Exhelodrvr,

"If Pinnock is good, then he will be asked by other teams. If he is that good, he can work outside of US."

Now we're getting closer with our arguments. That's the whole problem we don't know whether there was a team out there asking for him. The fellow cannot go abroad yet because there is no word of his release, they still continue playing him for the preseason. Now do you get my point, there is absolutely a sound of silence where this organization is heading with all the stock of guards and 18players in preseason, more will join from SPL team. I'm not promoting Pinnock to become a Laker, as I said if the fellow is not ripe then release him now or get another player that will support Kobe and LO to get to our coveted goal. Thank you there is this blog if not, no Laker fan would ever know the machinations going on yet they absorb the annual price increase.

LakerTom,

Your figure for the Kamenetzky are understated, what $1.75M ONLY, they are two at least $ 2.0M plus, eventually they need a league of editors just to manage this blog. This is gold mine that Kamanetzky struck to discover LakerTom and Mike T.

Now with regards to the rule, I understand that there is a risk for getting to the draft and possibly forfeiting the scholarship rights. If you ask owners of the Lakers such Jerry Bush, Magic and AEG, I don't think they will hold any player like Mitch K. does. During the time of Jerry West, we did not think of these scenarios because he's a straight shooter. He knows what he wants and decide immediately. In the case of Mitch K. he made blunders in the past for making hasty decisions now he's too cautious but time over run him and he missed all the good guys. With Pinnock, there is no problem if we don't get him but don't let the fellow drag his future by indecisiveness. First of all, if he likes Pinnock why not give him a little contract as much as $ 250K; Secondly, if Mitch has plans for everyone then communicate to the reporters especially that he missed getting Al Harrington, where are the Lakers heading? Thirdly, we have now a blog which acts as the gatekeepper for the officials and the players as well as the fans. These are no longer the 90's when nobody questions decisions coming from the Front Office except those sport columnists and broadcasters, today it is a free for all. If you are a Laker official and made a decision, you have to ask yourself "Can you defend this with the Laker fans in the blog? The future could be more daring since news will come from the blog, Q & A will be instant, that's what technology is doing. Therefore, having said that, Mitch K. has to adjust with the changing times.

Edwin:

I think the Lakers roster at this point is pretty well set. From the information we have been given by the K-Brothers, Eric Pincus, and Roland Lazenby we are looking at the following 15 players as our roster (inactive list in parentheses and ignore the depth chart if you don’t agree):

1 – Farmar, Smush, Williams, (McKie)
2 – Kobe, Evans, (Sasha)
3 – Vlade, Luke
4 – Lamar, Turiaf, (Cook)
5 – Kwame, Mihm, Bynum

You have to realize that these guys are not clueless. They all have agents who have probably explained what is going on and what their options are going to be.

McKie knows that the Lakers won’t pay him to go away so and he probably knows due to his age and injury history that this is his last year. He is a class guy and will therefore try to help make the year successful by being a positive influence so that he can possibly land an assistant's coaching job in Philly. And the $2.5M he will be paid this year should let him continue to smile.

Sasha knows that the chances of making the active roster are now much tougher than last year and that the chances that the Lakers will exercise the team option to pay him $1.8M next year are slim, so hopefully he has been working hard on his game in hopes of changing the Lakers opinions of him. As a European, Sasha may already have places overseas where he knows he can continue to make money and try to improve. And the $973K he will make this year should keep him smiling.

Same with Cook, who realizes that Vlade’s signing has left him in a vulnerable position. He knows the chances are that the Lakers will not give him a qualifying offer and let him become a free agent next year. He is probably planning right now how he can up his play in his contract year. He knows he can shoot the ball and that there will always be a place for a shooter. And the $1.5M he will make sitting on the inactive list until somebody is injured will sit just fine with him.

Pinnock also probably realizes that he will not be invited to camp and is also already discussing with his agent where to play next year so that he can prove to the Lakers he deserves to be on the roster. He is probably happy that at least one team in the NBA thought enough of him to have him drafted #58 out of 60 and traded to them. And maybe, if he is real lucky, a roster spot will magically open up for him.

Jim Jackson already has his agent exploring where he could play next year to continue getting a check while Von Wafer is probably just working on his half court shot and living off the $665K he was paid last year to be on our practice squad, and Devin Green is hoping and praying – with Danillo Pinnock – that Mike. T’s imaginary trade somehow opens up a spot so that he won’t have to scramble for a job and will be able to continue to make the $665K we paid him last year. And you can be sure that all three guys have an agent working to get them the best possible spot if it is not with the Lakers.

I am sure that there are some posters who are currently looking for a new job or new opportunity and I seriously doubt if they have a professional agent looking out to make sure they land on their feet and get a chance to make big money.

