yeah this game was ugly, best word to descripe it...i still cant believe how sasha let deron williams drive all the way to the basket like that...i dont really think wafer did that bad tho, yeah he was 3 for nine but two of them we're blown layups, so from what i remember he only missed two jumpshots ( i may be wrong), i agree that luke has been playin very bad these last few games, i remember countin at least 3 times he dribbled into traffic and turned it over, smush did the same...the only bright spots tonight we're lamar's O and kwames D...now if only kwame can hold onto the ball and make some layups...but i think thats asking too much from a 23 year old first round pick...or is it?...

go lakers

dear ugliness,

i have to chime in here...

lamar was playing great tonight !!!
kwame played great post D !!!

but those turnovers... dammit...
and settling for jumpers on the fastbreak
instead of attacking the basket !!! double-dammit !!!

anyways... okay... i vented... i feel better...

hopefully we can stop this losing streak on friday
when kobe comes back !!!

I was completely sick after watching that game. Phil Jackson was right about the current team. "Losers". Not to say that these individuals aren't winners, but together they absolutely suck. Not only did they hand over an 8 point lead, they made it an 11 point deficit late in the game. Thank God for the Orange Bowl. Not the mark of a champion. Not even the mark of a decent college team. They all seemed so lost on where to go on D and very hesitant. AGAINST UTAH!!!

I love that we've taken Kobe out of the equation because a win OR loss would leave us with more what-ifs. "I hate Kobe for this or that. He should always be there to win the game." It just seems that a drastic change is necessary. Just don't get rid of Bynum - he is the future. However, I look at LO and his inability to rise as a team leader in KB8s absence. He had good individual games but he doesn’t have the ability to space the team or setup the offense. I'm having a harder time supporting him. It hurts to get rid of any Lakers, but if that's the way we get Artest, so be it. We have a valued ballplayer in LO to get what we need. I've read a lot of trash talking about bringing Artest here and I've been on the fence. This far into the season, I'm seeing a team that needs a roster and lineup change to fix it. Again, I KNOW that Artest wants to play in the east and he's said he will immediately go to the east after 2 years. But we can use him as a stepping stone to show our younger players tougher defense. He has great experience. Maybe his hip-hop, rebounding, wanna-be-a-scorer mentality will change after WINNING with Kobe. I know he was involved in the Palace Malay of last year. But, he TRIED to walk away from Ben Wallace after getting a checked in the throat?!?! He was TRYING to be the bigger man, just to have a DEE-TROIT IDI-OT throw a beer on him. I don't condone the brawl, but I agree with Ronnie of late. He needs a new start and we need to gain a new perspective of tougher D. Letting the visitors drive the lane for layups doesn’t send much of a message that you’re a tough team. I can’t stand Fat-A-Shaq, but at least you knew he would floor the opposition if they drove on him. This team (Lamar included) allows easy layups because they can’t get that 5th foul. A 5th foul because the don’t play defense in the first place and get early reach fouls. I’m now officially campaigning for Ronnie. TURIAF AND ARTEST!!! Ron & Ron for the Lake Show!!!

OK after watching tonight's game I can see why Kobe takes 30 shots a game. My goodness, for all the things that I've said about Kobe, he really is carrying this team. I'm amazed after tonight that they've even won 15 games. I think after tonight the rest of the Lakers should have a new found respect for Kobe and why he does what he does and try to understand it from his perspective. Even though he does take 30 shots he still makes everyone around him better. I don't want to hear that crap about him not passing the ball not making his teammates better. When he's on the floor he instantly makes them better with his presence.

Tonight's game showed us some positives; okay that's if your a glass-half full type person...Odom's offensive game was great and Kwame's post D was on point. But let's be realist, this team w/o Kobe I don't think could beat the Atlanta Hawks. Dfense was pitiful at times. At least overall it was just bad, I agree that a good offensive team would have had a field day on the Lakers today. It's very frustrating. We need Phil to start earning all that money he's getting. He can make better decisions in crunch time, at least he use to in season's past. The 5 and 1 roadtrip and the blowout of Dallas were't illusions. This team has that upside, we need Phil to get that potential out. He will, we all have to be patient....Go Lakers!

