to do. Do you have a permanent job? A normal person who have more important things to do will not spend his/her time posting a post that long. Do you have a life? Get married and spent more than with your wife and kids instead of posting a long, boring, senseless, stupid post like that.”
ah, my favorite personal attack, no life, no job, nothing to do. I actually have a decent job and I am married. I do it during lunch sometimes. yo, if it’s so boring, why do you read??
wizo,
“But I don't see how you can call him that. He makes an effort to encourage his teamates, he gives to various charities, he visits and gives to his old high school, I mean, I'm sure he's no saint but why call him a big jerk?”
just my opinion bro. anybody willing to trade in championship opportunities for self-serving purposes is a jerk to me. you see, I’m very much a team guy in life, so I weed out the kobe’s of the world……my life is much easier by not having to deal with the kobe’s of the world. BTW, I will give credit to old kob for the charity work, but my “jerk” comment is limited to the b-ball court. kobe could be the best guy in the world, but I think he’s a jerk on the court. cool?
“though like Kiwi, I don't understand how you love a team and hate its best player.....are there also Cavs fans out there that hate Lebron?”
it’s quite the conundrum. I have a hard time with it too. I really want kobe to develop into a good team guy, but he’s getting a little old. maybe after 3 embarrassing years, kobe will see that he had it good and he should not have been a jerkoff to shaq.
“And I don't think fans will turn on Kobe even when he's bad...esp after what he's accomplished here. I know whenever I see Horry or Fish do well, I'm happy to see them do well.”
herein lies my grip with kid kobe. kobe turned the LA fans against a HOF center who should have retired in LA with #34 and #8 hanging by each other labels as the “most dominant duo” ever, but here we are. I really didn’t like the #24 crap either……plain stupid move, but hey it sold jerseys......whoopi doo
“I was a huge Vanexel fan and I followed his career wherever he went and even bought all of his jerseys (except the San Antonio one...cuz well, that would be too weird).”
I felt bad for nick the quick too. the dude had balls of steel.
“My own prediction is this....it is far less likely we turn on Kobe, and more likely that when Kobe retires, all the Kobe haters will rejoice, but then a few years down the line, they will realize what a special player he was and realize they wasted so many years hating him and missing out on just enjoying one of the best players to play the game.”
believe it or now, I hope to think of kobe positively one day, but not today. I really enjoy the chat, please do not respond anymore if I give you a headache. it’s not my intention. this forum is entertainment for me.
Pimp
“Wow, way to post an inconsistent cop-out of your previous posts. So, now you're not saying that Kobe needs to attract "great players" (which, by the way, IS what you claimed before, and claimed in your responses to other bloggers), he's got to get his teammates to play "great"... so, Kobe's essentially got to be the coach now?”
not mutually exclusive, we need great players and players to play great. no point in having a “great” player or collection of great players (remember the Barkley, Pippen, Drexler in Houston), but not be able to compete for championships. LO can be an almost “great” player, but he’s stifled by kobe’s dominance. get it?
“Do you watch the games? Do you see Kobe leading the team in assists? Do you see him smiling and hi-fiving his teammates when they make the open shots that he sets them up for?”
yes, when the lakers were winning. I watch for what happens when things go sour. the true character comes out.
“If Kobe is so interested in being "the Man" and winning scoring titles, why is he so upset at the current circumstances?”
my humble opinion is that kobe thought he didn’t need shaq and “them other guys” (a la Barkley) to win titles. kobe thought he’d be in the west finals putting up 50+ and hitting the GW shot……kobe thought wrong.
“Why didn't he ask to be put back in in the 4th quarter of the 62 point Dallas game?”
believe me, I bet kobe was seething at being benched on his “historic” scoring night, but old kobe got is day didn’t he?? 81 irrelevant points against Toronto.
“If scoring and being the Man was that important, he would have gone back in, but he had done his job, we were winning the game, and that was what was important to Kobe.”
if winning was so important, kobe would not have been a jerk off to shaq and let things be……..lakers WERE winning……and winning lots.
“It's pretty obvious that you just don't like Kobe, and are looking for ways to "prove" that he's somehow a lesser player”
correct and incorrect. I don’t like kobe’s team game, but he’s an awesome INDIVIDUAL player. I would vote for kobe as MVP of the world if there was a one-on-one league.
hari,
“But why would Shaq reach out to Kobe now after all these years?”
honestly, I think shaq’s getting older and it’s time to move on. that’s why at the annual x-mas day Miami-LA showdown, shaq approached kobe to give him props on kobe’s kid. did you notice that shaq made amends with Zo?
