Thank You RichDaDCLakerFan...
... Because we could use a break from debating Smush vs. Farmar, Pinnock vs. "The System," and "KG Joining the Lakers" vs. "Ain't Gonna Happen." And your comment presents a pretty cool topic of discussion.
"Of all of the role players we have had over the years, do you think there are some role players worthy of having their jersey retired? The first one that comes to mind who should be considered is Michael Cooper. He was on all 5 Showtime Laker championship teams, defensive player of the year 86-87, and played his entire career with the team. Any thoughts?"
Interesting question, indeed.
I remember when Robert Horry was en route to winning his sixth ring with San Antonio (and hitting his typical array of clutch shots to make it happen), it spurred (sorry!) a debate between BK and I that lasted roughly a week. The subject? Should role players be allowed in the Hall of Fame? I won't subject y'all to a complete rehash of our yapping. You good people certainly don't deserve that. But in a nutshell, even though there would be inherent problems (how to truly judge one role guy against the next, since much of what they do isn't stat heavy), I liked the idea simply because rewarding standout guys of that nature appealed to me, imperfections be damned. BK was against it because he hates Robert Horry. Or more accurately, because aside from issues already presented, guys who simply weren't good enough to be HOF players — as opposed to sacrificing stats for team — could end up enshrined (which may diminish the point of the Hall itself) and someone like Horry may have an unfair advantage due to the teams he played with. In the end, nothing was decided for sure (other than BK and I having way too much time on our hands), but it was a lively discussion. And it sort of reminds me of Rich's question. If the HOF is indeed too much, even for the best of role players, perhaps the team should be doing something on their behalf.
As far as literally retiring the numbers, put aside the "who's to say blah blah blah is better than blah blah blah?" arguments. The biggest problem I see is eventually running out of numbers for current players. Seriously. Say there are one or two outstanding role players every few seasons (and with the Lakers' stellar track record in this regard, that could be guesstimating on the low side). If each of those guys' numbers go the way of the Logo, Cap or Goodrich (not to mention inevitable candidates like Kobe and Shaq), we're eventually gonna see Lakers with decimal pointed digits, letters or shapes under the names on their jerseys. They'll even burn through the weirdo numbers like 73 and 91 that only the Rodmans and Artests of the world wear. Therefore, a formal retirement may require the kabash on a purely practical level.
What I do think could work and would definitely be cool, though, is some item next to the retired jerseys that lists all the exceptional role players. It could be an oversized jersey, a plaque, whatever. Those invaluable guys get their due and a suitable assortment of numbers remain open for use.
Would you get behind this? Or do you think while role players should be appreciated, there are certain honors reserved for stars and stars only?
—AK
Shouldn't let them in the hall, or have their jersey's retired.
It's good enough being a professional athlete, being adored by so many people, and if lucky winning championships.
You just can't let anybody into the HOF or retire their numbers.
Posted by: SamIAm | August 29, 2006 at 02:46 PM
Very cool question.
I for one do NOT think role players should have their jerseys retired, nor do I think they should be in the Hall of Fame. First off, I'd like to see the Hall of Fame be made harder to get into. I know, I know, player B will say his stats were similar to player A and player A is in, why isn't he, but tough sh*t. I think if you make it to the Hall you should be the dominant player at your position during your era.
As for the jersey being retired, again, like a muted version of the Hall, for teams only. I like the idea of a plaque or something to commemorate their contribution, but let's not get things twisted, if you get your number retired it's because you were the man on this team for quite awhile and you were the engine that moved the machine.
If it had to happen, I would definitely go with Coop. When I think of the Celts-Lakers battles in the 80's I think of the Coop versus Bird match-up as much as the Magic-Bird match-up. High socks versus the blonde fro. Skinny dude versus Cheesy porn stache.
As for Robery Horry, yeah he's been clutch, but if he misses those shots he doesn't get ripped for the loss, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, etc. do. He's in a win-win situation. He makes it, he's Big Shot Bob, he misses, Kobe was a ballhog and it shouldn't have been that close. That's why Kobe's 8/24 will be retired and Horry gets just the coolest nickname ever. Whoever carries the weight of the team on their shoulders gets immortalized.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 29, 2006 at 02:46 PM
...sort of like a "ring of fame" you might find on football stadiums?
whould SeeDoo Ceballos make the cut?
-E
Posted by: E Homp | August 29, 2006 at 02:48 PM
The Lakers should reserve a part of the stadium to honour ALL their players, and have a special part for their special players.
Yes the superstar numbers get retired but dammittohellman, where would we have been without the Bob Mcdoo's. Silk Wilke's, Robert Horry, Norm Nixon, Byron Scott, Mychael Thompson, et al?
Since I have never been to Staples, you all would have to tell who all have had their numbers retired.
To put your question another way AK, and provide my answer perhaps: Is James Worthy's number among the rafters?
Posted by: Glenn | August 29, 2006 at 02:50 PM
It would be a disgrace if A.C. Green didn't join that list.
A.C. epitomizes what it means to be a sports professional. I think his maturity/ professionalism really makes him "the good guy in la-la land". And I know, good guys finish last. But lets make an exception for a good man like A.C..
Join the A.C. bandwagon!
