Extra! Extra! (5.9)

I'm ready and excited for next season. I think if we can pull off favorable seeding in the playoffs, then a trip to the finals wouldn't be too far away.

Lakers have a problem when it comes to signing free agents, no one wants to join a team with a psychopath as the designated go to star.

Yeah Tommy, it must suck to want to come to a team that has the most games on national TV, has the biggest opportunity for endorsements, and has the most talented player in the game who can single handedly guarantee a trip to the playoffs. Even if Kobe was a psychopath (which obviously he isn't) players want to be on the Lakers, it's the most respected and storied franchise in the NBA hands down. The problem is money - our owner happens to have been at this for a while and he knows when to spend money and when to skimp - right now we're in a "skimp" phase because that giant oaf in Miami screwed us over big-time. However getting back to the playoffs after only one year after 'The Greed of Shaq' put us in the lottery is pretty impressive, especially considering the roster we had - the Lakers will have no problems attracting free agents this summer, but we'll only be able to sign the ones who are willing to play here for a little less than they might make elsewhere because of the limitations J.Buss has put on the payroll for the next couple of years.

I think as good Laker fans, we can look on the bright side of the Lakers getting eliminated in the first round. Laker management will be forced to add more pieces to this team if they want to improve on this year's early exit from the playoffs. Had the Lakers made it to the second round or even the conference finals, management wouldn't have done a thing to improve the team for next year, and we all know this team in not capable of winning a championship as it is right now. Short term, obviously it hurts to see the Lakers meltdown in Games 6 and 7. Long term, however, this will probably have been for the best. Lets go Lakers!

Tommy,

"Lakers have a problem when it comes to signing free agents, no one wants to join a team with a psychopath as the designated go to star."

Yeah, and my friend woke up in a tub of ice with his kidneys missing, and a note to call 911.

Also, I am the assistant to the Prime Minister of Nigeria, and I need your help in transferring some money out of the country.

All of the above are urban legends.

lakers have never had a problem signing free agents and you're opinion of kobe would only matter if you had some basketball talent worthy of the nba. most nba players sans raja bell believe kobe is the best all around player in the game right now. they also know phil is one of the best coaches and buss an elite owner.

kids grow up dreaming of wearing the purple and gold, and expect the summer of 2007 when our window opens to attract free agents like flies to honey.

Kwame sucks. You can't count him as one of the main pieces.It is going to be another lost season. Book it.

I think this playoff series made Kobe a lot more likeable as far as free agents go. When asked who his favorite teammate was, the one he got along with the best, Sasha Vujacic answered Kobe Bryant.

I like that OC Register article. Is it November yet? 20/9/7 for Lamar would be huge. 15 and 10 for Kwame would be great also. I'm glad Phil is trying to talk Mihm into playing the wing, and I'm glad that the players know what to work on during the off season.

The lakers can buy tickets to the finals every year they want to go. Phoenix in 07.

TRADE KOBE!!!

I really have never seen the fascination with Kobe Bryant as the leader of a team. Yes of course he is a terrific scorer, with tremedous athletic ability. However Kobe lacks the emotional maturity to be a team leader. Smush Parker did not have a good game after Kobe was yelling in his ear after the game 4 upset of the Phoenix Suns. Kobe was yelling in Smush Parkers ear like some High School player. Kobe needed to ACT like he's been there before, there is no need for fist pumping after making a buzzer beater shot in the FIRST QUARTER of a game, act like you BEEN THERE before!!!!!!!

No top tier free agent with an upside to their career will want to sign with the Lakers. With Kobe taking ALL the shots, that would limit the players future contract negotiations and diminish their future value, ie;(see)Lamar Odom.

After the past two seasons it should be quite evident who the actual trouble maker was on the Laker team during the Shaq era. The spats with Shaq during his Laker tenure coupled along in succession with occuring spats with other Laker teammates as well as opponents to name a few; Karl Malone, Chuckie Atkins, Caron Butler, Sasha whom he shoved on national TV and Lamar Odom. Opponents include Mike Miller whom he elbowed in the throat as well as Raja Bell who is getting the last laugh.

Kobe has not matured to a level to actually be a leader who makes himself and his teammates better. This season was one in which Phil Jackson was in a no-win situation in reining Kobe into following the offense. Kobe just went out and did what he wanted to do, and that was to win a scoring title for himself. Had Phil chastised Kobe, then the old wounds from the book would have been opened and Kobe would have tanked the season away, so Phil had to give Kobe free rein. My feeling is that it will not be the same next season, you can take that to the bank.

Trade Kobe while he has value now,...get LeBron James in a Lakers uniform. James seems to have more emotional maturity than Kobe and will be a great talent in the future.

Steven,

How about we trade YOU and keep Kobe!

I loved the story about Phil giving Kwame a sheet of paper with "15 & 10" on it!!! It's obvious that we're keeping just about everybody so let's gear up for another exciting season next year!! I hope that Kwame plays summer league ball so he can stay conditioned in the nuances of the Triangle. Also it will help him build chemistry with Sasha & Ronny!!

The Laker brass seems to want to build a team from the inside rather than superstar grabbing & I'm cool with that! My hope is that they involve Kareem even more in the development of their big man to the point that he should be ON THE BENCH NEXT YEAR & NOT SIITING IN THE STANDS!!!

Also I'd like to see us bring in Ron Harper or bring back Jim Cleamons as an ssistant to aid in the maturation of our young guards Sasha & Smush (if he stays). I've never been a big B. Shaw fan & if Smush's disappearing act in the playoffs is any indication, then maybe we could upgrade in the assistant coach department.

I'm a really big fan of Mike James, hope Mitch can coax him into joining us. He's a good spot up shooter, solid defender, and he has leadership skills & playoff experience! I think he'd be the perfect upgrade at the point.

Trade Steven!

I am fed up with all of the negative Kobe talk. You are spineless, ignorant and utterly hypocritical if you are criticizing Kobe Bryant or any of the Lakers at this time.

One rebound....1.....separated Kobe Bryant and the other Lakers from reaching the second round of the playoffs after beating the team thought most dangerous to them. One rebound separated the Lakers from taking a Weak" cast (based on "public opinion"), a selfish, star-focused, ego-maniac, and a money driven, girlfriend pleasing coach, from doing something NEVER thought to be possible at the beginning of training camp this season. One rebound separated Kobe Bryant, thought to be the plague a year ago.....and again right now, from doing the ONE thing everyone has criticized him for NOT being able to do in his whole career thus far.....Lead a team successfully IN the post season while making THEM better.

What would all of you hypocrits have said IF Tim Thomas had missed that shot? What would you have said, if Lamar had gotten to the rebound before the ball ended up in Tim Thomas' possession?

Instead, Lamar was unable to capture the rebound, Tim Thomas was able to maneuver along the 3 point line making the shot, and the Lakers lost in overtime. The game was still quite possibly in hand, when Kobe received the inbound pass and missed the game winning shot. WHAT IF THE SHOT GOES IN?

I now understand how Sacramento felt when Robert Horry hit that Game 4 shot. I now know how Portland felt after coughing up a 15 point lead with roughly 10 minutes to go in Game 7. Quite possibly, a slight change of events could have led to the Lakers not winning those 3 championships, and Portland and Sacramento instead winning a couple of their own. It demonstrates to us the fact that there are times when the breaks go your way....and times when they don't.

However, to use those breaks as reasons to criticize 1 player unmercilessly is dead wrong. THIS IS THE SAME KOBE BRYANT THAT HELPED SHAQUILLE O'NEAL WIN THOSE 3 TITLES. Do you think they could have won ANY of those without Kobe? While Shaq was "playing into shape" each of those following 2 championship seasons....what was Kobe doing? That's right, he was keeping things together. While Shaq was on the bench at the end of close games in the post season because he couldn't hit freethrows....who was finishing off the opposing teams? You act as if those 3 championships were 20 years ago and this is not the SAME Kobe Bryant.

It has been stated time and again that he is criticized no matter what he does. I totally agree with that and have reached the conclusion that it is merely hatred. You hate Kobe because you first, don't understand him. People hated and still do to some exent different races because they really don't understand them and because they are different. You'd rather raise up a young gun like LeBron James, than give the proper respect to a tested gun like Kobe Bryant. EVERYTHING he does is put under a microscope. When he didn't shoot much in Game 1 and the team lost he was criticized. He shot the same amount in Games 2-4, and instead of receiving praise for doing it right....some of you actually discredited him and said the others were just playing up to potential. However, at the end of it all, it is once again about Kobe NOT doing something that YOU think he should. Who made you gods to thik that you have the authority to say what is right or wrong? Why do you choose to only condemn 1 player, when there are hundreds that deserve more criticism?

