WiZo, I hear what you're saying, but I don't think we have the depth to win it all, despite having Kobe; and I don't think Lamar is at that level yet.

I watched Moses Malone slug away for years in Houston, when he was, despite the hype when Magic and Bird came in, likely the single most dominant player in the league. 6 rebounding titles, three MVPs can kind of back that up. Still, he only managed to make the finals once, until he went to Philly and played with all-stars. That's the difference with depth. Fact is, unless we develop really quickly this year, we won't have the depth to hang with really good teams in a series.

The Clippers obviously don't have the kind of depth that '76er team did. They are solid though, and do have a couple of people who can take that game-winning shot for you. I also think they're in a better position to deal with injuries than we are. I mean, if Lamar or Kobe goes down, we're obviously screwed in the long-term, but losing any of our starters would be a serious problem. Heck, whatever Michael T says, losing Mihm hurt us in the playoffs last year. We just don't have the depth.

The only player who would really screw them if they lost him, would be Brand. They've already dealt with injuries to all of their other starters.

So yeah, I think they've got a better chance of winning than we do, period. This year, anyway.

AK:

It's actually a lot more fun when you are the one doing the ducking. And my sister does have a great personality.

I can just see AK and BK gleefully clapping their hands and chanting Bling! Bling! as the posts mount up. haha.

Loved Mom's "potted plant" reference. Maybe you should post a "Momisms" thread to go with the "Chickisms."

Tom

AK and Tom,

Is it a full moon tonight? Between you guys on the Lakersblog and BK and Mike T right now over on the Dodgersblog, I'm entertained as HELL!

GET 'EM!!

>_<

AK:

OK, we will settle for a digital copy of the thread. We know you're good for it.

Tom

Here's Nike's summary of Kobe's visit to Tokyo.

My objective this week is to have fun playing the game of basketball with the kids.” When asked why he changed his jersey number to 24, he responded with “24 is a celebration and appreciation of everyday. There are 24 Hours in a day, and I want to enjoy every minute, every moment.”

great pictures and more quotes here:
http://inside.nikebasketball.com/news/2006/09/14/kobe-asia-tour-tokyo-japan/#more-179

______________________________________________

On another topic, if the Clippers were not an L.A team, would they be consider better than the Lakers by Laker fans?

Like Dr.Buss said more or less 'I consider the Clippers just another NBA team, not another L.A team.'

If we all consider the Lakers such a great team in many ways, we don't need to feel angry/mad that the Clippers are a better team now than what they were before. That doesn't change the history or the status the Lakers have in the NBA and in L.A.

Oh and by the way, yeah the Lakers are a better-looking team than the Clippers (at least AK can't argue with that, I hope not. Haha)

AK:

It seems to me that if you believe the Clippers have a better roster, you should then be willing to trade the Lakers' roster for the Clippers'. Please explain to me why this is not true.

And if the reason you would not do the trade is Kobe Bryant, then aren't you really admitting that the Lakers roster is actually better overall thatn the Clippers solely because of Kobe?

Tom

Laker Tom,

Again, I've never really thought of it along those lines. But if that's the way you want to define things, I guess I would trade. If it's a question of trading for any roster I might pick ahead of the Lakers, then it technically makes sense, regardless of Kobe, if I ultimately think the other team will still have a better season. That just strikes me as logical.
Unless you're dead set positive the Lakers will win it all next season, wouldn't you? And if not, why?

But like I said, I don't think of it along those lines in the first place. I prefer to root for the team I have and there you have it.

AK

Peter:

You are wrong. Doug does have his own website but Jackie just won't let anybody go there. Be careful not to click on any of the links on the site or you might learn more than you want to about Jackiet and Doug.

Tom

Jon K,

You're right about Rebraca. He's not a franchise player or anything close, but he can help a team and flies under a lot of people's radars.

AK

LakerTom
Waiting for ur response bout the Phil triangle videos. Hope you have a chance to see him walk us through the offense. If u missed my post i put it at:
September 14, 2006 at 04:45 PM

Its on this thread. Waiting for ur response.

