Lamar's Final Conference
Next on the exit press conference list, Lamar Odom. Dickens had A Tale of Two Cities, L.O. had A Tale of Two Seasons- the first and second halves. His splits show increased scoring and assists after the All Star Break, but there is no stat to measure the increased confidence and assertiveness he showed on the court. Here's what L.O. had to say on his way out, with a very busy summer in front of him.
BK
On his meeting with PJ-
"It was cool. Just talked about some of the things I've got coming up this summer, as far as auditioning to go play in the World Games, what I plan to do to keep in shape. Talked about the season I had, my position, where I like to play, where I'm most comfortable at- a question you (the media) often ask me."
You guys are still talking about that?
"This is the time to talk about it. I'm most comfortable playing towards my mismatches. Big guy on me, take him outside. Small guy on me, take him inside. In the triangle, I was comfortable in learning how to control the tempo from that position, playing the guard spot. So next year I figure most likely it'll be the same role. Now that I know the offense, of course I feel a lot more comfortable in it. I guess I'm just looking forward to staying in shape this summer, coming back here, and getting back at it again. It was an emotional ride, especially towards the end of the season for us, as far as fighting for a playoff position, making it to the playoffs, being up three on Kobe's shot, and now we're on the outside looking in. Phoenix played great ball to come back from 3-1. I take my hat off to them because they beat us." *
*L.O., a sensitive guy as it is, was clearly still taking the playoff loss hard... which is a good thing. You wouldn't want guys to blow it off.
On satisfaction they can take from what they did accomplish this season-
"When we look back at it, we look back at the beginning of last year, and of course not picked to make the playoffs, not playing in the postseason. So to be able to fight and coming together late in the year and taking the 7th spot, (and) be six seconds away from advancing. We had a great year, but you know, of course it hurts."
On finding stability this summer-
"I hope so. I understand the business of basketball. But I hope and I pray that this is my home, and this is where I'll end my career. It's a great franchise, and they have great people here. This has got to be one of the coolest places to play basketball. You have Denzel Washington at the games, Jack's at the games, (Lakers P.R. chief) John Black's at the games, Brad Turner (of the Press Enterprise) is at the games (at this point, L.O. is having a little fun...). This is a good place to play basketball. Last year we didn't make the playoffs and this year, we were playing in the first round. Playing in Staples Center was amazing and the energy that was in that building was incredible. You know, I'd love to see that for the rest of my career."
So would you classify this as a successful season?
"Of course right now I've got mixed emotions from a competitive standpoint. I wish I could keep playing. I went from watching every playoff game while we were playing, to (now) I don't even want to watch TV, I don't want to watch Sportscenter right now. It hurts a little bit to watch these other teams keep playing, but a couple of weeks I guess I'll get over it and be able to watch the Western Conference Finals. This second round is most likely definitely skipped."
On what he'd like to improve on over the summer-
"Oh, man, there are a lot of things. Coming back as a better basketball player just in general. When it comes to free throw shooting, stand still shooting, going left, going right, add a hook shot, turnaround jumpers, to become stronger, become quicker. Just to better my all-around game. On free throws, I think about the good six games I had in the series I shot horrible from the free throw line. Just those four or five points could have been difference makers, especially in that Game Six."
On what the team needs to improve-
"Time together. Maturity. Time together as far as playing in this system. We were the youngest team in the league by age. Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Andrew Bynum. Of course we need everyone to take their games to another level, and myself of course. This year was big also for Smush. This was really his rookie year as far as the NBA is concerned, starting 82 games. Just player development, really, on the court. Time together. Chris Mihm was playing great basketball, it was unfortunate for him and for us that he hurt his ankle. If we can get Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown to play the way they were playing at the end of the year together, with Andrew Bynum and his development working with Kareem- inside our triangle, Luke played great- if we can get those guys to play like they were playing towards the end of the year, throw Andrew in there to protect that basket for us, we'll become a much better defensive team. We'll be able to pressure up a lot more, and get those guys to protect our basket at all times like they did towards the end of the year this team will be tough."
On his game taking off after the trade deadline-
"I just think that was the system, and getting comfortable with the system. It just happened to be towards the end of the year. (If the deadline) was from November to December, I don't think my game would have picked up right at the end of December or January. I think it was just the time. It was towards the end of the year, I was feeling a lot more comfortable in the offense. Like I told you, I understand the business. You can be here one day and be traded the next. I don't really think it was me being comfortable with I wasn't being traded. I just think it was the time it took to really understand the offense. To understand how to manipulate the offense. For me to be able to catch the ball in the post, staying aggressive in the offense, and really learning it inside out. And once that happened, I just felt a lot more comfortable offensively as far as shooting the ball, where I'm shooting from, finding my sweet spots on the court. And it just so too that I hit a rhythm, too. It felt like every three was going to go in, I just felt really comfortable. Shot the ball better from the free throw line."
On the Lakers encouraging him to become an All Star player-
"They don't really have to say that to me. I kind of know it's expected because what I bring to any team I've been on, I feel like I have that potential. It's going to take some balance as far as learning the system, which I felt like I've learned, and hopefully I can put it together- hopefully offensively I hope I can put together, the spurt that I had at the end of the season I hope I can bring that type of offensive balance to my game so my name can be out there as far as being an All Star. I was only I think two or three baskets away from making that team, so hopefully I can average 20 points and 9 rebounds and 6 assists so I can be talked about in that light, as far as being one of the best players in the league. At least for a year. That's what the All Star team makes you, one of the best players in the league for that year. So I feel like I got that potential inside me, that I should be an All Star, become an All Star."