“Because that means management decided to choose Kobe over Shaq. For the self-proclaimed MDE, that doesn't speak too much about him, does it? After all, it's not Kobe who asked that Shaq be traded - it was the Big Sentimental himself. So go chew on that and come back with a fresh pail of dung - I'll be waiting to blow it up in your face again :)”
if I were management, I’d choose kobe over shaq………..the lesser of two evils I guess. BTW, who won the championship in 2006? come again.
“Answer - the referees who let Wade get *90* FTs in the series. Look up what the MDE averaged in the series...”
wah wah…………how’s the cheese with the WHINE?
“On that note, here's another question - which defending champion got *SWEPT* in the *FIRST* round of *this* year's playoffs? Answer - it ain't the LA Kobes :)
who won the championship in 2006 again??
Michael h,
“My daughter loves spam musubi personally as Hawaiian food goes I lean toward Kalua Shaq i mean pig.”
LOL.
“Dude after all of our banter and you are still thinking Im a Kobe lover. pull your head out of shaqs ass a monent so you can see that i truely am a shaq hater.”
that’s a pretty big a$$........LOL. shaq-hater, fair enough.
“Welcome the Kalua Shaq band wagon. Ya he totally disrespected the organization, the city and us the fans. And now Reily is looking at a 36 yr old with 40+ mil due to him and is thinking of retiring again! Ha!”
who won the championship in 2006?? who’s laughing now…..
socal,
“SBPimp, save your breath... KL doesn't read those types of posts.”
I actually do read when I have time.
“Shaq rode Kobe all the years he was there.”
who’s the Finals MVP? who took 3 different teams to the NBA finals?
“Miami got one out of luck. Ok so what next? nice 0-4 sweep out the first round by your boy. MDE looked more like a MDE ten years ago.”
at leaset miami’s got “one”. how many does LA or kobe have since 2004?? ask gilbert aka Agent Zero
“Anyhow, I'd really like to see how Shaq + 4 YMCA guys do out there on the court against the NBA.”
this is my point, shaq knows how to get the right guys with him. look at shaq lobbying for Carter?
Lakertom,
“In reality, however, it’s hard to be a Shaq hater and not be a Kobe lover. Lol.”
good point. tell you the truth, I’m not a shaq lover, I’m a b-ball “lover” (what’s the deal with all the love crap)….but I digress. if kobe can be a good b-ball team player, then I’ll change my mind.
Fatty,
“Just found this, Exclusive film of KL with his head up Shaq's A$$,”
LOL. pretty funny and disturbing at the same time…..
kiwi,
“KL is obviously Shaq and Jorema is quite clearly Vanessa Bryant...other than that Im not too sure.”
LOL. pretty good.
well party people, i'm out for the day. lunch is over and i'm going to start my weekend early............anyone want to come to my place and watch the laker game.................on ESPN Classic..............LOL
Posted by: KL | May 25, 2007 at 12:35 PM
Hariyahu,
Phoenix has no bench? Thomas, Barbosa, Jones, Jones?
Of course, Jalen Rose, too. Who many of the posters here were screaming for the Lakers to sign last year.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | May 25, 2007 at 12:36 PM
Edwin Gueco
I wish we would have made a move for C. Webb a couple years ago, he turned us down for the Pistons this year (didn't he?) and Finley he's balked on our offers of the vet min. atleast a couple times during the Shaq era... before Malone came aboard and took the same $'s...
hariyahu
our chances with Mhim and Zara in the middle don't hold up to get us out of the west and no where near the promise land. I'll put money on Bynum over Mhim at this point. the two new rooks heading to (Portland/Seattle)will have a field day with Mhim if he's anything less than 150% of where he left off, Amarie's back and Duncan could be adding another to his ring collection this year. we have to realize that you must have a front court to advance smoothly in the West and Mhim isn't going to be the one.
Posted by: LakerFaze | May 25, 2007 at 12:39 PM
michael h,
Yeah, I thought Lebron cleared out a little bit too. Either way it was a good no call.
Posted by: fkillah | May 25, 2007 at 12:40 PM
Aloha HAriyahu
I really cant see the suns trading Marion to us, not because of the animosity but why would they want to give us a player that could improve us to the point where we Knock them out of the playoffs. If Marion was a free agent it would be differnt, he could force a sign and trade but he is not. If they do trade Marion look for him to go east.