LakerTom, no offence, but you sound like a Boston Celtics fan I know. I mean, "some franchises just seem to have fate and karma on their side," sheesh. You either have the horses to make a run, or you don't. That gives you a shot. And no franchise wins all the time, not us, not the Celtics, not the Yankees, nobody. It seems to me you're implying that we'll win because we're the Lakers, and I really hope Mitch doesn't have that attitude, because it's not right. Didn't work for the last three years, doubt it'll work this year.

Although, if Mitch does have the same idea, that might explain a few things...

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't really see any comments on where the owners came into play in this conversation, other than Dr. Buss comments that the Clippers are just another LA team. True, but ...

The Laker's have winning history, and history, (Unless you are Boston and Danny Ainge is in charge) does repeat. Dr. Buss and family will always look for how to WIN. The guy that owns that other team in LA will find some way to loose the best that he has. Harsh comment, but you can't play for a looser and be a (consistent) winner. At some point, Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson convinced a bunch of support players that they could win championships. Don't be surprised if Kobe and Phil dial that message in on this current Laker bunch.

Go Laker's - Go Buss Family.

It's tough, but I would have to agree with the verdict. I also agree with the idea that the teams witll be separated by less than 5 in the win column.

The biggest factor is that while the Lakers are still developing their talent, the Clips' talent is more consistent and more experienced. Going on facts, the Lakers have alot of questions marks in their line-up, while the Clips do not. You know Kaman is gonna be solid. You know EB is gonna be a MAN. And you know Sam I Am is gonna bring his game AND let you know about. Their "role" players are also set, with an athletic freak like Maggette leading the group.

My only doubt with the Clips is that they have too many players which seem to be injury prone. Although I don't want it to happen, I have a very difficult time believing that the Clips can go the whole season without Sam I Am, Maggette, Livingston, Kaman, Ross, or a few other key guys missing some significant time. They have so much talent, but those guys ust seem so fragile. I realized last season that every time I watched a Clip game, it was a wonder every time down the floor that a Clipper didn't fall over with some injury.

You know, its funny. I've always been a die hard Laker fan. I remember 10-15 years ago, growing up, always rooting for the Clips too, because they were from L.A. too, but also out of some pity, and also because I knew they could never beat my Lakers. Not so easy rooting for them now... LOL.

Good for the Clips. L.A. is too good to have a perenial laughing stock. Hopfully they won't screw it up this time.

B.
Cali King

Since we're on the topic of the Clips...

I've often thought, and still think, that it would be a GREAT idea for the Clips to stay in the Western Conference, but move from L.A.

Why?

The Lakers, dispite what others may try to argue, are THEE face of the NBA. Every sport has the team everybody knows. There are the Yankees, the Cowboys/Raiders, and the Lakers. This isn't some homer idea. It's just a fact. So of all the places for the Clips to be, they are forever going to be in the Laker's shadow. In L.A. they will always be the other team. Nothing they do will ever be enough. They should go somewhere else and create their own legacy, not having to be compared to the greatest team in basketball everyday.

So where should they go?

There are plenty of cities. My bet would be Las Vegas. Believe it or not, Vegas is actually a real city. Its alot bigger than most people know, and growing fast. They are desperate for a real pro team. If the Clips moved there, they would be H U G E. They would be loved. They would be their own team, in their own city.

Sounds perfect to me.

B.
Cali King

LakerFan,
"At some point, Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson convinced a bunch of support players that they could win championships"

Those "support players" include 2 HOFs (Pippen and Rodman), two players who were near the top for their position during their years (Grant and Harper), the all-time top 3 point shooter, etc.

Did anybody happen to catch Ron Artest on Stephen Jackson's Quite Frankly?

The guy guranteed his Sac Queens would be in the top 2 best teams in the west!! He seems to regret it after Stephen asked him again cuz Stephen couldnt believe what he was hearing. It was hilarious to see his face cuz he was suprised Artest had said they would even go to the Finals. Wow Sonnybelfast you believe ur boy?

On another note Stephen also asked him about team USA and what he thought. He said if got to pick a team he would pick Iverson and Kobe (only 2 he mentioned)!!! He also said he was a bit upset because he didnt even get an invite to atleast try out. I agree having guys like Kobe and Artest there would definetly increase the teams defense. An Artest&Kobe combo would be a pretty good defensive combo.

While a HOF caliber player, Rodman is not in the HOF. That's a testament to the value of good judgement.

Lakers > Clippers, The LA Blogger guys are obviously trying to stir up a debate the only reason the Clippers had a better record then us was because we had to learn the triangle and we have experience right now.