I am a Laker fan and believe as I have since training camp....that the best is yet to come. WHEN Kobe, Phil, Lamar, Kwame and Bynum are hoisting up that championship banner in a couple years.......that will be enough satisfaction for me.

Smush Parker did not have a good game after Kobe was yelling in his ear after the game 4 upset of the Phoenix Suns. Kobe was yelling in Smush Parkers ear like some High School player. Kobe needed to ACT like he's been there before, there is no need for fist pumping after making a buzzer beater shot in the FIRST QUARTER of a game, act like you BEEN THERE before!!!!!!!

-Steven, Idiot Blogger

Dummy, Kobe was telling Smush that we wouldn't have gotten to overtime without his gutting out of a bad performance by hitting the three to get us withtin 2 & stealing the ball on Nash in the closing seconds!!! Kobe was screaming in his ear "You're a warrior!!!" That's leadership!!

If you had read any interview after the game or saw the post game press conference you'd know that!! But you were probably sulking that the Lakers won, hater & didn't wabt to relish in the victory.

STEVEN!!!!!!
listen to yourself, you said kobe affected smush by yelling at him. have you ever played sports? this is not even college, this is the pros, it's their job, if you can't play after being yelled at you need to quit the league. the most yelled at player used to be sasha, and he stepped up. show me a team that is losing and not fighting amongst themselves, and i'll show you a bunch of losers. were you really expecting the lakers to win the championship this year? mind you they weren't supposed to make the playoffs. do you remember when we were praying for teams ahead of the lakers to lose, so they can have the 8th spot?

Steven,

Kobe's not the only player or leader of a team who yells at his teammates. Jordan used to do it, Dirk does it, and I'm sure you saw Wade and Payton in each others ears in their series.

Okay, so let me get this straight...

You'd rather have LeBron and the dumb faces he makes after EVERY dunk over Kobe pumping his fist after a shot?

FYI...Steven's a Hater!!! To quote the real MVP "Do I know this guy? Who is this guy?"

JJ,

Great post!! I've grown so tired of trying to defend Kobe because you know its an exercise in futility!! But I applaud you blog brother for speaking the truth!!! Preach!!! Church!!!

Lamar Odom 20, 9, and 6.
Kwame Brown 15 and 10 with a promise to work on his outside shooting just in case he and Mihm have to play together.
Mihm on the wing?

Well, if all that occurs I guess it really wouldn't matter who coaches the team next year. I just have to wonder about the progress of Bynum and Turiaf. Where does this leave Smush Parker.

I know I was tough on Phil Jackson over the last 2 or 3 days. What's done is done. Just because he says that he never thought this was a Championship year doesn't mean isn't suppose to coach like it is. He deserves a little heat for blowing a 3-1 series lead without making any adjustments. But in my mind his biggest sin was not retaliating for the clothesline on Bryant...maybe I'm being a little hard but for that he needs to be shown the door.

I know PJ's marketability is pretty good, but my point is that winning cures all. If the Lakers play defense from the beginning of the year next season, we'll have a great year. We will be winning with the core players we have now, and that is with or without PJ.

Winning cures all, by that I mean that the fans will quickly forget PJ if we win without him. But losing...someone has to answer for that. In my mind blowing a 3-1 lead against Phoenix for not making adjustments, that is PJ burden to bare. And if PJ is not held accountable by any of the sports reports from the Los Angeles Times or the local news outlets, KCAL 9, ABC, or CBS, then I'll do it myself!

mike

Mitch,

I mentioned Mike James befre the trade deadline and people on here laughed at me. I really think that he is a solid addition and would helpn in a couple of areas. The concern is over his attitude in that he thinks that he's the man. However, if the Lakers could bring him in early eanough...He and Kobe could play together during the summer and build some team unity. He has the ability to bring a lot to this team because of his point guard skills and defense. You give the Lakers a strong point guard and they would have won this series. Think about it....Nash spearheaded his team's offensive attack. You effectively slow him down with strong defense and solid offense, and they are wiped out.

Why do you think that the Lakers killed him when he was in Dallas? Between Ron Harper, Brian Shaw and Derek Fisher, they sat on Nash every time they played Dallas, and the Mavs went running back home. The same could happen again with the right point guard.

To Steven,

Lebron James is the most selfish player i have ever seen in the NBA. he plays during the whole time by himself. The only problem with Kobe is Medias, they are really trying not to promote him. they always write wierd things about Kobe just to get reader's attention, because majority of readers would like to read about Kobe. To me Lebron james is still on the developing stage.And you Steve need to ge to developing blogs in order to write in this blog.

Go lakers

this is my first visit to the blog since the lakers lost cause i knew it would be full of Kobe sucks comments and article. However i felt i had to make this contribution "The sports guy wrote a column where he said before the Smush Parker steal in Game 4 Kobe pulled him aside after the Phil had finished talking to themin the huddle and yelled at Smush i think it was something like 'you steal the ball' three times while poking him in the chest. We all no what happened after that say maybe we need to give the guy more credit for his leadership ability.

If Ronny really does work out with Kobe over the summer, its going to put him on the fast track to becoming a legit player for us next season. I really liked his aggression, atittude, and activity on the court when he did get some burn!!

In other news,

What happened to the Clippers last night? Giving up 130 pts. to the Suns?! That's inexcusable!! There's no D in the CLIPPERS!!!

To quote Mark Jackson "You're better than that!"

GO JJ!!

Steven- were you not hugged enough as a kid?

JJ,

Good to know we're on the same page Blog Brother! I've heard Speedy Claxton mentioned a lot but I just think James would be better from a defense & leadership standpoint. I don't mind him coming in with a little swagger cause I think it will give us a little more nastiness in practice & in games!

Those were the intangibles that Harp & D. Fish brought and if we can talk him in to taking the 5mil. for the season, I think it would be the below the radar aquicistion that we'll be celebrating next season.

During the 81 game, he was the ONLY Raptor that seemed to want to fight back. I believe he had 30+ on Smush that night!

Personally, I'll be rooting for the Suns to win the NBA finals now. If they win it all after the Lakers took them to seven, that will change a lot of opinions.

It's amazing how everyone wants to throw Phil and Kobe under the bus after this loss. The Lakers were ONE rebound away from facing the Clippers. This team OVERACHEIVED in winning 45 games and pushing PHX to the limit.

What we need to be talking about is what's going to happen this offseason. Will Kwame Brown commit to improving his game and average a double-double. Will possibly playing together in the world championships this summer help the growing two-man game between Lamar and Kobe. How are Baby Bynum and Turiaf going to improve as the season goes on. Will the PG issue be addressed this offseason.

This is what we need to be worrying about. Firing Phil or trading Kobe will only set the team back further.

Tommy, this Brian Cook quote is just for you:

"Kobe was a lot more personable for us this year, was great as a leader," teammate Brian Cook said. "A lot of people did a lot of growing up. Everybody got along from the standpoint of off the court -- just a great group of guys."

Personally, I think we need help at the point guard position more than anywhere else. Yeah, Smush and Sasha are still young, but we need a solid defending point guard in his prime to come in for a couple of years while Smush and Sasha are learning.

More than anything else though, and I will continue to harp on this, we need some freaking defense!

Mike T.

You really need a hug, man!! If I didn't know any better you sound like your walkin' the streets of your neighborhood in pajamas, mumbling "Phil must go!!"

You've been writing a variation of the same post for THREE DAYS NOW!!!

We lost! Give the Suns credit & move on with the rest of us in to off season moves mode!!!

I read the stuff going on between you & Xodus & you're quite dillusional if you think Mitch walks into his office every moning & logs on to the Blog!! Faith, talk to your boy!!!

KOBE BRYANT FOR KEVIN GARNETT?

...Thoughts, queries, wax poetics.

Laker Fans

Is it a coincidence that during the beginning of the series with the Suns that Phil Jackson was being hailed as a genius because of his gameplan and that Kobe "bought" into the plan......but when the Sun's "adjusted" to Phil's plan and Kobe continued to follow it all the blame goes to Kobe?

Where is Phil Jackson's responsibility in all this and why does the media give him a free ride? Phil never makes a definitive statement about anything especially when it absolves Kobe Bryant.

One question from the increasingly stupid media could solve this issue with Kobe......that question should be directed at Phil Jackson in this manner......Phil,WHAT WERE YOUR INSTRUCTIONS TO THE TEAM AT HALFTIME AND DID KOBE FOLLOW THOSE INSTRUCTIONS! THAT'S IT!

If Phil were a man he would stand up for his players and ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY for his coaching decisions juxtaposed to answering things in an opaque and obtuse manner.

During the press conference following game 7 Phil answered the question of why Kobe took so few shots by saying "Kobe was trying to get other guys involved because the only way we could come back was to have everyone involved".....that would have been a good answer if he would have ended it there but he continued "but I leave it up to Kobe's judgement whether or not to take over a game" WHAT?

