Thank You RichDaDCLakerFan...
... Because we could use a break from debating Smush vs. Farmar, Pinnock vs. "The System," and "KG Joining the Lakers" vs. "Ain't Gonna Happen." And your comment presents a pretty cool topic of discussion.
"Of all of the role players we have had over the years, do you think there are some role players worthy of having their jersey retired? The first one that comes to mind who should be considered is Michael Cooper. He was on all 5 Showtime Laker championship teams, defensive player of the year 86-87, and played his entire career with the team. Any thoughts?"
Interesting question, indeed.
I remember when Robert Horry was en route to winning his sixth ring with San Antonio (and hitting his typical array of clutch shots to make it happen), it spurred (sorry!) a debate between BK and I that lasted roughly a week. The subject? Should role players be allowed in the Hall of Fame? I won't subject y'all to a complete rehash of our yapping. You good people certainly don't deserve that. But in a nutshell, even though there would be inherent problems (how to truly judge one role guy against the next, since much of what they do isn't stat heavy), I liked the idea simply because rewarding standout guys of that nature appealed to me, imperfections be damned. BK was against it because he hates Robert Horry. Or more accurately, because aside from issues already presented, guys who simply weren't good enough to be HOF players โ as opposed to sacrificing stats for team โ could end up enshrined (which may diminish the point of the Hall itself) and someone like Horry may have an unfair advantage due to the teams he played with. In the end, nothing was decided for sure (other than BK and I having way too much time on our hands), but it was a lively discussion. And it sort of reminds me of Rich's question. If the HOF is indeed too much, even for the best of role players, perhaps the team should be doing something on their behalf.
As far as literally retiring the numbers, put aside the "who's to say blah blah blah is better than blah blah blah?" arguments. The biggest problem I see is eventually running out of numbers for current players. Seriously. Say there are one or two outstanding role players every few seasons (and with the Lakers' stellar track record in this regard, that could be guesstimating on the low side). If each of those guys' numbers go the way of the Logo, Cap or Goodrich (not to mention inevitable candidates like Kobe and Shaq), we're eventually gonna see Lakers with decimal pointed digits, letters or shapes under the names on their jerseys. They'll even burn through the weirdo numbers like 73 and 91 that only the Rodmans and Artests of the world wear. Therefore, a formal retirement may require the kabash on a purely practical level.
What I do think could work and would definitely be cool, though, is some item next to the retired jerseys that lists all the exceptional role players. It could be an oversized jersey, a plaque, whatever. Those invaluable guys get their due and a suitable assortment of numbers remain open for use.
Would you get behind this? Or do you think while role players should be appreciated, there are certain honors reserved for stars and stars only?
โAK
Shouldn't let them in the hall, or have their jersey's retired.
It's good enough being a professional athlete, being adored by so many people, and if lucky winning championships.
You just can't let anybody into the HOF or retire their numbers.
Posted by: SamIAm | August 29, 2006 at 02:46 PM
Very cool question.
I for one do NOT think role players should have their jerseys retired, nor do I think they should be in the Hall of Fame. First off, I'd like to see the Hall of Fame be made harder to get into. I know, I know, player B will say his stats were similar to player A and player A is in, why isn't he, but tough sh*t. I think if you make it to the Hall you should be the dominant player at your position during your era.
As for the jersey being retired, again, like a muted version of the Hall, for teams only. I like the idea of a plaque or something to commemorate their contribution, but let's not get things twisted, if you get your number retired it's because you were the man on this team for quite awhile and you were the engine that moved the machine.
If it had to happen, I would definitely go with Coop. When I think of the Celts-Lakers battles in the 80's I think of the Coop versus Bird match-up as much as the Magic-Bird match-up. High socks versus the blonde fro. Skinny dude versus Cheesy porn stache.
As for Robery Horry, yeah he's been clutch, but if he misses those shots he doesn't get ripped for the loss, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, etc. do. He's in a win-win situation. He makes it, he's Big Shot Bob, he misses, Kobe was a ballhog and it shouldn't have been that close. That's why Kobe's 8/24 will be retired and Horry gets just the coolest nickname ever. Whoever carries the weight of the team on their shoulders gets immortalized.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 29, 2006 at 02:46 PM
...sort of like a "ring of fame" you might find on football stadiums?
whould SeeDoo Ceballos make the cut?
-E
Posted by: E Homp | August 29, 2006 at 02:48 PM
The Lakers should reserve a part of the stadium to honour ALL their players, and have a special part for their special players.
Yes the superstar numbers get retired but dammittohellman, where would we have been without the Bob Mcdoo's. Silk Wilke's, Robert Horry, Norm Nixon, Byron Scott, Mychael Thompson, et al?
Since I have never been to Staples, you all would have to tell who all have had their numbers retired.
To put your question another way AK, and provide my answer perhaps: Is James Worthy's number among the rafters?
Posted by: Glenn | August 29, 2006 at 02:50 PM
It would be a disgrace if A.C. Green didn't join that list.
A.C. epitomizes what it means to be a sports professional. I think his maturity/ professionalism really makes him "the good guy in la-la land". And I know, good guys finish last. But lets make an exception for a good man like A.C..
Join the A.C. bandwagon!
How about Sam Bowie? hehe
Posted by: joby | August 29, 2006 at 02:54 PM
How about a Lakers "Role of Honor" Banner. Like the one they have for the Minn Lakers HOFers. The first Lakers I would put on there would be:
Jamal Wilkes
Norm Nixon
Mike Cooper
Byron Scott
A.C. Green
Robert Horry
Brian Shaw
Honorable Mentions would be:
Kurt Rambis
Bob McAdoo
Mychael Thompson
Rick Fox
Ron Harper (barely, only 2 yrs. with Lakers)
I only go as far back as the late 70's. Don't know of any great role players prior to that although i'm sure there are some. None from the 90's though, they were horid years.
dymandave
Posted by: dymandave | August 29, 2006 at 02:54 PM
Glenn,
"Big Game James" is indeed enshrined. Dude is also one of the "50 Greatest Players."
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 29, 2006 at 02:57 PM
Thanks AK. I joined the Lakers with Magic, absolutely positively idolized Kareem but I really liked James Worthy who was probably the most exciting player in the L his second year. The guy was so good they had to literally break his leg to stop him.
Norm Nixon, Bob Mcadoo, AC Green, Kurt Rambis, Mychael Thompson, Byron Scott, Derek Fisher, Big Shot Rob, even Nick the Quick among a slew of others deserve some sort of recognition in a Lakers Hall of Fame.
Posted by: Glenn | August 29, 2006 at 03:09 PM
I really like the Ring of Honor idea, as long as the captain of the Kobe-Shaq Lakers, Rick Fox, is on the list. Fox was a key contributor in a number of different roles for the Lakers during his stint with the team, and he was perhaps the only true leader on the team in that eight year stretch. The Lakers honored him last season (I think they gave him a framed jersey, but I'm not sure) and it would be great to see them have a similar ceremony with Fox, Cooper, Byron Scott, Horry, and others.
Posted by: Mike | August 29, 2006 at 03:43 PM
I agree with Andrew Z 100%. I too think HOF should be made HARDER to get into, not easier. I would like it to be so that I can look back on any player, and having never seen the guy play, just KNOW he was a dominant great player of his time and not just a guy who accumulated a lot of stats on mediocre teams.
Coop is a great pick. Same with Horry. It'd be nice to see Rambis get some recognition for his self-sacrificing hard nose play. I always wonder what Byron Scott's career wouldve been like had he been on a bad team. And gotta throw out my main man Nicky V's name out there....for basically carrying us through some dark years.
Posted by: wiZo | August 29, 2006 at 03:45 PM
John Havlicek was a role player for most of his career. (Although a starter the last 5 or 6.)
Many of the retired Celts were role players.
Coop deserves a retired number. None of the other Lakers mentioned do.
To qualify you have to be acknowledged as a star in the league, and as one who would be a star anywhere else. Coop would have been all defensive no matter where he played, and his offensive numbers would have been slightly higher.
Nixon was not a star with Clippers, Rambis was not a star with Hornets, Thompson with San Antonio, etc. Van Exel was traded by the Logo. (nuff' said.)
From the 60's maybe Dick "Fall Back Baby!" Barnett would qualify.
No one from the 70's comes to mind. 80's is Coop. 90's--nope.
No one from the 'oo's, even tho' I think the case can be made that Horry should be in HOF for collecting 6 rings with 3 different teams. (Certainly off the bench in All Nba Playoff Team.)
Posted by: lone star laker fan | August 29, 2006 at 03:45 PM
Oh, Im not saying any of the players I mentioned should be HOF or have their jerseys retired. Just giving them some props.
But, btw, Jerry West was VERY bitter about having to trade Nick Van Exel.
Posted by: wiZo | August 29, 2006 at 04:16 PM
First you need to define "role player". Someone who sacrifices their game for the good of the team? Someone who excels in certain aspects fo the game but is not a great all-around player (i.e Dennis Rodman, Ben Wallace)? Or someone who realizes their limitations and plays within themselves? A non-starter who still makes major contributions? (i.e. John Havlicek, Detlef Schrempf).
