KCAL Feed Game Thread - Lakers vs. Knicks
January 30, 2007 | 5:33
pm
If I ran KCAL, I would take advantage of the delay and CGI in old footage of Kobe playing throughout the broadcast as a means of protesting #24's suspension. But I don't run KCAL. I'm just a dude with basic cable (and League Pass, of course).
AK
In this case I would have to agree that it would be better to put Kwame against Curry because of his defensive presence in the middle. Bynum was getting man handled tonight by a stronger player. However I also feel that it is equally important to get Bynum going early. Overall I think that you have to assess the situation. We should start Bynum early and then put Kwame in to play some solid D.
Posted by: Mik3y | January 30, 2007 at 09:04 PM
Lakofan,
Yeah, I heard Worthy, and I'd say the same thing to him that I've said to everyone else. You're gonna have to give me a "conspiracy" explanation that actually makes sense. So far, nobody's really given one.
It's quite easy (and sometimes silly) to cry "conspiracy," but people don't just plot anything for no reason whatsoever. There has to be a motivation and I can't see what would be behind looking to take down one of the league's most popular players among fans at the peak of his career, as many of you have suggested is happening. It follows no logic on many a level.
Like I said before, If they are looking hard at Kobe in particular, I'm concerned that it's because they have some idea in their head that Kobe is a unnecessarily physical or dirty-ish player. I don't know why they'd think that, but I'm wondering why the tape was reviewed out of nowhere. Not that the league made the right call, mind you. But why they'd even look at all, since it was an easily forgotten incident.
Otherwise, I'm wondering if it's similar to why I think they went overboard suspending Melo, as a means of showing a lack of star treatment when certain things happen, like potentially illegal contact. According to Marc Stein, there also was a memo sent out to players at the beginning of the season that the league would be watching for elbow usage and reprecussions could come from such contact, whether intentional or not. Perhaps this is how they're making the message clear.
If that's the case, my reaction is two-fold. One, it's a dumb thing for the league to harp on in such fashion. If you know an incident may not have been intentional, that should equal a foul and nothing more.
Two, if you're gonna insist on enforcing something to obviously subjective to a large degree, heavy discretion must be used. And in this case, the incident was already out of everyone's minds, so to make an "example" of Kobe over what appears "no harm, no foul" doesn't so much demonstrate fairness as an inappropriate overreaction. But that's not "conspiracy." That's just stupidity and overcontrolling.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 30, 2007 at 09:13 PM
Stu Jackson: "It had nothing to do with image"
AH I see...so it's not coz he's a dirty player (he's not)...or that you want to label him one, coz it has nothing to do with image. I see!
It's probably just me but I'm not "smart" enough to understand their excuses.
Posted by: Faith in my treo | January 30, 2007 at 09:31 PM
Can someone paste Stein's blog entry re: Kobe suspension? I don't really need Sheridan's response as it's probably very close to what Stu, Stern, and Kiwi have already said. Thanks.
Posted by: mel | January 30, 2007 at 09:33 PM
lakes can't pull out the close games all of a sudden.
we can't rebound
we can't defend
we can't maintain leads and put teams away..
i wouldn't be surprised if boston wins tomorrow. seriously.
Posted by: CBuck | January 30, 2007 at 09:39 PM
Ric Bucher was just on SportsCenter and gave his opinion, which I thought may have gotten to the root of things. Basically, it was that Kobe, inadvertently or not, injured Ginobli on national TV for a Sunday afternoon game (a time/broadcast factor I wasn't heavily considering, but probably should have). Not the image the league wants their viewers to see, thus they "need" to look like they're not allowing such things to happen.
This explanation actually makes sense for a couple reasons. For starters, the NBA now overreacts to anything ever since the Palace Brawl. And frankly, they need to stop, because the more they overreact, the more they constantly keep reminding everyone of the incident. I think David Stern's prioritizations are actually doing as much or more harm as help.
