Phil raps with us media types
Because really, who wouldn't want to kick it with cats like me one day removed from a series-deflating loss? Or because I'm about 95% sure the NBA mandates that coaches address the press each day during the playoffs. But either way, Phil Jackson was rocking some sandals and taking some inquiries at high noon-thirty. Here's what was discussed.
Phil Jackson: I sent them home today after a short video session and told them to bring their energy back to play a basketball game. We'll get a practice in tomorrow to do what we have to do to make changes.
Q: How did the video look, 24 hours later?
PJ: Well, we were outhustled. They had more energy on the floor than we did. They imposed their will on the game and we never recovered. We had a little opportunity in the second period that escaped us at the last minute of the half. We had a little run in the third quarter where we got it under ten points, but other than that, they controlled that second half.
Q: By sending them home, did you want them to think about what happened? Did you want them to relax? You just didn't want to be bothered with them?
PJ: No, they know what to do. They know what they have to do to play. There's a matter of execution that counts, that's a big part of it. But a major part of playing is about renewed energy and determination. Our big guys didn't give us the hustle they had in the last game. The aggressive nature they had in game 3 was lacking yesterday on the floor.
Q: You had described them as "depressed" after the Game 2 blowout. Do you worry about them getting up for Game 5?
PJ: No, these guys recover really quickly. They're able to recover quick enough. I think today was a tough day. Obviously, last night was not easy, to face their friends and family, but they'll be alright by tomorrow. They'll be back at it.
Q: How much did the injury situation figure in to giving them the day off?
PJ: Well, I'm concerned about two or three players, but there's nothing like time that will heal them. Lamar feels a lot better today, even after the activity. Yesterday, I was very worried in the first half that he wasn't involved in the ballgame. He couldn't make a shot, or it didn't look like he wanted to take a shot. But he got himself involved in the game in the third quarter. So I was pleased with the fact that he got back into the game.
Q: Any lineup changes? Maybe (Vlad) Radmanovic goes on Wednesday?
PJ: Yeah, it's possible.
Q: So you've yet to determine who goes?
PJ: Yeah. You gotta play twelve guys in the first half. We came out of that first half rather... okay. One minute letdown at the end of the half, there were some consequential things that went on. Two three point plays down the stretch there. One by (Amare) Stoudemire that was a natural three point play and one that was a Barbosa three point shot. And giving up free throws basically at the buzzer at the end of the quarter. We came back in and I thought just didn't give that type of energy in the third quarter. We keep rapping on the tune that the first five minutes of a quarter determine a lot about a game and we didn't have it. We got down by twelve points instead of going right on a run and starting out. We'll see who comes out and performs in practice tomorrow and shows me that they want to hustle and play.
Q: How disappointing is it for you personally to see that lack of hustle with what's at stake right now?
PJ: You know what I say, "Hustle is about confusion." It's not that they don't want to give effort. I think these guys want to give an effort. Some of our guys are only "one effort" players, they're giving a real good effort, but a continual effort, but that's kind of inherent in the beast. But there were times when we switched and left (Steve) Nash wide open for three point shots. Little things like that were obvious that we really weren't communicating to one another, which is part of the whole attack of how you can play together, is to communicate.
Q: How do you frame this? "Just win one game." Or "This is a great opportunity?"
PJ: Just bring it back to L.A. Just bring the series back to L.A. and let the chips fall where they may. It's just a one-game scenario. If you get thinking about, "What happens if," then you get yourself in trouble.
Q: Kobe was named First-Team All-Defense today. I know he struggled earlier in the year with his defense because of his surgery. Is this a testament to him rebounding and going back to playing first team level defense or...
PJ: Or what?
Q: Reputation?
PJ: We think it's a coach's conspiracy. Don't they vote on it? Kobe's proved his defense in the second half of the season and we're happy he made the first team All-Defensive team. But you have to live up to that. It's real important. When he puts his mind up to the defense, he's done a great job for us. We've talked a lot about it, not being able to do the same things he has in the past, like steals and stopping guys and blocking shots in key situations like he's done when he was younger. But we want him to get back and focus on that and he knows that's one of the focuses we have and I think this will help him take some pride, as far as being named to the first team.
Q: Is there any concern on your part that these are Kobe's prime years and if we don't do better than first round exits, it's sort of a waste?
PJ: Well, you can always say, "What if?" A situation you can compare to, Kevin Garnett, who was MVP three years ago and his team hasn't been to the playoffs (since). There's one end of the scale and then there's another end of the scale. How do you redeem that and make that effective? Well, Kobe has a part in this and we've been working with that over that past couple years as far as how to do this. We know that we're one player away, as we've said earlier in the year, from maybe being a top echelon team in the league, but in that process, Kobe's helped us gear up to levels that we haven't expected to be at.
