He's No Kazaam
I like Luke Walton. Very nice guy. Improved a lot in the second half of last season. High hoops IQ. And absolutely zero threat whatsoever to the throne of Jack, Denzel, Leo and the rest of Hollywood that shows up regularly to watch him play. You could make a serious argument he wasn't very convincing playing himself. Of course, you could also make a serious argument he may just have been phoning this puppy in. But either way, as long as he had fun.
And on the positive side, at least we know Luke hasn't forgone off-season workouts in favor of intensive theatrical training. He should be in excellent shape come October.
By the way, did anybody happen to catch the entire episode? Was there even a shred of context established or does Luke Walton just happen to show up while pretty boy is shooting hoops by himself? Kind of reminds me of when celebrities pop by Springfield on "The Simpsons."
(Thanks to "Eric" for the link. BK and I had planned on reviewing his performance in live blog format, but forgot the date. As it turns out, with the 1 minute, 37 seconds running time, we simply spared everyone the most anti-climactic real time gathering ever).
AK
Laker Tom,
"I am constantly amazed that you just don't get it when it comes to Laker fans getting Kobe's back."
No, I totally get it. What I was asking with this question is whether that's more or less unconditional in all cases. Apparently, it must be. And that's fine. I just wanted to dig a little and see.
"It was actually insensitive for you to bring up the Suns' series in the context of this incident."
I think "insensitive" is a little strong. By merely making a comparison between identical circumstances and asking people to think about them for a second? There are worse things a person can do.
"And you can be sure somebody in the anti-Kobe press will find a way to spin it as Kobe's fault that Team USA lost and Kobe's fault that LeBronze and LeWade were poor sports."
While I seriously doubt anybody will actually blame Kobe for any lack of sportsmanship against Greece, I agree that Kobe's name will probably unfairly come up when the loss is discussed. And that's unfortunate. But there's nothing I can do about that, except not be one of those writers. The idea that Kobe would have been anything other than a positive addition to Team USA strikes me as silly. He might have been the difference in a Gold and a (hopeful) Bronze.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 01, 2006 at 05:47 PM
AK,
You're last response to justifing your Kobe post. I don't believe it. You just can't deal with your boys not representing.
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | September 01, 2006 at 05:51 PM
Mike T,
Thank you. I very much appreciate it.
And for what it's worth, I'm a big Tiger fan.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 01, 2006 at 05:52 PM
Mike T,
You're absolutely right that Lebron, Wade and all the rest didn't get it done. But that also has absolutely nothing to do with the question I asked.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 01, 2006 at 05:54 PM
AK,
It doesn't seem odd to you that in response to criticism of your boys Lebron and Dwade you immediately harken back to something Kobe did that was widely spun by the anti-Kobe press as negative? And then you justify it by saying you were just "digging a little." So you were just having a playful experiment with your beloved bloggers? Toying with their loyalties? Argue that this was an innocent study in sociology. On a Lakers blog? That recovery was weak.
Posted by: LucasinOhio | September 01, 2006 at 06:05 PM
sonny:
Let’s hope our Niners show more tonight than Team USA did against Greece. Because of our shared mutual respect, I will try to give you a serious answer to your question about my true feelings about the loss of Team USA to Greece.
First, I would have to admit that I am really a patriot at heart and have always rooted for my country to be successful. I am proud to be an American and would probably be considered to be an ultra conservative by some as a result, although I am actually more of a liberal when it comes to most social issues.
In the end, I’m not really happy that we lost but not surprised. I have never believed that a team of so-called superstars who practiced for a few weeks could be a sure winner in a sudden death tournament against greatly improved international teams that had played together for years. Even with Kobe Bryant, this team was not another version of the Dream Team.
While I respect both Jerry Colangelo and Mike Krzyzewski, I thought that the final team selected didn’t include enough quality defenders or shooters to guarantee a perfect march to the championship. I also thought that the loss of a proven defender and shooter in Kobe, an all-around facilitator in Lamar, and a top defender in Bowen left the team vulnerable.
After the loss, I admit to feeling a certain smug satisfaction that the young superstars from the 2003 draft, whom I believe have been unfairly elevated to superstardom by the anti-Kobe media, have proven that they were not up to getting the job done. I was enraged that some journalists had contended that not having Kobe was actually an advantage for the team and was gratified to see them proved wrong, in my opinion.
I think Kobe is entering a stage of his career where he realizes that he cannot win a championship by himself. He learned that firsthand the last two years and I believe you will continue to see him grow as a team leader this year as the Lakers move up in the rankings of top teams in the NBA. I am now looking forward to the Lakers winning the NBA championship by being a better team than their competitors and Kobe and Lamar then leading the USA to a vindicating gold medal in the 2008 Olympics in Beijing.
I was always a team player when I played basketball and have never been the kind of fan that liked all-star games, which is really how I viewed Team USA. Had Kobe and Lamar played, I would have Tivoed and watched the FIBA games. Since they did not play, I had no interest at all really in watching the games. I would have preferred watching a Lakers preseason game. So bottom line, your answer is that it was about Kobe and not really liking all-star teams play. Give me my UCLA Bruins or Los Angeles Lakers any day.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 01, 2006 at 06:13 PM
This is a little off the subject, but did anyone else watch the team USA defeat at the hands of Greece last night? It was a sad sad sight to see. However, I laughed out loud each time D Wade drove to the hoop, didn't get a call, and lost his cool. Welcome to what it's like to be Kobe every game he plays in the NBA "Mr. Finals MVP." I guess the international refs don't have an agenda to worry about... How are the sales of Team USA D Wade Jerseys doing anyway?