Bucher's theory also makes sense because it makes the entire thing specifically about the league image (albeit quite misguided), as opposed to a quest to "bring down Kobe," which again, makes no sense.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 30, 2007 at 09:41 PM
what's going here? smush still think he's home, so he's chilling. LO is sleeping, Vlad is sleeping, Cook is sleeping, Jordan is taken out of the game, Phil is too busy thinking of Kobe, and Stu... what's going w/ you? why don't you start to suspend other players that hit Kobe. give him some respect.. would you?
Posted by: khang | January 30, 2007 at 09:42 PM
first 3 game skid of the year.
damn.
i really hope this squad doesn't begin to accept losing.
honestly, it's as if they play with zero pride.
i do not mind losing, i do mind losing when maximum effort is not being given.
smush sucks.
zakee will be having a field day tommorrow.
lakers will be lucky to finish this roadie at 4-4.
damn.
Posted by: tha show | January 30, 2007 at 09:52 PM
AK,
He also scoffed at the image issue...he said "excuse me" I think.
Posted by: Faith in my treo | January 30, 2007 at 09:54 PM
everybody keeps saying it was an elbow and it wasn't even an elbow.
Posted by: wow | January 30, 2007 at 09:55 PM
AK do you think Smush has hit the wall again? As I recall it was around this time, if not later where he literally obviously getting worse. I'm not saying he sucks...I'm fully aware I'm known as a "Smush hater" haha...frankly I'm tempted to say it at this point...but as he struggles we struggle, so he needs to stop turning the ball over at crucial times!
Posted by: Faith in my treo | January 30, 2007 at 09:57 PM
AK,
Yes, it's about the league's image. But Stu Jackson wouldn't run this routine if it happened to concern one of the younger stars.
Remember last Christmas when Wade got Kobe on the head - plain, clear, and out in the open? I believe that was also on national TV. In fact, I believe it very clearly, since Mr. Stern spent months promoting that game as the ABC game to end all ABC games.
Posted by: Miguelinho | January 30, 2007 at 10:01 PM
Faith,
As to your first point, if Stu Jackson says it's not an "image" thing, I'm likely to call "BS." This league is the most image conscious in sports, to the point where I think they're often both doing themselves a disservice and not always fair to its players.
As for the Smush question, it's hard to say. He's had a couple bad games, but his last few weeks have actually been pretty good, so I would hold off pushing the panic button just quite yet. it may just be a slump. Plus, the team as a whole hasn't been playing great and bad play is often contagious. That being said, you're right, he does need to pick it up after a couple bad outings.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 30, 2007 at 10:03 PM
and that's the problem, tha show
where's the effort?
rebounding is sheer effort and yet, night after night we're getting bullywacked under the boards... by DAVID LEE?!!? i know the kids' from st. louis but my God, he ain't all that!
it's so frustrating. and how can professionals not be able to hit free throws?!
LO's back, so what? we're still getting out-efforted, out-hustled and out-smarted.
i'm about to reach my boiling point
Posted by: CBuck | January 30, 2007 at 10:03 PM
p.s. i can't believe there's still even a debate about kobe
seriously?
it's tomorrow already.
seriously?
Posted by: CBuck | January 30, 2007 at 10:05 PM
ISIAH THOMAS:
"Very rarely do you have blowouts and we didn't think that by no means that we were going to blow them out. But I'm glad Kobe didn't play. I'm really happy he didn't play."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/basketball/nba/01/30/lakers.knicks.ap/index.html
Real classy. I guess it's the G.W. Bush strategy: don't hide your connections to the front office; use every trick in the book and just feel proud that your has-been [posterior] got a win on a night you shouldn't have won.
Posted by: Miguelinho | January 30, 2007 at 10:06 PM
I agree with those that feel Smush should not have been in the game for the last 4+ minutes. Farmar had been playing very well and hustling on defense, and he wasn't making silly turnovers and taking bad shots.
Posted by: Jon F. | January 30, 2007 at 10:12 PM
AK,
I support your view that the league wouldn't go out of their way to get Kobe...it wouldn't make any sense. They did it to protect the league's image. And there must've been some warning against this type of thing before hand.