How about Sam Bowie? hehe
Posted by: joby | August 29, 2006 at 02:54 PM
How about a Lakers "Role of Honor" Banner. Like the one they have for the Minn Lakers HOFers. The first Lakers I would put on there would be:
Jamal Wilkes
Norm Nixon
Mike Cooper
Byron Scott
A.C. Green
Robert Horry
Brian Shaw
Honorable Mentions would be:
Kurt Rambis
Bob McAdoo
Mychael Thompson
Rick Fox
Ron Harper (barely, only 2 yrs. with Lakers)
I only go as far back as the late 70's. Don't know of any great role players prior to that although i'm sure there are some. None from the 90's though, they were horid years.
dymandave
Posted by: dymandave | August 29, 2006 at 02:54 PM
Glenn,
"Big Game James" is indeed enshrined. Dude is also one of the "50 Greatest Players."
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 29, 2006 at 02:57 PM
Thanks AK. I joined the Lakers with Magic, absolutely positively idolized Kareem but I really liked James Worthy who was probably the most exciting player in the L his second year. The guy was so good they had to literally break his leg to stop him.
Norm Nixon, Bob Mcadoo, AC Green, Kurt Rambis, Mychael Thompson, Byron Scott, Derek Fisher, Big Shot Rob, even Nick the Quick among a slew of others deserve some sort of recognition in a Lakers Hall of Fame.
Posted by: Glenn | August 29, 2006 at 03:09 PM
I really like the Ring of Honor idea, as long as the captain of the Kobe-Shaq Lakers, Rick Fox, is on the list. Fox was a key contributor in a number of different roles for the Lakers during his stint with the team, and he was perhaps the only true leader on the team in that eight year stretch. The Lakers honored him last season (I think they gave him a framed jersey, but I'm not sure) and it would be great to see them have a similar ceremony with Fox, Cooper, Byron Scott, Horry, and others.
Posted by: Mike | August 29, 2006 at 03:43 PM
I agree with Andrew Z 100%. I too think HOF should be made HARDER to get into, not easier. I would like it to be so that I can look back on any player, and having never seen the guy play, just KNOW he was a dominant great player of his time and not just a guy who accumulated a lot of stats on mediocre teams.
Coop is a great pick. Same with Horry. It'd be nice to see Rambis get some recognition for his self-sacrificing hard nose play. I always wonder what Byron Scott's career wouldve been like had he been on a bad team. And gotta throw out my main man Nicky V's name out there....for basically carrying us through some dark years.
Posted by: wiZo | August 29, 2006 at 03:45 PM
John Havlicek was a role player for most of his career. (Although a starter the last 5 or 6.)
Many of the retired Celts were role players.
Coop deserves a retired number. None of the other Lakers mentioned do.
To qualify you have to be acknowledged as a star in the league, and as one who would be a star anywhere else. Coop would have been all defensive no matter where he played, and his offensive numbers would have been slightly higher.
Nixon was not a star with Clippers, Rambis was not a star with Hornets, Thompson with San Antonio, etc. Van Exel was traded by the Logo. (nuff' said.)
From the 60's maybe Dick "Fall Back Baby!" Barnett would qualify.
No one from the 70's comes to mind. 80's is Coop. 90's--nope.
No one from the 'oo's, even tho' I think the case can be made that Horry should be in HOF for collecting 6 rings with 3 different teams. (Certainly off the bench in All Nba Playoff Team.)
Posted by: lone star laker fan | August 29, 2006 at 03:45 PM
Oh, Im not saying any of the players I mentioned should be HOF or have their jerseys retired. Just giving them some props.
But, btw, Jerry West was VERY bitter about having to trade Nick Van Exel.
Posted by: wiZo | August 29, 2006 at 04:16 PM
First you need to define "role player". Someone who sacrifices their game for the good of the team? Someone who excels in certain aspects fo the game but is not a great all-around player (i.e Dennis Rodman, Ben Wallace)? Or someone who realizes their limitations and plays within themselves? A non-starter who still makes major contributions? (i.e. John Havlicek, Detlef Schrempf).
Do bad teams ever have role players?
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 29, 2006 at 04:19 PM
exhelodrvr,
Darius Miles was a role player for the horrible Trailblazers last year. He played the role of malcontent and team cancer.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 29, 2006 at 04:27 PM
These guys do deserve credit. Personally, however, I've always felt that they allow too many players into the HOF. I always feel that this should only be reserved for the absolute best of the best, such as Magic, Michael, Kareem, etc. Of course you can't go back and take guys out, but everytime there's a new "class" inducted, I feel the value of the Hall drop.
In short, role players: Not allowed in the HOF. But I do like the idea of each team honoring, in some way, their own local legends.
B.
Thee Cali King
Posted by: Cali King | August 29, 2006 at 04:35 PM
I like the ring of honor idea. We could put the most important players names in the rafters, just with no #s. Horry, Fox, and Nick the Quick definitely deserve to be apart of that ROH.
Lone star Laker fan,
We would have been even worse in the 90's without Nick. His talent alone won us more games than we should have won.
Exhelodrvr,
Dennis Rodman IS (or at least should be) a Hall of famer. He was the best rebounder, and one of the best defenders in the league for years.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 29, 2006 at 04:47 PM
As far as the HOF goes, I don't think it should be harder to get into. I could be wrong, but I can't think of any players off the top of my head, that are in that don't belong. I don't think just anybody should be thrown in, but I DO think Horry should at least be considered.
He was one of the main players for at least two teams (Houston is debateable) who won championships, and we all know where we would have been without him. Can you imagine how hard Sonnybelfast would be to deal with if the Kings had beaten us? LOL, I don't know about y'all but I think he should get in the HOF just for CRUSHING the Kings dreams hahaha.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 29, 2006 at 04:55 PM
I'm not opposed to "role players" having their jersey's retired. However, I also think that the screening process she would be very strict.