LA BLogger dudes you disappointed me very much.

MY TAKE ON THE LA RIVALRY:

The Clippers will go down to the Lake Show for one reason everybody is overlooking. Sam turns 37 the first month of the season, and that's just getting too old to run with Nash, Parker, Terry etc and carry the team like he did last year. Look at the deterioration of Payton's skills as he turned 37 - and he was way better than Sam to begin with.

A 37-year old center can be the #2 man on a championship team (a la Kareem) but the demands for foot speed on a point guard are just too great. And while Livingston is a way better back up than most (including our PG's), he won't come close to providing what Cassell did last year. Couple that with Thomas "replacing" Radmonovich, and they have nowhere to go but down.

The Lakes on the other hand are getting better all the time as LO, Rad, and Kwame come into their own in their mid-twenties. So no way the Clips finish above us. And the gap will widen further in '07. Word.

Shady,

Do I believe my boy Testes?

Yes, as a Kings fan, I'd be crazy not to. In Sacramento, he's batting about 750 with his prognostications. He's even got me humming "the nasty north and the dirty south" and I'm spelling words like warrior different these days.

I've never seen anything like him, either end of the court. My jaw drops, and I go like "wow, this dude's on my team?". I know you can relate to the feeling.

Ron seems to really like it up here and I'm sure, given their parallels, that Bonzi's situation (even though Ron is the far superior player) has not been lost on him. So far, so good.

Testes raised the bar; set a new standard. All of our young studs now conduct daily pecker measuring contests. The Bibbinator is going to have to stay in front of his man. No wonder he dropped 20 lbs. Brad and Artest came into the league together and are buds, so expect Brad to be in shape and shine after being so poorly utilized on Team USA.

Yeah, we're excited too, and feel comfortable flying just below the radar where national expectations are concerned.

Let me put it another way:

If the Kings end up playing for the WC championship I'll be very pleasantly surprised, but not at all shocked. With our rising young studs and an otherwise very solid team, it is only a matter of time. What Ron says, goes.

Anybody knows what the stats were in the last 30 games last year for the us and the Clips? by how much did we beat them?
Baywood

Shady, you mean Steven A. Smith of "Quite Frankly"

McGarnagle,

Or perhaps the Clips lost to the Suns because the Suns were simply the better team. They were also a better team than the Lakers, for that matter. But since both the Lakers and Clips lost to the Suns, I don't see what the Clips' fate against Phoenix in the playoffs has to do with LAC vs. LAL.

I also don't see why you're making the Clips losing to the Suns sound like some badge of dishonor. They're a very good team.

AK

"You sound like a former point guard. Were you?"-LakerTom

Thanks for the post props. To answer your question, I was a SG/SF in high school. But I grew up with the greatest point guard of all time as my favorite player. It's kind of hard not to understand the importance of a true point guard when you grow up watching Magic.

Taliq,

You make good points about why to keep Smush. I disagree, but points taken.

Who was the point guard for the Bulls during the first 3 titles?

How important was the point guard position then?

You are thinking very closed minded when you only see that the point guard should be the primary person responsible for facilitating an offense. One of the greatest factors that made Mgic so special on the court was something that he actually had no control over....his height. In his prime, he was virtually unstoppable because he could see over the top of the defense like a tall quarterback.

However, not every team has the luxury of having a tall point guard. Phil chose a different approach in using the small forward with the Bulls as his primary facilitator. With this new set of Lakers he tried Lamar as the primary facilitator last season. However, in the playoffs it became more of a dual responsibility of both Kobe and Lamar. Not once was Smush or Sasha put in as the facilitators.

Why does it matter so much to you that Farmar be the facilitator? Shouldn't your concern be the overall strength of the offense? If it works best with Kobe or Lamar as the facilitator, shouldn't that be acceptable with you????

Interesting article Preetom. It somewhat answered my Corey Magette question. I think he's definitely gonna be traded this season.

By the way, does anyone know what Marc Stein is smoking? He ranks the Lakers 10th in the west in terms of off-season productivity... and puts the Warriors at 5 just for bringing in Don Nelson.

