Andrew Kamenetzky:  Is it difficult for you to be scrutinized on such a close level?

Kupchak: You know something?  I don't really feel it, to be honest with you.  My understanding is because of the media, the multi-media today, there's a lot going on with the internet and talk radio. I think if you're savvy enough to understand the business you know what drives those markets.  It's not so much in who's right and who's wrong, it's "let's stir up some controversy and get some ratings.  Get people to call in, get some emotions going."  So I don't listen to it.  Jerry West, like 15 years ago I was listening to talk radio on my way home, when it was just starting and I came back in and I told Jerry they said something about him and a decision that he made, and he said, "Listen Mitch, let me tell you something right now.  Don't ever listen to those people.  I don't do it, and you shouldn't do it." 

So I don't listen to it.  I don't go on the internet, I don't look into the chat rooms, I don't listen to talk radio.  I understand that machine and why it's there.  I have the trust of our owner, and I work very closely with him, and Phil Jackson, and Jim Buss.  I've got great confidence in our scouts.  We're very comfortable with where we are, although we understand the controversy we had to endure to get here, and how painful that is to the people that call in to talk radio, or that are Laker fans. 

AK:  Moving on to that controversy.... Looking back on the Shaq trade, even while standing by the transaction, is there anything in the execution that if you had a second chance you would have done differently?  Something where there could have been less tension on your end, or Shaq's end?  Something that could have made it easier?  Or was it a situation that just couldn't have gone any differently?

Kupchak:  Probably couldn't have been any different looking back on it.  Nobody really knows what went on behind closed doors.  Some of that has been shared publicly, some of it we'll never share.  It's just what we've decided to do.  On the surface, it is what it is.  It was trading a player who was incredibly dominant to a rival on the east coast, and we felt it was something we had to do for several reasons.  And we knew it would be controversial in nature, and to this day we're very comfortable with the decision.  We wouldn't have done it any differently. 

AK:  Did you feel that you were in a difficult position, with Dr. Buss out of town, Shaq unhappy and waiting for Kobe, and talk that Kobe wasn't going to make up his mind until he knew what Shaq was doing.  Did it feel like you were in a position of disadvantage in terms of where you could move Shaq?

Kupchak:  Well, first of all, Dr. Buss was in Europe, but we spoke every day.  So I was never out of touch with him, and he was very much in the loop on all the decisions.  I think he unfairly caught some criticism for being out of the country.  He does it every year, and we talk every day.  So it was really no different for me.  The eight or nine hour time difference was such that we had certain times we spoke every day.  So that really was unfair to him. 

That's my job.  Somebody has to sit in this seat and be the GM, to coordinate a trade and to make a trade.  When you win a championship- I've ridden on a couple parades, so if you're going to ride on the parades, when things don't go well you have to be able to take the criticism as well. So there's the good part of it, and then there's the hot seat.  And that's the position I had at that time.  Somebody had to do it, and that's what the general manager does.   We had great expectations in Los Angeles with a couple really good seasons, three in fact, so expectations were really high.  But other than that, there's one person like me for every franchise, and they all have to go through the same thing.  I could mention a bunch of teams that have a GM that had to do the same thing.

BK:  How hard was it to move him, in terms of available options?

Kupchak: You would think that there would be 29 teams lining up, and that couldn't be any further from the truth.  There's a lot to consider when you're trading for a player like Shaquille.  Because of his salary, there were only a couple teams that could afford him, or would take him on even though they couldn't afford him.  You might think that there were 29 teams, but the reality is that there were not.  And that's just because of the financial considerations of taking on a player like that.  He had an existing contract where the numbers were just huge because of the Grandfather Clause in the (collective bargaining) agreement, and then of course he wanted a long term extension.  And the ramifications financially for a franchise in a small market or a mid-size market, unless the owner really just wants to lose money, they can't make the deal.  So there were limitations, even beyond that, many of which I'm not going to talk about. 

There were a lot of moving pieces in that deal.  We had let a coach go, Kobe was a free agent, Shaquille indicated that if he didn't get his extension in February that he was going to want to be traded in the summer, so we knew that was going to happen.  So there was a lot going on in a short period of time, and I think we managed to do the best we could. 

BK:  Getting into the architecture of the team now, once you knew Shaq would be moved, was the decision to look forward to the future, or '07-'08, and start clearing space and start from scratch- was that made before Shaq was traded or did it come afterwards? 

Kupchak:  I think you're jumping the gun a little bit.  When we made the decision to trade Shaquille- you use broad strokes with a brush when you're painting that picture.  Because in this business, you don't know how things are going to play out.  You really don't.   So the broad strokes in our mind painted the picture where we can bring Kobe back at a young age, at 25 or 26 years old, bring in several other young players- Lamar, Caron Butler, Chris Mihm- and not break this thing down to where you're winning eight to twelve games a year.   And with the right mix of young players and a guy like Vlade Divac, maybe we can be in the playoff hunt and still have a very young team.  So our broad stroke picture was to make the trade, not to break it down to ground zero, but to break it down to a point where we wouldn't have to wait eight to ten years to get competitive.  We didn't want to do that, because we feel that the fans don't need to go through that, we didn't feel we'd have to go through that, and then Kobe deserves more than that.  He doesn't want to play for eight more years and then try to get to the playoffs.  We felt that we had to put him in a position where maybe he waits a year or two, and we're there again.  So that was the broad picture that we painted. 