Let's not discuss whether the suspension actually makes sense. It doesn't. Everybody agrees so. But there's something else that's at work here.
Today Kobe did this. And he got suspended. Now let's say Wade did what Kobe did. Would he get suspended? How about LeBron? and now...how about Artest?
Now let's think back, KG tried to throw a punch, and that's one game suspension. Are you saying an attempted punch is worth as much as that elbow incident?
No, the league didn't go out to get Kobe, but personal reputations do play a big part of this. And, in that sense, the league is quite unfair, and do have preferential treatments. The fact that it's Kobe who commited the elbow thing makes it easier for the league to call for the suspension, as opposed to, say, Wade did it.
Is this conspiracy? I guess not quite. Is it fair? No, and it did eventually cost us a game.
Posted by: JusmanX | January 30, 2007 at 10:21 PM
AK,
The thing here is that Kobe does not 'follow' the rest of the league, he is way too smart and way too self confident to do that, and I do think the league does not like that.
Maybe if we go with a conspiracy theory I would go with the one Joe Mcdonell said, that is the league getting even with Phil Jackson for showing the refs mistakes and insulting them. And that the whole team pays for that.
Or what about, the league got upset because Kobe made fun of Robert Horry, laughed at him after missing the 3 pointer and later Kobe saying that he in fact fouled him.
So does that make sense?
We will never know what goes into these stupid decisions, but what I do know is that Kobe in fact does not get any love from the nba, now more people are taking note of that.
Even your espn friends defended Kobe which in fact is something outrages.
Lets see what happens when other players do the same thing kobe did. Lets see how many non calls Kobe gets. Lets see what happens when Kobe gets hit with an elbow(like he does almost every single game) Because if these things continue to happen, even you have to admit something fishy is going on.
It's not a conspiracy, but when the oportunity comes along to make Kobe look bad and hurt him, they do it.
They may not be in their offices making plans to ruin Kobe, but if they see an opening to ruin a game here a game there, they'll do it.
Posted by: lakofan | January 30, 2007 at 10:31 PM
Lakofan,
I heard Worthy's explanation along those lines and I had no idea what he was talking about. What doesn't Kobe "follow," so to speak? He's not terribly outspoken. He's not flashy, loud or rude off the court. And if anything, he's spent the last couple years "playing the game" considerably more. He's become more approachable with teammates. He's "playing the right way." That the league would theoretically target him now that he's doing what they'd prefer in the first place seems more than a little odd.
I also seriously doubt this had anything to do with him making a face at Horry. They're buddies/old teammates and it's obvious from their rapport that it was all in fun. And players make comments all the time about having fouled other players and gotten away with it for comedic effect. And it's not a crime to foul a guy, anyway. You get 6 per game.
I don't understand why everyone can't simply accept the idea that the league may have overreacted and did something stupid. Sounds perfectly believable to me.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 30, 2007 at 10:42 PM
This organization has bigger problems than a one game Kobe suspension. The league has obviously scouted and adjusted, too many losses later, our value menu roster isn't quite inspiring comparisons to Laker greats of yesteryear. This is a storied franchise. 2nd round of the playoffs was fine for Cedric Ceballos but Kobe Bryant deserves better.
It's obvious the team is at least a piece shy of the couple pieces that PHil and Kobe said they needed. Till summer, it's going to be earn while you learn.
Posted by: Vman | January 30, 2007 at 10:45 PM
this is what Phil said:
The action left Lakers coach Phil Jackson so aggravated he jokingly suggested retribution by holding Bryant out of upcoming marquee matchups against Cleveland’s LeBron James to hurt league TV ratings.
Countered Phil Jackson: “There are so many things going into it that to draw a conclusion like that lends me to think that a non-basketball player probably made the decision on this particular act. I would think someone who played basketball knows how people work to get a foul or create contact.”
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/abox/article_1559306.php
so maybe joe's conspiracy theory is not way off on this.