Dammit, McGarnagle. I was just about to post that article. Stop stealing my thunder. haha

AK

I think you can say the same about the Clippers. If Brand or Cassell for that matter get hurts. Let's not forget they were mostly the same team the year before and basically "improved" but did nothing for the most part...but with Cassell they went farther than they've ever gone before (I think).

In any case, why is it that when the playoffs came...everyone (imo) was more psyched up for the Lakers than they ever were for the Clippers...even when the Clippers advanced further. It's cause there's something about these lakers...case and point, they have a blog! LOL.

Hey guys I have a question as we look into the future and realize that some of next year's free agents may not be affordable or even want to come to us, how else could we improve this team and stay competitive with the west elite teams such as Dallas and Phoenix? I think it is time if not now or near the trade deadline to rekindle the Carlos Boozer trade. I say we trade Mihm, Cook, Mckie, Sasha or even Bynum, and next year's draft picks for him. I think his post scoring ability and presence will take us to the next level where Kobe will handle it from there and take us into the finals. Imagine this lineup"

Kwame Brown
Carlos Boozer
Lamar Odom
Kobe Byrant
smush parker or Farmar(in the near future)

Preetom:

But AK says that Kaman is already a topflight center so why would you trade Magette for another topflight center when Sterling won't even commit to paying the one he already has?

Maybe they have their eye on Chris Mihm to replace Kaman. He is definitely better looking. haha.

Tom

ex:

Only you could find a negative thread in a sentence that included the words West, Baylor, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Worthy, Kobe, and Shaq.

West and Baylor's only problem was that there was another very lucky franchise who had more leprechauns than us during that period. Of course, then came Len Bias, Rick Pitino, the death of the leprechauns, and the new curse of the bambino.

Really, ex, you don't think the Lakers have been a franchise of destiny?

Tom

JJ -Thanks for the point guard stuff, I don't know what I was thinking :)
Clippers lead guy, facilitator, point guard- I think that’s what he is, Sam I Am, is as good as the Clippers will be, if he can get them going like he has so many other teams, they are dangerous. If he is injured and battling old bones – it sure helps our cause.
Wow, Talent-wise I have to think they are better on paper and overall, including bench. Who stops Magette- Vlad? Walton?, or Brand-Vlad? LO? Kwame?, or Smush-Sasha? Smush? Shammond? Mobley getting hot is who's task- Kobe - good we got one! Yeah it takes 2 or 3 of them to stop K24 but man this team just added Thomas and no one stopped him- no one. I hate to think we are not capable and cant exceed our past years performance but as it stands, they were the better team and Vlad just isn't enough to make a huge difference, especially when they picked up the guy who ate us alive in remember, Tim Thomas-I truly dislike this guy. I think he would have been a good one-year pick-up though! The truth hurts and to think they have guys just like we do that should or could explode like Magette (now healthy), Livingston (Scotty Pippen clone, he is long, watch out) and Singleton or Kaman (should be a lot better this year), damn they have some huge upside if this team gels and plays tougher D along with some renewed faith in their overall confidence.

We do have the Laker mystique but c'mon, reality check is they are better and should do better than us, or something has gone wrong for them. A lot of if's.

I ain't hopin' or hatin', that’s just how it looks and I sure hope by the end of the season barring injury to both teams, we pass them by and put 'em back in the cellar. Dunleavy is no joke he can get a lot out of these guys.

We got Kobe, the only player that can dominate a game almost single handedly. The other 4 guys are nowhere near their potential and have no stats to prove they will be making All-Star teams soon.
Mitch Kupchak better hope Vlad and Mo are ready to blow up and LO needs to wake up and take charge. Too much talent in him alone to think he hasn't found a way to burn his opponent every game.

LakerTom - jeez you are always in the s*** around here! I was wrong, nahhh - I am too old and stubborn to be wrong hahhahaha.
Those videos were cool, Shady man. The books help anyone who thinks he wants to coach, especially any of Woodens stuff. Tex, Red, Bobby etc…
- this blog is full of characters. Can't stay away too long or it blows right by ya!

Hmmm... point guards, quarterbacks, catchers - I guess we all just follow the flow and hope it turns out OK. NOT!!! these players are the glue and the motivating force behind every game played in each of their sports, I beleive the most important positions in each sport. Just my opinion.

LakerTom,

playing high school basketball makes you about as knowledgeable as a player in high school.

