At Long Last... AK's MVP
Wow! There hasn't been this much fury going on in L.A. since they banned smoking in bars.
For the record, I understand why people's panties (or boxers, depending on your preference in drawers) get twisted into a bunch. The Lakers are your team. Kobe basically is the Lakers. Thus, you're rooting for your guy. That's what good fans do, so the reaction's fairly predictable. But BK and I are both basing our respective decisions on who we honestly think should win, not who we'd prefer as Lakers fans. Or fans, period. Which reminds me. I have a confession to make.
I don't really care who wins.
Okay, not entirely true. If Stephon Marbury or somebody absurdly undeserving wins, I'd actually be pissed because that turns the whole thing into a joke (although considering how much I loathe the Knicks, Starbury's destruction of them might earn my vote). And I'd actually be very happy if Shawn Marion somehow won, because he remains inexplicably underrated for reasons I can't wrap my head around. But if any of the heavy favorites (Kobe, Nash, Wade, Vujacic, etc.) come out on top, I'm fine, because there's no clear cut winner this season. Not even close. Way more players are in contention than usual. In recent years, it's been a short list. Last year was Nash v. Shaq. '04 was KG vs. TD. When Diesel won, he owned the thing. Such an unusually wide open race means there's no "right answer." No matter who I chose, people will offer counterpoints, many of which are valid. It's just that tight.
I also wanna explain some of my thought process, because it may be different than how many bloggers have been evaluating things (which is fine, since none of the actual MVP voters- a group which hasn't extended me membership- are going by a set standard, either).
1) I won't heavily penalize guys with a good supporting cast. Why? Because otherwise, to a large degree, I'd be voting based on how well a G.M. did their job. Dirk Nowitzki, for example, stars on a team with a fairly good rotation. So what? He still played extremely well. Should Shaq have been disqualified when he won playing alongside Kobe and some very good role players? Once Mitch Kupchak brings in ideal teammates for Kobe, is the award subsequently off limits to Ocho? I don't think so. Unless you think Dirk (or Player X) would be be ridiculously worse on a lesser team (and have solid reasons to support the opinion), it's irrelevant. These guys might put up better numbers on a worse team (since there's less guys to contribute), so a superior supporting cast might provide even more credentials, in a roundabout way. Each player's production and performance will simply speak for itself.
2) I also refuse to speculate whether LeBron could or couldn't lead the Lakers to the playoffs. Or if Kobe could bring the Heat a title. Or what would happen if Nash and Billups (or any player combo) were traded for each other. How come? Well, aside from the fact that it has nothing to do with how anybody actually played and the theoretical results are 100% unprovable by any known form of science... no real reason. Look, you can't say whether the Cavs would truly gel better or worse with Kobe instead of LeBron. Or where Elton Brand could take the Lakers. So stop trying. You have better things to do with your time.
3) That whole "take Player X away from his team and what do you have" question: Dumb. The answer's always the same: A worse team. But what does that prove? Any team is worse without its best player. Yeah, the Lakers w/o Kobe go from scrapping for the playoffs to lottery bound, while the Mavs sans Dirk would go from elite to a 7 or 8 seed. But both falls are fairly dramatic in scale. One simply started out higher. Besides, if you really, truly consider that an important detail, the league MVP is Chris Paul. No team is more utterly dependant on one player than the Hornets with CP. And he's not even in the running.
4) I've never been a huge stats guy. I often find them boring, confusing and arbitrary. People also manipulate them to mean whatever they want. Thus, my decision won't be big on stats comparisons. Obviously, they'll pop up here and there, since they can't be ignored entirely. But I won't make everyone slog through a spread sheet to better understand what I think. Trust me. My opinion's not worth such tedium.
5) I tried to think of "valuable" in all senses of the word. Offense. Defense. All-around game. Efficiency. What he brings as a teammate. Anything and everything I deemed relevant. You may not agree with my choice, but it's hopefully not because I overlooked something.
And with that, enough stalling. My winner is...
Elton Brand.
Now I shut my blinds for fear of snipers.
And now I give my reasons.
Brand is averaging 25.1 ppg, 10th in the league. Obviously, 9 folks score more, but it's hard to knock that total. He's shooting 53% from the field, easily the best percentage among the league's leaders. And he's not doing it all on dunks, because as of March 29th, he'd only jammed 52 times, merely five more than Kobe. The points are mostly coming courtesy of an extremely improved jump shot. He's also producing those points while taking only 18 shots per game, the fewest of any top ten point generator. (Nash and Billups also produce well while shooting even less, but don't carry the burden of being their team's leading scorer). In other words, he's doing the most while requiring the least. And he only turns the ball over twice a game, so you don't even have to worry about him wasting his (relatively) few touches.
Simply put, Brand puts the "value" in valuable. It's like eating five star restaurant grub, but getting charged Big Mac prices. The Clips get their money's worth and then some from Brand, not just because of his production, but because Brand's proficiency allows his teammates the maximum amount of opportunities without potentially cutting into what the team needs from him. That's just one example of how he "makes his teammates better."
Brand's also averaging 10 boards a game (6th) and 2.6 blocks (4th). His assists (2.7) are plenty respectable for a big man and he shoots 77% from the stripe (despite a seriously odd hitch in his release). His defense is easily as good as any leading MVP contender and better than most. Would I pick him to hit a game winning trey over Kobe, Billups or Nash? Of course not. But there's more to a game than its last ten seconds, which more often than not aren't the difference between winning and losing. I'll also say this. If my team were up by 1, the other team was shooting, and I was worried about securing a rebound to prevent a potential put back or second shot attempt, you better believe EB would be my man over any other candidate. Not trying to downplay the importance of clutch shooting. I'm just saying, it's not all that matters.