Now of course, when you look at it closer, Vlade Divac got hurt before the season even started, Rudy Tomjanovich stepped down in mid-season, Lamar had shoulder surgery, and all these things kind of factored into the picture, and the result is that we just had a terrible year.  The good part is that we got a good draft pick, but we had a terrible year.  That wasn't the plan last year.  The plan was, with those guys at full health, we thought we could be competitive for a playoff spot.   

AK: And truthfully, you started out the season competitively. 

Kupchak:  Yeah, we did.  We did.  We had a better record than we do right now (11-10 before last Wednesday's win in Memphis).  And we knew Vlade would probably retire in a year, but we felt Lamar would be a year older and Chris Mihm would be a year older and we would be a better club.  And we'd have- which led us into this whole discussion- we'd have some financial flexibility. 

If we extended Shaquille, which would have been at the time, three years beyond the two years he had remaining, that would be five more years with him.  And in this business, great players lead to winning seasons, winning games, lead to rewards which are contract extensions where they get increases.  And that's all fine and good until you get to a certain age where you don't want to look around and have your great players at advanced ages locked up for huge amounts of dollars.  That's when it starts to get scary, and that's what we wanted to avoid.  Where we would financially strap our flexibility with the franchise.  And we in fact offered Shaquille a two year extension to make him the highest paid player in the league.  And he wasn't able to accept that deal.  He wanted the third year, and we weren't willing to do the third year.  So that led to the trade. 

So we do have financial flexibility two years down the road.  That's important in a franchise.  Do we think we're going to get a free agent two or three years down the road?  We don't know.  But it's really important to know that you can and that you have that flexibility, and you're not locked in as an organization financially.

BK:  So it's not a question of- there are players out there.  For example, and I'm not sure a Ron Artest is someone the Lakers would be interested in- but periodically top 10, top 15 players become available.  It's not necessarily that the Lakers are waiting until after '06-'07 to pick someone up--

Kupchak: --as a free agent?

BK: As a free agent, through a trade, whatever is available to help the team.

Kupchak:  No, it's not etched in stone.  Like I said, you paint a broad picture with a brush.  You can't plan that way (counting on a specific free agent).  So along the way, you have to be in a position to make adjustments and make changes.  If we had the ability to get a great player, and he was on a six or a seven year deal, we would do it.

AK:  And losing Shaquille's contract makes it possible to take advantage of a surprise guy that becomes available?   Someone looking to leave his team.

Kupchak:  We would have been locked in financially for the next five years.  And had we won five championships in a row, maybe you say, "hey, listen, you know (let's do it.)"  But we won three and then we lost two.  And there was no indication that we were going to win another one.  Yeah, we probably would have won fifty games.  Fifty four games, whatever.  But we could have continued on that route and not won again.  So that was really the basis for our decision.

AK:  Fair or unfair, Kobe has a reputation as a player who is difficult to play with.  Do you get concerned about the ability to attract free agents with that reputation, as far as getting someone to play with him?

Kupchak:  Not really.  I mean, I don't know if that's true or not.  We've never had a problem attracting free agents.  Even this summer, there were a couple of guys that really wanted to be here, and we just weren't willing to extend the financial commitment that they wanted.  We make trades, you draft players, and by and large, people and players want to play in Los Angeles.  And if you are a player and you know Kobe or you watch him play, he's just about one thing.  And maybe it is frightening that the guy plays that hard and is that driven, but if that scares you away than we don't want you anyway.  We want guys that will embrace that.  Because he's about one thing, Kobe.  He gets criticized, and sometimes it's fair and sometimes it's not fair, but he's all about commitment and effort and competing.  He's all about that.  Now if that scares you away as a free agent, than this is not the place for you. 

BK:  The big move over the summer was trading Caron and bringing in Kwame.  Can you talk about the thought process behind it, basically taking a known quantity and exchanging it for someone with unproven upside?

Kupchak:  You know, you're not going to get a big guy of equal ability.  You're just not.  Caron has proven that he can average 15, 16, 17 points in this league as a small forward.  You're never going to be able to trade a small forward for a seven footer that gets 16, 17 points in this league.  As a general manager no GM would do that.  So it's not like you could trade Caron for a big man that averages 17 and 11.  Those guys are all stars, and there's hardly any of them out there.

AK:  And you specifically wanted a big?