And now, in a playoff situation, where do you go from there? Make it a team effort? Let him loose? Tell him to score 60 points against a team who's got a couple of guys that are top defenders (presumably Shawn Marion and Raja Bell) who they can throw at him all the time and a collective defense? And how do you deal with the disappointment that comes with a loss like you've had in Game 2 and Game 4? Those are things where, this is what makes Kobe a great player, because he's a guy that goes back and finds a way to be positive and optimistic and come back with renewed energy to carry a basketball club. So we're not dismissing this at all and thinking about "what ifs... What if we don't get through this series?" We're going to say, "What if we do get through this series?" There's just too many things that can happen in basketball where you just blow off a game. People have come back off 3-1 and we could be one of those teams. But we have to play like we did in Game 3. It's up to us and that one of the things we have to remember.
AK: Do you get a sense that the team understands what it took to play in Game 3 and how to bring that back again?
PJ: I think they do. I think they knew it. My warning is sometimes it's easier to be on the road than to have a 12:30 ballgame. We have a collective meeting in the morning, a team brunch, a film session. We're getting them all geared up from 9:00 on to get play that 12:30 game. On the road, they're on their own. They've got to gear up their households and their lives in a way that sets them in tune for that type of a ballgame. I just think that we got out-jumped right from the gun. We caught up. They extended it. We caught up. They extended it again. And those things eventually wear a team down, especially one that's resilient like Phoenix. They can wear you out.
AK: The odds, realistically speaking, are stacked against you. But do you see that serving as a benefit of any kind, maybe allowing players to think "What do we have to lose at this point?" They can maybe play a little more free.
PJ: Exactly. I mean, here we are, a team that's 42-40 on the season and Phoenix has almost won 20 more games than we have over the year. We just don't want the referees to think that. We want everybody else to give us a fair break on that kind of thing and go from there. Give us an opportunity to play our game, too. And from that standpoint, this is shoot for the top and play with the type of freedom that you have to play with to win.
Q: What does it say about Lamar, the way he's been playing through injury during the playoffs and trying to get the crowd back into the game during the third quarter?
PJ: Yeah, he was trying to get the energy back in the game and in the building and he was getting himself back in. A lot of times I think that's how Lamar does it. He reflects so much of what it is in himself. We need that extra energy to go. Many times during that tape, I caught the guys with their hands on their knees in the course of the game, tired and fatigued. Even guys that were playing five minute shifts got fatigued out there. We know it's going to take us a few more guys to play against this team than a normal team, because of their speed and their activity. Lamar was one of those guys that I thought fatigued during the game, with that energy that the crowd brought, I thought it energized him.
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REPOST
JJ, you and i won't agree, but i respect your opinion. I do agree that shaq's better days are over and it's too bad some LA fans remember shaq as a lazy bum. Shaq did bring the championship back to LA. I still remember those post-Magic days when Cedric Ceballos was leading the way. I truly hope i'm wrong about kobe bryant.
i'm out.
Posted by: KL "the beast" | April 30, 2007 at 06:12 PM
AK/BK,
While I'm definitely not a Phil hater ... and I'm not rushing to have him fired, I do wonder what he is doing in this series in terms of rotations.
Do either of you have any explanations from the inside? Maybe a chance to talk to some assistants like Rambis or Shaw?
Many of Phil's techinique's require a keen basketball eye to comprehend. And, I tend to think they typically work. I also, unlike others, think that he has adjusted his coaching approach given his younger roster.
However, after sifting through all the possible reasons, I cannot understand how you play 12 people in a playoff game? How can that be your strategy? Why are we "trying" new guys and lineups every single game?
His handling of Smush and Brian Cook have been especially concerning. Both players add extremely minimal value against the Suns. Both seem to be upset or unwilling to give it their all as well. Why continue to play them even for short stretches in the PLAYOFFS?? And, especially in a year like this year where the title is wide open. If we get past Phoenix, a team that gives us matchup fits, we actually have a chance against everyone else (outside of Detroit).
But in basic terms, why not find a rotation and stick with it? He has done so in the past ... and even with this very team last year!
Sasha had a terrific playoff series last season ... and realistically can't be expected to produce if he's thrown in for two 4-minute stretches per game! Last season, he played about 20 minutes off the bench in each playoff game ... he found a rhythm, new what was expected of him, and the others new where he was going to be. It helps with defensive chemistry as well.
Any matchup "advantage" that is possibly garnered (none in my opinion) by playing Smush, Cook ... or randomly throwing Turiaf in there is more than negated by the lack of team chemistry / rhythm of the bench players.
Maybe for the first or second game of series ... Phil would try to experiment ... but a pivotal, must-win game 4?
Any legitimate explanations?
Anyone?
Posted by: Hanes | April 30, 2007 at 06:25 PM
Hanes,
"Both players add extremely minimal value against the Suns. "
If one of them could start hitting three point shots, it would open up everything else for the offense.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | April 30, 2007 at 06:32 PM
Good positive things from Phil.