The last statement shifts the responsibility over to Kobe if he wants to "take over a game". Phil is very shrewd in his responses to the media because he doesn't want to be scutinized and held to any responsibility when the team fails.....and it must work because notice everyone in the media including this blog is talking about Kobe Bryant virtually nobody is speaking of Phil Jackson.....is this a coincidence?

One more thing does anyone know how many shots LeBron James took in the second half of the blowout loss to Detroit?

You had to think for a minute didn't you? The reason you don't know is because you haven't been programmed to know that.......by the way he took three shots.

Steven???? Steve Nash in disguise???

Go home to the desert. We love our Lakers and just wait becos when we come back, we will rule for a couple of years!!! That is Jerry Buss at the helm and having the two of the best in NBA (Phil and Kobe), he will do what is right.

Mitch, dude, props for one of the funniest posts on this blog I've seen in a long while.

Watching Nash....

I objectively watched Nash play last night against the Clippers and thought to myself..."is this guy really the MVP of the league?" Shouldn't the MVP be able to play defense? Steve Nash is an offensive player - period. I think this aware should go to the best all-around player in the league... And to put Nash into the company of multiple MVP winners is just plain wrong.....

Lakers needs to find a guard, who can shoot the ball, when teams double team Odom and slow down Kobe, we need better scouting. The New Jersey Nets, they lost Martin, and they trade for Vince Carter, look at their team now, you have to give NJ organization credit. Some people said, Lakers can't trade when they still are good team, that's wrong, San Antonio still can trade with Sacramento to get Turkoglu, and after one season, they trade him to Orlando. Lakers should create some moves, don't say we don't have money left. When Lakers sweept San Antonio, San Antonio lets old players gone, they draft Tony Parker, and sign Bowen, later they draft Manubli. Teams always make mistakes, but some gets better because they are not affraid to fix their mistakes.

Mike T,

I'm jumping off your phil must go bandwagon, let it go son, every single laker shares some blame in blowing this 3-1 lead just as they share the glory for getting it in the 1st place. You heard the organization we ain't looking for a hired gun to come in and change this, we're gonna learn from this loss and be back with a vengance.

Looking to forward to seeing a sneak peak of 06/07 season when kobe and lamar play for team usa. Wonder if Kobe'll wear number #24 then.

People gave Phil too much credit. In my opinion, Phil is good defensive coach, not a good offensive coach. Triangle offense is not the only way to win championship, the botom line is who can make the good shot? The zen master said...Lakers and Phoenix Sun have some pussy cats on each team, it turns out, Lakers play like cats, and Phoenix Suns play like wolfs, the zen master failed this time.

Some of you just don't want to get it. How many more seasons should it take before you realize that Kobe will not bring the Lakers another title. Kobe is better served as a #2 second scoring option, that way he can focus on defense and scoring off turnovers. With Kobe being the focal point of the Laker offense the other players can not get involved with him shooting 25-35 times it disrupts the flow and rhythm of his teammates.

NBA players don't play the game for FREE. So with that being the case, why would a top tier Free Agent even want to come to the Lakers with Kobe taking 25-35 shots while their stats diminish as well as their ability to negotiate top dollar on future contracts? Do you think Lamar Odom can get anything when his contract is up with the Lakers?

Trade Kobe while he has value, get a Lebron James. This Kobe Bryant lead Laker team is worst to watch and more unpredictable than the Laker teams of the Cedric Cebalos days.

I've seen a few Bryant for Garnett posts and here's my view on it:

If we trade Kobe for KG, we (the Lakers) won't reach the playoffs next year. Minessota will! It's that simple. KG would make a great addition to our team, but NOT as a replacement for No. 8 (Umm.. I mean No. 24).

One more thing,

Steven, you've been traded to the Phoenix Blog. Go there and post all you want.

That's right Steevie! None of us get it except for you. How can the whole world be so deluded so as not to see what a great mind you are?

Let us know when you're released from the institution.

If we can trade Kobe for LeBron James, it is wonderful, i like the way LeBron pass the ball to his teammates, but i guess it depends on LeBron. Kobe won so many battles, this year it seems he lost his steps, maybe after he got scoring leader title, he is tired at the end of the season. The last shot Kobe took on game 6 again Phoenix, it shows to me, he still doesn't know how to win. Kobe when answer the press about Raja Bell, Kobe should use words better than that because he is leader.

JJ,

Amen, brother.

Steven,

You're an idiot. Will you be back here when they do win that Championship in a year or two?

Tito,

Didn't the triangle offense win 9 championships in the last, what, 15 years, or something like that?

Mike T,

Phil and Mitch are on the same page. Sorry, but your lame duck theory is, well, lame.

JF

THE SHOT IN GAME 6 WAS BLOCKED!!! GET OVER IT!!!!

Tom,
I watched the Nets/Heat game before watching parts of the Clippers/Suns game, and all I thought about was how bad I felt for Jason Kidd. He took his team to the finals two years in a row! Nash couldn't get them there last year and won't this year either.

Like you said, how can someone who can't play defense get MVP two years in a row? And Nash isn't even the point guard in the league. I think it's a toss up between Jason Kidd or Billups.

Sorry, I probably sound like a hater. Oh well! I just think Nash is overrated.

" Do you think Lamar Odom can get anything when his contract is up with the Lakers?"

Steven, you're an idiot. Lamar just majorly outplayed All-star Shawn Marion in 6 out of 7 games, he's one year younger than Shawn and makes just a little less money - makes Marion look like the one over-paid don't you think? Lamar has several years left on his contract, but when he's a free agent in 2009 if he's still putting up the numbers he did in the 2nd half of the season and the playoffs this year, you can bet he'll still be making 8 figures easy.

As for the rest of your 'argument' - the evidence is stacked heavily against you making it pretty clear you speaking out of your arse - Kobe's teammates all loved him this year because he made them better - some (like Smush and Kwame) had career years and are now legitmate NBA players, and almost everyone on the team increased their stats over last season, so where you're getting "dimished stats" is beyond me. The numbers don't lie, why not try looking at them for yourself before making obviously false statements? The interviews don't lie either, all the players have said throughout the season that they love playing with Kobe, and if you followed the playoffs at all you'd know why Kobe took so many shots during the regular season, but you seem to be steeped in denial (and I don't mean the river in Egypt) so I don't expect any of the actual facts would matter to you no matter how many of them we post up here.

Tivo,

Grammar is your friend. You're a classic example for why dropping out of school is NOT a good idea.

Kobe had two choices at the end of game 6:
1. Pass to Smush, who was open, but had missed almost every shot for the previous two games.
2. Take the shot himself.

Kobe was super hot, having already scored close to fifty points, and he chose the latter. It was the CORRECT decision. Kobe found his shot. It was the type of shot Kobe, but now one else in the league, can make close to 50% of the time. In this case, he missed. However, missing doesn't change the fact that Kobe made the RIGHT decision.

Steven,

Your statement "This Kobe Bryant lead Laker team is worst to watch and more unpredictable than the Laker teams of the Cedric Cebalos days."

You're ignorance or rather your Kobe bias is showing. The Lakers were the biggest draw in attendance in the entire NBA for the season. And by most accounts excluding yours, the Lakers/Suns series was the best and most watched series in the first round.

Mike, honey...you know I almost always agree with your points...and some of these I do. I do think he should have made adjustments, I've been calling for since game 4...and he didn't. I do think he should have protected, done something for the clotheslining, outside of "you deserve it" and he didn't. I do think that his comments at times sound more anti-Kobe when as his coach he should be praising (though in this case...Money said something in the line of he does praise, and protect Kobe...the problem is the media doesn't "replay" those comments. Think back to the records...yes he said that he prefers to not have to win that way...but left replayed...was his comments that at present it's how they have to win. I never once heard him say, he needs to stop shooting, it's impeding our progress, I have heard him say, it's how we have to play right now, I trust his judgement---I'm okay with that, just wished they'd play it instead of trying to start controversies)

But I digress, my point is, if this was 2004...I would so be in the front office calling for Phil's firing, or resignment as it were. Why? Because I think a coach is only as effective until he loses control of his team. In 2004 he lost control of the team both offensively and defensively (no one person to blame, just happened). This year, we have a fairly new team, that really needs to be molded into defensive-minded, solid players. Above all, if you ignore the publicity that is the triangle offense, Phil is a great defensive coach (that is how you win championships) and this season, he failed in his quest to mold them into defensive players. I don't dispute that we were way better as a defense than last year...but we could have been better (more consistent) and yes maybe the players have more to do with it than not. The point is, it's still so early...I'm just not ready to throw the towel on Phil (Plus I like it that Phil is here, and Shaq is in Miami mad as hornets, and jealous as a baby that he's not here too haha).---sorry, just not yet ;-)

In conclusion, I said days ago that losses always are in the shoulders of the leader and the coach. I think Phil and Kobe both took responsibility as fitting, and are striving to move on. To bring this YOUNG team back, to boost their fragile and currently down spirits...that's what we should focus on and look forward to. (And yes, you said what you said...but since I didn't address it yesterday...I thought I'd do it today ;-) Bottomline, let's talk about the future...what are the chances Speedy Claxton signs here?

