"Steven" vs. Just About Everyone Else
Kobe may have been off the court and under house arrest during Elbow-gate, but his presence has been felt in the blogosphere stronger than ever. In particular, what his presence (or lack thereof) means to the team. Obviously, there isn't a single sane argument that the team, as currently constructed, is actually better with Kobe off the court. We can all agree on this. But with Kobe suspended, it's been easier to visualize the team with another superstar in his place. And nobody's been more vocal about this than "Steven." The only screams more constant and loud than his "trade Kobe for LeBron" during the last 48-72 hours were mine as I yelled at the TV last night for somebody to tackle Vince Young. As many of you have brought up, the Cavs ain't trading LeBron, so it's a somewhat silly idea to harp on. And I agree, unless something truly bizarre transpires, there's no way in hell Cleveland does it.
But for the sake of argument, let's just say Danny Ferry woke up this morning and decided Kobe would fit his squad's makeup better than LeBron. And y'all are Mitch Kupchak. Your cell rings, and it's Ferry on the other line, offering Kobe for LeBron. Straight up. Forget that the salaries don't currently match. Let's just say they do. And every other particular is in line, too.
Would you do it?
Now, in making this decision, I want you to think about it like a GM, and not a Lakers fan. Remember, you're Kupchak, not you in a bar, cheering on L.A. while donning Kobe's jersey and your own pair of black tights. You gotta remove that side of yourself. Like Michael Corleone said before agreeing to kill McCluskey, "It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business." An opportunity to trade a legit superstar for another legit superstar. Would you do it?
For me, it's a no brainer.
In a split nano-second.
Now before everyone starts accusing me of being blasphemous, a "hater," or actually "Steven" writing under AK's name, calm down and listen. I'm not taking anything away from Kobe's greatness. Kobe's the shizzle. He's got a few flaws (what player doesn't?), but he's a pretty damn good player. If he's not the best perimeter player in the game, he's in the top 3, hands down. Top 10 in the league, period. But this is about practicality and the future. LeBron just turned 21. He's 6 years younger than Kobe. And really good. Even if you don't think he's as good as Kobe (and that argument can go either way, depending on how you define "better), it's not ridiculous to say he couldn't end up that good in 6 years... when Kobe will be 33. Kobe may be incredible, but he can't take Father Time to the hole. If given the opportunity to do it, you'd be insane not jump on it. Same with a one for one D-Wade swap, and not just because the prospect of putting Kobe and Shaq back on the same team is too entertaining to pass up. Currently better than Kobe or not, Wade is a sick player, with no real weaknesses. And he's 4 years younger. You don't let that prospect slip through your fingers.
For that matter, there are two (and probably only two) other players I'd trade Kobe straight up for: KG and Duncan (let me say right now, if you don't trade Kobe for TD, you're an absolute idiot). Actually, if Amare's knee heals up good, he's on that list, too. So there you have it. Those 5 are the only definite, "you gotta pull the trigger guys," in my mind. There are a couple more who would be tempting (Jermaine O'Neal, Dwight Howard), but I can't say FOR SURE I'd do it. And again, I'm giving Kobe a lot of respect. To say there are only 5 guys in the league right now worth Kobe's weight means something. But if you put your purple and gold bias aside, I think those five are impossible not to grab.
If you don't agree, which I expect many of you don't, let's hear it. But I want actual reasons. Not "Kobe's the man!" or "Kobe rules!" Frankly, so do the others. I don't wanna hear "Kobe's the face of the Lakers." That's not a valid objection. Shaq was once the face, too, even with #8 alongside him. Teams change. It's part of the game. Throw out some actual reasons, ones that have nothing to do with the posters on your wall, but with basketball. Why does it not make sense from a purely hoops perspective?
AK
Kobe for LeBron: No
Kobe is a proven champion. He has proven time and again his capabilities in crunch time of the biggest games. How many times did Hack-a-Shaq work in those days? As I recall, very few times. Kobe was there to pickup the slack. He has proven time and again that his heart and will are second to none.
