Ken:

Thanks for asking. I am like Kobe and Farmar. Relentless. Although I will probably have to work late to make up for all of the posting.

Anyway, all I want to do is get everyone to at least see why I believe Farmar could well begin the season as the starter. I may be wrong but I believe there is a solid bases for my opinion. As I said, it may be a 10 to 1 shot but it is not a 1,000 to 1 shot as others have tried to claim.

Tom

LakerTom,

Sorry dude, but Rick Fox or Derek Fisher would not make this team championship material. They were the perfect players on a team with the two best players in the league running the show. They were to the Lakers what Steve Kerr, Paxson, Longley,etc. were to the Bulls. Since we only have Kobe right now (LO is nowhere, NOWHERE near the player Shaq was from 200-2004) we would need more than just the role guys. I don't even want to start to think that AC Green (can't believe that bear he used to put on his head) or Kurt Rambis could have much of an impact on this squad.

I think we're getting back to our difference in beliefs about how close this team is to a championship level. I think I'll just leave it at that.

Sonny

I like the Lakers! I just think Portland is better then the Kings. That is just my opinion. If you guys don't get Bonzi back then you are in deep doodoo.

Andrew Z,

Come on man! "Smush performed pretty well over 82 games".

Smush was inconsistent at best over 82 games and if he plays the same way this year its unacceptable, and someone else will be in there. I like Smush, he stepped in at the right time because Mckie was a waste of time, however, he really needs to improve on his overall game. We want to be contenders.

David Lee Rivers (born January 20, 1965 in Jersey City, New Jersey) is an American basketball player. He attended the University of Notre Dame. He was a third team All-American in 1986-87 and a second team selection in '87-88. He was the co-captain of the '87-88 squad. He currently ranks fourth in school history, in scoring with 2,058 points, and second in Notre Dame history in assists (586). He also ranks second all-time in steals (201) and steals average (1.7 spg), second in games started (116), fourth in assists average (5.0 apg) and three-point field goal percentage (.406), ninth in games played (118), 11th all-time in three-point field goals made (67) and 13th in three-point field goals attempted (165). He was selected to the '87 NCAA Championship All-Regional team. He earned four monograms while a member of the Fighting Irish. He was selected 25th overall by the Los Angeles Lakers in the first round of the 1988 NBA Draft.

Zakee,

David Rivers, His Notre Dame team beat my uncle's team in the NCAA's in 1987. :( Good college player, but not a factor at all as a pro.

Weave-Man,

Scroll back a couple of hours.

>_<

How come anytime a vet or player is on the market their name gets brought up on this blog as a good pick-up for the Lakers? We've gone from Dajuan Wagner to Kenny Anderson in the past couple of days and as soon as Shawn Kemp tells a reporter he wants to make a comeback we'll have a dozen people on this blog saying he could help us at the four.

And seriously, David Rivers? Are we that hard-up for things to discuss. Things like that make me miss the days of Kwame vs. Mihm arguments.

Laker Tom,

I don't know anything compared to them about odds, but what I do know is basketball.

In order to be a ROY, you need to be the best or second in at least one rookie category, usually two. Pretty much between points, assists, and rebounds. Almost always, it's the leader in points and if a guard, assists. We all agree that Farmar can't be on top with points right? Randy Foye on The T-wolves or Brandon Roy of the Blazers is going to lead in assists.

Just from this alone, you can asess that unless the voters are on crack, there is no way that he will become Rookie of the Year. Farmar might spot start at the end of the season, but there is no way in hell that he ends up averaging 7 assists per game, while Kobe and Lamar average 3. Even if he accomplishes this immpossible feat, he needs to average close to 14 points. 14 and 7 for Farmar, who almost pulled out of the draft because he wasn't nba ready enough to win rookie of the year is more than 250-1 my friend.

Dantheman,

Our record was 600 posts during the live coverage of the last playoff game. At the rate, we're going we'll break the 1000 mark especially when the super rookie, Junior Magic is in the game as a starter. I wonder what's the difference if Superboy plays only for 5 minutes while Smush plays 25 and Shammond plays the remaining 10 minutes. Would u call Superboy a starter or a warm-up rookie?

I think it should be made clear that the reason Phil Jackson has never given rookies much starting time is that he always has coached perenial championship caliber teams or at least those in the playoffs and therefore any rookie that his teams would be drafting are late first-rounders at best, and they are trying to get playing time on a contender. Those two things usually don't equate to a big role for a rookie.

If Phil was to say coach the Cavs a couple years ago, I can guarantee you that he would be giving Lebron James minutes. Take a list at every rookie that played for Phil Jackson and tell me that you would give them substantial PT if you were trying to win a ring.

I think we should put to rest the notion that Phil wouldn't play a rookie if they were able to contribute to a team looking to win a ring.

Kobe shoots a lot better than his stats indicate because he gets tons of passes with no time left on the shot clock.

Having just crushed, skunked and otherwise destroyed the Los Angeles basketball team, the Sacramento Monarchs will proceed to Detroit to win the National Championship; back to back.