In other words I do agree with a player such as Michael Cooper having his jersey retired because he was a consumate professional and spend most, if not all of his career, as a Laker. But I would be against someone like Robert Horry, ONLY because he won other rings with other teams so its kind of on the unfair tip.
I don't know, after re-reading my post I can't even make sense of what Im saying myself! I guess I'm just torn between Role players and Stars because you need BOTH to win when it all comes down to it. So it's unfair to give it to one but not the other. Man these blogs are becoming boring!! Season please start already, we're all going crazy here!
Posted by: blaze1bx | August 29, 2006 at 05:16 PM
Purple and Gold:
We still have not heard from you after the start of the war in Lebanon. Are you OK? we all hope so here.
Posted by: Baywood | August 29, 2006 at 05:17 PM
Hey Blog,
Anybody knows if nba.com will have FLEA in their blog journal thing again this year!? He's so cool and a die hard Laker fan. Each and everytime I read his blog/journal I was so entertained. He is hilarious!
Food for thought, YOU do the dishes.....
Posted by: blaze1bx | August 29, 2006 at 05:23 PM
I think certain special role players should be allowed into the HOF. The HOF shouldn't be limited to how you've engrossed alot of points rebounds and/or assists or whatever else in a game. I mean i look back to many of the HOF names and though i'm sure many played good defense, offense seems to be the focal point usually of what makes a star or superstar. Seems what almost makes a great player "great" is his stat line. How bout a defensive stat line? Steals, Blocks, opponent field goal % or ppg vs the player in question. I love Magic Johnson to death and he's an instant HOFer because of his statline yet he wasn't much of a defender. If not for the Michael Coopers of the world who play that shut down defense, can you imagine now many championships guys like the Magic Johnsons and Kareem's of the world might not have won?
As far as retiring jerseys go... same goes for that in regards to role players. The 80's Lakers saw Magic and Kareem running the show. If only superstars should have their jerseys retired... i don't think Worthy should have had his jersey retired. He was more that super role player during those times. Something that fits guys like Rick Fox, Robert Horry, AC Green and Michael Cooper. Guys that in their own right were stars that still shined on their teams and probably could have been something a little more on any other team. These guys are the guys who made their superstars look good. Even if they don't retire their numbers, there should be a jersey or something with the list of names. If ya look to the Staples Center wall you'll see a mic with Chick Hearn's name on it. Something like that for the special role players at least. Bench warmer role players should be the ones happy they are getting what they got... but these super role players deserve it.
As far as Nick Van Exel... while I give props to him as far as what he did with the early/mid 90's Lakers... his actions such as shoving a referee and other questionable conduct are hindering in any case. Lets not forget though that while Nick was good, there was a certain 7' Serbian Center on our team by the name of Vlade Divac who wasn't all too bad himself. He wasn't a superstar but he was still one of the better legit centers in the league and did his own share of scoring as well as dishin the rock.
Posted by: Da 1 Rejekt | August 29, 2006 at 05:38 PM
Baywood,
Yeah, I only heard Purple & Gold one time when we were talking about the Laker oldtimers. Now that the war is over, I hope the family of P & G is OK.
For the role players, I will go for Jamaal Wilkes and Robert Horry. They really give meaning to the importance of role players.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | August 29, 2006 at 05:51 PM
Weave-man
Like as much as you that idea of ROH, but I disagree on Nick. Sure, he helped our team during the 90's, but do we have to put his name with Horry, Fox, and all the good players from the 80's (and God that 80's list could be long) ? In fact, I'm not so sure, but while the above players are definitely on this list, we can't put him on this list like that. Maybe cuz he didn't win a ring.
For the question, I don't think role players should be allowed. Sure, Bob won us numerous games, but like somebody in that thread said, he doesn't carry the team on his shoulders. Not taking anything away from him, I love that guy, but if he did make some shots in the last few seconds of close games, who kept those games closed ? 'nuff said.
So, HOF for Horry, Fox and others ? Not in their dreams. Number retired ? At least for Horry & Fox. But I seriously love the idea of a "Lakers Hall of Fame". Seriously, I don't know exactly how many basketball gods played for us, but that list must be longer than the Celtics'.
Anyway, that problem doesn't apply for Michael Cooper. I don't know why he's not in this HOF. I just don't get it. If I ran a team and had to choose between him and Dumars, I'd make my choice in approximatively 3.2 seconds. Don't you think there's a problem when Cooper is not an HOFer, but Drazen Petrovic is ?
Saga
Posted by: Saga | August 29, 2006 at 06:03 PM
Weave-Man,
I agree with you on Rodman; my point about him was that he only did certain things, he did not have a complete game. Would you consider Rodman a "Role player"?
Most "role players" don't have a choice about it; they are players with limited skills who fit in with a team because that team has other players who compensate in the area that the role player is lacking in. I can only think of a handful of players who accepted a lesser role than what they were capable of for the good of the team. David Robinson (towards the end of his career) comes to mind. You could make a case for Michael Cooper, who could have started for most teams.
I would not call Jamaal Wilkes a role player; he was an all-around player who was an all-star on several occasions.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 29, 2006 at 06:08 PM
Andrew Z,
"Darius Miles was a role player for the horrible Trailblazers last year. He played the role of malcontent and team cancer."
Exactly why he would be such a great fit for the Lakers! They don't have anyone in that role on the team yet.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 29, 2006 at 06:10 PM
I was pretty irritated when Worthy didn't make the first Dream Team. I felt that he was underrated.
