greek dude:

Thanks for your response. I respect what you are saying but just want to make sure you see both sides. Here is my response back:

1. Phil wanted to play Bynum last year when Mihm went down but Bynum injured his ankle and was not able to play until the playoffs. That is the only reason he did not give Bynum heavy minutes down the stretch.

2. I didn't see any summer pro league games but I read every report about the games diligently and saw every game that Smush played for the Lakers last year and also saw most of Farmar's games for UCLA last year. I also heard Eric Pincus say that he never saw any player "get" the offense right away like Farmar did. No way Smush knows how to run the triangle better than Farmar. And I have read Tex Winter's Triple Post Offense cover to cover as well as playing a variation of the same offense in high school many years ago.

3. Head to head, all things being equal, Farmar would also start because he is the higher paid player with the longer contract. Hence, you want to play him unless the other guy is clearly better. It reminds me of what Al Maguire said when players complained that he started his son at point guard. Al told the other point guard that being just as good as his son was not enough. He had to be better than his son to start.

4. The whole point that I was trying to make here is that the team is better off with the ball not in Kobe's or Lamar's hands. Basically, they are going to dribble around and try to penetrate or shoot. They really slow down the triangle offense by doing that and inviting double teams. Playing the 3 in the triangle got MJ much easier shots than Kobe is getting going 1-on-1. We become a much more balanced and tougher team to defend.

Tom

Exhelodrvr
I always have great regard for your opinions. However, I must disagree with your conclusions regarding Artest. Clearly, any team that emplyees Mr. Artest in the future will be wise to do so with caution. His future contracts will probably be filled to the brim with behavior clauses. But he is without question a talented player. The Lakers showed interest in him last year. PJ has spoken highly of abilities as a player, so there must be some interest within the organization. The Lakers are a good organization in a powerful market. Unfortunately, at times in the past the Lakers have had difficulty attracting players, because they are a lot like the Yankees, and understandibly, most other baseball teams do not want to help make the Yankees any better than they aleady are. The Lakers may have an opportunity to acquire Artest, Garnett or other impact players next year. Its hard to tell right now who will become available. The Lakers organization will and should assess the players that become available, and make a prudent decison regarding who they feel would best help the team.
But there is a Risk vs Reward assessment that comes into play. If the organization feels that Artst could help the team, I fully support them. If they feel that a Gooden, an Ely, a Harringtion or some other player is a better fit, I would tend to trust that assessment. All I am saying is that Artest is a big time talent. Admittedly, he has on occasion, also been a big time pain in the ass. MK knows what is best for the team. I trust that he will locate and acquire the personnel needed to take it to the next level as soon as it is possible to do so.

LakerAl

Can anyone tell me the rap on Ron Ron as a teammate? Do his occasional outbursts cause other players to go "bad"?

Laker Tom,

No, I'm not joking. This isn't a matter of Smush being a pure PG or a center. Nor is a matter of who can eventually "run it better" (I imagine that will be Farmar). It's also not a matter of who's the better pure point, who has the better court vision, who's the better player, yada yada. It's a matter of having been exposed to the entire offense and knowing how it all runs. The large likliehood is that Farmar has much to be taught to before he's even SEEN all the offense, much less knows it all. How could Smush possibly not know better how the offense itself actually works runs after having spent 82 games/33 mpg in it than a guy who hasn't even seen it all? That just defies logic. It's like saying that a 7th grade kid who's really gifted at algebra automatically knows calculus, even though he's never taken a full class. He might be able to apply a little math knowledge to get him through some elementary problems, but he'll have to learn a lot before he can pass the course.

We're talking about a system that took vets like MJ, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq, etc. time to truly "know" it. Phil talks in his books about how his first year with the Lakers, the team didn't truly run it correctly. Are you telling me that Farmar's hoops IQ is SO high that his learning curve would breeze past all those guys? That's not being realistic, especially since he's yet to run it in its entirety (by his own admission). You can't take the SPL results (especially the Long Beach league, which is easily the weakest, competitive-wise) and translate it directly to NBA standards. It just doesn't work that way.

Again, I think the kid's gonna be very good, too. I think he was a very good pick. But a sense of perspective needs to be kept.

AK

Laker Tom,
I know we're beating a dead horse here, but I think you are vastly overrating what Farmar can do NOW

1.Bynum was healthy for a few games after Mihm got injured, but when we expected Bynum to play 15 minutes a game, PJ pulled back the reigns on the kid.