P.S. sorry for the long post everyone.

Mitch, dude, props for one of the funniest posts on this blog I've seen in a long while.

Posted by: Jimbo | May 09, 2006 at 12:17 PM

Thanks Jimbo! But were you laughin at my perception of Mike T. OR my wanting to get Mike James!! Ha ha!!

Instead of factoring in future hall of famers to the roster for next year, I want to focus on what the Lakers can do in the draft to improve this squad. I believe they have the 26th pick of the first round. I doubt he will fall this far, but JJ Redick would be perfect for this team. Redick maybe available between the 12-17th picks, and he would give the Lakers something the mid 90's Bulls always had, that spot-up 3 point shooter who Kobe can always kick it out to.

Instead of trading Kobe for anyone, why not put pieces around him to make him and them better. Do not put other all-stars with him, this is the Team USA problem.

I realize this is not a great defensive team and Reddick in no way helps them, but the problem all year long was guys standing around shooting perimeter shots off the side of the rim.

And besides the best defense is a good offense right?

Nyla,

I realize Steve Nash isn't the most popular player on this board, but he is better than Jason Kidd, yes the same Jason Kidd who shot 40% this year, (which was actually better than the last 2 years). I know he led his teams to the finals from the Eastern Conference, which at the time might have been the worst in NBA history.

Kobe is better than Nash, but Nash is better than Kidd.

Mike,

P.P.S. I hope you won't stop liking me cause I disagree with you...lol...just kidding...lol

possibilities?

i met our GM not to long ago at a college game. he was standing alone waiting for someone so i approached him and started a conversation...he was geniunely friendly and engaging. i concluded that he's a good guy, level headed with clear goals in mind. but what was visible was the weight of burden that he carries with his job..... probably one of the toughest jobs in L.A.

having your actions compared to jerry west is unfair and likely debilitating. damage control is probably a fair summary of his work over the past two to three years. our GM needs a break....and i don't mean vacation. it's time for another "monster" acquisition.

what are the possibilities? is it too much to fantasize about seeing KG in purple and gold? grabbing rebounds, blocking shots, and finishing off an assist from KOBE with authority. this is the time for us to dream and scheme.

Reddick is just another Mike Penberthy who will get a bigger contract.
I'd rather trade D. George (sign & trade) and C. Mihm for PJ Brown.

Tim,

That's okay, we can disagree. I still think Kidd is a better all around player than Nash.

JJ Redick is pretty much like Penberthy except one went to Duke broke the NCAA all-time 3 pointers made record, was a 2 time all-american and Mike Penberthy went to The Master's college....other than that, same guy.

Great post Faith! Show your man the light! lol

Reddick is too SLOW to play NBA defense.

there has been a lot of talk that we blew the series, i think it was the opposite. despite our hate for the suns, they really are a good team. besides kobe, the suns were more talented than us, and when they are on, they are on! our game plan almost worked, which would have made to for the the greatest upset of all time, if we would have won the series. but we didn't but we have the blueprint for sucess within the upcoming years. we just have to piece it together, and hopefully guys work hard in the off season.

on another note, i really don't feel kobe changing his number. am i the only one? can we start a petition for keep #8?

also, man, there is a lot of kobe hatin' going on in the media and blogs; its plain ridiculous! he has officially reached barry bonds, michael jackson and o.j. simpson status. heck the president has a higher approval rating than kobe bean; and his actions affects everyone's life.

another thing, clips/suns: is it me or was our game plan better than what the clips were trying to do the other night?

rdlee,

please read the post all the way through, i already conceded that reddick is not a good defender, but I don't remember John Paxson or Steve Kerr being any worse than what JJ Reddick will be.

I realize Reddick will probably never be a perenial all-star but that doesnt mean he can help this team win 5-7 more games next season.

I found this last night, and thought it was very interesting regarding everyone's mvp!?

Steve Nash must be taking lessons from David Copperfield. Because Nash winning the MVP this year is like Copperfield dating Claudia Schiffer.

It’s slight of hand and trickery—I just don’t see how Nash became a two-time MVP. I can’t help but feel like we’ve been duped as NBA fans.

Because Steve Nash as a two-time MVP is a farce.

This isn’t about Kobe, LeBron and Dirk anymore and if they should have won. It isn’t about personal attacks or who’s a better person. It isn’t about the merit of their seasons, what makes a team better, how much individual stats hold against team success, etc.

This is about the absurd notion forming that Steve Nash is one of, if not the best, point guards ever.

And if you don’t think that’s what’s happening, you need to realize that by Nash winning his second MVP Award, he just joined Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Moses Malone, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Tim Duncan as the only players to have won more than one MVP.

Nash has somehow done this without leading his team in scoring or being a game-altering threat to take over in the 4th quarter. He’s not even a lock to take the last shot in a tight game. Plus, he looks like Kelly Leak from the original Bad News Bears.

The strange thing is I like Steve Nash. I think he’s done wonders to change the pace and face of the NBA the past few seasons, reverting teams back to the 1980’s and early 90’s style of fast-tempo basketball. It’s what the NBA needed.

But Nash is no better than a handful of other NBA point guards who have been good, impressive and great—but never got to that level.

In a comparison provided by the good people at Basketball Reference.com, Nash is in a select company of solid and dependable point guards—but hardly the best ever. In fact, according to the website, Nash has only slightly better than a fifty percent chance to make the Hall of Fame. No other MVP has averaged fewer points since Wes Unseld in 1969. Yet he also became the only other point guard beside Magic Johnson to win back-to-back MVP’s.

Look at this group of point guards and their best seasons:

Steve Nash
2005: 15.5 points, 11.5 assists, 3.3 rebounds per game. He led the league in assists and shot 88.7% from the foul line.
2006: 18 points, 10.5 assists, 4.2 rebounds. He shot 92% from the free throw line and 43% from three point range, and led the league in assists.

John Stockton
1990: 17.2 points, 14.5 assists, 2.7 steals, 2.6 rebounds per game. Stockton led the NBA in assists from 1988-1996—but was never MVP, even though the Jazz routinely won and appeared in the playoffs. In ’90,

Kevin Johnson
1990: 23.9 points, 12.2 assists, 3.9 rebounds per game. Johnson shot 50% from the field that season. He routinely averaged a double-double in points and assists, basically from 1989-1996.

During that 1990 season, Johnson didn’t even get a vote for MVP; Stockton finished 9th to Magic Johnson. Nash is basically doing exactly what all point guards used to do—score and distribute. Heck, on occasion, some of them would even play defense.

The MLB A.L. MVP debate last year focused on the fact that David Ortiz was merely a hitter, while A-Rod played both parts of the game. While its obvious basketball and baseball are different sports; we also apparently have different basic criteria for MVP’s in general, because Nash doesn’t play any defense. Had Smush Parker not gone 7-37 over the last four games of the Lakers-Suns series, a national audience might have seen that Nash couldn’t guard a slow motion Ace Ventura when he’s pretending to play football at the asylum.

Here were the other candidates for MVP this season, who share similarities with MVP’s of the past:

Kobe Bryant, 2006: 35.4 points, 4.5 assists, 5.1 rebounds, 1.8 steals. Bryant won the scoring title.

Allen Iverson, 2001: 31.1 points, 4.6 assists, 3.8 rebounds, 2.5 steals per game. Iverson won the scoring title.

LeBron James, 2006: 31.4 points, 6.6 assists, 7.0 rebounds, 1.6 steals per game.

Michael Jordan, 1992: 30.1 points, 6.1 assists, 6.4 rebounds, 2.3 steals per game.

Obviously, throwing out all these stats isn’t going to change the outcome, and doesn’t prove or disprove anything.

But I can’t shake it—Nash is a current day John Stockton, Kevin Johnson, Isiah Thomas or Tim Hardaway who just joined a list of nine of the greatest players in NBA history.

The same guy who, at times during Phoenix’s Game 7 win over the Lakers Saturday, wasn’t even the most valuable guard on his own team, with Leandro Barbosa making us question why Nash had such a hard time earlier in the series. The same guy who has a two year scoring average of 16.7 points and plays some of the worst defense in the league. The same guy who is now in the same breath as Jordan, Bird and Magic.

I just don’t see it—but maybe you can.

The Lakers definitely need a shooter but i'm not sold on Redick as an NBA player. He's an insane shooter, but you'd have to run him off of screens all the time since he can't really get his shot off against NBA players. Also his D would be horrendous against NBA two guards.