Maybe LeBron will prove these things as well, but is it worth the risk? If you ask me, this team has taken enough risks for the moment. Kobe is a bankable asset on the floor. Stick with him.
J-
Posted by: johnnyb | January 06, 2006 at 12:31 PM
kobe for anyone else?
Hell no. I would never trade kobe for anyone. I keep reading these blogs and its like everyone has this love hate relationship with kobe. Just think what it must be like in his shoes. He's the only guy on the team who will actually shoot the ball w/ confidence. He's the only one who really goes to the rim with athority. Odom has the skills but mentally he doesn't seem himself as a 20 plus points a nite guy. All you have to do is look at the players eyes while they are playing. That tells the whole story. I think that by the end of the year they are going to be in the playoffs. Remember that coach jackson has a 3 year deal so you know that by that 3rd year this team is going to be pretty damn dangerous (yes i'm making that prediction).
Posted by: Mr. Cobos | January 06, 2006 at 01:15 PM
Lebron for Kobe:
Championships? Kobe 3 - Lebron 0
Age? Kobe 27 - Lebron 21
6 years younger ain't enough to make me pull the trigger when the cat we have now has 3 championships...period.
Posted by: Imanuel | January 06, 2006 at 01:52 PM
I'm gonna post this but I know no one will read it cause i'm so far down the list. First of all this is a great question, and I do like the opinions I have read.... but let's be real Kobe Bryant is the best player in the league period. People like to say best "perimiter player" but that's bull!! How many times will you see the ball in a big man's hands at the end of a game? How many game winning shots has Shaq,Amare,TD, or even KG taken? You can't be the best in the league if your team can't look for you at the end of the game.
Kobe for Lebron is a very tempting offer but I'll choose Kobe for defense alone. AK you said in one of your post that Kobe was good but not that good...are you crazy!!!! How many other big time scoring players shut down (and I mean shut down) the other teams star. Matter of fact how many other scorers will even guard the other teams best player? You can't say TD cause he's scared of Shaq. (It's true TD hardly ever guarded Shaq when they played) The only player I would say does this sometimes is KG. You can tell he loves to guard TD.
Wade is a nice player but I don't think he'll ever lead a team to a championship by himself. I say this because earlier in the season when Shaq was hurt and he was the leader, the Heat and the Lakers had identical records. Now some people would say that makes him and Kobe even but look at the Heats roster, and look at the Lakers roster. There's no way with all the talent on the Heat squad they should have the same record as the Lakers. If Kobe had the same players the Heat does w/o Shaq I guarantee you there would be no talk about not making the playoffs.
Posted by: Asaad Weaver | January 06, 2006 at 07:47 PM
Assad
I never said Kobe wasn't a good defender. I actually said he is a good defender, just not as good as Coop. And that's not an inflammatory statement. 95% of the league over the last 20 years wasn't as good a defender as Coop, either. So be it. Kobe's a very good defender, as I actually did acknowledge. But until he wins a DPOY title, he simply can't compare to Coop. That's a fair, "non-hating" statement.
Thanks for the comment and the compliment about the post topic. I appreciate it.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 06, 2006 at 11:37 PM
I know you think Kobe is a good defender but I just wasn't sure how good a defender you thought he was. Honestly I didn't see much of Coop living on the east coast and being only 22 but I'll take an older Lakers fans word for it. I don't like to throw around the word hater, so you won't see a post from me saying you or anyone else is a hater unless it is actually waranted. I don't think Kobe will ever win DPOY because too many people don't appreciate what he does on the defensive end.
Posted by: Asaad Weaver | January 07, 2006 at 08:24 AM
Asaad,
In looking at my original post, I can see why you thought I wasn't as impressed by Kobe's D. But I definitely think he's good at it. Again, perhaps not Coop, but that's hardly an insult. Really, I was trying to emphasize the point that Wade's actually a good defender, more than anything else. I don't know where the rumor that he can't D up began, but it's simply not true.
