Which Hurts Worse?
After last night's ass huh-whipping at the hands of the Grizzle, the Lakers have now experienced two losses facing NBA-worst caliber teams, the other being the triple OT debacle against Charlotte. Obviously, neither is one to feel particularly thrilled about, but if you had to single out one as the absolute dregs/pits/creme de la crap, which "L" are you taking?
Personally, I gotta think it was the Bobcatastrophe. Any game with 15 extra minutes of free basketball offers many a chance to win, none of which the Lakers snagged. Memphis was a lost cause once the third quarter began. The Lakers were only playing those last 24 minutes because NBA rules dictate that every contest come to a complete finish, not because they had any realistic chance of a comeback. Charlotte also played without Brevin Knight and Sean May, two of their better players. Memphis was at full strength (unless you consider Lawrence Roberts and Kyle Lowry in suits a major hurdle to clear). Plus, the Grizzlies are now a running team, and as we've seen many times, even a lousy running team can give this Lakers squad fits because they're... what's that word I'm looking for... oh yeah... slow. Mo Evans and Jordan Farmar make them a little quicker this season, but when it comes to defending a fast break, they might as well be competing in this race. Throw in the Lakers' inexplicably bad track record playing in Graceland and "letdown" feels like more than just a potential outcome. I'm not saying this should have happened, mind you. Not even. I'm just saying, it strikes me a slightly more palatable than bowing down to Charlotte, which simply felt inexcusable.
Of course, you may look at it differently. Perhaps Memphis featured an extra element of "You gotta be joking" that's going over my head. Hell, maybe there's an even worse loss that blows the two spotlighted here outta the water. In any event, sound off like you got a pair (of lungs).
AK
The Christmas game. Not only cause it was against Miami, against Wade..but also cause it was at christmas! Sort of ruined my christmas too...boy if it weren't for the diamonds, it would have been totally crap lol. But in all honesty, everything pissed me off about that game, from the refs to reaction (flat reaction) of our players. Fortunately pay back is coming very very soon. lol.
Posted by: Faith | January 10, 2007 at 12:41 PM
charlotte, for sure...
because that team was missing TWO starters, another starter (adam morrison) was missing every shot he put up and all charlotte had left was a bunch of no-names scoring at will.
it was capital 'P' pathetic.
i didn't even comment after last night's loss, b/c what new can you say? the lakers play down to the competition and lolly gag... but the charlotte game was a new low, one never to be approached again (hopefully) and really hit me in my gut.
Posted by: CBuck | January 10, 2007 at 12:43 PM
Charlotte was worse for me. Why? Cuz its Charlotte!
Read some rumors that the Lakers may be interested in Cwebb now that he was bought out. Any inside info on that? And what are your guys thoughts on picking up someone like Cwebb?
Posted by: wiZo | January 10, 2007 at 12:45 PM
AK,
Agree 100% - loss to Bobcats was even worser. Maybe you guys should banne any 'elite team' discussions until better times on this blog?
Some numbers on Cook shooting for the last 2
games
FG 0-2 3pt 0-0 Pts 0
FG 4-13 3pt 0-4 Pts 8
I think Vlade even worse. Maybe we should not use word 'deep' also. Instead of having 'heros' for 20 points I would gladly take someone for 10 consistent pts day in and out
Posted by: LAL_Fan | January 10, 2007 at 12:55 PM
Problem with CWebb, we can end up with another bench warmer, just look at his numbers how many games he played for the past 2 years.
Posted by: LAL_Fan | January 10, 2007 at 12:57 PM
This loss was much worse... because I lost 75 bucks. lol
Posted by: frank rizzo | January 10, 2007 at 01:04 PM
AK,
Sorry to get all positve here but honestly neither loss stings. Yeah it would be nice to have won some of those games but its not looking too bad right now. When LO and Kwame gets back, the Lakers will be in position to peak at the right time, which is during the playoffs. I feel like They have improved so much even since the beginning of this season, that it doesn't matter if they drop a couple like last night. What is good about being a Laker fan is that every night teams are going to be at their best and often will play above their heads on their home floor. Basically, with 2 of our best players out, I'm not worried about these games right now.
Ken
Posted by: Ken | January 10, 2007 at 01:09 PM
LAL Fan,
Actually, C-Webb played 75 games last season. It's only this year he's been sitting excessively, although I wonder if any of that may have come on Philly's part to help move along the buy out.