2. Listen to AK, he said that in the SPL, they played a watered down version of the triangle. There is NO WAY that Smush, who started over 100 games last season(including preseason) knows the triangle less than Farmar, who played a few games in a watered down version. The SPL is a whole different thing than the NBA. Eric Pincus said that Farmar is the fastest learner compared to others. Smush has a year experience in the real triangle. Farmar has none. End of story

3. You said it yourself: "The NBA is a business and the team will start the player who will help them win"-A player's salary has nothing to do with their playing time. In the end, Smush has a year's worth more experience than Farmar.

4. You're right, playing the 3 helps getting better shots. That is also 1-on-1 in this case, beause get the ball into Kobe/mj, and they post up their defender.

Well, Greece did win the 2004 European Championship, so they are experienced at the highest level unlike Farmar. It is comparable to say, winning the Conference championship (Europe, I think, has half the teams in the FIBA world championships). Thanks for the Greece reference though.
Sorry it took me so long to reply, but I have a government final tomorrow, so I'm multi-tasking.lol

AK:

I was actually joking when I asked you if you were joking. But after your lengthy response, I will seriously ask the question. Do you really think that Smush "runs" the Triangle Offense when he is in the game? Can you give me any instance where he showed any inate understanding of the offense?

Yes, Smush played in it for 33 mpg for 89 games (counting the playoffs). But I sure did not see him "run" the offense. What I saw was a shooting guard bring the ball up, pass to the wing, and then cut to the corner, etc. I saw him play in the Triangle but I never saw him "run" it. I never saw him take charge of the offense the way you see Nash do it in Phoenix or Kidd in New Jersey.

The Triangle offense is really very similar to a football style run-and-gun offense. It is an interrelated series of plays that give the offense specific options based on the defense's response. I have read Tex's book on the triangle, played a variation of it in high school, and watched it win 9 NBA championships. I think I probably understand it as well as anybody on the blog.

The Triangle offense is not really a difficult scheme to learn or use for a player who grew up as a point guard and sees the court like Farmar does as the coach's eyes on the floor. I have watched Farmar closely the last two years at UCLA and he is truly a take charge guy who can implement the coach's game plan on the floor and "run" the offense. Smush is just a shooting guard going through the motions of running the team.

That is why I used the analogy of a chess player versus a checkers player. Farmar may not yet know the exact options for each situation in the Triangle but he already understands the basic premise behind each move. Unlike the checkers player, to whom all pieces with the same uniform seem to be the same, the chess player must know the strengths and weaknesses of each of his pieces and how best to use them as a team to defeat the opponent. It is algebra to arithemetic. It is jazz to pop music. It is Farmar to Smush.

If you do not see that now, then wait until the preseason games begin and you will see what I mean. Until then, I know nothing I say will change your mind.

Tom

Damn, I miss a couple days on the blog and it seems like we go back in time. I thought we had this Smush vs. Farmar argument a long time ago.

Laker Tom,

As always you bring up very valid points, but having good court vision, being a pure pg, and having the capacity to lead the offense don't substitute for experience. Yes, Farmar will be a good (hopefully great) pg, but I don't think he's going to reach his potential this year. And that's actually a good thing. Once Farmar gets some experience in the "full" offence, and against real NBA competition his game will grow so much that he will replace MY MAN SMUSH as the starting PG, but until then Smush is the best option we have at pg, and I think he will make us proud. Like I said, right now Farmar is a nice player, but by his 2nd year he should be a pretty good player.

LakerAl
Sorry bout posting late but I work and get home a bit late.

PART I
Your right about just everything and the only way we could get KG is if he wants to come to L.A. and L.A. only. Thats also includes him not demanding more than the Lakers can offer him. He already has his "paycheck" contract and therefore he is either after more money or just plain winning.

PART II
I think that we will have enough to sign Artest but not sure about KG. Again it all depends on what KG is looking for.

PART III
Sorry that was a typo and i meant to say 2yrs remaining in his contract. What I was trying to say is that it usually takes time to train someone in the triangle for them to fully be able to run it fluently on the offense. So we have to think about which will be the best overall player that will be able to develop enough team chemistry so they can play under any offense that the "new" (could be an assist coach) decides to play. I will try to find out how much cap space we will have next offseason to give you an estimate of how much we will have to offer. YOu can also go to this site

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/la_lakers.htm

LakerTom
"Garnet is going to demand at least $20M per year whereas Ron will probably go for $10M to $12M per year."