Kobe said the way you ended the season established you as one of the best players in the game-
"As far as showing everybody, right? For six games or whatever, I averaged 20 points. 20 points is usually what it takes (for) you to be considered a good player in this league. 20 points, and got some rebounds, five or six assists. I felt like I was. In that series, I definitely felt like I was one of the best players in the game. I think I have that in me. I think I can still get to that level of play where people acknowledge me as being one of the best players in the NBA. Top 25, top 20 players in the league. There are a lot of talented players out there, but I feel like what I bring to the table could definitely get that acknowledgment. And coming from a player like Kobe, of course that's a compliment. He's a tough critic."
Did Phil talk about you finishing with your right hand?
"Yeah, he was upstairs and he had a couple of right handed jokes. But I guess I'm a creature of habit. But that's definitely part of my game that I'm going to work on a lot this year. Being a great standstill shooter. I haven't mastered that part of the game yet. Being more consistent from the free throw line. I think I have a good enough touch and range on my jumper where I should be shooting in the high seventies to low eighties rather than low seventies, high sixties. I know I'm better than that. And that will definitely help my average, my points per game, things like that, being more consistent, I think I can hurt teams a lot. I think I can get to the free throw line a lot."
On this summer and USA Basketball, what he hopes to get out of it-
"I hope we can win. The relationships that you make with coaches that never coached you before, players you never have been around. And I feel like I have some making up to do because I was on a team of course that lost. Well, we won a bronze medal, but I guess to USA Basketball, to our standards, to the guys that were on the court, we felt like we lost. So to go back over there to the World Championships and win and kind of reclaim our spot as having the best basketball in the world. To let people know, again, that I'm one of the best young players- I don't know if they'll consider me young in the NBA next season at 27- but to consider myself as one of the best players in the NBA. Last time I went I had a great time. Even in games we lost I felt like I played hard, and I was able to make a name for myself. So I guess to go over there and do that again. And to be on the court with Dwayne Wade and LeBron, and Elton Brand will be on that team. Hopefully I can get a spot.
I would say NO on the KG trade, as well. I can't believe how many of us are saying so after so many people wanted him before the trade deadline. It's just funny, but that's how much everyone improved in the second half (more like last third) of the season.
Posted by: JF | May 10, 2006 at 06:55 PM
In my opinion what we need more than anything else is an on-the-ball defender who can guard the small quick PG's in the western conference (Nash, TParker, Bibby, CPaul, DStaudamire, etc). Sasha may become that player, but I don't think he's quick enough. Who's available out there?
Posted by: rdlee | May 10, 2006 at 08:20 PM
Exhelodrvr & AZ,
I totally agree with your assessment on K'me... When he succesfully bodied Shaq and Duncan, we spotted a PF of the future. Then, the injury of Mihm happened, K'me made giant strides in the center but we were playing against 2nd tier teams, so we're not totally sure. During the playoffs, he was decent during the first two games when he was not guarded, later on he messed-up in the succeeding games big time, can't figure-out what move he'll take or can't get the ball. If you were a GM in other teams, would you trade your regulars with Kwame who has really no value at this time? The GM might want to observe him more until next year when he becomes a free agent. - "K'me is like a nice shirt that you want to wear but not comfortable wearing it, it is a so-so, you leave it in the closet in case you run out of shirts or include it in the donation box." - On the contrary, he's still young, he might learn how to play offense and defense. In fairness to him, I hope we swallow our words in the future.
Lamar will really improve his game when he teams-up with Kobe during the World Basketball competitions this summer with other NBA stars. We may expect some synergism in their games next season. Lamar needs to be exposed more w/ Magic and also another round with Scottie. If he could mix his repertoire with the styles of these two Superstars, he could be explosive and might even surpass Kobe. In the spirit of salary cap, let us just stick with LO next year, perhaps KG could wait until '08 when he can join with LO and Kobe as a free agent. Are you all aware that KG has a property here in Southern California? If that happens, the convergence of three Superstars plus a young Bynum (ala Kareem) and a speedy PG, we can really talk of Championship in '08.
Posted by: Edwin Gueco | May 10, 2006 at 09:05 PM
very good interview, i feel with L.O. i havent looked at espn, or anything related to sports since game 7...
Go Lakers...
Posted by: TrueLakerFan | May 10, 2006 at 09:18 PM
the clips are winning! yeah! bring home the bacon clippers! the city of L.A. will again, be the city of champs! I LOVE L.A.!
F.Y.I. - I am not a Clipper bandwagon. I've been an L.A.-team fan. I love L.A. teams!
BEAT NASH! THE MVP! THE MOST VALUABLE POSTER!
*GO CLIPPERS!
Posted by: shaq_hater | May 10, 2006 at 09:21 PM
Hello Lakerland,
Now that’s it’s been a few days and I am finally able to watch a basketball game, I can put my two cents in, if anybody cares.
As far as losing to Suns…
We lost to a better team. They lived up to their 2nd seed and we lived up to our 7th. The fact that we drove them to seconds within elimination and the fact that many people jumped on our bandwagon is kudos for us. After hearing all the talk of us losing you would think that WE were the 2nd seed and we just got upset by the 7th seed. Kudos for us all around. We had a chance to put them away in Game 6 but our inexperience killed us. No matter, learn from your mistakes and come back stronger.
As far as Phil…
He could have made some adjustments, but the adjustments only work so far as the quality of the players. I don’t think there was much that Phil could have adjusted on that screen and roll other than to move Kobe over to that side. I think Phil chose to pick his poison, and unfortunately for everything Laker the Suns just got too hot. When you got Thomas, Barbosa, and Diaw shredding you it’s going to be a long day. Phil made some mistakes. But to question his commitment to winning is absurd. He is the best coach the Lakers can have. So fire him? Who are you going to replace him with? Adelman? Right! Larry Brown? Hell no! He is a grumpy old man past his prime. Stand Van Gundy? OK, you see where I’m getting at. There is one coach for the Lakers than can handle the pressure and lead us to victory. And the man is already sitting on our bench. Let it be.