With that said, he'll probably do in the top 15 any way and the Lakers won't even have to worry about him anyway.

Taurus,

In that whole rambling analysis, I found the most useful information to be that he does look like Kelly Leak from the original Bad News Bears.

The fact that he is now a 2-time MVP doesn't mean he is in the pantheon of all-time great point guards, it just means that the last 2 years he has been more valuable than anyone else. And how can you compare his year this year to any other year, if that was the case, Wilt's 50 ppg and 20 rpg would always trump all players stats.

The fact of the matter is this team lost Amare Stoudamire, Joe Johnson, Quentin Richardson and Kurt Thomas and yet they still managed to win 54 games.

We can argue all day about comparing him to guys from this year, but to compare him to past players is wrong. Same as it is in baseball, and football.

MVP: Nash or Kobe? Hmmmm...

To all you folks out there who think the award simply go the the best player in the league (Tom), get a clue. Is the award called the BPA (Best Player Award)? No. Most Valuable Player ... to your team. Ok. And so obviously the question is: how successful was the team, how successful were the other players on the team, and how much did this guy contribute to both the success of the team and the success of his teammates.

Take off your biased LA beer goggles, and honestly answer the question. Maybe the league needs to create a new award category called Most Talented Player or Best Player ... but MVP is an award totally out of Kobe's reach by any reasonable standard. The cult of Kobe needs to figure this out, and then shut up and stop bothering the rest of the world with their puerile trash-talking about how Nash doesn't deserve it. If the award was given to the "best" player --oh ye hypocrites-- then Magic Johnson and Larry Bird probably wouldn't have ever won the MVP awards that they did. The Truth. Take it or leave it, but it's still what it is.

Your perception of Mike T. Very vivid mental image.

you go Kevin Mck and JJ...said it best!

MVP Steve Nash

What differientiates Nash from Kobe in the MVP voting, is that Nash made his teammates all have CAREER years. With Amare Stoudemire out and Curt Thomas hurt. All Steve Nash did was lead a group of virtual 'nobodys' to a Conference title. Who ever heard of Boris Diaw, Tim Thomas or Leandro Barbosa?? Nash led them to CAREER seasons.

Nash DISTRIBUTED the ball thus causing his them to have career years and upped their NET VALUE and exposure in the league. That exposure helps for future contract negotiations which equal mo' money for each of those players.

Kobe has not helped Lamar Odom, Kwame 'no-hands' Brown or any other teammate on the Laker team ot have 'career years'. Kobe was just out for Kobe. He wanted a scoring title and got it, and PJ couldn't say too much due to being handicapped because of the book he wrote 2 yrs ago and ALSO because he didn't want Kobe to tank the regular season.

While some are still in DENIAL about Kobe being slighted for the League MVP title, there should be solace regarding while Kobe probably on the south end of Santa Monica pier with fishing gear in hand. There is the group of Shaq, DWade, LeBron James, Steve Nash and of course Raja Bell all having 'bigger fish to fry'

Case Closed!!
OUT

Faith,

;-)

I'll never stop liking you.

I figure PJ blew a 3-1 series lead. He had 3 games to close out. So as a punishment I gave him 3 days of my hell! That was my intention. Do I give a damn what Mitch or anyone else says? HELL NO!

Faith, did you catch the one about putting Mihm on the wing? PJ asking Kwame Brown to get 15-10?

Sounds like Brown is here to stay, no matter if Mihm is healthy or not. I wonder why? I guess PJ knows because obviously these "basketball" fans don't.

mike

Thanks Faith,

I like your post on Phil too, although I really think the defensive inadequecies of this years squad fall more on the players than on Phil's system or adjustments - I think Phil made the adjustments, but it was too much for our guys to handle. I think our youngsters had just started executing on a certain level at the end of the season, and for a few games it was working fantastic, but like Phil and Kobe both said, Phoenix kicked their game into another gear and our young players who had just started to jell weren't able to make another major leap like that so soon. If we're able to keep most of these guys together and gain a little bit of speed(y) in the backcourt, I think we'll be a much better team defensively next year because we'll be able to use the jelling and team basketball from end of this year as the launching point for next season, and when the playoffs come around again we'll be in much better shape to kick things into that next gear needed for a post-season run.

Good post though, I'm glad you're not ready to throw in the towel on Phil, I think he did a fantastic job this year, you gotta give it up to a guy who makes goals and hits them almost every time.

I think if one reads between the lines of Mitch Kupchak's statements concerning the team's future, we can rule out an all out assault to obtain Kevin Garnett. A good defensive point guard is the obvious need because in today's NBA, the perimeter game has been given more leeway by the rule changes. Let's hope that the Laker braintrust can come up with some good players to add to next year's mix.

bronxlakerfan

From what I read: The Lakers are going with the players they have now. Kupchak said he thinks we have a chance at greatness. Nobody is going anywhere. Well, maybe some of the bench players and maybe Smush.

mike

JJ, I guarantee that if Mike james is brought here, he and Kobe will be fighting within two months. Book on it. He doesn't have the right attitude to play here.

Mike,
I did hear that (or read that)...I think Kwame is here to stay...and why not, if the last part of the season (with the exception of the whole police deal)...he's been playing solid. If anything, with opportunity he's certainly raised his stock. Actually...what I got was "they were looking for size," and they've found it, it's Kwame and Turiaf. It's interesting that some (me in particular) put more value to the last 23 games that Kwame has played than the previous 60 games that Chris has played. (That's not a knock on Chris...just something interesting).

Kevin McK,
Good point...it was pointed out to me that defense is more of a repetition, and jelling more than anything...so I'm looking forward to a better defensive team next year as well!

Thanks Faith for setting your boy straight!!! I love how you made your point without having to say "..my point is.." or "...by that I mean..." like long winded Mikey boy!!!

See Mike, even your girl thinks your off!!
Mr. Sportwriter/Coach/Ex All Star Street Baller w/Adrain Dantley low post game/Blogger-who-thinks-he's-smarter-than-the-room/Give PJ Three Days of Hell guy!!!!

Take off the pajamas & take Faith out for a drink!!!

Faith,

Here's a little something to think about. I was wondering during the season why PJ stuck with Mihm so long. It came to me the other day. I remember PJ as a player with the N.Y Knicks. He was a back-up power forward/center during his playing days. If I remember correctly PJ and Mihm had the same body type. More tall and Lanky as opposed to bulky. The difference is PJ was a hippie while Mihm is more Preppy. Both had similiar games. I think Mihm reminds PJ of himself. PJ was a career back-up player, and I think he has heart for Mihm, because, basically, so is Mihm. It's not that PJ was a bad player but he couldn't crack a line-up where the center was Willis Reed. The Knicks had a front line of Dave Debuesher, Dollar Bill Bradley and Reed. When Reed was hurt they had a guy name Jerry Lucas. Lucas, Debuesher, and Lucas...man! They could shoot. They were bombing the ball away against the Lakers back then. They didn't have 3 point plays back then but they were shooting lights out from distance. Anyway, during N.Y. Championship year, PJ was a back to these players. He was like a Mihm.

mike

The team has needed a quick, playmaking, PG for the better part of 15 seasons. No team in today's Association will advance to the promised land without one. From Kevin Johnson to Avery Johnson to John Stockton to Tony Parker and Steve Nash, the PG has been kryptonite to the Lakers' title hopes since Showtime closed.

They can be found through the draft. Tony Parker wasn't highly drafted.

They can be acquired and groomed via FA. Chauncey Billups was the poster boy for "bust" prior to signing with Detroit, and we all know what Mike Bibby did after a change of scenery.

Honestly, they may be okay at power forward. Their perimeter defense is what needs work. A good PG can be the engine for that defense.

I gotta agree that Mike James is not the pont guard we want - he can definitely fill it up, but he's got a major 'tude, and he was extremely disrespectful to his coach this past season... let someone else pay too much for that headcase, we've seen what happens with too many big egos in this town.

I'd rather see us go after Lindsey Hunter - he already knows the triangle and is an excellent defender and 3pt. shooter. If we offer him 2.5 - 3 mil (he made 1.7 this year) plus the starting job it might be enough to pry him away from being a bench player on a championship contender (he's a free agent) - but maybe not, most smart guys will play for less money if there's a legitimate shot at a championship.

I also like Marcus Banks for his quickness and athleticism, if they Lakers continue to think young he would be a good guy to develop along with our other guys - he probably wouldn't bring us as much immediate success as Hunter though, but the fast breaks sure would be fun to watch!

Kevin McK:

That's some good revisionist history.

Our beloved team rode that "giant oaf" to 3 world titles. No Big. No Titles. He was to blame for not reaching the four-peat, and his demands were huge, but make no mistake.