Posted by: James Big Game | September 01, 2006 at 06:14 PM
AK,
"I won't deny I'm a fan of both Wade and LBJ. They're great players. But me liking their gamnes has nothing to do with the issue. This was simply something that popped into my head that I wanted to ask people about. That's all. And I'll bring Kobe's name into any topic I feel like, thank you. As you often like to say, if you don't like it, don't read it."
What is this? Final admission of you favoring
Le Bron and D. Wade over Kobe? Why did it suddenly pop into your head? Unconsciously you were irritated that they (LBJ and D Wade) were being criticized for their unsportmanslike conduct overseas you had to counter it using Kobe? Well, there goes the biased or unbiased feeling of ambivalence.
Posted by: Lysander | September 01, 2006 at 06:18 PM
The sun series were the first time I remember Kobe never congratulating a team after they lost in the playoffs. I actually applaud him for not shaking their hands, I mean the boy got clothesline, and I did not remember a sun player really voicing that they was no room for that nonsense, instead, Nash the team leader kind off shrugged it off. No only that, Kobe was being Killed in the media about his game 6 play. When luke clotheslined Tim Thomas I remember lamar coming out and saying there was no room for that.
We lakers fan are bias, but so are the people that want to attack die hard lakers fan that put kobe first. Honestly, I don't even think it matters if they the US team or the lakers congratulated their opponents. After the game was over the greeK players went into their circle and started celebrating like if they won the gold medal already, why are you not asking about their sportmanship AK? When you are in the midst of a competitive game and a game that allows trash talking like bball, you lost you cool and forget to shake hands, so what.
Bottomline: Raja never apologized to kobe for clothelining and Kobe does not need to shake his or Nash, because if Nash was a real team leader he would have told Raja to apologize to him. Our lakers leader did their job by telling Luke what he did was wrong and Luke did not even intend to injure Tim Thomas.
Posted by: wow | September 01, 2006 at 06:23 PM
To be fair, Kobe wasn't the first thing I thought about when I read about the non-handshakes, but I think it's an interesting question nonetheless, and given all the talk, I figure I should get my take on it out there. Not that it's very complicated. If something is wrong, it's wrong, whether it's little league or the FIBA World Championships. I think there's no excuse for players not to congratulate another team after a loss in a series, or interational playoff alike. It's an interesting comparison. I'd say they're all wrong.
The performance of the team and the question Andy asked are two separate issues, I think. Maybe questions for a different day, but the issue came up, so why not ask now?
No question, the US didn't get it done, and no question Kobe would have helped (how arguably the league's most talented player, one who has showed he can defer if the game plan calls for it- Phoenix series anyone?- can only be a benfit), and no question DWIGHT HOWARD SHOULD HAVE PLAYED MORE!!! (sorry, that's another issue, too).
I still think it's amazing how some people seem to think appreciation for players is a zero sum game. As if there isn't enough love to go around. Thinking Kobe is a great player doesn't mean LeBron can't be a great player, too. Thinking Wade is great doesn't mean Kobe can't be great, too.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | September 01, 2006 at 06:29 PM
AK
Im not upset with either Kobe not shaking hands with Suns or team USA not shaking hands with the Greek team. The problem is how the media presents everything. I have yet to see anybody that talked about the game mention it. So why did Kobe get all the bad press but none of the USA players get any bad press let alone being mentioned. Kobe was wrong in not being the bigger man and congratulating the Suns (including Bell)and he got called out for it. So what about the USA team. I saw Melo stand there and watch the Greek team but all he did is STAND. There were a couple of players that congratulated but again the whole team (with exception of Melo) left the court in under 60 SECONDS. I dont care if Kobe gets called out for doing somethign wrong but if someone else does it (LIKE THE TEAM CAPTAINS) then they should be called out too. Its the only fair thing to do. Not only that but this is an international game where its viewed by ppl worldwide. The way the US represented America just enforces the belief that Americans are @$$holes. Its one thing to say Lakerfans are sore losers but this is saying all of Americans are sore losers. So now Americans will be viewed as very arrogant sore losers with bad sportsmanship. Mentioning Kobe in anythign other than positive light (ex. Kobe should help team USA in future) can only show how much the media hates Kobe. Last time team USA had the excuse that they lacked talent and were too young. This defeat falls squarely on the coaches and the players (not including Kobe). Its a disspointment with bad representation of Americans everywhere. Only time will tell how the media presents this to the fans.
Posted by: Shady | September 01, 2006 at 06:44 PM
Lysander,
"What is this? Final admission of you favoring
Le Bron and D. Wade over Kobe? Why did it suddenly pop into your head? Unconsciously you were irritated that they (LBJ and D Wade) were being criticized for their unsportmanslike conduct overseas you had to counter it using Kobe? Well, there goes the biased or unbiased feeling of ambivalence."