Brand could very well be the NBA's most consistent player. He has 42 double doubles this season, 5th in the NBA. He's basically a guaranteed 20-10. You can set your watch to it. How that would help you tell time is beyond me, but you know what I'm saying. He also achieves it the same way game in and game out, which must be incredibly valuable for a coach creating strategy. When you know your best player will deliver (and the exact manner he'll do it), planning around him becomes that much simpler. His style of play is a rare luxury.
Brand's also the only true post player among the heavy favorites. Billups and Nash both run the point. Kobe, LeBron and Wade more or less play the same position and style. Obviously, they're not entirely the same, but you can't say there are zero comparisons, either. Nowitzki is a shooting guard in a power forward's body. Brand's the only guy doing his thing. Combined with the fact that it's generally considered harder to find than a quality big than a guard, Brand's value really stood out.
I also thought about what each player brings as a teammate. Brand scored major points here. He's an incredibly hard worker. He's a terrific presence in the locker room. His teammates truly like and respect him (for that matter, the entire league basically loves the guy). He takes losses, even horrific ones, quite well, which helps teammates avoid hanging their heads. Obviously, the other candidates measure up when setting an example, too. You're gonna have a hard time finding a guy who outworks Kobe, for example. But when combining every aspect listed, I certainly don't think anybody flat out beats Brand.
So there you have it. Elton Brand's my choice. How did everyone else shake out? Here are my nutshell rankings.
1. Elton Brand
2. Kobe Bryant/Steve Nash (tie) - If Kobe was a little better at balancing takeover mode and involving teammates, he'd be my winner, hands down. If Nash played better D, he'd be my winner, hands down. But as it is, I considered both guys heavily and couldn't decide who ranked higher.
4. Dwyane Wade - His first half was good, but not as spectacular as the second. That's mainly where he slipped with me.
5. LeBron James - Extremely good season, but not as good as the other guys. Plus, he needs to work on his D.
I'm guessing Brand won't piss off members of the Kobe Nation as much as Wade, since the Bryant and Brand are never compared. Then again, Brand plays for the Clippers, so who knows how y'all will react. But this is what I truly believe. As I said before, if you think it's Kobe, I would never say you were "wrong," even if he's not my choice. It should also be pointed out that BK and I have absolutely no stake in this no matter who wins. I know many of you guys think the NBA somehow benefits from keeping Kobe down or is terrified to market him. I don't understand your reasons and I'm not here to debate them. But either way, BK and I aren't "the NBA." I stand to make the same amount of money whether I choose Kobe Bryant, Elton Brand or Michael Olowakandi: My daily rate for writing this blog. Which I hope everyone will continue reading, despite any disagreement over my choice.
AK
(photo by Jeff Gross/Getty)
I don't think Brand is even the most valuable on his own team!!! Sam Cassel has made an MVP type players out of Hakeem, KG, and now Brand.
But it's SamIam that brings leadership, killer instinct, and clutch shooting, which has the Clippers making the playoffs.
Posted by: TCLaker | April 06, 2006 at 03:28 PM
Better Kobe is higher than Wade or LeBron, I'll give you that. And yea that's the dilemna, Kobe has great skill but a bit not with his teammates. Nash is good with his teammates but doesn't stand out on defense.
Posted by: arthas (Tom Brady) | April 06, 2006 at 03:31 PM
Elton Brand is a worthy consideration, if he could ever beat the Kings, but apparently, he can't.
Which reminds me, the Kings have won 4 out of their last 5 games, including a spanking of the Spurs last night. Friday, we have the Clippers (and although they are by far the best professional sports franchise in la la land); boooorrrring. What will this one make, about a zillion in a row?
How does this tie into a Brokeback blog? Insomuch as the Brokebacks will be a nonfactor come playoff time, I guess you've got me on that one.
By the way Jon, in their last meeting, in Cleveland no less, the Kings killed the Cavs. Almost sounds sacrificial doesn't it?
Posted by: sonnybelfast | April 06, 2006 at 03:33 PM
TC Laker,
I agree with you that Cassell's influence can't be neglected and he's been fantastic this season. But I think it's a stretch to say that he turned, say, Hakeem into a MVP candidate. You're talking about a HOF type player. KG has a great HOF shot, too. Brand has been considered one of the NBA's most underrated his whole career. So while I definitely concede Sam is important in all this, I think you're taking it a little too far. EB is absolutely the engine on the Clips.
Thanks for the comment,
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | April 06, 2006 at 03:33 PM
Hi AK. I like your choice. I don't think it would be mine, I'm leaning towards Nash, but Brand is having an outstanding season and really should be considered more often and more seriously. I like the way you defended your choice. Nice, well-written explanation.
One thing I don't understand, and I realize it's not just you that's said it, but what exactly has LeBron done wrong? I'm not the biggest fan of the dude, but he's having a really good year, you could argue his numbers are better than anybody's, and I don't think the Cavs are that good. Hughes might make a difference, but the only other player on that team I would want at all is Ilgauskas. I think Gooden is all right, the rest of them are basically stealing money...
Posted by: Michael A | April 06, 2006 at 03:35 PM
TC Laker, that's gotta be one of the best arguments for drug testing I've seen in a while. Sam Cassell is a pretty good player, and he's played great this year. Like Big Shot Rob, he's an assassin at the end of games. But to say that he turned the Dream or KG into MVP candidates is, frankly, crazy talk.
Brand has been underrated for a long time, so while Sam has certainly helped him this year, Brand has been one of the premier forwards in the NBA for a while now. Some people are finally noticing, that's all.
Posted by: Michael A | April 06, 2006 at 03:40 PM
AK,
That is actually not a crazy choice.
I was reading some one else's comments and I quote:
"I don't know why no one brings this up, but LEAGUE MVP needs to take into account the players overall impact on the LEAGUE as a whole.