MH
Posted by: michael h | May 25, 2007 at 12:42 PM
KL you are like a broken record.
We get it, you hate Kobe already. Kobe did nothing to help Lakers win 3 titles it was all Shaq attracting double teams and making life easier for the supporting cast. During this time, Shaq took all Kobe's shots and Shaq led the team in assists and steals during this time. He also led the team in free throws. At crunch time it was Kobe who substituted out of the game and it was Shaq who was in at crunch time. We understand you hate Kobe and we understand now it was Kobe who forced Shaq to sign a contract with Mimi and he also told Buss get me a new contract or get rid of Shaq.
You are so right ,we hear you loud and clear, Kobe caused the lakers to be swept by the Utah as rookie and be swept by the Spurs the following year.
Kobe is not a good player and does not rank anywhere because he had Shaq help.
Please stop the insults, it gets a bit childish, we know you hate Kobe and you think he is a rubbish and he has done no better than 'Travis Knight'
Aaarrrhhhh!!
Angry_Laker
Posted by: Angry_Laker | May 25, 2007 at 12:44 PM
KL
Hate Kobe all you want. It's not going to change the franchise.
Shaq yelling "PAY ME!" to the owner in the stands during a game is pretty bad politics if you ask me. Plus, he wanted more money than he took to play in Miami. So I think you saying that Kobe ran Shaq out of town is pretty thoughtless.
I personally think we could get tons of talent on this team if we did trade Kobe. It's not going to happen though.
Posted by: B$ | May 25, 2007 at 12:46 PM
Ex...I prefer to believe I am conversing with Vanessa...why Kobe just didnt retire and find better things to do after he met her is beyond me...
Mcgarnagurgle...Going by the theory E = mc squared...muliplied by pythagorus theorum I would say that....
...actually im staying out of this one for now.I will have a look for a better video but I subscribe to AK's answer for now that all I saw was that one angle and I couldnt make a decision.If its wrong I will call it wrong.Ive got no interest in supporting Lebron any more than I do bagging Kobe.I do however think that what happened with the suns suspensions have brough to the forefront a need to overhaul the way the rules work.call at the time was what Kobe was doing was wrong and I stick by that...if the ruling is inconsistent or too difficult to inforce as harshly as that then it needs to be looked at...
For a guy who takes his name from a simpsons character you sure are uptight!!!!
Posted by: Kiwi | May 25, 2007 at 12:47 PM
hariyahu
That would be a great trade, but it will defenitely leave us thin at the 5 spot... I say we sign PJ Brown or Maglore at least for vet. minimum....
But that trade is something that can work, given matrix's situation as well as the over the cap situation Phoenix has... And Atlanta if they end up getting a good PG through the draft they will defenitely consider dealing Joe J and Josh Smith for Bynum and Matrix.....
Posted by: Gino | May 25, 2007 at 12:48 PM
AK, maybe one reason is enough for Satan Stern and Stupid Jackson to not embrace Kobe: Kobe's image isn't as positive as James', Wade's, Nash's.
Stern doesn't want Kobe the star with the tarnished image to be popular in a positive way. Stern can tolerate Kobe b/o he garnets attention and ratings, but he won't embrac him. As a matter of fact, Kobe can be treated as the devil yet still get the league some ratings and news coverage.
Jackson is Stern's pawn. Also it's said that he is Shaq's pal.
Remember, the Laker DVDs didn't have Kobe's plays in it. NBA.com promoted James as the main man long before they learned of Kobe's injury.
Then came this using Kobe as an example to enforce the "unnatural basketball act" interpretation of rules. Kobe was the easy target and they knew that many anti-Kobe sportsguys in the media wouldn't make a loud roar against that. They were right, it turned out that many media hacks, ig. Sheridan from the bspn, even started calling out Kobe's "dirty plays."
Posted by: gdchild | May 25, 2007 at 12:53 PM
Darius Miles??? So if we get rid of players like Cook and Parker(all ready gone), you want to bring in players like Artest and Miles. I'm all for Artest I think he'll be a good if not great fit in LA, but Miles is a different story. Granted he's a very talented player with alot a potential. But I thought the whole point was to get better next year not add another young player that we hope will reach his potential. Plus you don't want tp add to many nut jobs on to the squad that could affect the younger guys on the roster we want to keep (Bynum,Farmar,Ronny)
Oh and I'm sending a letter to the league as well and two others to the easter bunny and santa clause because I have about as much chance of geting a reply from those two as I do from the NBA admitting that they screwed up.