WE MISS YOU KOBE!!!!! NOW I KNOW WHY YOU SHOOT SO MUCH. YOU WERE RIGHT I WAS WRONG. GO DOWN SHOOTING BROTHER , WONT SAY ANOTHER WORD ABOUT IT THIS SEASON. HEY MITCH!!NICE TEAM YOU PUT TOGETHER. MAKE THE TRADE WE NEED SOMETHING!!!!TRY TO KEEP L.O. IF YOU CAN. BUT YOU PROBABLY WILL MESS THAT UP TOO. MR BUSS PLEASE FIRE HIM!!! WE NEED SOMEONE , WHO WILL NOT MESS NEXT YEAR UP TOO!! THANKS PHIL JACKSON!

Wow, this game really disappointed me! I bought into some of the Kobe-hater crap about this Laker team talent is being smothered by selfish Kobe. This game shows us all what we really have. The 2 games w/o Kobe were so inconsistent for this Laker team. One guy in double figures, WOW! The next highest scorers coming from the bench. Sad! Phil said that the guy's had 30 extra shots. Cookie made out like all those guys were professionals and could make good use of those shots. Kobe, I understand now...make use of those 30 shots please!

I'll second BK's Artest sentiments, and take it one step further. I would absolutely NOT include Bynum, along with LO (and Kobe, obviously). Period. Anybody else, sure, why not? Take a chance, I guess. I don't think it'll make them championship material, even with LO still on board. But at the same time, it won't make them any worse, unless Artest goes goony bird on them (which will at least make them far more entertaining while they suck). But to trade anyone remotely considered part of the future (at this point, basically the three guys I mentioned) would be more insane than the man they'd be trading them for. As BK said, even if LO isn't the right fit, he could be flipped for a quality player more dependable than Ron Ron.

Personally, I think the only teams that should debate taking on Artest are San Antonio, Detroit, maybe Phoenix, maybe Dallas, and maybe Miami. Front runners, or teams realistically a player away. Either way, ones that could still win if it goes bad. Kinda like when the 2001 Lakers took on J.R. Rider, knowing they could bench him if he became an idiot (which he eventually did, and they deactivated him for the playoffs). If he had happened to help out, bonus. But they were good enough that Rider didn't matter one way or the other. Those are the kind of teams that should think about Artest, unless it involves getting him for nothing.

Otherwise, why bother, unless you're Toronto and hoping a freak show might attract a crowd? If you're a "B" team (and let's be honest, purple and gold hearts aside, that's what the Lakers currently are), Artest could make you a B+, maybe even an A- on certain days. But he could just as easily take you down to a C-/D+ through his lunacy. Think about what happens if he goes off the deep end (hardly out of the question), has to be deactivated, and the Lakers don't even have Odom anymore. They're beyond crappy. And if you think Kobe doesn't have patience for his teammates now, wait until you see him try to babysit this nutball.

Any player the Lakers think could be around after 2007 should absolutely be off-limits when it comes to getting Artest.

AK

LO is showing exactly what he really is these last couple games. A good role player. Nothing more, not even a #2 option. I'd take Kwame, Smush or Mihm for a #2 option over Odom. He doesn't play with ANY killer instinct, doesn't take advantage of mismatches, and settles for way too many jumpers/3Pt shots.
Ron Artest needs to buy a home in LA, because this is where he belongs. He can truely help this team. I'd rather have a guy who is twice as good as Odom on BOTH ends of the floor even if he is a so-called "headcase". Phil can handle this guy. From what i've been hearing the front runners are Denver, Golden State, Lakers.

BK & AK
You guys are absolutely right. I'm all for going for Artest but you CANNOT jeopordize the future of the team to get him. These last 2 games have clearly shown that Lamar is not a leader for this team or any other team. Its just not the way he plays the game. If we can get artest and keep Odom it will be of enormous benefit to the team and to Lamar. LO is one of the best third options you could possibly have on a team. He gets boards, he gets his 10-15pts and he knows how to pass. Even with Artest his Rebs/Ast numbers wont drop (his scoring might) but he is a great asset to have when you've got 2 all stars in the team. Say what you want about RonRon but the guy plays great D and if you can get 15-20 from him and 10-15 from LO thats about 30pts that Kobe doesnt have to score all by himself. I love our players but lets face it this roster will struggle to make the playoffs. Remember its an 82 game season, there will be injuries somewhere along the line (remember '05)that this team is not equipped to deal with. God forbid if anything happens to Kobe WE ARE SCREWED. Anyone we can get would be a great help - they gotta make a run at Ron Ron. So what if he leaves in 2 yrs. By then we will have the cap space to hopefully attract some good help.