What I mean is, in addition to the above criteria, one must consider what player has the biggest impact in making the league look good. Or in other words, has the biggest impact in making people interested in the NBA"
Which I would think would boost Kobe's chances of getting the MVP award.
But you have said a very important thing, everybody will probably use a different criteria at the time of their selection, some will go strictly by the numbers others with the guys in the best teams who knows.
All in all I think that most of the nominees deserve that award but I would lie if I say that I don't care if Kobe doesn't win it.
Even if I sometimes disagree with your brother's or your own opinions, I still enjoy reading both of you.
Good Work!!!!
Posted by: Outsidergua | April 06, 2006 at 03:41 PM
AK,
You're right. Hakeem was a stretch.
To me, EB is like Kobe without the requisite leadership and killer instinct that all MVP players must possess.
Kobe's like EB and Sam rolled into one!
EB is kind of like James Worthy back in the day. He might have been the most talented, or perhaps the best player in the squad, but Magic was clearly their leader and the most valuable.
Sort of like Nash and Amare last year.
Posted by: TCLaker | April 06, 2006 at 03:45 PM
Whatever stats shows: Cleveland has King to follow. His name is LeBron James. This years MVP.
Posted by: Steven | April 06, 2006 at 03:46 PM
How could you say EB is the MVP. In the beginning of the continuation of the post you said he was tenth in the league in points. Is that not a stat? Also why wasn't EB a candidite in recent years? he may have stepped it up a little this year but he would be nowhere without his supporting crew. I mean sam, cuttino, and Chris Camen. So if you say that Elton Brand is your pick, mine would be Micheal Redd, if stats don't matter at all and supporting cast doesnt matter(Micheal Redd wouldn't actually be my pick). So thats all I have to say
Posted by: Brian | April 06, 2006 at 03:50 PM
AK,
I could live with EB as the MVP.
I don't really like the the Clippers (I hate them actually), especially since every time they play someone who is chasing or right in front of us in the standings, they can't beat them.
But like you said you can't really compare him with Kobe.
But if Elton has been a 20/10 guy his entire career, why is it that only after he got some help (Cassell, Mobley, and even Vlade Rad lately) that it's considered MVPesque?
Yeah the Clipps have been great this year. It just seems like the guards, Cassell, Mobley and Livingston are making him look better because they're winning. Hell, even Chris Kaman is playing better then he did last year.
Kobe for MVP!!!
P.S. Jon, please post a bunch stats about this, please?
Posted by: Scott | April 06, 2006 at 03:50 PM
TC Laker,
I actually think EB is a very good leader. He just simply didn't know how to create a winning atmosphere. There's a huge difference and I think it's understandable in his case. He's spent his entire career either in Chicago immediately post-Jordan (an ugly time) and the Clips (no explanation needed). And his teammates were always products of the same environment, too. Sometimes, you need the presence of someone who's been around something good to provide insight.
I would never take away from Kobe's knowledge of of winning, because he absolutely has it. But he benefitted greatly from being a part of winning environment from day one, with vets (Shaq, Horry, Fox, E.Jones, D. Harper, etc.) who'd been around winning as well. I don't mean winning titles. I mean, literally, a winning record. It's not something most people enter the league just knowing how to create. So I don't fault EB on that end. I've seen enough of him to know he's a good leader.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | April 06, 2006 at 03:51 PM
I knew AK's choice would be less controversial.
But AK, are you sure you wouldnt change your votes by the 20th. I mean, 3 more monster games by Kobe would pretty much seal it I guess, what with Nash's stock dipping.
Brand's actually an intelligent choice. But somehow if Kobe doesnt have a great stretch run and the Suns continue their downward spiral, I'll take Chauncey man. He's the best leader-cum-player in the league.
Posted by: ravi | April 06, 2006 at 03:55 PM
Definitely not as nuts as BK, and better arguments too. The fact that he's not their leader down the stretch and that he wasn't able to take the Clips to the playoffs on his own (needed big additions this year to get there) takes him off my list though. He's been putting up great numbers his whole career, but he has never lead a team to the playoffs, and I think this year it's too easy to argue that Cassell took them there despite Elton's great numbers. The thing with Brand's dependibility is that as an opposing coach you don't need to plan against it, you just chalk up that Elton's going to get those numbers and then concentrate on the other guys, he's not any more dangerous if you don't pay attention to him, he's not going to drop 50 on you... heck, his career high is 44 which he's only hit twice, an MVP should be capable of going for 30+ on almost any night. This year the only thing Brand improved over last is that his scoring increased by 5ppg, but his shots per game have also gone up, so is he really any different than the 04/05 Elton? I don't think so.
Posted by: Kevin McK | April 06, 2006 at 03:57 PM
I actually like the reasoning behind the Brand pick, I disagree, but its better than the Wade for MVP campaign.
Here is my criteria for who should be MVP
1) Must be on a Championship Contender. I mean that is the point to playing, right?
This eliminates Lebron, Kobe, and everybody else not on the Pistons, Heat, Spurs, Suns, Mavs, or Clippers(Clippers have a legitimate shot in my opinion, especially with Corey back).
2) Must be the focal point of the teams winning strategy.
This eliminates; Parker, Marion, Nowitzki (defense designed to protect him), Billups (who cares about individual awards when your team is built to win championships), and Wade (Shaq is still the focal point on offense and defense- Wade benefits from the effect Shaq has on the game. Plus the Heat were a .500 team before Shaq came back- a fact that is often overlooked by people that fail to look at the season as a whole)
3)And of the remaining players you examine performance.
This eliminates Shaq and Duncan- both plagued by injuries- leaving Nash and Brand. You can argue Nash is a liability on defense, but the Suns defensive philosophy in my opinion is basically to run you out of the building, and Nash is the one that conducts that strategy.