Posted by: richtown | May 25, 2007 at 12:57 PM
fkillah
I've sent two Emails to the league office and I'm afraid they went to the electronic trash can. Now the PHX fans went way much further than us. They posted Stu Jackson's personal office telephone number. They were calling and leaving nice little death threats on his voice mail.(I don't think AK/BK could get that number. The rumor was someone from the Suns office leaked the number.
Ventriloquist
I've wondered as well. This is a real fact. Somone who used to post here was carrying on an arguement with his self. Name calling the whole bit. People were taking sides and yelling at other. lol
Fatty
Posted by: Fatty | May 25, 2007 at 01:02 PM
KL -
81 "irrelevant" points?? How is being down by 17 in the 3rd and coming back to win "irrelevant"?? The facts are: in the Dallas game Kobe had 62 in three quarters and came out of the game when we were winning, at the cost of individual glory. You say he was seething? I saw the game - he was smiling on the bench, enjoying the win. In the Toronto game, the Lakers were down significantly in the third. Kobe ratcheted up his scoring to a level the league hasn't seen since the 60s and won the game for the Lakers, AFTER trying to work with them to win it in the first half.
You need to attribute all sorts of hidden motives to Kobe to make your theory (Kobe is selfish and just wants to score) work, and ignore factual evidence. My theory (Kobe wants his team to win and doesn't care about his own scoring) is consistent with the evidence and requires no outside assumptions. I don't think your position is defensible.
Barkley, Drexler and Pippen - basically three dudes who needed to hitch to a winning wagon at the end of their careers in a desperate attempt to solidify their own legacies... sounds pretty damned selfish to me. These guys wanted to win a championship FOR THEMSELVES - they were willing to go to any random team with a chance to win in order to do it.
Besides, Houston was in a very different position with salaries, and operating under a completely different governing paradigm.
Again, your hate clouds your judgement. You will never admit you were wrong about any of this, even if Kobe gets KG to come to LA next summer and proceeds to win another 3 titles.
Why is Shaquille O'Neal not responsible for his trade demand? Wasn't he the older, veteran player? Where is his responsibility in any of this? Why do you give him a free pass, but hate on Kobe?
Posted by: SBPimp | May 25, 2007 at 01:09 PM
Miles won't work on this team now. That's not what I was suggesting. Hell, I haven't even seen the guy play in two years. The Miles that used to be could have helped at the beginning of this past season. Anway, forget Miles. He's not the answer to our problems.
Posted by: B$ | May 25, 2007 at 01:11 PM
AK,
If the roles were reversed and Lebron had been suspended TWICE during the regular season for an "unnatural basketball act", and Kobe did the exact same move in the playoffs, do you really think he would not have been suspended? I know it's speculative, but the answer should be pretty clear.
Now if Kobe received nothing more than a flagrant 2 like Lebron, do you really think the media would have let this issue alone? The media would have aired Kobe's foul 24/7, demanding justice (suspension). PTI would not have been the ONLY show to cover this issue. There would be a nationwide debate in the media.
You AGREE with Ex that the league "made a conscious decision to use Kobe to make an example, knowing that it was too harsh a punishment when looked at relative to similar occurrences. Of course, they won't acknowledge that, either." How can you agree with this statement and not acknowledge that even this tender excuse shows clear bias against Kobe?
You also think that "David Stern's constant need to seem "in control" (thus prompting his desire to take unnecessarily swift and sever measures)" is a more logical "conspiracy theory" for suspending a superstar than actual bias against Kobe? Hmmmmmmm.
You ask "Why would the league even want to tarnish Kobe's image?" Especially now that it's made considerable positive strides since Colorado?" The league can live with Kobe generating money for them. The league cannot live with someone who was accused of a very serious crime to be the face of the league. Simple as that. After Colorado, Kobe lost most of his endorsements from Corporate America, including the NBA. Kobe still somehow managed to fill more arenas and and sell more jerseys than anyone else. One of Stern's priorities has been to fix the criminal image "problem" in the league, especially after the fiasco in Detriot. Despite the league's efforts to market Lebron and D Wade, Kobe is still the #1 draw in the league. In other words, he is quietly becoming the face of the league again, despite not having won anything yet. Stern will NOT allow this to happen.
