Taliq,

I disagree to some extent. At a certain point the employer (the team) needs to have some power over their employees or possible employees (the players). The thing is, every player knows that entering the draft is somewhat of a gamble. If they do their homework they get an idea of where they will get picked and what it means to get picked at that point (i.e. guaranteed money, rights, etc.). They are given plenty of time to decide whether or not to proceed. If they do and then have a problem, well that's too bad.

Ultimately it's a business and if you want to make a living in the NBA you have to take some risks. Pinnock took the risk of entering the draft knowing full well that he could either get picked in the second round or not at all. Either way, it was his decision. And, I'm sure after the SPL or in the time since it's ending, Pinnock has received some word from the Lakers as to whether or not he will get an invite to camp or should start looking for work overseas.

Andrew Z, I have to agree with you on LakerTom's list; not one of those guys would give LA a championship this year. I'm not sure any two of them would really make them contenders, although we would be a lot better with Byron Scott... if he could get any floor time.

Greekdude, I think you're totally right. Those odds aren't nearly high enough.

We should definintely send Pinnock overseas just for this year. OUr problems is that we already have too many players in guaranteed contracts. THis was we will retain the rights to Pinnock, allow him to develope more out there plus give him that experience he needs. His issue will be that he wants to play in the NBA and that he needs to money 'to feed his family'.
Descisions, Decisions....
D Green deserves a spot and so does Mckie/Profit

Wow, those Kings' nuts are more like hayseed.

**Best Odds to Win NBA Championship***

Lakers are tied for 10th with respect to the odds of them winning an NBA championship this year at 33 to 1.

Here is a comparison of the best odds available to bet on a team winning the NBA Championship from:

http://www.oddschecker.com/betting/mode/f/card/basketball-nba/odds/2490120x/sid/939733

01 - SAS 5/1
02 - MIA 11/2
03 - DAL 6/1
04 - DET 7/1
05 - PHX 8/1
06 - NJN 20/1
07 - CLE 20/1
08 - CHI 25/1
09 - DEN 29/1
10 - LAL 33/1
10 - IND 33/1
10 - LAC 33/1
13 - MEM 40/1
13 - SAC 40/1
13 - HOU 40/1
16 - WAS 66/1
17 - PHI 75/1
18 - MIL 80/1
18 - NOH 80/1
20 - GSW 100/1
20 - UTA 100/1
20 - BOS 100/1
23 - ORL 125/1
24 - SEA 150/1
24 - TOR 150/1
24 - MIN 150/1
27 - NYK 200/1
28 - CHA 300/1
29 - POR 500/1
29 - ATL 500/1

Tom

**Odds for Winning the Western Conference**

Lakers are projected as 4th best odds to win Western Conference at 16 to 1, better than the Clippers, Denver, and Sacramento among others per:

http://www.oddschecker.com/betting/mode/o/card/basketball-nba/odds/2754229x/sid/1005078

SAS 11/5
DAL 5/2
PHO 13/5
LAL 16/1
LAC 18/1
DEN 22/1
SAC 25/1
HOU 25/1
MEM 33/1
UTA 50/1
SEA 66/1
NOH 66/1
GOL 80/1
MIN 80/1
POR 150/1

Tom

**Odds for Player to Win NBA 2006/7 MVP**

Here is the odds for the top players to win the MVP for the 2006/7 season. Kobe is tied with Wade at 5/1 with Lebron being the favorite at 7/2. Nash is predicted to be 4th at 12/1.

The Pros basically give Kobe more credit than the general media.

http://www.oddschecker.com/betting/mode/o/card/basketball-nba/odds/1497871x/sid/727204

Lebron James 7/2
Kobe Bryant 5/1
Dwayne Wade 5/1
Steve Nash 12/1
Tim Duncan 12/1
Allen Iverson 12/1
Kevin Garnett 16/1
Dirk Nowitzki 16/1
Elton Brand 20/1
Carmelo Anthony 20/1
Vince Carter 25/1
Amare Stoudemire 25/1
Shaquille O Neal 28/1
Chris Paul 28/1
Yao Ming 33/1
Shawn Marion 33/1
Gilbert Arenas 33/1
Chauncey Billups 33/1
Paul Pierce 33/1
Richard Hamilton 40/1
Chris Bosh 40/1
Tony Parker 50/1
Tracy Mcgrady 50/1
Jermaine O Neal 50/1
Ray Allen 66/1
Jason Terry 66/1
Jason Richardson 66/1
Jason Kidd 66/1

Tom

Von Wafer was done after Kirk Snyder dunked all on his head....

ouch!