It popped into my head because the last time I saw an NBA player of any magnitude do that was Kobe against the Suns. I found the comparison interesting, so I asked. And as I said earlier, I have no problem with anybody criticizing LeBron or Wade for not shaking the Greek players' hands. I criticized Wade and LeBron for not shaking the Greek players' hands. But as I said before, I was curious about why Kobe fans wouldn't mind seeing it with him, but would be quick to point it out with others.
And like BK, I also don't view everything as a contest of Kobe vs. LeBron, Wade, Melo, etc. I think you can root Lakers and appreciate the game of non-Lakers. It doesn't diminish how great Kobe is to acknowledge that there are other dudes who can seriously ball as well. At least not in my mind.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 01, 2006 at 06:45 PM
AK:
“I'd like to congratulate you both for picking up on exactly what I was getting at. In truth, the question I posed has little or nothing to do with Kobe himself. It's about whether fans treat identical incidents the same way when it comes to him.”
First, these are not identical incidents. Any reasonable person would expect a greater level of sportsmanship between two teams representing their country and playing for free in a one-game series on the international stage than between two bitter rivals fighting for their professional lives in a hotly contested seven-game series filled with cheap shots and hot emotions.
Second, this is the Lakers Blog. Any reasonable person would expect the blog posters reading your comments to be biased in favor of Kobe and to be very sensitive to unfair criticism or comparisons involving Kobe, especially considering the great number of anti-Kobe press that even you have admitted exists.
I think you know how much I respect your opinion and the job that you and BK have done as moderators of the blog but I think that all that your “psychological” gambit accomplished as far as I am concerned was to frustrate your loyal bloggers and reinforce the feeling that you rarely back down even when you are wrong, especially whenever it involves Kobe.
The reason we come here to post and share information and opinions about our team and our heroes is because we do not want to hear more anti-Kobe commentary – or be “piqued” by you with little jabs at Kobe that really are unnecessary.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 01, 2006 at 06:47 PM
Shady,
I agree 100%. If these other guys didn't shake the Greek players hands, it should be acknowledged and called out by writers. Absolutely. And I've done my (relatively small) part in the media universe by saying what LeBron, Wade, et al were wrong in not doing so. Beyond that, I can't control the entire media. I can just let people know where I stand.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 01, 2006 at 06:51 PM
AK:
A big Tiger fan. You don't mean the Detroit Tigers, do you?
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | September 01, 2006 at 06:51 PM
BK,
It's not that LeBron, Wade, and Howard aren't going to be great. I think everyone understands that they will be great. What the issue is that they aren't great yet. I don't care what anyone says, James and Howard are just kids. They are no where near maturity as far as emotions go. Wade is that far ahead of them either. What I'm trying to say is that to put the fate of team USA in their hands was, to me, premature. They are not the best players in the NBA. Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace could have been effective. This is about international basketball, which at this point Kobe Bryant is a part of.
The fellas let us down! Whenever there is a letdown like this, you know there are going to be questions raised. Well, this team concept was sold to us on a commitment from the players involved. Well, with this let down are we going to stand by that commitment to the players? Are we still committed to Coach K? Or do we scrap this whole thing and start anew in '08?
If left to me I would stick with the commitment concept and bring back the same players. Well, with Kobe and Lamar, too, of course. I think it's important to stick to the commitment concept to show these young guys that the talking heads aren't just seeing this with a one way street type of mind-set. But if there is a change in approach then it should be from the top down. By that I mean the head of USA basketball and the coach, too.
I guess what I'm willing trying to say is: What's next for team USA in international competition.
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | September 01, 2006 at 06:52 PM
correction:
"They are not the best players in the NBA. Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace could have been effective. This is about international basketball, which at this point Kobe Bryant is not a part of."
Posted by: Michael Teniente | September 01, 2006 at 06:58 PM
Another correction:
"I guess what I'm really trying to say is: What's next for team USA in international competition."
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | September 01, 2006 at 07:02 PM
Khan,
Your 12:20am post sounds like a con!
>_<
Posted by: dan the man >_< aka smushcalade | September 01, 2006 at 07:04 PM
Awww BK, no need to help AK out. All bloggers love AK (I'm sure). Mike T just loves needling AK and Laker Tom tends to almost always agree with Mike and Faith. Otherwise this is the most productive (post wise),lively,much read sports blog there is.
Posted by: Lysander | September 01, 2006 at 07:10 PM
Laker Tom,
As I've already said, I think the incidents are identical. The Lakers-Suns wasn't the first playoffs in NBA history to get heated. I've seen plenty of "bad blood" series where players still shake and hug afterwards. I just don't buy that excuse.
I think anybody should know by now that I'm not going to ever bias myself "for" or "against" Kobe (or any Laker, for that matter). I simply call things like I see them. If readers don't like that, I'm sorry to disappoint, but BK and I have firmly established the tone of this blog by now. You know what you're getting into.