Kobe…
I think Kobe got too wrapped around the reemergence of his image. I think Kobe felt he was having “fun” not because the way they were playing, but because they were singing his praises for the player he had apparently become. I think he didn’t chuck it up 50 times in Game 7 because he knew that it would look bad if he shot against 4 defenders. “Same old Kobe” people would have said. In all fairness, did you see how open the Suns left our players, daring them to make a shot. That was our downfall, not the fact that Kobe shot only 3 times in the second half. We picked a bad time to have a horrible game, but it wasn’t Kobe’s or Phil’s fault.
Lamar…
He’s finally getting there. I see nothing but good things. Our nucleus is complete.
The team…
Contrary to what most people believe I think we need guard help more than we need front court help. We need a defensive orientated point guard. We need a guard that can shoot the ball. We need a small forward that is not afraid to drive to the basket. I want to see more play in the paint. I want driving and cutting. No more of this jump shooting crap. If there is a three to be taken I want it to come from only 2 guys on the team. Smush needs to be a backup. If Smush is starting for us next year then we have failed in free agency. We need an enforcer. The one thing that I’m still disappointed about from Game 7 is that no one put one of the Suns on their ass. Barbosa, namely, should have kissed someone’s Converse on one than more occasion. We are “pussy cats”, but we need to change that some.
The outlook…
I now believe that we DO NOT need a Garnett-type player to win. We need the right role players around. Superstars do not necessarily mean championships. Every team that has won has had the right role players. Whether it’s a defensive stop, a rebound, a 3-pointer, or a strong layup, role players give the team the lift it needs to put the starters in a position to win games. He have the core; Lamar is untouchable. Get the right role players around Kobe/Lamar this offseason, then worry about the big fish next offseason. If that happens, I’ll see all of you in the 2008 Finals.
Posted by: LoLo | May 10, 2006 at 10:13 PM
Guys....I am a Laker fan since 6 years old but right now i gotta go for Clips right now. Since they're still representing LA and PHX beat Lakers...
THIS TIME ITS FOR LA!!!
ITS LA TIME!!! BEAT PHX!!
Posted by: Digtaz | May 10, 2006 at 10:16 PM
can't wait for next year.
Posted by: Unconfident | May 10, 2006 at 11:02 PM
Did you guys hear Barkley say after the Suns/Clips game that the voters who left Kobe off their MVP ballot should never get to vote again? Just thought you'd want to know.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 10, 2006 at 11:02 PM
AK,
Is it a love/hate relationship Charles has with Kobe?(haha)
Posted by: lakofan | May 10, 2006 at 11:10 PM
I heard that AK, it was nice of him to say! But I think Barkley is pro Kobe when Magic is around! Too bad there's no stat for Barkley's pro Kobe statements with Magic in the building!! It was also wierd because they were talking about Rookie Of The Year voting & Bark came outta nowhere & interjected the Kobe MVP thing. It's almost like he went out of the way to Big Up Kobe!!
Cool gesture but the book is still out on Barkley!!
P.S. I wish I could read the text messages Kobe sent to him!!! That would be an event of epic Blog proportions, AK!!! Make it happen for us!!
(I'm half joking!) Ha Ha!!
Posted by: Mitch | May 10, 2006 at 11:16 PM
Lakofan,
Haha. I know it may seem that way, but like BK and I have said, every time a member of the media criticizes Kobe, it's not automatically a question of "hating." Believe it or not, we do sometimes just call it like we see it, whether you agree or not. No more, no less, with nothing "behind it." I've been critical of Kobe many times and I don't have an axe to grind. Kobe's never done anything to make my life difficult, professionally or personally. I just thought there were certain things he could do better. It's really that simple. I've also praised the hell out of him quite a bit, too. And for that matter, so has Barkley, but the Kobe faithful (who are oft quite sensitive) tend to have memories like elephants when it comes to any slight. haha
Yeah, I'm sure some media criticism is personal, and I won't deny that (And for that matter, Kobe's not the only player who deals with that stuff). But there's a difference between "some" and "100%" and many Kobe fans simply won't accept that.
But either way, I agree with Charles. While I think you can make very good arguments voting for or against him as MVP, it's hard to make a case for him out of the top 5. You're gonna have to work to convince a jury on that one.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 10, 2006 at 11:37 PM
BK,
Thanks for the interview. I'd like LO to stay and not be traded for KG. The way I see it, it looks like KG has a lot of mileage in him seeing as how he put the T'Wolves on his back most games. Remember it was only when Cassel and Sprewell were with them that he had some help. LO is younger and has a greater upside. The best is yet to come. He sounds like he's in earnest of working hard on his game.
Contrary to what others think, there is no upside to losing to the Suns. I don't think that losing to the Clippers is worse. I still would have wanted to see the Lakers get to the second round. Blowing that 3-1 lead is worse IMHO. But I'm over that now. Clippers' bragging rights are only good for this year. I'm looking forward to next year and I hope that most of them return to the Lakers next year for continuity's sake. I think they will come back a stronger team from all the battles they fought together.
Posted by: SamII | May 10, 2006 at 11:59 PM
Yeah hopefully Kobe will take Odom under his wing during this whole International thing. That way, he can make sure Lamar doesn't pull a Towelie on all that work he says he plans to put in during the off-season.
Posted by: lakersin08 | May 11, 2006 at 01:02 AM
I don't want to trade LO; I think we have a solid core and I love his play and loyalty, love what he did in the playoffs. If we get Sam Cassell at PG we could make a 55+ team next year. Kwame should be the starting center, in my opinion. I favor playing him with Mihm coming in off the bench. I see Bynum getting 20 or less minutes, barring injuries. I think Mihm gets all the fouls because he needs to bulk up. As a result of this, I think he will always be limited to being a good backup center. Back to the point. With Cassell, Kobe, Lamar, and Luke all having good passing games and with the added closing experience of Cassell and his proven ability to excel on new teams I see Cassell as being the best bet for us in terms of offseason aquisitions. Kareem Rush and just about everyone else I see is too much of a shot in the dark. Cassell is smart, experienced, and with our starting five he would probably average his best shooting percentage. Honestly, he is aging extremely well. I think we would have to go over our 5 mil to get him, though. I read that it is estimated he wants 6-8 mil a year and a 2-year contract. Sounds like a perfect fit, and he's already in L.A.