Nelson is not going to turn the Warriors into a title contender, but he can certainly turn them into a 6/7/8 spot playoff contender.

Andrew Z,

No offense but there doesn't seem to be a reasonable situation that works for you. From what I gather you want another superstar to go along with Kobe. Philosophically speaking, I'm against another superstar joining the team. I want Kobe to lead a group of player to the promised land without an outside superstar coming in. I'd like Kobe to be the leader that helped in the development of Lamar, Kwame, and Bynum into superstar status. I think that with their development Darius Miles would be a perfect fit. Miles has 4 more years on his contract topping out at 9 million. That's a steal if Kobe can bring out Mile's game. Personally I think that's Kobe's next goal. Making everyone around him a better player. With all the potential in Odom, Brown, and Bynum...superstar status for them is not beyond reason. Put Miles in that mix...and we're over the top, in my opinion.

mike

Mike T,

I should also say that if I were the GM of the Lakers I would be very conservative. I'd kind of be like the bizzaro Isaiah Thomas. That being said, I think trading for Darius Miles would be a huge gamble and quite a risk, and that risk would definitely outweigh the reward.

In comparison, trading for Kwame was a risk, but it was nowhere near trading for Miles because we were desperate for a big man and guys built like Kwame with his athletic ability don't come around too often. I just think there are plenty of athletic swingmen out there that would cost the Lakers a lot less. You would have to view Miles as somewhat of a "project" taking into account his past, and I would much rather work on a much cheaper "project".

Find me someone with an expiring contract at that price and I'm all for it. If they are good I'd even consider a two-year deal since I don't see anyone we will be signing next year for the MLE.

Edwin,
I am referring to his overall situation. He had his college education handed to him on a silver platter, and chose to throw it away. He still has the opportunity to play pro ball, if he is good enough. The problem is that, pretty obviously, he is not that good (relative to other NBA players.) The best thing for him to do, since he has now thrown away his scholarship, is to go someplace where he will play a lot so that he can develop his skills. That does not include sitting on the bench for an NBA team.

WOW....that took long to read.....dont wanna think about how long all those took to write...

I know its late, but wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the Farmar/Smush thing. I'll start out by saying I agree with AK and BK. I think they both think Farmar will not start from day 1...bu both are still allowing the possibility that he becomes the starter at some point in the season. I agree with BK in that there are just simple practical matters to consider...that Farmar still needs to get stronger, work on his D, extend his range and be a more consistent shooter, and simply get more experience. And I do think Phil is very adverse to starting rookies.

Now with that said I do backup most of the arguments made by Laker Tom. I agree with him in theory but not in his conclusion. Simply because...I don't think Farmar is THAT good yet. As far as the triangle is concerned...a lot of people dont really even understand what it is. You'd be surprised how many LAKER FANS really can't answer the question "what is the triangle offense?" I can totally see how Smush's understanding of the triangle is very limited. Its true that many players in the NBA may NEVER master the triangle. But its not some voodoo mystical offense and its not rocket science. A smart individual who has played ball his whole life (particularly PGs) should really learn the triangle fairly quickly. I literally think Nash could only study BOOKS and VIDEOS on the triangle for a month...then step in and understand it better than Smush in a matter of a couple weeks of practice. It is a sad fact that there are fewer and fewer "intelligent" basketball players these days. Thus it takes a full year to "master" the triangle...but as someone pointed out...it really shouldnt. I dont think you can underate a great "true" pg's ability to adapt to a system.

As far as GP goes. the term "true pg" is somewhat subjective. But I happen to have the same type of definition as Tom. I think when we say "true PG" we think of those skills such as dribbling, "court vision" (not just passing), decision making, running the offense, controlling tempo, and leadership. When anyone says "true PG" the first name that pops up is Stockton. In that sense, I too, have never considered GP a "true PG". GP's style of play was very "selfish" in a way and his assists were of an entirely different nature than that of say Stockton or Nash. GP dominated the ball like no PG ive ever seen (and that includes Marbury and Francis), and his assists were more a function of his domination over the ball than his "court vision". In a different way, Andre Miller is also a very overated PG. People think he's such a great PG cuz of his assists in his Clev days, but that team was perfectly suited for Andre. Andre dominated the ball, was the best player on the team, but was surrounded by very good shooters who could not create their own shot. Thus where the average team always has its share of players that negate assists, clev's "catch and shooters" maximized Andres assists. Another example is Starbury, who averages over 8 assists a game, yet noone will laud Marbury as a great "true pg". So I think assists shouldnt be the main factor in determining "true pgs". I happened to play PG in high school. My nickname Wiz was due to my fancy passes. But over time I realized my play was somewhat detrimental, I got some fancy assists but also dominated the ball (and got some extra TO's while at it). Over time I learned to play within the offense, and the importance of simple passes that help set things up rather than a fancy pass that led straight to an assist. In fact, one of the most underated roles of a point guard isnt always to make great passes but to make the pass that you know will lead to another pass for the assists. Sometimes this can be as simple as making the simple swing pass rather than the skip pass.