Posted by: mitchell | May 25, 2007 at 01:34 PM
"Why is Shaquille O'Neal not responsible for his trade demand? Wasn't he the older, veteran player? Where is his responsibility in any of this? Why do you give him a free pass, but hate on Kobe?"
These are all questions that haters can't answer. There is also the fact (note the word fact) that Shaquille demanded a contract extension from Jerry Buss, who saw the decline of the Big Man beginning and was wise to trade him while he had value. The fact that they were unable to get equal value for him is another issue altogther (although that was rather difficult at the time).
Posted by: PhxLkrFan | May 25, 2007 at 01:39 PM
Mitchell,
When I said the league used Kobe as an example, I meant because he's a big star and they wanted to show that nobody was above the law (similar to the reasons they gave Melo such a rough suspension). But not specifically because it's Kobe Bryant.
"The league can live with Kobe generating money for them. The league cannot live with someone who was accused of a very serious crime to be the face of the league."
You can't actively use a guy as one of your biggest money generators while simulatenously not allowing him to be a face of the league. Those two things run in direct conflict of each other. And there's really no "post-Colorado" dilemma for Stern, when you really think about it. The only people he'd need to worry about pleasing are the fans and by overwhelming virtue, they like Kobe. His jerseys fly off the shelves. They want to see him play in person. There's nobody to appease by playing down Kobe. If anything, they seem to want him played up.
Unless you think David Stern is so personally offended by the adultry (or maybe thinks Kobe's actually guilty, I guess) that he's making this a personal mission, what you're saying makes no sense. Especially when there are other players doing way more to hurt the league's image than Kobe.
I've said this many times, but I firmly believe Kobe's image problems have had way more to do with the perception that he's a selfish guy who broke up the dynasty than anything in Colorado. Especially as time went on and the girl accusing him seemed increasingly less credible.
Plus, to be honest, the Colorado incident is old news. It happened four years ago. It's rarely ever mentioned anymore (outside of articles talking about how Kobe's regained his place as a marketable pitchman). It's not on the forefront of anything involving Kobe anymore. Why would Stern feel he still needs to distance himself from Kobe, especially in light of how fans are clearly in his corner?
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 25, 2007 at 01:49 PM
fatty,
Those Suns fans are something else (sneaky foolios). I feel a little better now that some have taken the time to write..haha..
Posted by: fkillah | May 25, 2007 at 01:50 PM
gdchild,
I never realized before this year just how valuable it is to draft and recruit players who have the hunger to be great. I always thought bringing in big talent was the key. Well, I'm with you... maybe just as important as skill level is how hard they work and how much they want it. This is what has made Kobe, this is what made agent zero... and this is what sorely lacks from a guy like Kwame or Cook.
Kobe has already paid his dues, now he's in conserve mode... the rest of the guys ought to be in the gym 6, 8, 10 hours a day in this offseason working, working, and working some more! I'm sure finding some people to help them work out isn't too tough.
Another thing with the Oden vs. Durant dilemma for Portland has to do with history. They passed up on Michael Jordan because they already had a guy named Clyde Drexler. They drafted based strictly on need, which at the time was a quality big man. Hakeem was the first pick that year. Sam Bowie the second. MJ the third. Again, out of these, who was the one that spent the time in the gym and wanted to be great? No one really faults houston for choosing Hakeem, but Bowie was the all-time worst draft pick, much much worse than drafting Kwame #1.
Portland is still living in the "what if" land... everyone in Portland is talking about and reliving the 84 draft, and they don't want to pass on someone who is seen as the next MJ. The rumors or speculation of who's going first is just that, speculation. However, it wouldn't surprise me if Porltand ultimately chooses Durant.
Posted by: Tim-4-Show | May 25, 2007 at 01:51 PM
gdchild,
Coudn't agree with you more.
Posted by: fkillah | May 25, 2007 at 01:52 PM
Haha, I'm so glad Atlanta got that 3rd pick. The Suns have to be the 3rd most dissapointed team on lottery night. Getting that #4 pick really was the answer to all their problems and gave them a lot more flexibility in terms of trading Marion. They could then just trade Marion for future cap space and draft Brewer and still remain competitive. Or even worse use Marion and all their picks to move up to #2 (and filler) for Durant.