He could end up riding the bench, for sure, but for a vet's minimum, I'd take a flyer on the guy. His mobility ain't what it used to be, but he can still score, plus he's a very good rebounder (which the team really needs) and passer (which works well in the triangle). And he's a defensive liability, meaning he'll fit right in. haha
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 10, 2007 at 01:14 PM
The Memphis loss by far, for the simple fact that it followed such a big win over Dallas and I'm desperately hoping this team is ready to "turn the corner". Maybe I need to realize that we have a ways to go, but the Dallas game made me think (for a brief second LakerTom) that maybe we could get up around 55 wins and be a team to beat.
But alas, the Lakers that I know and love over the past two years reared it's ugly head and I have to be content with my above-average, in the growing process team. Sniff, sniff.
Posted by: Andrew Z | January 10, 2007 at 01:29 PM
AK,
Completely agree with you on C-Webb. With injuries we are woefully thin up front, and C-Webb for cheap is about as good as we could hope for.
Posted by: Andrew Z | January 10, 2007 at 01:31 PM
I don't disagree that he would help...especially since we're woefully thin on size right now...but I just shudder at the thought of him being a Laker. Kinda like Bibby being a laker...and in my opinion that's more likely. Then again, Vlade became a laker, so not that far fetched really.
Posted by: Faith | January 10, 2007 at 01:38 PM
I think I have to agree with Faith - Christmas was worse than either the Bobcats or Memphis loss for me.
I was home visiting the folks and all I got to hear from my father was: "I thought you said the Lakers were good this year? They look terrible."
Whew.
Posted by: J Mike | January 10, 2007 at 01:40 PM
Andrew Z,
I just don't see much of a risk. Sure, Webber could end up not doing much of anything, especially if LO and Kwame return relatively quickly and stay healthy. But they may not on either count. Plus Ronny's hips are keeping him from playing the minutes Phil would like and Vlad's been pretty disappointing. The guy might actually help out.
Or not one bit. But if it's just a question of, for example, waiving Shammond Williams to find out, I'd chance it.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 10, 2007 at 01:42 PM
CWebb would definitely help and not hurt the Lakers. I hope they sign him.
Posted by: Vincent | January 10, 2007 at 01:42 PM
Both losses are BAD!! No excuses for those.
LAL fan - is "worser" a word??
Posted by: keifo | January 10, 2007 at 01:48 PM
SMUSH PARKER SUCKS AND HE IS THE REASON WHY WE LOSE TO BELOW AVERAGE TEAMS!!!! THAT IS THE REASON AND THE ONLY REASON
Posted by: Zakee | January 10, 2007 at 01:50 PM
WHY C-Webb MAKE SENSE
---Two of our inside players are down and we don't know how is going to be their recovery.
----Bynum and Kwame are really inexperienced players and in a big stage both can implode. It’s always good to have a extra experience inside player that for sure can give you 10 or 12 points.
----He could be along Turiaf the only true power forward player in tthe roster.
----He is a perfect player for triangle system: Good medium range shot, excellent passing abilities and smartness.
Posted by: jorema | January 10, 2007 at 01:54 PM
AK
100 % with you...
Let's brings C-WEBB.
Common' Mitch. Kobe. Phil. Magic.
To the phone.
Since KObe can play like Nash if needed, I'm shure
players will love to come to electric an popular team as Lakers.
Nobody want's to go to Miami, they are in chaos and disarray.
Posted by: jorema | January 10, 2007 at 01:59 PM
Overall, I think the game last night was the worst, because at times we didn't look like we belonged on the court with them. But what worried me the most was probably what Wade did to us on Christmas, because it's been problematic for us this year; a star guard killing our D. It's the elite players we're going to see in the playoffs, and Wade just diced us like he was the Swedish chef. Much like Redd had earlier, and Arenas did. Hell, Vince had a pretty good game against us too, although we won.
For me, Phoenix is the one team I'm convinced we're not ready to play right now. I'd much rather take a crack at San Antonio in the playoffs.
Posted by: Michael A | January 10, 2007 at 01:59 PM
"Charlotte, worst emotional loss ever, this year"
C Webb, No brainer! Read my post earlier as to reasons why he should be a Laker.
Faith, that SAC uniform was only temporary. He would look awfully nice in P & G and sunday white.
Posted by: FATTY | January 10, 2007 at 02:03 PM
Ditto, I'd rather play SA or Dallas instead of Phoenix. We already did that once.
Bring on CWebb.
Colorado loves the LAKERS!
Posted by: Hugo Boss | January 10, 2007 at 02:07 PM
Is it just me or is Zakee's posts starting to get annoying?