And while such a presentation perhaps might not be why you specifically read the blog, it may very well work just fine for others. I can't speak for everyone and neither can you. But in the end, if you try to please everybody, you usually end up pleasing nobody. Thus, I'm going to continue working very hard doing what BK and I think is the best.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 01, 2006 at 07:13 PM
Mike-
In regards to some of the players you mentioned, I'm not sure if all of them wanted to play. I don't know for sure about 'Sheed, but I seem to remember Ben Wallace saying he dind't want to play (let me know if I'm wrong), and therefore didn't get an invite. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I think with or without Kobe, there's enough talent in the US to win an international tournament, but never again will it be a given. The style of play on this side of the pond is different, etc. but most importantly, the world has caught up. Maybe not every country, but the advantages the US has in talent no longer makes up for the advantages other countries have- playing together, familiarity with the international game, on a game in game out basis. We're just not that much better than the world anymore. Dream Team I was probably better than this bunch, I'd say, but the biggest difference isn't with the quality of the US teams, but the opposition.
The original point I was trying to make wasn't so much about the future of the US Team (they should be kept together in the big group that was originally invited- the constant roster turnover is part of the problem). More that there are people who seem so conditioned to see Kobe hate in everything that anything positive said about another player becomes a silent indictment of Kobe, even when he's not mentioned. I understand why people were upset by AK's question (don't agree, but understand), but I was speaking about the larger issue.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | September 01, 2006 at 07:15 PM
Laker Tom,
Oh, and I meant Tiger Woods. Although this is the year to become a TigerS fan, I suppose.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 01, 2006 at 07:21 PM
BK,
I hear you. Even if LeBron, Wade, Howard, and Melo mature to excellent people and ballplayers, I agree, Olympic Gold is not a guarantee (You did say that, didn't you?). Let's face it, the world has caught up to us. Maybe not NBA style but, as you mentioned, international rules definitely favor teams like Spain, Greece, and others. This has gone past a wake-up call. We can no longer be considered the favorites in international play.
My have things changed.
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | September 01, 2006 at 07:30 PM
Mike T,
Now here, you and I are in total agreement. The days of waltzing into other countries and pushing them around are long since gone and may never return again.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 01, 2006 at 07:37 PM
I think an important point to highlight and emphasize, which many of the bloggers have already touched upon, is that Kobe was missing. But what was so important that was missing that only Kobe could bring?
Ever since MJ retired, it's become some kind of basketball obsession to annoint "the next one." The problem has become that MJ wasn't chosen. He made himself. He created the standard. Now, in today's NBA, year after year, another player is annointed. Not only that, he believes his own hype. These guys think thy are leaders just cause the stupid reporters looking for a story say they are. Just becuase you say you are something doesn't mean you are.
What this team was missing was a head on the floor, a true leader, like, for example, Kobe. He was not created by the media. Irronically, they have actually done more to push him down than help him up. More than any other guy on this squad, he has made himself. The Kobe legend is self-made. It's earned. He is a leader because he is a leader. He showed it. No one put him up to it, like a Lebron, like a Carmelo, like a D-Wade. The team lacked the leadership in the crunch that, whether the haters want to admit it or not, out of the whole list of guys, only Kobe has. He is the only one of these guys who has proven that he can take over a game and win it single-handedly. When he talks, others listen. He is the only real leader on the list.
This isn't a Kobe lovefest. I'm not even going to say that Kobe is the only guy who could have done it. Let's just say he is the example I chose. The point is of all the guys mentioned, none of them bring to the table what Kobe does, and that is just a fact. He is an actual leader. These other guys are creations of the media. None of these guys are the next MJ. They are not the next Kobe either.
B.
Thee Cali King
Posted by: Cali King | September 01, 2006 at 07:45 PM
Foed, Thnks for the info on baby-Shaq. $17M ain't chicken feed. I dis not realize that they paid this kind of money in Europe!
I'm learning.
Baywood
Posted by: Baywood | September 01, 2006 at 08:15 PM
AK
You are really disapointing us! Can't you get in your head the differance between our in-home actions against when we are on the world stage in this day and age?
LeBron and Wade disgraced as a nation.
What's so hard for you to understand?
Baywood
Posted by: Baywood | September 01, 2006 at 08:22 PM
BK, You blindly come to the defense of your brother! Where were you when this discussion started.
Can either one of you admit that there is a difference between the NBA and the US of A!
On the world stage, shouldn't we show some grace in defeat?
I knew that somebody would pick on Kobe! why does it to be AK/BK?
Baywood
Posted by: Baywood | September 01, 2006 at 08:37 PM
BEST IN THE WORLD??
I believe we still have the best players in the world in the NBA and in America. That is not the problem. The problem is the way our teams are built. We have Lebron,Wade, and Melo all playing the SG/SF position and why? Do we need 3 players that do the same thing? We didnt have a great defensive stopper (Battier is not a defensive monster), we didnt have a 3pt specialist, we didnt have a true power player and we lack a complete team with full understanding of fundamentals. Overall these players are great but they arent complete players. We were beat by a team taht used a basic play like the pick and roll (which is very effective) over and over again. These are supposed to be some of the "best" players we have and yet they couldnt stop a play that is used in ever single game. I guess some were saying "It doesnt matter if they use the pick and roll to shoot a 3 and make it. We get a great dunk on the other end" and because we didnt have great perimeter defenders to stop the 3 or a 3pt specialist to answer back we lost. Why do we need Melo,LeBronze, and Wade who are great players and do the same thing but none are specialists in any specific area? This team was on a mission and that mission was not to get the gold medal but to promote themselves. Why did they pick a kid like Hinrich instead of Bruce Bowen who would have been much more help bothering some of the 3pt shooter that killed us. I wouldnt be suprised if Argentina did the same thing to the US team that Greece did. As long as we keep the same squad I dont think we will be top contenders in the future. We need role players (what a suprise) that are there for their specific skills. I would rather have Bruce Bowen on the floor bothering the 3pth shooters than a guy whose gonna just gonna drive to the basket and get fouled only to miss freethrows. We need a team full of players that can do more than score. Til that happen we wont be seeign that gold medal.