keep odom, reduce expectations for kwame.

love odom and his ability to create on offense, but make no mistake, odom is no pippen--on defense. lamar has the athletic ability but isn't playing defense with intensity like he was earlier in the season. odom doesn't plug the lane the way scottie used to on help defense, so the team needs to go get a shot blocker to stop teams from penetrating (mihm ain't that guy).

as much as i think kwame could be the one to play center because of his defense, his small hands are hurting his play more than any confidence issues--has anyone ever seen him dunk with one hand? there's a reason for that. unfortunately, he doesn't look like he has much upside but at 7 foot 275 can still be a solid defensive center role player, not unlike jason collins on the nets. at best he can become a ben wallace, but he doensn't have the hands. but look at kwame's d on shaq in the christmas game and you'll see a solid defensive player. then again, if he couldn't learn low post moves from patrick ewing (who coached him in dc) then he's either a slow learner or it just ain't happening...

artest would be a mistake if it costs odom. but if they can give up next years number one, walton and kwame it would be worth it ...

What if Lebron James or Dwayne Wade played with this squad? I keep hearing crap about how lebron makes his teammates better and kobe is a ballhog but that is because their teammates are good already. You cant compare Smush to Damon, or Ilgauskus to Brown. Lets get serious kb is possibly one of the best in the league and the fact that they are one game instead of 10 under.500 proves my point. LO still sucks and we need Mitch to start making some trades before kobe wears out playing with these bums.

Wow! if anyone ever wondered how much of a difference kobe makes they should've watched last night's game. Lakers were fumbling passes, looked lost in the triangle and left the opponent open for easy jumpers. it was tough to watch along with utah playing the way they do, it was almost laugable.

anyways, at least Odom showed he could score. i totally don't think we need artest on this team. what we really need is someone who can totally score in the post. that's supposed to be kwame but at least he's playing some D. if we can get an inside scorer plus kobe we can really play some in to out and out to in b-ball and really spread the opponent's defense. keep lamar as a rebounder and second outside threat to spread out the offense even more. but a player like ron artest with his abilities isn't what this laker team needs.

if nothing else, the lakers need to start making their free throws. they must be below .500 as a team this season. the last 5 games before last night's utah game were close and winnable had they made more free throws. they're FREE THROWS!! THE CLOCK ISN'T RUNNING. THERE'S NO ONE GUARDING YOU AND YOU GET A CHANCE TO MAKE IT FOR EACH ONE.

Ugh. Mongo no like.

Kobe, Lamar, and Bynum are untradeable.

I like the team right now (meaning this is a team I can root for, easily), however, something is missing.

I do not think that missing piece is Ron Artest. Adding Ron Artest would be like taking out the gall bladder of someone with gallstones and then replacing it with a big hunk of cancer. Ron Artest is cancer.

That much said, something is wrong. It may not entirely be the players fault.

Does anyone remember how well the Lakers were playing before this five game slide? What happened?

Kobe's, once again, taking too many ill-advised shots.
Too often the rest of the team is playing hesitantly, often looking like deer caught in headlights.

This shouldn't be happening. To be honest with everyone, some of this must rest on Phil's shoulder's. With such a young team, the environment of confidence and mutual trust must originate from Phil. Phil creates the team dynamic. He's the coach. He's the boss.

I fear that Phil's ego may be intimidating as much as Kobe's can... but what do I know.

I can just make guesses based upon what I see.

FINALLY!!!! (For now)

Sign Ronny Turiaf now!

Let him get in shape playing a couple of minutes for the Lakers each night!

I don't see why he is still up in Yakima! He needs to be down here working out with his team!

