Contract Shtuff
Thought y'all might find this article interesting for a few reasons.
1) Well, it's interesting.
2) It mentions Kobe (in a positive light) and Kwame (not so much) by name.
3) It makes you think about both the contracts of newest Lakers player Vlad Radmanovic and the non-contracts of players such as Antonio Daniels, Marcus Banks and even Caron Butler, all of whom would have liked to have been Lakers, but were deemed unworthy of the theoretical price, length of stay, or both. And given that it'll be a piece of time before the Lakers are well under the cap, it's a topic that will probably end up heavily discussed for a few seasons.
—AK






Well I think we can all agree that Kobe is definitely worth the money.
Posted by: davyjones | August 08, 2006 at 01:25 PM
I'm not one to usually defend Kwame Brown, but based on the market rate for a big man in the league, I think it's fair to say he's not overpaid. Sure, he takes up a huge chunk of cap space, but we need a big man, and if someone is willing to pay $10 million for Nene or $11 for Tyson Chandler, who's to say that Kwame is a rip off at $8.5? By the end of that contract he might be the biggest bargain in the league.
In regards to Mitch Kupchak, I think he does a good job putting together a team with the payroll we have. We're obviously paying $15 million for a guy who isn't on the team, but take that away and it's a financially well balanced team.
I'd like to see a list of which players were the best "value" in the league last year, where it shows there production on a per dollar basis. My guess is Smush Parker is in the top 10.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 08, 2006 at 01:37 PM
Andrew Z,
I totally agree with you about MY MAN SMUSH!!!! He did what we asked of him, and more last year, and barely had his contract guaranteed. Yeah, he definitely belongs on that list. I also think Ron Artest should be on that list too. Dude is easily one of the top 10 players in the league, and argubly the best defender, but doesn't have a max contract. Teams looking to get him when he's a free agent are going to have to be able to shell out BIG DOLLARS.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 08, 2006 at 02:00 PM
AK,
If New York is beyond the cap space, how do they manage still get Jared Jeffries with multi-year contracts?
With regards to Lakers, if the NY Sun treats Kwame as cap killer, then Bryant Grant could be the cap serial killer since '05 and still on the loose in '06. lol!
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | August 08, 2006 at 02:01 PM
Edwin,
Jeffries was an MLE signing.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 08, 2006 at 02:05 PM
I agree with Andrew Z....woe....that's scary (LOL).
I do agree though that Mitch K. does an excellent job of putting the right players for the money we have available on the team. What many of you fail to realize normally is that things change from year to year causing the course of actions to be altered as well. Right now, it would seem that having Caron Bulter and Antonio Daniels on the team would have been the wise choice. However, the Lakers had no idea how things were going to play out last year. If the rumors were in fact true, they were waiting to see how the heavy hitters would decide their future destinations. IF the Lakers had signed certain contracts last year not knowing the outcome of them and then missed out on them because of it, we would have been complaining about that. Instead they went with safe choices last year waiting.
Now that things have played out, along with how well the Lakers played last season, they are now moving forward quickly. I honestly believe that the PROJECT has exceeded where they thought it would be at this point. Instead of it being possibly a 3 or 4 year plan, they are starting to believe that it could be a 2 or 3 years plan instead. That changes the decisions that they make.
As far as Kwame Brown is concerned, last year should not be used as a guage of his total worth. How can we expect a player that has had a poor showing consistently since entering the league to turn it around during 1 summer and tear up the league the following year simply because he switched addresses? VERY rarely does that ever happen. Instead, he had a gradually improving season last year and now can build on that. In years past he was hit hard by criticism and uncertainty. This coming year he will be entering as the probably starting center and will be expected/expecting major minutes on a nightly basis. He will also know what expectations are there as well as what system to run. I'm expecting major things from him this next season. Now, that doesn't mean an all-star season....the Lakers don't need that. They need a solid season, which he can provide.
Some of you have a serious problem of placing unnecessary requirements on guys. When you have a main player that is going to give you 30 a night, and a second player that is going to give you 15 a night, that's roughly half of your total output. Why would you want or think it necessary to have another player supply you with 20 a night which is a typical all-star output? If the remaining 10 players average a combined 55 points a night, that would mean 100 points a night for the Lakers. Take that 55 and divide it by 10 and you will see that less than 6 points a person a night would make up that 55 points.
As far as Andrew Bynum is concerned, I feel the same way about him as I do Kwame. When are we going to stop pressuring young players to produce quickly? Many times, when young players fail, a major reason is the others around them and the negative affects that they have had on them. AB is a young...very young....project that has shown signs of potential, yet potential does not mean reality now. I don't like it that Phil brings guys like Bynum along slow, but I do understand his reasoning. A guy that is 18 or 19, in theory has 17 to 20 years in this league depending on injury. That's a lot of seasons. Why bring them along rapidly and lead to them not lasting as long? A report came out the other day which spoke on the mileage that has been produced by Kobe Bryant's body. Just based on figures....he is possibly only going to be ale to offer serious production for another 5 to 8 seasons. That would mean 35. That is because of how much he has had to go through. No one says anything about it, but look at how many seasons, MJ played all together. He had 2 full seasons of rest plus some extra time out and still only played 12 seasons. How many players have played more than that? My point is that Bynum is being brought along slowly for his own benefit in the long run and I think it's a great move. I predict that he will be a force in this league in years to come. Think about it.....how many plus 7-footers are currently in the league at center? How many of them are power players? Even dwight Howard is only 6'11". When Bynum gets into his own, he will own this league because he was taught the basics and learned things at a decent pace.
Finally, as I have stated before, I like the Al Harrington trade talk. I believe that he would be a solid pickup for the Lakers. I don't believe that the money should be a factor if you are looking at championship potential within the next 2 years. I believe that he can fit into the system because of his versatility. Coming with a 3-headed monster of Lamar, Vlade and Al, would be the strongest forward core in the league. There is no other team in the league that would impose as equal a forward core. If Kobe can provide 25 to 30 points a night, and the 3-Headed Monster provide an additional 45 points a night, that would mean 70 to 75 points by those 4 players. Can you imagine how dangerous that could be? If the remaining lineup can't provide 25 points a night, something is wrong with them. I can't see why they couldn't. I like Harrington, and hope the Lakers work the deal.
Posted by: JJ | August 08, 2006 at 02:14 PM
AK
Do we have a chance to get Tony Kukoc? I read that Kareem Rush might be on his way back to LA?
Posted by: rayray | August 08, 2006 at 02:21 PM
Andrew Z ... I agree. The Lakers do a good job managing the payroll and associated talent of their roster ... without committing to too many extremely long contracts. Radmonovic at 5 years - $30 million is not such a risk because he is tradable at that level. The Brian Grant situation is unfortunate, but that was apparently necessary, and they cut their losses by taking advantage of the "Allan Houston rule". Other than that, they really do not have any bad contracts to speak of (now that Devean George is gone).
Certain positions (and skills) happen to command different salaries at different times ... no different than with any industry job markets (supply / demand). Therefore, Kwame Brown at 3 years - $26 million (or so) is reasonable for "his" market. Devean George at 2 years - $4.2 million is a waste of money. Odom at his contract is worth it considering the limited supply of forwards who can play both the 3 and 4, defend reasonably well, rebound, and pass, etc. John Salmons (combo guard) at 5 years - $25.5 million is a waste of money.
High demand (limited supply) and low demand (good supply) examples are as follows:
Limited supply: Smart, experienced and proven point guards who pass first and shoot second; play D. I believe Farmar will be this type of player.
Good supply: Combo guards without a particular high level specialty (3-pt shot; defense).
Limited supply: Tall (6-9 to 6-10) small forwards who can shoot the 3 and run the floor. Radmonovic, Stojakovic are such players.
Good supply: Athletic or even skilled 6-6 to 6-8 small forwards. These are unfortunately a dime-a-dozen. Caron Butler, a nice player, was not worth securing for this reason. He could be replaced with relative ease. Luke Walton (size limitation, skilled, but slow) may be expendable for this reason too (if he could play more 2, different story).
Limited supply: Power forwards with size who can rebound and defend and have some shooting range (Carlos Boozer, maybe Drew Gooden, Lamar Odom is in this category and can play 3 and even 1!).
