For the most part I have to agree with Taliq. I can see where AK and others feel like Kobe was isolated and aloof. Why? Cuz he was isolated and aloof. There have been instances and examples supporting that notion. But I think Taliq is right in that it is almost impossible (and borderline ridiculous) to call Kobe out on it or to lay the majority of the blame on Kobe. Everyone here knows how ridiculously selfish and baby-like Shaq is. Since when is it up to a 17yr old rookie to force himself to fit in? Derek Fisher said that from day 1, they were simply taken aback and almost shocked by how hard Kobe worked. Think about how weird a dynamic that creates, when as veterans, you see a 17yr old kid working twice as hard as you...it hurts the ego. Its like in the movie "Rudy" and everyone is like "geez, Rudy, lighten up man, its a practice." Well, who's wrong? Should Rudy lighten up or should the leaders of the team work harder? How can Kobe fit in when his team (and COACH!) naturally rejects him? Had Shaq not been such a big baby (or not there at all), or if Phil wasnt such a biased stubborn prick, this would not ever have even been an issue. But to blame Kobe for what happened when it really couldnt have happened another way due to shaq, phil, and the weird dynamic created by shaq's dominance and laziness vs. kobe's talent and determination to be the best ever, i think thats unfair. Like Taliq said, Kobe is a great leader now...and he very well couldve had that in him from the beginning. To point to isolated instances is like pointing to Steve Nash's stats while he was playing behind Jason Kidd as an argument that Nash is great now, but "sucked" back then.

Andrew Z,

"It has nothing to do with "followers" other than the fact that someone is a sh*tty leader if no one follows."

Now that is funny. Are you telling me that Shaq and Phil had nothing to do with Kobe isolating himself? If we're talking sh*tty leaders then you have to point to Shaq and Phil during those years because Kobe was up and coming during that time. Shaq and Phil downplayed his greatness as if he was an afterthought. That is sh*tty leadership! And that's why they both got the boot while Kobe got a 130 million dollar contract.

mike

What about this Oklahoma big man Taj Gray. Runor has it he is on his way to France after being undrafted. If we need size up front what about getting Mitch to look his way before he departs? Forget Harrington and find someone we can afford and work with. Sam Amico wrote about him on Aug 11. http://probasketballnews.com/amico_blog.html

We need to do something to get big and toughen up (sounds like I am on the Muscle and Fitness blog now) and the free agents are dying up quickly this time of the year.

T-Woody

have you guys ever read Roland's book...I have to say it opened my eyes tremendously (well that and other sources).

If it makes any difference, Cook has said that he feels Kobe is more trusting and open this couple of seasons than he has in the past. Course that doesn't really correllate with PJ's book comment in which he said Kobe would "coach" (or help out) young players while they're in a timeout, or the fact that this is now his team.

Kobe's marketing campaign is fact...it wasn't contrived or a ploy (though it's a brilliant one). In my opinion people do love him or hate him...as indicative by that whole dichotomy being referenced long before the commercial.

In the end, I'll have to agree that while I'm a big believer that there are some biased media out there (remember BSPN?) the K Bros are as far away from them as possible. Course that doesn't explain their "slant" on Kwame LOL...jk. They strive to be subjective often at the risk of looking like they're not fans at all...all for the good of the blog. Now if only the rest of the "media" would do the same (or be partially unbiased for that matter, esp our "local" media).

Mike T,

No, I don't think Shaq and Phil had anything to do with Kobe isolating himself. For one, Kobe was with the Lakers and developed his reputation for four years before Phil got there, and by all accounts of everything I read (which is what I assume is the same stuff you've read and use as evidence since neither of us was actually on the team) Kobe did all the isolating himself, it was just his way of doing business.

I also don't think Shaq or Phil ever pitted Kobe against his teammates or the media. He was known by many who covered and followed the team to NOT include himself in activities such as going out to dinner, movies, etc. when on the road, which is his perogative, but you have to agree that actions like that would cause some alienation amongst you and your teammates.

And I don't think either Shaq or Phil downplayed his greatness. I distinctly remember Shaq calling Kobe the best player in the league.

As for the $130 million, that's strictly a business decision by Dr. Buss and has nothing to do with this conversation at all.

Ultimately Kobe made his bed and has spent most of his career lying in it. I like the fact that he seems to be making positive progress towards a "warmer" public image, he just made it more difficult than it had to be.

Taka,

It was a 22 team deal see. You get KG and Iverson, or comparable. All make believe. For once, I thought some of you people might relate.

I just like the feel of "Brokebacks".

It's under your skin.