Posted by: Marcus | August 29, 2006 at 06:22 PM
I don't think a team needs to do anything special or more to honor its role players. All a role player needs to do to be honored is attend a game. The cheers, applause and standing ovations that fill Staples Center whenever the big screen shows Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Michael Cooper or any of our favorite Lakers role players at the game is deafening. They definitely feel the love from the fans and that should be worth more than any plaque, banner or other honor that the Lakers organization can give them.
Posted by: Sandibe | August 29, 2006 at 06:24 PM
I've got to agree with Andrew Z it'd be great sentimentally to see a guy like Big Shot Bob in the Hall of Fame, but logically it doesn't make sense at all. If we start letting role players in what's to keep us from voting in a guy like Ron Harper who has 5 rings or a Steve Kerr who has 4 rings and made the game winner in the 97 finals?
I think a circle of honor is the best thing. You're acknowledging them and not overrating them.
Posted by: Xodus | August 29, 2006 at 06:29 PM
Cooooop!
Sorry just had to get that out lol.
I think that the laker family is just so vast and full of great athletes that it would simply be too hard. However I have to say, in my opinion it needs to remain what it is...franchise players (for the most part) cause in all honesty they really are the people that put the organization in their shoulders.
Posted by: Faith | August 29, 2006 at 06:32 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for those who were asking about the retired numbers at Staples, this is what I remember off top (minus the Minneapolis banner):
In order (Roland let me know if I'm right):
Baylor
West
Chamberlain
Kareem
Magic
Goodrich
Worthy
Chick (with the Mike)
But as I mentioned before, of all of the role players that have played for the Lakers in the last 30 years, you definitely have to give the nod to Coop as top choice, followed by Wilkes, Rambis, and Fox.
Posted by: RichDaDCLakerFan | August 29, 2006 at 06:47 PM
This was a very interesting question posed by BK/AK.
I think without a doubt Rob Horry is a HOF'er. If you look at the precedence, people with individual achievements like Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing do not deserve to be in the HOF more, because they are missing jewlery on there fingers. Truth is, Robert Horry has the most championships of any current player, and at six it is hard to deny him some props. Esp with the big shots he has hit throughout his tenure.
The real question is if Coop or some like B-wallace should be included in the hall/number retierment? Fact is that team/individual defense is merely glossed over, in way of points. I am curious to hear if D-Rodman is a hall of fame worthy as well. As for many of the rest, someone else said it best, you can't let everyone get into the HOF or get a jersey retiered..it is simply a priviledge to put on the uniform..especially the purple and gold.
That being said, something are under valued in todays basketball game.winning has followed Horry everywhere he has gone, which makes you think at some point it has to be him as well.
Hitting big shots for the Spurs Game 7 against the Pistons...Big shots against the Kings and Spurs...And with Houston he can be considered the inspiration for the team's heart of a champion mentality.
Love the Debate tho..great subject.
Posted by: Niketh Kannan | August 29, 2006 at 06:47 PM
they should make a second tier to the hall of fame. for great players, who were never superstars (or even all stars). there should be a hall for the best role players of all time. and no they don't get their number retired, unless they truly deserve it.
Posted by: scott | August 29, 2006 at 07:35 PM
I like the idea of a very special recognition for role players. They deserve it and then some.
But retiring their number and HOF may be diluting what is to be accomplished.
Baywood
Posted by: Baywood | August 29, 2006 at 08:18 PM
Da 1 Rejekt,
I see what you're saying about Nick's actions, but what a lot of people forget is that he didn't intentionally push that ref. If you watch the film of what happened you see that he was pulling his arm free of a teammate(or coach, I can't remember exactly) and his momentum pushed him into the ref.
Now, was it right for him to be trying to get into the refs face in the first place? No, but how many times do we see players, and coaches do that in a game?
I think at the end of Nick's career he will be remembered as a great clutch player who made some mistakes. I just wish that he, and Jerry West could have found someway to fix their relationship so he could still be a Laker, or at least be on better terms with the organization.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 29, 2006 at 08:22 PM
HOF is not for everybody and it shouldnt be. We could start this whole "ring of honor" thing which doesnt sound bad or an Honorable Mention Hall of Fame for these role players. It would be for those who had a good NBA career but never superstars. I wouldnt mind having the jerseys of guys like:Jamal Wilkes
Norm Nixon
Mike Cooper
Byron Scott
A.C. Green
Robert Horry
Brian Shaw
but not retired numbers just a Laker jersey with their name surrouning the retired jerseys. You know like having Rick Fox,Robert Horry and D-Fish surrounding Kobe's jersey. Or somethign along those lines. Even a plaque would be sufficient.
Posted by: Shady | August 29, 2006 at 08:23 PM
Lets see - If the Lakers win the title in a year or two based on #24 and LO leading the way, whose jersey do we retire as a role player?
Kwame or Mihm?
Smush or Farmar?
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
See AK, you can't get away from it...
Posted by: Jay Jay | August 29, 2006 at 08:33 PM
Edwin:
You raised a very interesting point about the Lakers Blog being a goldmine. After all, we know the LA Times is not a charitable organization. I wonder how much actual advertising revenue the LA Times is getting for all of the hits the blog is attracting. Web advertising is definitely directly tied to hits and more hits definitely mean more money.
In fact, maybe my last "joking" post about AK and BK being paid by the number of posts generated represents the "real" truth about the K-Bros and the Lakers Blog. It really makes sense. That is why AK always disagrees with my "optimistic" posts. He knows that will drive me crazy and make me post like a maniac. He and BK (and their agent or agents) are probably laughing all the way to the bank. This is almost funny as Nick shouting “Cancun” in the huddle. I can just see AK and BK clapping their hands in glee and shouting “Bling, Bling” at their computers every time that we post.