Good supply: Power forwards who have no special characteristics other than size or have limited shooting range. Examples are Chris Wilcox, Reggie Evans ... having trouble getting the contracts they think they should have.
Limited supply: Centers who can play D and play significant minutes without fouling out. Kwame is in this category ... 3 years - $26 million (or so) is reasonable. Also centers who can score and do one other thing (like rebound or play D are of course extremely limited in supply; Yao Ming, Shaq).
Leo
Posted by: Leo | August 08, 2006 at 02:29 PM
I would have taken Kareem before getting Maurice Evans, but now, he isn't necessary.
The Lakers have a great group of players. The only change I would want right now is possibly adding Al Harrington. He is a quality player that hasn't reached the point that the Lakers can't afford him.
The problem with most teams trying to win a championship is that they wait until players are on the back end of their careers before they pull them in. Tat gives you a small window of opportunity. The Heat are an example of that. They forfeited their future to win now.
Sure they won 1, but could they have won 3 or 4 if they had simply waited? They had a young D-Wade, Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. Look at what they could have had by now. They could have gotten a free agent center.
My point is that the Lakers are putting a nice mix of young with older and experienced. Even the experienced players are still young.
The only guy I would still like to see is Harrington, and i will explain why and how he would work out in a later post.
In fact, I would like to create a new blog subject for it if AK and BK would let me.
Posted by: JJ | August 08, 2006 at 02:30 PM
Rayray,
I've never heard anything about them being interested in Kukoc, and I can't see why they'd sign him. He's well past his prime and they already have Vlad and Cook to shoot 3's. His knowledge of the triangle shouldn't be that big a plus, considering the majority of guys likely to get big minutes (Kobe, LO, Kwame, Smush, Luke, etc.) have already played a year in it.
As for Rush, I've heard they're both interested and not interested. Phil seems to like players he's already worked with. I'd personally be lukewarm at best about bringing Rush in. He still shoots at a bad percentage, he more or less did nothing with L.A. (outside of one big game in the playoffs) and I don't think he's improved much as a player. And while Phil questioned the timing when Bickerstaff waived him (and Phil's got a point), he also questioned Rush's work ethic in his book. But beyond all that, I don't know where they'd find a roster spot for him.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 08, 2006 at 02:32 PM
JJ,
Harrington's been discussed heavily the last few days, so I don't think a new thread is needed (unless there's some new developments, since I imagine the chances of him actually landing in L.A. are mighty slim). But feel free to talk about it here. There are no rules about staying 100% on a thread topic.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 08, 2006 at 02:37 PM
Kobe is worth it.
Kwame is leaning back and forth. We shall see this season what he's about. Briant Grant is what kills the lakers.
Posted by: derek | August 08, 2006 at 03:08 PM
The problem with the Kwame contract is the third year that they gave him.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 08, 2006 at 03:14 PM
I have to say I'm surprised, particularly by Andrew Z. I expected a verbal flogging for guaranteeing Kwame's contract, for trading for Brian Grant and for our salary cap problems. But it's all good.
I think under certain circumstances (like you know who demanding 30 mil a year that would have strapped us till the end of time)...we're doing pretty good. As it stands, we got good players for the least amount of money this season...I mean Vlad Rad for the MLE? I've been hearing and hearing how he's going to be better than Peja, and Peja got paid a whole lot. So in the sense, good shtuff!
As for paying for what you have, man I'd be sooo bummed if I was a Knicks fan, cause if there ever was a franchise that pays for nothing...that's it LOL.
Posted by: Faith | August 08, 2006 at 03:16 PM
JJ,
There are worst things than agreeing with me :)
I also liked your claim that maybe this "project" that the Lakers front office had on their hands is moving quicker than they expected. If that's the case, I wonder if they would have drafted different when they picked Bynum. I'm not saying how I feel about him either way, but drafting Danny Granger instead would make our team look really damn good right about now. Just food for thought.
Leo,
I liked your breakdown, it made a lot of sense. When you start analyzing players and rosters in a more business-like sense, it's easier to understand some of the moves GM's make (except Isaiah). but as far as value is concerned, I would say that the verdict is still out on Lamar Odom. I love LO's game, but at about $14 million a year, you have to think we should be getting a bit more production out of him. I know he brings a lot to the table, but intangibles don't cost that much, he needs to vastly improve his numbers this year.
Weave-Man,
Artest is breaking the bank next time around, you can count on that. I was hoping we would ahve the cap space to give him the dough, but it doesn't look like it.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 08, 2006 at 03:22 PM
Faith,
Come on, I'm not that bad! As for the Kwame deal, it's completely one way or the other. It's going to be the best contract in the league or the worst. I'm hoping it turns out for the best. As for our cap situation, we're in the same boat as mostly everyone else, which bodes well for us because outside of a couple teams we'll be offerring the same amount of money to free agents (the MLE) in the next couple years. If we progress as a team and look like a possible contender, our MLE will look more attractive than other MLE's and maybe we get the cream of the 'above average' player crop and things work out.
Besides, the only way for us to do anything in the free agent market for the next few years would be to deal LO for cap space. And if he starts the next season like he ended last we won't want to trade him.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 08, 2006 at 03:31 PM
1) We should sign Kareem Rush
2) To the end of my days, I will never understand how we took on Brian Grant's contract
3) LeBron James will be a Laker someday. My family knows people from his family and he grew up a diehard Lakers fan.
4) Rad Vlad was a far better pick-up than most people realize.
5) I've got Bio-Chrono readings to do on Farmar and Rad Vlad (aka Dark Fire), but I've been too damned lazy recently.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon Kavulic | August 08, 2006 at 03:33 PM
Faith, Vlad isn't the shooter Peja is, and I haven't seen anything that indicates that he can do anything else well. I'm really not sold on this guy, never have been.
He might be healthier than Peja, but will he be as effective? I think that's questionable. I know a lot of people here have been psyched we signed him, but I suspect that's just because we signed someone with a name we recognize...
Posted by: Michael A | August 08, 2006 at 04:02 PM
Weave-Man
now i love Ron Artest. he's one of my fav players, but to call him "easily top 10" is well... just funny. he might crack top 20 but even that wont be "easily".
lets just throw out some names... not in any order
kobe
wade
lebron
brand
shaq
amare
marion
d. howard
ak 47
t mac
AI
Pierce
Arenas
Bosh
Yao
chris pual
j kidd
KG
Duncan
Dirk
that's already 20 and those are just the obvious ones. so in conclusion... not so "easily top 10"
Posted by: The Lamar Show | August 08, 2006 at 04:17 PM
I'm not convinced that Antonio Daniels or Marcus Banks would be better for our team than Vlad Radmanovic. With Caron Butler it was not just the money, he brought us Kwame who we needed (we wouldn't have been in the playoffs last year if we had Butler & Adkins instead of Kwame.)
I think some combination of Evans, Smush, Sasha, Shammond and Farmar will work out better than Daniels or Banks.
Posted by: rdlee | August 08, 2006 at 04:19 PM
Sterling can take his team and shove it!
"The Justice Department on Monday filed a discrimination suit against Los Angeles Clippers owner and real estate mogul Donald Sterling, accusing him of favoring Korean tenants while seeking to exclude African Americans and families with children from his apartment buildings in Los Angeles County."
I guess we can work for him but not rent or live on his properties... sad case!
Posted by: lakerfaze | August 08, 2006 at 04:23 PM
JJ
I agree. Miami gave up their bright future to win 1 in the present. Just think with a line up like...
Alonzo
Haslem
Odom
Butler
Wade
after playing for 3 years (end of last season), they would be top of the east anyways.
i dont like how ppl call Caron a dime a dozen. that dude was just starting to blossom. he'll avg like 22 8 4 a season soon, just watch. he's also a great guy and teammate.
Posted by: The Lamar Show | August 08, 2006 at 04:30 PM
Lamar Show,
There were quite a few guys on that list that Artest is better than. He is the best defender in the league and can give 20 points a game. If he wasn't a nut case he'd be a franchise guy.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 08, 2006 at 04:41 PM
The ebb and flow in this blog is amazing. The rumors of a possible Al Harrington sign and trade generated even more posts than last years sighting of Ron Artest at a Lakers game or the news that Kevin Garnett was buying a home in Manhatten Beach. Now Kwame is being praised for his "reasonable" salary, Andrew Bynum's head is being put on the trading block, and someone will surely start a "45-Win Bandwagon" before tomorrow.