Tom

Lakertom,

Based on the trends, I agree with you. Pinnock, Green, VW are longshots. They could not dispense Mckie, since he's contracted of $2M and probably no team is interested on him. He's also getting another ton of money from his fat contract with Philly. LakerTom, this is what summer is all about in the blog, speculating here and there and I know you tinkering the imaginations of people who are anti-Farmar to start, just to be relieved from the boring hot weather. You and I belonged to the old school where there were few players to choose from and fans were not as demanding as they are today. We were definitely spoiled by the Laker greats like: Bill Sharman, Jerry West and Chick Hearns, these guys are daring especially Chickie baby. I wonder if Chick is one of the K-Bros., I'm sure he would ask directly the Front Office, not minding the protocol or condon sanitaire but he would not leave any questions unanswered or speculate ad infinitum, that's why the fans really love him and miss him for those three decades of faithful and honest service.

LakerTom,
By overrated I was referring to the potential for someone actually achieving it. Overrated was a poor choice of words.

"On the other hand, getting a free or subsidized college education in return for playing the game you would play for free is not really that bad a deal, provided that they really did get that education, which is the only complaint that I have against the current system."

Agreed; the actual education a significant portion of these players get is pitiful.

Edwin:

You raised a very interesting point about the Lakers Blog being a goldmine. After all, we know the LA Times is not a charitable organization. I wonder how much actual advertising revenue the LA Times is getting for all of the hits the blog is attracting. Web advertising is definitely directly tied to hits and more hits definitely mean more money.

In fact, maybe my last "joking" post about AK and BK being paid by the number of posts generated might be the "real" truth about the K-Bros and the Lakers Blog. It really makes sense. That is why AK always disagrees with my "optimistic" posts. He knows that will drive me crazy and make me post like a maniac. He and BK (and their agent or agents) are probably laughing all the way to the bank. This is almost funny as Nick shouting “Cancun” in the huddle. I can just see AK and BK clapping their hands in glee and shouting “Bling, Bling” at their computers every time that we post.

Taking this post to its next logical step, are you familiar with the use of “Props” in casinos? Props are players who are hired by the casinos to sit in poker games to make sure there are enough players and to add interest. Props work regular 8 hour shifts for which they receive payment from the casino but actually play with their own bankroll.

It is entirely possible that I may be a “Prop” hired by the K-Brothers to spike the blog with outlandish predictions and unrealistic assessments of the Lakers in order to generate more posts, which will generate more advertising dollars, which will generate more K-Bros income. But then, I wonder which other posters might also be K-Bros props. There is this guy Edwin, who always has something to say about everything…

If we now suddenly get a new thread on an entirely different subject, it may well be because this post is getting a little too close to the truth for comfort.

Tom

Mike T:

Not as imaginary as the Lakers trading for Darius Miles. LOL.

Tom

Laker Tom,

What I do is called a proposal. What you're saying is just not going to happen. Whether you like it or not Mihm is gone! As is Cook and someone else.

mike

Faith,

We're not sure yet the final fate of Pinnock, he will still play in the preseason. He is not entirely Byron Scott, well is a great role player and I didn't see perfection on those shots. However, Pinnock has better approach in going to the hoop than Byron when he was new and acquired from the San Diego Clippers. Pinnock is more of an assist guard and a good rebounder cuz' he could jump high and has a court general mentality in distributing the ball. That's the reason why his APG is 3.1 at Washington Colonials.

LakerTom,

Did you notice eversince you joined the blog, there no more stopping? We either hynotized or drugged by the K-Bros, the more you post, the more addicted you are. The K-Bros are the conductor and they know how to tease the main attractions like LakerTom and Mike T. to create circus of post that sounds like rat...tat..tat..tat..tat!!! In the case of the K-Bros it's music in their ears like playing casino machines hitting the jackpot. You better erase those cookies Tom, I noticed I'm getting a lot of emails offering sports paraphernalias. Haha

Marcus,
"...I think every guard except Kobe will have to prove his value & fight for minutes this year."

Yes, some will argue but this team has improved. There will be more competion. Mike T. correctly identified the three that are least likely to remain with the team past this year-McKie, Cook & Vujacic. Another trade could happen before training camp; it could be before the trading deadline, but these three will all certainly be gone by end of season. We dont know who or what we will get in return but surely Mitch is working on deals as we speak and will continue through the year. His job is to improve this team. He has done that this year and will continue to do that. Pinnock, Green and Profit will all get a chance to play, if that is meant to be. Let's be patient with our hopes for an all-star savior (Garnett-Artest) to match with Kobe and Lamar. And finally a reminder to Edwin-Pinnock is likely to have a good professional career. He is certainly no poor immigrant coming to work in the fields and vineyards. Most professional players will make in one year, more than you and I will make in our lifetime. Seriously, what is there to feel sorry about?