This leads to another point. I think this was one of Kobe's big flaws 2 years ago. Even when he wasnt trying to score, he was trying to be the "set up man". He could not make the simple pass. I agree with Tom in that I feel like Kobe would be unstoppable if he has a smaller role as a facilitator and simply picked offenses apart like Jordan did in the triangle. It is true that the triangle doesnt need a "true pg"...but it seems as tho over time, ppl have confused that with the thinking that the triangle negates true pg skills. Someone with PG skills at the point can only help, not hurt. The PG isnt supposed to just sit there at jack up 3's like Smush or GP. I actually think Lamar should still be the primary facilitator and the focus should be through him. But I think a second facilitator at the PG spot would be GREAT! Then Kobe would be free to pick his spots as well as conserve energy (which in turn might allow him to pick up his defensive efforts).

In Farmar, I see a lot of potential. I simply love his basketball IQ and court vision and especially his mental toughness....and I would love to see Farmar starting by the end of the season...but I simply dont think he's ready yet at this point.

Mike T,

there is definitely a reasonable solution that works for me, and it doesn't involve putting another superstar next to Kobe. I think the Lakers do need two top level players around Kobe. I feel that those players either have to come from outside, or they need to come from our current roster. Ideally I would like to see Lamar Odom improve to be a perenial All-Star and I would like to see Kwame Brown improve to be a top 5 center in the league. i don't think that is too far fetched.

As for Miles, I think the odds of him turning out to be a bargain at $9 million a year for the next four is a coin flip at best, even with Kobe and PJ around, that's why i'm against him in the purple and gold.

What I would like to see is the two guys I mentioned develop into "All-Stars" and then use the MLE and such in the next years to find pieces to put around our trio, kind of like we put a shooter (Vlad) around them this off-season.

Taliq,

Again, I don't understand how you could be coming from the standpoint of "Pinnock is being held against his will". The guy knew exactly what he was getting into and he entered the draft anyway. He is completely responsible for his position, which I might add is waaayyy better than 99.9% of the basketball playing population. If he ends up playing in Europe this year, he'll get paid a large sum of money as a professional basketball player, which he said is exactly what he wanted to do when he came out of school. He wanted to get paid as a basketball player to take care of his family. Do you really think there are other NBA teams clamoring for his services right now? Since no one else drafted him, I'm guessing no. He should be grateful for the opportunity he has and he should continue to work hard to get to the NBA.

Taliq,

I think that's a bad comparison. Let's say 30 US companies are hiring two people each, and there are 400 people applying for those jobs, and I want to be one of them. Before I put my application in I am told that only the first half of the people are guaranteed jobs, whereas the second half might get hired, but they also might not, but if they aren't they also can't take jobs with other US companies. At that point I would think of how bad I want to work for one of those companies. I would think, wow, that would suck not to be able to work for other US companies, I could go back to school, maybe develop more skills so next year I have a better chance of getting one of the guaranteed jobs, and then I would make the decision about putting my name in, knowing what a gamble I would be taking and the repercussions of my actions. Danilo Pinnock knew that he was taking a gamble, he could have gone back to school, worked on his game, became a better player and improved his chances. Instead he put his application in and hoped for one of the guaranteed jobs. His decision, his repercussions. In no way is the company responsible for anything because he knew exactly what the risks were going in and made his decision anyway.

Exhelodrvr,

"The problem is, pretty obviously he is not that good in relation to other NBA players."

Perhaps, we have to restate again your statement, the problem is, he is good and there is no room for him in the roster because there are contracted players who are not tradeable. Therefore, the Lakers would like to hold on to him as long as they can do it. If they cut him off, they lose him that's as simple as that. Now here is my point I've been driving at to AK, BK & AZ....if you were Mitch Kupchak on the draft day. You are aware that you have a possibility of 7 guards, WHY OH WHY did you still go for another guard at the late pick? You wasted your future pick and you wasted the time of the player you picked because you have already 6 guys crowding this position namely: smush, sasha, farmar, evans, williams, mckie, vonwafer and lastly, danilo. I hope you got my point, sometimes it's hard to understand the depth and breadth on the mind of our GM. Is he intelligent or just plain stupid?