Relax Laker fans. Ignore the doomsayers and skeptics. Put away the loaded guns and tear up the applications for Clipper tickets. Forget about Shaq, Ron Artest, and Al Harrington. They really don't matter. The Lakers are going nowhere but up this year.
Remember, we have the best basketball player in the world in Kobe Bryant. We have the best basketball owner in the NBA in Jerry Buss. We have the best coach in NBA history in Phil Jackson. We have won nine NBA championships and we will be competing for our tenth championship this year. That is what Kobe Bryant believes and says. That is what Phil Jackson believes and says. That is what Mitch Kupchak believes and says. The best is yet to come.
We won 45 games last year and finished with a record of 14 and 4 over our last 18 games, including wins over the Kings, Sun, and Clippers. We then won 3 of the first 4 games in the first round of the playoffs against the Suns, making our record 17 and 5 before youth and inexperience led to our blowing the series. We were really just one rebound from playing for a championship last year that was won by a team we could have beaten.
This year the team's returning players will come back hungrier than ever and ready to build upon the success of last year. Kobe will be a better leader and team player. Lamar will expand upon his terrific play at the end of the year. Kwame will be more confident and able to contribute. Mihm will give us a top flight backup that we missed against the Suns at the 4 and 5. Luke will continue his resurgence. Smush will regain his confidence. Sasha will continue his hot shooting from the playoffs. Turiaff, Bynum, and Cook will be looking to improve their game and contribute more.
And the great job that Mitch and the front office did over the summer will give us new energy and depth. We basically have replaced our five weakest players with new guys that can contribute. Farmar will be our first "true" point guard since Magic. Radmanovic will give us a bonafide 3-point threat and great size as the 3. Evans will give us a solid backup to rest Kobe and a defensive stopper at the guard position. Williams will give us more shooting power and experience at guard. And Profit or Pinnock will give us another strong player off the bench.
I think this year's Laker team will be dramatically stronger and deeper than last year's team. The core of the team will be unchanged and will give us the base and stability upon which championship teams are built. The continued growth of our young players plus the quality additions that we acquired during the offseason will propel the team to the next level.
To win 55 games this year versus 45 last year, we have to reverse the inexplicable losses we suffered against lessor teams last year. In the West, we have to win 3 out of 4 against Portland, split our four games against San Antonio, Phoenix, and Memphis, and match last year's record against the rest of the teams. In the East, we have to split our 2 games with the Nets, sweep our 2 games with the Bobcats, Hawks, 76ers, and Celtics, and match last year's record against the rest of the teams. That surely seems to be a very reasonable goal.
It's easy to lose sight of the big picture and get lost in the details. We are better off to keep the team we have and continue to let it grow and develop than to auction off key parts and destroy the team chemistry we have built by creating fantasy rosters like the Knicks and Celtics have been doing.
Mitch and Lakers management have really put together a well balanced team with a good mix of youth and experience that not only has the ability to compete for a championship right now but also the potential to grow into another Laker dynasty. Next year, when Farmar and Bynum have some more experience and when we lose Brian Grant's salary, we will be able to add the final piece to the puzzle in the form of a top free agent who will be better than Harrington. We need to have the patience to build a winner the right way.
Finally, just a comment on Tex Winter's sobering comments about Bynum and Farmar and the team. As Roland said in his follow-up comments to the article on LakerNoise, Tex is the guy who always delivers the hard truth to the players. That is his job and his comments came on the eve before he was to negotiate an extension to his agreement with the Lakers. You have to read through what Tex is saying to understand that he does really believe that the team has great potential.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 08, 2006 at 05:18 PM
Lamar Show,
I would take Artest over at least six people on that list that you posted. You have to remember there are only two (well at least that come to mind) players in the whole league that can kill you offensively, and shut you down defensively. We have one (who just happens to be the best player in the game), and the other is Artest. Yeah, some of those guys on your list might out score him, but I guarantee you he can shut any of those players (guards/forwards) down!!!! He brings soooo much to the game it's ridiculous.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 08, 2006 at 05:27 PM
AK,
Yours and his arguments are valid on the surface, but the reality is that the long-term contract protects players who are good (but maybe not great) from blowing out both knees. A la Brian Grant. Or even Grant Hill.
Then, again. Maybe its the name Grant that needs the protection against career threatening injuries?
-Fearless
Posted by: Fearless | August 08, 2006 at 05:40 PM
Laker Tom,
Thanks for the cool hand. The truth is, what ever players that we have on our team this year, it will be an improvement from last year. And if we don't get Al, that means that we'll have that much more money to possibly get someone better.
dan
Posted by: dan the man aka smushcalade | August 08, 2006 at 05:43 PM
lamar Show,I would argue that Artest is better than Bosh, Amare (pending his comeback from surgery), AK47, T Mac, and J Kidd. The rest of the list is debatable but he could squeak in at 9 or 10 in best in the NBA. Is he better than Shaq, Yao, D. Howard, Chris Paul, The Truth, or AI? If so, then he might be in the top ten.
Posted by: richard hines | August 08, 2006 at 05:54 PM
Lakertom,
I agree with everything you just said. Great post.
Posted by: kobe24 | August 08, 2006 at 06:04 PM
Lamar Show,
Here is my top 10 list. No certain order (except #1 of course haha).
1. Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Garnett
Nowitzki
Wade
James
Artest
Iverson
Nash
PS: And you're right. It's hard to say anyone is easily in the top 10. I think there are quite a few players like Amare (depending on his health), Carmelo, and T-Mac (also depending on health) who are on the bubble.
Posted by: Weave-Man | August 08, 2006 at 06:10 PM
We blogged about this last Spring if I recall.
I agree with Andrew Z that Artest was a top ten BARGAIN for 7 mil last year. Efficiency per dollar is, at the end of the day, the most importatnt stat. Smush did rank up there in that department as well. I think the league and players association is creaking from the changes due to loss of market share around the league. An average center may not be worth 11 mil anymore. Imagine that!
Posted by: Vman | August 08, 2006 at 06:18 PM
Lamar Show,
Too many of the guys on your list are one-dimensional and/or have poor work ethics and/or lack heart.
T-Mac, Vinsanity, Pierce, etc. come quickly to mind. When evaluating the whole game, Artest IS top 10. He's like two guys in one by NBA standards. You can't buy that, anywhere.
Artest is for real.
--Fearless
Posted by: Fearless | August 08, 2006 at 06:18 PM
You know,
I put Artest in the Kobe-esque category. Except that his primary is defense where Kobe's primary is offense. They are two sides of the same coin.
I don't even put T-Mac in Kobe's group. Artest is for real.
--Fearless
PS: I don't think he'll be a Laker though, but I dream about him being in the purple and gold.
Posted by: Fearless | August 08, 2006 at 06:31 PM
Artest is a beast and he is easily a top ten player in the league. He defends, he brings the ball up, he has a post game and prolly a B guy on his shooting range and consistency. Him and Lebron to me are the strongest F/G in the league, anybody tryin to guard them will just bounce off.
As far as the lakers and the salary cap, they are doing fine and waiting for the next free agency morantorium to spend some serious cash, hopefully.
I never liked the lakers trading Caron Butler, he reminds me of Ron Artest. They both can rebound(20 rebounds in a playoff game against the cavs), imposing physically and he has a great personality. I wish he can find his way back playing with kobe, they seem to have jelled very well before the lakers traded me. However, all is fine in Lakers now, our team will "surprise" critics again, which won't be anythinh new.
Lamar show,
I also believe the heat will eventually suffer the consequences of trading caron and lamar. Shaq and Pat Riley only wanted this ring to cement their legacy and they did, however they left the heat in a bad shape. This is why the lakers need to build a real team and if the win a championship early, good for them, which I think the can do.
Posted by: Sola | August 08, 2006 at 06:57 PM
Fearless,
What arguments of mine are you referring to? I wasn't aware I had made any. haha
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 08, 2006 at 07:01 PM
Laker Tom,
"We were really just one rebound from playing for a championship last year that was won by a team we could have beaten."