Walton and Cook shot a combined 5 for 21 from the field and this fools posts up...
"SMUSH PARKER SUCKS AND HE IS THE REASON WHY WE LOSE"
We get it you tool... you don't like Smush. You don't need to keep posting it every 5 minutes. Get a new take, or quit posting. "SMUSH PARKER SUCKS, posted by Zakee" after every game regardless of how he plays is not benifiting this blog in any way.
For Jeebus sakes, find somthing new to say. :/
Posted by: frank rizzo | January 10, 2007 at 02:11 PM
can someone post the ESPN.com Insider article "10 BEST moves of the offseason?"
Posted by: showtime 07 | January 10, 2007 at 02:12 PM
FATTY and Jorema:
word em up on c webb.
perfect fit for tha show.
that loss to memphis was worse than the xmas massacre, i had already gotten over it.
how do you beat the best team in the west on sunday, then get waxed by the worst team in the west on tuesday?
i am not sure what is gonna make me cringe more tonight - the lakers d or dubya stuttering his war policy...
viva c webb on tha lake show!
a power forward who can rebound, pass & shoot...
Posted by: tha show | January 10, 2007 at 02:13 PM
c webb STAT!
Posted by: tha show | January 10, 2007 at 02:20 PM
I'm worried Miami will pick up Webber.
Posted by: zen | January 10, 2007 at 02:22 PM
good point zen.
hopefully c webb prefers the west coast.
hands off riley, c webb belongs on the purple & gold.
tha show!
Posted by: tha show | January 10, 2007 at 02:26 PM
Memphis hurts sure, but they're much improved. I agree that Miami as the most painful and then Charlotte after that.
These losses are good because they exploit our weaknesses more tangibly. But, I suspect Phil and the coaching staff are plenty good at finding and finding Laker weaknesses without throwing away games to solidify a home field advantage providing record. You want to find your weaknesses against the best teams in the league which have fewer of them than you do.
Please get healthy again Lamar and Kwame!
Posted by: Benjamin | January 10, 2007 at 02:26 PM
The "winning right now" mentality should be applied. San Antonio did it, Phoenix did it with Tim Thomas.
When Andres Miller play the first game for for Sixers C-Webb came with 18 points, 12 boards, 8 assits. He though they will try to win for the rest of the season, but they decide to play the kids and wait for the draft.
This should be a good weapon, not the complete solution, but if he is healthy he can make the team much more deep.
MItch, Phil, Kobe....to the phones.
If Horace Grant came here almost broken down and was a good assest, bring the C-Webb.
Posted by: jorema | January 10, 2007 at 02:33 PM
take the starting power forward and center off any team in the nba (especially the elite squads) and how good would they fare?
i have to check myself sometimes when i complain about tha show's inconsistency and lack of defense - and remember that we have two key components out with serious injuries.
the lakers are doing pretty well, considering the injuries they have suffered so far this season.
this isn't the finished product.
in tha show we trust.
Posted by: tha show | January 10, 2007 at 02:35 PM
Phoenix could try to pry him.
Dallas too, San Antonio, will love it.
Please, Mitch...be smart...go to get him
Posted by: jorema | January 10, 2007 at 02:36 PM
Nobody though a fragile and injured Sam Cassell could bring to Clippers land that punch of improvement.
The same with C_Webb.
Bring that "dude" to us.
Posted by: jorema | January 10, 2007 at 02:38 PM
Frank Rizzo
I can depend on Luke and we don't realy need Cookie when the going get tough, because that is LO spot as long as he is heathly. But Smush Parker is not dependable as a point guard and is hurting us as a starter. SO SMUSH PARKER SUCKS and until he comes out of the starting lineup and don't care what type of analysis you guys have we will always have an up and down year this year which does not sit well with me unlike you. You can stay content with Smush Parker, but I think he sucks and I am going to voice my opinion every day on every blog that I am talk on that has to do with the LAKE SHOW. Nobody ask you to read my post. It is your fault that you are catching feeling which means it must be some truth in what I am saying because none of you are defending him with stats. All you guys say is that Lukae had a bad game and Kobe did play that good. Well have you guys ever heard of a piont gaurd. Nobody says that Smush has to score,but his job as point guard is to make sure that our team doesn't lose. Yeah Kobe will win the games for us, but the point guard is always the brain of a team. Even if he is not depended on to do point guard duties. And for that reaso Smush Parker sucks.
STATS NOT COMPARISONS. The facts are that Bynum plays better as starter, so I am going to bet my money that SASHA AND FARMER feel the same way.