Taliq,
It is also not uncommon for businesses to have employees agree to not work for a competitor for a certain period if they leave the employ of that business.

Exhelodrvr,

I still don't see what education has to do with this. Assuming Pinnock finished college, how would his situation be different. He could go get a regular day job whilst waiting for the lakers to open up a roster spot?

But if you want to make it about school, college ball is as unfair as it gets. This whole if you declare for the draft you become ineligible for scholarships is bull. That's like me being told whilst I was in school that if I apply for a full time Job with Microsoft, I lose my academic scholarship.

What makes the situation even worse is the school makes money off atheletes and in return all they get is a measly scholarship. Duke makes tonns off it's players, ncaa won't allow them to compensate the players but the coach is allowed to make millions and sign endorsment deals. And a scholarship is bull shyt, I had a full academic scholarship in college, but I'd be pissed if I was raking in millions for the school in return. I know there's the whole thing of not turning college ball into pro ball, well if that's the case let all that revenue Duke makes go into a financial aid package for the students. Every dollar the school makes or every other dollar should count against some students tuition, at least that way the students can thank the athletes for making their tuition cheaper, rather than it going to the schools coffers which will later be used to pay the coach millions and the school president millions.

Education is highly overated. Kobe didn't go to college, vince ditched his team on the eve of an important playoff game 7 to go pick up some paper and the media was praising him for taking school important. I was like da*n a lot of people in my class didn't show up for their graduation ceremony, it's just that a ceremony. Imagine me telling my boss on the eve of an important deliverable that i need to go for my graduation ceremony, imagine that he was somehow paying me millions, damn imagine him firing me on the spot.

In Kobe we Trust,
Go Lakers

Exhelodrvr,

"It is also not uncommon for businesses to have employees agree to not work for a competitor for a certain period if they leave the employ of that business."

That comes with a compensation package and pinnock isn't getting one.

Andrew Z,

Once again, I'm not saying Pinnock wasn't aware of his choices. However that doesn't necessarily make his choices fair. I'm not hear crying for pinnock, he will make more money overseas than I'll probably see in the next few years.

It's like when an artist signs a record contract that isn't in their favor. Sure the artist knew what he was doing, and I'm not saying the artist will starve. I'm just looking at the contract and going, hey this isn't fair, it could be much better. The record company doesn't have to keep 99.9% of the profit, they can still keep 90% and make a killing. And yeah I know that .1% amounts to a lot of dollars but I think if i were the artist 10% is what would be fair given the work i've put in.

In Kobe we Trust,
Go Lakers

Edwin,
A second round pick is a huge gamble, especially a late second round pick. Look at the NBA rosters and see how many of the spots are filled by players who were late second round picks. So the Lakers gambled on who they felt was the best player remaining. If Pinnock is as good as you think he is, he won't have any problem signing overseas, and after a year or two he'll be in the NBA.

If he was as good as you seem to think, there would be other NBA teams trying to trade for him. So he obviously isn't that good. So the best he could get in the NBA would be to sit on the bench for a couple of years (if he is lucky), not get a chance to develop his skills, and then get cut to make room for another late second round pick. The best thing for his basketball career is to go someplace where he will play, and not sit on the bench.

Taliq,
"Education is highly overated. Kobe didn't go to college"
Well, that's a great way to decide the value of education. Because the best basketball player in the world didn't go to college, education is overrated!! LOL!!

No, what is overrated is playing sports as a career. Far too many people waste their school time hoping to be one of the few who can make pro sports a career. They get relatively nothing (compared to their competition in the job market) out of their high school and college years, and then when they don't get drafted/get cut they are screwed.

Taliq,

Thanks for those links.......they were excellent.

Wizo

Thanks for the clarification on Van Exel -- I didn't see the game in question, I just have a fuzzy memory of an LA Times article a few years back...unfortunately that recollection has always led me to be wee bit skeptical when it came to Van Exel.

Good God, not Darius Miles again.

Laker Tom,

"Based on his play overseas, Williams was able to get a 1 year contract for $1.75M to play for the Los Angeles Lakers. The only guys on the blog making that kind of bling are probably the Kamenetzky brothers."

I'm not even sure how to go about explaining how incorrect that statement is. haha

AK