The Lakers were not better than the Suns. They caught them by surprise and then reality set in. And the Lakers would not have beaten Dallas.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | August 08, 2006 at 07:06 PM
Andrew Z
" someone is willing to pay $10 million for Nene or $11 for Tyson Chandler, who's to say that Kwame is a rip off at $8.5?"
Thats like saying we are dumb and theyre dumber. In the end it doesnt matter because theyre bad contracts unless all of these guys blow up. He might be the biggest bargain IF he finally develops but if he doesnt we wasted time and cap space that we couldve used to sign someone else. The extra $3mil that he probably doesnt deserve couldve helped secure a better PG or used for another purpose. I do agree on the whole smush thing though and here's a piece from NBADraft.net
http://nbadraft.net/2006stateofthecaplalakers001.asp
"On the other end of the spectrum is the player with the great first name, Smush Parker. The young journeyman was amazingly the third leading scorer on the team at 11.5 ppg while contributing 3.7 assists and 1.7 steals each night. Parker will be paid a mere $798,112 dollars next season, exactly 4.5% of what Kobe will make. Despite his struggles in the Suns playoff series, Smush is quite a bargain."
Smush is definetly a bargain for what he's being paid and thats why I dont trash him for his bad play in Phoenix.
Posted by: Shady | August 08, 2006 at 07:12 PM
dan:
Your are welcome. And I really DO think Smush will regain his confidence. And that Farmar WILL take his job. But bottom line that they BOTH will contribute to a great Lakers season.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 08, 2006 at 07:13 PM
kobe24:
Thanks for the support. It's easy to forget how well we really played down the road last year, especially when fans get disappointed when we are not able to sign a player they feel would improve the team.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 08, 2006 at 07:15 PM
GO LAKERS!
Will be back in 2 weeks.
mike
Posted by: michael teniente | August 08, 2006 at 07:34 PM
Exhelodrver,
I would add to your post by saying that it's a bit premature to just assume that the Lakers would just roll over the Clips, a team that also took those same Suns to 7 and managed a higher number of convincing wins. Not saying the Lakers couldn't have done it, but it's hardly a given.
The Lakers were within a rebound of the second round. That much is true. The rest they'd still have to earn.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 08, 2006 at 07:37 PM
Faith,
;-)
mike
Posted by: michael teniente | August 08, 2006 at 07:38 PM
Am I the only one who is actually grateful that Kobe is not playing for TeamUSA? I know Kobe misses being with the guys but I frankly don't want him to risk the injury or put the wear and tear on his body that is required. And I can't say that I'm sorry to see Lamar miss this year's games. An injury to either of these guys would kill our chance of competing for a championship this year.
You know that the Nuggets had to be holding their breath seeing Carmello leave the game with a knee injury -- right after signing a 7-year contract extension. Fortunately, it is not supposed to be a serious injury. It has to be really frightening when you realize that your team is just a knee injury away from disaster.
I know that attitude is selfish and pretty unpatriotic, but I would rather see the Lakers win a championship than TeamUSA win the title.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 08, 2006 at 07:59 PM
Sola
I really really really like Caron Butler. He was a great player and I was a bit upset that he got traded for a "bust". The guy averaged 18.5/10.5 during the playoffs. Wouldnt that have been great if Kwame couldve done that with absolutely NO TRUE C guarding him. The guy averaged 15/5 with us in 1 season as a Laker while we wait for our project that we traded to average those same numbers. How i wish we still had him. I think he'll turn out to be a great player and ill be very pissed off if he has a better career than Kwame but I wish him the best of luck. Maybe one day he can be a Laker again. You should check out what Hoopshype had to same as him.
http://hoopshype.com/players/caron_butler.htm
AND HE CAN CATCH!!!
Posted by: Shady | August 08, 2006 at 08:01 PM
LOL Mike T.
Andrew Z...lol, I really was surprised, it just goes to show that nothing is impossible lol, jk. I agree with you though. I for one am hoping (and believe) that when it comes to Kwame, it'll be the good end of the spectrum, starting this season (with him being underpaid for his production).
Shady, it was all a matter of supply and demand. Caron is good player, I think having him in the playoffs would have served us well...but we needed the defense more, especially in terms of bigs. Plus for what he does, as it stood, we had more than enough people to do what he did...with George (defense), Cook (offense) and Luke (ball handling). We also had an influx at the forward spot, and no real defending big (outside of Mihm's shotblocking). Think of it this way, it was no surprise that we won more games last year, and it wasn't just cause PJ was back...it was also cause we've got Kwame to defend against the bigs, and the ever disagreeable clogging the middle.
Posted by: Faith | August 08, 2006 at 08:30 PM
AK and exhelodrvr:
First off, the Lakers did not catch the Suns by surprise. The Lakers were playing the best basketball in the NBA at the end of last season. What happened is that the Lakers youth and inexperience caught up with them and they lost their confidence. Secondly, I never said the Lakers would roll over the Clippers, Mavs, or Heat. I said that they would beat them because they were just as good and matched up well.
You have your opinion and I have mine but the evidence doesn't necessarily support your claim whereas I believe the matchups do support mine. I frankly don't believe that the Clippers, Mavs, or Heat were better teams than the Lakers at the end of the regular season last year, when the Lakers finished on a 14-4 run.
As for the Cllppers, they only won 2 more games than the Lakers did last year with the teams splitting their season series 1-1. In their last matchup, however, with both teams fighting for playoff position, the Lakers dominated the Clippers 100-83, with Kobe scoring 38 and Lamar scoring 15. If the Lakers had beaten the Suns, I believe they would have been the favorites over the Clippers and would have beaten them.
As for the Mavs, we won the season series from them 3-1 and the Mavs displayed their well-publicized inability to defend defend superstar guards when Kobe scored 62 in 3 quarters against them and again when Wade demolished them in the Finals. Since the Mavs won 60 games, they would surely have been favored but the Kobe would have killed them like he always does and the Lakers would have won the West.
Finally, as for the Heat, we split the season series with them 1-1 but beat them in the last matchup in January 100-92 with Kobe scoring 37 vs Wade's 34. Unlike the Mavs, we would have put Kobe on Wade and he wouldn't have gotten the superstar calls that he got against the Mavs. I believe the Lakers would have matched up much better against the Heat, Kobe and Lamar would have been unstoppable, and the Lakers would have won their 10th NBA championship.
Why do you think that Mitch Kupchak and Phil Jackson have both publicly stated that there is no team out there that the Lakers do not believe they can beat. This is the new age of parity in the NBA and there are no super teams like the Bulls of the 80's or the Lakers of the 90's.
Wake up and believe it because the Lakers will prove it this year but don't worry, we will still save a seat on the 55-Win Bandwagon for each of you.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 08, 2006 at 08:41 PM
Faith,
That's all true to some degree, but I'm not sure the '04-'05 team couldn't have gotten 45 wins (or at least somewhat close) if Kobe hadn't missed 16 games, LO hadn't missed 18 games (most of them at the end) and Rudy T. hadn't quit.
I'm not trying to dismiss Kwame's contributions, because he did make some strides during the last 20 or so games of the season. But considering he's only an effective defender when matched up in a one on one post situation (as evidenced by the Phoenix series) and only really played that level of post D for the last third or so of the season, I'm not sure Kwame's presence can really be accounted for as a central factor in the win increase. I would rank Kobe and LO's lack of injuries as a much bigger factor, along with the fact that Phil coached them better than Rudy. Kwame played some role, but there were many bigger/equal elements, in my opinion
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 08, 2006 at 08:51 PM
Laker Tom,
Again, didn't say that the Lakers couldn't have beaten the Clips. I just said that I think the idea of "we were one rebound away from playing for a championship" is a little cart ahead of the horse. Simply my opinion and I think the facts (and simple reality) also support that.
And as far as Kupchak and Jackson's statements, what exactly do you think they're gonna say? "We think we can beat any team except the following squads?" That's very standard, run of the mill, "for the public to hear" talk. I'm not saying they aren't confident about the team's chances for success. I'm just saying you wouldn't hear them say otherwise if they weren't.
Trust me, I'll be plenty happy to have been wrong if the Lakers win 55. Nothing will make me more genuinely thrilled.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 08, 2006 at 09:03 PM
Lakertom & Faith,
Great posts and great points.