In fact if you look at the requirements Nash betters Brand in each; (1)Suns are closer to the title than the Clips, (2) Nash is the reason the Suns game strategy works, and (3) he is having another insane year performance wise 19.2ppg, 10.5 ast, 4.2 rebs, 51% fg%.
For me Nash is the logical pick.
Posted by: Jtrincad | April 06, 2006 at 03:59 PM
I absolutely agree with Elton Brand being MVP. His off season conditioning program raised his play to a new level - with or without Sam Cassell. Why would anyone pick Lebron James, when even by his own admission he is hesitant to take the big shot at the end of games?
Posted by: Roger B. | April 06, 2006 at 04:00 PM
Kevin McK, you really think only people who could go for 30+ any night should be MVP? Does it matter how they get it? Or how many shots they take?
Actually, I'm stunned a Laker fan would print that; I guess Magic should just send those awards back to the league...
Posted by: Michael A | April 06, 2006 at 04:04 PM
Brian,
I'm not even sure what you're asking me. I'd be happy to answer whatever, but can you streamline your thoughts a bit, please?
Thanks,
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | April 06, 2006 at 04:05 PM
AK,
I agree with you to a certain extent, but I think your making a case for my point.
"He just simply didn't know how to create a winning atmosphere." I think this is a huge consideration for an MVP. Bird, Magic, MJ, and even Nash last year DID know.
Posted by: TCLaker | April 06, 2006 at 04:06 PM
TC,
But again, Nash, Magic and Nash all had the benefit of arriving in good environments surrounded by people who could share knowledge on winning. They didn't figure it solely out on their own. Even Jordan struggled some in the beginning. It's very, very rare that a guy enters the league and joins a team with an environment of losing and knows how to turn it around solo as a youngster. If Sterling had ever provided that team with some vet leadership (i.e., spent some money), EB's career could have been a lot different.
But it's an interesting point you're bringing up, for sure.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | April 06, 2006 at 04:12 PM
AK,
I can live with your choice, he is a good candidate.
I don't like him, but he is an MVP candidate.
Posted by: lakofan | April 06, 2006 at 04:21 PM
AK,
I think that's the one thing that he's lacking --leadership in regards to "knowing how to win."
He's no longer underrated. He's name is always mentioned as an MVP candidate, although it's at the bottom of the list.
He needs another year for people to digest how good he really is. The jury is still out.
Next year, if the Clippers win the division, and he puts up the same numbers, for sure he'll be a top candidate.
Posted by: TCLaker | April 06, 2006 at 04:24 PM
AK,
EB is cool... He's 3rd on my list after Kobe & Nash. Very likeable guy, hard worker, has a good "fire" going, improved his mid-range jumper tremendously - not as exciting as Kobe, but not as boring as TD, that's for sho!
I don't agree with you that "a good team" shouldn't affect your vote, unless you're also saying "a bad team" shouldn't affect it too - because then at least your consistent (both are judgment on the Gen. Mgr).
I do think you can judge a player based on the "underperformance / overperformance" of a team. We as Laker fans tend to believe the talent on our team is "B" or above. I think - based on player by player comparisons / history - that we have a "C" or below talented team. Thus if we take 7th seed or better AND end up 10 games over .500 or better - that is AS GOOD or almost AS GOOD as Phoenix's 24 games over .500 (with 2 all-stars and great shooters). Kobe should get some credit for team "overperformance", just like Nash should. I KNOW THIS IS ALL SUBJECTIVE...
Anyways... I can live with EB, but not Wade - definitely not Wade.
Posted by: JohnA | April 06, 2006 at 04:24 PM
I just overlooked AK's #1 choice and checked out how he ranked the rest. It's nice to see someone with intelligence putting Kobe ahead of everyone else and pointing out the others' deficiencies.
Like me, it seems you make it a point that the player should be a good defensive player. That's the way i think it should be this is a 2 way sport unlike football where u have different teams for offense and defense. This is what makes basketball what it is: the fact that you have to guard the same person you are trying to score against!
Posted by: EJ | April 06, 2006 at 04:26 PM
The one problem with EB's candidacy would be the same issue as with LBJ. Can he be the 'go-to guy' in crunch time. Both havent made convincing cases as yet.
Posted by: ravi | April 06, 2006 at 04:26 PM
I think both AK and BK want this blog to flourish and there is no better way than to make some controversial choices. I agree this year's MVP choice is not clear. I feel that MVP thing is slightly over blown issue. Most of the time it has been way too subjective and senstive to trivial things otherwise how can you justify just 5 awards to MJ and 1 to Shaq when they were the best players in the league with the most influence and the best record for many more seasons. I also feel that this year if any other player would have played like Kobe with the same supporting cast, this race would not even be close. One can always twist the subjective matters to justify his selection, Kobe too selfish to trust his teammates or LeBron scared to take the last shot. The arguments can be thrown in any direction. I don't know who will win this time but it's certain that league won't mind if it goes to Wade, LeBron or Kobe because those 3 players make the league popular. Others are worthy candidates but tell me who goes to see EB, Nash, Billup or Dirk to play in the opposing team.
Posted by: ash | April 06, 2006 at 04:29 PM
AK,
I respect your choice. I've always liked EB (I love Duke) and have felt like he was an underrated player. The way I see it, if he was drafted by the Knicks, or Lakers he would have been an all-star since his second year in the league, but he got stuck in Chi-town when they sucked, and then relished the chance to be with the Clippers. My point is if he were in a bigger market from day 1 everyone would have seen him and he would have been an multiple time all-star.
I think out of all the other guys, he is the only one I could see winning it without having some hard feelings (I wouldn't be pissed if Nash won, but if LeBron or Wade did I would be irate). I respect his game and what he brings, and I wish he could be a Laker.
Posted by: Weave-Man | April 06, 2006 at 04:30 PM
Would guys with the vote on the EastCoast even think about EB as much as guys on the WestCoast think about LBJ/Wade. I hope MVP-vote is given carefully to select ppl in the media.