Posted by: Shady | September 01, 2006 at 08:55 PM
AK/BK
One final thought on the subject. In the Kobe-not-congratuling the Suns episode that you HAD to bring out, I have one word for you: Raja Bell.
The Suns and their fans disgraced themselves by supporting somebody like Raja. They did not deserve any congrats.
Baywood
Posted by: Baywood | September 01, 2006 at 09:00 PM
"More that there are people who seem so conditioned to see Kobe hate in everything that anything positive said about another player becomes a silent indictment of Kobe, even when he's not mentioned. I understand why people were upset by AK's question (don't agree, but understand), but I was speaking about the larger issue."--BK
I am not sure how this applies at all other than to coddle AK. Nothing positive has been has been said about other players. Kobe was mentioned specifically by AK. Indeed, negative things were said about Kobe. This supposedly because of other players playing halfway across the world. This is NOT an example of Kobe fans going overboard or being too sensitive. This is yet another example of the media relying on Kobe as their punching bag, even as a means of lessening the beating taken by their own marketing darlings. And AK, just declaring that you've proven your objectivity long ago doesn't mean you did.
Posted by: LucasinOhio | September 01, 2006 at 09:06 PM
LakerTom & Mike T.,
I have an idea to bring back the Gold to Old Glory. First of all, there should be continuation of tenure of all coaches and GM but there will be some ramifications. First Change: All Players who would like to play in '08 Olympics will try out again including those who played in Fiba. From these try out a COMMITTEE of great basketball minds: Ex-NBA HOF, ex-Olympians, Broadcasters/sportwriters with Olympic experience will compose 7-man team who will choose the 12 players that will play for the '08 Olympics and two reserves. On the Coaching Group, they will select among themselves in a secret balloting the head coach but it will come from the present coaching group. Colangelo will be the GM and will try to get sponsors for the team trip's expenses in the succeeding months' practices. In this system, everybody will be treated fairly and equitably without any prejudice and favoritism from the coach.
Once the team is formed, they will travel next year to South America, first stop will be Rio de Janeiro. There will be a best of three series between Brazil vs. USA, any proceeds raised from these games will be split equally after deducting expenses by the two countries. I recommend that the USA team set up a Retirement & Medical Fund for impoverished NBA veterans and NCAA players who are now grey and old without any means to support themselves. After Brazil, they go to Buenos Aires and play best of three with Team Argentina with the same charitable causes. The players could also bring their families along with them during the trip so it's playing basketball with pleasure. By September, if the plan seemed to be yielding results they cover additional countries in Europe and rest for the forthcoming NBA season in '07. This is a win-win situation, they play basketball, they travel with their families, they play for a good cause and other objectives are at the end of this post.
By Olympic time, this team that was formed will very familiar with each other, familiar with the amateur rule, familiar with pace of the game, solve those inherent flaws that exist due to their NBA experience. Of course, this endeavor requires work, practice and more dedication to the task of being an Olympian. The harder the struggle, the greater the triumph. It is not offered for all, but it's patriotic opporunity offered only for this generation of American players to bring back the Gold to the good old USA.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | September 01, 2006 at 09:07 PM
I know I'm late to this argument, but from the comments AK posted I don't see where he is coming at Kobe. If you've read any of my posts you know I HATE IT when people unfairly judge, or blame Kobe for things he has no control over, but in this instance that is not happening.
AK merely asked a question (which is valid honestly) and a lot of people jumped down his throat cuz he brought up something negative Kobe did. I will always defend Kobe no matter what, but in the hand shaking incident he could have taken the defeat more gracefully (I'm saying this in hindsight of course, cuz at the time I didn't give a damn about how the Suns felt) and walked over and congratulated them.
Were Wade, and LeBron wrong for not shaking the greeks hands? Yes, but there are many times when other people, and teams do the same exact thing, I just think AK wanted our opinion on the situation.
Posted by: Weave-Man | September 01, 2006 at 09:08 PM
Baywood,
Blood is thicker than water. Someone has to rescue the twin brother under attack by these blood thirsty bloggers. Haha (j/k only). AK, we know what you were saying but your timing was off, being the author of this Lakers Blog. I know you are an independent-minded fan just what you always say in your posts but your neutrality manifested some partiality in the eyes of many bloggers. Why don't you let the bloggers talk and the authors listen at a time like this. Just my take.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | September 01, 2006 at 09:17 PM
Our point isn't about AK. It's something larger. As a matter of course, all things basketball must hinge somehow on Kobe. So AK decides, on the Laker Blog he runs, to give Kobe some more redundantly negative press. And why? To deflect criticism from his own boys, in just a biased a manner as any blogging Kobe fan would do. As he leads a Laker blog, he resurrects additional negativity around Kobe? As a Kobe fan tired of bias one way or the other, it seems too much to realize we have to fight this battle on our home front. And whoever said it before was dead on. AK is incapable of backing down. Infallible to the last he is. He merely has respect for Lebron's game. If all this seems like an overreaction, its because I don't buy AK's "this is just another innocent slandering of Kobe" routine.