Laker Tom,
you've disregarded everything I wrote about in my last post. Those guys that I mentioned(Roy and Foye) were just the point guard ahead of Farmar. You're right about Williams, he can't get enough tick.

Adam Morrison on a non-scoring Bobcat team, JJ Redick on a team with open sots from dwight, LaMarcus Aldridge, Bargnani even has a chance, since he did play better than Farmar in the SPL are just the obvious ones that came off the top of my head.

There is no way, although I would love it to happen, that through Kobe and Lamar, Phil's stubborness, that Farmar can be ROY.

Roger B.

Finally someone with my boy Sasha!

THe reason why Kobe's 3pt% is so low, is cause he shoots so many ill-advised (although warrented when he's on fire) shots with a hand in his face and with the shot clock winding down. In fact he must lead the league with 3 circus-shots-to-beat-the-buzzer per game.

SASHA FOR MVP!!!!!!!

Anyone have predictions for the FIBA semifinals? I predict Spain slaughtering Turkey, Spain beating Lithuania by 12, Greece mopping the floor with France (the French can't handle the defense), and the US taking Germany by 40.

Laker Tom,

"Nobody seems to be really disputing those base skills or Farmar’s potential. They are disputing whether they are enough to beat out Smush Parker given Phil’s known reluctance to start rookies. Is this not a correct assessment of the entire controversy?"

Honestly, it seems to me that it's more people flat out thinking you're overestimating where Farmar's skills currently stand as judged by pro standards. Farmar beating out Smush is obviously not out of the question. I just think it's way to early to declare Farmar ahead of him, considering we haven't really seen him do anything yet. For that matter, we also haven't seen Smush play a year older (and hopefully wiser). And while Smush may not be a true PG, it's not like him playing it was a disaster (postseason aside). For the time being, I'd say it's more his spot to lose than Farmar's to gain, if that makes any sense.

In terms of Phil not playing rookies, I do think he's reluctant to give them PT, but that should also be viewed with a grain of salt. In fairness, it's not like he's been had a lot of rotation capable rookies that he nonetheless chose to sit. George, Slava, Cook, etc. These were not guys who raised eyebrows getting a DNP-CD. Phil gave Madsen minutes from time to time when needed. And he played Luke Walton during critical playoff stretches against Detroit. The guy can occasionally be stubborn, but he's not stupid. If Phil honestly thought Farmar was the best candidate, I'm guessing he'd play him. He might grit his teeth doing it, but oh well.

I don't agree, though, that Phil will feel pressed to play Bynum or Farmar in anticipation of '07-'08. He's gonna treat this year as this year and next as next, especially if, as you think, he's working in a two year time frame. That affords him too little time to let this year slide to any degree. Thus, he'll play the guys he thinks will best win him games right now. If Bynum and Farmar are ready to contribute, he'll play them. But if not, I imagine he'll play other guys and hope Bynum and Farmar can contribute more the following season. And if they can't, he'll deal with it then. At any rate, I expect him to treat developing those guys with the same urgency he usually treats developing young players. Very little.

AK

Xodus, get out your canned goods lol.

I know this is probably going to shock a lot of you since it's coming from me lol...but I think PJ does play people based on their long term worth, in fact he did it to Smush. Think about it, it was odd that even when Sasha was clearly outplaying Smush, or that perhaps a lil bit more of JJ or Mckie during would have boded well during Smush's playoff breakdown, or anyone at anytime for that matter cause there were loads of time where we were literally playing 4 on 5...PJ still played him, and at crucial times. I think that had a lot to do with PJ psychologically psyching up Smush...or perhaps asking Smush to show him what kind of player he is, or wants to be, and for a time he delivered (but I'm still pissed about the attitude lol, jk) It was a test or something...imo, which I'm sure we'll see the answer of in terms of overall development and confidence of Smush this season. So it wouldn't be unheard of for PJ to play Bynum and Farmar crucial minutes, for the long term (the last year of his contract) benefit.

P.S. Man Lakertom's getting a beating (and one of those is from me lol)...hang in there Lakertom, it's good to have different opinions lol.

Exactly...poor Kings, sometimes it makes me wonder when are the Kings ever gonna act or play like KINGS??No offense but Kings having Artest is just not enough to carry the team all the way to championship. Seriously.

I like certain aspects of Sasha's game. It was cool when he pissed Bibby off and he was able to harry some other guards as well. He can shoot open 3s but can't handle the ball or create scoring opportunities for himself or others. He whines to the refs after every call that doesn't go his way and picks up more fouls than Mihm. With the roster as crowded as it is I don't know if he is worth investing another 17.7 min a game in. Jordan has a better upside and we have a million guards all of a sudden, most of whom I would play before Sasha. If we can get his money off the payroll and send him packing I would do it, regardless of his showing up to the playoffs. It was too little, too late for me. I do know that he shoots the lights out before the games start, so maybe he finally found the intestinal fortitude to produce during the games. PJ will let these guys go balls-out during camp and I think every guard except Kobe will have to prove his value and fight for minutes this year. This is an ideal situation b/c it will foster a hungry, competitive drive.