Posted by: Marcus | May 11, 2006 at 01:55 AM
Much as i'd love to see KG in a lakers uniform (alongside kobe, of course)... what in the world would make you think the Wolves would give him up for any or all of our players not named Kobe?
Posted by: Don | May 11, 2006 at 05:41 AM
Ravi,
"exhelodrvr (btw, whats with your name?!)"
I'm a retired Navy helo pilot.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | May 11, 2006 at 05:44 AM
hey yaw! from north carolina! lo needs to stay period like kob said "thats my guy" mitch isnt that dumb when we had such great locker-room comrodary wtf! We dont need anymore young guys to come in. in the draft we need to draft a senior someone who is fundamentally sound and knows what hes doing, as far as trades go what about pietrus from g.s.,or wally,or stackhouse, or finley. I think we really need someone like finley almost wouldve liked them to sign derek anderson when he was cut instead of jj,what about kenyon and kwame down low that could be dangerous, hell id even take tim thomas the laker killer.
Posted by: smooth d | May 11, 2006 at 06:24 AM
AK,
I agree with Barkley. Not sure how anyone could leave Kobe off the ballot, regardless of the definition of MVP. Remember the Fred Hickman - Shaq controversy with the MVP vote in 2000 or 2001? I think Hickman argued then that the Sixers would not have made the playoffs without Iverson, thus Iverson was most valuable. Others argued that Shaq was the best player and deserved MVP. Seems to me that Kobe fits either argument and should have at least been on every ballot.
Do you have any insight into the voting process? How does one get asked to vote?
Posted by: teamn | May 11, 2006 at 07:34 AM
AK/BK,
Would you not trade LO for KG if a deal presented itself this summer?
LO is a nice player but KG is still too much of a player not to trade for, if a deal happened.
Posted by: ravi | May 11, 2006 at 07:36 AM
AK,
This whole game 7 thing is just shameful. Phil said kobe stuck to the game plan. Kobe said he stuck to the game plan. His teammates said he stuck to the game plan. Yet the media is "calling it like they see it".
Sure we all know kobe is a fiercely competitive guy but why is it so improbable that he went "i was shooting well but we're down 15, for once let me resist the urge within and continue trusting my teammates, it got us this far and well if we lose at least we lose as a team". I'd understand if people are saying the lakers should have thrown the game plan out d window once they got down by 20, but to go oh "he's lying, he must have quit cuz the kobe we know would have gone out gun's blazing and said fcuk the game plan" just seems malicious. When he stuck to the game plan and won, the media was like wow so un-kobe like, this is the kobe we like, this is how they should have been playing all year. So an un-kobe like performance that results in a win is not "he quit but they still won". And an un-kobe like performance ( a.k.a the game plan ) that results in a terrible loss is not called wrong game plan or bad execution of the game plan but rather it's called quiting. And you know that's a terrible accusation to make against an athelete, shouldn't you guys hold yourselvess up to some standards/journalistic integrity before levying such serious accusations.
So yeah to us laker fans it's "hating" and believe it or not we're just calling it like we see it
Posted by: Taliq | May 11, 2006 at 08:01 AM
Thoughts:
Im a patient guy...the 3-peat still has me satiated, as i'm still very greatful for it...without minor miracles in 2000 and 2002 it may well have been a solitary championship during the shaq-kobe years. So i dont mind waiting for more...
That being said, I am feeling decidedly impatient right now. The difference between this transition/re-building period and the last one (when Magic retired) is that we have KOBE instead of Sedalle Threatt. If the rebuilding takes too long this time (it took 5 years to land Shaq and become competitive again last time) we will be wasting the best years of KB's career.
Thats why, in regards to a trade for KG....i would....very reluctantly.....say that we would be foolish not to pull the trigger on that trade if the opportunity presents itself.
If we have to give up LO and anyone else other than Kwame, KB or AB, it would be a steal.
Even if we have to give up LO AND Kwame....KG will (as long as we are certain about his health/conditioning) transform us into instant tital contenders...(especially the way the west is looking pretty open these days). Grab Sam Cassell in free agency and we start Sam, KB in back court....Walton, KG and Mihm....(or, with maybe a little luck and time...KG, Mihm and Bynum, with walton, turiaf and smush off the bench.)
Thats a team that will win a title. And thats if we have to give up the Kwam as well as LO.
I love LO...and he could...repeat...COULD...become great. But if we have to let him go to get a guy who won an MVP a few years ago...in order to get the most out of KB's prime....so be it.
I have a feeling at least one of the K Bros will agree with me.
Posted by: Putrid | May 11, 2006 at 08:38 AM
"The problem is, he's not satisfied with that. He keeps trying to summon the charisma and integrity he doesn't possess, and the result is a guy who can't get out of his own way. He keeps trying to transcend the sport, when he should be content to dominate it."
I'm pro Kobe, but this quote struck a chord with me...
Posted by: bayarealakerfan | May 11, 2006 at 08:38 AM
The Lakers should trade/beg for Daniel Ewing of the Clippers. The guy is fast, has a great shot and is buried in the Clippers line-up behind Shaun Livingston and Sam Cassell.
He's a much better player than Smush Parker or Aaron McKie.
Another comment: I am wary of bringing Kevin Garnett into the Lakers because incredible player that he is, he probably has two or three great years left in him and we'd have to probably give up Lamar, Kwame, and Bynum to get him. That just doesn't feel right.
Of course, Kobe and KG on the same team with solid role players like Devean George, Luke Walton, and Chris Mihm equals a championship.