Taliq,

"Maybe wahat you're trying to say is umm...hey dude this is a blog and i dnt have time to ensure each post is balanced, if it was an article, then sure. But on the blog i just expect my posts to be accumulative and not have 1 singled out. Talk to me AK, tell me where ya comin frum ;)"

Honestly, that point feels so obvious I didn't feel it needed to be expressly stated, especially to someone who's been reading the blog for a while and has a pretty good idea what I've written. But that certainly covers some of my perspective, yes.

Again, if you wanna disagree with me, disagree with me. I've never asked people to be on board with my every opinion. I don't care if people aren't on board with any of my opinions. But to "require" me to include various sources with every single comment I make, essentially turning anything I say into a formal article, is pretty unreasonable. Not only don't I have time for that, but it's completely unnecessary for a topic ("Kobe's a pretty guarded guy who hasn't trusted easily") that's been pretty freakin' well documented and never particularly disputed. Even those in the media who think Kobe gets a bad rap (Greg Anthony, the "Loose Cannons" guys) have conceded this point.

It just feels like some Kobe worshippers (and I think it's safe to say anyone signing their posts with "In Kobe we trust" falls into that category) are stubbornly trying to avoid a simple truth about Kobe. He's made some mistakes. Haven't we all? Doesn't mean EVERYTHING in the world is all Kobe's fault. It just means he carries SOME responsbility. And I think he's making progess in improving upon them. Hopefully, it continues. Can't we just leave it at that?

AK

Taliq -- I didn't know you was from Crown Heights??? I am from Jamaica Queens but I lived in BedStuy for 10 years (not too far from Crown Hghts) any ole wayz..

Though at first I though Tariq was being too hard on AK, now I think he has a legit point.

It isn't that AK is wrong about his facts, it is that he continues to drag out the facts of past years while ignoring the most recent evidence. Maybe Kobe has already changed and realized the error of his past ways. Maybe his maturation has already taken place. And maybe the media, AK included, continue to latch on unfairly to the confortable stereotypes of the past.

AK says he just wants Kobe to be more instinctively open to those around him. The past year or two I think all the evidence suggests he has been more open--to his teammates and the public. To say or imply otherwise is unfair.

LucasinOhio,

Not only have I acknowledged that Kobe's made some strides in that area, I actually said that in my original comment that sparked all this. That's just gotten lost in the shuffle because people are jumping all over the part of the comment they didn't like.

AK

ANDREW Z!

"I think ESPN shot JFK."

LMAO

That is about the funniest post you've ever made!

--Fearless

SLMAO

T-Woody,

"But I would rather have Fish than Evans, Smush or Sasha in the line up today, follower or not."

I could not have said that better myself. I'd take Fish and his fat contract and all. In a heartbeat.

--Fearless

Dude! You are on a roll today.

lakersrydeordie,
"I think there is a consensus that we need a bunch of stars to become successful and advance. "

No one has said that the Lakers need a bunch of stars. What most are saying is that the Lakers need someone else performing at the all-star level, and better play out of several more positions. The "better play" could be achieved by current Lakers improving, or it could be achieved by bringing in someone else currently not with the Lakers.

Sonnyfart!!

Will you shut up already. Do not force me to use the force!!!

We get it now, you hate Kobe and you want the lakers to trade him!!

AK can we please trade this idiot or better still
create him his own blog so he can blog himself all day and agree with himself to his hearts content.

We on this blog have long suspected the Sonnyfart is the long lost illegitimate son of 'Steven' & 'Tarugo'.

May the Force be with You!!

Sith_Lord

I agree with Mamba. You put the Kobes, Shaq, DWade, T-Macs in a room and they are all after the spotlight. They have all been selected almost from the day they stepped on a court to be the godsends of thier generation of players. That is a lot of presure on a jr high or high school kid. No one has ever been willing to tell them no. That is why we get ego problems. They surround themselves with yes men and then don't like it when people start to distrust them or dislike them. I love Kobe, but I also understand that he is human and has the same potential for dissaster or success as the rest of us. We created the monsters ourselves, then we don't like where they end up.

T-Woody

Oh well its official...

Al is a Pacer. :(

I think the Kobe Shaq thing was as much the managements fault as thiers. They were both selfish and pig headed but I refer back to my other post that we all made them what they are today. Mitch and Phil should have stepped in before it escalated to the level it did. But water under the foot bridge now. Just learn from the mistakes and don't let it happen again.

And I for one, would love AK's job, maybe he needs an assistant that is not blood related?

AK,

I think what many find frustrating is that the subject keeps coming up with no apparent impetus. Is there a fresh new story about Kobe being selfish? The other part I find distressing is that you feel saying he has taken strides is enough. How many strides must he take before you stop emphasizing the past stereotype? At what point will you be willing to declare his rehab is complete? If the answer comes down to winning a championship, then the relevance of his so-called problems should be questioned, since he helped to win three just fine despite his selfish ways. Any other criteria would seem to be even more arbitrary.