Now it's our turn to come back from 3-1.
Posted by: ajax | April 30, 2007 at 06:34 PM
Hanes,
You know why Brian Cook can't play any more ? Cook is the backup of Lamar, Lamar plays over 40 min a game, Cook never will become a good player under Phil. Phil has unfair treament to some players. Every game, Luke missed a lot of shots, no problem he is still in the game, but Vlad, or Cook missed some shots, they will sit on the bench. If you have a shooter, and you don't allow them to shoot, how can they become a good players? Another stupid coaching style of Phil is , he said if you a new player and want to be a starter, you have to prove to him that you're better than Luke and Smush in trial angle offense, if you're a new player, no way you understand trial angle offense better than Luke and Smush, one thing Phil did not see that he won't win with Luke and Smush. He chose Luke and Smush, and he will loose with Luke and Smush. Did Kobe and Lamar play much better under Phil ? I don't see it. I did not believe in Phil few years ago when he lost to San Antonio, and Detroit. Why should i believe him now that he will win with Luke and Smush ?
Posted by: bluesky | April 30, 2007 at 07:03 PM
Hanes,
Maybe it's the fatigue? Like Phil said, even guys who play 5 min. out there are tired after trying to defend Nash & Co. It's surprising that young guys are loing their breath, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. There are young guys who roll with the adrenaline, and there are young guys who get discouraged and winded.
Something tells me we're getting stuck with a lot of the "who get discouraged" type. That right there is a vote against Kupchak.
So, when you get frustrated and wonder why Turiaf randomly shows up just to pick up fouls or why we have to play all 12 guys - don't assume that Phil isn't going through the same frustration.
When your hands are bound, your hands are bound. He can't just keep Farmar or Vujacic in there if they're about to keel over, for example. And he obviously can't keep Kwame in there if Kwame decides to take off for the locker room to stretch his back.
- Miguelinho
Posted by: Miguelinho | April 30, 2007 at 07:04 PM
You laker fans were right Kwame got amare on foul trouble and dominated the bench by being Kobes bench warmer for those 4 to 5 minutes kobe didn't play.
Posted by: mario | April 30, 2007 at 07:12 PM
Hanes,
To some degree, I think Phil is playing a lot of guys to help keep the important players fresh while going at Phoenix's pace (He talked about people getting gassed quickly). If you're gonna give a starter a rest, a less appealing option (like say, Brian Cook), inevitably ends up playing, because you gotta put five out there. But Cook's only played more than 11 minutes once, so it's not like Phil's giving him a ton of run.
In Smush's case, he's basically out there because Farmar has struggled (especially as things have progressed), Shammond isn't ideal to play 30+ minutes, and Sasha's given them very little on either end both all season and during the series. Someone's gotta play, right? Plus, Smush was solid defensively in Game 3. And in game 4, he gave them some bench scoring. You gotta go with what's (relatively speaking) working. Just because somebody isn't ideal doesn't mean you won't have to play them, anyway.
As far as the rotation goes, I admit, there have been times when player combos have been a little odd. But quite frankly, most of these games have put Phil in a position where he could be trying to "make something" happen. To say the least, he's not getting consistent production out of any one sub and arguably out of nobody outside of Kobe or maybe LO. Thus, you could be tempted to mix and match. Obviously, an argument can be made that tinkering keeps guy from finding a rythym and truly knowing their "role" (which could adversely affect their consistency). But given that they've been inconsistent most of the year, anyway, I can see why Phil's doing what he's doing (whether it's what I'd do or not).
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | April 30, 2007 at 07:20 PM
Hanes-
I would agree with you in principle, that you want a steady rotation to be able to play predictable minutes. With this team, though, it's harder to get on him for trying different combinations. Given the overall lack of talent on the team, to some extent you have to throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and hope something sticks. Smush has his flaws (to be certain) but who else do you play? I think he's shown a lot of flexibility by giving quality minutes to Shammond. They just don't have good options at guard. And on Sunday, Farmar was just getting worked, and had to be pulled. As for the other guys, I think he put in Cook b/c they needed th eoutside shooting to try and draw Phoenix out of the lane, plus they had to try and generate some offense.
I don't say all this as some grand defense of Phil. But especially when you're dealing with the unique matchup issues that Phoenix presents, it's hard to be too critical of his choices. Walton? Not playing well. Cook is Cook, Sasha is Sasha, Ronny isn't a good matchup against the Suns (he's a foul machine). What do you do? There isn't a rotation that can keep the Lakers in the game if the Suns are playing up to their capability. There just isn't. It's a talent thing, not a coaching thing.