BK and AK--

I have to disagree with your assesments. first, why in the name of HADES would detroit or san antonio make any type of move right now, much less adding a potentially violatile person to the mix of a team already destined for the championship??? Ron Ron could add almost nothing to these two teams. neither of them suffer on the defensive end and SA tends to have offensive lapses, but you don't bring in someone like Artest just to score you a few more points.

we are quick to label Artest as crazy as hell, but in all seriousness, he was not a problem this year. he made his statement to the press, but he did not flame on anyone and did not quit playing...in fact, he was fantastic when he was on the floor. he was not a technical foul machine, no unnecessary scraps. and when he thought about his error, he apologized and tried to make amends. for those of you who are quick to jump to kobe's defense for PAST transgressions that he is seemingly rectifying, it is baffling why you don't extend the same courtesy to this guy.

next, no one seems to write that Ron Ron's incentive to play well here is HUGE. he is severely underpaid at 6.5 mill a year, but teams now will be leary to sign the guy for much more until they can assess his play and stability. Guys playing for contracts tend to be a lot more productive!!

Secondly, and perhaps secondary is that he would be here for about 2 years, which is pretty much as far into the future as the Lakers wanted to committ to anyone not named Kobe. If he does well, great...if not, adios.

Thirdly, you are paying PJ a lot of jack to coach...so see if he can coach Artest. if Phil thinks he can rehab this kid (and obviously he does think that), who are we to disagree. between phil and everyone one this board, we have 9 rings...and we have 0!!

need i say this...our defense is an abomination w/o kobe. but kobe is gonna wear down soon as it is obvious he is gonna have to put this team on his back for them to go anywhere. wouldn't you like to steal him some valuable minutes on the bench, especially with the Lakers facing back-to-backs. he doesn't get that now b/c the lakers don't have a TRUE second option. Ron brings that!!

Artest is a commodity in this league...a scorer and a defensive player. his baggage is well worth the Lakers risk, b/c the Lakers, as one pointed out, are a B team(actually, more like a C team). Being a B team gets you squarely into the playoffs and depending on your matchup (please, Dallas in the first round), Ron could be the difference in you getting further. if you don't make the move, it's not sure that you'll make the playoffs. the trade is a no-brainer IMO!@

I didn’t catch the game last night but watched highlights and obviously read the re-cap here on this blog. From what it sounds like this team is performing just the way I thought they would. I thought at the beginning of the season they would play in approximately 10 game spurts. We saw them start the season 5-8 and then they went on the run with the 5-1 road trip and now we see them drop 5 in a row. I don’t want to say I’m not worried, but I do think they will hit an up swing here soon. Having Kobe return is obviously good place to start and let’s be honest here, the kid is going to come out blazing. My hopes are this team ends the season on one of their up swings. We have the last six at home (which hasn’t been so kind so far) and I think we’ll be right there in the chase for a playoff spot, and that’s what everyone wanted before the season began.

As for the question in regards to going after Artest and whether or not to put Lamar on the block, I say NO. I would also make sure Bynum is not included. As desperate as some of us feel right now, we have lost 5 in a row and the team is right in the hunt for the playoffs. I think selling out our future for what AK and BK are absolutely right on about, a #5 seed at best, would be a HUGE mistake. I really like LO’s game, second, third, tenth option or whatever, but he is a piece to a team and the rest of those pieces, besides the biggest one are pretty shaky right now. If we could get Artest for DG and spare parts I’m all for it. With Kobe, LO, and Artest we could do some damage, but Kobe and Artest would put us just slightly better than what we are now and the risk involved in that would greatly outweigh the reward.

I think we should all get used to this group of players. We saw some potential on that 5-1 road trip and that spoiled the hell out of us. We do have the potential to be a 6-8 seed and in the next two years with a bit more financial flexibility and some experience under Bynum’s and the rest of the young squad’s belts we will be moving back into that upper tier of teams. Thank god we’re not the Bulls or the Celts (or god help us the Knicks) where we had so much success and then fell so far. When we all start reaching for the panic button, do what I do, watch a Knicks game and then go look at their payroll and player contracts. It always puts a smile on my face.

GO LAKERS!!!

Brokli (and like BK before me, I have to point out, great handle),

I'll say it again, teams like SA and Detroit are the perfect takers for Artest. Because they got nothing to lose. That's exactly the reason. They can only gain. If Artest is "volatile," as you put, then they bench him and move on. Because they're that good. Artest would only make them better, and can't be a very damaging distraction. Mind you, they shouldn't give up anybody valuable, either.