I want to say that normally I just read this blog and note how intense Laker fans are. But I do acknowledge all of your objective reporting on the Lakers, and believe you do an admirable job-especially given the intensity I mentioned already. I also believe you to be one of Kobe's supporters and a true fan.

It wouldn't be right on this blog, however, to not get in one last word. Whenever you note his past problems, you place a huge presumption against him that is very unfair. It is as though those same problems are continually plaguing the Lakers as a team, when they do anything but. And you didn't have anything to with "Kobe's me problem" (an article on ESPN about Kobe watching team USA from the stands and failing to use the word "we"--implying all kinds of negative and incendiary things and based on absolutely nothing), but when you continually raise this as a valid subject, the negative aspects are both assumed and dignified in the present day all over again. Just as that ridiculous story reminded everyone how selfish Kobe used to be and, by extension according to certain ESPN writers, still is.

wiZo:

I wanted to thank you for your excellent post regarding how difficult it must have been for Kobe as a 17 year old Laker rookie who worked harder than anybody else on the team. Your comparisons to Rudy and the peer pressure for Kobe “to lighten up” were very insightful.

I wish Kobe had never gone to Colorado to have his knee operated on. As a one-time aspiring lawyer, I followed the legal case in Colorado intensely and was totally convinced that Kobe had not committed the crime of which he was accused. Most of the knowledgeable legal experts felt that that there had not been enough evidence to justify filing charges. Unfortunately, even though the case was settled, there will always be those who believed wrongly that Kobe “bought” his way out of the situation and must have been “guilty” on some level. Kobe stood no chance against the political correctness of the women’s movement in Colorado at that time.

That Kobe did unfortunately cheat on his wife and did thoughtlessly invoke Shaq’s name were devastating blows against his up-to-then perfect public image and reputation. This is where the “Love me or hate me” version of Kobe Bryant was truly born. Even the media that was willing to concede that a crime had not been committed crucified Kobe for his “offenses” against his wife and teammate. His fall from the pedestal of perfection was truly that of a saint found to be a sinner.

I hope someday that Kobe’s great performances, his many good deeds and actions, and the passage of time will give him some peace of mind and blunt the criticism that the media and the Kobe haters are “so ready” to dispense whenever his name comes up. None of us are perfect and I am sure Kobe has already paid a greater price for his "sins" than any of us could imagine.

Very few people today really remember all of the criticism and questions Jordan faced during his early years for his gambling, his father’s death, and his marital infidelities, just as few people seem to remember how Magic Johnson contracted HIV. Until then, however, it will always be “love me or hate me” for many people whenever Kobe Bryant’s name comes up. Fair or unfair, that's the price and the cross that Kobe must bear.

Tom

You guys have it all wrong. All of you were worried about getting Al Harrington, a man who definitely does not fit the bill for our squad. Dont get me wrong, he's a great player, a good asset, just not for us.

Whats wrong with pieces we have? Are we forgetting we have one of the best three point shooters in Rad. The best player since Michael in Kobe, the most versatile and stat-stuffer player in Odom.

And while we're all talking about Bynum and his potential, we seem to forget about Roni. Roni can straight-up play!

Lets give Farmar and Bynum some room to breathe and grow. Lets not set them up for failure by billing them up too high.

The key words are "status quo" (how things are now). I like these Lakers. I dont expect any more changes, and I wouldnt mind if there arent any.

They're good now..... on paper.

I guess we'll see.

LakerTom,

As usual, your comments are very salient. I did mention in this Blog that Magic Johnson's indiscretions were to a level that no man should ever reach. He risked the lives of his wife and daughter and was lucky to get out of that "relatively" unscathed (if you can call being HIV positive unscathed).

But, Magic is personable, so the press gives him a huge pass. I think that is what AK is talking about.

On the other hand, the level of fairness being leveled against you by the press should not be dependant on how cozy you are with them. So, I understand the utter frustration of the dissenters.

The truth is that Kobe's court case should have had absolutely no impact on his professional career and the Press' treatment of him because it never went to trial. But, the reality is that court cases affect careers, even if you are completely exonerated. Not fair, but true.

It is what it is.

--Fearless

Fearless:

I do remember your post. It's amazing the incredibly stupid things that "good" people sometimes do and it's important to always remember that we are all human and capable of great mistakes. Luckily, Magic and his family survived his stupidity and hopefully Kobe and his family survived his stupidity. And that's more important in the final analysis than either of their basketball careers. I hope the best for both of them for the joys they have given me and will always love them despite their "sins."