I also appreciate you not throwing the "hater" around too liberally. I think many folks often get a little oversensitive, basically giving anyone that label if they don't say Kobe walks on water. Then again, that's part of being loyal fans: Always having your star's back, even if it's not necessary.
Thanks for the comments, Asaad.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 07, 2006 at 10:29 AM
All of the hypothetical trades sound very interesting. Almost everybody has the same opinions. But none of ya’ll, including you AK, even mention the reigning MVP, Steve Nash. Forget TD, KG, LB, DW. If you want a player that will make the team and everybody else better, then a player dishing out 12 to 20 dimes per game will make a team better. Phoenix couldn’t even make the playoffs b4 Steve Nash. I mean, from a non-playoff team to Western Conf Final contender. I’m not a Phoenix fan, but I am a true hardcore Lakers fan. Steve Nash will bring the old Showtime back.
In contrary, if Phil Jackson said he can win a championship with Kobe Bryant (interview with Chris Meyers), forget what I or you guys think. I’m with PJ all the way.
Posted by: willn2win | January 09, 2006 at 03:48 PM
kobe for wade? anybody that would suggest that must be crazy!! the man (wade) is 3 for 33 from the three point line and as a matter of fact hasn't hit 30 threes in his 3 year career. detroit proved that all you have to do is back off wade late in games because his jumper is suspect. if i remember correctly he was 0 for 6 with four turnovers in the 4th quarter in game 7 against detroit.
t-mac can't stay healthy. so forget him.
garnett: is it just me or did garnett's teams get bounced from the playoffs in the first round for 7 straight years?
shaq: 360 lbs and declining. does he even require constant double teams anymore. he's at 18 and 9 this year on pace for career lows. i guess that was 100 million well spent miami.
Posted by: cyicut2 | January 16, 2006 at 08:33 AM
AK,
99% of the league in the last 20 years hasn't been as good as Coop on defense. 95%? 95%? Do the man justice!
Posted by: Jon Kavulic | January 16, 2006 at 08:55 AM
You guys keep on harping about Lebron's lack of D but how about Kobe's lack of passing? Magic was no better than Lebron but he is among the greatest ever. I see Lebron bringing out the best among the Lakers and I see the Lakers now wishing Kobe falls flat on his face. Kobe has major character flaws, Lebron is the clean-living guy who has shown so much maturity for a guy so young. Of course, the conspiracy theorists are still insisting that Lebron is really 25 - they just dread the thought of what a monster Lebron will be once he matures some more.
Posted by: chito sagana | January 17, 2006 at 01:29 AM
I can’t believe people think LeBron is better than Kobe. Let’s look at the facts! LeBron is clearly a beast on the basketball court with no question. When you look at this 30 year old kid (just joking) your in awe of what he’s been able to do in such a short stem, on top of coming out of high school with all the hype surrounding him. People say Kobe didn’t have the NBA body which he didn’t, but Kobe came in the league in 1996 as a guard out of high school when that was un-heard of. Kobe was the first test for guards coming out of high school into the NBA. If LeBron would have came out of high school in the late 90’s he would have started either. It’s because of the success of Kobe and T-Mac that LeBron received attention.
Kobe came into a situation where the Lakers were stacked and he averaged 7pts the 1st year 15 the 2nd year and 20 the 3rd year. This tells me that if Kobe would have started his first year he could have averaged 15-20pts a game easily. He was killing pro players in workout at 17 with the skinny body and all. Jerry West said it was a joke the way he blow by NBA grown men at 17 in WORKOUTS. So all that what LeBron is doing is great, you can’t take anything away from the man. On the other hand Kobe has made the playoffs 90% of his pro career and he’s been in the league for 10 years with 3 NBA titles under his belt. He made 1st 2nd and 3rd team defensive teams along with 1st team all NBA on top of being the most clutch player in the league for the last 4-5 years. Bron hasn’t even made the playoffs as we speak. He basically living up to the hype in the regular season, but has tapered down the stretch when making a post season run with a center on his team.