Taking this post to its next logical step, are you familiar with the use of “Props” in casinos? Props are players who are hired by the casinos to sit in poker games to make sure there are enough players and to add interest. Props work regular 8 hour shifts for which they receive payment from the casino but actually play with their own bankroll. It is entirely possible that I may be a “Prop” hired by the K-Brothers to toss out outlandish predictions and unrealistic assessments of the Lakers in order to generate more posts, which will generate more advertising dollars, which will generate more K-Bros income. But then, I wonder which other posters might also be K-Bros props. There is this guy Edwin, who always has something to say about everything…
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 08:44 PM
***Laker Basketball Hall of Famers***
This is actually pretty funny. I googled for “Laker HOF players” and “Laker Hall of Fame players” and the only link that made sense was by Beverly Hills Rent-a-Car:
http://www.bhrentacar.com/la/los-angeles-lakers.html
Here is their list of Laker Players and Coaches who have been inducted into the Hall of Fame. I was actually surprised when I read this list and saw that Connie Hawkins was included. I had actually totally forgotten about Connie. And, of course, several of these guys also wore other jerseys. In fact, I think that Elgin, Jerry, and Magic were the only “pure” Lakers.
***************************************************
Players:
1 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar- Inducted as a player in 1995.
----Played with the Lakers 1975-89.
2 - Elgin Baylor - As a player in 1976.
-----Played with the Lakers 1960-71.
3 - Wilt Chamberlain - As a player in 1978.
-----Played with the Lakers 1968-73.
4 - Gail Goodrich - As a player in 1996.
-----Played with the Lakers 1965-68 and 1970-76.
5 - Connie Hawkins - As a player in 1992.
-----Played with the Lakers 1973-75.
6 - Jerry West - As a player in 1979.
-----Played with the Lakers 1960-74.
7 - Earvin "Magic" Johnson - As a player in 2002
-----Played with the Lakers 1979-91 and 1995-96.
***************************************************
Again, I was surprised to see that Jerry West had also made the HOF as a coach, even though he never won a title and quit, I believe, because he could not stand the pressure. And, Bill Sharman, of course, was originally a hated Celtic.
***************************************************
Coaches:
1 - Bill Sharman - Inducted as a coach in 1975.
-----Coached the Lakers 1971-76.
2 - Jerry West - Inducted as a coach in 1979.
-----Coached the Lakers 1976-79.
***************************************************
The Minneapolis Lakers have 7 players and 3 coaches inducted, with George Mikan being inducted as both a player and as a coach.
***************************************************
Some other interesting tidbits from the site were:
***************************************************
Players who have taken the NBA MVP award as L.A Lakers.
1999-00: Shaquille O'Neal
1989-90, 1988-1989 and 1986-1987: Magic Johnson
1979-80, 1976-77 and 1975-1976: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (3 times for Milwaukee)
Laker Coaches have taken Coach of the Year award two years.
1994-95: Del Harris
1989-90: Pat Riley
I was again astonished that Del Harris won COY twice.
***************************************************
And finally, I didn’t know that Mitch Kupchak was actually the President of the Los Angeles Lakers.
***************************************************
Current Management
Here is a look at the people who currently manage the Lakers.
Lakers Owner: Jerry Buss
President/General Manager: Mitch Kupchak
Head Coach: Phil Jackson
Wow. Is this info correct? I couldn’t find an easy duplicate of the information but some of it seems suspect.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 09:16 PM
When Kobe retires his number into the lakers hall of fame what number will he retire #8 or #24? Also will the lakers retire shaq's number 34 since he has been with the lakers the longest and had the most sucess or are the strings cut between shaq and jerry bus? Just a few random questions/thoughts from my mind.
-Coffeyville Kansas
Posted by: Aaron Patrzykont | August 29, 2006 at 09:18 PM
*****Lakers Retired Numbers*****
This came from the Lakers Web Site. It was such fun reading that I decided to post the entire thing. Maybe the K-Bros get paid by the word rather than the post. haha. Anyway, Laker fans will enjoy reliving these 7 great Laker players. For sure #8/24 will be added when he retires. A very elite club indeed! A very storied franchise indeed!
44 Jerry West
Retired on November 19, 1983 in honor of Jerry West whose career scoring average (27.0) ranks fourth all-time in NBA history ... playoff scoring average (29.1) ranks second all-time in NBA annals, trailing only Michael Jordan ... Lakers' all-time leading scorer (25,192) ... led the Lakers in scoring seven different seasons, highlighted by a career-best 31.3 during the 1965-66 campaign ... member of the All-NBA First Team on 10 occasions ... member of the NBA's All-Defensive First Team four times ... 14-time NBA All-Star (All-Star Game MVP in 1972) ... member of the Lakers' 1972 NBA championship team ... named Most Valuable Player of the 1969 NBA Finals ... established an NBA record by scoring 20-plus points in 25 consecutive NBA Finals games (since broken by Michael Jordan) ... holds the NBA record for most free throws made in a single season (840 in 1965-66) ... holds the NBA record for highest scoring average in a single playoff series (46.3 in 1965 six-game series vs. Baltimore) ... was the first-ever draft choice in L.A. Lakers history (second pick overall in the 1960 NBA Draft) ... led the NBA in assists during the 1971-72 campaign (9.7) ... inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame in 1979 ... 14-year NBA veteran (all with the Lakers) ... was named one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history during the league's 50th anniversary season in 1996-97.