So...
Yeah...
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon Kavulic | May 11, 2006 at 08:49 AM
If the Lakers can add an All Star to the core of Odom/Bryant, I think they will be in GREAT shape. You can see how great the Lakers play when Kwame plays like and All-Star, now if we can find someone to do that with consistency, we can be a 50-60 win team, easy.
Posted by: Blind Worshipper | May 11, 2006 at 08:54 AM
I would definitely trade for KG if we could. That would instantly make us a contender for at least the next several years. As it is, with the current roster we are gambling that a number of players who have been consistently inconsistent will show significant improvement. More often than not those gambles do not pay off. So yes, get Garnett if you can.
Posted by: exhelodrvr | May 11, 2006 at 09:03 AM
AK,
When I say hate I don’t mean that Charles hates Kobe. It’s just a saying, more like jealousy, envy, not liking his character, stuff like that (I don‘t define that as actual hate.) I’ll agree with you that some fans are sensitive when it comes to some media members criticizing Kobe. Kobe’s not perfect by any means; he makes mistakes like we all do. His mistakes on and off the court are blown out of proportion to create controversy and that’s what I don’t like.
What Charles did when he said that Kobe quit on his team was putting in question Kobe’s work ethic and that’s wrong. With that simple comment the whole media when with it, held to that comment and began to destroy Kobe’s work ethic and that is just wrong. That is why Kobe confronted Charles about that comment. I think that Kobe will allow all kinds of comments about him and let them go (he has to let them go, is just part of being famous), except when they criticize his work ethic. Especially when the media and the fans know that Kobe is all about work and giving 100% to his work. That’s why I thought Charles comments hurt Kobe and Kobe wanted Charles to take his comments back, because it was questioning a person’s work ethic.
We all have opinions about others, we make assumptions about almost everything, hey sometimes we make assumptions about people we just see on the street talking. We create an image of people that we want to create. But Charles and the media need to understand that when they assume something about someone like Kobe (any media personality applies here, Kobe is just what we are talking about), they are not only saying it to themselves; millions of people are listening and in this day and age people listen to whatever the media says and assumes it is true. When Charles said Kobe quit it was WOW Charles said Kobe quit, it doesn’t matter if people say Charles is a clown nobody takes him serious, he said it and it was out there to take and ran with it. And see until today how many articles have been written about Kobe quitting and his work ethic?
You said plenty of times that you were just stating your opinion, and you told me in your response that Charles just said it like he saw it. That’s not right, assumptions are not facts, they are your opinions, your feelings about what happened. To report it on paper or via television is wrong, specially when people are just looking for any little thing to get into the ‘aaahhhh see even he says Kobe doesn’t even have a work ethic and he should know he’s a basketball player.’
Like you said AK people are sometimes sensitive about certain comments, but as some people are just to sensitive about certain comments, some people are just waiting for some media members to say something negative and just exploit it until the next negative comment comes. It is wrong how our society works, how people go by what other people think. Especially when they go by what the media thinks, that’s why someone who has the power to be on television or to write a column should be careful about what he/she says/writes.
Posted by: lakofan | May 11, 2006 at 09:09 AM
As long as he stays off the pot, he can be more consistent.
Posted by: ocho | May 11, 2006 at 09:13 AM
I'm looking forward to Mike T's promised riposte in regards to his PJ Conspiracy Theory post. Hopefully he'll post it here. And hopefully the guy will have the sense to say 1) I was just kidding; or 2) I was really baked and had watched an X-Files marathon when i wrote that post; or 3)an imposter wrote it.
Lets see.
Posted by: Putrid | May 11, 2006 at 09:20 AM
Mike (Philly): What are your thoughts on Kobe Bryant's performance Saturday night?
B.J. Armstrong: We can all speculate about what was going through his mind, but the fact of the matter is the Lakers had no answers on defense in Games 6 and 7, and if you can't get stops then the offense is always at a disadvantage. It's not like Kobe comes in and is under the radar, either. Give the Suns credit for using their offensive game play to also get in good positions on defense. Kobe was doing the right thing by passing out of double-teams, and if his teammates aren't hitting shots there's nothing else he can do. That's about all the analysis needed there.
Scoop's Game 7 Kobe Theory (See theory, not fact)B from LA: Does the three-shot Kobe second half make you look at him differently? Or are you still sipping the Kool Aid?
Scoop Jackson: I'll still drink the Aid as long as it does what it's been doing. The deal I believe is that something went down between Kobe and Phil Jackson at halftime that made Kobe shut it down in the second half. Was it selfish? Maybe. More than anything it was bad timing on his part. But let's be real, Phoenix had that game at the jump, Kobe knew it and so did Phil. But to not compete until the end is another story. That's why I believe that Phil said something to Kobe in front of the team that rocked him to the core. No other reason for him to take only three shots makes sense to me.
This is more or less responsible reporting, not just analyzing assumptions or personal biases.
Posted by: lakofan | May 11, 2006 at 09:30 AM
Edwin Gueco - If KG did join the lakers in 08, it would be a guaranteed championship for the next three years. Kevin, Kobe and Lamar can outplay anyone in their position, hands down. No team would be able to overcome those match ups, and just imagine what Kobe would be doing if he didn't eternally have 2 defenders on him?
As for my comments since the season is over, I don't post much but I think I can add something.
Kobe is still kobe. He hasn't really changed at all, except that for the past two years he has to jack up shots to make up for the lack of experience on the team. It's disapointing that his best player year had to be shutdown early in the first round, and his scoring title +81 point game are afterthoughts overshadowed in all the PHX drama and other nonsense.