Do bad teams ever have role players?
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 29, 2006 at 04:19 PM
exhelodrvr,
Darius Miles was a role player for the horrible Trailblazers last year. He played the role of malcontent and team cancer.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 29, 2006 at 04:27 PM
These guys do deserve credit. Personally, however, I've always felt that they allow too many players into the HOF. I always feel that this should only be reserved for the absolute best of the best, such as Magic, Michael, Kareem, etc. Of course you can't go back and take guys out, but everytime there's a new "class" inducted, I feel the value of the Hall drop.
In short, role players: Not allowed in the HOF. But I do like the idea of each team honoring, in some way, their own local legends.
B.
Thee Cali King
Posted by: Cali King | August 29, 2006 at 04:35 PM
I like the ring of honor idea. We could put the most important players names in the rafters, just with no #s. Horry, Fox, and Nick the Quick definitely deserve to be apart of that ROH.
Lone star Laker fan,
We would have been even worse in the 90's without Nick. His talent alone won us more games than we should have won.
Exhelodrvr,
Dennis Rodman IS (or at least should be) a Hall of famer. He was the best rebounder, and one of the best defenders in the league for years.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 29, 2006 at 04:47 PM
As far as the HOF goes, I don't think it should be harder to get into. I could be wrong, but I can't think of any players off the top of my head, that are in that don't belong. I don't think just anybody should be thrown in, but I DO think Horry should at least be considered.
He was one of the main players for at least two teams (Houston is debateable) who won championships, and we all know where we would have been without him. Can you imagine how hard Sonnybelfast would be to deal with if the Kings had beaten us? LOL, I don't know about y'all but I think he should get in the HOF just for CRUSHING the Kings dreams hahaha.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 29, 2006 at 04:55 PM
I'm not opposed to "role players" having their jersey's retired. However, I also think that the screening process she would be very strict.
In other words I do agree with a player such as Michael Cooper having his jersey retired because he was a consumate professional and spend most, if not all of his career, as a Laker. But I would be against someone like Robert Horry, ONLY because he won other rings with other teams so its kind of on the unfair tip.
I don't know, after re-reading my post I can't even make sense of what Im saying myself! I guess I'm just torn between Role players and Stars because you need BOTH to win when it all comes down to it. So it's unfair to give it to one but not the other. Man these blogs are becoming boring!! Season please start already, we're all going crazy here!
Posted by: blaze1bx | August 29, 2006 at 05:16 PM
Purple and Gold:
We still have not heard from you after the start of the war in Lebanon. Are you OK? we all hope so here.
Posted by: Baywood | August 29, 2006 at 05:17 PM
Hey Blog,
Anybody knows if nba.com will have FLEA in their blog journal thing again this year!? He's so cool and a die hard Laker fan. Each and everytime I read his blog/journal I was so entertained. He is hilarious!
Food for thought, YOU do the dishes.....
Posted by: blaze1bx | August 29, 2006 at 05:23 PM
I think certain special role players should be allowed into the HOF. The HOF shouldn't be limited to how you've engrossed alot of points rebounds and/or assists or whatever else in a game. I mean i look back to many of the HOF names and though i'm sure many played good defense, offense seems to be the focal point usually of what makes a star or superstar. Seems what almost makes a great player "great" is his stat line. How bout a defensive stat line? Steals, Blocks, opponent field goal % or ppg vs the player in question. I love Magic Johnson to death and he's an instant HOFer because of his statline yet he wasn't much of a defender. If not for the Michael Coopers of the world who play that shut down defense, can you imagine now many championships guys like the Magic Johnsons and Kareem's of the world might not have won?
As far as retiring jerseys go... same goes for that in regards to role players. The 80's Lakers saw Magic and Kareem running the show. If only superstars should have their jerseys retired... i don't think Worthy should have had his jersey retired. He was more that super role player during those times. Something that fits guys like Rick Fox, Robert Horry, AC Green and Michael Cooper. Guys that in their own right were stars that still shined on their teams and probably could have been something a little more on any other team. These guys are the guys who made their superstars look good. Even if they don't retire their numbers, there should be a jersey or something with the list of names. If ya look to the Staples Center wall you'll see a mic with Chick Hearn's name on it. Something like that for the special role players at least. Bench warmer role players should be the ones happy they are getting what they got... but these super role players deserve it.
As far as Nick Van Exel... while I give props to him as far as what he did with the early/mid 90's Lakers... his actions such as shoving a referee and other questionable conduct are hindering in any case. Lets not forget though that while Nick was good, there was a certain 7' Serbian Center on our team by the name of Vlade Divac who wasn't all too bad himself. He wasn't a superstar but he was still one of the better legit centers in the league and did his own share of scoring as well as dishin the rock.
Posted by: Da 1 Rejekt | August 29, 2006 at 05:38 PM
Baywood,
Yeah, I only heard Purple & Gold one time when we were talking about the Laker oldtimers. Now that the war is over, I hope the family of P & G is OK.
For the role players, I will go for Jamaal Wilkes and Robert Horry. They really give meaning to the importance of role players.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | August 29, 2006 at 05:51 PM
Weave-man
Like as much as you that idea of ROH, but I disagree on Nick. Sure, he helped our team during the 90's, but do we have to put his name with Horry, Fox, and all the good players from the 80's (and God that 80's list could be long) ? In fact, I'm not so sure, but while the above players are definitely on this list, we can't put him on this list like that. Maybe cuz he didn't win a ring.
For the question, I don't think role players should be allowed. Sure, Bob won us numerous games, but like somebody in that thread said, he doesn't carry the team on his shoulders. Not taking anything away from him, I love that guy, but if he did make some shots in the last few seconds of close games, who kept those games closed ? 'nuff said.
So, HOF for Horry, Fox and others ? Not in their dreams. Number retired ? At least for Horry & Fox. But I seriously love the idea of a "Lakers Hall of Fame". Seriously, I don't know exactly how many basketball gods played for us, but that list must be longer than the Celtics'.
Anyway, that problem doesn't apply for Michael Cooper. I don't know why he's not in this HOF. I just don't get it. If I ran a team and had to choose between him and Dumars, I'd make my choice in approximatively 3.2 seconds. Don't you think there's a problem when Cooper is not an HOFer, but Drazen Petrovic is ?
Saga
Posted by: Saga | August 29, 2006 at 06:03 PM
Weave-Man,
I agree with you on Rodman; my point about him was that he only did certain things, he did not have a complete game. Would you consider Rodman a "Role player"?
Most "role players" don't have a choice about it; they are players with limited skills who fit in with a team because that team has other players who compensate in the area that the role player is lacking in. I can only think of a handful of players who accepted a lesser role than what they were capable of for the good of the team. David Robinson (towards the end of his career) comes to mind. You could make a case for Michael Cooper, who could have started for most teams.
I would not call Jamaal Wilkes a role player; he was an all-around player who was an all-star on several occasions.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 29, 2006 at 06:08 PM
Andrew Z,
"Darius Miles was a role player for the horrible Trailblazers last year. He played the role of malcontent and team cancer."
Exactly why he would be such a great fit for the Lakers! They don't have anyone in that role on the team yet.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 29, 2006 at 06:10 PM
I was pretty irritated when Worthy didn't make the first Dream Team. I felt that he was underrated.
Posted by: Marcus | August 29, 2006 at 06:22 PM
I don't think a team needs to do anything special or more to honor its role players. All a role player needs to do to be honored is attend a game. The cheers, applause and standing ovations that fill Staples Center whenever the big screen shows Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Michael Cooper or any of our favorite Lakers role players at the game is deafening. They definitely feel the love from the fans and that should be worth more than any plaque, banner or other honor that the Lakers organization can give them.
Posted by: Sandibe | August 29, 2006 at 06:24 PM
I've got to agree with Andrew Z it'd be great sentimentally to see a guy like Big Shot Bob in the Hall of Fame, but logically it doesn't make sense at all. If we start letting role players in what's to keep us from voting in a guy like Ron Harper who has 5 rings or a Steve Kerr who has 4 rings and made the game winner in the 97 finals?
I think a circle of honor is the best thing. You're acknowledging them and not overrating them.
Posted by: Xodus | August 29, 2006 at 06:29 PM
Cooooop!
Sorry just had to get that out lol.
I think that the laker family is just so vast and full of great athletes that it would simply be too hard. However I have to say, in my opinion it needs to remain what it is...franchise players (for the most part) cause in all honesty they really are the people that put the organization in their shoulders.
Posted by: Faith | August 29, 2006 at 06:32 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for those who were asking about the retired numbers at Staples, this is what I remember off top (minus the Minneapolis banner):
In order (Roland let me know if I'm right):
Baylor
West
Chamberlain
Kareem
Magic
Goodrich
Worthy
Chick (with the Mike)
But as I mentioned before, of all of the role players that have played for the Lakers in the last 30 years, you definitely have to give the nod to Coop as top choice, followed by Wilkes, Rambis, and Fox.
Posted by: RichDaDCLakerFan | August 29, 2006 at 06:47 PM
This was a very interesting question posed by BK/AK.