13 Wilt Chamberlain
Retired on November 9, 1983 in honor of Wilt Chamberlain, a memeber of the 1971-72 championship team that won an NBA record 33 consecutive games and a then-NBA record 69 contests overall (averaged 14.8 points and team-leading 19.2 rebounds that season) ... named Most Valuable Player of the 1972 NBA Finals, when he averaged 14.7 points and 21.0 rebounds ... led the NBA in rebounding on 11 occasions, including four times with the Lakers ... averaged a Los Angeles franchise record 21.1 rebounds during the 1968-69 campaign and averaged over 18 boards four times with the Lakers ... appeared in 13 NBA All-Star Games ... entered the NBA Hall of Fame in 1978 ... averaged an NBA record 50.4 points during the 1961-62 campaign ... scored 50-plus points on 118 occasions ... led the NBA in both scoring and rebounding (same season) on five occasions ... earned NBA Most Valuable Player honors four times ... was named one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history during the league's 50th anniversary season in 1996-97 ... ranks first overall on the club's field goal percentage list (.605).
22 Elgin Baylor
Retired on November 9, 1983 in honor of Elgin Baylor who ranks among all-time franchise leaders in numerous categories including rebounds (1st, 11,463), points (3rd, 23,149) and assists (6th, 3,650) ... scored a single-game Los Angeles franchise record 71 points on November 15, 1960 @ New York ... 11-time NBA All-Star ... Co-All-Star Game MVP in 1959 ... member of the All-NBA First Team on 10 occasions ... named NBA Rookie of the Year in 1959 ... scored an NBA Finals record 61 points on April 14, 1962 @ Boston ... inducted in the Basketball Hall of Fame in 1976 ... averaged over 30.0 points and 14.0 rebounds (in the same season) three times during his career ... paced the Lakers in rebounding a club-record seven consecutive seasons (1958-59 thru 1964-65) ... averaged a franchise record 38.3 points during the 1961-62 campaign ... led the Lakers in scoring six different seasons, including three straight years 1958-59 through 1960-61 (24.9, 29.6, 34.8) ... averaged 27.4 points and 13.5 rebounds in 846 games overall during his career ... was named one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history during the league's 50th anniversary season in 1996-97.
25 Gail Goodrich
Retired on November 20, 1996 in honor of Gail Goodrich who ranks among all-time club leaders in several categories, including total points (6th, 13,044), assists (7th, 2,863), free throws made (7th, 2,830) and games played (9th, 687) ... holds the Los Angeles franchise record for consecutive free throws made (40 on two different occasions) ... was a member of the Lakers' 1971-72 NBA Championship team that won an all-time professional sports record 33 consecutive games ... member of the All-NBA First Team in 1973-74 ... led the Lakers in scoring four consecutive seasons (1971-72 thru 1974-75), joining Jerry West and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar as the only players to accomplish this feat ... was inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame in 1996 ... appeared in four consecutive All-Star Games during his tenure with the Lakers (1972, 1973, 1974, 1975).
32 Magic Johnson
Retired on February 16, 1992 in honor of Earvin "Magic" Johnson who ranks second on the NBA's all-time assist chart (10,141), trailing only John Stockton ... led the NBA in assists five consecutive seasons (1982-83 thru 1986-87), highlighted by a career-high and single-season club record of 13.1 during the 1983-84 campaign ... handed out a team single-game record 24 assists three times, including once during the playoffs (NBA playoff record) ... selected first overall by the Lakers in the 1979 NBA Draft ... registered 138 career triple doubles ... member of five NBA championship teams with the Lakers (1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988) ... appeared in nine NBA Finals druing his 13-year career ... Lakers averaged 59 victories per season during his career ... named NBA's Most Valuable Player on three times (1980, 1982, 1987) ... earned All-NBA First Team honors nine times ... 12-time NBA All-Star ... named All-Star Game MVP on two occasions (1990, 1992) ... led the NBA in free throw percentage in 1988-99 (.911) ... paced the NBA in steals twice (1981 and 1982) ... was named one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history during the league's 50th anniversary season in 1996-97.
33 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Retired on March 20, 1989 in honor of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the NBA's all-time leading scorer (38,387) ... led Los Angeles in scoring a club-record 11 consecutive seasons (1975-76 thru 1985-86) ... averaged 20-plus points each of his first 17 years in the NBA and in double figures each of his 20 campaigns ... ranks among NBA all-time leaders in numerous other categories, including rebounds (4th, 17,440) and blocked shots (2nd, 3,189) ... member of six NBA championship teams (five with the Lakers, one with Milwaukee) ... earned NBA Most Valuable Player honors six times (most in NBA history) ... scored in double figures in an NBA record 787 consecutive games 12/4/77 thru 12/2/87 ... named NBA Rookie of the Year in 1970 ... named Most Valuable Player of the NBA Finals twice (1971, 1985) ... member of the All-NBA First Team 10 times ... selected to play in 19 NBA All-Star Games ... selected to the NBA's All-Defensive First Team on five occasions ... led the NBA in blocked shots four times ... played 20 years in the NBA (14 with the Lakers, six with Milwaukee) ... was named one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history during the league's 50th anniversary season in 1996-97.