Kwame is important. He wouldve been even more vital had we beaten the Suns as he would be the guy guarding Brand, Dirk, or Duncan. He will be even more important next year, cuz although Caron is a nice scorer, offense will definitely not be a problem next year. I know a lot of ppl hated the Caron Kwame trade, but im very surprised anyone is still upset about the trade after what Kwame gave us last year. And he also, still has room to improve.
I'm a little surprised people would rather have Caron over Kwame....but i'm SHOCKED that anyone still wants Kareem Rush. I'm sorry, but if you want Rush back, I cannot consider you a true Laker fan...as it is proof you were not watching every game of the season...but happened to tune into the playoff game where he went off.
Posted by: wiZo | August 08, 2006 at 09:09 PM
AK:
I know you will be thrilled. I just didn't think you and exhelodrvr were giving the Lakers proper respect compared to the Clippers, Mavs, and Heat. Will see who is right at the end of the year. Your half empty glass or my half full glass.
I still respect your opinion, of course, but in this case your natural conservatism is showing.
Thanks.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 08, 2006 at 09:13 PM
wiZo:
Thanks for the support.
I am actually surprised that Phil and Tex want Rush back. I agree with you 100%. I much prefer the moves that Mitch made to get Evans and Vlade. And Williams sounds like a more consistent 3-point shooter than Rush.
Everyone, I am not saying that the Lakers should be one of the favorites to win it all next year, but we are one of several teams that could do it and we DO have Kobe Bryant and Phil Jackson, which is a big advantage.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 08, 2006 at 09:16 PM
wiZo:
Forgot to mention Kwame. I agree with you that he is much more valuable to us than Caron could ever be, especially if Andrew is going to develop slower than we had hoped. What I really want to see is Farmar feeding him. I have a hunch he will end up with a lot fewer fumbles and a lot more easy baskets.
Thanks
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 08, 2006 at 09:18 PM
i dont think that article was fair to kwame. this year, kwame will not have the pressure that he's had all those years. he knows that kobe and lamar are the center pieces of this team. he is a sound defender and he will only get better being the starting center and getting more minutes. he will also benefit from the fact that he will have the advantage of single coverage on offense with vlad adding to the firepower from the outside. quality big men are rare in the league. quality big men who are good defenders are even more rare. dont expect kwame to be an allstar but having him anchor that position for 8.5 mil. i can deal with that. at this point, i like his upside compared to nene, dalembert, chandler and curry.
Posted by: sixonezero | August 08, 2006 at 09:25 PM
Andrew Z ... regarding your post at 3:22 PM ... I would say that Lamar Odom is worth his overall contract in today's market (6 years - $65 million), perhaps not the escalated $14 million at this stage into it. I really like LO ... and I love his unique game and approach ... but I agree that he needs to bring to more to the table this year. Numbers don't tell the full story with LO ... I would say that this year he has to have more consistent impact from game to game ... more like he was in the playoffs.
Leo
Posted by: Leo | August 08, 2006 at 09:32 PM
Laker Tom,
I am giving the Lakers respect. I'm just giving the other teams respect, too.
To be honest, I think the Lakers would have more trouble with the Clips than the Mavs or the Heat. The Clips match up very well with the Lakers and if Mihm hadn't been healthy, you'd be dealing with two tough post threats in Brand (who played his nards off in the postseason) and Kaman. LO is capable of guarding Brand (as he showed in their final game), but you really don't want him doing that for seven games. And the Clips are much deeper. Plus, LO has not historically played well against his old team. Obviously, any team with Kobe (and playing as a unit) has a shot, but these are the guys who'd make me the most nervous.
With Dallas, the Lakers would have to be on their game against them (that postseason team was not the same squad Kobe put up 62 against), but they've also had the Mavs number. The Mavs certainly played well (except during the championship round), and they'd have to be considered the faves. But they were also who I was hoping the Lakers would get in the first round, more than the Suns or Spurs.
As for the Heat, I think their experience would have won out in the end (I mean, if the Lakers could barely handle the pressure of the first series, the championship could have been tough). But then again, if the Lakers were actually there, perhaps none of that even matters. I'll tell you this much. That theoretical series could have made Kwame's name. Unlike Avery Johnson (who I think made a big mistake doubling Shaq too much), I think PJ would have experimented more with playing Shaq in single coverage more (assuming Kwame could just make him work). Had he have pulled it off even reasonably well, legend status.
Again, never said the Lakers couldn't have advanced. I just think you're making it into a little more of a given than it really is.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 08, 2006 at 09:32 PM
Faith
I understand what you said and AK summed it up pretty good. At this point now all we can do is speculate and ask "What IF" questions.
Wizo
To tell you the truth what Kwame did was good but not great and the reason why we traded a "good" Butler was for a great "Brown". If that doesnt (and hasnt) happened then I would call the trade a bad trade. As it is right now it is still a gamble with Kwame. Just like Kwame showed some real good progress at the end of the season so did Butler in the playoffs. Kwame was one of the guys that disappeared in the series (a bit understandable with the rape investigation) but Butler was great in his series. Like I said I will be very pissed if Caron ends up having a better career then Kwame. That being said Kwame is a Laker and i fully support him and hope that he does improve. As far as Butler I wish him the best since he was a Laker and a good player with us. I just wanted to see what he could do for us but unfortunately he left a little too soon for us to really see what kind of player he couldve become. I wouldnt mind having him back though and dont necessary mean a trade like Kwame for Butler.
To defend some of the bloggers I think the reason some of them would want Rush back is because he has some of the things we would need like
1. is a guard which we badly need
2. knows the triangle and has some exp now
which would also be the reason some wanted Lue back. I dont think many blogger hold them to be real good players but more in the decent guard section which we dont have many of right now. The new guards are unproven in the triangle and havent had great NBA seasons. Even with the new acquisition Im pretty sure PJ is satisfied but not jumping in cheer for the new guards.
Posted by: Shady | August 08, 2006 at 09:40 PM
AK,
Wake up, you have been sleeping on that hour glass, don't you see it's half-full? Hitch on our bandwagon and we'll provide you with blinders just in case you peep and see the glass half-empty. What more do you want the Lakers have Kwame coming around and Farmar starting? We will make them obey, you bet!
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | August 08, 2006 at 09:46 PM
AK,
I don't know if you've noticed, but everything said on this blog is an argument.
:)
--Fearless
Posted by: Fearless | August 08, 2006 at 10:00 PM
Bonzi Wells is still available as an unrestricted free agent.
I would love him in a Lakers uniform. He would make the Lakers a power team - difficult to match. Currently the Lakers don't have any power players other than Kobe. This is why they can stagnate when Kobe is neutralized by the opposing team. Vlade is only part of the solution - he's soft. The Lakers need another power player. Bonzi can give them that power player. Phil can coach Bonzi. Harrington is a good player. But Harrington won't take the Lakers over the top. Bonzi would take the Lakers over the top to contend with the best teams in the league.
Think of the following line up:
Starters: Kobe, Bonzi, Vlade, Lamar, Kwame
Bench Guards: Sasha, Jordan, Smush, Shammond, Maurice
Bench Bigs: Andrew, Ronny, Luke, Chris, Brian
On the bubble: J.R. Pinnock, Aaron McKie, etc.
Posted by: James Katt | August 08, 2006 at 10:03 PM
Leo, I really like your last post.
L.o. is one of my favorite players and I like all of his intangibles. However, at 14 Million, he now has to be much better than he has been. If he was really the player that he should be then people would not be looking at obtaining AH for 8 million.
Therefore, I have decided that it will not be a good idea for the Lakers to go after AH. We have to see how things pan out with respect to Vlad, L.O., and Smush. This is now a completely different team from last year, so we must all remain patient and have faith in the organization.
In conclusion, I like L.O., but if he doesn't step up, maybe that 14 could be used elsewhere on another top player.
Posted by: Ken | August 08, 2006 at 10:16 PM
LakerTom,
I'm loving the optimism! And it's good reading too.
I think the Lakers ended up right where they were supposed to last year. The goal last year was to make the playoffs first, then make some noise in the playoffs. Done Deal.
This year we need to take that next step. We need to win enough games to get homecourt in the first round at least and make some more noise.
Personally, I'd be happy with 50-52 wins. That's a good number for a team without a dominant big in the paint. The Spurs and Dallas will probably be the 60 win teams. And you have to count the Suns for at least 55. 50-52 wins should be enough for homecourt in the west if we can hold off the Clippers and Memphis.