This guy is going to retire never getting the respect he deserves. On the plus side, I still see his game improving, which is ridiculous. You can't teach shot selection, and he's clearly improving as a player and maturing. He's unguardable, an amazing defender (Look at past years when he didn't have to have the ball in his hands for 40 minutes, he stuck to his man)
Lamar is showing great strides as a player. I know it doesn't mean anything now, but I never once considered agreeing with the "proposed" KG trades the board whined about before the deadline. His ability to outperform any powerforward or small forward in the game cannot be traded. The same can be said for Garnet, but Lamar's game is even more versatile than his and he shows greater drive I think. This could all change if KG got a change of scenery, because I think everyone knows he's dying under the wolves.
Watching the season, I can't count the number of games we would have lost if LO wasn't on the floor. It seems to me that people just read box scores and watch highlight reels when forming their opinions of players. I live in new york and I can only watch the lakers when they are on the main networks, playing against my garbage NY/NJ teams or on the NBA channel because I can't get a league pass in my area. Do some of you even watch the lakers, or just read box scores and listen to sports writers?
So between all that, I think I watched maybe 30-35 lakers games throughout the season. LO influences the game so much with is intangibles, and his ability to run the floor, ball handle, block shots, slash, shoot, rebound and his only limiting factor is his confidence. He doesn't have low basketball IQ. He made one grave mistake in the regular season. That's it. He's not a stupid person and even Kobe has done questionable stuff in games.
I also recall the league MVP utterly threw two games this year against us in crunch time. Does Nash now have "low basketball IQ"? It's a bad argument and a cop out.
Kwame has shown great improvement, and he has a high upside. He wants to work, he wants to win and he is finally being accepted by a city. That looks like it adds up to success. People forget he was basically shit on in washington and towards the beginning of the season. How can you guys say trade this guy? You can't teach size, but you can certainly teach the skillset he needs to perform in the NBA. Did you see the fastbreak lob/left handed alley oop dunk in the regular season? This kid has potential and is shaping up nicely, and was a bargain considering he got rid of Caron who plays the most oversaturated position in the league and requires the ball to function. I see great things coming from Kwame, and am not limiting my vision to only what's in front of me.
With Phil Jackson on board, and seemingly looking like he will renew his contract in 3 years because he has some talent around him and prospects, I feel good about where the lakers are going and how they performed this season. I do think we need more depth on our bench, but that can be fixed through time or free agents.
Posted by: Evan | May 11, 2006 at 09:33 AM
AK/BK,
Maybe you guys can explain it to me. How is Bryant trying to transcend the sport?
Does Kobe have charisma problems? Does he seem to really care about that? You guys have seen him on and off the court. Does he seem like one of those guys whose trying to be something that he's not?
Am I off base or does his game have integrity. Does he work hard to perfect his game in the off season, does he practice and practice and practice, does he study the game, does he take the game seriously. Is he all about winning. Is he driven to do his part to win another championship. Does he appreciate being a Laker?
Let me know. I'm just asking.
Posted by: Fan of the Mamba | May 11, 2006 at 09:55 AM
Taliq,
I think it depends on how you're defining "quit." Like I told someone in an earlier thread, if you mean it like Kobe quit on a game he thought was winnable to prove a point about the roster, I strongly disagree.
But if you're defining "quit" as "mentally checked out after a certain point because he was frustrated by the unwinnable circumstances," I do think there's some truth to that. Even though the game plan had been to involve everyone (and Kobe had done a beautiful job with it), he was unusually unaggressive even by those standards in the second half. And given what was at stake, it was a bit of a head scratcher. Thus, people scratch their heads and try to figure something out. And this is my opinion.
And like I also said before, there's a large part of me that understands Kobe's reaction. And while it's a little disappointing, I honestly found it more genuinely depressing than anything else. I actually felt for Kobe on some level. That may very well be the first time he's ever said to himself, "There's no way in hell I can win" with that much time left in a game. And FYI, he was right. And I'm not sure he quite knew how to deal with that emotion, having never experienced it. Thus, I can cut him some slack. In the end, it's almost irrelevant how Kobe would have handled it, because every approach would have led to a loss.
Again, it all depends on how you define "quit" and I do think Chuck's take on "quit" was incorrect. But I don't think the word itself is entirely innappropriate. Does that make sense at all?
AK
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 11, 2006 at 09:56 AM
Lakofan,
You have to remember, Charles Barkley is an analyst. His job is literally to analyze, form opinions and say them publically. That's what he does. He takes his knowledge of the game, time spent around these players, and things he hears from people close to the teams, then draws conclusions. And you, as a viewer, have to realize that it's simply his take on things. It's up to the audience to decide what to believe 100%, 50% or 0%. But if people take Barkley and every member of the media's word as absolute fact without ever examining things on their own, that's not the media's fault. That's their fault for being sheep. But at the same time, if they automatically dismiss anything negative ever said about their favorite player as "hating," they're just sheep for that player. The truth often lies somewhere in the middle.
As for Barkley being jealous of Kobe's rings, there's probably a little truth to that. Who wouldn't be? But MJ's got 6 rings and he's Chuck's best friend. If Barkley was truly consumed by bling envy, there's no way he could be close to Jordan. I think Barkley is just tough on players, especially the ones annointed as great. He's harshly ripped on LeBron before. And given his career, he's got the credentials to back it up.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 11, 2006 at 10:18 AM
Taliq,
Props to you, man. My thoughts exactly.
AK,
Thanks for the clarification. It's good to have an understanding of your perspective. Keep up the good work!
Posted by: SamII | May 11, 2006 at 11:04 AM
AK,
That’s why I said that today’s society was wrong to take what the media says as the whole truth. As for as I am concern I have my own criteria and I can make my own judgments.
As for as Barkley I never said that he hated Kobe because he has rings and Barkley doesn’t. I was talking in general nothing specific, you assumed I was talking about that, well you assumed wrong. I could say that Barkley ‘hates’ on Kobe because Kobe could destroy his friend’s (Jordan) records, the notion that he was the best ever. I could say that him ’hating’ is because he is trying to protect Michael’s legacy and his own because he is Jordan’s friend (I could say it because I would be analyzing Barkley.) But to say this I would be assuming and I have no prove of this, just as Barkley has no prove that Kobe quit, being an analyst is not just calling it like you see it.