42 James Worthy
Retired on December 10, 1995 in honor of James Worthy who was named Most Valuable Player of the 1988 NBA Finals (22.0 points, 7.4 rebounds, 4.4 assists) ... registered a triple-double in Game 7 of the 1988 NBA Finals (36 points, 16 rebounds, 10 assists) ... was the first overall pick in the 1982 NBA Draft ... member of three NBA Championship with the Lakers (1985, 1987, 1988) ... seven-time NBA All-Star ... averaged 20-plus points on four occasions ... led the Lakers in scoring two consecutive seasons (1990-91 and 1991-92) ... ranks among all-time Los Angeles franchise leaders in several categories, including scoring (5th, 16,320), steals (2nd, 1,041) and field goal percentage (6th, .521) ... averaged 21.1 points in 143 career playoff games (.544 FG%) ... memeber of the All-NBA Third Team on two occasions ... field goal percentage eclipsed .530 each of his first eight seasons in the NBA ... 12-year NBA veteran (all with the Lakers) ... was named one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history during the league's 50th anniversary season in 1996-97.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 09:22 PM
Exhelodrvr,
It's really hard for me to define Rodman. At first glance you would think to call him a role player, but to do so would totally down play how dominant he was on the defensive end of the floor. Now, you might say there have been other "role" players who have been dominant at the defensive end, but Rodman was a different breed. He was the BEST defender in the league for years, and was probably the most dominant rebounder of the 90's.
I think about Rodman like I think about Ozzie Smith: Not great offensively, but was soooo great defensively that he has to be put into the HOF. I think Rodman was too dominant a defensive player to just say he was a "role" player. To me he was just a different kind of superstar.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 29, 2006 at 09:23 PM
****How did we get Magic Johnson?****
Was just browsing the Laker website when I came across this tidbit that I thought the newbies might enjoy which happened right after Jerry Buss bought the Lakers. Of course, the rules are different now so don't expect Mitch to replicate the move.
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"During the offseason owner Jack Kent Cooke sold his sports empire, which included the Lakers and the Great Western Forum, to Santa Monica real estate developer Jerry Buss for $67.5 million. Buss brought in Jack McKinney as the new head coach."
"When the Lakers had let Gail Goodrich go to free agency prior to the 1976-77 season, they had no idea how significant Goodrich's departure would be for the team's future. Because Goodrich signed with the New Orleans Jazz as a veteran free agent, the Jazz had to compensate the Lakers. New Orleans did so by giving Los Angeles three draft picks, including its first-round pick in 1979. When the Jazz (who moved to Utah in 1979) finished with the league's worst record in 1978-79, the Lakers found themselves holding the No. 1 overall pick in the 1979 NBA Draft."
"Los Angeles picked Earvin "Magic" Johnson, an electrifying 6-9 point guard who had led Michigan State to the 1979 NCAA Championship. "Showtime" had arrived, and a dynasty was established almost overnight."
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No wonder Jerry Buss wins when he plays poker.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 09:30 PM
I am a laker fan in a state without a professional team. I have found out that being a laker fan in kansas is full of hardships and being disgraced for loyalty of the team. There are very few laker fans in my city and i boast the purple and gold proudly. Laker fans that i have met in the midwest are die hearts like me. Lakerfans in kansas want to heard. Lakernation is not just L.A... Lakerfans of the bread basket always think in the preseason that the lakers will go undefeated that season or will win the title. Maybe the fans should be retired as the role players in this laker hall of fame.
-Coffeyville Kansas
Posted by: Aaron Patrzykont | August 29, 2006 at 09:31 PM
Weave-Man:
I agree that Rodman should be in the Basketball HOF on the same basis as Ozzie Smith was inducted into the Baseball HOF. Defense AND rebounding made Rodman a real beast.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 09:32 PM
Saga,
I think I give Nick more props than anybody else cuz he was a Laker when we weren't the toast of the NBA. No, he didn't contribute to any championships, but I think he did something just as important: KEPT US RESPECTABLE. Can you imagine how far we could have fallen without Nick, Eddie Jones, and Vlade (who might have been the most important since he got us Kobe). All three of these guys are some of the most unheralded, but they kept the franchise from turning into the Clippers, or Atlanta. In a time of transition for our squad Nick was the leader, and I think he deserves much much respect for that.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 29, 2006 at 09:34 PM
****How the Lakers Got James Worthy****
Another astonishing stroke of luck for the Lakers from the History section on the Lakers website. Wow, who were Don Ford and Chad Kinch?:
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"The Lakers found themselves with an embarrassment of riches when, after winning the championship, they also ended up with the first overall pick in the 1982 NBA Draft. The situation was the result of a trade with Cleveland midway through the 1979-80 season, when the Lakers had sent Don Ford and a 1980 first-round pick (eventually Chad Kinch) to the Cavaliers for Butch Lee and their 1982 selection. Fortuitously for the Lakers, Cleveland had finished with the league's worst record in 1981-82, giving Los Angeles first crack at a talented crop of college players. It marked the first time in NBA history that a reigning champion held the No. 1 pick."
"The Lakers used that pick to select forward James Worthy, who had just led North Carolina to the 1982 NCAA Championship. Worthy, Magic Johnson, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would define the powerhouse Lakers teams of the 1980s. Worthy proved to be the perfect complement to both players, finishing on the break for Johnson and stepping out to the perimeter when Abdul-Jabbar needed room to maneuver inside."
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 09:37 PM
Aaron,
I think it depends on how well Kobe plays with 24 that decides what number will be retired. I think if he leads us to more championships (which he will) they might have a combination 8/24 jersey for him in the rafters.
Even though I'm not the biggest Shaq fan, his number will definitely be retired. He did too much for our team for the organization not to give him the respect, and honor he deserves by being in the rafters with the other greats.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 29, 2006 at 09:41 PM
***And Don't Forget This Laker Hall of Famer***
On May 9, 1991 Francis Dayle "Chick" Hearn became the third broadcaster to be inducted into Basketball Hall of Fame in Springfield, Massachusetts. Man, I really miss Chick!