Again we dont know that since he will be earning $21,$22, and $24 over the next 3 yrs in Minny. If its money he is after his "winning situation" will go from bad (Minny 33-49) to worse (Bobcats 26-56,Hawks 26-56) since those will be part of the few ones that can afford to give him $20mil unless its a trade to another team with a superstar thats just not getting it done (Sixers =Iverson, Boston=Paul Pierce) or just a package with some young talent to build around. The question I want to ask you is "IF both Artest(27yrs/7nba seasons) and KG (30yrs/11nba seasons) cost the same which you think would be a better fit for the triangle and which would you take?" (LOL ok 2 questions). Again we dont know how much KG will sign for or where he wants to go.

Sonnybelfast
"In the end though, I expect the Kings to be at about a 3rd or 4th seed, and the Brokebacks to battle for a 6th or 7th seed, but that's why they play the games."

Last time I checked (correct me if im wrong) the seeds go in order of "Best record in division" then by best overall record givign them 1-4seed. Thats why the Nuggets were the 3rd seed (which is now changed) since they were in the weakest division (Northwest) on the West. Therefore for your Queens to be seeded in either the 3rd or 4th they would have to lead their division (Pacific) against the Lakers,Clipper and Suns and if they dont then have an overall better record in the Western Conference. Again the top 4 seeds go by division leaders and best overall record
1. San Antonio (Southwest)
2. Phoenix (Pacific)
3. Dallas (Best record after division leaders)
4. Denver (Northwest)-THIS DIVISION SUCKS!!!

Now 5-8 go to best overall records. So their is no way that your Queens will have the 3-4 seed unless the Suns completely fall off (along with the Lakers and Clippers) and the Kings blow up going on winning streaks. By the way 4 of the 8 playoff teams last season came from the Pacific division which is probably the toughest one to win in the West. Your Queens havent really improved to much for them to be considered top contenders.

GO LAKERS!!!!!

KEN,

What you say is completely VALID. the only part I am counting on and you're not (and it could very well have to do with the fact that you're thinking right) is the power, I think, KG will have next year to make MINNY trade him were he wants to go. if KG says either trade me to LA and get something or I'll OPT OUT. What would the WOLVES do? I want to see what they'll do. cause it gets COMPLECATED (and INTERESTING) for the WOLVES, KG and the LEAGUE. so OUT OF REACH is a little bit streching it. To me ofcourse.

The TRUTH is its all speculation at this "point" (pun intended).
Farmar has a bigger upside than Smush but is young and way inexperienced. Shammond is a question mark, Sacha is the darkest of dark horses, and I wouldn't even be surprised if Evans gets a shot and does reasonably well.
I remember during the Vietnam War when American troops couldn't tell Viet Cong from civilians, the gung ho warhawks used to say "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out." I think that's analagous to what Mitch and Phil have in mind - "play 'em all and let the Game sort 'em out."
I'm sure of only one thing - we CAN'T be sure who's da man at da point til the season gets rolling and we see how they do. God I wish it wasn't two months away.....

BK,

I just got back from San Diego so it's only now I am responding to your post.

I know what you are saying that college education is not really for all especially if you have a talent to earn big bucks via NBA contracts. Yes, people have the freedom to choose since they are within the age of reason (above 18) but please don't blame the society if they fail in life for lacking of preparation especially in this day and age when good jobs are exported overseas. For those successful high schoolers or 2nd year college to NBA, do we have any statistics of success and failures? How many are Kobe's, Garnett's and Jermaine's from this group?

When I mentioned inputs from these college guys, I meant rookies or freshmen in the league who have been drafted, therefore they belong to the ranks of PRO's, why should they not participate in the process? For practical and purposes some rookies who finished four year college have a mind of their own than uneducated veterans who makes value analysis based on the amount of his contract. Some players believe that a $10M is still a poverty level and they could not feed their family while others will advertise a $15 worth of shoes just to feed the hungry people in his own country. Of course, who are we to question the motivations of these people?