I think without a doubt Rob Horry is a HOF'er. If you look at the precedence, people with individual achievements like Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing do not deserve to be in the HOF more, because they are missing jewlery on there fingers. Truth is, Robert Horry has the most championships of any current player, and at six it is hard to deny him some props. Esp with the big shots he has hit throughout his tenure.
The real question is if Coop or some like B-wallace should be included in the hall/number retierment? Fact is that team/individual defense is merely glossed over, in way of points. I am curious to hear if D-Rodman is a hall of fame worthy as well. As for many of the rest, someone else said it best, you can't let everyone get into the HOF or get a jersey retiered..it is simply a priviledge to put on the uniform..especially the purple and gold.
That being said, something are under valued in todays basketball game.winning has followed Horry everywhere he has gone, which makes you think at some point it has to be him as well.
Hitting big shots for the Spurs Game 7 against the Pistons...Big shots against the Kings and Spurs...And with Houston he can be considered the inspiration for the team's heart of a champion mentality.
Love the Debate tho..great subject.
Posted by: Niketh Kannan | August 29, 2006 at 06:47 PM
they should make a second tier to the hall of fame. for great players, who were never superstars (or even all stars). there should be a hall for the best role players of all time. and no they don't get their number retired, unless they truly deserve it.
Posted by: scott | August 29, 2006 at 07:35 PM
I like the idea of a very special recognition for role players. They deserve it and then some.
But retiring their number and HOF may be diluting what is to be accomplished.
Baywood
Posted by: Baywood | August 29, 2006 at 08:18 PM
Da 1 Rejekt,
I see what you're saying about Nick's actions, but what a lot of people forget is that he didn't intentionally push that ref. If you watch the film of what happened you see that he was pulling his arm free of a teammate(or coach, I can't remember exactly) and his momentum pushed him into the ref.
Now, was it right for him to be trying to get into the refs face in the first place? No, but how many times do we see players, and coaches do that in a game?
I think at the end of Nick's career he will be remembered as a great clutch player who made some mistakes. I just wish that he, and Jerry West could have found someway to fix their relationship so he could still be a Laker, or at least be on better terms with the organization.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 29, 2006 at 08:22 PM
HOF is not for everybody and it shouldnt be. We could start this whole "ring of honor" thing which doesnt sound bad or an Honorable Mention Hall of Fame for these role players. It would be for those who had a good NBA career but never superstars. I wouldnt mind having the jerseys of guys like:Jamal Wilkes
Norm Nixon
Mike Cooper
Byron Scott
A.C. Green
Robert Horry
Brian Shaw
but not retired numbers just a Laker jersey with their name surrouning the retired jerseys. You know like having Rick Fox,Robert Horry and D-Fish surrounding Kobe's jersey. Or somethign along those lines. Even a plaque would be sufficient.
Posted by: Shady | August 29, 2006 at 08:23 PM
Lets see - If the Lakers win the title in a year or two based on #24 and LO leading the way, whose jersey do we retire as a role player?
Kwame or Mihm?
Smush or Farmar?
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
See AK, you can't get away from it...
Posted by: Jay Jay | August 29, 2006 at 08:33 PM
Edwin:
You raised a very interesting point about the Lakers Blog being a goldmine. After all, we know the LA Times is not a charitable organization. I wonder how much actual advertising revenue the LA Times is getting for all of the hits the blog is attracting. Web advertising is definitely directly tied to hits and more hits definitely mean more money.
In fact, maybe my last "joking" post about AK and BK being paid by the number of posts generated represents the "real" truth about the K-Bros and the Lakers Blog. It really makes sense. That is why AK always disagrees with my "optimistic" posts. He knows that will drive me crazy and make me post like a maniac. He and BK (and their agent or agents) are probably laughing all the way to the bank. This is almost funny as Nick shouting โCancunโ in the huddle. I can just see AK and BK clapping their hands in glee and shouting โBling, Blingโ at their computers every time that we post.
Taking this post to its next logical step, are you familiar with the use of โPropsโ in casinos? Props are players who are hired by the casinos to sit in poker games to make sure there are enough players and to add interest. Props work regular 8 hour shifts for which they receive payment from the casino but actually play with their own bankroll. It is entirely possible that I may be a โPropโ hired by the K-Brothers to toss out outlandish predictions and unrealistic assessments of the Lakers in order to generate more posts, which will generate more advertising dollars, which will generate more K-Bros income. But then, I wonder which other posters might also be K-Bros props. There is this guy Edwin, who always has something to say about everythingโฆ
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 08:44 PM
***Laker Basketball Hall of Famers***
This is actually pretty funny. I googled for โLaker HOF playersโ and โLaker Hall of Fame playersโ and the only link that made sense was by Beverly Hills Rent-a-Car:
http://www.bhrentacar.com/la/los-angeles-lakers.html
Here is their list of Laker Players and Coaches who have been inducted into the Hall of Fame. I was actually surprised when I read this list and saw that Connie Hawkins was included. I had actually totally forgotten about Connie. And, of course, several of these guys also wore other jerseys. In fact, I think that Elgin, Jerry, and Magic were the only โpureโ Lakers.
***************************************************
Players:
1 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar- Inducted as a player in 1995.
----Played with the Lakers 1975-89.
2 - Elgin Baylor - As a player in 1976.
-----Played with the Lakers 1960-71.
3 - Wilt Chamberlain - As a player in 1978.
-----Played with the Lakers 1968-73.
4 - Gail Goodrich - As a player in 1996.
-----Played with the Lakers 1965-68 and 1970-76.
5 - Connie Hawkins - As a player in 1992.
-----Played with the Lakers 1973-75.
6 - Jerry West - As a player in 1979.
-----Played with the Lakers 1960-74.
7 - Earvin "Magic" Johnson - As a player in 2002
-----Played with the Lakers 1979-91 and 1995-96.
***************************************************
Again, I was surprised to see that Jerry West had also made the HOF as a coach, even though he never won a title and quit, I believe, because he could not stand the pressure. And, Bill Sharman, of course, was originally a hated Celtic.
***************************************************
Coaches:
1 - Bill Sharman - Inducted as a coach in 1975.
-----Coached the Lakers 1971-76.
2 - Jerry West - Inducted as a coach in 1979.
-----Coached the Lakers 1976-79.
***************************************************
The Minneapolis Lakers have 7 players and 3 coaches inducted, with George Mikan being inducted as both a player and as a coach.
***************************************************
Some other interesting tidbits from the site were:
***************************************************
Players who have taken the NBA MVP award as L.A Lakers.
1999-00: Shaquille O'Neal
1989-90, 1988-1989 and 1986-1987: Magic Johnson
1979-80, 1976-77 and 1975-1976: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (3 times for Milwaukee)
Laker Coaches have taken Coach of the Year award two years.
1994-95: Del Harris
1989-90: Pat Riley
I was again astonished that Del Harris won COY twice.
***************************************************
And finally, I didnโt know that Mitch Kupchak was actually the President of the Los Angeles Lakers.
***************************************************
Current Management
Here is a look at the people who currently manage the Lakers.
Lakers Owner: Jerry Buss
President/General Manager: Mitch Kupchak
Head Coach: Phil Jackson
Wow. Is this info correct? I couldnโt find an easy duplicate of the information but some of it seems suspect.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 09:16 PM
When Kobe retires his number into the lakers hall of fame what number will he retire #8 or #24? Also will the lakers retire shaq's number 34 since he has been with the lakers the longest and had the most sucess or are the strings cut between shaq and jerry bus? Just a few random questions/thoughts from my mind.
-Coffeyville Kansas
Posted by: Aaron Patrzykont | August 29, 2006 at 09:18 PM
*****Lakers Retired Numbers*****
This came from the Lakers Web Site. It was such fun reading that I decided to post the entire thing. Maybe the K-Bros get paid by the word rather than the post. haha. Anyway, Laker fans will enjoy reliving these 7 great Laker players. For sure #8/24 will be added when he retires. A very elite club indeed! A very storied franchise indeed!
44 Jerry West
Retired on November 19, 1983 in honor of Jerry West whose career scoring average (27.0) ranks fourth all-time in NBA history ... playoff scoring average (29.1) ranks second all-time in NBA annals, trailing only Michael Jordan ... Lakers' all-time leading scorer (25,192) ... led the Lakers in scoring seven different seasons, highlighted by a career-best 31.3 during the 1965-66 campaign ... member of the All-NBA First Team on 10 occasions ... member of the NBA's All-Defensive First Team four times ... 14-time NBA All-Star (All-Star Game MVP in 1972) ... member of the Lakers' 1972 NBA championship team ... named Most Valuable Player of the 1969 NBA Finals ... established an NBA record by scoring 20-plus points in 25 consecutive NBA Finals games (since broken by Michael Jordan) ... holds the NBA record for most free throws made in a single season (840 in 1965-66) ... holds the NBA record for highest scoring average in a single playoff series (46.3 in 1965 six-game series vs. Baltimore) ... was the first-ever draft choice in L.A. Lakers history (second pick overall in the 1960 NBA Draft) ... led the NBA in assists during the 1971-72 campaign (9.7) ... inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame in 1979 ... 14-year NBA veteran (all with the Lakers) ... was named one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history during the league's 50th anniversary season in 1996-97.