What I can tell you about Barkley is that he does have personal biases when reporting, because he was in fact a player and that takes over when analyzing a player not just Kobe all the players. Being a former player doesn’t make him a better analyst.
In the end nobody can analyze someone or something without personal biases skewing the outcome. And like you said it AK, Barkley just called it like he saw it nothing was analyzed there. You say that Barkley is a sport analyst (NBA.) For him analyzing is to give his opinion isn't it? Saying that Kobe was selfish because he quit the game to prove a point. That is a personal opinion like you have one, like I have one and like everyone here has one about what we saw in that game.
You say that he knows what goes on in the locker rooms, that his job is to analyze the game or the player. He has the luxury to go on national TV and give his opinion, not an unbiased report about a player or a game. In the end it all comes down to ethics and being responsible about what is said on TV or written on an article. But I guess Barkley is not a true journalist or analyst, he’s just one because he is a former basketball player.
Being honest these days it's hard to find an article or a TV show commentator to do a good job. Now is tabloid news first and selling than report the facts and the truth. And it is a shame that most people buy into the sensationalist reporting. And even worse that reporters, analyst have that kind of power.
Posted by: lakofan | May 11, 2006 at 12:24 PM
I think we're pretty lucky to have Lamar. I hope he stays around for a long while too.
Those are some leadership words. Next year, next year.
Keep ya head up LO.
Posted by: jq | May 11, 2006 at 01:08 PM
Lakofan,
I brought up the "jealousy over rings" theory because that's the most popular explanation many of the bloggers use. If I incorrectly lumped you into that category, I apologize.
That said, I also think you're confusing the Barkley's role (or that of any analyst) with that of a regular reporter. Barkley's not supposed to be giving a completely neutral, "just the facts ma'am" take. That's specifically NOT what an analyst does. An analyst, by design, gives his opinions and theories, based on info he gathers. Barkley's not being irresponsible. That's literally his job. Does that create bias to some degree? Of course. But again, that's why TNT's going to him for a supposedly informed opinion. If it's an opinion you deem too jaded, that's your choice. And if he's wrong, he's wrong. But analysts more or less always risk being wrong when it comes to certain things.
It's like the difference between Barkley and, say, Stuart Scott as a Sportscenter anchor. If Scott was doing highlights of game 7 and said, "And this is the point where Kobe quit," that would be out of his job description. Scott's just supposed to report the action. He might then ask Barkley (or some other analyst) for opinion as to why things went the way they did, and Barkley might attempt some insight. That's where the roles are different.
It's also like Mike Bresnahan, the L.A. Times' lakers beat writer and J.A. Adande, who's an L.A. Times columnist. Bresnahan is supposed to just report what happened without projecting much opinion. Adande is asked to be give an opinion. Whether you agree with Adande's opinion is irrelevant. Whether you think he's a hater with his opinions is irrelevant. If you think he's a hater, don't read his column. But either way, he's doing his job and doing it correctly.
I'm really enjoying the discussion. Thanks.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 11, 2006 at 04:03 PM
Its weird because before the All Star break i was 100% for the kevin garnett trade for odom... but now after the season ended i have my doubts. I mean im a big KG fan because he always gives you all his heart for each game just like kobe and plus hes one of those players that will complement kobe really well. For the past 2 years ive wanted kg...but now its really hard to say cause i have grown a big attachment to him for not only his big upside in his skills like kobe says but also because of his rare humility and passion to be great and his love for the game.Now i DEFINITELY believe that we shouldnt give up odom i mean hes only 27 and kg is already 30 with the wear and tear of burdening the lone scoring for so long. odom has so much more years ahead of him and he complements kobe so well that they basically praise each other all the time. i think the best idea would be to keep odom until kgs contract is up and becomes a free agent in 08 and that way we can get him for a cheaper price and STILL keep odom. I MEAN CAN U IMAGINE THAT??? odom kobe and kg all on the same team???isnt that better than giving up an all around player still not reaching his prime yet and taking a chance that kg will give us good years??? theres a no brainer in this one...i say laker fans just wait two more years..and well have ourseleves years of championship runs!!!!I love kobe...and lo and kg..and that would definitely be a dream come true with all three on the same team. AM I RIGHT PEOPLE???why give up odom now when u can have all three because u know that kgs summer house is here and hell never win a ring unless he comes to the lakers and he knows that...does anyone else agree????????????????????????????
Posted by: jen | May 11, 2006 at 04:12 PM
Lakofan,
I do agree with you about sensationalist journalism being out of control, for sure. It sometimes makes me ashamed to even be a part of the media, even though I'm not guilty of it. I just don't think Barkley is guilty of it, either. But again, simply my opinion.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 11, 2006 at 04:18 PM
AK!
OH NO you did not just bring Adande into this....ahhhh!
If there was one person I'm against, I think is the most bias, my most hateful commentator (as opposed to reporter)...it is ADANDE.
Shame on you AK...it's one thing to defend Barkley but now Adande? (shock)
lol...jk (I don't like him for sure...but I am kidding about the rant hehe).
Posted by: Faith | May 11, 2006 at 04:30 PM
Dear Ak,
don't u think itll be wise if we keep odom and just wait till kg becomes a free agent in 08???? instead of trading them and not having all three in about two years???
Posted by: jen | May 11, 2006 at 04:33 PM
Faith,
Yes, but I didn't actually defend (or condemn) Adande by using him as an example. I'm just saying, he does what his job specifically entails.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 11, 2006 at 04:35 PM
AK,
Actually I really was kidding. Hehe. Regardless, I agree with lakofan for the most part...but I can see your arguments as well. Personally I gave up on trying to figure out "commentators" and have pretty much taken a "c'est la vie" attitude.