This is a trite subject matter which was already explained by AK and Mike T. and I agree with their explanation but since you mentioned it in your post on teams controlling the rights on their draftees, I will state MY concern on this matter. Let us use Danilo as an example: he was drafted late in 2nd rd., so no guarantee that he would make it to the team; he was invited in the SPL and most of opinions were favorable but no word that he would become part of the team; IF he is again invited to play in the preseason and not signed before the season begins, therefore he has NO compensation from the team that drafted him. I say, it is UNFAIR to control Danilo to do what is good for his life and for his family since an employer and employee relationship is not in existence between Danilo and the Lakers, why can he not go back to GWU and finish his college? I say the CBA rules were ONEROUS because there was no employment established on this draftee, he should be FREE to work with any other team after his college life. I think the rule says he is under the control of the Lakers for the next three years I'm sorry if you accuse me that I'm wrong but I find this scenario FEUDALISTIC. You try to accumulate as many draftees as possible but don't sign them for the next three years until you get the desired level of production or expertise, anyway, they are under your protection racket without any due compensation. I think this is WRONG. "If you drafted him but you didn't signed him then, he should be FREE."

PS. Sorry guys for the long post but I'm emphasizing a matter of principle.

The last few weeks this Blog is wired for speculation since there is no real basketball to watch but I am dying to see what happens when camp opens. I hope AK/ BK you guys can be in Hawaii and give us a little insight. The management seems to be done working trades and other than the logjam of potential point guards we have not really increased to the level I think we need to be.
Once again the help we may get from Mihm (injured), Smush(not confident), Bynum(hopefully develops and improves as a defender), and the new guys Vlade (shooting 3's), Mo Evans (some tough D and spark in the offense), Farmar (point guard extraordinaire - wheeweee LakerTom!!!), and above all maybe Lamar Odom and Kwame getting to be familiar with the triangle and support Kobe on offense and especially Team defense.
I won't jump on a 55 win bandwagon but of course the improvement of all these pieces are welcome and hopefully we have all these players get on with huge improving seasons. If so we could be a true threat, man, that is dreaming big and inspiration comes from Dreaming Big.
A lot of specualtion and a lot of High Hopes! I will cheer them all on no matter what!

Ken,

I love Amare and wish the best for him, but he's been a non factor for much of the last two seasons, especially when it counted.

Steve Nash has done it two years in a row, with two dissimilar Suns teams. Now, we're approaching the third year and it's a similar situation once again. Could it be that some players won't become great players until they are on one of his teams? Nash makes the whole team, including the bench, better, consistently. The Suns will be at or near the top once again. Perhaps a new star or two will emerge. As a Brokebacker, you should fear them.

Laker Tom,

Artest has been a model citizen and is happy here. He's with his family out in the country with a big chunk of land, has a lot of big dogs and other animals. (What else would you expect for crying out loud? He's a King!) He said only a few days ago that he wants to retire as a King.

Short of a major Ron Ron type of problem in the community, Ron Ron won't be going anywhere, that is, if the Kings want him to stay. We changed players, personnel and the dynamics of our play and are in the hunt for a championship. This year, next, whatever, Ron Ron will almost certainly be a part of it.

I wanted to change the subject a little bit and chime in on a subject I made mention to a while ago about Kobe and his need to trust his teammates and pass the ball more; no matter if they miss the shot (just pass more). Don't get me wrong I think Kobe in my opinion is the best player in the league and arguably the best player to ever play the game. I also must say that I am a Laker Fan, so no matter who is on the team, I call it like I see it.

I watched most, if not all the games last season and there was not one time I didn’t yell at my TV, "Kobe that man was wide open, pass the rock that would have been an easy bucket". Granted I know a lot of you will say he didn’t have a choice no one could hit a shot, but as I have said in past posts that as a player if you don't get any touches its hard to stay in the game, which leads me to the reason I posted this topic.

I was reading the sports page about the World games and the US put a whoopin' on Australia, and D Wade was quoted saying "Today was the best we played as a unit, with everyone making the extra pass, getting the guys the best shot possible," Wade said. "When you do that, it makes your team play that much better because everyone feels good, everyone's involved, one through 12. That's what we're looking for."

So my final thoughts are we have a great team right now, no matter who stays and who goes at this point because of our core, but if we get the leader (Kobe) to think along those lines as the US team we would be a force to be reckoned with in the west.

My two cents for free…

Thoughts?

BK,

Since our line of thinking is not really that far apart and we both give importance to the value of education perhaps, there is a need to adjust the CBA rules:

1. Rookies should be immediately included in the union since they are bona fide players in the NBA. However, we are in a free society like in an office athmosphere, some people do not believe in unionism yet they enjoy the benefits that the union has bargained for their employment.