13 Wilt Chamberlain
Retired on November 9, 1983 in honor of Wilt Chamberlain, a memeber of the 1971-72 championship team that won an NBA record 33 consecutive games and a then-NBA record 69 contests overall (averaged 14.8 points and team-leading 19.2 rebounds that season) ... named Most Valuable Player of the 1972 NBA Finals, when he averaged 14.7 points and 21.0 rebounds ... led the NBA in rebounding on 11 occasions, including four times with the Lakers ... averaged a Los Angeles franchise record 21.1 rebounds during the 1968-69 campaign and averaged over 18 boards four times with the Lakers ... appeared in 13 NBA All-Star Games ... entered the NBA Hall of Fame in 1978 ... averaged an NBA record 50.4 points during the 1961-62 campaign ... scored 50-plus points on 118 occasions ... led the NBA in both scoring and rebounding (same season) on five occasions ... earned NBA Most Valuable Player honors four times ... was named one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history during the league's 50th anniversary season in 1996-97 ... ranks first overall on the club's field goal percentage list (.605).
22 Elgin Baylor
Retired on November 9, 1983 in honor of Elgin Baylor who ranks among all-time franchise leaders in numerous categories including rebounds (1st, 11,463), points (3rd, 23,149) and assists (6th, 3,650) ... scored a single-game Los Angeles franchise record 71 points on November 15, 1960 @ New York ... 11-time NBA All-Star ... Co-All-Star Game MVP in 1959 ... member of the All-NBA First Team on 10 occasions ... named NBA Rookie of the Year in 1959 ... scored an NBA Finals record 61 points on April 14, 1962 @ Boston ... inducted in the Basketball Hall of Fame in 1976 ... averaged over 30.0 points and 14.0 rebounds (in the same season) three times during his career ... paced the Lakers in rebounding a club-record seven consecutive seasons (1958-59 thru 1964-65) ... averaged a franchise record 38.3 points during the 1961-62 campaign ... led the Lakers in scoring six different seasons, including three straight years 1958-59 through 1960-61 (24.9, 29.6, 34.8) ... averaged 27.4 points and 13.5 rebounds in 846 games overall during his career ... was named one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history during the league's 50th anniversary season in 1996-97.
25 Gail Goodrich
Retired on November 20, 1996 in honor of Gail Goodrich who ranks among all-time club leaders in several categories, including total points (6th, 13,044), assists (7th, 2,863), free throws made (7th, 2,830) and games played (9th, 687) ... holds the Los Angeles franchise record for consecutive free throws made (40 on two different occasions) ... was a member of the Lakers' 1971-72 NBA Championship team that won an all-time professional sports record 33 consecutive games ... member of the All-NBA First Team in 1973-74 ... led the Lakers in scoring four consecutive seasons (1971-72 thru 1974-75), joining Jerry West and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar as the only players to accomplish this feat ... was inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame in 1996 ... appeared in four consecutive All-Star Games during his tenure with the Lakers (1972, 1973, 1974, 1975).
32 Magic Johnson
Retired on February 16, 1992 in honor of Earvin "Magic" Johnson who ranks second on the NBA's all-time assist chart (10,141), trailing only John Stockton ... led the NBA in assists five consecutive seasons (1982-83 thru 1986-87), highlighted by a career-high and single-season club record of 13.1 during the 1983-84 campaign ... handed out a team single-game record 24 assists three times, including once during the playoffs (NBA playoff record) ... selected first overall by the Lakers in the 1979 NBA Draft ... registered 138 career triple doubles ... member of five NBA championship teams with the Lakers (1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988) ... appeared in nine NBA Finals druing his 13-year career ... Lakers averaged 59 victories per season during his career ... named NBA's Most Valuable Player on three times (1980, 1982, 1987) ... earned All-NBA First Team honors nine times ... 12-time NBA All-Star ... named All-Star Game MVP on two occasions (1990, 1992) ... led the NBA in free throw percentage in 1988-99 (.911) ... paced the NBA in steals twice (1981 and 1982) ... was named one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history during the league's 50th anniversary season in 1996-97.
33 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Retired on March 20, 1989 in honor of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the NBA's all-time leading scorer (38,387) ... led Los Angeles in scoring a club-record 11 consecutive seasons (1975-76 thru 1985-86) ... averaged 20-plus points each of his first 17 years in the NBA and in double figures each of his 20 campaigns ... ranks among NBA all-time leaders in numerous other categories, including rebounds (4th, 17,440) and blocked shots (2nd, 3,189) ... member of six NBA championship teams (five with the Lakers, one with Milwaukee) ... earned NBA Most Valuable Player honors six times (most in NBA history) ... scored in double figures in an NBA record 787 consecutive games 12/4/77 thru 12/2/87 ... named NBA Rookie of the Year in 1970 ... named Most Valuable Player of the NBA Finals twice (1971, 1985) ... member of the All-NBA First Team 10 times ... selected to play in 19 NBA All-Star Games ... selected to the NBA's All-Defensive First Team on five occasions ... led the NBA in blocked shots four times ... played 20 years in the NBA (14 with the Lakers, six with Milwaukee) ... was named one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history during the league's 50th anniversary season in 1996-97.
42 James Worthy
Retired on December 10, 1995 in honor of James Worthy who was named Most Valuable Player of the 1988 NBA Finals (22.0 points, 7.4 rebounds, 4.4 assists) ... registered a triple-double in Game 7 of the 1988 NBA Finals (36 points, 16 rebounds, 10 assists) ... was the first overall pick in the 1982 NBA Draft ... member of three NBA Championship with the Lakers (1985, 1987, 1988) ... seven-time NBA All-Star ... averaged 20-plus points on four occasions ... led the Lakers in scoring two consecutive seasons (1990-91 and 1991-92) ... ranks among all-time Los Angeles franchise leaders in several categories, including scoring (5th, 16,320), steals (2nd, 1,041) and field goal percentage (6th, .521) ... averaged 21.1 points in 143 career playoff games (.544 FG%) ... memeber of the All-NBA Third Team on two occasions ... field goal percentage eclipsed .530 each of his first eight seasons in the NBA ... 12-year NBA veteran (all with the Lakers) ... was named one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history during the league's 50th anniversary season in 1996-97.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 09:22 PM
Exhelodrvr,
It's really hard for me to define Rodman. At first glance you would think to call him a role player, but to do so would totally down play how dominant he was on the defensive end of the floor. Now, you might say there have been other "role" players who have been dominant at the defensive end, but Rodman was a different breed. He was the BEST defender in the league for years, and was probably the most dominant rebounder of the 90's.
I think about Rodman like I think about Ozzie Smith: Not great offensively, but was soooo great defensively that he has to be put into the HOF. I think Rodman was too dominant a defensive player to just say he was a "role" player. To me he was just a different kind of superstar.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 29, 2006 at 09:23 PM
****How did we get Magic Johnson?****
Was just browsing the Laker website when I came across this tidbit that I thought the newbies might enjoy which happened right after Jerry Buss bought the Lakers. Of course, the rules are different now so don't expect Mitch to replicate the move.
*****************************************
"During the offseason owner Jack Kent Cooke sold his sports empire, which included the Lakers and the Great Western Forum, to Santa Monica real estate developer Jerry Buss for $67.5 million. Buss brought in Jack McKinney as the new head coach."
"When the Lakers had let Gail Goodrich go to free agency prior to the 1976-77 season, they had no idea how significant Goodrich's departure would be for the team's future. Because Goodrich signed with the New Orleans Jazz as a veteran free agent, the Jazz had to compensate the Lakers. New Orleans did so by giving Los Angeles three draft picks, including its first-round pick in 1979. When the Jazz (who moved to Utah in 1979) finished with the league's worst record in 1978-79, the Lakers found themselves holding the No. 1 overall pick in the 1979 NBA Draft."
"Los Angeles picked Earvin "Magic" Johnson, an electrifying 6-9 point guard who had led Michigan State to the 1979 NCAA Championship. "Showtime" had arrived, and a dynasty was established almost overnight."
*****************************************
No wonder Jerry Buss wins when he plays poker.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 09:30 PM
I am a laker fan in a state without a professional team. I have found out that being a laker fan in kansas is full of hardships and being disgraced for loyalty of the team. There are very few laker fans in my city and i boast the purple and gold proudly. Laker fans that i have met in the midwest are die hearts like me. Lakerfans in kansas want to heard. Lakernation is not just L.A... Lakerfans of the bread basket always think in the preseason that the lakers will go undefeated that season or will win the title. Maybe the fans should be retired as the role players in this laker hall of fame.