That said, does the league itself have any say in picking MVP? If they do, its gonna be LBJ. They are promoting him way too much way too early, and would only hurt themselves.
Posted by: ravi | April 06, 2006 at 04:33 PM
BK might seem crazy now, but actually he just bolstered his resume for his dream job: blogger for the Heat.
Posted by: McGarnagle | April 06, 2006 at 04:35 PM
John A,
Within reason, I don't think a bad team effects my judgement, either. After all, Kobe tied for 2nd on my list and his team is fighting for the playoffs. So hopefully, that strikes you as consistent.
Ravi,
As much as I think he's a legit candidate, I'd actually be pretty surprised if LBJ won. I would imagine too many writers don't think he's paid enough dues. Of course, I give Wade a better shot than him, and he's also third year. So I guess my argument sucks. haha
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | April 06, 2006 at 04:37 PM
TC Lakerfan,
I don't want to pile it on, but he made the Dream an MVP candidate? I know you already corrected yourself but I had to say that. I love the Dream!!!!! Dude was soooo sick that I used his moves when I was in the post, and I played point guard!!! To me Dream had to be the best center of our generation. I know people will say Shaq (A lot of people on this blog hate Shaq though) but the Dream used to make Shaq look like he was in junior high school. Damn, i'm getting chills just thinking about it!!!!!!!
PS: I love Sam I AM though. I think he has been one of the most underrated point guards in history. People are talking about how clutch he is now, but dude has been clutch since he was a rookie. I don't know for sure, but I don't think he has ever played in the all-star game (maybe once).
Posted by: Weave-Man | April 06, 2006 at 04:38 PM
How can you not give heavy consideration to the type of teammates a MVP candidate has or don’t have? Why is Steve Nash a heavy favorite in the MVP race? The answer: Nash has taken an above average team into elite status. Look at Kobe. He has taken a lottery bound team into the 7th seed of the western conference. Kobe doesn’t make his teammates that much better than a Nash or James, but the Lakers are winning and quite frankly, overachieving. Before the season even began, many analysts and experts stated that if Kobe and Phil could lead the Lakers into the playoffs, then on that fact alone, they should be MVP and Coach of the Year respectively. If you take away CP3 from the Hornets what do you get? The Hawks. So is CP3 MVP? No, his team is under 500 and will not make the playoffs. Anyways, to me, the MVP is subjective and boils down to a popularity contest and politics. I can live with your Elton Brand choice (I placed him 3rd on my MVP voting last post), but Wade over James? Show Dirk more love. 8th Wonder all day everyday. Am I biased? Heck yeah, but I truly believe Kobe is MVP..GYEAH…
Posted by: fkillah | April 06, 2006 at 04:40 PM
TCLAKER
why does the clips have to win the division to have EB be considered a MVP? does that same rule apply to Kobe then?
EB's always been a solid player, but this year he improved so much. He was never a great rebounder but that's much improved. He put on a great deal of muscle during summer and it's paying off. He improved his jump shot to a point its almost automatic. Also one of the best defender in the league. He's stats this year definitely are MVP numbers.
Posted by: the Lamar Show | April 06, 2006 at 04:41 PM
It's tough to argue against Brand. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him win it. My only complaint is that he's boring to watch. That's stupid though, which is why fans shouldn't vote for MVP. Meanwhile, is this MVP discussion ever going to be over?
Posted by: McGarnagle | April 06, 2006 at 04:49 PM
Elton Brand's been working at it for years and never go the MVP. In any other year, I might go with Brand. But not at the level Kobe is playing right now.
But as everybody else says, your pick is not nearly as controversial as BK's.
Case in point as to why the Media would rather pick on Kobe instead of vaunting him. BK says to hell with Kobe and he gets 400 posts. AK says Kobe's close and picks a reasonable choice. We'll be lucky to get 100 posts in here :)
Controversy sells!
But, that top 5 is pretty nice AK although Elton doesn't really have a chance to get it...he's just not flashy enough to compete with this years crop. I'd also swap around #4 and #5.
Posted by: Brandon | April 06, 2006 at 04:53 PM
You can make a case for like a dozen players so now you have to make a choice. Do you pick the best player of the candidates? (Kobe by far) Or the guy on the team with the best record? (Chauncey Billups)
Personally, I would pick the Kobe because he is, by far, the best player in the league. That is the definition of this years MVP. If you choose not to give it to the best player in the league, then you must give it to Billups. His team has a better record then all the other candidates.
Let me breakdown my logic of why it's too hard to choose any other player...
Nash: He has Phoenix a top team despite losing Amare. And all those no-names are having career years.
Wade: Yea, they lost Shaq, but the team is also a 50-50 team without him.
LeBron: 9 games = MVP? Sure, his numbers are great, but he can't play 'D' worth shit. None of his teammates are having career years because of him either.
Tony Parker: Keeping Spurs the second team even with ailing Duncan and Manu.
Brand: Bringing the Clippers, yes the Clippers, back in to the playoffs with outstanding numbers.
Dirk: 3rd best record with great number as well.
Kidd or Carter: A late surge. Hmm...who's making that possible?
Now my two MVPs....
Billups: Mr. Big Shot runs the team and secures wins by big plays. Oh, by the way his team has the best record.
Kobe: He's the best player in the league on BOTH ends of the floor. Plus, lets not forget the roster or lack there of. And um, half of them are hurt (Profit, Mihm, George was, now Bynum) and we're STILL 7th in the western conference playoffs. Name 1 player that can carry a team into the WESTERN conference with a starting 5 that looks like this: Smush, Cook, Lamar, and Kwame.
See what I mean? You can make a valid case of why ALL those players. Now you should choose between the best player or player on best team. I’d choose the best player. KOBE BRYANT
Posted by: nyla | April 06, 2006 at 05:01 PM
The truth is, this MVP race is so close, you have to wait till the end of the season.