My issue isn't so much if Phil has done a great job or a poor one (I think he's been okay- not great, not bad), but I wonder what the point of having him (and the expectations he brings) there is if the roster isn't any better. Coaches in the NBA can't make average great like can happen in college. In the NBA, talent is the most important thing, and a great coach can be the difference between the conference finals and a title, or maybe a second round and the Finals, and a shot at the title. There isn't a coach on the planet that could make this roster into a legit title contender. Phil's as good as anyone.
If they can't make the team better, it doesn't matter how good a coach PJ is, they won't win anything important.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | April 30, 2007 at 07:20 PM
BK,
Nice post. So you are admitting that it is Kupjack's fault, not Phil's? I only wish the organization realizes this before it is too late.
Posted by: mitchell | April 30, 2007 at 07:46 PM
Andrew and Brian Kamenetsky
Sharing with us the inside interviews of the Lakers is my favorite thing on this blog. There is not a blog in the country that gives more insight to "behind the scenes" Laker stuff. I've looked at other blogs and none of them can match the quality of yours. I really feel this insight has contributed to our knowledge and understanding, as well as our very well put comments. lol
This last year, I feel I have grown immensely on my knowledge of the workings and going ons of my favorite team, the Los Angeles Lakers.
It all starts with you, and filters down and through our fellow aficionados.
In the past, my only source was Chick (not bad), and a few articles in the LA Times.
Today, I honestlty can say, I understand the Cap. I understand the 1 from the 3. In fact, I think the collective knowledge from the blog could build a winning program from scratch and perhaps teach the Suns how to finally win the title. (which we wont)
I don't always agree with you guys, but I would be a fool not to listen when you speak. I mean, you are in the middle of our Laker world, seeing and hearing close up, and reporting with great detail. Its almost like we are their.
As been said, you have a tough job, but someone has to do it. And you do it well. Even BK's interviews with drunken Pong players are good. lol
You guys are going in the right direction. Hopefully you'll remember us little bloggers when you reach the top, wherever that is.
Thanks for a great season and all your very hard work
Fatty
PS. BK. Has your wife gotten used to her new last name yet? Mine is very odd and my wife took weeks to use it without laughing.
Posted by: Fatty | April 30, 2007 at 07:53 PM
Mitchell-
As much as anyone's it is. Although if you're going to blame Mitch, I think it's important to lay a heap of it at the feet of Shaq and Kobe, because if the two of them could have played nice together, there wouldn't have been a need to trade Shaq, and they might not be in this mess today. The need to make that trade put Mitch in a nearly impossible position, and they're still recovering.
But yeah, ultimately the roster is the responsiblity of the GM and ownership. And this one isn't all that good.
Fatty-
Thanks for the note. We're glad you enjoyed the season, and do our best to make the site informative and entertaining. As for my wife (still feels strange typing it), she's adjusting. I think switching to Kamenetzky is a rough go. She definitely got screwed in the deal (haha).
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | April 30, 2007 at 08:07 PM
Does this blog end once the season ends? It would be nice to come back here during the offseason if there was a big trade or other substantial Laker news.
Posted by: mitchell | April 30, 2007 at 08:08 PM
Mitchell-
We'll be here. Between free agency, the draft, trade rumors, etc. there's plenty to talk about. We're not going anywhere.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | April 30, 2007 at 08:10 PM
Its great that the blog will be here. I always enjoy reading Ks commentaries.
I will miss pre- and post-game Lakers show though :( Round-table with Money, Spero and MT must be the best 10 minutes of NBA analysis you can find. And they are always cracking jokes and teasing one another. Gotta love it.
Posted by: tim | April 30, 2007 at 08:23 PM
When this season ends I will be looking forward to the draft and the change that's coming for the Lakers( not sure if it's positive though) but one thing I am looking forward to is seeing the headline "KG COMING TO LA" haha that's make my day..heck it'd make my summer hehe
Posted by: drew | April 30, 2007 at 08:44 PM
Hey K Bros -
Where do you see the Lakers' relationship with Chris Mimh heading? I guess he can't really be used as trade bait, having missed what felt like 5 seasons.
I vaguely remember he was pretty good. I remember watching the Seattle game where he went down. I had no idea he'd be out this long, though.
But in all honesty, he didn't seem headed for star status. So - with the fans, Kobe, and PJ itching for a shot at the BIG TIME once again, what role can Mihm's return play next season? (fingers crossed that he even returns, of course)
- Miguelinho
Posted by: Miguelinho | April 30, 2007 at 08:44 PM
The Lakers blog shines even more during the off season.
Every possible scenario will be explored, every possible draft choice...
lots of great ideas.
Hopefully we can extend this season for a few more days though. I'm in no hurry to start the off season talk.
Posted by: Tim-4-Show | April 30, 2007 at 08:54 PM
Fatty,
Thanks for the nice words. We really appreciate it and this is a fun gig, for sure. I'm glad you feel BK and I can occasionally lend a little knowledge, although frankly, I consider myself nothing close to an "expert." I don't think I'm without ANY insight, but there are definitely folks who know more. That's why I do my best to listen, whether it's to coaches, players, commentators, and other basketball writers. The minute you start fancying yourself the smartest guy in the room, that's when you're guaranteed to miss something.