-Coffeyville Kansas
Posted by: Aaron Patrzykont | August 29, 2006 at 09:31 PM
Weave-Man:
I agree that Rodman should be in the Basketball HOF on the same basis as Ozzie Smith was inducted into the Baseball HOF. Defense AND rebounding made Rodman a real beast.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 09:32 PM
Saga,
I think I give Nick more props than anybody else cuz he was a Laker when we weren't the toast of the NBA. No, he didn't contribute to any championships, but I think he did something just as important: KEPT US RESPECTABLE. Can you imagine how far we could have fallen without Nick, Eddie Jones, and Vlade (who might have been the most important since he got us Kobe). All three of these guys are some of the most unheralded, but they kept the franchise from turning into the Clippers, or Atlanta. In a time of transition for our squad Nick was the leader, and I think he deserves much much respect for that.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 29, 2006 at 09:34 PM
****How the Lakers Got James Worthy****
Another astonishing stroke of luck for the Lakers from the History section on the Lakers website. Wow, who were Don Ford and Chad Kinch?:
********************************************
"The Lakers found themselves with an embarrassment of riches when, after winning the championship, they also ended up with the first overall pick in the 1982 NBA Draft. The situation was the result of a trade with Cleveland midway through the 1979-80 season, when the Lakers had sent Don Ford and a 1980 first-round pick (eventually Chad Kinch) to the Cavaliers for Butch Lee and their 1982 selection. Fortuitously for the Lakers, Cleveland had finished with the league's worst record in 1981-82, giving Los Angeles first crack at a talented crop of college players. It marked the first time in NBA history that a reigning champion held the No. 1 pick."
"The Lakers used that pick to select forward James Worthy, who had just led North Carolina to the 1982 NCAA Championship. Worthy, Magic Johnson, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would define the powerhouse Lakers teams of the 1980s. Worthy proved to be the perfect complement to both players, finishing on the break for Johnson and stepping out to the perimeter when Abdul-Jabbar needed room to maneuver inside."
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 09:37 PM
Aaron,
I think it depends on how well Kobe plays with 24 that decides what number will be retired. I think if he leads us to more championships (which he will) they might have a combination 8/24 jersey for him in the rafters.
Even though I'm not the biggest Shaq fan, his number will definitely be retired. He did too much for our team for the organization not to give him the respect, and honor he deserves by being in the rafters with the other greats.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 29, 2006 at 09:41 PM
***And Don't Forget This Laker Hall of Famer***
On May 9, 1991 Francis Dayle "Chick" Hearn became the third broadcaster to be inducted into Basketball Hall of Fame in Springfield, Massachusetts. Man, I really miss Chick!
********************************
Chick-isms:
Air-ball: A shot that draws nothing but air.
(He sent that one back) Air-mail Special!: A strongly-blocked shot, often sent high into the stands.
Bloooows the layup! : Missed a very easy layup.
Boo-birds: Fans who boo their own team when they play badly.
(He did the) bunny hop in the pea patch: He was called for traveling.
(You could) call it with Braille: An easy call for an official, e.g. a blatant foul.
(He got) caught with his hand in the cookie jar: A reaching foul.
(The) Charity Stripe: The free-throw line.
(He's got 'em) covered like the rug on your floor: Really good one-on-one defense.
(They) couldn't beat the Sisters of Mercy: The team is getting beat badly.
(They) couldn't throw a pea into the ocean: The team's shooting is really awful.
(It'll) count if it goes ...: A player shoots just before the buzzer. It go-o-o-oes! (if the shot is successful)
(That shot) didn't draw iron: A shot which misses the rim, but hits the backboard.
Dime store score: A 10 to 5 score
Dribble-drive: A player drives the basket while dribbling.
Finger roll: A shot where the ball rolls off the shooter's fingers.
(He) fly-swatted (that one): A shot blocked with force and authority.
Football score: A score resembling one often seen in a football game (e.g., 21 to 14).
(He threw up a) frozen rope: A shot with a very flat trajectory.
(We're) high above the western sideline: Chick's perch at the Fabulous Forum, from which he called his word's eye views of the game.
Hippity-hops the dribble: A player dribbling the ball does a little hop step.
I'll bet you an ice-cream: Hearn and Keith Erickson (his one-time color commentator) often bet ice creams on the outcome of a shot or game.
(He's got) ice-water in his veins: When a player hits a clutch free-throw.
(It's) garbage time: The (often sloppily-played) remainder of the game (after itโs in the refrigerator).
Give and Go: A player passes the ball, makes a quick cut, and receives a return pass.
(In & out,) heart-brrrreak!: A shot that appears to go in, but rattles off the rim and misses. Sometimes it went in so far you could read the Commissioner's name from below.
He has two chances, slim and none, and slim just left the building: The player has no chance of success with this play.
If that goes in, I'm walking home: Similar to a prayer, when the opponent shoots a shot that is a prayer, a streak, or some amazing shot. (Usually on the road)
Leapin' Lena: A shot made while the player is in the air and off balance.
(There are) lots of referees in the building, only three getting paid: The entire crowd acts as though they are the officials by disagreeing with a call.
The mustard's off the hot dog: A player attempts an unnecessarily showy, flashy play which ends up in a turnover or is otherwise unsuccessful.
Nervous time: When the final moments of a game are pressure-packed.
94-by-50 hunk of wood: Simply put, a basketball court's dimensions. (Attacking 47 feet: The front court.)
No harm, no foul(no blood, no ambulance, no stitches): A non-call by an official when varying degrees of contact have occurred. More adjectives means the non-call was more questionable.)
Not Phi Beta Kappa: Simply put, not a smart play.
...Since Hector was a pup A very long time (e.g., the Lakers haven't had the lead since Hector was a pup.)
He's in the Popcorn Machine (with butter and salt all over him): Meaning that a defensive player got faked into the air by an offensive player's pump fake.
(He's) on him like a postage stamp: Very tight defense, simply put.
Slam dunk!: Hearn's most famous phrase; a powerful shot where a player forces the ball through the rim with one or both hands.
(He) takes him to the third floor and leaves him at the mezzanine: A move where an offensive player pump-fakes a defender and draws a foul from the leaping player.
This game's in the refrigerator: the door is closed, the lights are out, the eggs are cooling, the butter's getting hard, and the Jello's jigglin'!: The game's outcome is set; only the final score is in question.
Throws up a brick: When a player tosses up a particularly errant shot.
Throws up a prayer (... it's answered!!!): A wild shot that will need a miracle to score (and does).
Ticky-tack: A foul called when very little contact has been made.
Triple-double: A player gets 10 or more (i.e. double digits) in three statistical categories: points, rebounds, assists, steals or blocked shots.
(On his) wallet: A player fell on his rear end.
Words-eye view: What listeners received while listening to Hearn call the game on the radio.
(He's) working on his Wrigleys. A player is chewing gum.
(He's) yo-yo-ing up and down: A player is standing there dribbling the ball up and down as if it was a yo-yo on a string.
********************************
Nicknames for Laker players:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Cap, The Captain, Big Fella
Kobe Bryant: The Kid
Cedric Ceballos: Garbage Man
Michael Cooper: Secretary of Defense
Rick Fox: Foxy
Gail Goodrich: Stumpy (because of his height) This nickname, frequently used by Hearn, was actually given to Goodrich by teammate Elgin Baylor.
Magic Johnson: Buck
Shaquille O'Neal: Big Fella
Kurt Rambis: Blue-collar Kurt, Clark Kent (because of his safety glasses)
Jerry West: Mr. Clutch, Zeke from Cabin Creek
James Worthy: Big Game James
Nick Van Exel: Nick the Quick, Nick Van Excellent
Sedale Threatt: Thief of Baghdad
Eddie Jones: Fast Eddie, The Pickpocket
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 09:53 PM
AK/BK:
"Frontier Airlines - Bling, Bling!"
"NetFlix - Bling, Bling!"
"Time-Warner Cable - Bling, Bling!"
I just realized that we are making money for you every time that we refresh the screen looking for new posts. What a gig, guys. Bling, Bling!
haha.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 29, 2006 at 09:56 PM
KG is not coming to the Lakers.
Posted by: Ken | August 29, 2006 at 10:06 PM
How can nobody mention Sedale Threatt? He carried the Lakers during the dark days following Magic's retirement. His midrange jumper from the elbows was automatic and one of the sweetest I've ever seen. Ceballos and Nick were flashy, but Threatt was why the Lakers made the playoffs when they shouldn't have stood a chance. If there's a plaque or ring of honor, Sedale deserves to be there. Does no one remeber the the Threatt for president signs?
Posted by: David | August 29, 2006 at 10:18 PM
LakerTom-
Trust me, if we got paid by the comment, there would be three or four times more per day than there are. I'd have a wall of computers generating infinite IP addresses, all looped to leave stuff on the site. I'm afraid we disagree with you out of the kindness of our own hearts (hahahaha).
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | August 29, 2006 at 10:29 PM
Saga, I think the difference was, Joe D was actually the best player on a team that won a championship. He won an MVP of the finals for a reason. Coop never did that. Dumars was a star player, Coop was a role player. That's the difference.
Posted by: Michael A | August 29, 2006 at 10:34 PM
Niketh, I hate to say you're wrong but... you've got ot be joking if you think Horry was better than Barkley or Patrick Ewing. No offence to Robert, but there wasn't a GM in the league who would have taken him over those two. You're talking about two Dream Team members, two HOFs, two guys on the top 50 list... what are you talking about? Barkley won an MVP, for goodness sake, and it could be argued he deserved more than one.