Posted by: lakofan | January 30, 2007 at 10:47 PM
Mike T. you are right on Bynum. The kid has a lot of things to learn when he can dominate the post, then that's the Lakers will benefit from him. Right now, he's good for 20 minutes and reserve it on 3rd and 4th quarter. He's becoming Travis Knight in commiting fouls. Secondly, Lakers are not really deep team, only lucky when they were playing more games at home. I find it an imbalance lineup because Odom and Kobe are ready for the big game like the Showtime but the role players are not. There's always melt down in the end game, that's a sign of immaturity, careless with time management, ball movements and the will to win.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | January 30, 2007 at 10:51 PM
Lakofan,
"It's not a conspiracy, but when the oportunity comes along to make Kobe look bad and hurt him, they do it. They may not be in their offices making plans to ruin Kobe, but if they see an opening to ruin a game here a game there, they'll do it."
That's actually the definition of a conspiracy. Whether league officials have weekly "anti-Kobe" meetings or it's simply understood without requiring a pow-wow to be aware of opportunities to hurt him, what you're describing is a concerted effort on the league's part to do him harm. And like I said, I don't think there is a specific agenda of any sort on their part. That strikes me as absolutely non-sensical, unless someone can explain otherwise.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 30, 2007 at 11:09 PM
AK,
Obviously you have your opinion and I have mine.
I could in fact tell you why I do believe is about Kobe not following the rest, about him not being like the rest and what James was talking about. But I don't really want to get into that, maybe later on.
It may be too complicated to write here and I rather not.
Besides it happened already, and it's another day, and we'll see how things develop now.
Maybe the good thing about this is that I saw more support for Kobe and that only helps Kobe.
I'm now more worried about this team and how they show no effort.
Posted by: lakofan | January 30, 2007 at 11:11 PM
Lakofan,
That's fine. Whenever you want to share, feel free. I'd be interested in hearing it. And yeah, I was also glad to hear the support for Kobe, although it really didn't surprise me. He's clearly getting the raw end of a bad decision. I'd entirely forgotten the incident until today and I was there when it happened. How bad could it have been?
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 30, 2007 at 11:16 PM
AK,
Well it was a surprise to me, since journalists usually sided with anyone who would talk bad about Kobe.
They would find a way to twist things to make Kobe look bad. For stupid little things, today that was not the case.
I know you don't believe that, but I do, and today it was very refreshing hearing people supporting Kobe.
Posted by: lakofan | January 30, 2007 at 11:31 PM
It would be great if Chris came back soon or in march:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lakerep31jan31,1,3660754.story?coll=la-headlines-sports
I'm really happy for Chris, I like him a lot.
Posted by: lakofan | January 30, 2007 at 11:43 PM
the nba didn't want kobe to break jordan's MSG record. If wade or james had made 81points we would never hear the end of it. Kobe doesn't get calls because they don't want him to go for 100. Wade gets calls because they want him to get more than 81. Even agent 0 is getting more hype than kobe.
every kobe hater almost died after that 81 game. It's simple, the NBA doesn't want kobe and they don't care how many people like him because they will ram wade and james up our butts until we like it.
that's how I feel but maybe i've just been drinking tooooo much. lol
Posted by: bob | January 30, 2007 at 11:54 PM
AK,
Why didn't David stern/stu Jackson worry about the league's image when shaq broke Stackhouse's nose in the finals on the National TV with much more viewers watching? Ric Bucher's league image theory doesn't make that much sense either.
Posted by: rainingday | January 31, 2007 at 12:00 AM
What's shocking about Kobe's suspension is that at the time of the event there was a three-man (3 person?) NBA police force on the scene, whose job is to detect all violations. They didn't notice anything, but Stu Jackson watches TV and decides they -- and Popovitch and Ginobili -- were blind and only he could see!
Doesn't this remind you of Orwell's Big Brother?