You all are so hung up on this point guard thing and continue to miss the point itself (pun intended). Since my orignial post involving the Lakers going into the new season, I have continued to express that my views are based on the realistic likelihood of their outcome. Phil Jackson is probably the most consistent coaches in the NBA to a fault. Regardless of what any of you or myself would like to see or hope/believe will happen, Phil will do the same thing he has always done. Is it a coincidence that he continues to bring back the same old group of people in each new situation in order to help him be successful? He doesn't change....which makes it rather easy to determine what his next move will be.

Only 1 time, in my many years of watching Phil have I ever seen him do something NEW. That was when he decided to have Scottie Pippen guard Magic Johnson. That was new because it therefore shifted who both MJ and Paxson would guard. Other than that, he has always made the same type of moves every year.

That being said, whether or not any of you agree, Kobe Bryant will most likely be the facilitator of the Triangle Offense at the start of the season. Not only does he know it the best (strong advantage), not only has he filled that role successfully in the past (to the sound of 3 titles), if he didn't they would be at a loss to have someone else do it. I know you and others still see farmar as the point guard of the future. He may be, but the future is not opening night. Furthermore, has Phil EVER given the positional point guard the responsibility for running the offense? What makes you think that he is going to start now? Farmar is no more of a point guard right now, than BJ Armstrong was. BJ was never the facilitator.

This whole thing about Magic, Steve Nash or anybody else is just dilluting the subject and discussion. The bottomline is.....what is the likely opening night lineup and rotation for the team? That's the only question needing to be discussed at this point. And I say it will be the same group I have stated several times since the new acquisitions....Smush, Kobe, Vlade, Lamar and Kwame. Who will be the major contributors off the bench...the next 5...Shammond, Maurice, Luke, Brian, and Chris. The last 2 spots will either go to Andrew and Jordan or Andrew and Sasha. That's your 12 man roster nicely and simply put together in the same frame as every Phil Jackson lineup....a large presence of experience and veteran presence with a reasonable dose of youth and athleticism.

AK -

The question is what experience is more valuable learning the triangle or learning Dunleavys system? the experience we're gonna have is gonna be better. the Clippers are good when you look at them on Paper but have you asked yourself that they have always looked good on paper???? the bottom line is the Lakers are better because there experience will turn out to be more valuable.

AK -

If thats the case, then why wasn't Sam Cassell the MVP? but Mr. Overrated Stats guy Elton Brand? i guess to the NBA Elton Brand was the reason they were winning right? and i agree about the leader-ship Cassell bought... but the point is.

we had to learn the triangle almost all year. we could've win 50 games if we were smarter down the stretch but those are what ifs but the reality is its gonna come down to the experience and which team brings out the most valuable experience there is no doubt in my mind it's the Lakers. the Clippers on another hand will be good there is no doubt they will make the playoffs but being better then the Lakers is not something i see happening.

Shady:

Thanks for the youtube links. They were great. It was fun hearing Phil and Tex talk about the Triangle. It's pretty much as I understood the offense and very similar to Tex's book, although some of the terminology is different.

The one thing that I don't think the youtube clips made clear is that each player's very first option in the Triangle is actually to take the ball to the hoop and score, which is why transition and penetration options actually reduce by up 40% the actual number of times that the Lakers run the Triangle.

What everyone forgets is that the point guard or 1 is the guy who brings the ball up and decides how the offense is going to be initiated. If we have a numbers advantage coming up court, the 1 will push the fast break opportunity. If not, the 1 will initiate the offense by passing to one of the other four players depending on the defenses. The decision as to whom to pass the ball will often determine how successful the play will be and how much time we have to run it.

If you watch the Lakers last year, neither Smush or Sasha really did a great job initiating the offense. In fact, most of the time they just passed the ball off to the other guard, usually Kobe, via what Phil refers to as the “lag” pass and then ran to the corner to create a triangle. This is really just passing the initiator job to Kobe and became totally predictable, instead of really looking over the entire floor and getting the desired entry pass to the wing or the center, which would give the offense several valuable additional seconds in which to try to score.

And when Kobe was playing the 3 and coming up to the pinch post instead of being the lag guard, it was very common for Smush and Sasha to have problems getting the ball to Kobe even though he would have position against Bowen or Raja. A key role in getting the offense going is to get the ball not only to the right guy but also at the right time and at the right angle. This was also true of many of the entry passes to the center, who is theoretically a primary option in the Triangle.