Posted by: LucasinOhio | September 01, 2006 at 09:30 PM
Weaveman,
Kobe has the right to turn his back against the Phoenix fans and the team that taunted him, piloried him when he was clostheslined by Raja Bell. That was the issue and when there is physical contact, it's hard to forgive since Kobe was still nursing psychological wounds of defeat and physical wounds as well. At that moment, he could be a hypocrite to Laker fans if he shakes the hands of the the devil named, Raja Bell.
By this time, I don't think he has those kinds of ill feelings, he has forgiven and forgotten the incident. Let bygones be bygones but AK reopened the wounds at the time when the USA lost a game.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | September 01, 2006 at 09:35 PM
Lucas,
I have, in fact, also called out the Team USA players that didn't shake hands. I've done it many times throughout the discussion. I simply asked some people why they would choose to call this out with Wade or LeBron and not Kobe. That's all. It's a question/comparison that's interesting to me. And as I said before, the question has MUCH LESS to do with Kobe himself than the readers, whose take on the situation I wanted. I was just wondering how people felt and why. I had an idea, but I still wanted to see how people would answer.
But I don't think posing this question was quite "negative press," as you put it. It's not like I ranted and raved about "how this was just another example of Kobe being an immature, spoiled, bad leader," or something over the top like that. I didn't cast any judgement on Kobe at all, other than saying I'd have preferred he shook hands with some Suns (Raja Bell being a perfectly understandable exception, of course). But that's not a particularly hardline stance against Kobe. And I don't think asking the question creates some brand new cloud of negativity around Kobe. Again, this really wasn't "about Kobe," per say.
As much as Kobe's fans are absolutely right that he's endured some unfair media treatment, they're also more than a little hypersensitive to anything other than glowing statements about him.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | September 01, 2006 at 09:53 PM
To AK's defense I think some blogger misinterpreted what he was getting at. He even when on to say he wasnt trying to to call out Kobe. In other words I think this was AK's question:
"Were the same ppl mad at team USA for not shaking hands with the Greek players also mad that Kobe didnt shake hands with the Sun players?"
In other words were we mad at both team USA and Kobe for bad sportsmanship? The reason Im mad is both because its bad sportmanship period(!!!) and because they havent gotten any bad publicity yet. Kobe shouldnt be singled out for bad sportsmanship but when your favorite player gets picked on (by the media) so much sometimes we are blind with rage and forget to see that he is truly at fault. I know he was at fault but I didnt care because I thought all the $hi* he had taken justified his actions specially after he was clothesline purposely and Raja Bell was praised and only suspended for 1 frickin game. On the other hand you have an international game with no flagarant fouls,no ejections, and no real hard foul to which the losing team walks off the court without congratulating the better team. You can say to some extend that Kobe had a good reason to not shake hands with the Suns but what excuse did Team USA have? They were so upset that they decided to just be bad sports? You are taught from a young age (remember lining up?) to always shake hands and congratulate the opposing team no matter the outcome. The way things are viewed depends on how the media presents it. Its not fair for one person to be singled out. Kobe was a sport he was called out. Team USA was a bad sport so they should be called out too. thats the only fair thing to do but if they dont then we will support Kobe even more because we know that he is being picked on unfarily. Its like watching someone getting ganged on. Even though you know they did something wrong to get attacked its still wrong to gang up on someone and sometimes you have no choice but to help out. The media gangs up on Kobe so we as fans support Kobe no matter whats going on. Sometimes its not right but its also unfair for him to get picked on so much while other ppl are doing the same and get away with no punishment.
Posted by: Shady | September 01, 2006 at 10:05 PM
Since we are on the topic of Team USA, I have to agree: Kobe has nothing to do with this conversation. The only possible reference to Kobe in this topic is to say that the team would have been better with him. Other than that, Kobe has no part in this debate. And I will agree with some of my fellow bloggers that there is a big difference between an NBA game (smaller) and an international game (bigger). Kobe walking off the Phoenix floor is one thing. I will not debate whether it was right or wrong, but I think we can all agree that he at the very least had a clear and understandable reason for it. And frankly, until it was brought up by our host, probably nobody i here, including myself, remembered.
However, the guys on Team USA represented THEE United States of America. Not only that, they only acted the way they did out of immaturity, unproffesionalism, and disrespect. They didn't get closelined, or tackled, or badmouthed. They simply got beat. Period. They had no excuse. They showed they areyoung guys that still lack professionalism. Not only did they embarass the country. They seriously embarrassed themselves.
I'm not going to crucify AK like some of you did. I read it as a hypothetical, I'll adress it as such. I don't think to 2 cases are comparable because of the 2 very different stages they occurred on. In my opinion, what the guys on Team USA did, besides Carmelo Anthony, was much worse than what Kobe did.