1. Spurs-Tim Duncan is a champion
2. Dallas-Deep team will win a lot of games
3. Suns-Nash, Marion, Diaw, Stoudamire, Barbosa, Thomas, etc.
4. Lakers-Up and coming; Kwame needs to be a force to make it happen
5. Clippers-It's going to be real tough holding down Brand
6. Memphis-Jerry West is the best
7. who cares
8. who cares
Posted by: Rocky | August 08, 2006 at 10:55 PM
the lakers could have gotten kwame off the wiz for less than caron. they didnt want him and was considered a bust there anyway. its just that the lakers picked him up too early. i think if they could have waited, they still could have neg. with the wiz to obtain brown probably for draft picks or bench players when wash wanted to dump some salary. they (wizards)thought that they got a steal of a trade(i agree) at the time. the only good thing the lakers got for the trade was chucky for profit, until profit got hurt. if caron was still on the team, we could seriously be deeper and would have another 2nd scorer(or 3rd). if kwame was never picked phil and the lakers coaching staff havent worked with kwame to get better what do any of you think would have become of brown? something to think about.
Posted by: THE WOLF | August 08, 2006 at 11:29 PM
it's nice to see kobe getting fired up for the next season. GO LAKERS!!!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-adande6aug06,1,56658.column?page=1&coll=la-headlines-sports-nba-lakers
Posted by: Quazzar | August 09, 2006 at 12:48 AM
AK:
I never said it was a given that the Lakers would have gone all the way if they beat the Suns. If you read my post you will see that. Let's just agree that it wasn't a given that the Lakers would or wouldn't have gone all the way if they beat the Suns. OK?
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 09, 2006 at 01:37 AM
LakerTom - I have to agree with you on not being soooo upset that Kobe nor Lamar are playing USA Basketball. I honestly, haven't really been as interested in the games either to be quite honest. Besides, the possibility of a freak injury is always there. Nor do I believe it's a selfish/unpatriotic attitude. Fact is, they are LAKERS and to me, while, it is indeed an honor to represent your country, to me, they are obligated to play for the Lakers. So why jeopardize that? The guys are focused on the upcoming season as a team -- albeit Lamar's decision to pull out of the tryouts were more so personal. Everything happens for a reason and maybe it'll come together for us considering everything Kobe, Kwame and Lamar have gone through personally and what the team endured as a whole.
I see them not playing USA ball as a positive..
GO LAKERS !
Posted by: lakersrydeordie | August 09, 2006 at 05:10 AM
Why is everyone talking about number of wins in the regular season? I don't care if the Lakers only win 44 games, as long as they advance in the playoffs. Maybe some of you think a young team needs homecourt in the playoffs, you may be right, but homecourt doesn't guarantee anything. Forget 55 wins, give me an appearance in the Western Conference Finals for '06-'07 and I'll be happy.
Posted by: rdlee | August 09, 2006 at 07:34 AM
The Wolf,
Wolf, you're analytical and could read what was really at stake. MJ & Collins were so disappointed in Kwame, then the next coach, Ex- Laker Jordan didn't play him during their playoffs cuz of an apparent feud with Gilbert Areans. He was practically a waste with the Wizzards when the Lakers bailed him out as though he was a prize possession. Thinking that PJ could turn around any kind of player, they gambled on him. Lakers could have just traded Atkins with Profit and could have acquired Artest for Butler or any big C available at that time. In '06, Kwame would surely be in the market and Lakers could have gotten him with several players or for less amount w/o necessarily offering a mid-level star.
Fearless,
Yes, you're exactly right this blog became a forum for arguments. For that matter, anybody who wish to log in the Lakers Blog, you're either prepared to argue or to agree with the bandwagon.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | August 09, 2006 at 07:43 AM
JJ,
After all the fuss and debates on AH, finally the Lakers are now included in the mix.
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060809/SPORTS04/608090425/1004/SPORTS
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | August 09, 2006 at 08:00 AM
Laker Tom,
When you broke down each potential match up, you didn't even acknowledge any troubles the Lakers might have against those teams, said that the matchups all favored the Lakers and laid out how the Lakers would end up winning. That sounds to me like someone pretty much expecting a win. If I took you too literally, my bad.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 09, 2006 at 08:15 AM
Shady & others,
Although I admire and appreciate your loyalty to Caron Butler (I felt the same way about Eddie Jones Nick Van Excel, Norm Nixon AP etc) I dont quite see your thinking. Everybody wants to say he can score and board and by those numbers he is a better player than Kwame. What is being overlooked however is the fact that he (Caron) is not a big. Caron can not guard Tim Duncan...Dirk, KG, etc. and if he did he would not score 5 points or get more than 2 boards.
I miss Caron to, class guy, good player; not what we needed and not what we need. Think about last year, replace Kwame with Caron. We might not have even made the playoffs. Kwame has been a serviceable and at times good (ok he still cant catch) big for us. I think Mitch made the right choice.
Posted by: todd | August 09, 2006 at 08:23 AM
Shady,
I don't think that if Kwame doesn't turn out to be "great", the trade should be considered a bad trade. When we acually traded for him he was "bad" Kwame. Now he is "alright" Kwame. If he could turn into "good" kwame, I'll think of the trade as fair, not bad. At the time, almost every player on our team was between 6-7 - 6-8. We were in serious need for a big. Caron is the man and is capable of crazy nights (30 points here, 20 rebounds there) but so is a "good" Kwame. To trade a "good" Caron Butler for a "great" Kwame Brown would be considered a blockbuster trade by Kupchak standards. I have respect for Kupchak only because a- he's a former laker and b- West was his mentor. But throughout the years, he's brought in players of serious question. But the one memory that sticks out in my mind the most about Kupchak is the day that Kobe made his laker/clipper announcement. I don't know if it was just me, but he just did not look right. Sure that was a tough week, but the man looked half-dead! I just remember being so joyed that Kobe was staying and her Mitch was lookin like somebody just stomped his cat.
dan
Posted by: dan the man aka smushcalade | August 09, 2006 at 08:30 AM
Here is a story about Kobe in cleats...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0608090267aug09,1,7834136.story
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | August 09, 2006 at 08:31 AM
As far as Lamar goes, I think we will see a new man this year. His comfort level in the triangle increased big time in the playoffs and he was really rounding out by the end of the reg. season. His production was more consistan and Kobe is starting to trust him more and more - Worth the Money
Bynum is still young and we just gotta give him time. Jackson and Kareem will be able to mold him into a good big man. I keep watching for more of the sky hook to surface -WtM
Kwame, well I hope he comes along, with the accusations behind him now, I think he will start to grow again, it affected him more than he acknowledged in the playoffs - WtM
Smush, I have great hopes as well - WtM
Slava needs help, Sasha can be better still but I like where his game is going and we gotta - Not WtM
Mihm - I like him but am ready to move on, spotty play has killed it for me. We still need a good power forward - NWtM
Ronny will come on stonger - WtM
Luke, great passer an on court vision - WtM
Famar looks good so far - WtM
McKie, Johnson, VonW, Green etc. only time will tell.
Posted by: T-Woody | August 09, 2006 at 08:33 AM
Oh, Can we get Brand in Purple and Gold?
Posted by: T-Woody | August 09, 2006 at 08:35 AM
I love the whole "one rebound away from the finals/championship" rationale. AK said it best when he said they were one rebound away from the second round, PERIOD.
Too many people here let their dedication to the team and optimism cloud their better judgement. This is an improving Laker team, and they had a good season last year, but it would take one of the greatest streaks of luck for us to win a title this year. I think a more reasonable goal would be to improve on last year's finish and get past the first round. If they do that I will consider the season a success.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 09, 2006 at 08:38 AM
Rdlee,
There you are, I second to your observations. Season games are only for individual stats. good for your contracts, MVP determination as well as court advantage during the playoffs. If you are a longtimed Laker watcher, you should be concerned only on playoffs or bust.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | August 09, 2006 at 08:49 AM
AK, I like your team breakdowns. And I agree that the Clips matchup well with the Lakers. The reason I share Tom's optimism tho is that its been a while since Ive felt that there is no real dominant scary team out there. Usually, its the Spurs. I think they are still the favorites...but in years past they were clearly the best team. I know Duncan and Manu were banged up last year...but then again, they arent getting any younger or better and overall, its a pretty old team. I think we matchup well with the Heat and Dallas. Shaq gets worse every year. Ditto on your Dallas and Clips comments. But one reason I give us the edge over the clips is simply Kobe. They really have noone on the level of Kobe, who can take over a series. As good as Brand is, he isnt on that level. If anyone scares me its the Suns actually. We had a big advantage inside against them...but they'll have Amare and Kurt back this year. If Tmac is healthy I expect the Rockets to make a decent run at it, but again, nothing to be scared about.