Truth be told, I learn a fair amount from the blogging nation, too. For example, while Laker Tom and I have debated many times what I consider his strong tendancy to view a certain rookie's play with rose colored glasses, I won't even hesitate to admit that he lay out a pick and roll trapping strategy 100 times better than I ever could. He does a terrific job, so I make sure to read his posts on the subject. That happens quite a bit with other posters as well, which I think is cool.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | April 30, 2007 at 09:00 PM
That's great news! I was preparing myself for the ineveitable Laker Blog withdrawal, but I guess I can relax now.
Posted by: mitchell | April 30, 2007 at 09:02 PM
Geez....when's Wednesday gonna come around? I cant wait anymore!!!
Hopefully if we cant beat em, our Bay Area, freeway crashed, hyphy cousins will take care of them :)
Posted by: bobie | April 30, 2007 at 09:11 PM
OUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR TURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE BALLINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
GAME 5 W
GAME 6 W
GAME 7 W
GAME OVER SUNS
Posted by: BIGBOYCOX | April 30, 2007 at 10:59 PM
To me, one of the biggest issues with the current squad is that half the team only plays hard when their shot is going in.
People wonder why Phil plays Luke, it is simple - he shares the ball and plays hard. If Smush or Kwame or the Kid or name the Laker played hard on both ends, even when they missed their first two shots (or before they got two shots off) then this would be a different deal.
That and some more talent. I am way down on Smush but Farmar playing now is kind of embarrassing.
Lastly, don't take this the wrong way, but I don't get why Sasha doesn't get more consistent minutes. I know, I know, he can't slow down Nash or Barbosa. But who can? None of the Laker guards can man up and personally slow down the Suns backcourt.
Why play guys who's incremental value on defense is one step up from negligible and who struggle with EFFORT?
To my Laker fan eye, Sasha plays hard everytime out. He is long, takes charges (flops), and sets up in the Holy Triangle. I have always felt that if he would get consistent playing time his legendary pregame shooting accuracy would rear its head during the game.
I guess that is the state of affairs. We are down 3-1 and I am hoping Sasha plays 20 minutes in game 5.
I miss Chick.
May there be a game 6.
Posted by: Morgan | April 30, 2007 at 11:00 PM
Realistically, I don't think we will make any offseason moves. Next year's offseason is the one that holds much hope for the organization.
I can only pray that KG opts out, and he settles with whatever money we can offer this year. If he does come to LA (God-willing), we will be able to offer him more money once Kwame's and Lamar's contracts expire.
Posted by: never | April 30, 2007 at 11:01 PM
All the talk earlier about Phils 12 man rotation I think is missing the point. Alter Kobe and Lamar there isnt a lot of seperation between talent level with the rest of the guys. Why not play alot of guys and keep fresh legs in? Phil had a 10 man rotation earlier in the year when we were winning so it really isnt a new concept, although I would like to see more minutes given to MO with Luke struggleing they way he has been. Mo came in and had a nice little run , only to dissapear for a long time. I say with Cook hurt we at least bring Vlad in for a few minutes and see what he can do. I dont know about the shoulder but the hand is suppose to be feeling better. I remember he hurt with the 3 ball at both Seatle and with the Clipers. Maybe he could regain a little of that touch, at this point, whats left to lose?
Posted by: michael h | April 30, 2007 at 11:14 PM
What happened to that screen and roll play for Farmar where he would go up for the layup, but jump back into the blocker and get the and-1? I don't remember seeing it at all this series. Run some of those, and Kobe drive right at Amare, get those early fouls on him - that's what worked in Game 3, early fouls on Amare! That and twist Kwame's ankle so he can start dunking like a monster again.
Posted by: newJTimes | May 01, 2007 at 12:06 AM
I also want to send big props to AK and BK for the Lakers blog. Don't know how I would handle a season like this without the therapy available here.
I think what PJ said in "code" in the interview was that the guys on this squad simply lack heart and character. With the exception of Lamar, they are not what Kobe calls "warriors."
Then, there's the issue of talent. If they can't match up against the league's best teams, they lack the talent to wear the Purple and Gold.
To repeat what I've said in many previous posts, Jim Buss and Mitch must step aside. Bring in a GM who recognizes heart, character, and talent.
Unload as many of the unworthy as possible, even if it's not for the stars we'd really like to see in a Lakers uniform. Walton, Cook, Smush, Sasha, Vlad, Kwame, Andrew, McKie, Shammond can all go anywhere else. They've all had the opportunity to show that they belong here and they don't.
Yes, it will be a challenge for PJ and his coaches to teach new blood to play in this system, but at least we'll be able to watch players who come out with energy and commitment. We can forgive them their early season mistakes if we can watch guys who come to play.