LakerTom
Now that you will be our agent, we can call ourselves, Bloggers United, or something catchy like that. Maybe we can even have a naming contest with the winner getting a free trip to Vegas to wager on the odds you provided earlier.
Hmmmmm, maybe we can even get NorCal and Socal united in this effort-Kind of like Kings and Lakers playing on one team! Man, the ideas are just going crazy in my head! Maybe even get Sunny involved! Opps, I think I've had too much wine to drink tonight.

Now, were you saying something about Farmer being better than Smush?.....

LakerAl,

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Once a team is at, or over the cap, they can no longer sign outside players for more than the exceptions. Since the Lakers are basically at the cap, they can use the MLE, which would take them over the cap but under the luxury tax. That $10 million you're talking about is more of a "buffer" than anything, and can't be looked at as possible player contract money.

Sorry. The Lakers aren't getting anyone of consequence unless they sign for the MLE.

LakerAl:

I recently went over our salary situation in detail and also reviewed the CBA rules about free agents. Bottom line is that all we will be able to offer at the end of this year, even after losing Brian Grant’s $15M salary, is the MLE again. Because we signed Shammond with our BAE, we will not be able to use that until the following year. Here is how it works:

(1) Add up the salaries of the guys under contract for next year.

Kobe $19.4M
Lamar $13.5M
Kwame $9.1M
Vlade $5.2M
Bynum $2.2M (assuming we exercise team option)
Evans $1.5M
Farmar $1.0M

Total is $51.9M (these all count since we have to pay them)

(2) Add up the last salary of the guys who are free agents:

Mihm $4.2M
McKie $2.5M
Williams $1.8M
Walton $1.3M
Cook $2.2M (assuming we do not make qualifying offer)
Vujacic $1.8M (assuming we do not exercise team option)
Parker $0.8M
Turiaf $0.6M

Total is $15.2M (this is called the free agent amount and gets added when figuring a team's salary cap so that we cannot sign other free agents and then later re-sign our own guys)

Grand total is $67.1M (this is the figure we will have to face)

Since we are over the salary cap of (let’s estimate $57M for next year, was $53.1M TYR and $49.5M LYR), we cannot sign anybody unless we use:

(1) MLE – Mid level exception, which is the average salary. In other words, if you are over the cap, you cannot sign any body better salary-wise than an average player.

(2) Bird Rights – Meaning our own free agents, who we can re-sign with no problem except that their salaries DO get counted when figuring out if we have to pay a luxury tax, which we will estimate for next year at $68M (is $65.4M TYR and $61.7M LYR.)

Thus, we will be over salary cap but probably under luxury tax barely. Teams that are over luxury tax can still use their MLE and Bird Rights to sign players.

Last year, these teams paid luxury tax:

Knicks ($37.2), Mavs ($17.3), Magic ($7.8), Pacers ($4.7), Grizzlies ($3.7), Spurs ($0.9)

Hope that clears up the confusion about free agents next year. As you can see, with Kobe’s and Lamar’s and Kwame’s salaries, there isn’t a lot left over.

The only other way we can get a player who earns more than the MLE, therefore, would be to trade Mihm, Cook, and McKie, for example, before the mid-season trading deadline... or work out a sign and trade for them once they become free agents.

Tom

LakerAl:

I would love to represent Bloggers United but I already work for the K-Bros as their "Prop" to create controversy and interest in the blog and wake up the naturally conservative Laker fans and incite outraged posts from them. By the way, I get paid by the number of Farmar comments that I can generate.

Tom

LakerAl,

I can see where the confusion comes from, basically the second half of LakerTom's statement where he adds up our expiring contracts and adds them to our payroll. This isn't technically happening, but what it does show is that we will need to field a full 15-man roster and since we only have 6 guys that cost about $50 million, we have to assume that the other nine guys we'll put on the squad will cost about the $15 million or so LakerTom showed.

Really, as far as our cap space is concerned, it is a bleak picture. Without trading LO, Kwame, or Kobe we should all get used to this roster because it ain't going to change much over the next two years, we just don't have the cap space to make it happen. I think using the MLE could be beneficial, I liked the Vlad addition, but that's the level of players we're likely to see added in the next couple of years.

exhelodrvr,

Anytime someone talks about free agency and the salary cap it's a brutal reminder how much of the franchise's success is tied up in Lamar Odom and Kwame Brown.

Andrew Z:

"I can see where the confusion comes from, basically the second half of LakerTom's statement where he adds up our expiring contracts and adds them to our payroll. This isn't technically happening."

Unfortunately, it IS technically happening. A team's salary cap figure is always the sum of its contracted amounts plus what is called the "Free Agent amount," which represents the contracts of the team's free agents who have NOT signed with another team. The reason for this is to prevent us being below the cap technically and signing other team's free agents first and then coming back and signing our own with the Bird exception. From you NBA Salary Cap FAQ site:

"29. Can a team sign all the free agents it wants (up to the cap limit) and THEN re-sign its own free agents using the Bird exception?