Those aren't the reasons he was traded for a bunch of guys.

Buss wanted Kobe Bryant and Kobe Bryant didn't want Shaq around.

So it was "The Ego of Kobe" that put the Lakers in the lottery. Make no mistake about it.

And respect the man whose back the Lakers and the fans rode on to return to glory, his faults notwithstanding.

Mitch,

LOL!

mike

William,

I don't remember Kobe shouting "Pay Me" during a preseason game 2 years before his contract was up after having spent the previous summer relaxing and then getting surgery on "company time." Shaq is the only reason Shaq left town, if he had not been such a selfish ignoramous, he would still be here and they would still be winning titles. Kobe had nothing to do with him leaving, although the media loves to spin it that way.

Yes, Shaq was part of a team that brought the city 3 titles, but he didn't do it by himself by any means. He's also ran himself out of town by demanding to be the highest paid player in the NBA despite being on the decline. He forced Buss to choose between him and Kobe by forcing the contract issue - basically saying to Buss - "I know you're going to give Kobe a max contract at the end of the season, so I want you to show me you love me more by giving me a maximum extension right NOW, even though I still have several years on my contract and I'm out of shape and lazy" - Buss couldn't afford to max out both and be able to pay anyone else, so he made the right decision. Shaq should've realized where he was with his career and that it was time to start passing the torch to Kobe and take a respectable (still large) contract, but instead he forced a contract war and got himself traded, and good riddance to him. Shaq may have come off looking better because Shaq plays so well with the media - they will always paint him as the good guy because they like him, and well, we all know how the media feels about Kobe so you'll find very few reports out there willing to tell it like it really is - no one would buy papers or subscribe to web sites if there wasn't Kobe bashing to be read.

Kevin McK,

I second everything re Shaq. Nice post.

JF

Steven

You are offically 'Ignored' for your stupid comments. Obviously you HATERS will never get it.
We do not care what you say about KOBE we will never listen to your HATE.

Most of this hate is as usual racially motivated.
Media and good old boys can never get over a black man making loads of money and speaking his mind.

In the old days that boy whould have got a good whiping or better still a good hanging.

Do not forget pack a tooth brush with you when you vist NASH tonight he might improve your performance in bed tonight!!!

Laker_UK

Looking at the offseason I think it is pretty obvious that we need a pt guard and a good defensive powerforward. For the PF spot what does everyone think of Kenyon Martin? They are pretty unhappy with him in Denver and have suspended him indefinitely (sound like anyone we traded for last year?) With him at the PF spot our d would improve drasticly. I think if we offered Mihm and a first and whatever else would make the money work they might make that deal. Or am I just crazy?

McK:

Good post. Much of what you say about Shaq is true. But you know, in your heart of hearts, that if Kobe didn't want Shaq to go, Shaq wouldn't have gone. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.

Come on . . . you don't trade Shaq for peanuts unless you're in a desperate situation. He had one year left. If money were the real issue, they would have sat on Shaq's contract -- and made him sit out the 04-05 season -- until they could field a decent offer. In that case, Shaq is the unqualified goat.

But that's not what they did. They conducted a fire sale for the services of Shaquille O'Neal. Why? Because they had to dump him in order for Kobe to be convinced to return.

Phil Jackson himself said 2 years ago Kobe was the one person who could have brought everybody back.

Kobe gets bashed unfairly for a lot of things. But this is one instance where he truly holds the lion's share of the blame. It simply strains credulity to lay all the blame at Big's feet simply because Big isn't rocking the purple and gold anymore.

The plan was to keep the duo together for a long time. I knew it. You knew it. Money wouldn't have kept Buss from keeping them together. That's why Phil said what he said back then.

Lookit, I am a Los Angeles Laker fan. Not a Kobe Bryant fan. I'm not going to apologize for him unconditionally. Neither should any Laker fan. If Kobe's actions hurt the franchise, then he should be called on it. He is a first-ballot HOFer, an extraordinary talent, and his jersey will be raised to the Staples rafters someday. But he, more than anyone else, deserves blame for the breakup of a potential dynasty.

But again . . . thank the Lord Phil Jackson came back to put the free-falling franchise on steady footing.

William,

I disagree. The Lakers would NEVER have traded Shaq to the West. I read somewhere that they were surprised with the lack of interest that teams were showing. I guess we're not the only ones that don't want a declining, over-paid, overweight big man with his best years in the rearview mirror. Plus he's lazy. The only reason he lost a lot of weight for Pat Riley is because he still wanted that big money contract extension, and it was pretty much a condition precedent to his getting it. He had no choice.

JF

William,

I don't know what to say other than I completely disagree. They had to get something for Shaq before he was worth nothing - do you think Miami could trade him now with what he's getting paid vs. what he's producing? Not a chance. I'll even go further and say current Shaq isn't even worth Kwame Brown and Lamar Odom in a trade, and yet their salaries combined still don't equal Shaq's. Buss made the right move at the right time, Kobe's desires to play or not play with Shaq had very little if anything to do with it.

There's a difference between "wanting Shaq to go" and "not actively promoting his return" - if Shaq would've relented on his contract BS and worked it out with Buss, he and Kobe would've played together just as they had for many years before - contentious but effective. Shaq didn't want to stay and pass the torch though, he created the circumstances that caused the trade - it's not Kobe's job to go out to the media and say "Bring Back Shaq" - especially when he's entering free agency - it just doesn't work that way.

It's no secret Shaq & Kobe didn't like each other, but if you're going to insist that Kobe's preference to not play with Shaq somehow influenced Buss' decision (I disagree), you'd have to say that Shaq's same preference to not play with Kobe (or at the very least to make more money than Kobe) was behind his contract skwaking which was meant to force Buss' hand to pick between the two. Shaq broke up the Dynasty by forcing the trade, and I'm not the only one who thinks so - I'm actually constantly surprised by how many other fans I meet who agree with me, you'd think Shaq would be more revered in this town, but he really isn't. Laker fans are smart about their basketball, and they can smell a rat even if he won championships for them - did you hear how he got booed at the game in January? And how psyched the arena was when Bynum dunked on his fat butt? The fans know what's up with Shaq, Buss was forced by Shaq to choose between them, and he made the right choice, it gets clearer and clearer every day.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about this one I guess, neither of us can really know the truth, all we have to go on is our instinct. Shaq is dead to me though, nothing brings me more joy than watching him bring down a franchise that isn't my Lakers.

Kevin,

Props again. Better put than my response.

JF

Shaq is a pompous fool who demanded way more money than he was worth. If you don't believe that, watch the next Heat game. And keep in mind that this is after he finally got in to decent shape, which is something he was never willing to do in LA. The bottom line: Shaq is on a steady decline and Miami is doomed to mediocrity until they can get his contract off of their books.

Kobe was never involved with the Shaq trade. Both Kobe and Dr Buss have stated that Kobe had nothing to do with the trade, but the Media continues to sell the fantasy they created it because it brings ratings. There was no love lost between Shaq and Kobe, but that doesn't mean that Kobe has some magical pull over Dr Buss. Basketball is a business. Dr Buss made a financial decision believing that, in the long run, Kobe was a better investment than Shaq.

Two years later, it is now obvious Dr Buss made the right decision. You can continue selling your fantasy, but fewer and fewer people are paying attention.

Adrian,

I agree with everything you say, but "There was no love lost between Shaq and Kobe." I didn't realize there was ever any love to be lost.

JF

Taurus,

I definitely liked your post I already knew most of those stats but it was cool to see someone bring them up on the blog.

Personally, I do like Steve Nash, but I cringe when I think about the fact that Nash will now be mentioned in the same breath as Micheal, Bird and Magic.

Those are our sacred guys as basketball fans. It's got to be what Baseball fans felt when Roger Maris was breaking the Babe's single season HR mark.

What's happened is that the definition of MVP has changed quickly. Just two years ago KG won the MVP and he was a guy who could be considered the best player in the NBA. What's different is that KG wasn't the most "valuable" player it was the additions of Cassel and Spree that allowed KG to win it, because they helped the T'Wolves win.

Shaq in Miami and Nash in PHX changed everything. The media saw LA fall apart and Miami turn into America's team as soon as Shaq came into Miami. And in PHX, Nash was the catalyst behind a basketball renaissance.

This gave media pundits a new wayt to name their MVP, and they haven't looked back.

Sorry bout the long post guys.

JF:

Who said anything about trading Shaq to the West? I'm talking about trading him for value.

Again, McK, you're right on a lot of what you say, but . . .

1. You don't address the obvious question. If Shaq were the main problem, and he had a year left on his contract, why trade him for peanuts? If you're Buss and Kupchak you hold all the cards. They could have re-signed Kobe and STILL kept Shaq for 04-05 with no long-term problems. Then they could have traded him when a team stepped up with value. But they didn't do that, and the reason should be obvious. Kobe would have walked that summer if Shaq had stayed.