Posted by: Zakee | January 10, 2007 at 02:40 PM
The Bobcat lost was it for me. On the C-Webb topic, Mitch has to consider this move, its almost a no brainer. Injuries have been an issue this year, we could use a vet in the line-up as well as Webb's rebounding along with experience playing against the west coast bigs I see another plus! He's getting older no doubt but within our offense and with him only needing limited playing minutes I think its a solid fit and makes us one mo' deeper.
Posted by: LakerFaze | January 10, 2007 at 02:45 PM
Alright Zakee,
Your right, you can post all you want. I'll start skipping over your posts. Not because I don't like you, or even nessasarily that I disagree with your posts. I don't need to read them for the simple fact that if you've read one... you've read them all already. lol
Posted by: frank rizzo | January 10, 2007 at 02:50 PM
I don't understand how anyone can want Mayce Webber III (C-Webb) to join the Lakers. The Lakers are a winning franchise. We don't need a continual Loser... He has proven to be a cancer on any team he joins. Has he ever won anything? ever? The answer is NO. If he isn't fumbling the ball out of bounds, traveling, or missing clutch free-throws down the stretch, he's probably calling a time-out. Mayce does not deserve to be a Laker. Period.
Posted by: Matt | January 10, 2007 at 02:51 PM
I would like to see Webb here, but I doubt its gonna happen. :(
I just hope that if he dosen't come to the Lakers, he stays on the east coast.
Posted by: frank rizzo | January 10, 2007 at 02:52 PM
Miami was definetly the worst loss to me because of the lack of effort in front of a national audience on X-mas Day.
Memphis is really not that bad now that they got Gasol back as they were not deep enough to miss their star player for the first 2 months.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE...Bring on C-Webb! I definetly think it would be a great addition. Who wouldn't want to take a chance on someone who could give you at least 10pts / 7rebs / 3asst for the Vet minimium. It's worth a chance to get a vet like that. Mitch, I hope you read this:)
Posted by: Freddie B | January 10, 2007 at 02:53 PM
Charlotte man..I had to sit there and get heckled by about 25 people in my section cuz I was wearing my bright gold 24...that and the fact carroll scored 27 pts...i didnt even know who he was
Posted by: Ed | January 10, 2007 at 02:54 PM
Lakers fans better get used to this. This team has not earned the rank of elite. It's good and effective, but just not there yet. When Lamar gets back, it will be a step in the right direction.
This game was not as bad as the Heat loss. The Heat team was without Shaq. Wade singlehandedly beat the Lakers and outdueled Kobe on national television.
The Memphis Grizzlies are a good team under Jerry West's management. The Grizzlies have a bad record because Pau Gasol, an NBA All-Star, was out a lot games with a fractured foot. The Grizzlies were doing well last year too until Damon Stoudemire got injured.
No one could have predicted a stinging blow out, but not too many could have seen Sasha step up in the 4th quarter to beat the Mavericks. The Lakers are where they should be without Lamar, and are doing quite well without him.
Anyway, the Lakers have a ways to go. The Western conference is crowded with a lot of good competition from the obvious ones like the red-hot Suns, and still the Mavericks and Spurs. Go further down and you'll see that Utah, Houston and Denver all have potential.
Denver is really the team to watch out for. That team might be one of the more exciting teams (right behind the Lakers) to watch. J.R. Smith, who is a phenomenal athlete, will join A.I. in the backcourt tonight. The talk is that J.R., A.I. and Carmelo have already developed a lot of team chemistry. Don't forget Marcus Camby, a shot blocking, rebounding beast.
The Lakers have depth, but unless Lamar steps up when he returns at the end of the month into an All-Star caliber player (not with statistics, but with big shots), the Lakers aren't going to be just one of those teams you just can give the W to, they have to earn it.
Posted by: kgb | January 10, 2007 at 02:54 PM
c webb could rejuvenate his career with tha show.
i think it would be a good move.
we better get on it, cause you know riley is already making some phone calls. you know how much he likes those vets without rings.
c'mon kupchak - get the okay from the doctor and make the move.
Posted by: tha show | January 10, 2007 at 02:59 PM
Zakee,
Smush may not be the best point guard in the league, but that's ok, the Lakers are not exaclty built for a true point guard. There are three other starters that can and do bring the ball up all the time (Kobe, LO and Luke). We run the triangle most of the time, which eliminates the need for PG dribble penetration. Usually when we do set high screens, they are for Kobe or LO.