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Chick-isms:
Air-ball: A shot that draws nothing but air.
(He sent that one back) Air-mail Special!: A strongly-blocked shot, often sent high into the stands.
Bloooows the layup! : Missed a very easy layup.
Boo-birds: Fans who boo their own team when they play badly.
(He did the) bunny hop in the pea patch: He was called for traveling.
(You could) call it with Braille: An easy call for an official, e.g. a blatant foul.
(He got) caught with his hand in the cookie jar: A reaching foul.
(The) Charity Stripe: The free-throw line.
(He's got 'em) covered like the rug on your floor: Really good one-on-one defense.
(They) couldn't beat the Sisters of Mercy: The team is getting beat badly.
(They) couldn't throw a pea into the ocean: The team's shooting is really awful.
(It'll) count if it goes ...: A player shoots just before the buzzer. It go-o-o-oes! (if the shot is successful)
(That shot) didn't draw iron: A shot which misses the rim, but hits the backboard.
Dime store score: A 10 to 5 score
Dribble-drive: A player drives the basket while dribbling.
Finger roll: A shot where the ball rolls off the shooter's fingers.
(He) fly-swatted (that one): A shot blocked with force and authority.
Football score: A score resembling one often seen in a football game (e.g., 21 to 14).
(He threw up a) frozen rope: A shot with a very flat trajectory.
(We're) high above the western sideline: Chick's perch at the Fabulous Forum, from which he called his word's eye views of the game.
Hippity-hops the dribble: A player dribbling the ball does a little hop step.
I'll bet you an ice-cream: Hearn and Keith Erickson (his one-time color commentator) often bet ice creams on the outcome of a shot or game.
(He's got) ice-water in his veins: When a player hits a clutch free-throw.
(It's) garbage time: The (often sloppily-played) remainder of the game (after it’s in the refrigerator).
Give and Go: A player passes the ball, makes a quick cut, and receives a return pass.
(In & out,) heart-brrrreak!: A shot that appears to go in, but rattles off the rim and misses. Sometimes it went in so far you could read the Commissioner's name from below.
He has two chances, slim and none, and slim just left the building: The player has no chance of success with this play.
If that goes in, I'm walking home: Similar to a prayer, when the opponent shoots a shot that is a prayer, a streak, or some amazing shot. (Usually on the road)
Leapin' Lena: A shot made while the player is in the air and off balance.
(There are) lots of referees in the building, only three getting paid: The entire crowd acts as though they are the officials by disagreeing with a call.
The mustard's off the hot dog: A player attempts an unnecessarily showy, flashy play which ends up in a turnover or is otherwise unsuccessful.
Nervous time: When the final moments of a game are pressure-packed.
94-by-50 hunk of wood: Simply put, a basketball court's dimensions. (Attacking 47 feet: The front court.)
No harm, no foul(no blood, no ambulance, no stitches): A non-call by an official when varying degrees of contact have occurred. More adjectives means the non-call was more questionable.)
Not Phi Beta Kappa: Simply put, not a smart play.
...Since Hector was a pup A very long time (e.g., the Lakers haven't had the lead since Hector was a pup.)
He's in the Popcorn Machine (with butter and salt all over him): Meaning that a defensive player got faked into the air by an offensive player's pump fake.
(He's) on him like a postage stamp: Very tight defense, simply put.
Slam dunk!: Hearn's most famous phrase; a powerful shot where a player forces the ball through the rim with one or both hands.
(He) takes him to the third floor and leaves him at the mezzanine: A move where an offensive player pump-fakes a defender and draws a foul from the leaping player.
This game's in the refrigerator: the door is closed, the lights are out, the eggs are cooling, the butter's getting hard, and the Jello's jigglin'!: The game's outcome is set; only the final score is in question.
Throws up a brick: When a player tosses up a particularly errant shot.
Throws up a prayer (... it's answered!!!): A wild shot that will need a miracle to score (and does).
Ticky-tack: A foul called when very little contact has been made.
Triple-double: A player gets 10 or more (i.e. double digits) in three statistical categories: points, rebounds, assists, steals or blocked shots.
(On his) wallet: A player fell on his rear end.
Words-eye view: What listeners received while listening to Hearn call the game on the radio.
(He's) working on his Wrigleys. A player is chewing gum.
(He's) yo-yo-ing up and down: A player is standing there dribbling the ball up and down as if it was a yo-yo on a string.
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Nicknames for Laker players:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Cap, The Captain, Big Fella
Kobe Bryant: The Kid
Cedric Ceballos: Garbage Man
Michael Cooper: Secretary of Defense
Rick Fox: Foxy
Gail Goodrich: Stumpy (because of his height) This nickname, frequently used by Hearn, was actually given to Goodrich by teammate Elgin Baylor.
Magic Johnson: Buck
Shaquille O'Neal: Big Fella
Kurt Rambis: Blue-collar Kurt, Clark Kent (because of his safety glasses)
Jerry West: Mr. Clutch, Zeke from Cabin Creek
James Worthy: Big Game James
Nick Van Exel: Nick the Quick, Nick Van Excellent
Sedale Threatt: Thief of Baghdad
Eddie Jones: Fast Eddie, The Pickpocket
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 09:53 PM
AK/BK:
"Frontier Airlines - Bling, Bling!"
"NetFlix - Bling, Bling!"
"Time-Warner Cable - Bling, Bling!"
I just realized that we are making money for you every time that we refresh the screen looking for new posts. What a gig, guys. Bling, Bling!
haha.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 09:56 PM
KG is not coming to the Lakers.
Posted by: Ken | August 29, 2006 at 10:06 PM