Look Wade and Bron are very talented young men who I feel have a lot ahead of them, but to say there better than Kobe is nonsense at this point. Also Kobe does pass the ball. You don’t win 3 NBA titles and not be a fascinator to your team. Kobe has lead the Lakers in assist the last 6-7 years of his career. If you look at his last 6years with Shaq he has avg 5.4 assist a game. Brons average since he’s been in the league is 6 assist. Big deal! LeBron like to pass the ball 1.3 times more than Kobe woooooooo.
Bottom line Kobe can play the level of Bron and D-Wade, but they have not reached is level yet if they ever will.
E-Nite
Posted by: E-NITE | January 18, 2006 at 09:08 AM
AK -
Have the past few Cav games, including the Cav's loss to the Lakers, changed your opinion?
Particularly in light of Lebrons failures at the very end of games.
The one aspect of Kobe's game that Lebron can't touch, is the fierce will to win.
Ultimately, all sports competition is about winning and Kobe has the will and ability to make the shots at the very end of games that mean the difference between winning and losing.
Similarly, the difference between Shaq and Kobe, in their respective value to their teams, is the difference between being able to close out the game at the end and make the difference between winning and losing.
Shaq does not and never has had the ability to WIN a game. His "greatness" derives from the huge size difference between him and everybody else in the league. He makes any team he is on better, but he will never be the "difference" in winning Championships like Kobe is and has been.
Lebron has also not shown that he has the killer instinct and ability to hit the end game shots.
For that reason, I would not make the trade.
Incidently, I love this blog. I get very few chances to post ( I should be working even now...), but you do a great job of moderating this blog.
Posted by: Dave Rosenzweig | January 19, 2006 at 05:27 PM
Hey Dave,
First of all, thanks for the nice words. BK and I are glad you're enjoying the blog. It's been a lot of fun on our end, too.
To answer your question... no, I wouldn't change my mind. As I pointed out when I wrote the post, Kobe's a stud. Never denied it. And he's absolutely the clutchest player in the NBA, hands down, end of debate. That being said, I'd still be tempted to add LeBron, six years younger than Kobe, on a team that likely won't win a championship for a few years, anyway. It's not like this kid ain't gonna get any better. Remember, Kobe '98 ain't Kobe '06, either.
Which brings me to another point. A lot of readers like to use these games LeBron came up short in as an ironclad example of why LeBron never will be clutch. In doing that, they conveniently forget those airballs Kobe chucked during the playoffs against Utah right around when he was LeBron's age. About as unclutch as it gets. A lot of people claimed afterwards that the kid was no MJ, he was all hype, he didn't have ice water in the veins, etc. And they were wrong. Thus, I'd be careful before making those assumptions about LeBron.
Look, if you're talking purely this season, and only this season, I'd want Kobe. He's a better overall player than LeBron. But if you're looking at things long-term, as I was in the original post, I think you go LeBron out of pure practicality. That's just my take.
Thanks for the comment, Dave.
AK
Posted by: Andrew Kamenetzky | January 19, 2006 at 09:26 PM
Kobe and LeBron playing together makes sense.
But I will not trade Kobe for LeBron while Kobe is healthy and LeBron still has to prove how tough he is in the Playoffs or the Finals.
The age difference is trumped by Playoff and Finals experience and by the fact that young Kobe is still 13 years away from Jordan's retirement age.
LeBron is playing his third year in the league at age 21 and has no playoff experience to this date.
Kobe came into the league at age 17 and by age 21, already had four years of playoff experience. By age 22, he has developed fearlessness over pressure in the finals. By age 24, he already had three championship rings. And even though Shaq was a teammate, Kobe was a dependable go-to guy down the stretch.
Michael Jordan had six rings by age 35 and retired from basketball at age 40.
At 27 years old, Kobe will catch MJ's pace if he can win three more rings within the next eight years.
LeBron has to win three rings in the next three years to catch up with Kobe's pace in Finals stature and experience.