And to tell the truth, when Robert was in houston, he hit some very big shots. As did Sam Cassell, Mario Elie, kenny Smith, Clyde Drexler... oh yeah, and some big goof named Hakeem. The latter was the heart of that team, to say it was Rob is an interesting interpretation of reality, but not one that bears scrutiny.
Posted by: Mi | August 29, 2006 at 10:41 PM
LakerTom,
You turned wild with your posts but WOW, you are a walking Laker enclopedia. Where are you getting all these informations? This is a primer to Laker history especially on those Chickism and NBA itself. Do you have a picture of Chick that was distributed after his death? I framed it and it's in my office. LakerTom, the K-Bros are no longer posting, they're fuming mad since you exposed the little secret of the gold pit. Just keep on posting, forget the bling bling!!!
AAron Pols....of Kansas,
Great, you found this blog. Historically, you should be loyal to the Kings which moved to Sacramento but they are not winning. I can tell you there are millions more like you (worldwide)who are die hard Laker fans who just cannot participate in the blog. If Kobe did not have his surgery, he will be the most popular player in the Team USA not only because he is Kobe but because he is a Laker. One country I can mention is the Philippines, a third world country but people there will miss the suffer just to watch the Laker games. Many more in USA are not joining because they have no time for the blog or does not have the proficiency in writing and prefers to call radio sportscasters. What we gained in this blog was a lost of revenue of daily newspapers. Would you believe there are people whose first interest in reading the LA Times is go for sports page and look for any tiny news about the Lakers?
Now that there is a blog that will educate us compliments of LakerTom! I nominate LakerTom to represent us as our role player in creating bandwagons and as a Laker Historian.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | August 29, 2006 at 10:59 PM
hello?
shoutout to T-fuzzz
I agree w/laker tom .sasha will win the dunk contest and will start at PG
Farmar will probably play in d-league
But on a good note, he'll probably win 6th man
Posted by: p. diddy | August 29, 2006 at 11:30 PM
Does the team have to win a championship in order for the role players to make the list?
Because, I think of guys like Nick the Quick, who kept Angelinos in the seats while Buss and West were busy rebuilding the franchise while no one was looking. He is as important to our recent successes as the role players who actually played during the championship years. Plus, he does have ring(s), now. So, you can say he's championship calibre.
Do you think West could have pulled off those acquisitions of Shaq and Kobe if the Nick Lakers weren't over-acheiving on a yearly basis, keeping the games fun and lively and earning Dr. Buss a nice profit in the process?
Gotta put Nick. I'm thinking maybe Vlade as well. Jones, don't think he did enough. He was awfully inconsistent while we had him. Though, I bet he'd make the list for Miami, wouldn't he? Nick would definately make the list in San Antonia. I remember he was the real MVP for several of the Spurs tighter games down the stretch.
Horry makes the list for three teams, doesn't he? Dude has had a *SICK* career!
My list (pending)
McAdoo
Scott
Thompson
Van Exel
Vlade
Horry
AC
Fox
Shaw
Coop
Nixon
--Fearless
PS: I think Coop is a borderline HOF. He would make the honorable mention list if the HOF had one.
Posted by: Fearless | August 30, 2006 at 01:14 AM
WiZo,
You are right about West having to trade Van Exel. Plus people forget that he was money the year he got his ring. He is a LOT better than he got treated. He is sort of a victim of circumstance. But, he certainly make his lemons into lemonade and made it to the Promised Land, didn't he?
That's got to earn him some points, just for sticking it out.
--Fearless
Posted by: Fearless | August 30, 2006 at 01:18 AM
Tom,
Oh My GOD. Those Chickisms constitute the BEST post any person has ever made to any blog!
Serious. Thanks! I needed that.
--Fearless
Posted by: Fearless | August 30, 2006 at 01:36 AM
Staying up for the Greece-France game. Greece is up 63-46 with 8 minutes in the 4th, while Greece has taken 22 threes...and made 6. OUCH
Don't want to jinx anything, but BRING ON THE USA!!!
(Greece is going to lose by 20 to the U.S. in the next round if they advance to the semis).
Ronny Turiaf update:Not a good sign, but he already has 4 fouls
Posted by: greek dude | August 30, 2006 at 02:09 AM
Ronny has 4 points as of now
Posted by: greek dude | August 30, 2006 at 02:10 AM
Oh Yeeaahhhhh!!!
Greece spanked France 73-56, after outscoring France only 12-8 in the 1st quarter. Next round, bring on the USA. Although Greece will get slaughtered, the only way to win is to shoot lights out 3's and suffocating D. Considering they shot 7-24, it's not likely.
Ronny Turiaf update: Fouled out with 2 minutes left, 13 minutes, 6 rebs, 1 ast, 5 fouls, 2-2 fg. Looks like he was pretty efficient(2-2fg, 6 boards), but maybe played out of control.
Go USA!!!(except tomorrow night, 7-0)
Go Greece!!!(7-0)
Go Lakers!!!(were 45-37, will be 48-34)
Posted by: greek dude | August 30, 2006 at 02:28 AM
Laker Tom - rocks great history- super Chick-isms!
This place is awesome but you are definitely in this Blog hall of shame - especially for those crazy predictions about Farmar! I sure hope you are right- we need a huge miracle this season.
Posted by: Peter Maguire | August 30, 2006 at 02:40 AM
How about a walk of the stars? Or maybe better, since the Lakers are the first in everything, our own "L_HOF" (Lakers' Hall of Fame) at the Staples Center. There can also be a "Ring of Notables" with all "Lakers' Greats" flashing their names and numbers in the opponents faces during home games.
- Herb ->
Posted by: Herb | August 30, 2006 at 07:23 AM
August is boring ... yessir it iz
http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_18558.shtml
In Kobe we Trust,
Go Lakers
Posted by: Taliq | August 30, 2006 at 07:40 AM
We already have an example of what to do, just look at the banner for the Minneapolis dynasty. We should have 2 additional banners, 1 for the 80's dynasty, and 1 for the 3peat teams. It would recognize the coach, and the outstanding role players. For the 80's: Riley, Coop, Doo, Rambis, Silk, AC, and Nixon. The 3peat would be: Jackson, Harper, Shaw, Horry, DFish, and Fox. These role players shouldn't have their #'s retired like the HOF'ers, but they should be recognized for the dynasties they were a part of.
Posted by: Nick | August 30, 2006 at 08:09 AM
Da 1 Rejekt,
With all due respect, come can you possibly question Worthy's number being retired??? Just look at his NBA resume...
Apologies, but you struck something of a chord with me in that remark. I think it's one of the biggest travesties - as a Laker and basketball fan - that Big Game is not given his due simply because he played alongside the Cap and Buck. James Ager Worthy was one of the best ever to play at his position - Riles said that there was no one who could touch him in his prime... I felt the same way that Marcus did when the man wasn't invited to be on the Dream Team (which, I guess can be justified, regardless of my extreme dislike for Scottie Pippen).
As a first time blogger who appreciates this forum and its members, I wanted to specifcally extend my gratitude to folks like Xodus, Andrew Z, WiZo, Mike T., LakerTom, and sonnybelfast (except when the latter 3 get hung up on their particular Laker, good or bad), as I have great respect for your knowledge on the game, and genuinely look forward to reading each of your posts.
Obviously, much thanks to the K bros. for providing such a pleasant distraction to the day. I'd love to buy you a round of beer if I ever get a chance to meet you personally.
JT
Posted by: James T. | August 30, 2006 at 08:47 AM
If role players did get some special recognition, at least this would give Von Wafer some incentive, so I'm all for it!
Posted by: Kobe is a Team Player | August 30, 2006 at 09:08 AM
โKnowใThyใEnemyโ
good idea richdadclakerfan, AK BK
AK/BK
do you guys have any plans to give this blog any insider stuff anytime soon, like you know a interview with Farmar where you say LakerTom wants to marry you and that SonnyBelfast will gladly perform the ceremony. . .haha
actually a Know Thy Enemy sounds good
(seriously with 24 teams left to do, at 4 teams a go thats still 6 posts to spread out over 70 days, or 1 per every 11.5 days (1 per 9 days if you do 3 a post)
i dont know why i just did that. . .i really hate math
Posted by: joninjapan | August 30, 2006 at 09:09 AM
All these posts and only one mention of Vlade? Here are a few reasons Divac should be a part of the "Ring of Honor" or "Display Case of Celebrities" or whatever we're calling the not-ready-for-jersey-retirement-players.
1) Vlade was one of the best passing centers in the league.
2) He was one of the first European players in this era to make an impact in the NBA, opening the door for many others.
3) The Flop was pristine. Hey, it ain't a flop if it gets called, and 7 times out of 10 he got the foul.
4) We got to the playoffs with him and little else.
5) He agreed to the trade which sent him packing and brought Kobe. His contract allowed him to veto the thing, but he went along with it.
6) Longevity and productivity. When Divac's abilities started to wan, so did the fortunes of the Kings. But his veteran peskiness with that team gave even Shaq headaches.
Also, kudos to whoever mentioned Threatt. He was a terrific talent, and nobody could stop him when he went to his left.