You're also leaving out quite a bit of info when it comes to what Artest did. He didn't go to counseling in the offseason, as the team asked. He kept making comments that weren't contrite about the brawl, basically saying, "I probably wouldn't do it again, but no promises." And then he turned his back on a team, along with Bird and Donnie Walsh, all of whom had been VERY publicly supportive of him over the last couple seasons he wrecked. He asked for time off to promote a CD (granted, the CD apparently needed all the help it could get, but still...) Plus, the season before the brawl, he had some flare ups. So this amounts to a little more than making one inflamatory trade statement (which he took back a week later, further showing his instability).

As far as letting go of "PAST transgressions" go, as you put it... dude, this was, like, a MONTH ago. It's not like everything happened in 1998 and people need to let go. It's hardly ancient history. We're talking about a steady spiraling of events. It's a pattern. And it's recent.

Again, if they can get the guy for very little, sure, pull the trigger. But giving up Odom for Artest will make the whole thing a wash, as they lose Odom's dimes, rebounds, and 15 points to gain Artest's 20. Plus, Odom's ability to run the offense.

Could PJ control Artest? Yeah, probably. Certainly better than 50/50. I'm just saying, it ain't worth giving up anyone of value to prove it, since I don't think they'll win a title even WITH Kobe, LO and Artest, much less just with Kobe and Artest.

Can Ron play? Yeah. Absolutely. Love his game. But he can't put the Lakers over the top for legit title chances by himself. No perimeter player could, really. The only "one player" scenario that could maybe make that happen would be adding a serious big man: KG, Duncan, Amare, etc. But even then, the team's overall lack of talent would probably still cancel it out. Simply put, we're much more than a player away in this race.

Thanks for the comment, man. I'm sure a response is coming.

AK

Lakers waited til mid-March last year to crash and burn. This year they are getting started early. How does this team go from a 5-1 road trip to this? Until they get some quality players to surround #8 with, afraid we will see more of the same, this year and next. Time to make a trade Mitch. Maybe Phil is trying to say same thing, by exposing these players for the frauds they are. They can't compete at a high level, and can't win close games. Pathetic.

AK,

Just a response to your ending comments to Brokli.

You were saying that Artest, Kobe, and Odom would not be enough to win a title, that we'd need a big man.

I was just wondering your thoughts on how you think the Mike / Pip's Bulls Teams would do against the competition today. (pistions, spurs, miami... etc..)
I'm just bringing this up because I don't re-call those Bulls Championship teams having a dominant big...

Just wondering your thoughts...
and happy new year to you and you bro...
love this blog...

go lakes...

AK,

Before I go on my rant, let me just say that I am Phil's number one supporter... but!

You say that Phil can probably control Artest, I don't think its a risk worth taking.

Right now, it doesn't seem that he can control his team's hesitancy or Kobe's inconsistent distrust of his fellow players.

Kobe and the Lakers are reasonable players compared to Artest. If Phil wants a challenge, he should make sure the unfinished business he has at hand is taken care of, before taking on a nutcase like Artest.

You cannot blame the coaching staff from Phil, three coaches plus specialists like Kareem, Scotty and Hodges. They are doing their job to the fullest but they don't play the game. How can you teach Kwame and Chris to hold on the ball and do the pivot like any good center, if they have limited abilities? You learn these techniques when playing ball in the grade school. How about these "Off and On" kids like; Smush, Cookie and Sasha, they could run a good offense, a once-in-a-while defense then, do a sleepover and cakewalk on the last few minutes. And the court general (supposed to be), Lamar Odom who moves like Magic and Scotty "combined" but I think this guy also sleeps and disappears while playing. Well, what kind of motivation and coaching can you do with this bunch of immature professionals. We have a new kobe-liked player who is not Kobe, I'm referring to the new kid in the block - Von Wafer! He's a specialist shooter with a dong-dung-clank around the ring. As a basketball player, after shooting you know when you missed a shot, you have an idea where the ball would be falling and at least make an attempt to rebound! Well, the five Laker clowns on the court made a lot of running around on the 3rd quarter, fastbreaks, lay ups, 3 point shooting without any results, as if they were in high school playing ball in the gym. How about the veteran named Devean George? How old are you now with the Lakers? Luke Walton, you're no longer rookies...why can't you not figure out how to outwit Kirilengco with his blocked shots. Fool me twice I'm a fool. Well, you have been fooled seven times, don't you know how to fake or screen this guy? Hey, by criticizing, it doesn't mean we don't love and care for the Lakers. We are deciples of Chick Hearns and Jerry West. They are both gone now (literally) but we remember what Chick used to say when you're an underachiever and Jerry showed us how to be a good clutch shooter. We have seen the greatest Lakers from Mikan, Kareem, Wilt, Baylor, Magic, Worthy and Scott etc. include here Shaq, Horry and Kobe they never failed their fans when they represented the Lakers. I hope by wearing that jersey with a Laker emblem, you guys should be professionals enough and do the job to the best of your abilities or else just quit pretending to be a Laker! A Laker is a quality brand like Yankees, Celtics and Cowboys. If you are not qualified then, don't misrepresent it.