Also, Melo deffinitely gets major props and respect. Melo showed the most class, the most leadership, and at the same time showed that he is the only one 100% ready for the international game. He showed up to play, performed like a true world-class baller, didn't win, and respected his worthy opponent when the contest was over. It wasn't Lebron. It wasn't D-Wade. Melo was clearly the best player on this team.
B.
Thee Cali King
Posted by: Thee Cali King | September 01, 2006 at 10:22 PM
Great blogs guys. I am always amazed by the basketball intellect, overall critical analysis and even the sense of humor of so many of the bloggers. Of course, it's been a great job by AK and BK to run this thing to a t.
I was of course disappointed by the US team and here's some of my sentiments regarding all this in an article that I just wrote.
I apologize ahead of time for the length. Hopefully it will be a fast read.
"U.S. Basketball - It's About Time We Make a Statement."
By R.G. Gaznabi
Globalization of basketball is wonderful for the NBA at multiple levels.
I get it.
Foreign players diversifies the league. Attracts worldwide viewers. Which equals more money.
I get that too.
But being on the other end of trash talk where the Italian team (in this year's World Championship) even went as far as to say, "...you ain't no Michael Jordan (bleep)!"
Now that's what I don't get.
And honestly, I don't wanna get it.
Can you imagine anyone even frowning at the Original Dream Team in the 1992 Olympics? Charles Barkley almost slapped someone just cause he was complaining too much to his own players (well, Barkley actually shoved, but you know what I mean).
Now, I am not saying that the current US Basketball team needs to start a fight on the court but I do want both the US players and the US Basketball Committe to at least realize that there's a bit of pride at stake. Promoting the game that you created in your own backyard is a great thing but being beaten at your own game and then hearing about it in the form of trash talking is simply unfathomable.
Somewhere between coming in sixth in the last World Championship and the pathetic bronze medal permance in the 2004 Olympics, US basketball not only lost basketball games but seems like they are also losing their sense of pride as not only a basketball team but also as a nation.
I mean come on, if I created a game, and I'm the best at it (no matter what anyone says, there is no comparisons between NBA basketball and any other league in the world), I might take a few hits just to encourage others who are still learning the game. Heck, I might even cheer them on while taking my hits. But when you let these same guys talk smack to me and disrespect me while playing the game that I taught them...that's just bending over a little too much.
Now, I understand why the big name NBA players often don't want to be involved in US Basketball. There's simply too much at stake and very little time to spare. First of all, these guys play around 100 games per season (incuding playoffs and preseason) and that's without all the practices, scrimmages, personal trainings, etc. A lot of players cannot afford to put anymore strain on their bodies. A national team commitment would pretty much mean giving up there summers, which is the only time players can actually spend a little more time with their families and also recover from the many bumps and bruises that they endure during the season. Then there is the chance of injuries. A lot of players also have surgeries, rehabs, etc. during the off-season. Plus there are personal and family issues that often come up like death, childbirth, marriage, etc.
But inspite of all these issues, US Basketball (both players and officials) need to build a team that will not only win but also get some of that pride back. A team where a foreign player will think twice before showing any kind of disrespect. It's too late for the World Championship this year so obviously it has to be done for the 2008 Olympics.
And to achieve this, when they put the team together, the US Basketball selectors have to remember couple of additional goals together with the most important goal of winning. And these two goals are 1) Bringing back the "Awe" factor and 2) "Intimidation". And what exactly do I mean by that? Let's use couple of examples to explain myself:
1) "Awe" - Kobe Bryant scoring fifty points in a game is brilliant. But Kobe Bryant outscoring an entire Dallas Mavericks team in the first three quarters of an NBA game, all by himself is a touch more than just brilliant. People were in awe. (By the way, Vince Carter jumping...and then dunking...over 7'2 Fredrick Weis of France during the 2000 Olympics was another moment of genuine awe).
2) "Intimidation" - I have two words. Ron Artest. There's a few players who are great defenders. Like Bruce Bowen, Shane Battier and James Posey. But ask any NBA player who would they much rather be guarded by...Artest vs. anyone else in the league...I would bet that almost all of them (unless they have very little regard for their body) would go for the later choice. Artest brings the element of fear in the basketball court. He could be smiling when he's defending someone on court, he could be playing injured, heck, he could be just sitting on the bench -- it doesn't matter. He still puts fear (at some level or another) in the hearts of most players because of that element of surprise with Ron Ron...of course, his reputation/history doesn't hurt either.
So, keeping these two above mentioned subgoals (if you will), the US Basketball selectors should really invite and hope to recruit at least a few players who can send a message to all these foreign players by not only their play but also just by being there. 'Coz no matter what people say, whenever Kobe steps on a basketball court, everyone sits up straight, everyone pays just that much more attention 'coz you just might witness something phenomenal...a breathtaking move, a 35 foot fadeaway buzzer beater or a thunderous dunk over some silly mortal.
Same with Artest. Apart from his incredible skills at both ends of the court, you just never know when he might break someone's ribs (just ask Michael Jordan what happened in a scrimmage a few years back) or when he might just come to your bench to whup you rear just 'coz you looked at him the wrong way (well maybe not, but then again you never know with Ron Ron).