Posted by: Tsphere | January 31, 2007 at 12:34 AM
Hey AK,
What about this for a conspiracy theory explanation. The NBA (D. Stern & S. Jackson) have invested so much money in trying to promote the east coast (D Wade & L James), they cannot afford to let Kobe continue to outshine them. Kobe's not their golden boy anymore, period. We can't stop him so let's just throw up some road blocks. (1st game of a rough road trip......I know let's suspend him for some inadvertant action in a game that was over, two days ago. That should screw with his mind.)
As far as the suspension goes, come on so what if it was on national TV. No one even thought twice about that play until the league showcased it. The only people bringing this league down are the suits.
Posted by: laydeebee | January 31, 2007 at 07:09 AM
The lakers have bigger problems than kobes one game suspension. AK can you ask Phil what he was thinking when he put Smush back in the game with 4 mins to go and took out Farmar, who was playing well.
Posted by: Laker Lover | January 31, 2007 at 07:41 AM
People the reason we are loosing these games is obviously because of the lack of the inside presence that Kwame Brown provides. When he first went out we compensated for his loss, but know as teams are adjusting it is becoming increasingly hard to win games. He is without a doubt the best interior defenders we have his rebounding has been hugely miss. One thing that I have noticed is that without Kwame, Lamar is not able to grab as many rebounds. When Kwame gets back we will be back to are winning ways. I'm expecting a very positive road trip with perhaps winning the last five games and going on a little 7 or 8 game win streak
Posted by: jamesdajoker | January 31, 2007 at 09:09 AM
I just don't understand why Phil keeps going with Smush.
Maybe he doesn't want to give up on Smush Parker. Maybe he is being a good person to Smush. I mean the guy is in a contract year. Maybe Phil really doesn't like rookies. If that's the case, why not go with Sasha. I mean clearly the team just doesn't give Smush the ball. They look right pass on on the court, and they don't pass it to him for wide open shoots, because they are not sure about the guy. I mean this is really beginning to be sad situation. We keep doing the same things over and over and over again. It just amazes me that we have lost more games against the lower half of the teams then the top half.
I am getting tired myself of saying that Smush Parker sucks. I it getting really ridiculous to be saying the same thing over and over again. But it is not like the guy has changed my mind. Smush Parker is probably the greatest friend that you can have. But a starter for the LA Lakers s something that he is not. It is a shame to see a guy not take advantage on being on a team with the best player in the country. You have to big men, and a 6'10 can do everything guy. I mean as a point guard playing along side of these guys should be a dream come true. Smush should always play like he is taking advantage of the moment.
It is not like things are going to change, because at this point I think the Smush will alway gives us alittle then turn right back into his old self again.
Smush plays like a person that plays basketball in a pick up game that doesn't get the ball and thinks that it is everybody else's fault why his team is losing. You guys know. Like when you are out there playing and you play with 4 guys that are from the same town and they tend to pass to ball to everybody but you. Well Smush is that guy.
He is the odd one in the starting lineup.
He is the only one on the team that doesn't make the teammates around him better. Luke does, KB, LO, AND even Bynum are all good at the basics of basketball. They make very good passes and are very fundementally sound.
I bet you guy in practice Smush is never first in any drills. That is the way he plays the game of basketball. He thinks he can just turn it on and off whenever he wants. Bsketball is about hard work and dedication. Smush is showing that over the course of the summer he did nothing to improve on his game. He has no confidence to make any type of play on the court. For some reason if you notice, Farmer doesn't care if he makes mistakes, because he know how to cover his mistake up in the next play or so. Smush on the other hand doesn't know how to do that. His mistakes are always crucial because he doesn't know how to erase the play by making something good happen. I don't think that any of the Lakers trust Smush Parker when it comes to his play making ability.
Posted by: Zakee | January 31, 2007 at 09:21 AM
Guys :
No one beats Lakers...................but the NBA League!
Posted by: A.J. | January 31, 2007 at 09:29 AM
Kobe needs to score 100 tonight, then he'd really show them lol. But I predict the Lakers doing well on this roadtrip. There's no way in hell Kobe is going to let this team fall apart. Phil has got to be pissed with the way his team is playing. Tear em up in practice Phil! Do whatever you have to do because we're coming out sluggish and not focused.