AK:

I guess that means that you don’t agree with me. What a surprise! Honestly, my optimism must bother you in some way because you just cannot stand to let my posts by without adding a negative comment. So let’s just review what I was saying again, which has two parts:

(1) “Nobody seems to be really disputing those base skills or Farmar’s potential.”

What do you think this sentence says? I think it says that most of the fans on the blog believe that Farmar has a good set of base skills for a point guard and the potential for those skills to enable him to become the Lakers starting point guard at some point in the future.

I sure haven’t heard anybody say that Farmar doesn’t have the skills to be the starting point guard or that he will never start, just that he won’t start at the beginning of the season or in his first year. Do you not agree with this?

Specifically, we are talking about Farmar’s ball handling and passing skills, his court vision and leadership abilities, his mental toughness and capacity to play well in the clutch, and his ability to penetrate to the basket and either score or dish.

These are the skills and abilities attributed to Farmar based on his play at UCLA and in the summer league. I believe these attributes show that he has the potential to become a starting point guard for the Lakers. I think that most of the fans on the blog believe this. Do you not agree with this?

(2) “They are disputing whether they are enough to beat out Smush Parker given Phil’s known reluctance to start rookies.”

If you look back on the post disagreeing with me, you will see that, with an exception from Andrew Z, everybody brought up the point that “Phil doesn’t play rookies,” including you. Yes, you did say that he would begrudgingly play a rookie if he had no other choice. Well, last year he played Smush because he had no other choice. This year Farmar will give him a choice.
But generally I think you and most other posters on the blog think that Smush will start by default because he was last year’s starter. That is what I think is the prevailing opinion on the blog. Do you not agree with this?

Finally, you say that Phil will feel no pressure to play Farmar and Bynum because his contract has only two years left. I do not agree with you. It will be human nature if you have only two years left at a job, whether it be president of the United States or coach of the Los Angeles Lakers to want to go out a winner. And for Phil to want to win the 10th ring to spite Red Auerbach and all the naysayers who said he couldn’t do it with this team.

As you said, Phil is not stupid. He knows, for example, that the team needs to know whether Bynum can be the primary backup to Kwame so we can deal with Mihm. He also knows that Smush is not the long-term starter at the point, so just like last year he is going to want to get an idea of how both Farmar and Smush match up against the other players on the team. This is a process that will start on day 1 of training camp, just as it was the focus during the summer pro league.

I think you also forgot that Phil is one of the few coaches that really takes a long view of the season and has a reputation for sacrificing wins early in the year to give younger players a chance to show whether they can contribute later on. He himself said doing that cost us several wins during the regular season last year. So why would he not look to get an early answer to the biggest two questions that face the team?

I respect your opinion greatly, AK. That is why I really get upset when you do not respect my opinion. Or when you join the naysayers to tear it apart without really addressing what I was saying correctly.

You will notice that despite all of my points, I still put the odds of Farmar getting the starting nod over Smush at 10 to 1, which is a far cry from declaring it be fact as you seem to imply.

Tom

Faith:

Thanks for the help on the Phil playing rookies issue and the encouragement. One thing about us old guys is that we have proven we can take a beating and still keep on ticking. (I was going to say licking but I knew that would just give sonny too much to work with).

Tom

Man I'm so bored with all these Smush V. Farmar arguments. I'm afraid we might go back to another Kwame Brown V. Chris Mihm debate. At this point I think we should just sit back and wait for training camp and preseason and see how it all plays out.

Personally, I don't think Farmar will be starting on Halloween night, but that's where all the fun lies.

AK I'm putting the onus on you to give us a great new thread tomorrow! lol.

Marcus,

"AK, Would you trust Vlad to handle the fast break at the 2 and throw Kobe to the 3 on offense?"

I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you rephrase it? Thanks.

AK

Laker Tom,

No worries. And I wouldn't think of it as people "criticizing" you. They just don't agree. As long as folks don't start taking personal shots (and the worst insult you've probably heard is that you're wearing rose colored glasses while viewing Farmar, something you often readily admit, anyway), it's not all that serious.

With the odds thing, in staying consistent with my whole "I need to see Farmar actually play against NBA players before deciding his starting status" philosophy, I'd prefer to wait until I see him in at least one practice or a pre-season game. Otherwise, I feel like I'm just throwing out numbers with absolutely no basis to them. I mean, I can do that, if you really wanna hear something. But they won't be anything I take stock in.

I will say this much, though. I'm giving Farmar around a 0% chance of winning ROY, but that's not a slam on him. I just don't think he'll have an opportunity for a big enough role to win it on a team with Kobe and Lamar (not to mention a couple other supporting guys). You have to be a pretty big engine on a team to win that award, if not the biggest. Frankly, If Farmar found himself in contention, I'd fear it's because something went very wrong with the season.

AK