Finally, echoing others, thanks for the Chick-isms. Chick WAS the Los Angeles Lakers, and I'm thankful for every video I taped of Laker games with him broadcasting. Great centers, guards and forwards will come and go, but there will never be another Chick Hearn.
--MWN
Posted by: Marty | August 30, 2006 at 09:41 AM
If you include Brian Shaw or Ron Harper in a Ring of Fame, you have to include players like Darrel Imhoff, Rudy LaRusso, Mel Counts, Walt Hazzard, and Kermit Washington, unless you are only including those who won championships in LA, then you might include Mark Landsberger and Happy Hairston.
Posted by: rdlee | August 30, 2006 at 09:51 AM
LakerTom:
Speaking of drafting Magic and Worthy, remember how both were controversial picks at the time? People thought the Lakers should take Sidney Moncrief instead of Magic because the Lakers already had Norm Nixon at point. Also there was a lot of debate about the Lakers drafting Worthy instead of Terry Cummings or Dominique Wilkins. Even though Bird won ROY over Magic and Cummings won ROY over Worthy, we did OK :)
Posted by: rdlee | August 30, 2006 at 09:56 AM
Now I got a new topic for everybody.....
NAME YOUR 5 FAVORITE PLAYERS WHO STILL PLAYS TODAY! (1 being most favorite)
and I dont mean who you think its the top 5 players in the league.... just personal favorites.
________________________________________
I'll start it off..
1. Lamar Odom
2. Tim Duncan
3. Kobe
4. AK 47
5. Amare
Posted by: The Lamar Show | August 30, 2006 at 10:28 AM
Welcome back LO Show! Haven't seen you here for a while.
1. Kobe
2. Lamar
3. Chris Paul
4. Sasha!!!
5. Ray Allen/Michael Redd (love the long range 3's)
honerable mention:Chris Mihm(booyah, Mike T!) LOL!
Posted by: greek dude | August 30, 2006 at 11:01 AM
Lamar Show,
I'll rank mine in order of people I love to watch play. Not sure I have any emotional attachment to them or would buy their jersey, but I'll sit through Charles Barkley mumbling about defense and Kenny Smith's suit for ten minutes to watch them play on TV.
1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Nash
4. AI
5. Sam Cassell (becasue he might do the "big nuts" dance if he hits a clutch shot).
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 30, 2006 at 11:29 AM
1. Kobe
2. Bynum
3. Farmar
4. KG
5. LeBron
Hmm... looks like a good starting lineup in '08
Posted by: rdlee | August 30, 2006 at 11:35 AM
No question that Cooper should be on every list and his number hanging from the Staples rafters. I also have to go to bat for NICK. I know he went out a*z backwords in the end with the famous 1-2-3 Cancun chant. But for the team he was on and the lonely years after Magic, when we had Nick, Campbell, and Eddie Jones (ala before Shaq). Nick wore the Purple and Gold with pride. The same pride some of us real fans still show. Nick got into to trouble because he knew what it ment to be a LAKER! Ready to play, fighting to the end, actually he had the one thing that I didn't see in Smush last year, that true pride and realization of where he was and what the organization means across the NBA, not just L.A. Smush was more concerned about a contract and his whips a.k.a the Smushcalade. The new guys spend more time at 310 motoring trickin' out their trucks than in the gym perfecting their game. Atleast D. Wade won both the King of bling car contest an a NBA RING... As for WORTHY, he deserves it totally! Don't know what you were watching if you didn't see Big GAME JAMES in ACTION! Even at North Carolina he was the man, not JORDAN! So check yo self on that one. DAVE, I remember the Threat signs, also remember Magic gave up some pay to bring in Threat, (restructed his contract to make room) Something you don't see happening today.
LAKER LOVE
Posted by: LakerFaze | August 30, 2006 at 11:39 AM
It was very difficult to narrow it down to my 5 favorites (Non lakers), but here it is:
1. Carmelo Anthony
2. Jason Kidd
3. Allen Iverson
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Shaquille O'Neal
Honorable mention: Grant Hill, Arroyo, Billups, Caron Butler, Duncan, D. Howard, J. O'neal, Chris Paul, Amare, & Telfair.
Of course my #1 favorite player (& best baller on the planet) is Kobe. My favorite Lakers are: Kobe, Odom, Kwame and Smush.
Posted by: Blaze1bx | August 30, 2006 at 12:02 PM
1. Kobe (The best)
2. Lamar (I like his attitude and I think he is going to come up for us in a major way this year)
3. Melo (I think he is on the wrong team but will be one of the top 10 for a long time to come)
4. Garnett (Everyone knows about KG)
5. Wade (Dude shot a crazy % in the playoffs last year, and the way he crashes the boards is pretty sick--anyone who can put up with Shaq's ego crap and smile at the same time...)
Posted by: Marcus | August 30, 2006 at 12:19 PM
Andrew Z,
LOVE the "big nuts" dance.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 30, 2006 at 12:41 PM
1. Kobe
2. Gilbert Arenas
3. KG
4. Baron Davis
5. Lebron
Honorable mention: Marcus Williams New Jersey ( because I watched him play as a kid :0)
Posted by: Anthony Winston | August 30, 2006 at 12:46 PM
The fans who never got to see Big Game James play missed a special player. In my mind's eye where memory resides, I can still see James Worthy having taken off, skywalking, soaring in mid-flight to traumatize opponents with a thunderous tomahawk dunk.
A Worthy dunk could silence entire arenas, including opposing commentators, sucking the all the oxygen and energy out of opposing team's fans. At one point his mid-range jumper was the closest thing to automatic, and his quick hands and quicker feet alone forced some opposing power forwards to refuse passes.
Worthy was a rare combination of power and speed, quickness and muscle, agility and strength, size and athleticism. The troika of Magic, Kareem and Worthy was sublime.
I believe that in today's diluted NBA a troika like that would've been unbeatable.
Posted by: Glenn | August 30, 2006 at 12:51 PM
Kobe if course
Carmelo
LeBron
Wade
AI
and there has to be honorable mention
Shaq
KGarnett
Tim Duncan
Steve MVP Nash
Dirk Nowitski
Ray Allen
Elton Brand
Dwight Howard
Paul Pierce
Manu Ginobli
Vince Carter
Tracy McGrady and Yao
...and for just plain entertainment Earl Boykins, he is a trip, unreal how well he plays at times against his own shortcomings.
Hope you are all aware Lamar doesn't even make it close to someone I think is in the upper echelon of the NBA. Wasted talent at this point in time, he has to have a great year or this guy is going to get traded. Another guy who is great in his own right but doesn't make me want to run and go see him is Artest. I think Jermaine ONeal is definitely the best Pacer of this decade.
It is intersting that the best team in the NBA - in my opinion - the Pistons don't have one huge stand out - a lot of great players and a team concept. They needed Larry Brown - that team was way too good to get spanked like that. Coaching was the difference. He plated them all too much and didn't learn to develop the benchs confidence.
Posted by: Peter Maguire | August 30, 2006 at 12:57 PM
MY TOP 5 FAV non-Lakers
1. Alonzo Mourning (CLASS GUY, tough competitor, and takes NO DAYS OFF
2. Kevin Garnett -- HARD not to LIKE, he does everything for the sake of the "team"
3. Kirk Heinrich (dudes got SKILLZ and a crazy handle) I sooo wanted to Lakers to snatch him up, but any ole wayz
4. Ron Ron (Artest) QUEENS Native, what can I say, dude is SICK literally and figuratively, LOL
5. Lebron (though I hate that he's annointed the best in the game by some of the pundits), I do believe he's truly gifted but I admire that he formulates his own opinions about the different players in the league, most notably KOBE. He's good maybe even Great to some degree but he's not the BEST just YET.
Posted by: lakersrydeordie | August 30, 2006 at 01:00 PM
Here are my top 5 favorite players in the league today:
1. Kobe (I've been a Kobe fan since he first came into the league, I feel like I've grown up with him lol)
2. Kirk Hinrich (I love his game and his toughness, I'vee been a fan of his since his Kansas days).
3. D-Wade (I love his efficiency--despite his occassional flopping--and being from Miami, I've gotta be a fan of the most exciting player ever to grace the Miami Heat)
4. Lamar Odom (I've been a fan of his since he played for the Heat. I love his unselfishness and I think he can be a multiple time all star)
5. Amare (The guy was an absolute stud before his injury, I hope he can pick up where he left off).
Posted by: Xodus | August 30, 2006 at 01:03 PM
wiZO,
"1-2-3-CANCUN!"
Do you really believe that Jerry was that bitter? or was that sarcasim?