As far as Phoenix thinking about trading Amare instead of Marion, I believe it actually. I think someone like Brewer would've been a good replacement for Marion, while there are no real C's in that range to replace Amare. Now even though Amare is the better player of the two, in terms of the Suns' system and team chemistry, Marion fills a more unique role. The Suns were still right at the top of the L with Diaw at C last year...so if they lost Amare, they would still be good. On the other hand, I'm not sure they can afford to lose Marion's contributions in scoring, rebounding, 3's, while being their best defensive player.
Not sure how true the rumors are, but now that they don't have the #4 pick, if I were the Suns I would move Amare before Marion.
KL,
Here's my take on Kobe's selfishness. He simply wants to be the greatest player ever. He wants to be twice as good as Jordan. But even Kobe knows its championships and not scoring titles that will help him achieve that greatness.
During our championship years, Kobe really had to hold back and defer to Shaq. Phil asked him to do it and for the most part he did. Kobe said in an interview a long time ago how hard it was for him to "hold back" those years but he did it to keep winning. Now comes the point where Shaq is declining and Kobe is starting to become a fan favorite. Shaq talks of Kobe being the man and elevating him on a pedestal, yet in his actions, he still wants to be the "big dog". (again, just selfish words in essence as if you notice with both Kobe and Wade, in both cases it wasn't him simply deferring, but it was HIM that was lifting Kobe or Wade above him). Then the whole Kobe/Shaq feud begins and Kobe is basically double teamed by Shaq and Phil. Kobe finally lashes back at Shaq out of fustration, but really, nothing he said about Shaq was untrue. So did Kobe want Shaq out? Of course! Who wouldn't? If you woke up at 6am in the offseason to work on your game, and then every year your C comes in fat and overweight, and has surgery right before the season so that he can play all summer and miss games, then gets hurt every year cuz he is never in shape....wouldn't you get mad as well? This is why I hate Shaq so much. Not so much that he's a childish selfish jerk....but more its "what couldve been". IMO, if Shaq had half the work ethic of Kobe or Jordan, he would've been the hands down greatest player of all time. If Shaq had half the heart of Kobe and Jordan, and been half the baby he is, I really don't think he and Kobe would have had issues and would've won 6-7 championships together. So yeah, Kobe wanted Shaq out. But was he the driving force in kicking Shaq out? No, it was Shaq himself. Shaq caused most of the feud himself. Shaq was never in shape. Shaq was always getting hurt. And Shaq was making a gazillion dollar salary. What it came down to was it was a financial decision by Buss. Shaq was on the decline, but wanted even MORE money on his next contract. At the time, no owner in the world would've kept Shaq for his asking price. Now this is again Shaq's fault. If Shaq kept in shape and performed like he did in 2000 every year, the Lakers would've kept winning championships, and Buss would offer Shaq the biggest contract, + Jeannie's hand in marriage, and throw in Jim Buss to be his butler.
I think Kobe wants scoring titles, but I think he wants to win even more. If you offered to Kobe ..."you can either avg 35pts next year and win a scoring title, or avg 25pts and win a championship"....do you really think Kobe would take the scoring title?
"believe it or now, I hope to think of kobe positively one day, but not today"
KL, haha no your posts don't give me a headache. At first I dismissed you as another "crazy kobe hater". But I can see you really love the Lakers.....and really hate Kobe....which was so confusing and interesting to me. I hope you eventually warm up to Kobe too....for your own sake. I feel like loving the Lakers and hating Kobe puts you in such a weird position that it will detract from your overall enjoyment of the game.
I'm not sure, but I really think you will warm up to Kobe if management puts some better talent around him. I really look at Kobe's "selfishness" over the past few years as a real necessity for our team and its lack of other good scoring options....and I really believe if Kobe is on a team that can contend for the championship, he will "hold back" once again.
Posted by: wiZo | May 25, 2007 at 01:57 PM
tim4show...
It would surprise me if they took Durant...simply because if you are the guys making the decisions and you take Oden and it goes wrong every one says...'well we cant really argue with that'...you go against the grain and take Durant and HE doesnt work out...or even doesnt work out to be as good as Oden and everyone talks about how stupid you are for the next two decades...
In 'real' terms I see your point...in 'NBA my a$$ is on the line' terms Id be surprised if they do anything other than select Oden.
Posted by: Kiwi | May 25, 2007 at 02:03 PM