Shady,
I agree with you in a sense that Butler is "better" than Kwame. But in a sense, most G/Fs are better than bigs. Theres just more Gs and Fs and you have to be that much more skilled to be successful in the league. I guess my argument would then be, even tho Butler is better...Kwame is more valuable. Its hard to come by 6'11 260lb athletic freaks. So even if Kwame is "worse" he is arguably a top 10 C in the league....whereas with Butler, its hard to even put him in the top 15 SFs. And although Kwames play wasnt "GREAT"...to me, it was great. Really, we wouldve been significantly worse without him last year (in the second half). Yeah, he did dissapear in the playoffs...but I really think he will be a very valuable piece in future playoffs.
Posted by: wiZo | August 09, 2006 at 08:50 AM
Rocky, that scenario does not work. Even after the change in playoff seeding, one of the top 4 seeds needs to go to the winner of the northwest division. To get the 4-seed, the Lakers will need to finish with the 3rd-best record.
Posted by: McGarnagle | August 09, 2006 at 09:09 AM
lakersrydeordie,
I agree with both you and Tom, but I think you might be suprised how fun it is to watch the USA team right now. They are playing very unselfish basketball with some strong d. I know that the games are on during random times of thae day, but you should check it out. The best games are yet to come!
dan
Posted by: dan the man aka smushcalade | August 09, 2006 at 09:27 AM
McGarnagle,
You're right.
Oh well. F homecourt advantage. Maybe we'll catch a break somewhere and steal the division.
Posted by: Rocky | August 09, 2006 at 09:44 AM
Dan
They almost lost. What is fun about watching that?
All this show is that the best players are still not on the court for the USA.
They are missing
KOBE
SHAQ
DUNCAN
GARNETT
BILLUPS
Posted by: Zakee | August 09, 2006 at 10:07 AM
I think the Lakers are going to win the division this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Phoenix stayed the same and we have gotton better. Amare Stoud needs 1 full year to be the player he needs to be. I think the answer for NASH is FARMER. I don't think that Farmer is better then Nash, but I think he watched last years matchup and when he got picked by the LAKERS in his mind he can't wait to play against NASH. I belive that this is 1 date on the calender that this kid can't wait for. The first night I don't think Phil will play him. Only becuase he is a rookie. I truely think that this kid is going to step up in this serious and against Tony Parker.
Against Billups,we have to go back to SMUSH AND Shammond. Farmer is going to play an hell of a role for us this year. I don't got him starting, ut I got him playing in the games that court towards the end of the season.
Posted by: Zakee | August 09, 2006 at 10:15 AM
hey AK
what happened to know thy enemy?? (the portland goldenstate and minnesota post only got 50 comments)
haha apparently the bloggers would rather debate possibilities and intangible ifs an maybe trades rather than look at the other teams and compare them, brutally if neccesary, to our lakers.
still i think you should consider analyzing the next tire of teams in the western confrence
but in light of the trade talks concerning AH i have one question for the blog (assuming we get AH )
unless the lakers go like this
1LO
2Kobe
3VR
4-AH
5-Kwame
either VR or AH is gonna have to come off the bench. as a sixth man type player (probably around 20-30min a game)
would VR or AH be better coming off the bench?
should we (gasp) consider LO coming off the bench to play the 1/3/4? (for 30-40min a game?
i personally dont think that AH is a must player. . if we get him he would be a nice pickup and a valuable trade asset but i dont think not getting him is such a horrible thing either
think about it, the vast majority of consistant contributors to this blog believe (among other things) that this is a 55+ win season. now it seems to me that 55+ wins in the West is pretty close to the top.
im lacking a strong conclusive point. . .oh well
AK i still think its a good idea
sorry to ramble
Posted by: joninjapan | August 09, 2006 at 10:22 AM
JoninJapan,
BK and I just divvied up a batch of "Know Thy Enemy" teams for the next installment. It shouldn't be too long before it's up. And it's nice to know the concept has one fan. Well, I guess three fans, if you count me and BK. haha
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | August 09, 2006 at 10:29 AM
I love this oppotimism on this blog about our lakers. LAKER TOM said it best why we should not believe this lakers can't compete against any team in the league. It's okay to be passive about the lakers of the past two years, but no way should we be about this new laker team. I can finally say this is the first time Kobe really has a team and he won't disappoint, nither will phil and maybe during the season we make a trade to even send us over the top even more. As true laker followers we have to believe in our team first, we have to show them we care, we have to show them we expect them to compete to the fullest every night. if we don't show them first, then they have no reason to step on the floor and play against Wades' team, Lebrons team, Dirks' team, Nash team or Duncan's team. And we have a general in Kobe that we know can lead the way for this team to compete harder than any team in the league.
Plus, we have talent. Smush was a steal and still is a steal. Smush speed is set at ten all the time, all he needs to do is slow down and be patient especially when he is on defense. He has the body and quickness but his quickness his working to his disadvantage on defense.
We all know that Vlad can decide a game when he gets hot, just ask the lakers, you can almost ask the suns, even denver will tell you the same thing.
Kwame we all know needs work but we see the potential in his talent, Kwame just needs to believe in himself, once he does he will be a beast.
We know everything starts and end with lamar and kobe on the floor. And we should not expect nothing but greatness from those two, they've made us believe in them.
Finally we have Phil, till today i'm puzzled how well his strategy worked against the suns, all that shows is that the lakers will be ready to compete because Phil is a master game planner and he also made us believe. For us to do some damage this year we all have to believe. I know i believe, do you believe?
GO LAKERS!!!!
Posted by: Sola | August 09, 2006 at 10:41 AM
Zakee,
That game against Brazil was a great game! Barbosa and Co. were almost too much for us, but thay weren't. If we would have lost then maybe I could agree with you. The truth is, Team USA are no real favorites to win a gold. They will not win every close game. They have along way to go to prove that they are anything more than an international bronze team anyway. I'm expecting many close games during this jorney. The best and FUNnest wins are those that we have to dig deep and grind out. If Brazil didn't blow it, they had overtime with a three. These challenges are great for our players and exiting to the fans.
And yeah this is a B-Team. But then again, there can only be five players out there at once. With the situations with Kobe and Lamar, along with Shaq, Duncan and KG, These guys really have a chance to shine. I never thought I be yell'n for Hindrich! To take it even further, it probably wouldn't be as fun to watch the A-Team because we've seen all these guys so many times.
It's defenetly fun to watch!
dan
Posted by: dan the man aka smushcalade | August 09, 2006 at 10:43 AM
wiZo -
I just checked the blog and saw that you said that anyone who'd want Rush back isn't a true fan. That's stupid. I'm one of the ones who mentioned Rush and I've been coming to Laker games since the FIRST Kareem was playing. Get over yourself. Differing opions is what makes a blog - otherwise there wouldn't be a point.
Dave M.
Posted by: dave m | August 09, 2006 at 10:57 AM
Dan the MAN
Ok what is fun, is the competition. Wha t is not fun to watch is close games by the NBA best. I really think that if KOBE and Billups were playing then we seriously would not have to worry about close games. Close games are for the seoson. This the USA. It should not be any close games. But hey this will only help KOBE out. I see why he didn't want to play with these guys this year. I would have gotton the surgury to. Smart decision KOBE. I f the USA losses trust me it will only help the LAKERS and Kobes confidence. When KOBE plays against any of those guys that play for the USA this up incoming year, like WADW, LEBRON, AND who ever. He is going to look at them guys like please, you guys couldn't even beat a bunch of guys from over seas together, what makes you think you can beat KOBE on your individual teams.