2. You can't possibly believe that Heat trade was an even trade. The first season, getting Shaq resulted in 20 more wins for the Heat, losing Shaq resulted in 20 less wins for the Laker. For all of his faults, Shaq was the cog in the 2004 Finals team, he got the Heat to the ECF and came within one injury of getting them to the Finals in 2005. And Shaq is still playing in 2006. Even past his prime, Shaq gets you in the hunt. Odom? Come on.

3. Is Phil Jackson a liar? Neither one of us could know the raw uncut deal, McK, that's true. But wouldn't Phil know the deal? Or is everyone but Kobe a liar and a rat?

4. Shaq raised 3 banners for the franchise we BOTH love. He'll never be "dead" to me. I will always be grateful for what he meant to LA and everyone who calls himself or herself a Laker fan should be to their dying day.

5. You say Lakers fans are smart and can smell a rat. I smell both of them. One of them is gone. One of them remains.

6. There is blame to go around for that whole situation. It's not an all-or-nothing proposition. To assert or imply Kobe isn't responsible at some level is, let us just say, overly generous. It may make many of us Laker fans feel better to think that the guy who stayed is the real saint, but honeybabies, it simply ain't true. And if Shaq ran off Kobe, Phil and Karl you best believe he'd catch the same heat from me. Pun intended.

Adrian, was Phil Jackson simply hallucinating 2 years ago? Was he selling a fantasy?

By the way . . . not every Laker fan with a dissenting opinion is the enemy or a hater, folks. And you don't need to rationalize the past to be a Laker fan either.

So this is what the offseason is like for laker fans, it's back to the ShaqKobe wars. In my opinion neither one of those guys forced the other out of town, they are however guilty of not liking each other. If two guys don't like each other, then it's only logical to assume they'd be happy to not be on the same team. If kobe had reached out to Shaq and told Buss if you don't pay shaq I'm outta here cuz thats our best chance of winning a championship you know buss would have paid up. Also if Shaq had called kobe and been like hey dude fcuk the beef, I need you to win and I'm begging you to resign with the lakers, then kobe probably wouldn't have taken so long to make up his mind about resigning with the lakers.

We can talk contracts, laziness, basketball skills but bottom line is this breakup was visible from a mile away. Those 2 dudes simply didn't like each other and when the opportunity arose to part ways it was apparent that one if not both of them might sieze on the opportunity.

So who ran who out of town? Well it was Buss decision to make, choose 1 star or lose both. And given a choice of 2 great talents he chose the younger one. The mistake people make when trying to blame shaq or kobe is they assume that we could have somehow kept both ( yeah it was possible but considering the history, improbable ). Wasn't it commonly accepted that one of Phil's accomplishments was that he had them playing together that long?

And sure you might go duh, dat's what we're saying kobe didn't like shaq and that was the problem. Well true but they both had a hand in the fued. A few examples:

Kobe snitched on Shaq, how's that supposed to help their relationship. Shaq slapped kobe in practice and let the whole world know in a book he wrote, yeah that's a great way to resolve difficulties with a co-worker.

But my heart is purple and gold, whom do I root for. Simple, the one that's still in purple and gold. But make no mistake, Shaq's jersey will be retired in staples and when it is you should all show the big fella luv when dat happens. And enough of this talk about bynum dunking over shaq, alright it was a fun moment but that's all it was. Come on people, show more class, Shaq brought us 3 championships. Hell even if bynum turns out to be better than Shaq ( and that's a big if ) we shouldn't be so quick to disrespect shaq or drag his name through mud, he was our mvp for those 3 runs. Kobe's my man but i'll be damned if i stand by as laker fans trash laker heroes of yester years. So don't even think about bringing up a lamar rocks and horry was a dud argument either :)

William,

read my last post, hope you agree you're dead wrong after reading it. As mentioned I do not believe kobe played any part in the actual break up, it was a decision Buss had to make. Granted the decision was due to the feud between kobe and shaq but that has always been there. So blame kobe for not liking shaq ( but realise as well that it takes 2 to tango ), but don't blame him for a decision that wasn't his to make.

Mitch, u are great man .
guys there are guys that as kobe put it are hoping up and dpwn from the band wagon (put the places are almost full .
mike phil is a 9 times champion in the last 15.
he might be 10 times in 16-17.
and shaq (not for mike) did breake the four-peat.
he didnt wanna give up on the leading role and didnt wanna take less than 30 million only to take 20 in maimi,which we chose (i love lo and he will not be traded ) but dont u think that jermain oneil would have been better (back then)
no it had to be miami,dont be mistaken i love the deasel and i hope he nevr wins another title but will never forget the dunks blocks and even freethrows that helped kobe take the lakers to the promise land,and dont worry we are coming back and u vcan bet on that.

So Taliq says something and now I'm supposed to admit I'm "dead wrong." That was funny. You're a lot like Bryant. You don't lack for self-confidence.

You make valid, though obvious points about Kobe and Shaq sharing the blame. You also make valid points -- which I've already made -- about not disrespecting former Lakers who've contributed to their winning tradition.

But, fellow Laker fan, you pretty much dodge the obvious.

Kobe would not re-sign unless Shaq was gone. Kobe could have re-signed, and then Buss could have sat on Shaq's contract, waited to trade him for value until he got a better deal, or let it expire. Buss made the decision, sure, but he made it hastily because he was guaranteed to lose Kobe to another team if he didn't make it quick. Kobe forced Buss' hand, even moreso than Shaq did.

As Phil himself said, Kobe could have stopped all of this if he wanted to by re-signing and then waiting for Shaq to sit out and be traded. To say that Kobe had absolutely nothing to do with this situation, when his passive-aggressive behavior clearly indicates otherwise, is to co-sign Kobe's copout.

This doesn't mean the franchise doesn't have to move on. This doesn't mean fans should fault the players who had nothing to do with this situation. Phil being back is a great comfort, because you know as well as I do that but for Phil the Lakers are lottery-bound.

But in order to evaluate whether Kobe will be able to "lead" the Lakers back to the top, one must evaluate his judgment when it comes to dealing with the team on the court and off the court. He has shown that he will hold the team over a barrel, with no disregard for its best interests, when it suits him. Shaq, to some extent, did that too (see the '03-'04 season). But Shaq ain't here anymore. Shaq isn't the franchise anymore. Kobe is.

So it is eminently fair to question Kobe's judgment when we think about the team's future. The leader is supposed to be the bigger man. Kobe wasn't in that situation, and it's naive to think he didn't do what he could to orchestrate a hasty, terribly one-sided trade. Hopefully, Kobe will mature. He made strides with Phil this season (after getting his head handed to him by trying to run the show by himself last season).

We can only hope.

If Shaq was such a great team player, how come he felt that the offense must run through him? Why couldn't he have concentrated on defense and rebounding? The 2004 team needed him to be a defensive anchor and rebounder. His ego dictated that he must set up in the post with his hand up waiting for someone to feed him. I can still hear him complaining about getting "touches". Hey, how about "touching" the ball on the offensive boards, Mr. MDE? Kobe Bryant gets a lot of criticism for a lot of things, but only a blind person would ever question his work ethic. If Shaq worked 1/10th as hard as Kobe, the Lakers could of had a string of rings comparable to those of the Boston dynasty of the 60's. There is enough blame for both players. I like Shaq and I appreciate what he did during his Laker years, but deep down in his heart he knows that his poor work ethic will cost him years off his career. Nobody can blame Kobe or anyone else for that.

bronxlakerfan: we're not that far apart. Shaq and Kobe are both sinners in this. Neither is a saint.

let's be clear. Kobe works very hard. Shaq is cutting years off of his career with his inconsistent training regimen.

But Shaq was the cog of the offense. Phil knew it, Kobe knew it, Jack Smrek knew it, hell everyone knew it. Ridding the team of Shaq was the reason Phil quit, and the reason Kobe wanted Phil to quit. Because Shaq was always the first option.

Shaq's faults are many. But your sentiment can be equally applied to Kobe. Had Kobe, like Magic, deferred to Shaq -- knowing Shaq's prime years were soon to be behind him -- the two of them could have won twice as many titles.

That's all history, but it's relevant to the extent that Kobe is the one still here, and Kobe's history in the dispute at the very least raises questions about a) his ability to put the team first; b) his ability to mesh with players of great talent; and c) his ability to lead. THESE lingering doubts fuel the allegations that Kobe "quit" in Game 7.

William Haynes...