Smush has been instrumental in several of our wins, for example, the block of Jason Terry (vs. Dallas)for one, and the driving layup to send the game into OT (vs. SAC) for another. Don't let stats fool you.
Smush needs to improve his mid-range jumper, which he worked on in the off season. If he can develop in that area, you will be singing a different tune.
Before you even talk about defense, realize that this team is made to be BIG, not fast. Pick and Roll defense requires good rotation, which in the case of the Lakers means anticipation. There isn't a player on the team that can't stand to improve in this area, Kobe included.
J-
Posted by: johnnyb | January 10, 2007 at 03:02 PM
Hey whats up, after a 3 game layoff im back to whine about the game last night. Just kidding i really cant reasonably complain, PHX has the opposite problem losing to all the good teams in the league, but still they run around like the best thing since sliced bread, we still are THE premiere team in the league, everyone gets up to play us besides we have traded so many players it seems like every night we meet a couple of former players looking to make a point against us. RIGHT NOW WHEN #7 COMES BACK WE ARE THE BEST IN THE WEST!! Remember our games are always determinded by what WE do and not what the other team does.
Posted by: Rizzo | January 10, 2007 at 03:05 PM
Hey Zakee, ever heard of Jason Kidd {Rookie of the year, one of the best guards in the league} well he had 0 points in a playoff game his team lost, it happens, but you dont give up great players when they struggle, i guess you would have traded KB24 with all the mistakes he made when he came into the league. Just a question, ever dribble a b-ball outside of the park.....................i didnt think so!
Posted by: Rizzo | January 10, 2007 at 03:15 PM
Chris Webber for the veteran's minimum? What a bargain. Over his career, he's averaged a double-double. He would be a great mentor for young Andrew, and provide savvy veteran leadership.
The only thing is the team will have so much depth at the front court position when Lamar and Kwame return. Andrew Bynum really wants playing time. Add Vlade Radmanovic, Cooke, and Turiaf and you've got an overloaded, overstocked roster of bigs.
Pick him up and then figure out what to do with him is my take.
Posted by: kgb | January 10, 2007 at 03:18 PM
Matt,
We have one guy with a championship ring on this team and very few with much playoff experience at all. C-Webb was the best player on Sac teams that were some of the best in the league and went to the Conference Finals. To me, that's winning something. He is definitely not the player he once was, but he's not a loser by any means.
Would you consider any player without a ring a loser? KG, AI, Dirk, Nash, etc.?
just curious
Posted by: Andrew Z | January 10, 2007 at 03:22 PM
I vote NO on C-Webb. We could possibly use a veteran guard, but we don't need C-Web. He could make another team much better like Tim Thomas did last year, but so what.
Posted by: Ken | January 10, 2007 at 03:29 PM
If there are 3-4 teams interested in Webber, we will not be able to get him for the veteran's minimum. Maybe for half the midlevel exception.
I think this would be an OK move. I have never liked Webber or his game, but at the right price and with the right expectations, it could give us a boost in the dog days coming up.
As long as we understand Webber will give us nothing on D and cannot be counted on in the clutch, we can appreciate 10-15 minutes a game of shooting, some rebounding and superior inside passing. Remember, he will be taking the 2nd quarter/late 3rd quarter shift, so he will be facing the other teams backups.
As far as the defense goes, he really can't be any worse than Brian Cook.
Posted by: Jman449 | January 10, 2007 at 03:35 PM
You know what Im worried about more than anything.
Its this:
If more teams watch the lakers play, they might realize that an easy way to beat us is to wait for Kobe to rest and THEN implement the zone defense on the 2nd unit.
Many will say the second group brought us back, but at that point, we were playing their scrubs too and you know what happens when you get a big lead.
Anyway, that is something to watch out for going forward. If more teams use the zone to baffle our second unit while Kobe sits, we do not have the penetration abiltiy wiht Sasha and Mo, like other teams do, to penetrate the zone effectively until Lamar comes back.
Lets hope that no team realizes this!
Posted by: Alex | January 10, 2007 at 03:36 PM
WHAT HURTS MOST!!! THE LOST TO THIS GRIZZLES
FEW DAYS BACK WE'RE CELEBRATING......
AND AFTER A COUPLE OF DAYS.... WE WE'RE BADLY BEATEN BY THE WORST TEAM IN THE WEST!!!!
WHAT A LOST!!
SMUSH SUCKS THIS TIME!!!!!
Posted by: nonzki | January 10, 2007 at 03:38 PM