So, guys like Kobe and Artest will not only win the game, they will put the aforementioned 'awe' and 'intimidation' that these current US teams are sorely missing when compared to the original Dream Team in the 1992 Olympics. I mean think about it carefully. The '92 Dream Team did have possibly the best players ever assembled but can they also be called the nicest set of guys ever assembled? I seriously doubt that. Everyone knows about MJ's drive and passion. Same with Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. But what people often forget is that these guys were also the toughest and the baddest S.O.B.s to ever set foot on a basketball court. They not only beat their opponents, they would cut their hearts out, stomp on it and then give it back to them...just so that they can remember what happened.
And that's what we need (minus the whole 'heart' analogy...I got a bit carried away).
At least for one tournament. That'll get the message across to the rest of the world of basketball.
So hopefully by the 2008 Olympics we'll have Kobe and all the big guns in the NBA (like LeBron, Melo, D-Wade, Amare Stoudomire, etc.) plus the likes of Ron Artest and Ben Wallace, all pumped up to to not only capture the gold but to also make a statement. A real statement. 'Coz let me tell you...
...it's about that time.
Posted by: R.G. Gaznabi | September 01, 2006 at 10:28 PM
R. G. Gaznabi,
That was a great analysis and contribution the blog. Hope you post more new ideas in the future.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | September 01, 2006 at 10:49 PM
R.G. Gaznabi,
I couldn't agree more. Especially about Kobe need to drop 50 on some euro team. And I don't mean in one of the punk games. In a metal game. I think it needs to be done.
mike
Posted by: Michael Teniente | September 01, 2006 at 10:51 PM
R.G.
Classic..."awe" and "intimidation"
Posted by: MAGIC=GOAT | September 01, 2006 at 11:02 PM
Nice post Gaznabi.
Posted by: sonnybelfast | September 01, 2006 at 11:51 PM
R.G. Gaznabi
Great post.
"...thunderous dunk over some silly mortal" love that part. I totally agree that team around the world arent scared anymore to play Team USA because believe it or not they ALL have a chance to beat USA. The Dream Team was full of talent and guys who wouldnt back down. I mean even the white guy (Larry Bird) had gotten into fights in the NBA. So they new that he wasnt their to take their $h*t:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FwL97fIfijw
Im not saying they should go to international games to look for fights but if you put the fear into your opponent then theyll be to scared to fight you. They dont fear Team USA. The world has lost the respect for America. Til we started winning again and show them how to dominate on the court ppl will not fear team USA.
Posted by: Shady | September 02, 2006 at 12:08 AM
USA's finish in FIBA World Championships
2002 6th
1998 3rd
1994 1st
1990 3rd
1986 1st
1982 2nd
1978 5th
1974 3rd
>_<
Posted by: dan the man >_< aka smushcalade | September 02, 2006 at 12:10 AM
Baywood, Edwin-
AK doesn't need me to defend him. I said at the beginning that Kobe and the Phoenix series isn't what would have popped into my head when I saw that comment, and the responses on the board have been pretty interesting (lots of people complaining about bringing Kobe up, which I understand, but not so many actually answering the question AK asked). I just thought it was an interesting question and comparision he put out. Feel free to complain about the timing of it, if you like. I think to freak out and lump AK into the pile of Kobe haters is a little bit of an overstatement, but lord knows I've been thrown on that heap before, and I'm sure I'll be thrown on it again.
And Baywood, to answer your question, I was running errands and taking my fiance to get her car serviced, if you must know where I was when the discussion started. And I said at the top that the players in the WC were wrong not to shake hands, just as Kobe was wrong (skip Raja, find some of his teammates) and I'd say the kids I used to coach in high school would be wrong.
BK
Posted by: Brian Kamenetzky | September 02, 2006 at 12:16 AM
Ford,
You're mistaken. I remember the announcer saying that Papaloukas, not "baby Shaq" was being paid $17 mill. for 3 years.
BTW, Papaloukas was the Euroleague MVP, and he signed with a Moscow team.
Posted by: greek dude | September 02, 2006 at 12:46 AM
AK,
To answer your question, the difference between the Kobe-Suns thing and the LBJ/Wade thing is that Raja Bell made it clear that he has no respect for Kobe, and Steve Nash (and half the Suns team) complained to the media on more than one occasion about the Lakers winning because of "unfair" calls that Kobe got. They never really gave him the respect he deserved, as one of the NBA's best players. I can understand Kobe not wanting to shake hands with them. Team Greece did NOTHING to either LBJ or Wade. They didn't clothesline anyone, they didn't talk crap before the game, etc. etc.... LeBron and D.Wade had no reason to not shake their hands. They were just being babies about it and couldn't accept that they got beat by the better team. They didn't give Greece the respect they desereved. They left the court thinking that THEY were still the better team, and even worse, they put it on display for the whole world to see. Greece beat us fair and square, and the least USA's superstars could do was shake their hand and congratulate them. I do agree that what Kobe did wasn't the classiest thing in the world, but plenty of the Suns players made it clear that they had no respect for Kobe. Besides, if he had tried to shake Raja's hand, he probably would've just tried to clothesline him again. haha!
Greece had nothing but respect for LBJ, Wade, and Team USA in general, so they should've been a little more mature about losing, and instead of running to the locker room and crying about it, they should have at least shook they hands and congratulated them on the win.
Posted by: Lakersgirl | September 02, 2006 at 12:50 AM