I honestly think that Kobe did defer to Shaq during most of their time together. But Kobe was not Magic, who was a pass first point guard in a system geared towards running. Kobe's role was to facilitate in the triangle, which he did quite well. As far as Shaq being the cog of the offense, I watched many games during those years where Kobe would facilitate for 3 quarters and the Lakers would flounder and fall behind. Then Kobe would be called upon to save the day in the fourth. Those Lakers relied on him to close as much as these Lakers do. As far as Phil quitting, he didn't quit: he was not asked back. Big difference. Look, I'm not blind to Kobe's faults. I don't know why he only took 3 shots in the second half of game 7. But I choose to believe what he said afterwards. I think that even with his strength of will, he may have been beaten down a little by all the negativity that always seems to surround him. That, plus the fact that the game was out of hand may have lead to his actions.

bronxlakerfan: forgive me, Phil didn't quit. He was asked not to come back. But that only reinforces the point re: Kobe.

And yes, Kobe did defer to Shaq. But the numbers in the "Bling Dynasty" era didn't lie: When Shaq played, they mostly won; when he didn't, even with Kobe, they were fair-to-middlin'. And yes, Kobe did need to take over in the 4th quarter at times when the game was on the line. Nobody should ever forget that Kobe saved the Lakers' bacon when Shaq fouled out in critical games the 2000 and 2002.

The point is, Kobe got tired of it. Had he been patient for another season or so, he would have been the man. Just like Magic deferred to Kareem all those years. But he got impatient. I just don't get why some Laker fans -- not you -- are naive to think that Kobe is the saint in this whole thing. This was a "shotgun divorce" plain and simple, and Kobe was wielding the 12-gauge by holding his re-signing over Buss' head.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not down on Kobe's performance this season. He's invariably been brilliant. He's doing what he can (aside from still taking silly shots from time to time). But he's brought a lot of this weight on himself. It gives this Laker fan no joy in watching him go through it because his fate IS our fate now. But historically, it hasn't been that way, and it doesn't HAVE to be that way.

But the key word is "historically." We are where we are. Just watch this kid. And watch out for him too.

William,

Dawg, we're painting the same pictures in different lights. We both agree that Shaq and Kobe had beef. However you take it beyond that by stating that things that never happened would "obviously" have happened, i've heard of predicting the future but not predicting the past that never was.

"Kobe would not re-sign unless Shaq was gone", and you'd would have gotten raja bell sucks tattooed on your butt had the lakers won, really you would have, i can see it in the tea leaves right now :)

"Kobe could have re-signed, and then Buss could have sat on Shaq's contract, waited to trade him for value until he got a better deal, or let it expire", would have, could have, should have, blah blah blah. Alright I admit you do have a point, he could have but my question is why should he. I interned 2ce at the company i'm working for now but before accepting the offer I held out until the last minute so I could explore other offers. I ended up choosing the same company because i felt it was the best fit for me, however in the process of waiting it out they offered me more money. I didn't ask for it but they did, and it probably helped convince me this was the best fit for me but in no way was I trying to force the company or expecting it to pay me more. On the contrary the thoughts going on in my head were more like "damn it i like the company but i don't want to move to new york cuz everyone i know is in chicago, and who's gonna teach my nephew how to throw a mean left hook when he gets into trouble on the south side".

Here are some possible thoughts that could have caused kobe to delay his decision "dude i wonder what it be like to play with amare in phoenix" or "dude i wonder what it'd be like to play in the mecca of basketball, nyc ( nike was seriously pushing for this, knicks only had $5m a year, nike was willing to double kobe's endorsment but still it would have been much less than la or even phoenix )" or dude "hmm i want to stay in la but i'm tired of trying to coexist with a dude that doesn't like me, maybe i can be the dude that brings the clippers it's 1st championship" or dude "i'll make the lakers sweat it out a bit but who am i kidding there's no way i'm taking a $20m paycut to go to play with amare, only to find out getting along with him is tougher than with shaq" or "damn it shaq got traded, now if i don't sign they'll say i caused the downfall of la, wait a minute they'll say that even if i sign, arghh d big fella did me in again"

Theatrics aside, my point is that Kobe has a life, he has a family and it is only fair that he explores what his options are. It would have been ok for him to choose another organization as well, devastating to the lakers but still it would have been his choice to make. You can argue that Buss made the decision easier for him due the fact we all know shaq and kobe had beef. But I hope i've made it clear that the fact they had beef doesn't mean that he was checking out other teams only because of his feud with Shaq. And even if that was the case ( and that's a big if ) it was still a decision Buss had to make.

William,

Even if Kobe had actually left LA, even if he'd done it because he was tired of the Shaq feud, or he wanted to lead his own team, does it make him a terrible person. I don't think so. I don't see how it'd be different from me taking another job cause it has a bigger title, does that make me an egomaniac or just ambitious. Is this not a country built on follow your dreams. Why is the public always so quick to judge stars. Jordan's dream of playing baseball, a sport his late father wanted him to play was trashed by the media. They were like oh he sucks on the baseball pitch, oh is it for his dad or was it just his ego telling him he could be great at another sport, oh he didn't even earn his place on that team his being there means some other dude was unfairly left out. Some will call it the price you pay for living in the lime light, some will call it being objective, in my opinion it's just being mean because i sure as hell won't want to be treated that way. Maybe kobe's dream was to come play in nyc, where the media worships it's athletes provided they perform. Maybe he dreamt of moving back to the east coast, a train ride away from his hometown philly, and whom are we to judge him for having such a dream if indeed he had one. Whom are we to reduce it to "oh he just wants to go somewhere else where he can get 100% of the shots" or oh "he'd rather play 1 against 5 bet he wishes he had no teammates", or "wow he's the most selfish ball player even though he's always in top 3 in assists for his team". Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, though i must say on kobe's part i see no sin ( at least not on the issue of basketball ).

Taliq:

The problem isn't that Kobe's decisions, weren't legitimate decisions. At the end of the day, one has to go for delf.

It's the way he handled it that sheds light -- and doubt -- on his judgment.

Let's use your job situation as an example.

Suppose you worked with an experienced employee you couldn't stand. He was brilliant but sometimes cost the company with his laziness. Sometimes management had to intervene when y'all had beef, but together, you produced the best work in the company. When the summer is up, you make an ultimatum to management -- explicitly or implicitly -- I will not resign unless you fire the guy immediately.

Problem? The company has little time to interview a qualified replacement for the other guy. But they decide you have too much potential, and figure you can produce similar quality work on your own. Your direct supervisor, a proven standout in his field, disagrees, management tosses him too. Then they finally give him the ax.

Now you got what you wanted. The other guy is gone and you have your section all by yourself.

Problem is, as talented as you are, the work you do was meant for 2 people. You try valiantly, but you're constantly running behind. Meanwhile, word spreads on the street that you, an upstart albeit talented intern, ran off 2 proven vets. Now what is likely? Despite ALL the problems the other employee caused,

- The investors are pointing the finger at you because you can't handle the work alone and management moved too hastily to fire the other guy.

- Other employees might be reluctant to work with you.

- You will struggle for years, failing to earn bonuses you could have easily earned if you had been a little more patient (or in fact gone somewhere else).

Feel me? Now you made the decisions you felt were right for you, but did they REALLY benefit you in the end? Or your company? Or the company's investors? Time will tell, but it ain't lookin' good right now, champ.

We're on the same side, I simply am pointing out some serious warning signs that MUST be addressed before the Lakers can think about anything but simply making the playoffs. And they start with the so-called Mamba.

Taliq:

I am only giving my opinions on Kobe's actions insofar as they affect the Los Angeles Basketball Lakers of the National Basketball Association. As far as I know, he's a saint away from the game.

William,

You hit the nail right on the head dawg:

"When the summer is up, you make an ultimatum to management -- explicitly or implicitly -- I will not resign unless you fire the guy immediately."

Going back to the scenario you painted, beef with supervisors etc. Well in that case my holding out to explore other offers could be interpreted "implicitly" that the company had to choose between me the sharp wiz kid and my supervisors. Yet my actual reason was because I wanted to be stay close to family and friends.

Once you start going after people for "implicit" things then it's just a witch hunt. For instance reading your statments there's an "implicit" underlying tone that suggests you're emotionally unstable, will lie through your teeth just to prove a point, prone to stealing since lieing leads to theft. If I had my way you'd be locked up in a jail cell now because of the person I know you really are based on the kind of hate you're "implicitly" expressing, i suspect you might even be a racist.

I can only show you the well, it's your choice whether you drink from it or not. The only point I'm trying to make is kobe never said out loud he wanted shaq out of town before he signed. Buss never said out loud he felt pressured to make that choice. But if you're the kind of guy that's willing to crucify another over "implicit" evidence then rest assured that I was only kidding with my comments in the prior paragraph and i will not return the favor and read "implicitly" into your statements that you're just a mean fcuk. Instead I'll take it that you're just a laker fan that happens to have an opinion i consider to be wrong. Hope you don't read any "implicit" things into my tone ;-)