Anything can happen. If the Clippers somehow overtake the Suns for the Division lead, then EB might win it.
If the Lakers win the next seven, while Kobe averages 40 a night, then Ocho might win it.
Same with King James.
But I think right now, it's Nash's to lose.
Posted by: TCLaker | April 06, 2006 at 05:01 PM
Weave-man,
Get off me, man, I already took back what I said!
I know what you mean, though. Akeem the Dream, shake and bake, turn aroun J. Sweet!
Posted by: TCLaker | April 06, 2006 at 05:03 PM
why isn't sonny in here lobbying for Bibby for MVP?
hmmm..........
Posted by: machiavelly | April 06, 2006 at 05:10 PM
the Lamar Show,
The same rule doesn't apply to Kobe, because Kobe's more valuable than EB. (don't need to make this argument)
EB needs that extra "push" of winning the division to be considered.
Posted by: TCLaker | April 06, 2006 at 05:15 PM
TC Laker,
It's all love man!!!! I know you came to your senses, and like I said, Sam I Am is one of the nicest point guards around, so I can agree with most of your first post.
Posted by: Weave-Man | April 06, 2006 at 05:28 PM
Dude, everybody here is stupid. Zach Randolph is the only viable MVP candidate. PERIOD.
Posted by: mannie | April 06, 2006 at 05:55 PM
Machiavelly,
At the rate the Kings are putting it together, we might have candidates (plural) for MVP this time next year. Bibbilicious is playing quite well now, although I doubt he will be among them.
Posted by: sonnybelfast | April 06, 2006 at 06:03 PM
Ak, Are you a Laker fan? I mean a die hard Laker fan?
Posted by: Staples 8 | April 06, 2006 at 06:16 PM
Staples 8,
Truth be told, yeah, I am. I'm a huge fan. I don't write this blog from the perspective, since I was hired to do it as a journalist, not a fan. But on my "own time" I absolutely root Lakers and very seriously. But again, I try not to allow that to color my writing, which isn't easy. I work very hard to separate the two.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | April 06, 2006 at 06:20 PM
Good job AK. My blood pressure didn't even fluctuate.
Not an obvious choice, but your arguments at least hold to your criteria. You get out of the leading candidates and bring in an outsider. Gives us thought on what an MVP could/should be.
BK just wanted to slam Kobe (hopefully unconsciously)and what better way to do it than reward Shaq/Wade.
Posted by: Baywood | April 06, 2006 at 06:49 PM
AK
Are you going to revisit your choice on the 20th?
It's too close to call now. The last games are going to be BIG.
Posted by: Baywood | April 06, 2006 at 06:59 PM
Baywood,
Oh, God no. This whole thing has been too exhausting. I can't go through it again. haha.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | April 06, 2006 at 07:01 PM
INice pick, AK,
You could run for office with that pick. Nobody's elated or postal over a Brand pick. It's kind of a dial tone, which the MVP will be this year, especially on this blog 'cause we've beaten it to death. Strange year for that category. It's the crzy from too much choice.
Posted by: Vman | April 06, 2006 at 07:03 PM
Vman,
"You could run for office with that pick."
That made me laugh. Very funny. I hope it doesn't come off like taking an easy way out. He's honestly just who I'd pick.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | April 06, 2006 at 07:10 PM
Oh man AK,
"You disappointed me" (Godfather?...sorry I'm a girl =) I was hoping (and actually willing to bet you'd pick Lebron. I was hoping to see the 500 posts discounting it. Hehe...just kidding.
Posted by: Faith | April 06, 2006 at 07:22 PM
AK,
Wow I think I'm the exact opposite of everyone on this blog I actually disagree with your pick. I don't think DWade is the MVP, but I agreed with a lot of what BK said.
As for Brand I don't see him as a difference maker. I see him as a Chris Webber type, a guy who puts up a consistent 20 and 10 but can't lift a team up from the doldrums without a solid supporting cast.
Brand played two or three years in Chicago and won about 20 games a year. Granted this was in the post-Jordan era and he had very little help. But then he got to a more talented Clippers team and couldn't get to the playoffs until Sam Cassell and Mobeley were added to the mix.
I put Bramd as the 5th guy on my MVP list because the numbers he's putting up and his team's win merit it. I can't put him any higher than that because I don't think a guy should get MORE help in a season and win the MVP when the team makes a big improvement. It's like when KG won it a few years back, I thought TD should have won it, because he needed the acquisition of Spree and Sam to get over the first round hump.
That's not to say that I don't believe Brand is the "best player" on the team. He clearly is but personally I make the distinction between "best player" and "most valuable." And I don't see him as the most valuable player on his team.
Other times when this scenario has happened is the Shaq and Kobe Lakers. After the first championship season Kobe was the team's best player but Shaq was the most valuable. In Phoenix this year the best player is Shawn Marion but Nash is the most valuable.
Posted by: Xodus | April 06, 2006 at 07:24 PM
AK,
You talk about not penalizing players for having good teammates. But realize that doing so penalizes the players with bad teammates. If the Lakers had a better record than the Clips, would you still pick Brand over Kobe? Kaman and Cassell for sure account for way over the four game difference between the teams.
Breaking down all the theories and arguments- MVP is about accomplishment. Who has accomplished the most as a player this season? I think you should know the answer.
Posted by: C | April 06, 2006 at 07:32 PM
Faith,
I tell ya, women are just hard to please. haha.
Xodus,
Dude, what's up with that? You're usually my boy! (just kidding). Again, like I told someone else, I don't hold Brand's losing past against him, because he never had the benefit of working with guys who'd been around winning before. All the guys EB had played with (Maggette, Miles, young Andre Miller, Q, a young LO) had no previous experience with winning, either. That negated their talent to a large degree. It's kind of like the Hawks now. Lot of pure talent. Nobody with a clue.