>_<
Posted by: dan the man >_< aka smushcalade | August 30, 2006 at 01:06 PM
Herb:
I actually think your idea for a Lakers Hall of Fame is not bad. It would give the team a way to recognize role players who made big contributions to the team without diminishing the importance of those few elite players whose numbers were retired or who were in the Basketball Hall of Fame. And I like your idea of a Walk of Stars, ala Hollywood Blvd. It gets my vote for the best suggestion yet. Hope to see you post more. Thanks.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 30, 2006 at 01:07 PM
For my top 5, the list goes like this :
1. Kobe ('nuff said)
2. KG (guy has heart, and definitely deserves better)
3. Melo (is it me or he's leading the way for Team USA ?)
4. Chris Paul (a chance to become the greatest point guard EVER. Well, at least he'll come second only to Magic, but Magic wasn't a true PG)
5. Tim Duncan (hope he'll get better soon, 'cause he doesn't dominate the way he did 3 years ago)
Saga
Posted by: Saga | August 30, 2006 at 01:14 PM
Peter Maguire:
It was really fun reading all of those Chick-isms, although it made me misty eyed thinking about Chick and how much I miss him. I wonder what Chick would be saying about Farmar right nowโฆHold on, I just got a supernatural call from Chick on his new Cellestial cell phone from Laker Heaven:
โWow, ChickโฆIs it really you? GreatโฆI didnโt know they had cell towers in Heavenโฆ Yeah, technology is a โSlam Dunk.โ โฆYeah, you really got a โWordโs Eye Viewโ of everything now... Huh, tell โem not to worry about โThe Kid II,โ heโs got โIce Waterโ in his Veins? Oh, you mean FarmarโฆOK, I willโฆ What? You mean โThe Kid IIโ is on the way to help โThe Kidโ save the day! Wow, thatโs great news, Chick!
โUh, say, could you maybe put a word in with Phil, you know how he is about Rookies? You will, great. Oh, you donโt know whether he will listen to youโฆ Yeah, I know he is stubborn as a mule. Why donโt โฆ Yeah, thatโs a great idea. He really hates Red. Yeah, I agree. Thatโs the way to get him to wise up. Thanks, Chick. โ
โWhat? Say, Hi, to the blog. I will do that for sure, Chick. We love youโฆYou, too? Iโll tell all of them the sameโฆKeep in touch, Chick, OK. Great, Iโll look forward to itโฆOK, I know you have a lot of other calls to makeโฆReally, heโs next? Great, tell โThe Kid IIโ to really work hard on his defense and shooting, OK โฆReally, like a postage stamp? Yeah, I love his Finger Rolls and Leapinโ Lenas, tooโฆ Love you too, Chick. Youโll get back to us with some trade ideas next week. OK, no Darius Miles trades. Great, Iโll let everyone know. Ok, Thanks, ChickโฆTalk to you then. Bye. โ
You heard it first, straight from Chick in Heaven to the Lakers Blog (with a little help from LakerTom. More to come.)
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 30, 2006 at 01:32 PM
Hey Lamar Show - Let's take this a step further, how about TOP 5 PLAYERS/COACHES WE Don't Like (HATER LIST)
1. Shaq ( I was raised to forgive and forget but I just cannot seem to let this go) that's why ShaqDummy tops my list
2. DWade ( He's a d@ck r%yd@r, so no, I don't care for him (d@mn I dont even know him but you feel me? He's too perfect nah mean? Hmph. Much like how the media once portrayed KOBE..
3. Raja Bell (if there was way I could ring his bell, I mos def would!
4. RILES -- he str8t played LA -- nuff said!
5. D'Antonio -- that look he gets -- need I say more?
I could easily come up with more but this should suffice. lol (This is what this blog has come to, hurry up already season 06-07!
Posted by: lakersrydeordie | August 30, 2006 at 01:34 PM
Big ups to the lamar show and lakersrydeordie,
Favorite top five:
5. Earl Boykins- its like watching the game in fast forward!
4. D.Wade- not quite kobe, but still fun to watch.
3. L.O.- a one man wrecking crew!
2. K.G.- too damn good!
1.Kobe- nuff said.
Least Favorite top five.
5. Isaiah Thomas- dude, I know your smarter than that. or r u?
4. Ray Allen- he covered his ass and made up with Kobe, but...
3. Jason Kidd - you can ball, but I'd still wup ya if I saw your wife-beating ass on the street!!
2. Raja Bell- nuff said
1. Ricky Davis - I don't know if it was that triple-double he tried to steal a couple of years back, but I just don't like him.
>_<
Posted by: dan the man >_< aka smushcalade | August 30, 2006 at 01:47 PM
Taliq:
Thanks for the link to Ericโs post. Couple of points that I think are worth highlighting:
โThe Lakers are a top ten team.โ
โWith Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant, the Lakers will always be a threat.โ
โIt doesn't appear that a trade is even percolating.โ
โChris Mihm is already said to be 100% recovered from his.โ
โGiving up a player with Bynum's potential for Harrington would probably have been a mistake.โ
โUntil Bynum is ready to play significant minutes, LA will want to make sure they have enough big bodies up front.โ
โAlthough Laker GM Mitch Kupchak has yet to hit a home run, the Lakers had a 12-year gap between the 1988 and 2000 championships when the legendary Jerry West ran the team.โ
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 30, 2006 at 01:49 PM
Top five players in the league:
1) Kobe
2) LeBron
3) AI
4) D Wade
5) Dirk
My All NBA 1st, 2nd, 3rd Team:
PG - AI, S Nash, T Parker
SG - Kobe, D Wade. R Allen
SF - LeBron, T MAC, Melo'
PF - Dirk, KG, Amare
C - T Duncan, B Wallace, The "Used" Diesel
Posted by: LakerReg | August 30, 2006 at 01:53 PM
Rdlee:
Maybe my memory is finally starting to go but I just donโt remember any controversy related to picking either guy. Could be the start of senioritis.
All I do remember was the rest of the league being p!ssed that the Lakers were going to get Magic and the Celtics Bird and totally p!ssed that the Lakers were going to get Worthy right after winning the NBA championship.
What brain supplement have you been taking, rd?
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 30, 2006 at 01:53 PM
Joninjapan:
Haha. Sorry, but I am already married and sonny and I unfortunately do not believe in the same religion.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 30, 2006 at 01:54 PM
Laker Tom,
Are we having another senior moment?(j/k)..lol.
>_<
Posted by: dan the man >_< aka smushcalade | August 30, 2006 at 01:59 PM
Lakersrydeordie,
My top 5 Hater list;
1. Vince Carter - Jealous of kobe whines on every call everytime they play the Lakers.
2. Gary Payton - a good player, but when he was with the Lakers, he sulked while we went down in flames in the Finals!.
3. Raja Bell - Kobe should have just clocked him. He didn't and we lost anyway, while he grinned and got more attention.
4. D george - 10 mil the past 2 years! he just did not care, and did not help at all in the playoffs. He sux.
5. Shaq - Game 1; I'll ignore Kobe. Game 2; I'll make up with Kobe because its MLK day and Bill Russell told me to. This guy is stupid, if he wanted to stay with the Lakers, just sign the extension. what has he made? 300 million.
Posted by: Ken | August 30, 2006 at 02:00 PM
If the question is the best (or dream) starting five playing today?
Then i will go with
1. Iverson - like his game, he should pass more
2. Kobe - The man can play with anyone, anywhere in any era.
3. Lebron - got to give the man his due, he is a unique talent.
4. KG - more versatile and a better rebounder than Amare
5. Tim Duncan - A natural back to the basket center that can step out and shoot with range
Posted by: The Troll | August 30, 2006 at 02:11 PM
With all due respect to AK and BK, a debate involving "role players" is really not much of a debate since the term "role player" is a new generation term, that only applies to the current generation. It was not until the Chicago Bulls Dynasty, that the term "role player" began to be used. Before that time, no one ever classified players as role players.
Based on the mentality implored today for prefessional basketball teams, every team has its stars and every team has its role players. However, that was never an issue back in the day. In fact, talk of role players versus stars back then would have only caused problems as players were players, all expected to do their part in order to win titles. A distinction between the two was never discussed even if it could be seen from a fans' perspective. It is this talk of stars and role players that has lead to the demise of the league as we know it. That is why players request such high salaries. Every team has bought into this system where they must have stars and role players. No one ever talked about that before. I would like to cite 3 teams as examples of how things were handled back then. You will notice that with each team several players have already been inducted into the HOF and others are most likely still to be added.
The 1960 Celtics - Each of the five starters-Frank Ramsey, Tom Heinsohn, Bill Russell, Bill Sharman, and Bob Cousy-averaged better than 15 points, and Auerbach had a bench that included Sam Jones & K. C. Jones. All 7 of those men are in the Hall-O-Fame now. Who would you consider as the role players on that team?
The 1984 Sixers - Lineup included Julius Erving, Bobby Jones, Moses Malone, Andrew Toney, Maurice Cheeks, and Charles Barkely. All of these players are either current or future HOFers.
The 1972 Knicks - Roster was talent-laden with the likes of Walt Frazier, Dick Barnett, Willis Reed, Dave DeBusschere, Bill Bradley & Earl Monroe. Once again, a roster full of HOFers.
That was just 3 rosters, however, I could identify several more which were full of HOFers. My point is that, before recent years, it was never even an issue as to the worth of players. Many players were important, not just a few key ones and a host of "role players". The key to it all is that, you won't find overly impressive numbers by all of the players I have listed. At times they shined, and at times they didn't, in order to win championships. Yet they always were important and equally deserving of their HOF honors.
Posted by: JJ | August 30, 2006 at 02:15 PM
LakerTom sees dead people.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 30, 2006 at 02:22 PM