Kobe, still at such a young age, already has a veteran experience of 10 years in the league, nine years of which included playoffs, and four years of which included finals.
LeBron will be 30 years old (even though he is six years younger than Kobe) by the time he attains the equivalent playoff experience of a 27-year-old Kobe, assuming that LeBron's team makes it to the playoffs this season and every season thereafter for the next 10 years.
Kobe's testament of his performance has never relied on any hype, because he was a target of media bashing since day one.
He especially loves challenge and competition and thrives in the finals, in last second shots, in pressure situations.
LeBron came to the league when he was 18 years old and was immediately anointed and glorified by the press.
LeBron, so far, is living up to the hype, but the hype is too much that it is still hard to totally distinguish some of it from reality.
Why would I trade a proven fearless healthy young warrior for another much younger but not yet totally proven player?
There are only three reasons worthy of argument: youth, height and public relations.
Youth is not always an advantage, just look at Kwame or Eddy Curry compared to Shaq. Besides, even though LeBron is younger by six years, you are only gaining three years worth of youth because he is already behind by three years in developing toughness and playoff experience compared to Kobe.
Height is also not a big factor: Kobe is 6'6 and LeBron is 6'8. In the same token, Jordan is 6'6 and Magic is 6'9.
Public relations is a minor issue, just look at teams coveting even Ron Artest. Kobe may be hated by Laker-haters, but is quietly respected overall.
There is a saying that the grass always looks greener on the other side. Just imagine Kobe in another team's uniform, a one-man wrecking crew. Wouldn't you want to have him on your team instead?
Most importantly, after Kobe was given a big 7-year contract, he performs even greater and to the fullest, since his goals are to win and be recognized.
Most other big-name players in the NBA had declining performances and increased injuries as soon as they got the big prize. LeBron may not be in this category, but that is just one more thing already proven with Kobe, but not yet with James.
Let me use poker hands to further illustrate my point.
With Kobe, you are already holding a straight flush, a very strong hand only beaten by a Royal Flush.
You are seeing four of your opponent's cards and they are A,K,Q,J of spades.
If your opponent's last card is a 10 of spade, that will be a Royal Flush higher than yours. But if it is not a 10 or if it is not a spade, that hand would have no value.
Your opponent offers to exchange hands with you, would you accept it?
Of course not, and only time will tell if you made the right choice, after the last card is revealed.
Win or lose, however, your decision to keep your original hand is the smartest decision, since the last card is still unknown and your hand is already very high, almost unbeatable.
Posted by: John P. | January 25, 2006 at 02:30 AM
Kobe is becoming something weve never seen right now. Maybe trade him for Lebron, but nobody else.
For all u who consider d-wayde as kobe/lebron/duncan calibur...lol ya right. Not even close.
Kobe has the PASSION. Nobody else has this strength, nobody.
Posted by: Cable | January 28, 2006 at 03:39 AM
Lebron - in a heartbeat, but thats not going to happen.
Tim Duncan - what? Duncan? You would trade kobe for Duncan? that is just dumb, take away Manu(I like to call him flipper for all the flopping he does, hes taken the place of Vlade as the NBA's flop king - no pun intended) and TP and Duncan ceases to be the great player Walton (Bill) and all the other dittoheads think he is.
K.G. - probably, i think KG is a better leader. Kobe is more proficient on the offensive end but KG has more of an all around game. Plus i want Minnesota to trade him so he gets a chance at a ring.
D. Wade - nah, he'll be a great player but probably not as great as Kobe.
Amare - I'll be honest, I'm a suns fan, so i am probably biased here. This trade would NEVER happen. nor should it. There aren't many dominate big men in the leauge so the Suns would be loathe to trade him. Plus, the kids a freak! he plays like hes running downhill he is the fastest most agile 4 in the leauge and i have yet to see anyone guard him well. If I were a Laker GM i would make this trade; Kobe for Amare that is, But if i were a Suns GM there is no way i would.
Posted by: SpOoNyTheSunsFan | March 03, 2006 at 01:51 PM