I do find it interesting like Kevin McK said...that whenever Magic is there Barkley is always more "nicer" to Kobe.
Posted by: Faith | May 11, 2006 at 05:16 PM
AK,
I understand that Barkley is paid to do what he does, that doesn’t mean that stating that Kobe quit was right. But like I told you before we live in a society where sensationalist journalism sells more than accurate journalism. Unfortunately the media is turning into sensationalist journalists.
Like you told me I have the option to read an article or not. But there is a difference when people watch television and are watching a game and as soon as it ends, an “analyst” says you know what Kobe quit, his team lost because he was trying to prove a point, that is not a responsible analyst.
We can go back and forward saying that we as an audience have the intelligence to take in what we believe it’s accurate and what we don’t. But see that’s not true, children watch those shows, they are to young to understand that Barkley’s comment is plain and simple his opinion, they take it as true, as he must know he’s a basketball player. The “haters” are looking for every little thing to bash Kobe to no end, like Greg Anthony said those comments are BS and it’s true plain and simple. What can you tell me about Greg Anthony? He is a former player, isn’t he? He is an analyst, isn’t he? Greg knows the power he has being able to give his opinion on TV or in an article, so he thinks before he says something; Charles doesn’t.
If for example one day Greg says something about Kobe that is taken as a “hate” comment I wouldn’t label it as a hate comment because I know his background work and I know he thinks before he writes or makes a comment on TV. I cannot say that about Barkley, Barkley just talks because he has a mouth and an outlet to say what he thinks. I really don’t care if Barkley says Kobe is this and that sometimes he amuses me, but this time he questioned Kobe’s integrate as a player, he questioned Kobe’s ethics and he cannot do that, that’s just wrong.
That is why I think Kobe text messaged him, because Kobe knows fans, kids and the general public will listen to that and what impression will they have of Kobe?(I’m talking about professional career, not him as a private person or personal life, that’s separate.) Kobe works hard all year and for Barkley to question his work ethic is outrages.
Like Kobe said, the press always looks for something that’s not there. He and Phil said it, they were not going to win by Kobe scoring 50, but it seems like the media doesn’t get that. The media would rather write N number of articles explaining Kobe’s agenda.
You can tell me that is up to us as the audience to turn it off, not read it, but you know that in today’s society everything transcends and even if we don’t want to hear it is there. And children grow up hating athletes because oh well he (any media member with the power to be heard) said this person did this or that, so he must be a bad player.
I ask you this, How far are the journalists willing to go to sell more magazines, to be on TV as analysts, to be recognized for creating controversies? Can we as fans ever enjoy a sport for the joy of it without all this nonsense? If you had a chance to make it big, would you compromise your work ethic to climb the latter?
Unfortunately I think we all compromise something to accomplish a goal, but the media has a power that none of us have, the power to sometimes destroy careers.
Posted by: lakofan | May 11, 2006 at 05:47 PM
AK,
Look at Kwame, channel 7 jumped to the idea wow this is news lets report it, lets see how far we can take this story before any other channel reports it. And what did they do? They reported something that was not even accurate. They reported that the incident occurred on Sunday when it wasn't true. But hey lets report exclusive news concerning a Lakers player that’s in the playoffs, with a player like Kobe.
Did that ruin in some way the Lakers chances for game 5 and beyond? In my opinion it did. And they can't take it back. What has happened since that day? Nothing at all. Channel 7 was the first to report it and we know that any channel or journalist would of broke the news if they had the chance.
The media is becoming reckless in the things they report and Kwame’s case is just another example of how far the media is becoming a tabloid.
Posted by: lakofan | May 11, 2006 at 06:27 PM
Lakofan,
Barkley's statements are only sensationalistic if they're not what he actually believes, but he's putting it out there simply to grab attention. If it's what he thinks and he can provide reasons for thinking it, it's within Barkley's rights to say as opinion, even if he's actually incorrect. That's not irresponsible, in my opinion.
And remember, Barkley also had a chance to retract the comments after he and Kobe texted each other. He chose not to, even while saying that he admired Kobe for confronting. Does that mean Barkley's opinion is more valid? Not necessarily. I, for one, don't agree with him. But it does perhaps mean that he's given this more thought that you're giving him credit for. He did have the entire second half to watch the game and think about it.
I also don't think that the media has a responsibility to hold back a genuine opinion of a player (regardless of whether the opinion is right or wrong) simply because it could affect how a kid sees the player. Their job is equally for adults, who have the ability to think at a more complicated level. If kids hear an analyst talk badly about Kobe, they can talk about with their parents about it. But outside of not saying lies that he KNOWS are lies, Barkley has no obligation to hold his tongue for their sake.
Unless you think that Barkley is saying what he knows isn't true simply for the sake of raising controversy, nothing he's doing defies any journalistic integrity. You may think his opinions are pure crap, but they're not out of bounds. Just incorrect, perhaps.
Again, I'm really enjoying the debate.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 11, 2006 at 06:30 PM
Lakofan,
I already agreed with you that sensationalist journalism is out of control. I think the LAPD/ABC may have announced Kwame's situation innappropriately, too. But I don't think that example and Barkley are really comparable. The former potentially creates a sensation over something that may turn out to be nothing. The latter is simply an opinion that, in Barkley's mind, is valid and is certainly topical. There's a big difference.
AK
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 11, 2006 at 06:36 PM
AK,
I've been out of town. What's going on with Kwame and the investigation?
Personally, I believe the investigation is what lost the Phoenix series. After the investigation hit the media, the Lakers didn't seem like the same team we saw during the first four games.
GO LAKERS!
Posted by: Jon Kavulic | May 11, 2006 at 06:38 PM
Jon,
To my knowledge, not much had happened and he still hasn't been interviewed. I take this as a good sign of it eventually going away.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | May 11, 2006 at 06:45 PM