Whether we win or lose Wednesday night doesn't matter. There'll be no post-season parade in Los Angeles this year, except for all the losers we send packing out-of-town.
And Dr. Buss, please look up towards the Heavens and apologize to Chick.
Posted by: Rick Friedman | May 01, 2007 at 12:11 AM
Michael h, that was exactly the point I was going to make. We don't have enough outstanding people to NOT play the bench players. Why settle on a rotation when nobody is consistent enough to be counted on?
Posted by: Michael A | May 01, 2007 at 12:31 AM
Phil should have been honest to say that his triangle is obsolete..... if he stays...i dont see a championship on this team...i like larry brown and his system....especially his defensive philosophy.... i guarantee you that as long as phil stays here and even if they bring additional superstars on this team... it would be the same...as long as the triangle is there.....they wont win in the playoffs... teams have found a way to stop it.
Posted by: sonny | May 01, 2007 at 12:40 AM
I had a great idea for a speical charity event during the off season featuring an all point guard game, "the former laker point guards" vs 'the bounced around but never been a laker, yet" point guards.
Starting for the formers:
Gary Payton, C
Derek Fisher, PF
Chucky Atkins, SF
Janerro Pargo, SG
Tyron Lue, PG
Starting for the nevers,
Marco Jaric, C
TJ Ford, PF
Earl Watson, SF
Andre Miller, SG
Earl Boykins, PG
And coming off the bench for both teams: Marcus Banks
-- AllStarred
-- Charter member of the "bring back Tierre & Wafer" fan club
Posted by: allStarred | May 01, 2007 at 12:41 AM
REPOST (got lost in last thread... but I would really like to learn more about the game and this blog is such a great teaching tool...)
AK, BK, Michael T... anyone... PLEASE ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS FOR ME?!?!?!?!?
I would like to first say that I am a basketball novice... but I have been watching EVERY single game of the Lakers since 1998 and feel like I have a pretty good idea of the triangle offense... I just don't know anyone that knows the offense well enough to explain these questions... I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW THE REASONS FOR THESE DECISIONS...
Why do we find it necessary for Lamar to bring the ball up in this offense?
From what I understand that the idea is to have Lamar (who is 6'10" and a great ball handler) bring the ball up to be the floor leader to set-up the offense while Kobe is down the court trying to establish a dominate post position and then facilitate the offense from that postion. Also this gives the option for Lamar to run the fast break (WHICH WE ARE HORRIBLE AT!!!!) because most bigs cannot handle such a agile and long body like Lamar. The only other thing I can think of is so that if the ball is kicked back outside Lamar has the ablilty to break his defender down of the dribble or shoot the outside shot.... Other than that... I don't understand this.
Here is why I don't get it:
1. Lamar hasn't developed a consitant outside shot since he was here. Last year in the playoffs and at the beginning of this year Lamar was beginning to develop his consistency outside but he hasn't hit it for a long time. Every time he shoots a 3... I tense up... He is not an outside threat and therefore the defender only has to sag in the middle and worry about Lamar as a dribble threat.
2. IF Lamar is bringing the ball up so that Kobe can gain his post position then this is not working... Kobe CONSITANTLY gives up his post postition to receive the pass. IT DRIVES ME NUTS!!! He didn't do this last year. Last year he would hold his posistion and look for cutting players, wait for double teams and kick to the outside, or back his defender down for a high % shot or turnaround fadeaway. For some reason this year... every time he gets good posistion he lets the defender push him out of his posistion and then when the pass is given, Kobe jumps to get the pass and swings around to get his defender in a posistion where he can take him off the dribble.... OUT BY THE THREE POINT LINE!!!! This breaksdown the entire flow of the triangle because there is NO post threat now... it is just a basic isolation play for Kobe. There is no pressure on the defense and if they do double team... Kobe has to dribble out of it or jump to pass out of it.
WHY CAN'T KOBE AND LAMAR SWITCH POSITIONS (OR OFFENSIVE ROLES)?
Kobe's game is sound at EVERY position!!! EVERY position... Lamar is such a threat in the post... it seems to me that almost all of his points come from him establishing himself in the post. Lamar does not have an outside shot. Kobe is DEADLY off the dribble and from the outside. Why continue to ask a player to play a role that he hasn't developed yet? Until Lamar does develop his outside game... let him do what he is comfortable with.... Lamar in the post commands a double team. Kobe outside wating for the outlet pass.... DONE!!!!
Kobe brought the ball up for years with Shaq. I am not saying that Lamar is Shaq... c'mon... not at all.... but Lamar is more of an offensive threat in the post than Kwame or Bynum or Luke or at least this year... Kobe.
Someone please tell me why this doesn't make sense because it is driving me CRAZY!!!!!!