AK,

thanks for taking the time to respond.

by past transgressions, i was referring mainly to what happened last year. as i stated earlier, i do not believe what Ron did this year was worth the flak he is getting. many superstars pout and many talk about wanting to leave. what would be worse, him asking to leave or taking the Vince Carter route of pouting, "playing" half-assed and flaming everyone to try to get out of a situation? i respect Ron more for what he did. but he gets a bad rap b/c he did have peculiar ways last year. VC is considered reborn now, but what he did was more of an abomination to me.

about him disrespecting the Pacers front office...Every decision made by the front office is a "business decision", no more, no less. They "stood" by artest, in my estimation, b/c they had little other choice. he was a severely underpaid All-star and was suspended for the year. they couldn't trade him then. he was signed through 2007(correct if i'm wrong on that) @ 6.5 per. and they didn't have to pay him for the year. i'm not sure what everyone believes the alternative was to standing behind him. cut him? distance yourself and screw yourself in a possible trade? give away a person of his capabilities for a song?

next, i still don't understand why you insist that SA and Det would benefit from taking him. it's like doing extra credit work when you already have an A+ in the class. these 2 teams would no doubt have to trade someone to get Ron, then you have subtracted from a squad that should play for the championship, to get an unknown commodity. and Indy won't give Ron away...you're gonna have to give them something enticing in return. SA and Det are cohesive units which is why they are the best teams...interrupting that for a player that neither really needs is curious at best (not to mention Indy would never trade him to a true east coast contender--but that wasn't the issue as we both knew that).

unlike most though, i am not committed on the trade if it involves LO (most have a definite opinion, whether yea or nay). his rebounds are key, but RA can get you double-digit boards. his assists are impressive, but in the end, you have to score more than the other team. even though LO scores 16 a game, it's the "quiet" sort of scoring that really doesn't affect the game. when you need "the basket", he is usually nowhere to be found. his all around game is impressive, but in the end, where does it get you?

next, as i said before, Kobe simply can't handle it all by himself. it was painful watching him with 8 minutes to go in the Miami game. his tank was clearly on empty. who can we lean on when that happens?

The Lakers are at a point where they need to do something. Do you think the Lakers are willing to commit to LO and his 11.5 mil for a few years down the road? If not, then he is as expendable as anyone else not named Kobe. I think Ron would help this team immensely. now this isn't the only trade/roster move that can be made. I would advocate the signing of a dead eye 3 point shooter and keeping the roster as it is(are we sure we can't beg reggie miller out of retirement). but in the absence of an enlightened front office, do we just sit here and hope Kobe can shoot us into the playoffs or do we make moves to ensure that on the days Kobe can't shoot us to a victory, someone else on the court can?

It's pretty simple why any of this is happening. All you have to do is look at it rationally, and not as a fan, that shouldn't be too hard to do this season, or last for that matter.

We are rebuilding, which means Dr. Buss is trying to make as much money as he can without spending any until the time is right, i.e, big Chinese Center becomes free agent.

So get use to the losing my friends. Get used to Nilla Wafer jacking up crap, Chris Mini-Mihm giving you just that, Smush Parker's cute name, Lamarr Odom's point guard impression, get used to it.

If anybody thinks this team is going anywhere your sadly mistaken, your season is shot, thanks to your number 8. You got rid of your team when you traded Shaq(by the say the best player in the NBA) so all your Laker fans quit crying, you got what you wanted (kobe) Yuk.... Have a great season, see you at the playoffs, oh wait no I won't. ha ha