Posted by: mik3y | January 31, 2007 at 09:37 AM
Gotta love Phil:
"In Stu Jackson's analysis, the blow was "not ... inadvertent," so that and the element of contact above the shoulders merited suspension.
Countered Phil Jackson: "There are so many things going into it that to draw a conclusion like that lends me to think that a non-basketball player probably made the decision on this particular act. I would think someone who played basketball knows how people work to get a foul or create contact."
Posted by: BrandonC | January 31, 2007 at 09:45 AM
man we need a win baaaaad. remember what happened last year when we needed a win really baaaaad.
Posted by: bob | January 31, 2007 at 09:48 AM
AK
How can you explain that 3 people (refs) didnt think anything about the Kobe's slap (they didnt blow the whistle) then the NBA suits reviewed it and change the complexion of the next game while their REFS who commits lots of mistake (dont give me the excuse of they being human), dont reprimand their refs. give them a suspension for making bad calls. If you work in a regular company and you makes tons of mistake, you'll be out-the-door in a day.
Ron l
Posted by: ron l | January 31, 2007 at 10:07 AM
Laydee,
I don't buy that explanation. It's not like Kobe's success is keeping Wade and LeBron jerseys from selling. The league's making money off all three. It's not like Wade or LeBron are facing a short shelf life, so the NBA needs to capitalize on them ASAP. There's plenty of room for all 3 (plus Melo, Arenas, Nash, Dirk, etc.). That the NBA would consciously tear down one great asset for the sake of two other assets while all three are serving them well seems odd on its best day.
As for me personally, it doesn't matter whether the game was on national TV or not. But the league may think about stuff like that. It's certainly easier to picture them being overly image conscious than them conspiring to bring down one of their most popular players.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 31, 2007 at 10:15 AM
Ron l,
It's not the first time a play that didn't draw a whistle ended up getting reviewed after the game. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.
That being said, you raise a good point. If this was bad enough to merit Kobe's suspension, the refs should receive some kind of reprimand for not blowing a whistle. Then again, there was no need to even review the play after the fact, so it's not surprising to me that the league is messing up other steps along the way.
Like I said, I don't think it's a conspiracy. It just think it's over-controlling idiocy.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 31, 2007 at 10:21 AM
AK,
According to New York Times, Stu Jackson gave an assurance of reviewing the appeal some other time perhaps after they have been overcome by the events. Really funny.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | January 31, 2007 at 10:51 AM
Edwin,
Yeah, I don't get that, either.
If they'll bother to hear Kobe's appeal at all, why not at least let him play while under appeal, then suspend him for a later game if they still feel the original decision bears merit? What good does winning a retro-active appeal do for Kobe (or the Lakers, for that matter), outside of repaying the 161 grand that's essentially walking around money for him?
Maybe Jackson felt like giving Kobe an immediate appeal would break precedent to the point where it would appear like Bryant was "pushing them around." In reality, it would allow the league to come off that much better, but they're too tightly wound to notice the obvious. Thus, the quest to control leads to another poor decision, which is the story of Kobe's life when it comes to this particular scenario.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 31, 2007 at 10:59 AM
please New York needed a win a stu gave it to them..
Posted by: bob | January 31, 2007 at 11:00 AM
So they got their pound of flesh. The NBA should be happy. I think Stu Jackson has an axe to grind against the Lakers. I seem to recall awhile back during the three-peat days or was that the All-Star game held in L.A. in 2004. Does anybody remember that? Stu Jackson was in Staples to make a presentation and he was booed by the crowd. Chick admonished the crowd and told them to cheer for Stu. They obliged but only because of Chick. Nevertheless, Stu might have carried a grudge all these years.
Posted by: SamII | January 31, 2007 at 11:21 AM
Forget it. I think it was Russ Granik that got booed. :-(
Posted by: SamII | January 31, 2007 at 02:26 PM