And as we both have said, it isn't fair but "it is what it is." Three more rings and a few years of being a great team leader and maybe by the time Kobe retires, the haters will have faded into the woodwork, as they did with Michael and Magic.

Thanks, Fearless. Go, Lakers. Go, Kobe.

Tom

Jobi - Good Comments, Harrington would have been a lousy fit and everyone is sleeping on Turiaf. Because Turiaf jumps up and down a lot on the bench, I think a lot of Laker fans have him pegged as some kind of Mark Madsen-type. Not so, Turiaf has good hands and feet, unlike Madsen.

AK - I don't disagree with your perception of Kobe and how he is seen as separate and aloof from his teammates. What I find strange is that the history of sports is full of great players who can be perceived exactly the same way and are not.

Could the same thing not be said about Ted Williams, Joe DiMaggio or even St. Michael Jordan (to name a few)? Super talent combined with a relentless work ethic is going to put a lot of teammates off, but Kobe is one of the few who is consistently villified. I have read in various places that LeBron James can be a bit of a pill, but this is not part of the "official" mythology being built around him.

I guess the bottom line is that Kobe bears a big piece of the blame for how he is perceived, but don't dismiss the mass media's role in this. Is there another player in the NBA who could average 35 PPG, make 1st Team All-Defense, improve his team by 11 games in the standings and finish FOURTH in MVP voting? That's the media and the media alone.

Joby,
I agree with everything except your comments about Turiaf. At this point we have no idea whether or not he can play at this level. He certainly has a great attitude, but that doesn't always translate to performance on the court.

Jman,

It's interesting how media perceptions often shift and change. With Ted Williams and Joe D, comparisons are impossible because news was so different back then. But people forget that Jordan started out taking a LOT of media flak. They didn't like that he was a ball hog. They didn't like that he wore sweat suits everywhere. They thought he was selfish. Then things eventually turned his way. And it was the result of both MJ and the media changing.

People also forget that Kobe began his career as a media darling. He was the young, good looking, smart, clean cut kid who did the angelic McDonalds commercials and was the heir to MJ. Plus, Shaq was taking a fair amount of heat for not bringing the Lakers a title. Then word started getting out about his relationship with Shaq and (later) Phil. Stuff grew more public (the fault of Shaq, Kobe, Phil and just about everyone involved) and things slowly eroded. But he was still in reasonably good shape.

Then came Colorado, which obviously didn't help. But honestly, while the media undoubtedly sensationalized the case by keeping it front page news, I also think they were pretty fair in maintaining a "benefit of the doubt" stance. Whether that was because (like me) they felt Kobe was innocent, were worried about libel issues, or simply didn't want to permanently destroy any future interaction with Kobe, I can't say. But you didn't see many, if any, writers/analysts taking a stand against Kobe when it came to guilt or innocence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I really think Kobe's image started taking a beating on a regular basis after the core dismantled, especially with fans. Early on in the 2004-2005 season, I actually heard some boos for Kobe upon his introduction at Staples. And Shaq probably got more cheers than him during Heat-Lakers I. A little weird, but it also made some sense, because many fans/media blamed Kobe for the team’s situation at the time.

In their minds, he orchestrated the entire break up in quest for solo-glory. He took the Lakers hostage during his free agency period after they stood by him during the Colorado drama. He forced the speed of the Lakers' hand, which made them take a bad trade for Shaq. He wasn't capable of leading the troops in the first post-Shaq season. And so on and so forth. That's where the bottom dropped out, in my mind. It’s one thing standing by him as the rape charges played out, because many thought he was innocent. But when it came to his effect on the Lakers during that period, folks were less forgiving.

Are ALL of those accusations fair? No, of course not. Are SOME? Yeah, unfortunately, I think so. But at this point, it's almost irrelevant if they're fair or unfair. They're simply what Kobe's had to live with and through.

But I do think things are slowly moving in a positive direction. It helps that the team is winning and Kobe-Phil II has been drama-free. Kobe’s loosening up a bit, on and off the court. And if Kobe continues to play the way he did in the playoffs, relinquishing some control and trusting his teammates in a more unconditional fashion, he's gonna see his coverage grow more favorable. I said that after the playoffs and I still think it. Maybe I'm naive, but I also work in this world, too. Yeah, some writers will still have it out for him. So be it. But the majority are concerned about maintaining some integrity, and if it’s obvious that Kobe’s changing, they’re gonna feel obligated to acknowledge it. Besides, the “Kobe’s Transformation” angle makes for a good story. If it’s there, these guys aren’t gonna pass up the opportunity to jump on whatever bandwagon. That’s happened with plenty of other athletes. It can happen for Kobe. Give it time and be patient. Just as people can’t expect Kobe to change overnight, neither will the coverage.

AK