Kupchak:  We felt we needed another big player.  Our owner is not risk averse.  Clearly, this is a roll of the dice, but at 23 years old and 6'11" and a half, the #1 pick in the draft, with his physical abilities, it was a risk that we felt we had to take.  And our owner is not risk averse.  He encourages us to do these things.  With the drafting of Andrew Bynum, a lot of GM's would say, "Listen, I'm not going to do that," but he loves to gamble.  And he understands that's the only way you're going to hit it big, is if you do gamble.  So we rolled the dice with Caron to get Kwame.  I think the jury's still out because it's just too soon to tell, and I don't think we're going to tell for a year or two.  I think maybe two years from now you'll look back on it and say, "Hey, that was a pretty great deal," or it was a great deal, or it wasn't a great deal.  But it's way too early to tell right now. 

AK:  Phil Jackson is not known as a coach that has cultivated young talent.  He's basically said he prefers dealing with veterans.  Was there any concern about him being put in a position to cultivate Kwame, Bynum, and all the other young players at the same time?

Kupchak:  When we hired Phil back, there were several meetings, and it was made clear to him what we were trying to do.  That we're not about going out there and getting one and two year, older veteran players to try and win today.  We're trying to set this thing up where we can win for the next ten to twelve years.  And he's very much on board.  Very much on board, with both the Bynum decision and the Kwame Brown decision. 

AK:  How risky did the Bynum pick feel at the time?

Kupchak:  Well, it's still a risky pick, although we feel a lot better about it now than we did in June, because we've seen him play against professional players and we think he has a bright future.  But that was another big roll of the dice.  And I'll never forget when we drafted Vlade Divac, in the draft room with Jerry and the thought process that he went through, which was basically the same thing that we did.  That you just don't get a chance to get a young player at that size and that ability very often.  And he was in fact advised not to draft Vlade by a lot of our personnel people.  And then he just looked at them and said, "Listen, he's just too good to pass up on, we've got to do it."  And he did and (Vlade) turned out to be a heck of a player. 

I don't know if Andrew is going to be that good or better, or not as good.  But those are the things that you have to in order to take chance and hope you get a player.  If Andrew goes to Connecticut and plays for a year or two there, he's going to be a top three or four pick.  Maybe even higher than that.  If we're in the middle of the pack we'll never get him.  We'll just never get him.  If we're winning 35-40 games, we'll end up drafting thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, and you just won't get a guy like that at that position.  They're just not there. 

AK:  It's rare a true center comes around.

Kupchak:  And he's a true center, seventeen and a half years old, he's grown three quarters of an inch.  He's got a wing span that's just (incredible).  And great hands, and a bright kid.  So those are all really positive factors that kind of reduced that risk in our mind.  Junior and senior year in high school.  And you work a guy out a couple times, you don't know.  It's really, for GM's to be out there looking at seventeen and eighteen year old kids, it's really a tough thing to do.  So I'm glad the NBA put that rule in about nineteen years old.  It gives us another year to watch these guys beyond high school. 

BK:  It's interesting that the year you draft Andrew you also pick up a guy who is for a lot of people the poster child for the risks of taking a high school player so high in Kwame, and bring them into the program at the same time.

Kupchak:  I see what you're saying.  Well, yeah.  Let me tell you something.  If Kwame was averaging 17 and 10, he wouldn't have been available for Caron Butler.  There's a reason why he was available.  And the reason is that in the three and a half or four years that it took him to get to last year, he wasn't where everybody thought he'd be.

BK:  So it's a question of if he becomes the player you hope he can be, you can sign him at the point when you have that flexibility, and now you've got your power forward, and you have your center.

Kupchak:  That's right.  If Andrew develops in the next year or two, then maybe we like our team.  And Kobe's twenty-eight or twenty-nine at that point, and then maybe we can start another run.

AK:  Have you been surprised by Bynum?  At the beginning of the year there was talk he'd be in the NBDL, but he's actually been able to contribute and make his presence felt.

Kupchak:  Yeah, I've never penciled him in as a roster player, or even a player that played minutes for us.  Number one, I didn't want to put that kind of pressure on the kid, and number two, it's not realistic when you have a seventeen and a half year old kid to think he's going to play.  His summer progress was good, and he was learning to play with bigger players, he was learning the triangle offense.  He had a good camp- he kind of injured his stomach which set him back about three weeks- and he's beginning to play above the rim.  And some of that is due to injury to Kwame, that he got some minutes, but the bottom line is that I think he's got our coach's confidence in certain situations where he'll play him.  So I'm surprised.  And I think that it will just speed his progress.  Maybe it takes two to three years versus four to five years for him to get to where he needs to get to.  But that's a good thing, and it's unexpected. 

BK:  He seems to have fantastic instincts. 

Kupchak: He does.  He's got great hands, he goes to the spot offensively, he catches the ball, he's deliberate, he looks to pass, he looks for cutters, he runs the floor.  He doesn't look like a high school, raw boned kid out there, like there are in the league- there's a couple of them.  And I think it helps that he's a true center, too.  So he's got a certain confidence about him, but he still has to realize how big the players are in this league, and how much above the rim he has to play, but he's getting there.  And I think if our coach will play him this year, which he indicates he will, than he'll get there quicker. 

(photo by Lori Shepler/LAT)