I understand the point that Phil makes about a 4 beat and not holding the ball for more than 1 or 2 seconds or you slow down the offense. What we are talking about here is just basic ball movement rules. That doesn’t play against having a skilled point guard with great passing skills and floor vision, it actually makes those attributes even more important because the point guard who initiates the offense has only a couple of seconds to decide which of the four other players, all of whom are all in motion at that point, should get the ball. Choosing the right guy to initiate the offense is usually critical to the play working.

Smush and Sasha too often just made the simple, easy, and predictable pass to start the offense, often just a lag pass, because they really aren’t point guards. In fact, their initiator skills are not even as good as those of Kobe, Lamar, or Luke. A “true” point guard will be able to see the entire floor and not only get the ball to the player who represents the best option for the offense but also will get it to him when and where he can really do something with it. He wouldn’t force a pass to Kwame in a spot where Kwame most likely can’t handle it, when Lamar might be a better option. And he won’t leave Kobe begging for the ball with Bowen or Raja draped all over him and the offense totally stalled because he doesn’t have the right angle. Just my opinion, of course, but after watching the youtube videos, it seems to me that having a true point guard is an even more important need in initiating the offense and getting the best shot possible before the clock expires.

Tom

Lakeman,

I don't really care who the Clips MVP is. If you think it's actually Cassell, fine. If I wanna say it's "Mr. Overrated Stats Guy" Brand (according to you), fine. If someone thinks it's Boniface N'Dong, fine. Everyone defines "MVP" totally differently and the concept itself is in no way relevant when it comes to evaluating which team will finish better next season.

Look, I hope I'm wrong. Nothing will make me happier. I'm just telling you what I think will happen, not what I want to happen.

AK

Lakeman,

I don't want to give my projected rankings because we haven't finished "Know thy Enemy" yet. Answering now would theoretically give a preview to those writeups.

AK

AK, no problem but can you give us a hint were Lakers will be projected to be? ;)

AK can you tell, us when the projected standing line-up's will come out? or is it gonna be a secret just so people can keep checking back? :)

You wouldn't tell us :)

...post cut off...

AK

Just kidding!..LOL

>_<

AK,

Thats cool! Those guys kill me. Cheap Seats is a funny ass show! The '78 Minn. lumberJack copmetition is my favorite one. Two of the three were from the same little town in Oregon and the Sklar Bros let them have it. I was seriously crying I was laughing so hard!!

>_<

ex:

The San Francisco Giants? There just a watered down version of the Chicago Cubs and Atlanta Braves. Yes, they're teams of destiny. Destined to lose. I am talking about the teams of destiny that are destined to win. You know, the Lakers, Yankees, 49ers - teams with karma and the heritage to prove it. Don't come back to me with losers like the Giants.

tom

JJ - uh, yeah you are right again.
Clips are always going to be cellar dwellars to me, because we spanked them so hard for so long. It reminds me of when the Williams sisters were on top in tennis- about 2-3 years ago. About the same time it has been since the Lakers were. Yeap, Thats when the Clips were horrible too and we were great, nothing less than the finals would do.
The proof is in the way things unfold, I am burnt on speculating and dying for some great NBA action. The YOUTUBE videos were great and further prove some of the benefits of having a smart point/initiator of the offense. If anyone on the Lakers ever interprets the Triangle as well as LakerTom and someone else here, this team could truly be 5-10 games better, just due to the confidence it will give them that they can be the facilitator at almost any given time, Kobe is into this team and he seems to want to go out on a limb for them so I hope his enthusiasm can be an integral part of our success. We need every break we can get this year, same as any other year. But more so this year because as I said earlier nothing less than the Finals is good enough, two years away is too long. I am banking on parity of the league to keep the competition fairly close. I am scared Amare will be as good as he was and the Suns will be way above the rest of the League. Its a waiting game now, wait and see.

sonny:

The Dodgers are a joke, just like all of the pretenders in the National (read minor) league. Saying that they should be included in a discussion of dynasties is ridiculous, especially considering that they have only won World Series in their entire history and have never won back to back rings. The Yankees on the other hand have won 26 World Series and currently have the best record in baseball.

Tom