Posted by: reedred13 | May 01, 2007 at 01:11 AM
Friedman,
I can sympathize with your displeasure not only with the team but the organization. I really felt that in the season's beginning, we would be a serious championship contender come playoffs time even though we were losing to sub par teams. I thought that defect would be solved, but I was truly mistaken. For whatever myriad of reasons (injuries, lack of cohesion, etc..), this season is probably the saddest I can remember in my Laker memory. We have one of the greatest talents this league has ever seen in Kobe Bryant and we are still not going anywhere. We have Kwame, Vladimir, and Cook signed for at least next year and the breakout season for Lamar is still waiting to be seen. We have the second highest payroll but we are struggling to qualify for the playoffs.
Posted by: never | May 01, 2007 at 03:25 AM
forget K.G.
find a center who can play that position.
L.O. doesn't talk the talk and for sure don't walk the walk.
i'm still a die hard laker fan!
Posted by: apujac | May 01, 2007 at 06:08 AM
michael h,
"After Kobe and Lamar there isnt a lot of seperation between talent level with the rest of the guys."
You are right. All season long fans have seen that, and confused that with being "deep." In reality, the Lakers have one of the "shallowest" rosters in the league, perhaps the shallowest.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | May 01, 2007 at 06:43 AM
Miguelinho,
When Mihm is healthy, he is a better all-around center than Kwame. (Which is why PJ started Mihm when both he and Kwame were healthy.)
If he is going to fully recover from his ankle surgery, having him on the roster would make either Kwame or Bynum expendable in trades, or both of them, if a trade brought in a good center.
The two questions (and both of them are significant) are if he is going to heal all the way, and how much money it would take to re-sign him.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | May 01, 2007 at 06:48 AM
no parameter defense, no hustle play, no transition defense, no second chance shots = no second round show.
I'M STILL A LAKER FAN!
Posted by: apujac | May 01, 2007 at 06:55 AM
Morgan.
Good point about giving Sasha more minutes. He works hard on defense, can shoot, is a good teammate, and unselfish. He got a great steal when the Suns tried to inbound too fast. I like that he is naturally alert to the Sun's weaknesses.
Also, We know Kobe and Odom will show up. But if we are going to win this series, Luke needs to get more involved.
Posted by: dataSpade | May 01, 2007 at 07:14 AM
suns
Posted by: Todd | May 01, 2007 at 08:14 AM
More Lakers Front Office Incompetence:
(From Dave Smith - TheSportsGod.com) :
"For some reason, the New Orleans Hornets wanted to move Davis and the Lakers reportedly had a deal on the table of Caron Butler, Chris Mihm, a #1 or #2 pick and some filler."
"At the time of the trade, Davis was injured, out of shape and owed $68M for the remaining four years, which scared off a few teams. But the Lakers showed serious interest and a deal seemed imminent...."
"Incredibly, Jerry Buss, Jim Buss and Mitch Cupcake chickened out, claiming that Baron's "history of injuries and poor conditioning" caused them to pass on the $68M remaining on his contract...."
"So when I had Baron on my show, I had to ask him this question: "As a Laker fan, I still want to kill myself when I think about you and Kobe on the same team, which would have been the greatest backcourt in league history."....
Baron's response: "Oh, yes, it could have happened."
I then asked him, "Well, why didn't it happen?"
Davis' response: "Blame Mitch Kupchak.""
MORON ALERT MORON ALERT
BRYANT/GARNETT '08
Posted by: King Lakernidas | May 01, 2007 at 08:20 AM
Ohh well another day of embarrassment for us lakers...time to start my vacation early then expected!!!
Posted by: gametime | May 01, 2007 at 08:29 AM
the lakers best off season acquisition is to get jerry west back here and get rid of mitch kupcake. go warriors!!!
Posted by: xtromofag | May 01, 2007 at 08:33 AM
your worried about Re-signing Mihm........please. We've missed nothing.
Mihm -below average rebounder..... below average shot blocker, very limited on the offense end.......and no real Athleticism, and suffers from the same problem that KWAME, BYNUM AND COOK HAS........play toooo soft.
I still remember shouting........DUNK, DUNK........then he would try to do a soft lay up or put back.......and get BLOCKED over and over.
HE'S DEFINITELY EXPENDIBLE
Posted by: Dion | May 01, 2007 at 08:48 AM
GO WARRIORS ??? True Laker fan's don't jump ship and say "GO WARRIORS" ! Its kinda like those who have second favorite teams ! lol What a joke !
Posted by: LALAKERLOVER | May 01, 2007 at 08:50 AM
First off - for those of you who joined the blog during the season - it rocks even MORE in the off-season. Gives us a chance to keep focused on our team even when they're not in the paper daily, and there's fewer entries so there's actually time to read them all.
Now as to this summer (I'm assuming we lose game 5 and I'm just getting a jump on the next phase) - we need MAJOR changes. Buss the younger is DEAD wrong when he says Bynum and Farmar are enough to compliment Kobe. Hopefully his dad will wake up and take control again. When he does....