I am glad KOBE didn't play for the USA TEAM!!!!!!1
Posted by: Zakee | August 09, 2006 at 10:57 AM
Rocky,
On second thought, you were right. If the Lakers finish with the 4th-best record, they will face the Northwest winner with homecourt advantage. I forgot that the Clips last year were seeded 6th but had home court against the Nuggets.
Posted by: McGarnagle | August 09, 2006 at 11:00 AM
AK,
Too many people on here don't want to see the next group of West teams because they haven't done enough drugs to come up with an argument that proves the Lakers match up well with the Spurs, Mavs, Suns, or Clippers.
Posted by: Andrew Z | August 09, 2006 at 11:02 AM
AK:
Jeez, AK. Give me a break. I was talking about the overall matchups of the teams, not individual players. Why do you have a problem with admitting that the Lakers "might" have won it all if they had beaten the Suns? Is it your secret love affair with the loser "Clippers" and their racist owner Donald Sterling?
We split the season series with the Clippers 2-2, but won the last game when both teams were fighting for playoff position. I never said that that indicated we were going to "roll over" the Clippers. But can you tell me that winning that last game didn't indicate that we damn well "could" have beaten the Clippers?
We beat the Mavs 3 out of 4 times and the Mavs DO have a problem with superstar scoring guards. I never said we would roll over them. But doesn't the fact that we beat them 3 out of 4 indicate that we "could" damn well have beaten them in the playoffs?
And as for the Heat, we split the series with them, which doesn't say that we would roll over them. But doesn't the fact that we beat them the last time we played them indicate that we "could" have beaten them in the Finals?
The issue is that there is NO real dominant team at this point of parity in the NBA and the point I was making is that a few lucky bounces -- like the Heat and the Mavs got -- is all that several teams -- including the Lakers -- would have needed to go all the way.
And NO, I wouldn't expect Kobe, Phil, and Mitch to all state that we "could" be playing for a championship this year if they did NOT believe it. They never said anything like that the last two years because they didn't believe it. I think they said it this year because they DO believe we can compete for a championship, even though YOU obviously don't.
And don't come back at me saying that means that they are "sure" we are going to win it all. Nobody is saying that. All they're saying is that we have as good a chance as any other team to win it all. In some areas we are still weak but in other areas we are very strong. If our team continues to improve as it it did at the end of last year, our young players grow up fast, we avoid serious injuries, and get a few lucky breaks, we could win the NBA championship this year. Yes, there are probably another 5 or 6 teams that could say the same thing, but at least we have made it into this group, even if we won't be the favorite. And you can bet your sweet a$$ that the Clippers won't be in that group.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 09, 2006 at 11:10 AM
AK:
Are you sure you are a Laker "fan" and not a Laker "critic?"
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 09, 2006 at 11:13 AM
James Katt:
I agree with you that Bonzi would be great on the Lakers. He was my original free agent choice. The problem now is that you would have to do a sign and trade deal with the Queens to get him, which they would never do with the Lakers unless we gave them too much. But you are right, he would be every opposing coach's nightmare matchup if he were in purple and gold.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 09, 2006 at 11:20 AM
Before WWF blog style erupts (lol, jk)...I'd just like to say...I certainly hope our team can and will be just as psyched and passionate as we are.
In my opinion, this blog has the recipe to win...obsessiveness, passion, fire, and of course the queen...Me! Actually that's all me, aren't you guys glad I blog LOL, jk.
My point still stands, Laker team..show us you want is as much as we do!
Posted by: Faith | August 09, 2006 at 11:22 AM
wow LakerTom hot words from a usually cool individual
i personally dont think you can be a real laker fan without being an honest laker critic
Posted by: joninjapan | August 09, 2006 at 11:23 AM
Andrew Z, or anyone
The Laker match up good with the Spurs, MAVS, SUNS, AND CLIPPERS.
Suns-
the only thing that stopped us last year, was a backup piont guard that was willing to take the challenge of playing top notch ball against NASH. Some player just don't play good against certain other players. I think Farmer will do an excellent job specifically agaist NASH and Parker. He is just like those guys. Small and quick. Against Billups it is probably a different story like I said before.
DALLAS-
Please this team can't stop any top guard in the league. CASE CLOSED becasue we got KOBE. 108 PTS in 2 games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Clippers-
Now this is a good matchup, but this is where RACMAN comes in to the pic. He speads our offense to create spacing for all the other players on our team. The great thing about him is he is not just a shott. He can make the play. Better version of Cook. How are you going to Stop LO now if he can pass the ball to a person who actually knows how to cut to the open spot. Where are the FLAWSat on our team. Can you give me 1. We have 3 pt gaurds that are all different from 1 another so you can't say the pt. The game is about situation and we a a pt for every situation. Plus we have LO and SASHA that can also run that possesion.
Spurs-
Well I believe that when LO moves back to the 4 spot, then this is what is going to creat the havov for other teams. We will now have 4 players on the florr that can spead the offense. How are you going to defend that. Plus we are playing for PHIL so we are 1 of the best defensive teams in the league. Look up the stats last year. I don't think that the SPURS will score enough pts. to beat us. That is the bottom line. We match up perfectly with them beacause of RACMAN. This guys is 6'10 and can shout the heel out of the ball. We have spacing now. I don't think you guys understand how important that is when you are running the triangle.
The bottom line is that our team ha the following:
DEPTH
LEADERSHIP
GOOD COACHING
MUTLI POSITION PLAYER/INTERCHANGEABLE PLAYERS
KOBE BRYANT AND PHIL
GREAT FANS
3 1/2 CENTERS
6 POWER FORWARDS
7 SMALL FORWARDS
3 PT GAURDS
6 SHOOTING GAURDS.
And the great thing about our gaurds and small forwards is that them all have a great basketball IQ.
Posted by: Zakee | August 09, 2006 at 11:24 AM
Rocky:
Thanks for the props. I think your playoff scenario looked pretty realistic. With 55 wins, however, the Lakers might sneak up a spot. A lot will depend on which teams avoid major injuries, but we will defintely finish ahead of the Clippers and put them back in their normal place -- below us.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 09, 2006 at 11:25 AM
I look forward to the Lakers improving on last season by leaps and bounds. I am confident this team can pull off a lot more than last year. Contract / cap issues aside, we have a team we can be proud of this season rather than one guy. Least we forget, the beauty of the triangle is we don't need 3 or 4 all stars on the floor to compete. Just competent role players to keep it together and solid back up men. I think we have that finally. The outside shooting is covered by Vlad and Lamar when he is aggressive and Smush when the spirit moves (and helps). Passing duties will be handled. And number 24 (that still sounds weird)will do what he does. Just swing the ball and the wins will come.
Great things to come in 06-07!
Posted by: T-Woody | August 09, 2006 at 11:30 AM
Andrew Z,
I just don't understand your attitude at all. What are you saying? Are you conceding that the Spurs, Suns, or Mav's are better that the Lakers? I think that the Lakers can match up with any team in the west period. Just look at the difference in the team from last year. We were actually contempating starting Mckie at point, and Kwame at power forward. Right now we have talent-depth-and experience to make a run at winning the west.
Ken
Posted by: Ken | August 09, 2006 at 11:43 AM
Andrew Z:
"It would take one of the greatest streaks of luck for us to win a title this year."
First, that is the name of the game today in the NBA. Miami proved that last year. There are NO great teams. Any number of teams could win it all this year with the parity throughout the league. This year the winner will be the Heat, Bulls, Suns, Spurs, Mavs, OR the Lakers. We may not be the favorites but we ARE on that list.
Second, the Lakers have positioned themselves to take advantage of serendipity. We have the best basketball player in the world, the best coach in the NBA, a raft of young players with great upside, and a tradition of winning championships. If we avoid major injuries and the team continues to grow and develop, we could have one of "the greatest streaks of luck" and win it all.
That's is all I am really saying, Andrew. Is that so hard to embrace, to root for, to cheer for, to hope for? I could understand it if you were a Knicks fan because then you don't have a snowball's chance in Hell of going all the way. But you're a Laker fan, Andrew, and for the first time in three years, we have a chance -- maybe not the best chance -- but a chance that we could go all the way. So why not jump for joy and root for your team to do it. It's not hard. Just join the bandwagon. We have saved a space just for you.
Tom
Posted by: LakerTom | August 09, 2006 at 11:46 AM