Let me put it this way. If the Clips had brought in a couple of young, talented players from similar losing environments (or even a vet like Abdur-Rahim, who'd never played for a winning team) and the team improved this much, I'd buy that argument much more. But the key to Mobley and Cassell isn't even their skills. It's the fact that they can point to "X" and say "Do X and we will win." I don't think you can hold it against Brand for not knowing "X" when he'd never been around it in the first place.
Does that make any sense?
AK
Does
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | April 06, 2006 at 07:46 PM
AK,
Yeah I definitely see your point with that, but the MVP in my definition is someone who is the team leader. He's the guy who rallies the troops and has the knowledge to tell guys to do "X" and everyone buys into it.
In my mind he's got to keep putting up big numbers and win for another year to warrant an MVP. Like my earlier example with Nash, last year Amare was clearly the best player but Nash was the engine that made everything run smoothly. Cassell and Mobley are doing the same thing for Elton Brand in my mind.
I'm not saying that Elton will never merit an MVP, but not this season. Seriously AK your MVP choice offends me, I thought you knew basketball. (just kidding)
Posted by: Xodus | April 06, 2006 at 07:58 PM
C,
How did I penalize Kobe for his teammates? I think I gave Kobe a lot of credit. Like I said, I debated him heavily. And would I award Kobe higher if the Lakers finished higher than the Clips? Depends how much higher, maybe. I honestly don't know, because it didn't happen.
Maybe you and I just define MVP or accomplishment differently.
Thanks for the comment,
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | April 06, 2006 at 08:00 PM
AK,
I think the issue is not that you should add or subtract extra ranking points to players based on how good their teammates are. It's that people have ALREADY factored them in looking at the MVP race in terms of team record. The question is not 'penalizing' them, but whether or not to overrate them. It's safe to say that Chauncey Billups wouldn't even be mentioned if he had less than four allstar caliber teammates playing with him.
The bottom line is that I feel that Kobe is generally underrated because of the lack of support on his team, and not being judged on his performance as a basketball player. I didn't mean to imply that you were explicitly penalizing him.
I guess we do define the award differently -there must be 100 definitions out there depending on which player you favor, and in the end it usually comes down to 'gut feel'.
C
Posted by: C | April 06, 2006 at 09:33 PM
Brand's really talented, really efficient, and really dependable. It would be great to see him finish 6th or 7th. But I don't think he can control the game enough to be considered as the top candidate.
The really funny part to me is seeing all the Kobe-lovers (I like the guy calling them "Brokebacks") not minding this pick as much, because Brand isn't a guy that Kobe can be negatively compared too.
Posted by: Jon | April 06, 2006 at 10:41 PM
DARN! LAKERS LOST! DARN! DARN! MELO is the MAN!
I CAN'T BELIEVE IT! LAKERS LOST! F*CK!
Posted by: shaq_hater | April 06, 2006 at 10:57 PM
safe choice
now on to my anger.... grrrrrrr! stupid loss
Posted by: CBuck | April 06, 2006 at 11:12 PM
C,
I disagree with you about their being 4 All-Stars (legitimate ones) on the Pistons. I think there are 2. Chauncey and I guess Rip. However, the other guys are borderline All-Stars. Rasheed is too inconsistent. Ben Wallace is a poor man's Rodman and not enough to be an All-Star. I really like Tayshaun and could see him developing into an All-Star, but don't think he's there yet.
As for AK, I sort of think he's trying too hard to compensate for being a Laker fan. BK is simply crazy. Wade is rarely double teamed and never tripled, yet people seem to disregard this fact when comparing his performance to Kobe using equal footing.
I feel that more and more Kobe is simply taken for granted. He scored forty again tonight including an absolutely sick game-typing 3 and 1 for a 4 point play needed to tie the game. People just act like he should do it all the time or something. And he should, if he wants to be MVP.
Posted by: Benjamin | April 07, 2006 at 12:12 AM
Jon, broke-backs are not just Kobe fans. They are all meant at all Lakers, not just Kobe's. Get your facts straight.
Posted by: arthas (Tom Brady) | April 07, 2006 at 12:32 AM
Just on time espn has a poll about who is the mvp of the season offering five choises kobe lebron wade nash nowitzki.And guess what its not even close.
Kobe 36%
LeBron 22%
Nash 20%
Nowitzki 11%
Wade 12%
Guess the so called experts will ignore the fact what fans keep on showing on every poll,kobe is the real mvp period.
Posted by: vas | April 07, 2006 at 01:51 AM
Thanks for clarifying that for Arthas Jon.
Posted by: sonnybelfast | April 07, 2006 at 03:20 AM
AK
I thought you wouldnt dwell on statistics.Unfortunately your first few pharagraph speaks of statistics. No matter what you say.It is Braynt who is deserving of the MVP award.But again unfortunately,Even reporters and colunmnist in LA does not agree that he deserves it.I rest my case.
Posted by: lejan | April 07, 2006 at 03:24 AM
I think I'm gonna "Wade" in on this just a taste.
Oh, not the MVP race. We're sick of it. Besides, we all know that Steve, Dirk or Lebron are the most legitimate candidates. What I wanted to talk about was last nights game in Denver.
Nah, think I'll defer. You guys played your hearts out but just weren't up to the task. Don't feel bad. Learn to accept such outcomes. You did the best you could do. Did anyone notice that Kobe didn't dish out an assist until overtime? Sorry, I said no more MVP talk.
Here in NorCal, we're taking a moment of silence for youboy, that was fast.
Posted by: sonnybelfast | April 07, 2006 at 03:45 AM
OK, my top 5:
1. Kobe
2. Elton Brand
3. Chris Paul
4. Tony Parker
5. Chauncy Billups
Posted by: Benjamin | April 07, 2006 at 05:21 AM
I'd like to add Jason Kidd tied for 3rd. He's having a great year.