1) We NEED a new GM. One with a connection to Laker History and Greatness (and no - backing up Kareem for 2 years til your knees blew out doesn't count Mitch). The ONLY three options - Jerry West (the best!), Magic, or kicking Phil upstairs. Like West, coaching may now be too strenuous for the Zenmaster, but with his hoops knowledge he'd be a helluva GM if we can't get Jerry or Earvin.
2) We need a dependable all-star big man. First choice : KG. All NBA defensive team, leads the league in rebounds and his team in scoring, lives in Malibu off season, gets along great with Kobe. How much more perfect can you get? Give the Wolves ANYONE but #24 - any 2 big men plus draft choices. Second choice : JO - I wouldn't give up Lamar for him, but he plays the 5 well so Kwame and/or Bynum plus pick(s) is a fine deal. Kwame is very valuable in these deals due to his expiring big contract.
3) Get rid of the players that don't play with heart. Kwame, Smush, and the Serbian Snowboarder - go pout or laze around or have non-hoops fun somewhere else. We need guys that work 8 hours a day in the OFF season cause they're so determined to win next year.
4) Get another older point guard to mentor Farmar. Kidd and Bibby are probably out if we use our tradeble big men and picks on KG or JO, but someone of the caliber of D-Fish or Cassell. Maybe even Jacque Vaughn.
Do that and we have a championship contender next year. Stand pat or add another Radmanovich and I'm going to quit fighting everybody up here in NorCal (where I moved last year) and start rooting for the Warriors. At least they play with passion.
Posted by: Jay Jay | May 01, 2007 at 09:03 AM
King Lak -
Good thing we didn't do the trade for Baron. We'd have had to part with Caron Butler and we never would have gotten Kwame who has done so much to help us. Like...... like..... er I forget.
Oh yeah - he's the first player in the NBA to care so much about picking up after himeslf in the playoffs that he looked for his headband on the floor instead of doing something nonessential like playing defense on Amare. I mean would you want to have a fist-pumping game-winning Baron Davis instead of that?????
Posted by: Jay Jay | May 01, 2007 at 09:09 AM
REEDRED13...............
I AGREE WTIH YOU........lamar is definitely not an outside threat and having him try to deliver the ball in the post, or bring up the ball to set up the offense completly defeats the purpose of having a point guard.
It says alot about Phil's coaching strategy........very questionable at best. That's why I say.....trying to bring in a top point guard like BILLUPS, BIBBY, or anyone of that level......will be almost impossible, because you'd be asking PHIL to give up his stagnent, predictable and out dated Triangle. They play pick and role to setup players, penetrate and create mismatches......which is the Essence of the Nba today and basketball all around the world at the highest levels.
Kobe will frequently lose his low post positioning because I sometiems see Kwame, Lamar, Turiaf......trying to pass him the ball in the post...........IT'S SILLY. Coach is ultimately responsible for player positioning......any top coach can ajust that problem overnight.
Posted by: DION | May 01, 2007 at 09:14 AM
Jay Jay,
You are absoulety right. When the front office was looking to deal Caron Butler, Cupcake had decided on Kwame for his superior cake-throwing skills. He felt that being able to do this showed potential.
All hail Mitch Cupcake
BRYANT/GARNETT '08
Posted by: King Lakernidas | May 01, 2007 at 09:22 AM
Dion,
"I still remember shouting........DUNK, DUNK........then he would try to do a soft lay up or put back.......and get BLOCKED over and over."
You have an extremely faulty memory. The above was not an issue with Mihm. He has a very solid, and improving, offensive game. His weakness is one-on-one defense, and he is only a mediocre rebounder. But his offense is good.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | May 01, 2007 at 09:22 AM
As A life long Laker fan, except for my affair w/ MJ23, I must say this yrs. team is one of the worst. even more so than those team w/ Seadle Threat, at least the effort was there every night! anyway, I am resigned to the fact that we wont get a big name guy, and with the way the game is being played now Bynum will be a non factor, what players in this league can we get to be more conpetitive, I am not completely against Smush coming back, but only as a bench player, time to get defensive minded quicker player and a solid low post scorer.
Posted by: Trey perry | May 01, 2007 at 09:27 AM
this offseason is loaded with free agents..........you can find 50 upgrades to replace the MIHM.........offensive player......get real.
he's been traded around for the same reason........too soft and not a defensive or offensive threat. No intimidation value.
Posted by: Dion | May 01, 2007 at 09:43 AM
Dion,
There are not many centers in the league with Mihm's offensive skills.
There are not many centers in the league who would be as low-cost as Mihm is likely to be (coming off his injury.)
Put those two factors together, and you won't be able to match them with anyone else.
YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER SALARY CAP WHEN YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT A ROSTER.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | May 01, 2007 at 09:49 AM