2. Once a team drafted a player, the team owns the rights of that player if the team decide to sign him. If still unsigned at the start of the season, another team would like to acquire the unsigned player, there has to be a negotiable compensation either a player trade or Cash to get his rights within the three year period.

3. The college rule with regards to scholarship should be scrapped if the team decides not sign the drafted player. It doesn't make any sense in holding a player while he is in hiatus or in limbo, no where to go except bum around and become a professional SPL player with $100 per diem during the SPL season (that pay cannot really feed a family or even himself if it includes accommodation in Long Beach) or go to Europe or anywhere to try his basketball luck, so why not let this unsigned but drafted player to resume his unfinished schooling w/ basketball scholarship. However, if he is signed then he has forfeited the basketball scholarship because he is already under a contract and gets due compensation even if he's not included in the roster.

I think those are the slight ramifications I could think of, to bridge the interest of the team as well as the players involved.

Nice one Andrew Z!

Looks like we need a college player's rights thread.

A Jordan Farmar is Steve Nash reincarnated thread.

A KG to LA thread.

A LakerTom thread (boy sure can type).

and finally, a " I'm a secret Kobe lover, but am afraid to come out" thread for Sonny.

Where is the next "Know Thy Enemy", the natives are getting restless.............

Blaze1bx- if Kobe were playing ball with the other FIBA players, he, too would've been receptive to the team concept. I recall when he first accepted the invitation to play, he was quoted as saying, "I will do whatever they need me to, even if that means playing the Point." As if to suggest, I don't need to be the main guy, whatever. That's how badly he wanted to be a part of this team. So, I respectively disagree with any notion that Kobe would not have bought into the team concept and I recall as many games last year too where I found myself yelling at the tv screen when Kobe didn't pass the ball as well as the many times he did and the supporting cast clanked and or fumble passes and blew perfect opportunities. For the most part, averaging 4.5 assists (KOBE) could've easily been 6, 7 or 8 a game if we had executed as a team. I think that'll change this year but at the same time, it was not Kobe's job to facilitate the offense - yet he somehow managed to end up doing it in many of the games. So in that regard, I still feel he did exceptionally well and had great numbers to back that up.

Kenny A (while a Queens product like myself) I will pass. He is old and we have 65 guards on this team..We are going to war with what we have and when we are holding that Larry O'brien up at the end of the season, no one will even remember petitioning for this and every other has been!!!

GO LAKERS, Kobe24 2007 MVP!

Great Kobe interview!

Can you believe that Tiger Woods? LOL! HE'S GREAT!

mike

LakerFan4Life,

I agree with you. I think we saw a little bit of it during the Phoenix series with Kobe really making more of an effort to get his teammates involved, and we saw guys like Luke and LO carry the teams at times.

Now, it was forced a bit more against the Suns because we were really, REALLY trying to control the tempo, but I think a version of that style would do wonders as opposed to Kobe jacking up 35 shots a game.

As for those in the KG-Artest debate and whether or not we could sign them as free agents...no way in hell that is happening.

For one, if KG opts out, he ain't taking the MLE. A ring wouldn't be guaranteed with the Lakers and leaving $36 million on the table is just too much, for anyone. Artest probably will opt out of his deal but only because he is grossly underpaid as a player due to his psycotic nature. He has said he is retiring a Sacramento King and chances are he'll opt out and sign and near max extension.

As for the salary cap and how the Lakers stand, this has been beaten to death here in the past, but just to remind everyone, we have $52.3 million dollars in guaranteed contracts for next year, and that's only for 6 players. Since the cap will be around $55 million, we shouldn't count on signing anyone of consequence for that $3 mil a year (let alone KG or Ron-Ron). I know Grant's contract comes off the books, but we are so far over the cap this year that the only thing it does is move us farther away from the luxury tax, we still won't be able to do much with it in terms of players.

lakersrydeordie,

I agree with your opinion 100%, why did you direct your last post at ME? I've never once called Kobe a ball-hog and I also felt that Kobe was sincere when he stated that he'd do "whatever it takes" to benefit the "team."

P.S. Shout out to NYC.

this annoyed me for some reason, jack nicholson says his first love is the Yankees, not the Lakers...

http://nymag.com/guides/fallpreview/2006/movies/19704/

AK/BK

im slightly curious as to what words or ideas are deemed offensive and unpublishable here as i have had one post not published for language (i assume) yet i see other posts with similar language all the time. . .

so i guess you could say im confused

enlightenment would be nice

i guess