Posted by: Benjamin | April 07, 2006 at 05:24 AM
I agree with this selection. I predicted this several weeks ago on a thread here. Good job, AK.
Posted by: troy | April 07, 2006 at 06:13 AM
Hey I think the fire's died on this. Mostly because EB isn't as controversial. His work ethic, mostly, makes him deserving.
Wade is a talent, but if Kobe can't win MVP, then Wade hasn't played any better than him. But others will beg to differ and rightly so.
I think with EB, what you need to understand is that the Clipper machine is overhyped due to their history of losing. Look at the standings. Clips record..really is not THAT much better than the Lakes. So if you compare what Kobe and EB have done for their teams and take a look at the rosters...Well, how can you say Kobe is less deserving? As someone mentioned and AK countered, yes EB is the engine..but the engine wouldn't have taken them over the hump without Cassell. Not Cassell and Mobley, or Maggette....Cassell. Only Cassell.
Cassell is the most valuable player on the Clips right now.
Posted by: S.Tan | April 07, 2006 at 08:54 AM
I think with Brands career his team would have to do considerably better to give him the credibility required to propel him to the level for that kind of an award particularly in such a close race.Great season fair pick.
As recently as a week ago I thought the MVP was a stupid award ...no guidelines.I still think it matters too much and being a candidate is the important part,kinda like the oscars...however no I understand why it operates this way.if there were better guidelines for this award there would be far less debate.
Posted by: ranter | April 07, 2006 at 09:15 AM
Wow AK, I really thought you were going with Lebron!!! And had I not watched the Clips-Suns game the other night (cause of the Suns run & gun style/the Clips are BORING), I'd think you were crazy but Elton Brand is a good candidate who often gets overlooked. He's not in my top five but he's a worthy candidate. You've sucked all the venom off the blog, which is cool cause it was getting a little personal!!
I agree with many of my Blog Brothers that when you give EB MVP love you're also throwing in a vote or two for Sam Cassel. I think his veteran leadership has as much to do with the Clippers record than anything else. That winnig record has now brought focus to why they're are winning and its hard to ignore Brand. But Cassel from day one has approached this season with the Clippers with a "This ain't the same old Clippers!!!" attitude. That mindset (along with EB's consistent double double) has taken the Clippers from a "never was" to a "somebody".
After three days of MVP talk I'm tired, we as Laker fans need to turn our focus into winning this Suns game tonight!!
I'll post my feelings on this game shortly, I still can't believe Phil called a play for Luke Walton to hit a game winning three..... or did he?
Posted by: Mitch | April 07, 2006 at 11:06 AM
Mitch,
Glad the venom's gone. That's never been the point of the blog.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | April 07, 2006 at 11:33 AM
I don't spend time on others teams blogs but I just find it increasingly funny that Sonny Belfast makes it his business to contribute to this blog EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! It's amazing how the greatness of Kobe and the Lakers bring out the Haters. I never comment to your posts cause it's an exercise in futility but since when do the Kings have a right to discuss anything in regard to the Lakers...THEY'VE NEVER BEAT THE LAKERS IN A GAME THAT COUNTED!!! NEVER!!! EVER!!
And I take the Brokeback comment as a compliment cause thats what the Lakers do to the Kings every year!!! Every single year of there sad cowpoking, shitkicking existence! Thank God the Maloofs got Artest or you wouldn't be in this conversation. I liken this to the Knicks and Bulls rivalry of the 90's. Yeah the Knicks played the Bulls tough but they never beat Jordan and the Bulls!!!
* Remember, the collapses of the Webber led teams (that was your first mistake thinking a perinial loser was your franchise player)
* Remember, you were a game away from going to the finals with two games to play and you didn't win...I repeat, YOU DIDN'T WIN!!!
So as you relish in your hate of Kobe, realize that the Kings are bottom feeders for the Fundamental and Eva's boyfriend, beyotch!!!
The Kings?! That's like Whoopi Goldberg getting in an argument with Halle Berry over who's better looking!!!
Good luck Clips...let me correct that...enjoy bustin's the Kings ass tonight Clips, you don't need luck cause the Kings always find a way to give it up in the end!!!
Posted by: Mitch | April 07, 2006 at 11:35 AM
Mitch said:
"And I take the Brokeback comment as a compliment"
This is good to hear. The name fits so much better.
He went on to say:
"I never comment to your posts cause it's an exercise in futility"
I don't get it. Why then did you go and do exactly what you said you never do? You may be a bit confused.
And then you said:
"Thank God the Maloofs got Artest or you wouldn't be in this conversation"
I'll take that as an 'I'm glad you're here' Thank you.
Finally, you muttered:
"Remember, you were a game away from going to the finals with two games to play and you didn't win?"
Oh yes. You're right. We didn't win. The referees did. Must have been a conspiracy. No, it was global warming. I think I'm starting to sound like a Brokebacker. That would be you.
Posted by: sonnybelfast | April 07, 2006 at 01:21 PM
LET'S JUST SEE WHICH PLAYER PERFORMS BETTER WHEN IT'S TIME FOR PLAYOFFS: KOBE OR BRAND.
Posted by: Anonymous | April 09, 2006 at 07:40 AM
Go Lakers and Mamba rules.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2411683
The link gives ESPN's MVP votes, notice a pattern any one? Let me explain,
1. Any one who has pro basketball experience in one form or other think its the Mamba
2. Any one who plays pickup ball thinks its Lebron
3. Any one who should do nothing more than hang out in front of team offices for trade and injury news think its Nash.
Marc Stein writes columns about "basketball" and gets paid for it, man this country is the land of oppurtunities.
siva
Posted by: siva | April 21, 2006 at 10:05 AM