Yes, but there's a restriction. A team's free agents continue to count as team salary (against the salary cap). This charge is called the "free agent amount." So there may not be enough money under the cap to sign another team's free agent, because the team's own free agents are taking up all their cap room."

Tom

LakerTom,

I think I'm confused. At what point then do our free agents contracts, when they expire, not count against our cap? Whether it's a specified date or any other way, there has to be a point where they don't count against us. Maybe like you said, when we renounce their rights, or maybe it has something to do with being restricted or unrestricted. Either way, those contracts come off the books sometime.

LakerTom,
"The only way we will be able to upgrade the team will be via the MLE or a trade"
It seems to me management is gambling on the team upgrading by the current roster improving. To be a serious contender by next year (yes, that means this year they are NOT serious contenders), they need the following by 2007-8:

Significant improvement by Brown or Mihm
Significant improvement by Farmar or Parker
Some improvement by Vlad
Significant improvement by Walton or Turiaf
Some improvement by Lamar

That would give them a strong starting lineup and a decent bench. (There is an assumption in the "significant improvement by X or Y" pairings that the one who doesn't improve significantly will improve at least somewhat, and will thus be an adequate substitute.) I see the "other guards" as players who aren't going to improve much at this stage of their careers, and are probably just placeholders. Sacha improving would be a bonus, but I think he will lose out in the playing time area.

It is extremely unlikely that all those improvements will happen by the playoff next spring, which is why I don't see them as contenders yet this year.

LakerTom, Andrew Z, Exhelodrvr:
Thanks for all of your input regarding the cap.

As I tried to say yesterday and probably did a very poor job, the whole idea behind teams having interest in players with expiring contracts, is primarily a desire for cap relief. Therefore, avoiding the luxury tax has been a prime motivation for most teams. One way to reduce your chances of paying the luxury tax the next year is to trade a long term contract for an expiring contract. This is done all the time. As example, last season Orlando acuired Penny Hardaway's large expiring contract from NY exactly for that reason. Orlando's whole purpose was to get their salary structure back under control and try to get back under the basic cap figure. Grant's contract though different in many ways, has been a similar roadblock to the Laker's obtaining cap relief and entering the free agent market.

Below, once again, are the Lakers players with expiring contracts or similar situations:

Grant-Mihm-McKie-Williams-Walton-Parker
Cook: (has a qualifying offer for next year)
Vujacic: (has a team option for next year)
Wafer: (has a non-guaranteed contrat this season)

The only player remotely close to being a keeper at this time is Walton. So I cannot understand any argument that suggests that these players should be counted against the cap when there is no rational reason to maintain their rights. We really dont need more role players. Role players are relatively easy to acquire. We need star players and that is what we should be seeking in free agency, whether its Artest, Boozer or KG.

Most if not all of these players could easily be RENOUNCED, to bring us closer to the basic cap level. That should only be done, IF the team has a realistic opportunity to acquire a star player. A RENOUNCEMENT is clearly allowed by the CBA and is defined under Question 33(and was briefly mentioned by Tom yesterday)

Again, folks, there are no all-stars on our list of expiring contracts. We are not going anywhere with a team of role-players! This team has to continue to improve. We need at least one more really good player. Everyone should be in agreement on that. If it takes RENOUNCING all of these, then that's what the team must do. Mitch K is not stupid. He will sacrifice mediocre talent every day and Sunday to improve this team if possible. You and I would do the same!

The problem we face is not the cap, because that now appears manageable. In my opinion, the big hurdle will be finding key players like Garnett, Artest, or (insert name), who will come and play for us next year. Again, there appears to be means within the CBA to continue our cap management efforts through careful trades, not incurring additional salary debt, and renouncement of our expiring contracts. By the way, even with renouncement there are still ways to get them back or to use them in sign and trade agreements, according to the CBA. Read It! We can manage that. But we cannot begin making excuses for failure and unwillingness to go after quality players that would oherwise be available to us. THAT would be criminal! OK, Let's Roll!

LakerAl,
"The only player remotely close to being a keeper at this time is Walton"
Not true. At this point, Mihm is a better center than Kwame. If Kwame doesn't improve this season, and Bynum continues to progress slowly, the Lakers will probably re-sign Mihm, which won't hurt them from a salary cap perspective since he is their own free agent. Then they will look to trade Kwame (who would be an attractive option to another team because of his large, expiring contract). If Bynum improves significantly, or Kwame improves to the point that he is better than Mihm, than they will let Mihm go. (Or possibly trade him late this season depending on the playoff prospects of this year's team.)